Micro 974: The Last of the Red-Horned Dung Beetles (Borked)

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i don't see the point of giving some1 the bug

only bad things can happen

let's just kill scummy people

VOTE: Norwee

Because he is such a good boi

[Smoke and Mirrors]

the way i'm reading the rules.

if we give the bug to a random person today, we have a 2/9 chance of losing on the spot.

However if we simply don't give the bug to anyone and all the sentries either guard or steal the bug, we either get a confirmed inno sentry tommorrow OR the bug remains safe cuz sentries protected the bug?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Those last posts were Pooky btw

<3 Norwee

[Smoke and Mirrors]

the way i'm reading the rules.

if we give the bug to a random person today, we have a 2/9 chance of losing on the spot.

However if we simply don't give the bug to anyone and all the sentries either guard or steal the bug, we either get a confirmed inno sentry tommorrow OR the bug remains safe cuz sentries protected the bug?

Well, it would obviously be a huge mistake to rush the HEAL vote in any case.

Spoiler:

Btw, I voluntarily asked for a posting gimmick in the Speakeasy, so if you see posts from me where I type like this: !!! and I mean literally like that and/or use lots of ridiculous hyperbole and sound like I’m high on Ecstasy, you’ll know why.

~Mirrors (or Nancy. Pooky is supposed to be “Smoke” btw) .

[Smoke and Mirrors]

this is a public hydra not a sneaky hidden one.

totally missed that sentry abilities are one-shot.

big yikes :3

still think it makes sense for us to not give the bug away and have sentries take it - gives us conf town and then doctors can protect the outted sentry who is holding the bug no?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

that was Pooky again :3

I think my plan makes more sense than randomly giving the bug to someone, which results in like 20%ish chance of instant loss

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I personally cannot believe Norwee made it to page 2 alive.

what is wrong with everyone?

:3

-Pooky

[Smoke and Mirrors]

oh holy fuck thats L-1. wow micros arent larges. weird.

VOTE: smoke and mirrors

i dont mind norwee as a fun RVS wagon, but this game feels like theres higher than normal chance of lolhammers due to mechanics.

there's no way to have someone be complete locktown so if we give the bug to any1 its a 22% chance of instaloss. if you're town then from your POV giving it to somebody else is actually a 25% chance of insta-loss.

If we don't give the bug to someone else and a sentry takes it, tommorrow we have a conftown player - the sentry with the bug, and the doctors can keep him alive for however much time as it takes for the scum to kill all our doctors.

When our doctors start dropping the other sentries can also start protecting the sentry with the bug.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

oh holy fuck thats L-1. wow micros arent larges. weird.

VOTE: smoke and mirrors

i dont mind norwee as a fun RVS wagon, but this game feels like theres higher than normal chance of lolhammers due to mechanics.

there's no way to have someone be complete locktown so if we give the bug to any1 its a 22% chance of instaloss. if you're town then from your POV giving it to somebody else is actually a 25% chance of insta-loss.

If we don't give the bug to someone else and a sentry takes it, tommorrow we have a conftown player - the sentry with the bug, and the doctors can keep him alive for however much time as it takes for the scum to kill all our doctors.

When our doctors start dropping the other sentries can also start protecting the sentry with the bug.

@Tayl0r, even if you don’t want to risk lolhammering Norwee, that still doesn’t explain your vote on us?

And Pooky/Smoke isn’t wrong, we give the bug to scum and it’s game over.

~Mirrors

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Rn, liking in no particular order: A Simple Plan, Tayl0r, Taly.

@Pooky, it’s possible that Norwee could still be town, so we shouldn’t rush an RvS wagon.

I’m willing to give the bug if I confidently tr one player enough and probably feel the best about A Simple Plan rn but it’s still too early but even if we do decide to execute Norwee, we still need time to assess if anyone is obvtown enough to take care of the bug.

However Tayl0r saying she’s never locktowned scum, what does that even mean @Tayl0r? Are you actually saying you locktown Norwee? If so, why?

He’s at best a null for me.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Rn, liking in no particular order: A Simple Plan, Tayl0r, Taly.

@Pooky, it’s possible that Norwee could still be town, so we shouldn’t rush an RvS wagon.

I’m willing to give the bug if I confidently tr one player enough and probably feel the best about A Simple Plan rn but it’s still too early but even if we do decide to execute Norwee, we still need time to assess if anyone is obvtown enough to take care of the bug.

However Tayl0r saying she’s never locktowned scum, what does that even mean @Tayl0r? Are you actually saying you locktown Norwee? If so, why?

He’s at best a null for me.

~M

NM, I think I misinterpreted Tayl0r’s post. The problem with what you’re saying @Tayl0r is that we could theoretically have an incorrect consensus tr. Please explain to me why that risk is greater than not giving anyone the bug. What do you think we’re misconstruing about the setup?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I am shocked that Norwee might survive to page 3

-Pooky

[Smoke and Mirrors]

HEAL: bugspray

I sense magic.

I'm not getting involved in mech talk unless I have to.

HURT: johnnyfarrar

Alright. I need to sleep on it. I'm a growing boy and can't stay awake much longer.

Yet, you don’t change your read in Bugs?

Why just Johnny?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Norwee, Nancy has assured me of your scummitude here and I know for sure she is town since I cheated and peeked at her role pm.

What do you have to say for yourself :3

-smoke

[Smoke and Mirrors]

one of the sentries will take the bug at night and become conf-town.

our doctors will keep this sentry safe from harm

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I am shocked that Norwee might survive to page 3

-Pooky

Don’t you think it’s odd that he got to E - 1 practically unopposed though?

