Mini Normal 2171 | Boardgames | Game Over

[Flavor Leaf]

Also taylor claimed tracker dawg

...bob isn't the town protective.

: )

Awesome. Raises Bob scum equity. Who’d you protect?

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn’t see the tracker claim, and thought BM and TS were both VT claims.

I just found the gated tracker claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL: Vig
Johnny: Informed Miller
Taylor: Tracker
BM: VT
Pooky: VT
Gamma: VT
Bob:
Mini:
Osuka:
Creature:
Ydrasse: Protective

[Flavor Leaf]

Explain why it isn’t a good time for mass claim?

I literally doesn’t matter if scum know who’s what right now, it literally just pigeonholes them.

Scum take advantage of the knowledge gap.

They already know who they shot at and failed, they know something stopped them, and scum usually can PR hunt way easier than town because they know who their partners are, and they know who they shot at.

After a scum flip, and narrowing down, this is exactly when it is beneficial to mass claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

i'm gonna save who i protected until we get through all the claims.

Keep in mind, scum already know who you protected likely.

[Flavor Leaf]

I will be shooting in the people who have not claimed roles.

why dont i believe anything you say?

Because I have the Don Corleone banner under my name and am the best at getting out of sticky situations as scum, so I get the paranoia.

[Flavor Leaf]

Creature, Mini, and Osuka, you 3 are up.

[Flavor Leaf]

Explain why it isn’t a good time for mass claim?

I literally doesn’t matter if scum know who’s what right now, it literally just pigeonholes them.

Scum take advantage of the knowledge gap.

They already know who they shot at and failed, they know something stopped them, and scum usually can PR hunt way easier than town because they know who their partners are, and they know who they shot at.

After a scum flip, and narrowing down, this is exactly when it is beneficial to mass claim.

dude... you're wrong, but i literally don't care enough to explain to you why

Nah, you just got the old timey mindset.

[Flavor Leaf]

i played a game recently with a really good vig. he just kept quiet and killed scum until we won.

I don’t care much for night play. I’m a day player.

And I guarantee you, that wouldn’t have happened this game.

Mafia doctor means I now have to hit the correct Mafia member or nothing happens.

I’d rather get a correct fade today, and the end the game before Day 3.

Like why not try it.thats basically what is happening here, except i don’t have to keep quiet.

I’ll show my face directly to scum and have them still not be able to do anything about it.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I have a proven track record of extreme success as a Vig as well, which is benefited by me shooting Golden when I replaced in the same night.

[Flavor Leaf]

You just are annoyed with me on a playstyle level, and you can’t uncloud your judgement, whether it’s of your own volition, i care not.

[Flavor Leaf]

I will be shooting in the people who have not claimed roles.

why dont i believe anything you say?

In addition to this, scum who hear this, become instantly more open to claiming.

Right now, i think at least 1 of the remaining scum is in the unclaimed section.

The second scum is probably in the VT claims, or hasn’t claimed yet.

[Flavor Leaf]

lol dude i dont care about your ego stuff. i just tell it like it is. massclaim was a dumb idea for town. you probably shouldnt even be shooting tonight given the odds of hitting scum compared to town are so low. im sure you will though to make yourself feel powerful.

Eh, we’ll see. But this shows your out of touchness.

I usually holster N1 Vig shots.

[Flavor Leaf]

So Johnny or Ydrasse, which is scum for you, BM?

[Flavor Leaf]

lol dude i dont care about your ego stuff. i just tell it like it is. massclaim was a dumb idea for town. you probably shouldnt even be shooting tonight given the odds of hitting scum compared to town are so low. im sure you will though to make yourself feel powerful.

Eh, we’ll see. But this shows your out of touchness.

I usually holster N1 Vig shots.

nah dude, you're just misguided. but it's ok.

Tell that to my numerous amounts of solves and victorious town performances. :shrug:

Guess you just can’t comprehend what you can’t understand even if there are facts to prove it.

[Flavor Leaf]

So Johnny or Ydrasse, which is scum for you, BM?

johnny, unless Ydrasse claims Mafia Doctor lol

Fair, but it does nothing for the game for me to mention this prior to the end of mass claim, which we just need 3 more to do so.

[Flavor Leaf]

As the Doctor of Scumonomics, I’ve learned there’s a power to holding specific card to your chest in order to get to a point in the game to survive until a solve is ready, so because I know my cunning level is maxed out, there are just things I’m able to push as own that other Can’t, and this goes both ways.

I can’t be a vigilante with a confirmed kill on scum without people wondering if I shot my own teammate. Happens way more often than you’d think.

But like, for that to have happened here, you’d have to believe I replaced in night 1, and convinced Golden, who had been here, that it’s a good idea for us to kill him to give me town cred.

I’m an extreme team player when it comes to being scum unless I see detriment in a partner.

Golden is never a detriment.

[Flavor Leaf]

As the Doctor of Scumonomics, I’ve learned there’s a power to holding specific card to your chest in order to get to a point in the game to survive until a solve is ready, so because I know my cunning level is maxed out, there are just things I’m able to push as own that other Can’t, and this goes both ways.

I can’t be a vigilante with a confirmed kill on scum without people wondering if I shot my own teammate. Happens way more often than you’d think.

But like, for that to have happened here, you’d have to believe I replaced in night 1, and convinced Golden, who had been here, that it’s a good idea for us to kill him to give me town cred.

I’m an extreme team player when it comes to being scum unless I see detriment in a partner.

Golden is never a detriment.

it would be a bad play for you, you'd never survive LyLo here.

Exactly! Now we’re on the same page.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t get to 3p lylo often as scum. I try to end games as early as possible, which I usually have decent success with. The games I have won in 3p lylo, were won for the conjunction of strategically losing scum members for damage control so I’d be untouchable in lylo, which happens.

You can see far in advance who would be voted in specific scenarios.

I can probably count the amount of times on one hand I’ve been in 3p lylo.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I disagree that I am wrong.

My reads and reevaluation in regards to both you and Taylor also show that I can move on when it’s time too. I don’t ever assume I’m correct in the way too deep solves, but I will uncover truths and get closer to a solve, there’s no doubt about that.

You can’t even explain why it’s wrong, you just have it so ingrained with “the right way” that it’s essentially brainwashed you into thinking it’s the only way, but that couldn’t be further from the case.

You aren’t the first to say stuff like this, you won’t be the last. They all are proven wrong.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I was gone for a day and a half, nearly 2, and as soon as I got back, it spiked up again, and we got some MORE CLAIMS YOOOOO!!!

Nah, I actually liked what I read in those 2 days, but it was slower, you right

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, there was like 20 something pages Day 1 on an obv town slot, so I really don’t understand your “things were going great before you showed up!”

But without me being here, Golden would still be across the room, stringing the game along to scum’s liking.

[Flavor Leaf]

You just gotta move past whatever hold up you got, to be honest, and start worrying more about the game than my playstyle.

[Flavor Leaf]

Because I believe everyone is able to see why my reads are where they are, and at least understand from my perspective why I have each of the reads I do.

I don’t believe the same can be said from your slot, so stop worrying about my playstyle being incomprehensible for you, and start finding scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL: Vig
Johnny: Informed Miller
Taylor: Tracker
BM: VT
Pooky: VT
Gamma: VT
Bob:
Mini:
Osuka:
Creature:
Ydrasse: Protective

[Flavor Leaf]

Not feeling as excited I thought I would be with this massclaim.

It’s already almost done.

Bob isn’t claiming, so just you, Osuka, and Mini.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe this is a game scum is just staying down?

I believe that’s the effect of having a scum partner night killed, and then not having their kill go through.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bob isn’t claiming

Did he give up as scum?

He “thinks” it’s super hurtful to town, but he got popcorned to real early, so I feel there’s just the likelihood he wanted to try to make it not go through so he wouldn’t get countered.


Also, note how he mentioned early Day 2 that he was gonna push GoldenParadox today, on top of calling Golden “obv scum” when I brought up shooting him.

I think Bob just saw the Scummieness in his partner moreso than most, so I’m still leaning ScumBob.

I think Taylor has been pretty townie, and the tracker claim the way she did also seemed genuine as town, and Johnny’s talk about being Miller and claiming out of nowhere like they did after I did, is something I see as townie.

Ydrasse claimed to be protective, so unless another person claims it, they are confirmed town, alongside their target, who if Ydrasse is town, scum know who that target is.

