Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

[midwaybear]

joke

[midwaybear]

Hmm you sound pretty confident?
pedit: @SS

[midwaybear]

Are you going to vote though

[midwaybear]

I feel he's extremely aware of the gamestate of the game, and is using Plus and Maria, in a team effort kind of way, to help boost momentum to certain areas of the game, IE, me, they boosted my momentum to go into their favor, and SS is exactly the type of person to be able to pull this off, especially with Maria who also knows who I am, and Plus the one in my town block.

I don't understand at all what you're accusing me of tbh

And you should know that I coast as town too :3

Hmm...nicely countered if you are scum. And true facts if you are town....

I thought this sequence was pretty funny

[midwaybear]

I don't think that was a particularly good look for Alisae, but my theory still seems pretty compelling. Not sure what Maid Cafe is doing, and I find it weird that they seem to not realize that there is a wagon on them.
VOTE: Maid Cafe

[midwaybear]

I don’t think that’s allowed, but I was also thinking that it didn’t fit in with the theme (if that’s what you’re thinking).

[midwaybear]

Surely we owe them at least one day to confirm themselves

I was thinking this too until the claim.

[midwaybear]

This is a mini theme game so roles don’t necessarily have to fall under the normal category. Primed means the action occurs next phase.

[midwaybear]

Good point
VOTE: 420

[midwaybear]

He is underselling himself, but I do think he does not enjoy the alignment.
This is borderline angleshooting though

[midwaybear]

yeah yeah this isn't a normal game
I just think suicide bomber does not make sense with a town flavor, but the point beeboy made makes sense?

[midwaybear]

when they are confirmed, they die...

[midwaybear]

I know that. It just makes me more hesitant because you might make excuses and stuff for why you haven't "bombed" anyone. With an IC, there is no doubt.

[midwaybear]

I’m pretty sure this is a leashing situation, right?

I think this would be good.

[midwaybear]

We have reasons for wanting them to flavor claim.

I wonder what this could be.

[midwaybear]

I don't know if that is a good idea.

[midwaybear]

I just don't want them to use their "ability" on someone and then say that the target looks town the next day. And on and on. However, if they are telling the truth, it wouldn't be great if they were forced to use their ability. I'm not really sure how to handle this.

[midwaybear]

My view on 420 has gotten progressively lower, and I think it is a good policy. However, we could also leash Maid to 420 because that's the slot I'm fine with killing off and it doesn't really give Maid a chance to make an excuse.

[midwaybear]

Why wouldn’t it be great to force them to use their ability? They can choose whoever they want.

If they are town and choose a target that also is town, strongmanning that suicide bomb without reconsideration is not smart.

[midwaybear]

@3805 fair enough
comes with the bonus of an additional flip ig
not sure what you mean in 3804. Yeah, scum get a say, but it's similar to hanging someone each day. Scum will say stuff, but it's optimal to hang and it is controlled by town.

[midwaybear]

Even if we force them to detonate tomorrow with no exception?

[midwaybear]

What's the big deal with flavor? Mafia have fakeclaims right

[midwaybear]

Ok

[midwaybear]

Yeah, scum get a say, but it's similar to hanging someone each day. Scum will say stuff, but it's optimal to hang and it is controlled by town.

Thank you Something Smart

[midwaybear]

I mean you pretty much did, but this isn’t something I want to argue about.

[midwaybear]

Vanity and flash wagon don’t go together. I don’t think he is a good option for today.

[midwaybear]

I don’t really think he is scum at this point even if he has been scummy.

[midwaybear]

It definitely matters who they “pick” if they are scum.

[midwaybear]

Scum rarely if ever have roles that exchange 1 for 1

There is a role called Mafia Suicide Bomber in the kids with lungs setup.

[midwaybear]

a consensus scumread

Does this exist though?

[midwaybear]

So are we sure Alisae’s town?

[midwaybear]

Not sure if this confirms Maid as town or scum.