Unless you have a slot that’s 99.9999% obvscum like D & D in CaD, I think we should be a little worried about that no? What is your read on Herta?

I think it’s kind of weird they heal both bugs and Johnny yet only unvote Johnny.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Norwee, Nancy has assured me of your scummitude here and I know for sure she is town since I cheated and peeked at her role pm.

What do you have to say for yourself :3

-smoke

Whoa, wait, I said that was my initial take but it wasn’t based on much.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Norwee, Nancy has assured me of your scummitude here and I know for sure she is town since I cheated and peeked at her role pm.

What do you have to say for yourself :3

-smoke

Whoa, wait, I said that was my initial take but it wasn’t based on much.

~M

I find it's best not to overthink things my dear :3

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Don’t you think it’s odd that he got to E - 1 practically unopposed though?

Unless you have a slot that’s 99.9999% obvscum like D & D in CaD, I think we should be a little worried about that no? What is your read on Herta?

I think it’s kind of weird they heal both bugs and Johnny yet only unvote Johnny.

~M

I am never worried about the swift hand of justice

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Idk, it must have been pretty obvious though.

it must've been something VERY scummy to get Nancy so certain ^_^

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Norwee, Nancy has assured me of your scummitude here and I know for sure she is town since I cheated and peeked at her role pm.

What do you have to say for yourself :3

-smoke

Whoa, wait, I said that was my initial take but it wasn’t based on much.

~M

I find it's best not to overthink things my dear :3

Do you tr Herta?

I don’t like that they’ve made votes and aren’t actually sorting.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Do you tr Herta?

I don’t like that they’ve made votes and aren’t actually sorting.

~M

Maybe we should keep our internal thoughts to the PT/Discord so the thread isn't just us talking to each other :3

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@mod the setup says all town have equal chance to be one of the three things, does that mean there's 2 of 2 and 3 of 1, or is there another town role?

The chances are independent. Each town player has a 1/3 chance of being each of the three roles, regardless of what the other town players are. So, any distribution is possible.

so this means the probability we do not have any sentries is about 5.8% - which is imo much better than the possibility that we give the bug to a scum.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Alright now.

HEAL: johnnyfarrar

HEAL: bugspray

I sense magic.

HURT: johnnyfarrar

Alright. I need to sleep on it. I'm a growing boy and can't stay awake much longer.

No execution vote. No one should be voting anyone other than themselves for caretaker this early.

VOTE: Herta

I think this is better.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm not getting involved in mech talk unless I have to.

This game is strongly based on mech, why wouldn’t you want to be involved in mech talk? Yet you’re still voting a caretaker but not an execution?

I think something is off about this. Anyone else think this?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@mod the setup says all town have equal chance to be one of the three things, does that mean there's 2 of 2 and 3 of 1, or is there another town role?

The chances are independent. Each town player has a 1/3 chance of being each of the three roles, regardless of what the other town players are. So, any distribution is possible.

so this means the probability we do not have any sentries is about 5.8% - which is imo much better than the possibility that we give the bug to a scum.

What? Town sentry steal does have higher priority than mafia steal, but if town doesn’t have any sentries mafia can just steal and win. They also have roleblocking ability.
This seems like pro-scum plan and highly risky.

I’m still really confused about the mech stuff but I don’t need to be clear on that to notice inconsistent reasoning, and any player voting for a caretaker other than themselves this early, who isn’t either doing any sorting or discussing mech is suspicious imo.

If you don’t want to talk about mech, you shouldn’t be voting for something that requires you actually need to have an opinion on it.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

the probability we give the bug to a mafia player is (2/9) = 22.22%

the probability we do not have a sentry is (2/3)^7 = 5.8%

I believe the sentry plan is way safer than the give the bug to somebody plan.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

the probability we give the bug to a mafia player is (2/9) = 22.22%

the probability we do not have a sentry is (2/3)^7 = 5.8%

I believe the sentry plan is way safer than the give the bug to somebody plan.

@Smoke please sign.

I don’t understand this yet but I don’t want to heal anyone unless I have a really confident read on them and I will get a much better idea about that based off their reads and whether they’re actually doing anything to help advance the game or not.

So obviously not confident on anything yet but of all of the players who’ve posted so far, I like Herta the least for the reasons I’ve already stated.

No clear attempt at game solving.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Remember the chance is 1/3 out of the 1/3 that role becomes sentry.

?

There are 7 town players, each of them have a (1/3) chance of rolling sentry - so our probability of not having a sentry is (2/3)^7 I'm not sure where the (1/3) (1/3) you cite comes from.


I think mechanically it's quite optimal to do it this way though for "fun factor" its probly more fun to give the bug to someone. If everyone would rather do the more fun option of giving the bug to someone I will not object :3

~Smoke

[Smoke and Mirrors]

All townies have an equal chance of being a Gardener, a Sentry, or a Surgeon.

Oh so each individual PR get's a 1/3 chance roll?
I thought it was a 1/3 roll to get randomly assigned the 1/3 roll.

ooh oops, are you like a townie or something :3

[Smoke and Mirrors]

like if you didn't get a PR I guess I just misread the rules >_>

~Smoke

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Are you fishing?

it's a pretty simple question :> are you a VT or a PR?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why would i tell you that?

You don't trust Pooky?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I am shocked and disappointed.

I will tell you if I am a PR if you tell me if you are a PR.

<3


Also I just wanted to remind everyone that if the town places 3 town-votes for the bug on a scum player, the scum can quick-steal the bug with 2 votes and win the game on the spot so please do not put anyone at Bug-2 without thinking very deeply about it and giving notice. Thanks

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I am shocked and disappointed.

I will tell you if I am a PR if you tell me if you are a PR.