Bob is scum, I think there’s potential for Gamma, but I’m always paranoid of Gamma when I’m town until I start soul reading him.

Creature could be scum, but i kinda like how you’re handling this, and I generally want to read you as town, and when you’re scum, I usually hard town read you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe this is a game scum is just staying down?

I believe that’s the effect of having a scum partner night killed, and then not having their kill go through.

Perhaps, but it's also because town is kinda imploding.

FL: Vig
Johnny: Informed Miller
Taylor: Tracker
BM: VT
Pooky: VT
Gamma: VT
Bob:
Mini:
Osuka:
Creature: VT
Ydrasse: Protective


I just think BM is town imploding, and that’s it really.

[Flavor Leaf]

Johnny, Bob, Gamma likely have scum somewhere in them based on the Taylor wagon, which is a reason I don’t believe Gamma and Bob to be on the same team.

I can see Gamma being town or scum for trying to move the wagon from Taylor to BM.

But yeah, I think it’s Bob, and then one of Creature, Osuka, Mini.

Probably Osuka/Bob, but then they’d have to be distancing.

Osuka on Bob while I’ also pushing them and Bob bringing up they are thinking of pushing Osuka might give Bob some town credibility, though and anti partner, but it’s not impossible for them to be S/S.

I no longer think that is the pairing, but I’m gonna keep it there so you see my thought process, and the general way my mind is running right now.

Mini has scum points for being in that Gamma, BM, Mini slot, and I guess Pooky and Osuka can be put into that, but I really want Pooky to be town because I’m not feeling suspicious of them at all.

So I think one in Gamma, Mini, Osuka
One in Bob or Creature for being off the wagon.

And that’s where I’m at right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m back to ScumBob again, if that wasn’t clear.

Bob and Mini.

Gamma/Creature is my not quite tinfoil, but my backup backup to be aware of, if that makes sense. If Bob flipped town, I wouldn’t immediately think Creature is scum.

I’m thinking out loud right now, sorry for the splurges.

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

if we have rb type role they prob should claim. with us just lynching who they targeted.

i doubt we have a doc. maybe jailkeeper or babysitter. others rolestopper and roleblocker. Reason i doubt we have doc is simply because i feel setup designers would find scum and town having a doc a little dull

out of those only a town roleblock should claim. Unless they are jailkeeper and think the player they jailed was unlikely to be nk by scum.

Roleblocker is more directly dangerous to the scum team, so this could be clever role fishing. Which is interesting that Bob is anti mass claim then.

I almost feel like it’s Bob pushing what he thinks he should be pushing as town, similar to how BM is super anti the mass claim, I feel Bob’s using that mindset as a crutch as scum.

Spoiler:

weak read but im inclined to think that yds was not same alignment as golden

just based on who he was givign reads on. gut says he didnt mention a read on his partner

Depending on Ydrasse’s role, I could see this being a TMI post by Bob, which might be why he’s so against mass claim here, and trying to muddy the waters.


Also, I know Bob’s role now, btw.

[Flavor Leaf]

Doing that ISO dive, I figured out Bob’s role, and I think it’s a good claim, but possibly a strong fake claim by scum, and he needed to wait for other people to claim prior to him claiming.

[Flavor Leaf]

He’s a Gunsmith of sorts.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL: Vig
Johnny: Informed Miller
Taylor: Tracker
BM: VT
Pooky: VT
Gamma: VT
Bob: Gunsmith
Mini:
Osuka:
Creature: VT
Ydrasse: Protective

Osuka and Mini.

[Flavor Leaf]

Already fixed.

I hadn’t read the pages I missed until after, and thought I saw a VT-VT thing with BM/TS, geez people

[Flavor Leaf]

Scum just aren’t going to be able to fake claim save their skin later. We just reached late mid game way faster than most because of the blocked kill/scum death.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Taylor - After Mini and Osuka claim, do you wanna claim whatever action you took and result?

[Flavor Leaf]

FL: Vig
Johnny: Informed Miller
Taylor: Tracker
BM: VT
Pooky: VT
Gamma: VT
Bob: Gunsmith
Mini: Cop
Osuka: VT
Creature: VT
Ydrasse: Protective

Golden: Roleblocker
Shelly: VT

Yeah, one VT is scum with a PR, and it’s either Bob or Mini.

Keep in mind, Bob didn’t confirm he was a gunsmith, and scumHim I don’t think ever makes that.

@Johnny - Would you like to do the honors of saying what your informed information is?

[Flavor Leaf]

i do not have a result from night 1.

But did you use an action?

This matters a bit, because if you got a “did not see anything” then that person is confirmed to not have made the scum kill.

The little stuff.

[Flavor Leaf]

Mini’s claim is actually a really strong scum fake claim if they are scum because Golden flipped Even-Night, a Miller was claimed, and a Cop shows up as “Has a Gun” to a gunsmith, so it could bypass getting guiltied, similar to when I claimed Miller prior to you Copping me that one time Creature, and I got my way out of that situation ahead of time

[Flavor Leaf]

FL: Vig
Johnny: Informed Miller
Taylor: Tracker
BM: VT
Pooky: VT
Gamma: VT
Bob: Gunsmith
Mini: Cop
Osuka: VT
Creature: VT
Ydrasse: Protective

Golden: Roleblocker
Shelly: VT

Vig
Miller
Tracker
Protective
Cop or Gunsmith
5x VT

Even Night Roleblocker
Doctor
Goon

Honestly, I think Gunsmith is town, Cop is scum here, but I’ll take some more time before committing to anything really.

Vig/Miller are guilty to Gunsmith/Cop, and I think the Miller can very well make sense as a Red Herring in this setup, especially because a way to figure that out is a Vigilante shooting a Miller, if they claimed Day 1, which is generally common Miller practice.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, Bob is town Gunsmith likely because of the open knowledge of there being a Doctor on the scum team, which means it’s open knowledge for a Doctor to be treated like a Godfather with Gunsmith, meaning the Cop claim is probably fake.

And with no other options for block kill, Ydrasse is likely scum.

Mini claiming Cop also dissuades a Vig not to shoot them.

[Flavor Leaf]

This actually kinda sucks because them claiming Even Night Cop is a really solid claim and it completely dissuades from hurting them in any shape of the way, but with only Osuka left to claim, it’s actually a really strong scum fake claim in the situation.

[Flavor Leaf]

Damn, I think it’s Mini and Creature.

[Flavor Leaf]

Osuka could be in the Creature slot, but I think Arachnid saw the no kill and the partner death, then lurked out of the game and got replaced from inactivity.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Taylor - If you’re even night, you probably are a counterclaim to the even night cop.

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE: Bob

[Flavor Leaf]

Mini’s claim is actually a really strong scum fake claim if they are scum because Golden flipped Even-Night, a Miller was claimed, and a Cop shows up as “Has a Gun” to a gunsmith, so it could bypass getting guiltied, similar to when I claimed Miller prior to you Copping me that one time Creature, and I got my way out of that situation ahead of time

It's not as much as a strong claim as Mini can't claim they got roleblocked anymore and so they are forced to clear someone and if they live too long they will eat a lynch later on anyway.

This is easy to do.

I feel like you came up with the claim for Mini as is, and I think it’s a good claim, I just think it happens to be unfortunate they’re scum here.

You’re right, cut that Miller shooting talk out.

I half expect Johnny to be informed of no cops in this game, so I’m willing to wait for Johnny to really make any further push, cuz i don’t want to vote a cop if i think it’s likely, but idk if it’s even likely herez

[Flavor Leaf]

I could be overlooking Pooky

[Flavor Leaf]

Did everyone claim?

Yep

[Flavor Leaf]

Hey so you prolly don't need to hear this but there's a liar among {bob, mini, FL}.

I'm informed there are five people

with a gun

Awesome. I figured it was as much.

I’m confirmed town after the mass claim because unless you think i came into this game Night 1, and convinced Golden that we should kill him.

So not only do I think Mini is scum, I think scum was probably informed of a Gunsmith in this setup.

Mini or Bob has 1 scum, the other is in the VT.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hey so you prolly don't need to hear this but there's a liar among {bob, mini, FL}.

I'm informed there are five people

with a gun

Odd-Night Doctor though

Odd night doctor still has a gun on even nights.