[midwaybear]

rip SS
the more important part of my read on him was correct, but I guess it was for the wrong reasons.

[midwaybear]

Yeah, I'm not sure this ... situation with Maid can really be read into at this point. Hopefully future flips and whatnot will give us more info, but I don't know if it is worth pursuing today.

[midwaybear]

scum liking the position they are in is a fine take and maybe correct, but also somewhat concerning if we are talking about the game state.

[midwaybear]

This is somewhat unrelated, but I thought that Bell gained some kind of posting restriction at the start of day.

[midwaybear]

hm I'm wondering when this maid thing could get resolved and if we need to worry about that

[midwaybear]

I thought he was a PR lol

[midwaybear]

there is an extemely high chance of a scum being within maid, ST, or remi

This is probably true, but I don't really want to take a risk and go remi/ST today

[midwaybear]

I don't really believe in WIFOM(but I guess it sometimes happens), so I think the statement that there is scum in Maid, Remilia, and ST is true 90% of the time. I'm pretty sure Maid is not detonating today and there's no way to vote them. The chance of them being scum in this situation is a decent chance, so I'm not sure if I would like to go ST/Remilia.

My solid town tier is probably just morph and muffin. April is somewhat sketchy and I do think this particular NK would be favorable towards them as scum. I don't think they are scum from D1, but there's some doubt which puts him below. I don't really want to go Bulge today, so my POE for today is {Bell, Rem, ST, 420, Plus}. Right now, I would probably say ST is the towniest, but the 3 pool might say otherwise. Realistically, I see us hanged between the last four names here. Have to see where I go from there.

[midwaybear]

Oh yeah, these reads will probably go away once we hit LYLO which I think I will be alive for. I try to completely re-evaluate the field then, but until then I'm probably going to try to build a good towncore up.

[midwaybear]

Quite interested in what April will have to say too

[midwaybear]

I never really townread him. Like you talk about obv town Bell moments, but I don't really see those. Maybe you can talk more about that read?

[midwaybear]

Yeah, I was thinking that too. Either they can't bomb or they are just scum. Unfortunately, there is no difference.

[midwaybear]

A possible strat is that maid is scum and both ST/remi are town, another scum silenced scum!maid after they hastily said some random reads with the suicide bomber claim and planned on silencing them to get a few mislims.

I feel like they had that read for a while at least for rem.

[midwaybear]

Not really

[midwaybear]

What did you want me to engage with you about? Hmm looks like I got baited by a leading question.

[midwaybear]

Oh I thought you were talking to secret tunnels or something. I'm not sure if it was inaccurate, and even if it was, it's not like you came to the wrong conclusion.

[midwaybear]

are you talking about the comment I made in the dead thread where I said I don't make wallposts as town?

[midwaybear]

I guess I'd like morph to clarify what they meant then because I don't remember them reading me off of wallposts. Only readlists and spoiler tag stuff.
pedit: what

[midwaybear]

No...

[midwaybear]

I did have a comment of it in notes, but I guess I felt that it wasn't concerning at the time.

[midwaybear]

Why is muffin town

This is to like anyone who strongly believes it. Quoting past arguments/post numbers are fine.

-innocentvillager

I remember quite liking him pushing Alisae at one point. I forgot posts, and a quick ISO skim didn't really help. This probably isn't helpful, but maybe someone remembers what I'm talking about.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: 420
I think we're in a good spot even if the nightkill suggests otherwise.

[midwaybear]

yooooooooo

[midwaybear]

can you just claim or something

[midwaybear]

or put more effort in

[midwaybear]

so we have 3 claimed pr ok...

[midwaybear]

system overload

[midwaybear]

hmm does the only night part make sense with a suicide bomber

[midwaybear]

oops that's on me if this is legit?

[midwaybear]

should he claim his target?

[midwaybear]

I mean it could provide info if he is maf which I find to still be somewhat likely. Agree that we probably don't go here today though
UNVOTE:

[midwaybear]

yeah probably
that's no help

[midwaybear]

There’s a chance he got scared when I voted him and called him partners with Plus, if I was correct with that.