<3


Also I just wanted to remind everyone that if the town places 3 town-votes for the bug on a scum player, the scum can quick-steal the bug with 2 votes and win the game on the spot so please do not put anyone at Bug-2 without thinking very deeply about it and giving notice. Thanks

Wow, I’m so glad you’re reading this, that makes me feel even better about our vote. One player self-votes and two more on the wrong player loses us the game. So bugs is entirely NAI for me but if they were to quickly get 3 votes and they already have two since I believe they self-voted and Herta basically decided to heal a slot that has absolutely done nothing whatsoever AI.

~Mirrors

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@mod the setup says all town have equal chance to be one of the three things, does that mean there's 2 of 2 and 3 of 1, or is there another town role?

The chances are independent. Each town player has a 1/3 chance of being each of the three roles, regardless of what the other town players are. So, any distribution is possible.

@Norwee, have you read this or not?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

The Rules:

1. All site rules apply.
2. Be nice. Mafia games can get heated but remember never to attack the person.
3. Play to your wincon.
4. Days are approximately 8 days long, nights are approximately 48 hours long.
5. Failure to post at least once every 48 hours will result in a prod. If you do not pick up your prod in 24 hours, or if I feel that your activity is low enough to be disrespectful to the other players, I will look for a replacement.
6. Please put votes in this format: VOTE: Something_Smart. Bolded votes are allowed (

Vote: Something_Smart

), but I'm more likely to miss them. In case you don't know, you can vote with:

Code: Select all

[v]Something_Smart[/v]

and unvote with

Code: Select all

[uv][/uv]

Unvotes are not necessary to change your vote.
In addition, to vote for a player to receive the Beetle, use the heal tags, like so: HEAL: Something_Smart.
7. No vote trickery. Votes inside spoiler tags and obviously broken quotes will not be counted. Don't attempt to confuse other players over whether your vote was valid.
8. If more than half the players are voting for a player, then that player is hammered and removed from the game, and the day will end. If the deadline is reached before a hammer occurs, the day will end without anyone dying.
9. If you have a question for me, put it in bold and say

@Mod

or

@Something_Smart

. If it's not something you want made public, feel free to shoot me a PM. If you need me in a pinch, you can reach me on Discord under

Something_Smart#8109

(and the worst under

Tom#4827

).
10.

This spooky shade of orange (#4F2200) is the mod color.

Do not use it. Do not impersonate me.
11. Do not discuss this game in any other thread except in PT's created specifically for this game. Do not discuss any other ongoing game in this thread.
12. Do not quote any out-of-thread communications with me or with any other player.
13. Do not post if you are dead.
14. Do not pretend to break any of these rules. Pretending to break a rule is punishable just as harshly as actually breaking it.
15. My word is law. Just because it is not stated here does not mean that it is acceptable. I am generally a nice person, and will give you a warning if you do something I don't approve of, but it's always better to ask than risk the consequences (see rule 9).
16. The mafia have daytalk and may request a Discord server if they so desire.
17. This is an open setup. The setup is as follows:

Spoiler: Setup

Breaking news! A live specimen of the Red-Horned Dung Beetle (Scarabaeus perplexia), once thought to be extinct, has been discovered deep in the African jungle. As far as we know, this is the only living Red-Horned Dung Beetle left in existence, and that has caught the attention of some... rather eccentric collectors, who seem to be abandoning scruples in an attempt to capture it.

The beetle was placed in the care of Dr. Zenkava of the University of Warsaw, but it seems there has been some grave news on this front. Dr. Zenkava was shot outside of the laboratory and is now in critical condition at Orłowskiego Hospital. We can only hope that Dr. Zenkava is able to recover quickly enough to identify the attacker, who is still at large. In the meantime, a new caretaker for the beetle must be found...

2 Mafia Goons

7 Townies

All townies have an equal chance of being a

Gardener

, a

Sentry

, or a

Surgeon

.

The

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

begins the game with no caretaker. During any day in which it has no caretaker, players may-- but do not have to-- make a majority vote to place the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

in the care of a player. If a Mafia member ever becomes the caretaker of the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

, the Mafia win immediately. (This means that any player receiving it is confirmed as town, if the game continues.) If the caretaker of the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

dies, it will revert to having no caretaker.

During the night, the players may take the following actions:

Mafia Goon

-- each night, one Mafia member may carry out the factional kill on a player of their choice.

Mafia Goon

-- each night, each Mafia member may attempt to steal the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

. This will only succeed if the Beetle has no caretaker at the time the action resolves; steals resolve after kills, so this can happen if the caretaker dies that night. If successful, the Mafia member will come into possession of the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

, and thus win the game.

Mafia Goon

-- once during the game, one Mafia member may roleblock a player, preventing them from taking any actions that night. This may be done at the same time as the above actions.

Town Gardener

-- each night, the Gardener may choose one of two options: either (1) target a player and learn whether or not that player has attempted to steal the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

on this night or any previous night; or (2) target a player and make them permanently unable to possess the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

(if they are voted to receive it, instead nothing will happen, and if they attempt to steal it the attempt will automatically fail).

Town Sentry

-- once per game, if not the caretaker of the Beetle, the Sentry may choose one of two options: either (1) defend the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

, preventing anyone from stealing it that night; or (2) attempt to steal the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

, becoming its new caretaker if successful (if the Beetle has a caretaker, this is only successful if the caretaker dies that night). Sentries have a higher steal priority than Mafia members; if multiple players of the same alignment make an unblocked attempt to steal the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

in the same night, one will succeed at random.