[Flavor Leaf]

Still doesnt*

[Flavor Leaf]

Wait, where’s the extra gun?

Bob-Gunsmith
Mini-Cop
FL-Vig

Golden-Mafia
-last mafia members

I think that actually confirms that we’re all town?

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t get what you are referring to?

Johnny’s info says 5 guns. The role isn’t gonna change them going from one night having a gun to the next not having one.

Maybe Ydrasse has a gun.

If Ydrasse has a gun, then Bob or Mini is confirmed to have 1 scum.


@Ydrasse - full claim time, what you block?

[Flavor Leaf]

Unless it’s Johnny-Mini pulling a Cop/Miller gambit.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wait, where’s the extra gun?

Bob-Gunsmith
Mini-Cop
FL-Vig

Golden-Mafia
-last mafia members

I think that actually confirms that we’re all town?

3 mafia members + vig + cop + gunsmith = 6 guns

Either one of {vig, cop, gunsmith} is lying or one of the mafia members is a doctor/traitor

Mafia Doctors don’t have guns.

[Flavor Leaf]

So it’s 2 Mafia members + Vig + Cop + Gunsmith = 5.

The 3rd is the Mafia Doctor which is confirmed to be one of the remaining scum alive based on pre setup open knowledge, and doctors specifically don’t have guns

[Flavor Leaf]

Wait, where’s the extra gun?

Bob-Gunsmith
Mini-Cop
FL-Vig

Golden-Mafia
-last mafia members

I think that actually confirms that we’re all town?

3 mafia members + vig + cop + gunsmith = 6 guns

Either one of {vig, cop, gunsmith} is lying or one of the mafia members is a doctor/traitor

Mafia Doctors don’t have guns.

That's exactly what I was arguing.

Then we’re on the same page.

I guess we just need to wait for Ydrasse’s info now.


@Johnny - that’s part of your informed?

[Flavor Leaf]

Scum JOAT with at least Role Cop or a Gunsmith ability alongside their Doctor then probably.

Interesting, maybe this does raise Bob’s scum equity still. Bob I could see setting up a JOAT claim for himself by claiming all the extra stuff.

[Flavor Leaf]

Does this mean Bob and Mini are both town then?

I actually think the scum Mafia is a Mafia Doctor, or else that weird to have added into the setup alongside Johnny’s informed.


I need to just wait for Ydrasse to show up, I guess. And Bob.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL: Vigilante - GUN
Johnny: Informed Miller
Taylor: Tracker
BM: VT
Pooky: VT
Gamma: VT
Bob: Gunsmith - GUN
Mini: Cop - GUN
Osuka: VT
Creature: VT
Ydrasse: Protective

Golden: Roleblocker - GUN
Shelly: VT


We know 1 scum doesn’t have a gun. And we know 1 does, the missing.

With this, it almost means that 2 scum is in the VT’s unless Taylor is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wait, where’s the extra gun?

Bob-Gunsmith
Mini-Cop
FL-Vig

Golden-Mafia
-last mafia members

I think that actually confirms that we’re all town?

3 mafia members + vig + cop + gunsmith = 6 guns

Either one of {vig, cop, gunsmith} is lying or one of the mafia members is a doctor/traitor

well we know a mafia member is a doc. so theres 2 scum guns + 3 town guns. so that does kinda clear the cop and the gunsmith. plus why have a miller with no cop? its honestly the tracker claim that doesnt fit.

Damn, this helped any suspicion I had.

Yeah, I think both scum are just in the VT then.

I think Battle Mage is town.

Pooky
Gamma
Osuka
Creature

2 scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Unless Johnny is scum, then all of this is wack, and it’s just Johnny/Mini.

Ydrasse could be a JOAT with a gun on another ability, which is essentially what we need to wait on, plus their action.

[Flavor Leaf]

“There is comfirmed to be a Mafia Doctor in this set up, who may or may not have some number of modifiers.“

Modifiers doesn’t change the role, it would be a Mafia JOAT with a Doctor ability if that were the case, so I think it’s fair to assume that it’s a Mafia Doctor.

[Flavor Leaf]

im 99% sure johnny is town. if johnny is scum then id have to say i bet youre scum too.

It’s actually impossible for me to be scum here without you thinking I killed Golden as scum partners with him.

So yeah.

I’m confirmed town based on the claims alone.

[Flavor Leaf]

it feels like the game is too easy if you give town an informed that essentially clears 3 people. so lets assume for a moment that ydrasse has a gun. suddenly bob looks very scummy.

Bob already looked incredibly scummy.

Mini had a really convenient claim, which might just be because it works in the setup, and I jumped the gun.

Regardless, if Mini is scum, they are not Doctor.

[Flavor Leaf]

well we know a mafia member is a doc

We?

It’s in the game specific knowledge.

[Flavor Leaf]

it feels like the game is too easy if you give town an informed that essentially clears 3 people. so lets assume for a moment that ydrasse has a gun. suddenly bob looks very scummy.

I don’t think it always would do that, we just happened to hit the exact scenario because we mass claimed after hitting scum and a no kill.

[Flavor Leaf]

We know 1 scum doesn’t have a gun

Are we sure there's a scum doctor or is it just setup speculation?

It’s in the opening post that confirms there to be a Mafia Doctor.

It’s the pre game setup knowledge.

[Flavor Leaf]

Next step is just waiting for Ydrasse, and maybe Bob.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ydrasse is actually confirmed town because nothing else could have prevented scum kill not going through Night 1

[Flavor Leaf]

Could maybe remove Ydrasse as no other role explains the lack of a mafia kill

Right.

I’m tending to believe Taylor’s tracker claim, but fair to put her on the list.

Osuka
Gamma
Pooky
Creature
Battle Mage
Taylor

Includes both scum team members.

Pooky and Battle Mage maybe?

[Flavor Leaf]

Creature discussing here is probably a good sign.

Gamma Emerald giving in to my mass claim plan is probably a good sign.

[Flavor Leaf]

Upsetting if they’re scum, and I had the correct solve coming into the game, and turned around 180 on it. Sucks bad.

I guess I more just want her to be town.

Yeah, Pooky’s looking like scum for me too.

Osuka was pushing Bob with me as well, so that looks likely.

Pooky/Osuka.

[Flavor Leaf]

That means we had 4 town on a townie at the beginning of this day, and I don’t know what I think about that. Pooky and Osuka didn’t show up much, to be fair, but maybe they were just trying to see what would happen.

Osuka, Pooky, Golden were 3 at the beginning of the wagon on Shelly also.

[Flavor Leaf]

VCA is kinda misleading anyway. I still find myself using it sometimes when I clearly have no idea who scum is.

VCA is where I started with the day, and it got me going after Taylor and Battle Mage, which are both in the 6. Might actually mean they are clear.

VCA also would have me going against saying all 3 scum were on Shelly, but at this point, unless Creature scum, I think all 3 scum were on Shelly, which explains how a 20 page Day 1 happened.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m gonna wait for Ydrasse and Bob to come and give their full stuff.

We might be able to cross a name off the list with Ydrasse or find out if one of Bob or Mini were lying.

[Flavor Leaf]

We’re actually essentially done with the mass claim, just waiting for Ydrasse to confirm their target, which scum already are aware of.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bob’s not possible unless Ydrasse also has a gun.

[Flavor Leaf]

Johnny is informed 5 people have guns in this game. 2 scum, then Vig, Cop, and Bob leftover. That’s 5 guns.

It requires Bob, Mini, and Myself all to be town to hit 5.

So if Ydrasse has a gun, 1 of Bob/Mini are confirmed scum. If Ydrasse doesn’t, then Bob/Mini have to be town.

[Flavor Leaf]

doesnt cop vig and 3 mafia all have guns?

Mafia Doctor is confirmed, and they don’t have guns. They act like a godfather to Gunsmiths, which would explain why that’s even public knowledge in the first place

[Flavor Leaf]

soo... ydrasse and johnny scumteam anyone?

Ydrasse can’t be scum because then there’s no reason for the no kill from scum.

Ydrasse is about as conf town as I am.

Johnny/Mini is the tinfoil.

[Flavor Leaf]

am here from life deciding to take me to fisticuffs. mighty tired though.

i'm inclined to believe that johnny's information is real since i protected him.

Awesome.

Johnny slot is confirmed town alongside Ydrasse.