I'm pretty sure this isn't why people replace out.

[midwaybear]

nice
why would we mass claim though?

[midwaybear]

Is it a good idea to elim outside of the claims today?

[midwaybear]

but you know that it at least makes it theoretically unsound to get rid of you before a xylo scenario (which, if it comes down to it, 100% needs to be tested, no questions asked)

This seems like the mechanically correct move, but I swear that these types of things always go wrong.

[midwaybear]

It doesn't seem like April is doing all of this for post game cred. It just seems like they are constantly shifting their reads with each post in thread even if it means bouncing around a lot. Seems really hard to fake as scum even though I know that he is a great scum player.

[midwaybear]

Who do you know for a fact is town?!!? and why?

pretty sure he is talking about himself

[midwaybear]

Sure, I love massclaim. How are we going to do this?

[midwaybear]

Should we set up an order?

[midwaybear]

how do you get confirmed day 3?

[midwaybear]

VT

[midwaybear]

I'm pretty sure morph and Plus can't be scum together, but I guess it is possible through tinfoil.

[midwaybear]

I think we to focus again. What makes 420's claim town to you morph? I don't remember any explanation really, and I'm probably leaning towards revoting there today. I know muffin said something about it not making sense as a role to claim from a scum perspective, but I'm not sure why that is either.

[midwaybear]

@Midway - what are your thoughts on my POE'd 5?

Why are you townreading Maid? That whole piece of the equation sorta affects everything. I think this silence was just to stall for them and then they try to claim"shenanigans".

[midwaybear]

Yeah, sentimentality, but even so, I want to think deep thoughts about this a while.

Alright. This sorta makes me want to go outside the claims today, but I'm not sure how viable that is.

[midwaybear]

Is pledge trainer your flavor?

[midwaybear]

...maid cafe hasn’t logged in, in 2 days.

What's your point

[midwaybear]

How is their activity alignment indicative?

[midwaybear]

so probably no bomb today and the silence included a role block or they are just scum.

[midwaybear]

Hmm what’s stopping mafia from night killing you then

[midwaybear]

Oh it didn’t sound like that, and I thought you thought doc was incompatible with your role.

[midwaybear]

like if i were to claim early it would be very very easy to get me to ELO

I was talking about this. This didn’t make sense to me because I thought claiming early would be a bad move.

[midwaybear]

Sorted what?

[midwaybear]

Oh I guess that is true sorry. I thought you meant claiming early before you knew a 420 existed.

[midwaybear]

Yeah, if the 420 doc role existed it would be good, but if you didn't know it existed, then I was thinking it would be loss of utility considering you think 420 doesn't fit with your claim.

[midwaybear]

April's just voting muffin and I'm not voting(I think).

[midwaybear]

i guess i'm just suspicious of the person who has more to offer in the last 10 minutes than they did all game before that

what's suspicious?

[midwaybear]

Agree with muffin here. This logging in time doesn't say much about alignment to me.

[midwaybear]

with that being said: @bulge, you said you were neighborized and I believe you, but did you get any mod confirmation or aprils role pm indicating april's alignment in the PT?

Extremely doubtful

[midwaybear]

I think zmuffin is town. Not sure what secret tunnels is getting at

[midwaybear]

The sequence from 69-71 isn’t particularly good, but I guess I’d also like to see what they come up with.

[midwaybear]

I feel like you’re saying that to cover up some of the more questionable actions you have taken. I mean I am fine with how you’re playing.

[midwaybear]

maybe ill trip tonight and do an ama

what's off about me

[midwaybear]

I don't believe you.

Do you think morph is lying in a scummy way or something

[midwaybear]

Nooo april target me
let's be masons

[midwaybear]

Nobody could be 100% sure that Joy is scum here.