Town Sentry

-- once per game, if the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

has a caretaker, the Sentry may choose to guard that caretaker. If the caretaker would die at night, the Sentry dies instead. If multiple Sentries guard a player who is attacked, one dies at random. If the Sentry guards a player who is also healed by a Surgeon, the Sentry will still die.

Town Surgeon

-- each night, the Surgeon may choose one of two options: either (1) heal a player that they did not heal in the previous night, protecting them from death if they are not also a Surgeon; or (2) operate on Dr. Zenkava. If exactly one Surgeon operates on Dr. Zenkava, and that Surgeon survives the night and is not roleblocked, the operation will be a success, and any further operation attempts by that Surgeon will do nothing (but will not interfere with other Surgeons operating). If two successful operation attempts are made on Dr. Zenkava, the Doctor wakes up and is able to identify the attacker; the Mafia must choose one of their living members to be publicly revealed as Mafia at the start of the following day.

No players may self-target.

The

Town

wins when all Mafia members are dead.
The

Mafia

win when they control 50% of living players, or if a Mafia member is ever the caretaker of the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

.

Spoiler: Role PM's

Town Gardener

Welcome, XXXX, to Micro 974: The Last Of The Red-Horned Dung Beetles. Your role is

Town Gardener.

Each night, you may choose one of two options:

• Target another player and learn whether or not that player has attempted to steal the
  Red-Horned Dung Beetle
  on this night or any previous night; OR
  
• Target another player and make them permanently unable to gain possession of the
  Red-Horned Dung Beetle
  .

You win when all mafia members are dead and at least one town member remains alive.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and your win condition.
The game thread is here.

Town Sentry

Welcome, XXXX, to Micro 974: The Last Of The Red-Horned Dung Beetles. Your role is

Town Sentry.

Once per game, if you do not possess the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

, you may choose one of two options:

• Defend the
  Red-Horned Dung Beetle
  , preventing anyone from stealing it that night; OR
  
• Attempt to steal the
  Red-Horned Dung Beetle
  , becoming its new caretaker if successful (if the Beetle has a caretaker, this is only successful if the caretaker dies that night).

Additionally, once per game, if the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

has a caretaker other than you, you may use the following ability:

• Guard the Beetle's caretaker. If the caretaker would die at night, you will die instead.

You win when all mafia members are dead and at least one town member remains alive.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and your win condition.
The game thread is here.

Town Surgeon

Welcome, XXXX, to Micro 974: The Last Of The Red-Horned Dung Beetles. Your role is

Town Surgeon.

Each night, you may choose one of two options:

• Heal a player that you did not heal in the previous night, protecting them from death if they are not also a Surgeon; OR
  
• Operate on Dr. Zenkava. If exactly one Surgeon operates on Dr. Zenkava, and that Surgeon survives the night and is not roleblocked, the operation will be a success, and any further operation attempts by that Surgeon will do nothing. If two successful operation attempts are made on Dr. Zenkava, the Doctor wakes up and is able to identify the attacker; the Mafia must choose one of their living members to be publicly revealed as Mafia at the start of the following day.

You win when all mafia members are dead and at least one town member remains alive.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and your win condition.
The game thread is here.

Mafia Goon

Welcome, XXXX, to Micro 974: The Last Of The Red-Horned Dung Beetles. Your role is

Mafia Goon.

Your partner is YYYY. You have a private topic (link) that you may talk in at any time.

You have the following powers:

• Factional kill: Each night, one of your members may carry out the factional kill on a player of your choice.
  
• Steal: Each night, you may attempt to steal the
  Red-Horned Dung Beetle
  . This will only succeed if the Beetle has no caretaker at the time the action resolves; steals resolve after kills, so this can happen if the caretaker dies that night. If successful, you will come into possession of the
  Red-Horned Dung Beetle
  , and thus win the game.
  
• Factional roleblock: once during the game, one of your members may roleblock a player, preventing them from taking any actions that night. This may be done at the same time as the above actions.

You win when the mafia control 50% of the town or when a mafia member possesses the

Red-Horned Dung Beetle

.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and your win condition.
The game thread is here.

Spoiler: Action Resolution Order

1. Mafia

   Roleblock
   
   
2. Gardener

   Prevent
   
   
3. Sentry

   Defend
   
   
4. Sentry

   Guard
   
   
5. Surgeon

   Heal
   
   
6. Mafia

   Kill
   
   
7. Sentry

   Steal
   
   
8. Mafia

   Steal
   
   
9. Gardener

   Investigate
   
   
10. Surgeon

    Operate

So according to this, all towns are PRs.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

yea i kind of view your opinion that there are VTs in this setup as a scumslip but Nancy disagrees :3 I was trying to get you to slip that you were a VT to hammer it home but she is too nice :>

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why would i tell you that?

Is this real? I genuinely can't tell

He’s either scum exhibiting massive chutzpah or he just dumbtold.

I’m leaning on it being a dumbtell because Pooky didn’t ask him WHICH PR only whether or not he was one or not, so why wouldn’t scum!Norwee just answer PR to that?

I don’t want to town bin him solely based on this but it’s a weird strategy if he’s scum.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I pretty much understand my PM.

Here's how I think the roles are in terms of power level:

Sentries - imo the strongest PR. Town sentries have the ability to conf-town themselves by stealing the bug in the nightphase. Ideally we have only 1 or 2 sentries steal but since we don't know how many sentries we have I think it makes sense to just have them all steal. The sentries that do not steal the bug can use their bodyguard ability to save the sentry that has the bug, but only if all our doctors are gone. Now there is a doctor restriction in that doctors cannot protect the same person twice so we will need to split up our doctors.

Doctors - pretty strong PR that has a partial cop or a save ability.