Can you full claim?

We have a gun situation to figure out.

Then Taylor can give the rest of her modifiers or whatever

[Flavor Leaf]

Creature
Osuka
Gamma
Taylor
Battle Mage
Pooky

Have both scum in them confirmed.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Ydrasse - did you target Dongen slot for a reason?

[Flavor Leaf]

i'm odd night + yes

I’m also Odd-Night.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Ydrasse - you’re just town odd night doctor then?

I looked at Dongen’s iso, a lot of their posts were regarding Dongen, and Dongen’s last post they called Ydrasse town.

I imagine scum came into this day phase expecting to push Ydrasse after the hammer on Shelly

[Flavor Leaf]

FL: Vig
Johnny: Informed Miller
Taylor: Tracker
BM: VT
Pooky: VT
Gamma: VT
Bob: Gunsmith
Mini: Cop
Osuka: VT
Creature: VT
Ydrasse: Protective
Golden: Roleblocker
Shelly: VT


VT - Shelly
VT -
VT
VT
VT or Tracker
Odd-Night Vig - Flavor
Odd-Night Doctor - Ydrasse
Even-Night Cop - Mini
Gunsmith - Bob
Informed Miller - Johnny

Even Night Roleblocker - Golden
Odd Night Doctor
Goon

Confirmed to have 4 or 5 VT’s this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Creature
Osuka
Gamma
Taylor
Battle Mage
Pooky

Have both scum in them confirmed.

4 remaining townies are in here.

Does Taylor/Creature make sense? Lol if I was just working on solving the game alongside the scum team.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gunsmith is kinda weak with a confirmed Mafia Doctor, as they can’t get any for sure clears, and claiming wise, it’s easy to counter, but Bob didn’t wanna go first, so.

I say we have both Bob and Mini targeting Taylor tonight, just to clear that through.

Taylor, target 1 of the 5 other slots in the 6 group, and we kill one of those 5, so really, it’ll be 1 in 4.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, just Bob should target Taylor.

Mini targets 1 of the 4 remaining VT’s after we fade one today.

If we hit scum, Taylor can get a clear/guilty with their track shot too if they are town, and Bob can confirm if they lied and are scum with gun.

If Taylor is scum doc, then it’s whatever, Bob clears just mean not scum Doc. If we flip doc, then it’ll be clears.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gunsmith is kinda weak with a confirmed Mafia Doctor, as they can’t get any for sure clears, and claiming wise, it’s easy to counter, but Bob didn’t wanna go first, so.

I say we have both Bob and Mini targeting Taylor tonight, just to clear that through.

Taylor, target 1 of the 5 other slots in the 6 group, and we kill one of those 5, so really, it’ll be 1 in 4.

why both? do you think scum have a godfather too? this is an awful waste i think. why not cop 3 different people, and if we get 3 innocent results then lunch me tomorrow.

Yeah, I figured it out.

We should actually say Taylor target 1 of these 2, and Mini, target 1 of the other 2, that we don’t kill even.

So you 2 don’t target the same person by accident.

Yeah, I think we’re in a solid place. No matter what, we will clear 2 slots, kill one today, we’ll be left with 3 possibilities, and then we do it again, but then I shoot tomorrow as well.

This is essentially an auto win for town here unless something absolutely crazy is happening.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL: Vig
Johnny: Informed Miller
Taylor: Tracker
BM: VT
Pooky: VT
Gamma: VT
Bob: Gunsmith
Mini: Cop
Osuka: VT
Creature: VT
Ydrasse: Protective
Golden: Roleblocker
Shelly: VT


VT - Shelly
VT -
VT
VT
VT or Tracker
Odd-Night Vig - Flavor
Odd-Night Doctor - Ydrasse
Even-Night Cop - Mini
Gunsmith - Bob
Informed Miller - Johnny

Even Night Roleblocker - Golden
Odd Night Doctor
Goon

Confirmed to have 4 or 5 VT’s this game.

I think 5 VTs is more likely, I don't think I've really ever seen a setup where the PRs outnumbered VTs in situation where funky setup shenanigans wasn't the goal. Plus I think the only claim that isn't odd/even at this point is the tracker claim.

A lot of my early games were 4 VT, 2 scum PR, 1 scum vanilla or vanilla esque.

The odd night/even nights split the power, probably the same with scum, which gives them relevant info.

And they’re almost like half PR’s. Miller is named townie here that can get a false guilty.

Scum were definitely trying to set up Ydrasse today because look how Shelly posted.

Unfortunately, Taylor was also pushing this a little already going into the Night, so I think Taylor would have to be in my bottom 3.

[Flavor Leaf]

btw johnny claimed informed, what's his info

5 guns in the game total.

Which is Myself, Bob, Mini, and the 2 scum with guns.

Ydrasse targeted Johnny, and Ydrasse is conf town, and has actual reason to have went there, and i think it makes sense that Dongen/Johnny was shot because Ydrasse was in a good spot to get setup for today.

[Flavor Leaf]

my investigation is also only 50% likely to get a positive result on a guilty person. i have to track the scum who is making the kill because the doc will be inactive. is the way we do this that we collectively decide on a cop target and then i choose at night who to track? also, unless i get a guilty im not 100% clear. even if i get a guilty im not 100% clear. the only 100% clear we have is the cop. actually i think scum probably does have a godfather. thats why we have so many investigatives. the two of them have to work together to get 100% clears, although each of them can potentially get guilties.

Unless we hit scum today, then you are 100%.

[Flavor Leaf]

Osuka
Battle Mage
Creature
Gamma
Pooky

We fade one of these, and split the 4 down the middle to give Taylor and Mini split pools of 2 to target within.

Bob Gunsmiths Taylor to try to catch out Taylor if she’s lying. But even with a no gun result, she could be scum doc.

[Flavor Leaf]

my investigation is also only 50% likely to get a positive result on a guilty person. i have to track the scum who is making the kill because the doc will be inactive. is the way we do this that we collectively decide on a cop target and then i choose at night who to track? also, unless i get a guilty im not 100% clear. even if i get a guilty im not 100% clear. the only 100% clear we have is the cop. actually i think scum probably does have a godfather. thats why we have so many investigatives. the two of them have to work together to get 100% clears, although each of them can potentially get guilties.

Unless we hit scum today, then you are 100%.

true. but one of the other investigations wont give 100% innos.

i guess lets just hit scum today.

but the setup makes way more sense with a godfather.

GF isn’t allowed in Normals.

Gunsmith-Mafia Doctor is how to do GF in normals.

[Flavor Leaf]

Osuka
Battle Mage
Creature
Gamma
Pooky

We fade one of these, and split the 4 down the middle to give Taylor and Mini split pools of 2 to target within.

Bob Gunsmiths Taylor to try to catch out Taylor if she’s lying. But even with a no gun result, she could be scum doc.

i think we lunch one, assign one to the cop, assign one to the gunsmith, and let me choose between the other two. if we dont get any guilties i die tomorrow. its a better use of the investigations.

No, you are getting Gunsmithed.

Like someone has to be on you.

And Mini targets within the pool of 2 because they are the most likely to be killed bar us interfering correctly.

You target in the pool of other 2 because if we hit scum today, if you don’t see anything, then that is a confirmed town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like your plan just completely bypasses you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Mini could target whoever they wanted really, but just need to specifically limit it because we don’t want you targeting the same person.

[Flavor Leaf]

There isn’t, unless for some reason Mafia decided to No Kill.

Which I would put money on the fact that they didn’t do that on Night 1, when they have a Doctor.

[Flavor Leaf]

9 and 2, we kill in the 6

let’s say we hit town + night kill

Day 3

7 and 2, we likely don’t get any clears this night, because an investigative will die, probably Mini.

We kill in the remaining 4 VT’s and I also shoot in them.

Day 4

We are 4 and 2. 2 remaining VT’s + Taylor, 2 of the 3 are scum. Scum have to make sure to get by everything and they’re forced to make the night kills we want them to or they will be completely caught.

The remaining scum have to literally be the last person standing in that group of 6, and I think mixed in with day play, it’s nigh impossible here for the final scum.

That’s the only possible way scum can pull this off.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like your plan just completely bypasses you.

no my plan results in my death tomorrow if we dont find scum.

You should just be gunsmithed. Skips the middle man.

Mini likely isn’t getting a clear because death anyways.