His buddies would be

[midwaybear]

Obviously speaking hypothetically
I'm not sure about plus yet. I'm going to let him air out his thoughts about me, but I am seeing what Secret Tunnels is seeing somewhat.

[midwaybear]

Plus just seems somewhat relaxed which I'm not sure how to interpret given that he's basically our leading wagon

[midwaybear]

I feel you
where else are you looking today if not plus?

[midwaybear]

town town town town
town scum town scum
scum town scum
Intent to hammer

[midwaybear]

tearing down to build up

[midwaybear]

Also, midwaybear why the scum read.

I was tired, and it's always been something in the back of my head. I don't think what you've been doing is very hard to fake as scum, and you being a universal townread is somewhat sketchy.

[midwaybear]

well that's not very good for my survival lol

do you not care

[midwaybear]

Tinfoil: April

[midwaybear]

I am really skeptical that this is a town reaction from plus, but I guess I'll take a look at some meta.

[midwaybear]

Ok, it's not really helpful, but I'd like to give him a chance to out final reads and stuff tomorrow when he gets back.
Not sure what I'm expecting but we'll see.

[midwaybear]

Ok Plus is scum with IV very nice
VOTE: PlusJOYED

[midwaybear]

oh wait...

[midwaybear]

really really really really really sorry
I did not think that was hammer
please forgive me

[midwaybear]

Vote: PlusJOYED

This is a vote right

[midwaybear]

I wasn't paying attention
that's totally on me
I really hope this hits scum. Really really sorry guys

[midwaybear]

no no no
I saw muffin's vote, but I didn't know it was the L-1 vote so I thought it was safe for me to vote plus...

[midwaybear]

That's when I realized that I actually hammered.

[midwaybear]

Seems similar to what you did after Alisae and after Plus hang
I probably shouldn't be talking right now though...

[midwaybear]

Same...

[midwaybear]

LOL

[midwaybear]

[midwaybear]

I think April should target between us or muffin candidly

Are you kidding me
no, not you in 1000 years

[midwaybear]

Nah I have ~reasons to believe it’s a real scumclaim

-innocentvillager

I wonder why...

[midwaybear]

I think overall this is pretty null on midway, esp if + is scum it's likely he was just not paying attention which isn't indicative to me.

I think I would be paying attention if it was my buddy. Hm not sure how I would have handled this one though. Probably the early D1 bus.

[midwaybear]

There's no way for sure to know that you are scum from that.

[midwaybear]

I bet April isn't going to be around tomorrow. Pretty obvious that you were just trying to set me up with Plus EoD. Was pretty sure that "suspicion" was just a bunch of garbo anyways.
Whatever, you can try to misclown me tomorrow but I really doubt you’ll get any traction.

[midwaybear]

Do you think 420 is scum with Plusjoyed?

I'm not sure. I might actually reread the thread tonight (for the first time ever) and I'll take a look at interactions and stuff. I do remember Plus was going for a 420 counterwagon, but I'm not sure what that tells me.
Hold up though because I gotta respond to ST.

[midwaybear]

Nope, you(at least IV) was clearly trying to turn the elim to me end of day with Plus. This is clear as day.

come to think of it, I think midway has played a little sus this day too

lol

theres been something a bit off about midway day 2 for me but I can't put my finger on it. I'll reread their iso soon

lol again, and I bet this never happened

can't quite put my finger on it tbh
i guess a big thing that didn't sit with me is I didn't see you claim your flavor

At this point, I'm just loling at how bad of an attempt this is. A big accusation is me not claiming flavor?! Hahaha darn. I expected better.

midway: gotten way scummier day 2 in my eyes.

And then we see IV start to chime in about "doubts" on me and potential wagon.

However, we do have this

I wrote it like today after the flip. Sorry I’m not really high efforting this game much.

-innocentvillager

NS thought you were going to die so you wrote that, but you wrote it after he flipped 10 minutes ago?

good catch
VOTE: Secret tunnel

What do you guys think? I am somewhat struggling to see this as a scum/scum interaction? Would love to be wrong though.