One method to split doctors would be separate the game into group (A) and group (B) and alternate night actions between the two doctor groups such that if you are in Group (A) and a doctor you protect on odd nights and if you are in Group (B) and a doctor you protect on even nights. When you are not protecting I guess you can try to revive Doctor Z or whatever. This makes it fairly difficult for scum to guess whether they can safely nightkill the sentry. Another way would be to just have every doctor in the game flip a coin at night, heads you protect, tails you don't etc.


Gardener - I'm not sure what to do about the gardeners - I think it might be a good idea to have the gardeners make sure that all players cannot "steal" the bug as that would essentially eliminate a mafia win condition - remember it doesn't give the town a bonus for a town to have the bug, but if nobody can have the bug, the mafia cannot use the bug as a win con.

~Smoke

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So like, these roles are all pretty unique and without significant precedent for me. When I saw my PM I came to the thread and read up on the setup. I think scum have it easier setup wise, and are thereby less likely to have read the setup.

P:edit i man did you also skin your pm? Because I borderline didn't understand mine

I think you’re possibly town from this because after reading all of the roles, you not understanding your role pm possibly points to you being one of the three since the scums’ roles seem a lot less complicated.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

there's a pretty obv problem with your plan.

let's say we have 3 gardeners:

A
B
C

and we assign them to "prevent" 1, 2, 3. respectively.

Then we use the bug to check 1, 2, 3.

You are right in that if 1,2,3 are all unable to take the bug, that A,B,C will be like ICs and confirmed innocent.

However if one of the players (1,2,3) is mafia, they can roleblock the gardener assigned to that person, get the bug and win the game.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Treestumps don't appear in the VCA, because they aren't viable targets for elimination. The same should happen here by the rules.

That's literally not what happens tho. according to the public info for a gardener - the last line:

(if they are voted to receive it, instead nothing will happen, and if they attempt to steal it the attempt will automatically fail).

implies that those unable to possess the bug can still be voted to receive it - hence you would need to actually vote them the bug to test it out.

I am revealing it because I don't want to lose when you do your plan and the mafia take this fairly obvious countermeasure and insta-win.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

"if they are voted to receive it" implies that they can be voted to receive it, the result however would be nothing.

if our goal was to make all people unable to receive the bug we would not really need gardeners to claim, they could just go around clearing in a circular pattern or something like that - for example on N1 we could just ask all gardeners to disable the name below them on the playerlist to gurantee no target repeats.

imo the most important use of a gardener is to eat a bullet for one of the 2 more powerful PRs as doctors can actually generate positive gain and sentries can prevent the mafia from taking the bug.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i haven't contacted the mod

i believe it's a fairly common sense reading of the rules.

You're being pretty ridiculous :3

btw all of these posts are Pooky.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

no because if the gardeners reveal it shows the mafia where the more valuable sentries/doctors are and they can target them for NKs.

I did not "ruin" your plan, I stated the glaring hole in it because if I can think of it, the mafia probably can think of it and I'd rather not lose right away.

a better way to coordinate gardener actions is to just take the player list and tell every player to "prevent" the player below them on the list if they are a gardener.

It would do the same thing as your plan except it wouldn't out all our gardeners on d1.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think Bunno is pretty town because he thought of this plan which requires a lot of enthusiasm and gusto, I don't think it's very easy for scum!bunno to fake so much enthusiasm. He also really believe that Gardener is super good which makes sense if he is a gardener.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

HURT: johnnyfarrar

Alright. I need to sleep on it. I'm a growing boy and can't stay awake much longer.

Wrong person.

Hurt: bugspray

You know this doesn’t actually do anything, right?

You’re STILL HEALing bugspray.

And you even quoted the post where you did the “hurt” correctly,


~Mirrors

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I feel this game deadline is a bit too short/playerlist is too low-activity to let things develop later.

In that case, I probably should begin explaining how to win this game now...

The first thing we should do, is to have all gardeners claim. Only the gardeners though.

As long as you lock Gardeners actions, it's very simply to verify in the next days if their claim is genuine or not, making them either conftown or guilted mafia. Gardeners have the ability to make people unable to receive the bug, and if they are voted, as the mod says, "nothing will happen", therefore it's

impossible

to fakeclaim

Gardener

as long as you lock their targets so that they can't claim the same target later.

That means if we create the right circumstances, every gardener is going to turn into an innocent child by Day 2. Even if mafia roleblocks one of them, they can only roleblock once per game, therefore

by Day 3 at most we have as many innocent childs as we have gardeners

. In case mafia fakeclaims gardener, they're going to be outted by day 3 at maximum.

Since Gardeners are going to be able to confirm themselves, and we're going to lock their targets, it also means they'll not block each other and are gonna be able to safely hold the bug.

Gardeners are the ultimate role in this setup, make no mistake. Sentries only allow gardeners potential to shine, and surgeons are pretty weak all considered.

All gardeners should claim now, be locked into targets, and turn into innocent childs by D2 or D3.

Depending on how many gardeners there is, this is an auto-win. If there's not many, I'll explain what to do considering the optimal plan.

Hi, I’m probably slow here but can you explain again how only gardeners can confirm themselves and why them claiming is optimal? Thanks.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Norwee, Nancy has assured me of your scummitude here and I know for sure she is town since I cheated and peeked at her role pm.

What do you have to say for yourself :3

-smoke

Whoa, wait, I said that was my initial take but it wasn’t based on much.

~M

I find it's best not to overthink things my dear :3

Do you tr Herta?

I don’t like that they’ve made votes and aren’t actually sorting.

~M

Hey wait. What do you want through post 27 a complete solve?

People vote in rvs? Did I miss a memo?