We can actually do Mini picks a target in advance, and then have you do 1 of 3 so potential for greater chance of hitting scum.

However you get legit clears and guilties if we get down to 1 scum after today, which is an essential part of this.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t want to deal with Bob living and having a No Gun result on anyone except for you, tbh.

[Flavor Leaf]

Taylor trying not to be gunsmithed originally also boosts her likelihood of her not being the Mafia Doctor, by the way.

In addition to the fact that if she is scum, I thought she was the one who got doctored, so I think Bob on Taylor is the play.

We fade in Creature or Gamma.

Mini Investigates Pooky.

Then Taylor tracks within Osuka, Battle Mage, and then Creature/Gamma.

I personally think Battle Mage is okay to be one of the people not taken care of in the beginning.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, we have 5 conf towns. We win this 99% of the time.

[Flavor Leaf]

Just waiting for Bob to show up before we full send a wagon really. Want to make sure he talks before

[Flavor Leaf]

Just waiting for Bob to show up before we full send a wagon really. Want to make sure he talks before

So if Taylor is scum, Gamma can be a partner, which coincides when Gamma tried moving off of Taylor onto Battle Mage.

[Flavor Leaf]

Just waiting for Bob to show up before we full send a wagon really. Want to make sure he talks before

So if Taylor is scum, Gamma can be a partner, which coincides when Gamma tried moving off of Taylor onto Battle Mage.

Coincidentally, this also fits in with my original theory of Gamma, Mini, Battle Mage having scum in them, but Mini is pulled out from this, and I’m not sitting with this completely, but Gamma/Taylor have extreme partner associations as of right now.

If either of them flipped scum, then I’d probably go the other.

@Taylor - would you be willing to go Gamma today?

[Flavor Leaf]

We just can’t risk it or we open up our chances to losing.

I’m doing the highest in the bare minimum effort.

What if Taylor is the scum Goon? Then this plan works effortlessly, and if we hit 1 scum, we win basically.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like Night 3, I’m shooting Taylor if this isn’t resolved, let’s just resolve it?

It also forces scum to potentially try and save ScumTaylor if she is that slot, and then Mini gets an accurate result on you, or whoever ends up being their preannounced target.

[Flavor Leaf]

worst case scenario i'm projecting we are lylo D5 with 2 conf town 2 sus-town 50/50 shot of winning

Yep. That is worst case scenario, and that’s if we suck with Day play.

Safe Night Play in this situation is 100% better than taking the risk to try and get a sneaky catch.

[Flavor Leaf]

We essentially use our Night play as Day Play from this point on, so all town are on the exact same page, and we do our best at clearing as many as we can. If we hit scum today by fading in the 5, we auto win based on Taylor getting a clear.

One clear at this point, wins us the game, we need to maximize it. The plan with the 1 of 3 for Taylor is the best way of maximizing the actions because it’s the most likely for us to get a clear and not have any overlaps in action, but still make scum outguess.

The only outlier in that scenario, is if Mini targets scum, so maybe we should put Mini on someone we think will flip town, and try to put the remaining in the 1 of 3.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Bob hits Taylor for No Gun, and scum doc flips, Taylor become conf town. That’s a town auto win.

If we correctly fade today, that’s an auto win.

If scum are forced to kill Bob or Taylor, that’s an auto win.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ydrasse has the potential to get another save as well, which opens up Bob for another gunsmith down the line, so scum essentially have to kill Mini, then Ydrasse, then Bob, and I’ll get to use my N3 big shot 100% of the time, if we even want to use the shot.

[Flavor Leaf]

They can risk keeping Ydrasse alive, but that’s a conf townie who can stop kills.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bob getting another gunsmith check could be clutch then.

Hell, Bob hasn’t even claimed the even night yet, but i just assumed, so i don’t even wanna assume that yet, but yeah, I’m probably N4 death.

Idk if game gets that far without hitting a scum by Day 5, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, Osuka’s probably the partner to whichever of Creature/Gamma is scum.

I naturally town read Battle and Pooky when I’m interacting with them, and Taylor has essentially lost if she is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

i told you earlier, i concede.

It’s been on my mind since then.

Part of me legit thinks scum you quit, then Battle Mage changed minds and went “fuck it, let’s full send”.

So I still wanna believe I am right with BM and TS from earlier.

And it’s also looking like if they are the team, they’re probably the best pairing to get to that 50/50.

[Flavor Leaf]

fucking hell Flavor
I'm carrying a shredder with me from now on so if you try to pull out a card indicating you can read me I can shred it on sight. You can't say you can read me if your read flips nigh instantaneously.

I’m past reads in this game, tbh.

I’m mech breaking the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Taylor - You don’t make it to Day 4 if you holster Night 2, I assure you that. While yes, that is an option, and if you are town, that makes sense to do, but we have to assure that you are town, if that makes sense.

I have to shoot you Night 3, essentially if we aren’t sure.

And if we hit scum today, you’re essentially a cop.

[Flavor Leaf]

the other advantage of this plan is that the cop can investigate someone suspicious rather than the towniest person for a clear. this is way better. if we lunch town bob on me and cop on ???. if we hit scum then bob on me and cop on tbd with me on ???

We’re in a situation where 1 clear wins the game, so it doesn’t matter where Cop hits, and does nothing to hurt by announcing it before hand, so we should announce it before hand

[Flavor Leaf]

Taylor trying not to be gunsmithed originally also boosts her likelihood of her not being the Mafia Doctor, by the way.

In addition to the fact that if she is scum, I thought she was the one who got doctored, so I think Bob on Taylor is the play.

We fade in Creature or Gamma.

Mini Investigates Pooky.

Then Taylor tracks within Osuka, Battle Mage, and then Creature/Gamma.

I personally think Battle Mage is okay to be one of the people not taken care of in the beginning.

what
why are you suggesting me/creature be taken out first, when you've been SRing BM?

I said to kill the strongest or most likely to be able to wiggle out of the game first then put you and Creature.

Who of the 5 others are the 2 scum?

Battle Mages mass claim anti ness seemed too much to be coming from scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

I could be wrong, yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't think I would raise this much fuss as scum over a massclaim if I was specifically gonna go with it like I did this game
I either gripe about it way harder or comply near instantly
As town I generally tend to be picky about when and how massclaims happen, sometimes to my detriment.

Honestly, that’s neither here nor there.

Literally, all 6 of you I can make a town case for. It just happens 2 of the 6 are scum.

Probably just go Osuka this day phase.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, Osuka’s probably the partner to whichever of Creature/Gamma is scum.

I naturally town read Battle and Pooky when I’m interacting with them, and Taylor has essentially lost if she is scum.

for someone whose reads are "extraordinarily good", this is remarkably wrong

I mean, all 6 of you guys are gonna say the exact same thing,
So get outta here, I don’t care at this point, we got a mech solve.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is the thing we have learnt nothing new from this mass claim. We outed every town pr in exchange for knowing all the players we thought were town are town

False.

You and Mini became conf town. As did Ydrasse and Johnny.

Like come on. Think

[Flavor Leaf]

This is the thing we have learnt nothing new from this mass claim. We outed every town pr in exchange for knowing all the players we thought were town are town

He’s a Gunsmith of sorts.

I dont think i could of been more obvious. Ive been calling myself Mr.smith and keep saying that you have gum. and that BM has no gum.

Even told you, dont shoot the gunsmith wink wink

I knew you were, why are you acting like I didn’t figure it out?

I clearly stated you were a Gunsmith prior to the mass claim finishing.

Mass claim gave us an auto win.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is the thing we have learnt nothing new from this mass claim. We outed every town pr in exchange for knowing all the players we thought were town are town

False.

You and Mini became conf town. As did Ydrasse and Johnny.

Like come on. Think

you think 4 people became conftown because they claimed PRs? lol id love to hear this one.

They did.

Johnny’s 5 gun informed confirms Bob, Myself, and Mini as town.

And ydrasse being the only protective + protection on Johnny makes them conf town.

5 conf town.


@Bob - Can you check Taylor tonight?

[Flavor Leaf]

I still think Battle Mage is Mafia Doctor. I’ll likely shoot within them and Taylor if nothing’s figured out Night 3.


Okay, so we just need Mini to check in.


Creature actually is doing stuff, which gives him some town equity.

Battle Mage can be cleared of a Maf Doc flips.