[midwaybear]

Secret Tunnels is a somewhat likely partner of Plus.

[midwaybear]

I have been doing so already. So are you fine with April visiting Secret Tunnels?

[midwaybear]

I'm expecting more shenanigans to happen tomorrow if April locks in a ST neighborize.

[midwaybear]

Well what Secret Tunnels said about being in the same PT with April is true. I just don't expect any conclusive results to occur tonight, but we'll see.

[midwaybear]

What? Not at all.
About setting me up, I mean that you were working together with Plus to make a wagon on me and that was what I was quoting.
Last quote makes me think though.

pedit: if if if if

[midwaybear]

Your alignment doesn't change though?

[midwaybear]

You’ve basically admitted it’s omgus because we tried to wagon you.

OMGUS works you know?

[midwaybear]

I don't want to hear that argument again thanks.

[midwaybear]

Pretty sure he's talking about the obvious fact that he himself is town.

[midwaybear]

umm
well Rem and Maid should be clear by interactions
420 needs to claim target yeah

[midwaybear]

I took a look at interactions last night and I find 3434 somewhat-highly questionable as an s/s interaction.

[midwaybear]

Yeah, I agree that this is a really weird look though so I could be wrong. In terms of interactions, maid looks pretty solid though.

[midwaybear]

morph literally townread Plus D1 I don't know what you're talking about.

[midwaybear]

Like I want to say it's midway-maid on account of how terrible of an idea it is to be clearing maid right now.

Yikes, it's not like we can even vote Maid so I don't take this approach as wolf with them

[midwaybear]

Yeah, that could just be because he knows the real reason behind Maid being in this state. It goes both ways. Anyways, I messed up the quote, but I'm pretty sure maid is town.

VOTE: Maid Cafe

whats up with saying im your only scumread then voting someone else?

I don't really think Plus chooses to stick up for his scumbuddy in such a manner because he doesn't seem like the way to tie himself to buddies like this especially with Maid under serious heat. Based on how he has posted, I don't think Plus is someone to take a particularly hard stance on a scumbuddy and he would rather put them in null zone which makes this quote somewhat of a strong anti-association for me.
This isn't really a good post in general from Plus, and it would be freaking crazy if he posted this with scum!maid.

[midwaybear]

They brought a meta read out of their hat and shoved it up joy’s nose.

What meta read?

[midwaybear]

I'd like to play out the day.

[midwaybear]

I'm a little confused here, but something seems weird right.

[midwaybear]

Not gonna lie Secret Tunnels doesn't look like scum to me anymore and this seems to fit in with whatever is going on.

[midwaybear]

I'm flip flopping first bell now you

[midwaybear]

interesting
as I show signs of re-evaluating, you go even further. Hm ok

[midwaybear]

Opportunistic for what

[midwaybear]

I just think this flip is very weird wrt your trajectory at the end of d2 end you still haven’t explained what I’ve done that’s made your read change

I wouldn't recommend reading me based on "trajectory". I bounce around a lot. I saw some posts that I thought wouldn't come from a scum ST, but now I think they are more NAI. Maybe I'll change my mind again later, but I'm definitely approaching things with more of an open mind. I'm trying to sort all of this out between April, morph, and muffin and trying to figure out this whole relation.
I also am thinking Bulge is most likely town even if April is scum.

[midwaybear]

420 is playing a bigger role in this game than one would originally expect.

[midwaybear]

I swear something crazy is going to happen again tomorrow.

[midwaybear]

Yeah I don't like that quote either. It does look like a discredit attempt now that you point it out. Seems similar to the point Rem made yesterday.

[midwaybear]

I think I'll wait for 420 to check in and then we can end the day. There isn't a need for no hang IMO

[midwaybear]

I was assuming the worst. I definitely wouldn't want to act like I didn't really care because I would feel pretty bad hammering a town Plus.