You didn’t vote though, you HEALed.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Alright now.

HEAL: johnnyfarrar

HEAL: bugspray

I sense magic.

HURT: johnnyfarrar

Alright. I need to sleep on it. I'm a growing boy and can't stay awake much longer.

No execution vote. No one should be voting anyone other than themselves for caretaker this early.

VOTE: Herta

I think this is better.

~M

Okay, so I didn't make an execution vote, but where's your Taly push?

Our “Taly” push? He voted and didn’t HEAL anyone, so I don’t even get your point?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: tay she looks towny but i think it loks more like scum looking like town than actual town

VOTE: bugspray

Aerosol confusion.

What does this even mean?

@bugs, why is Tayl0r scummy? I don’t understand the reasoning for your voting her.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Treestumps don't appear in the VCA, because they aren't viable targets for elimination. The same should happen here by the rules.

That's literally not what happens tho. according to the public info for a gardener - the last line:

(if they are voted to receive it, instead nothing will happen, and if they attempt to steal it the attempt will automatically fail).

implies that those unable to possess the bug can still be voted to receive it - hence you would need to actually vote them the bug to test it out.

I am revealing it because I don't want to lose when you do your plan and the mafia take this fairly obvious countermeasure and insta-win.

I had already noticed that, and I was using it to my advantage

That's the difference between me and you, I don't only use truths, I use lies as well even as town, and we should all claim garderer or not before someone confirms with the mod how it works.

I think poorly of you slot right now btw

Well that not only sad but wrong, I’m just trying to understand the value of gardeners claiming.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

That's literally not what happens tho. according to the public info for a gardener - the last line:

(if they are voted to receive it, instead nothing will happen, and if they attempt to steal it the attempt will automatically fai

"if they are voted to receive it, nothing will happen"

It's unclear how it would go, and I still beat that they aren't viable targets just as treestumps aren't able to be voted.

Either way though, even if we cannot confirm every garderer as town, it's still to our advantage to lock their targets so that we have the majority of the playerlist unable to steal the bugs. It eliminates one alternative wincon by mafia and it also risks them using their roleblock for a chance of receiving the bug.

Okay, I’m really confused rn, are you referring to scum CCing the gardeners?

Don’t gardeners put themselves at risk for being NK’d if they claim?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

All of you are extremely scummy trying to buy time to verify with the mod how it works tbh

Why is that scummy? I’m not following?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

"if they are voted to receive it" implies that they can be voted to receive it, the result however would be nothing.

if our goal was to make all people unable to receive the bug we would not really need gardeners to claim, they could just go around clearing in a circular pattern or something like that - for example on N1 we could just ask all gardeners to disable the name below them on the playerlist to gurantee no target repeats.

imo the most important use of a gardener is to eat a bullet for one of the 2 more powerful PRs as doctors can actually generate positive gain and sentries can prevent the mafia from taking the bug.

It's very enlightining that you're still talking to me when the mod is here

You seen to want to deny it before there's any proof, which indicates you either already contacted the mod in private or you don't want this method to be true.

Very enlightning.

He wants it to be CLEAR. I’d really like to hear Johnny and Taly weigh in on the whole gardener claim thing. I would also like to hear A Simple Plan’s thoughts on this as well. That fact that you’re implying that everyone who isn’t insta getting this is scummy isn’t very helpful.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: unheal bugspray

No, you need to use the HURT tag.

[ HURT ] bugspray [ / HURT ]

Like that, minus all the spaces.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

haha, actually i dont regret the previous post.

VOTE: bugspray

your posts feel disingenuous, its a little awkward that you say

tay

is scum trying to look towny 77 when she was the only person other than you who voted for yourself 9 23

your reply to

norwee

about it is very vague 94, so it feels like your position is more of a doubt you want to throw out rather than commit a stance to, interesting timing since

tay

is a competitor for you to get the beetle, right?

this is odd because when i wanted you to explain your self-vote, you gave the "easy, well, im town so i dont have to explain myself 105" even after i reiterated my question

my last post to you 106 i think was one i wanted full engagement on, but here youre more focused on stating reasons

brunno

is scum 184

i get this may be your playstyle, but since im not acquainted with it, your suspicion reads as noncommittal to your benefit.

where was the excitement with the

herta

vote? 134

i got questions,

bug

Well, this read quite salty (better wording had I been more cognizant), and definitely could've waited until after a

Tay

interaction. Oh well.
_____

yo

tay

, if you think statistics aren't helpful, then provide commentary on something you think is.

also, the same question I had given

bug

applies to you. Why vote yourself to get the beetle?

Yeah their reasoning for their Tayl0r vote vote makes 0 sense and they then voted a claimed gardener, so not impressed with that slot.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i think the team is whoever im voting forget their names and then the hydra

You scumread the two slots who are most actively trying to solve the game based on what? Why is our slot scummy according to you?

And Bunno hardclaimed gardener, are you conveniently forgetting that?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I’m currently disliking Herta and bugs the least rn. No one else is currently pinging mr.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I’m currently disliking Herta and bugs the MOST rn. No one else is currently pinging mr.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Smoke is telling me that what bugs is doing isn’t AI but I don’t have any experience playing with them. All is glaringly obvious to me is that their reads, votes, etc. make no sense. Beyond that idk.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Alright now.

HEAL: johnnyfarrar

HEAL: bugspray

I sense magic.

HURT: johnnyfarrar

Alright. I need to sleep on it. I'm a growing boy and can't stay awake much longer.

No execution vote. No one should be voting anyone other than themselves for caretaker this early.

VOTE: Herta

I think this is better.