Pooky, Osuka, Gamma is one of the 3 we should go.

[Flavor Leaf]

Night Actions

@Bob - can you confirm Taylor for us? Actually, I don’t care who you target anymore, just target within those 6 obviously preferably not the same as Mini.

@Mini - Can you target Gamma for us?

@Taylor - Can you target 1 of the 3 we don’t fade today and separate from who Mini checks? (We talked earlier, I feel it’s acceptable not to list em again here) also, it’s fine if you target the same person as Bob.

VOTE: Osuka

Creature helps, Gamma’s on the mafia version of a groomsman, and I like Pooky around, and Osuka annoyed me.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is the thing we have learnt nothing new from this mass claim. We outed every town pr in exchange for knowing all the players we thought were town are town

False.

You and Mini became conf town. As did Ydrasse and Johnny.

Like come on. Think

you think 4 people became conftown because they claimed PRs? lol id love to hear this one.

They did.

Johnny’s 5 gun informed confirms Bob, Myself, and Mini as town.

And ydrasse being the only protective + protection on Johnny makes them conf town.

5 conf town.


@Bob - Can you check Taylor tonight?

unless johnny is lying? which throws everybody else back into doubt.

ydrasse thing is not a certainty. but i'd prefer to flip johnny on your logic to confirm 3 others.

i find it hard to believe the setup would be so weak that it can be broken like this on day 2, despite scum getting a mis-elim on day 1.

It was the block kill and scum death, and mass claim that went smoothly.

Johnny got protected by Ydrasse, and there’s no other way the no kill could have happened, and frankly Dongen/Johnny slot made sense to kill because like I said earlier, Ydrasse looks like they were being setup to be faded today.

I agree with you Creature.

I also think Battle Mage has Scum Doc potential, I called him out as Scum Doc possibly earlier too. But he seems way too out of it here tbh.

[Flavor Leaf]

Pooky, osuka and Gamma refusing to thunderdome each other may point towards the last two scum being two of them.

If you’re scum

, you’ve come a damn long way in the past few years.

I striked when I realized the sentence made more sense without the first part.

[Flavor Leaf]

I still think Battle Mage is Mafia Doctor. I’ll likely shoot within them and Taylor if nothing’s figured out Night 3.


Okay, so we just need Mini to check in.


Creature actually is doing stuff, which gives him some town equity.

Battle Mage can be cleared of a Maf Doc flips.

Pooky, Osuka, Gamma is one of the 3 we should go.

2 pages ago you reckoned that i had come across as town in every interaction you had with me. Which begs the unanswerable question, why did you ever think I was scum? much less so now, when statistically the odds of me being scum are pretty slim in a world where Bob is town.

i'm fine with you killing me tonight though. you're a loose cannon, and at least it stops you killing a PR. plus it means i can escape this nightmare. i'm just at a total loss to defend your 'reads' or your 'strategy'. even if you're right, and somehow managed to mechanically break the game, that's definitely not a reflection of your brilliance - it's a stroke of total luck.

I can’t kill tonight. I’m odd night.

[Flavor Leaf]

I do reads black and white like most people.

I just have an ever evolving reads. I have won games specifically because I scum read someone who I always scum read when they are town, and i used that to hit actual scum, so don’t look at it in a black and white sense.

I also pushed you right when i joined in the game and didn’t have a full field of view. Mass claim did exactly what I thought it had potential to do.

Luck is a skill of mine.

[Flavor Leaf]

I like you around too when you post stuff that makes sense :3

It just took me a while to get there. It works a lot better if people who know me well can be the middle man and make sense of what I’m trying to say.

Bob and Gamma SHOULD have been that.

@Gamma - Battle Mage never lives through this game if they are scum, so I think we can afford going elsewhere today. I agree, they could be playing ignorant scum who’s upset about the mech break. It’s scum’s job to avoid stuff like that, though day play wise.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, unfortunately, I do think you’re scum here, Gamma. I will actively listen to any cases tomorrow, of course, and I’m actively going Osuka over you today.

Just the mech break. :/

Taylor being scum could throw a wrench in everything, but let’s kill Osuka and move on with the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

im always against mass claiming until lylo-1

I understand. We got a mech break here, though!

How do we handle if Taylor is scum?

Actually, you will start clearing people as not partners if we hit a non doc again with you.

[Flavor Leaf]

one thing we can know for sure is that flav would never nk a scum buddy even if it was allowed. Flav prefers to be first scum to be execd and is hard against bussing

While true, I did win an epic scum game earlier this year on my stealth April Ludgate account, and I claimed a track guilty on my scum partner (Votato) Day 2, then Mastina and I were arguing all game, and when she got guiltied alongside Chemist (yeah, double guilty that game sucked) i got conf town credit cuz we were arguing back and forth, but the townies cross voted in 3p lylo.

So like, I have bussed successfully, but I digress. You are correct in what I like. But yeah, I’m never gonna NK a buddy like that.

[Flavor Leaf]

im always against mass claiming until lylo-1

I understand. We got a mech break here, though!

How do we handle if Taylor is scum?

Actually, you will start clearing people as not partners if we hit a non doc again with you.

i prob dont make it to day 3 unless osuka is the goon

We win if this is the case.

Mini getting a clear wins us the game.

You can’t both die.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Mini - Will you target Gamma Emerald tonight? This is the one you should stick to. I know we said a lot, but we hadn’t decided on the fade quite yet. Gamma is a good target.

[Flavor Leaf]

there's like no way johnny is scum, he's been proven twice over

i aint seen that? someone said he waited until 4 or 5 people claimed to have guns, and then claimed his info was that 5 people had guns.

Bob hadn’t claimed officially at the time, and neither did Ydrasse. They also weren’t aware that Mafia Doctor didn’t have a gun, and thought it made one of Me, Bob, or Mini scum.

And Ydrasse protected them, and there was a no kill.

Twice proven. I went into tinfoil on Johnny theory earlier, so I understand the paranoia.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gamma/Taylor voting together gives me pause, but full send Osuka. We just need 1 clear in this game and we win.

Strictly mechanical.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeha, I’m willing to wait. I thought Mini got out of the hospital yesterday, they said. But regardless, waiting for Mini is fine. Osuka is the dedicated fade today.

[Flavor Leaf]

also BM be quiet.

lol you be quiet

Post of the game, ngl

[Flavor Leaf]

We’d win auto if they did.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m honestly not even trying to read you, Osuka. It literally doesn’t matter. Mech win.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Osuka

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, Bob can go anywhere in the Poe really.

[Flavor Leaf]

Taylor never wins here if she’s scum, though

[Flavor Leaf]

NIGHT ACTIONS
@Bob - can you confirm Taylor for us? Actually, I don’t care who you target anymore, just target within t hose 6 obviously preferably not the same as Mini.

@Mini - Can you target Gamma for us?

@Taylor - Can you target 1 of the 3 we don’t fade today and separate from who Mini checks? (We talked earlier, I feel it’s acceptable not to list em again here) also, it’s fine if you target the same person as Bob.
Actions@Bob - can you confirm Taylor for us? Actually, I don’t care who you target anymore, just target within those 6 obviously preferably not the same as Mini.@Mini - Can you target Gamma for us?@Taylor - Can you target 1 of the 3 we don’t fade today and separate from who Mini checks? (We talked earlier, I feel it’s acceptable not to list em again here) also, it’s fine if you target the same person as Bob.

ok we ready to move on here? i think we ready.

get on osuka

again, mini targt gamma. bob on me (or whomever bob decides, but prolly me). me on one of the others. i wont target gamma, but no other promises

In the Poe is the promise needing to be made.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, wait for Bob to come in and say who they targeted.

Gamma - VT
Pooky - VT
Creature - VT
BattleMage - VT
Taylor - 1 shot Tracker nothing on Creature.

2 of these 5 are scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

If my kill doesn’t go through tonight, that means I hit scum, so I’ll announce who I’m shooting before we end the day.

[Flavor Leaf]

Johnny has to be lying for it not to be the case.

And Ydrasse protected them on the no kill with no other explanation.

[Flavor Leaf]

A missed Vig kill is fine too because it counts as a guilty. We also know Bob will either have another Not Doctor or a scum hit

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, if my kill doesn’t go through, that means the Mafia Doctor targeted my target.

Ah fuck. Mafia Doctor can target townies.