[midwaybear]

Can someone tell me why I’m wrong on the bear please because I’m trying not to tunnel but I don’t like their readflip

I don't think this readflip is as big as you thought. It's also basically my meta to bounce around like this so...
Not sure why you are so hung up on this.

[midwaybear]

I would like to let him know first before I hammer.

[midwaybear]

I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one hung up over you

You are though, especially based on whatever this "readflip" accusation is supposed to be.

[midwaybear]

420, you're just tunneled.

[midwaybear]

Tell me, what makes you uneasy about me changing my mind on you. What am I trying to accomplish with that?

[midwaybear]

No, you saying my post hammer posting makes no sense is a start of a tunnel.

[midwaybear]

What was the tinfoil?

[midwaybear]

Well it's becoming more and more likely that my read on Maid is wrong.

[midwaybear]

Is there confirmed scum between us?

[midwaybear]

Well I don't see why I should vote you

[midwaybear]

Bruh I thought you thought I was scum for my read flipping on you
What?!

[midwaybear]

It might just be Maid at this point along with someone else. I have time to figure out the buddy(or do I)

[midwaybear]

I still don't get why Bell is being townread.

[midwaybear]

Why the long face?

[midwaybear]

It looks somewhat bad for maid because I don't think we have 3 scum power roles. Maybe they just aren't detonating as town because they can't speak. That seems reasonable.

[midwaybear]

If they are town, they should be able to speak. Their detonate is a day action, so perhaps this roleblocker power also extends to the day and silences. Ok, that seems unlikely...
It's weird for them to be a mafia day commuter though...

[midwaybear]

That's why I said it looks bad for Maid right now.

[midwaybear]

This is sort of weird though because why would they decide to day commute as scum as opposed to just playing things out

[midwaybear]

Maybe

[midwaybear]

I was thinking "Road to Rome".
But yeah, why is morph ever targeted in this world where we currently are living in. There would be many better options in my opinion.

[midwaybear]

Not sure how to respond

[midwaybear]

Lol
Bell next. Secret Tunnels vote doesn’t look great either

[midwaybear]

I don't understand why you are townread by everyone this game. Now it's just suspicious

[midwaybear]

Maybe, but I will probably take a look at everyone later. He is probably just my preferred hang for today. I'm also not sure why Secret Tunnels is voting me, and April's vote is disappointing.
You do realize there's very little motive for scum to NK you right in a world where everything is normal? This seems important to me.

[midwaybear]

You're not obvious town and saying that doesn't do anything.
Thank

[midwaybear]

I think you are overestimating how much people townread you right now. I'm also not sure what you are trying to get at with "grumpy bear". As I have said before, it is totally normal.

[midwaybear]

Yeeeess

[midwaybear]

Darn

[midwaybear]

812 posts. Plz figure out if I'm town or not by this point. TY.

Take your own advice if YOU are town

[midwaybear]

I just wanna be conftown tbh

Yeah same...

[midwaybear]

Well I guess I won't have to wait too long for that to happen.

[midwaybear]

We’re gonna have a double death eventually, so no fade is just anti productive.

How do you know we will have a double death?

[midwaybear]

I don't think I will die.

[midwaybear]

How am I scummy?

[midwaybear]

What question did I ignore?

[midwaybear]

Why wouldn't 420 just let morph die?

[midwaybear]

I still think there's some fishy business because I really doubt morph would be nightkill. This could point to 420 scum, and that being a ploy for cred and gratitude. Need to think how April plays into that though.

[midwaybear]

I'm playing the exact same as I did on Day 1 and Day 2.

[midwaybear]

Well obviously

[midwaybear]

I haven't heard that before. The way I read people remains the same, but there are just more things to consider which I definitely think is being factored in.

[midwaybear]

lol "could" be

[midwaybear]

Alright, I have to tell you something...
very important

[midwaybear]

Oh, I don't have anything to say. I was just trying to waste your time, but I think it is better to just end the day.

[midwaybear]

I only self vote as scum.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: midwaybear