~M

Okay, so I didn't make an execution vote, but where's your Taly push?

Our “Taly” push?

He voted and didn’t HEAL anyone, so I don’t even get your point

?

~M

@Herta, please explain this, why did you say we should be pushing Taly?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Taly, @Johnny, @Tayl0r, @A Simple Plan, @Norwee, what do you think about Bunno wanting a mass gardener claim?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Taly, @Johnny, @Tayl0r, @A Simple Plan, @Norwee, what do you think about Bunno wanting a mass gardener claim?

~M

If I’m understanding it right.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Woop this went fast. I skimmed but I'll catch up when I get home. I'm not a gardener?

Pedit: @M I think it's fun and they're clearly up to something so if like to see where it goes

So, you think all gardeners should claim then?

Like, I think him claiming gardener is highly town indicative but I don’t understand the setup well enough to agree with his reasoning on it.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm gonna dive into things a lot more thoroughly after my shift tomorrow, but a few thoughts based on a skim:

-Did Tayl0r ever explain the S&M vote from page two? I get E-1 isn't ideal on page two, but what's the reasoning to not just unvote?

-The mass Gardener claim doesn't sound like a good idea because, while giving us an idea of what to work with, it gives scum extra information about the setup to plan their night actions based on the number we get. It's naturally more scum-sided to give up more info than necessary.

Yeah, that’s kind of what I was thinking too.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VC 1.3

Herta (2)- A Simple Plan, Smoke and Mirrors
bugspray (2)- Herta, Taly
Smoke and Mirrors (1)- Tayl0r Swift
Bunno (1)- bugspray

Not voting (3)- NorwegianboyEE, Bunno, JohnnyFarrar

With 9 alive it takes 5 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-23 19:00:00)

Mod notes:

Beetle Status

The Red-Horned Dung Beetle has

no caretaker.

bugspray (1)- bugspray
JohnnyFarrar (1)- Taly
Tayl0r Swift (1)- Tayl0r Swift

Not voting (6)- Smoke and Mirrors, NorwegianboyEE, Bunno, JohnnyFarrar, A Simple Plan, Herta

Of the 3 HEAL votes, I’m still not confident on it but if a HEAL is what’s best than I think I’m probably okay giving it to Johnny.

@mod, a HEAL require 3 votes to make that person caretaker, correct?

However, we still have 6 days.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

COME ON
psuh bunno and get the free scum d1 elim and then we just need the doctors to operate and its a free win d2

also give me the bug because i'm towen

Because you say so? You can’t even read our slot correctly.

Why does scum!bunno claim gardener but I definitely trust ASP > bunno.

Actually,

HEAL: JohnnyFarrar

I wanted to wait with this but you’re making me extremely nervous with this.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don’t like how insistent they are about getting the bug and they’re not giving reasons for anything. I’m also really suspicious that bugs is pushing an execution on a claimed PR.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i sr pooky on an unexplainable brain worm meta vibe check

Lolwut?

Are you not reading any of MY posts? Hello, we’re a hydra.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm gonna dive into things a lot more thoroughly after my shift tomorrow, but a few thoughts based on a skim:

-Did Tayl0r ever explain the S&M vote from page two? I get E-1 isn't ideal on page two, but what's the reasoning to not just unvote?

-The mass Gardener claim doesn't sound like a good idea because, while giving us an idea of what to work with, it gives scum extra information about the setup to plan their night actions based on the number we get. It's naturally more scum-sided to give up more info than necessary.

If we successfully get a townie the bug this day this becomes decently easy.

I think everyone should claim gardener / no gardener

i need to re read that post about why gardeners should actually claim but i dont think it really explaind it in a way that is logically following

@Johnny, can you please explain this better than bunno, because I still don’t understand it? Thanks.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Town Gardener

Welcome, XXXX, to Micro 974: The Last Of The Red-Horned Dung Beetles. Your role is

Town Gardener.

Each night, you may choose one of two options:

• Target another player and learn whether or not that player has attempted to steal the
  Red-Horned Dung Beetle
  on this night or any previous night; OR
  
• Target another player and make them permanently unable to gain possession of the
  Red-Horned Dung Beetle
  .

You win when all mafia members are dead and at least one town member remains alive.

Please respond to this PM indicating you understand your role and your win condition.
The game thread is here.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@SS

Are we informed if we get roleblocked at night?

~Smoke

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@SS

Are we informed if we get roleblocked at night?

~Smoke

You need to bold all mod questions.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@SS

Are we informed if we get roleblocked at night?

~Smoke

You need to bold all mod questions.

~M

THIS is the sticking point for me.

If gardeners can get roleblocked, because that is obviously not good. Because if scum has that ability they will probably use it on one of the gardeners. However, even if they’re not given targets, scum could hypothetically figure out who to roleblock based on their reads.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

bunno is so scummy how do yall not feel this vibe tht im checking

A) He claimed gardener and B) he said he didn’t want anymore claiming, so what exactly is scummy about any of that?

~Mirrors

[Smoke and Mirrors]

why not just give the beetle to me and then i dont claim?

why not just give the beetle to me and then i dont claim?

I see, you've problem reading things to understand why there's a natural 33% chance of losing in the long-run by giving the bug to someone without them having claimed

if you claim by the way I'm gonna scum read you because there's no reason for you to claim other than try to receive the bug, and I already don't like your slot.

+1

@bugspray

How ‘bout NO!

You’re probably one of the last slots I want to get the beetle.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Electing a certain claimed Gardener to receive the beetle today :' ) hahahahahaa

mmmmmmmmm, but that means we have to confidently townread you, and I don't think it's improbable that you're scum trying to convince others to give you the beetle.