Nevermind with that then

[Flavor Leaf]

It also would confirm my target as Not Doctor however.

[Flavor Leaf]

Johnny has to be lying for it not to be the case.

And Ydrasse protected them on the no kill with no other explanation.

yeah it's unlikely, but not impossible.

I think it’s only possible if scum No kill gambited Night 1, which I don’t think is likely.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Gamma is scum, so really the doctor thing isn’t gonna matter much.

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, we’re in a mech path anyways, it’s good to talk about all possibilities.

I think we’re fine. Chance we slip through cracks, but i say just go for it.

Gamma today for sure.

[Flavor Leaf]

Taylor and BM are not partners confirmed. I like that, I was town reading Battle Mage anyways now, so that's good.

Taylor is a little townier now because I expected them to not be Maf Doctor if they are scum, but they still have that chance.

Gamma
Pooky
Creature
Taylor
Battle Mage

I personally town read Battle Mage, and I want to town read Taylor.

I say fade Gamma. If Gamma flips town, then it's in the 4, one will be shot, then it'll be in the 3. and I just think BM is town here. so it'll be in the 2 left in the POE alive, meaning if we don't hit scum, then we still win if BM is town.

And honestly, I think Gamma flips scum.

If Gamma is scum doctor, then Battle Mage and Taylor are CONFIRMED town, meaning final scum is in Creature/Pooky.

If Gamma is scum not doctor, then damn scum is in the 4, but we have a pretty good scenario going,.

Okay, so here's what I think the plan should be.

If Gamma flips scum doctor, gunsmith Pooky, I'm shooting Creature. Ydrasse doctors Bob.
If Gamma flips scum not doctor, gunsmith becomes irrelevant, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors Flavor Leaf.
If Gamma is town, gunsmith Creature, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors 1 of me and Bob, they don't say it out loud.

In theory, if Battle Mage is town, this always wins us the game, but this is a big if.

I personally think the team is Creature and Gamma or Gamma and Taylor.

[Flavor Leaf]

Day 1 VC's.

Spoiler:

1.1

Johnny

(3) : Battle Mage,

TheGoldenParadox

,

bob3141

[E-4]
Battle Mage (2) : PookyTheMagicalBear, Tayl0r Swift

Ydrasse (1) :Johnny

shellyc (1) : osuka

PookyTheMagicalBear (1) :

MiniMegabyte

MiniMegabyte (1) : Ydrasse

Flavor Leaf

(1) : Creature

Not voting (3):

shellyc, Flavor Leaf,

Gamma Emerald

1.2

Johnny

(3) : Battle Mage,

TheGoldenParadox

,

bob3141

[E-4]

Ydrasse (2) : Johnny, shellyc

shellyc (2) : osuka,

PookyTheMagicalBear
PookyTheMagicalBear (1) :

MiniMegabyte

MiniMegabyte (1) : Ydrasse

TheGoldenParadox

(1) : Gamma Emerald
Battle Mage (1) : Tayl0r Swift

Flavor Leaf

(1) : Creature

Not voting (1):

Flavor Leaf

1.3

shellyc (4) : osuka,

PookyTheMagicalBear,

TheGoldenParadox,

MiniMegabyte

[E-3]

Ydrasse (2) : Johnny, shellyc

MiniMegabyte (2) : Ydrasse,

Battle Mage

Johnny (1) : bob3141

TheGoldenParadox

(1) : Gamma Emerald
Battle Mage (1) : Tayl0r Swift

Not voting (2):

Flavor Leaf

, Creature

1.4

shellyc (7) : osuka,

PookyTheMagicalBear,

TheGoldenParadox,

MiniMegabyte,

Battle Mage, Gamma Emerald,

Ydrasse

[E-0]

Ydrasse (2) : Johnny, shellyc

Battle Mage (2) : Tayl0r Swift,

bob3141

Not voting (2):

Flavor Leaf,

Creature

gamma being on Golden for a bit, only to vote shelly in the end like that alongside golden probably locks them as scum. Then it's probably with Pooky. Creature/Taylor are the backups.

We can also get auto win if I shoot scum doctor tonight, so there are other options. I'll do Day 2 next.

[Flavor Leaf]

Taylor is 1 shot tracker claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Gamma is scum, they made the kill last night 100% of the time.

[Flavor Leaf]

Day 2 VC's.

Spoiler:

2.1

Gamma Emerald (2): Battle Mage,

bob3141

[E-4]
Tayl0r Swift (2):

JohnnyFarrar, Flavor Leaf

[E-4]
Battle Mage (1): Tayl0r Swift

Not voting (6):

osuka, Ydrasse,

PookyTheMagicalBear,

MiniMegabyte,

Creature, Gamma Emerald

2.2

Tayl0r Swift (4):

JohnnyFarrar, Flavor Leaf,

Gamma Emerald,

bob3141

[E-2]
Battle Mage (1): Tayl0r Swift

Flavor Leaf

(1): Battle Mage

Not voting (5):

osuka, Ydrasse,

PookyTheMagicalBear,

MiniMegabyte

, Creature

2.3

Battle Mage (2): Tayl0r Swift, Gamma Emerald [E-4]
Tayl0r Swift (2):

JohnnyFarrar, Flavor Leaf

[E-4]
Flavor Leaf (1): Battle Mage

Not voting (6):

osuka, Ydrasse,

PookyTheMagicalBear,

MiniMegabyte

, Creature,

bob3141

2.4

Battle Mage (2): Tayl0r Swift, Gamma Emerald [E-4]
Tayl0r Swift (2):

JohnnyFarrar

, Creature [E-4]

Flavor Leaf

(1): Battle Mage

Not voting (6):

osuka, Ydrasse

, PookyTheMagicalBear,

MiniMegabyte, bob3141, Flavor Leaf

2.5

bob3141 (4): Flavor Leaf,

Tayl0r Swift,

JohnnyFarrar, osuka

[E-2]
Tayl0r Swift (2): Creature, Battle Mage

osuka (1): bob3141

Battle Mage (1): Gamma Emerald

Not voting (3):

Ydrasse,

PookyTheMagicalBear,

MiniMegabyte

2.6

Battle Mage (2): Gamma Emerald, Tayl0r Swift [E-4]

bob3141 (2): Flavor Leaf, osuka

[E-4]
Tayl0r Swift (2): Creature, Battle Mage [E-4]

osuka (1): bob3141

Not voting (4):

Ydrasse,

PookyTheMagicalBear,

MiniMegabyte, JohnnyFarrar

2.7

Tayl0r Swift (2): Creature, Battle Mage [E-4]

osuka (1): bob3141

Battle Mage (1): Gamma Emerald

bob3141 (1): osuka

Gamma Emerald (1): Tayl0r Swift

Not voting (5):

Ydrasse,

PookyTheMagicalBear,

MiniMegabyte, JohnnyFarrar, Flavor Leaf

2.8

osuka (4): bob3141,

Creature,

Flavor Leaf,

PookyTheMagicalBear [E-2]
Battle Mage (2): Tayl0r Swift, Gamma Emerald

bob3141 (1): osuka

Gamma Emerald (1): Battle Mage

Not voting (3):

Ydrasse, MiniMegabyte, JohnnyFarrar

2.9

osuka (5): bob3141, Flavor Leaf,

Tayl0r Swift, PookyTheMagicalBear,

JohnnyFarrar

[E-1]
PookyTheMagicalBear (1):

osuka

Battle Mage (1): Gamma Emerald

Not voting (4):

Ydrasse, MiniMegabyte,

Creature, Battle Mage

2.10

osuka (6): bob3141, Flavor Leaf,

Tayl0r Swift, PookyTheMagicalBear,

JohnnyFarrar,

Battle Mage [E-0]
PookyTheMagicalBear (1):

osuka

Battle Mage (1): Gamma Emerald

Not voting (3):

Ydrasse, MiniMegabyte,

Creature

First off, Gamma on 2.2 on Taylor as only non confirmed town is something. Then they switch to Battle Mage alongside Taylor. That is a possible Gamma/Taylor.

2.5 does the opposite and only Taylor is not green so far on Bob, while Creature went on Taylor now that it's died down a bit.

Creature also jumps off of Osuka when it starts to pick up steam, Creature/Gamma are the only 2 off the wagon. Is Osuka a potential all town wagon? I think so, but Pooky jump there also makes sense as scum, but I feel this is likely a 1 off wagon, 1 on situation.

Idk. I think Gamma looks poor on VCA from both days.

[Flavor Leaf]

Creature/Gamma
Gamma/Taylor
Pooky/Taylor
Pooky/Gamma

I think it has to be one of these. I don't think Creature and Taylor slots would both be off of the Day 1 wagon, so at least 1 of Pooky and Gamma are scum, possibly both.

Gamma targeting Battle Mage who was in a 1v1 with Taylor also makes sense for a Gamma Chainsaw defending Taylor buddy.

Gamma/Creature if it was only 1 scum on the Shelly wagon, and Taylor is town.

I think we full send Gamma 100% of the time today, and go from there. If Gamma is scum doctor, Taylor and Battle Mage are confirmed town.

if gamma is scum, but not doctor, I'm shooting Taylor. Then Pooky/Creature we go after.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm okay having the game go to Creature/Battle Mage 50/50, i think, if need be. ScumCreature will put up a better fight than townBattle Mage, keep that in mind.

[Flavor Leaf]

as long as the team isnt exactly Creature/Battle Mage, then we likely auto win this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

VC 2.5, 2.6, and 2.7, Creature and Battle Mage are voting together against Taylor, i think that might indicate that they aren't teammates considering other wagons were on town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, so here's what I think the plan should be.

If Gamma flips scum doctor, gunsmith Pooky, I'm shooting Creature. Ydrasse doctors Bob.
If Gamma flips scum not doctor, gunsmith becomes irrelevant, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors Flavor Leaf.
If Gamma is town, gunsmith Creature, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors 1 of me and Bob, they don't say it out loud.

I say we go with this.

[Flavor Leaf]

could switch Pooky/Creature for the first scenario.

[Flavor Leaf]

if we lose, it's because Battle Mage is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Creature also jumps off of Osuka when it starts to pick up steam

Pretty sure I jumped off of it when there was nightplan yet to be done.

that sounds right. i was just doing a surface level VCA, most just for a visual aid.

I think it's gamma/taylor or gamma/pooky, but I'm just covering the bases in regards to you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Night 3 Plan

If Gamma flips scum doctor, gunsmith Creature, I'm shooting Pooky. Ydrasse doctors Bob.
If Gamma flips scum not doctor, gunsmith becomes irrelevant, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors Flavor Leaf.
If Gamma is town, gunsmith Creature, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors 1 of me and Bob, they don't say it out loud.

Let's do this instead. Switched Creature and Pooky. this way, Creature always gets gunsmithed tonight essentially.

[Flavor Leaf]

if we lose, it's because Battle Mage is scum.

im town dude, im putting it out there that if town loses this, it's because of your plan.

If you are town, town can't lose.

[Flavor Leaf]

My plan's only hole is broken if Battle Mage is scum, and then it comes down to a 50/50, so it's not even the end of the world really.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I'm super paranoid of some Johnny next level scum play, but like, I can't even think of a tinfoil for it.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Gamma is town, gunsmith Creature, I'm shooting Taylor.

But why Taylor over Pooky?

because Pooky's gonna sit down and take his fade, where Taylor would be a whole day's worth of circular arguments. And in the scenario where taylor doesn't get confirmed off a scum flip, I think they're scum doc. I also think that if I don't, Scumtaylor makes it to the 50/50 somehow against Battle Mage, and I actively am avoiding that scenario.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm just covering all bases. pooky never lives regardless in that scenario. he doesnt end game if he is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am also abusing the idea that tomorrow Creature pushes through a successful Pooky fade regardless of Creature's alignment, if that makes sense.

I've essentially setup a plan so Pooky is always the Day 4 fade without any guilties.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm putting you in check, Creature, harnessing you essentially, if you are scum.

But I'm getting town vibes from you, but understand that a Creature Gamma scum team here, Creature always pushes Pooky.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I'm super paranoid of some Johnny next level scum play, but like, I can't even think of a tinfoil for it.

this is the situation i'm referring to. and from my perspective, if town loses this it's because we have focussed on mechsolving rather than scumhunting. In a normal scenario, Johnny is an easy flip. We'll see, I'm just going on the record now so I can save face if we lose. but if you're right, a win is a win, and gratefully received.

battle mage locktown

I think the game ends with Gamma fade, Taylor vig, tbh.

And if not, Bob can possibly catch out Creature anyways. It's just the process. Everytime you speak, I town read you, so I'm actively creating a situation where I'm defending you because you're the secondary option to fade today. I'm defending you in that scenario, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I'm super paranoid of some Johnny next level scum play, but like, I can't even think of a tinfoil for it.

this is the situation i'm referring to. and from my perspective, if town loses this it's because we have focussed on mechsolving rather than scumhunting. In a normal scenario, Johnny is an easy flip. We'll see, I'm just going on the record now so I can save face if we lose. but if you're right, a win is a win, and gratefully received.

Yeah, I'll probably never mass claim again if this is the case.

[Flavor Leaf]

but to be fair, BM, I have been doing both scumhunting and mechsolving, as well as strengthening my town reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

Night 3 Plan

If Gamma flips scum doctor, gunsmith Creature, I'm shooting Pooky. Ydrasse doctors Bob.
If Gamma flips scum not doctor, gunsmith becomes irrelevant, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors Flavor Leaf.
If Gamma is town, gunsmith Creature, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors 1 of me and Bob, they don't say it out loud.

Look good to you, Johnny?

We setup a situation where the only way we don't auto win is if Battle Mage is scum. If he is scum, he will be put into a 50/50 with Creature, likely. I might even be more willing to make that 50/50 Pooky/BM, because I think Creature has high scum equity if Gamma/Taylor isnt the team as well, but I really do think it's just Gamma/Taylor.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm just covering all bases. pooky never lives regardless in that scenario. he doesnt end game if he is scum.

Okay I understand. I'm just afraid of there being a potentially clearing evidence for Taylor and we missing it.

if a maf doc flips, they're cleared, but so is Battle Mage, so it works either way.

[Flavor Leaf]

if Gamma is town, I have to actively try to shoot the Mafia Doctor, which Taylor has to be if she is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

And if Gamma is scum, but not doctor, last scum is doctor, so those clears don't mean anything.

[Flavor Leaf]

let's wait for Ydrasse to see the plan, maybe for Bob to check in, and then go forth.

Maybe even let Gamma speak in case they are town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Night 3 Plan

If Gamma flips scum doctor, gunsmith Creature, I'm shooting Pooky. Ydrasse doctors Bob.
If Gamma flips scum not doctor, gunsmith becomes irrelevant, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors Flavor Leaf.
If Gamma is town, gunsmith Creature, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors 1 of me and Bob, they don't say it out loud.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Gamma flips scum not doctor, gunsmith becomes irrelevant, I'm shooting Taylor. Ydrasse doctors Flavor Leaf.

this is the situation that leads to Creature/Battle Mage. Creature/Gamma is the scum team likely in this situation, and Creature would be scum doc.

[Flavor Leaf]

we gonna be at 6 people tomorrow.

I think it's 5 and 1 if Gamma is scum. fade on Pooky/Creature. night kill.

3 and 1 with a Creature/Battle Mage and 2 townies, likely Bob and Johnny. If I live here, it's auto win because I'd be able to shoot this night, so I'll always die Night 4 likely. Maybe tonight if there's some weird stuff, but yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

My plan works even if you end up being town, Gamma.

Accept it.

It’s over. I have the high ground.

[Flavor Leaf]

Although, from Gamma’s perspective, Battle Mage Maf Doc gets through this game.

But like, at this point, if Battle Mage is scum, and he won this way, what a hilarious outcome

[Flavor Leaf]

Although, from Gamma’s perspective, Battle Mage Maf Doc gets through this game.

But like, at this point, if Battle Mage is scum, and he won this way, what a hilarious outcome

[Flavor Leaf]

And like, we have 6 whole days. We can break this setup.
@Pooky very much, yes.

I don’t understand your hold up.

Already have broken it to its max potential.

[Flavor Leaf]

Perhaps we should plan the 1v1. Incase BM is last scum who is the best to go against him?

I would prefer Pooky vs Battle Mage be the final 1v1, if that’s even necessary. Or Creature vs BM. I don’t see any other options.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Gamma is just trying to delay and help open scum team up for a victory