You're giving off mass

kittybell

vibes.

p-edit

278

No, I did not just claim for no reason. Unless

Johnny

explicitly has a problem with the lover's plan or I see another potential course of action, I'm fine abiding by it.

p-edit again

why not just give the beetle to me and then i dont claim?

you haven't addressed my earlier post regarding my vote, do you plan to?

p-edit again FFS

meh im just not adding further input

Seriously, you think Bunno is RC?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

bunno is so scummy how do yall not feel this vibe tht im checking

trouble following bunno

smoke & mirrors is scummy tho

I’m still waiting for you to answer my Taly question, so not impressed with this deflection.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I see

Bunno's

POV. We reduce the likelihood of a late-game

Mafia

win via bug-catch if

Gardener's

openly voiced their target (and it can functionally protect the Sentry/Doctor pool from NK), but I don't think he's seeing the value of claiming anymore?

I doubt half the players even looked at this thread between the time

Bunnos

suggested the claim 129 and now 171 (I didn't).

Anyway, I don't think reading the past 2 pages have helped me read any slots better.

Bunno

, let's reel this in. What is ONE non-mechanic based take you have?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Awfully

bold

of you to use my own syntax and wit against me. You are a formidable specimen.

In any case, I assume your HURT: tags are a pseudovote. Correct me as needed.

Part of your course of action in reply to a wagon on you (with the reason of your lack of vote) is to push someone else who was questioned (

bugspray

). Why?

AHA

!

We shall spar.

You've probably figured it out by now, but the HURT: tags were an attempt to unheal, but that has been cleared up by the bod, which

Smoke & Mirrors tried to scummily subvert

by getting me to reclaim the HURT: tags.

The vote for bugsy was because of the ambiguous nature of their question and because they immediately tried to snag the bug. Even though I had voted to heal bugsy, that was more because I like the yellow tags and didn't understand the mechanic than because I wanted a known

exterminator

to have the bug.

No, I actually misunderstood because I hadn’t read what SS said and that’s usually how it’s done.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

if you claim by the way I'm gonna scum read you because there's no reason for you to claim other than try to receive the bug, and I already don't like your slot.

i don't care about what caught scum thinks of my slot

Um hello, how is he “caught scum” exactly other than the fact that you keep trying to shove that down our throats?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Bunno u acting kinda sus ngl.

Because he’s scumreading you?

Smoke thinks it’s you/bugs ftr.

And this post is making me think that’s definitely possible.

Not thrilled how you suddenly just jumped on that.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Bunno doing the good old strat of screaming until town is forcibly stringed along.

Why are both you and bugs literally (*waves to Hoopla* - see am not ignoring the gimmick) ignoring his gardener claim?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If both Norwe/Bugs are town I'm ok with self-voting.

I think I've said it twice but I've only found one of the examples. Anyway how it went:

viewtopic.php?p=11753085#p11753085 - Doubles Mafia

If Cakez in Halloween/

BBMolla

in xmas doesn't win the game you can vote me in D4 and I'll not bitch about it.

Wanna have fun BBMolla?

Let's venge-lynch each other.

If you're so confident that I'm scum as you've been in more than 200 pages, you can surely do this with me.

Your best shot at lynching me here is actually agreeing to venge kill each other.

As long as you self-vote today, I'm going to self-vote for the rest of the game if you flip town.

Result:

The Town of

Trojan Horses
We are not helping
Titus
Eve
gobbledygook
jjh

churros

< (I was town)
farside22
northsidegal
Wonderwalll
Vecna
Nero Cain
Baezu
SirCakez

Is victorious!

(quote note: BBMolla isn't in the list)

BBMolla was scum, not reading my posts, and saying I was caught scum as well.

I feel the same vibe from bug/norwe, maybe one but probably not both town.

Oh lol, now I remember you from BP and Doubles.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Norwee, Nancy has assured me of your scummitude here and I know for sure she is town since I cheated and peeked at her role pm.

What do you have to say for yourself :3

-smoke

Whoa, wait, I said that was my initial take but it wasn’t based on much.

~M

I find it's best not to overthink things my dear :3

Do you tr Herta?

I don’t like that they’ve made votes and aren’t actually sorting.

~M

Hey wait. What do you want through post 27 a complete solve?

People vote in rvs? Did I miss a memo?

You didn’t vote though, you HEALed.

~M

Why did you say I voted?

I meant that you HEALED obviously but didn’t vote which didn’t make sense to me regarding the mechanics but now, there’s two slots who seem to weirdly tag teaming, so I’m thinking I might change my vote.

But if you actually did misinterpret my posts that way - which I’m not sure of yet - it would explain your Taly push question.

What is your current take on bugs/Norwee seeming to tagteam Bunno?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: unheal bugspray

No, you need to use the HURT tag.

[ HURT ] bugspray [ / HURT ]

Like that, minus all the spaces.

~M

This is super scummy coming after this

@mod To be clear is that the way to remove a heal?

To remove a heal use HEAL: nobody or UNVOTE: heal XXX. Sorry for not making that clear.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

That’s a really horrible reason for voting us btw but it’s also possible you’re bad town doing this?

This wasn’t a great move since I was considering unvoting you. Hmmmm . . .

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

COME ON
psuh bunno and get the free scum d1 elim and then we just need the doctors to operate and its a free win d2

also give me the bug because i'm towen

Because you say so? You can’t even read our slot correctly.

Why does scum!bunno claim gardener but I definitely trust ASP > bunno.

Actually,

HEAL: JohnnyFarrar

I wanted to wait with this but you’re making me extremely nervous with this.

~M

You want to give the bug to someone you're unsure of?

The only slot I’m 100% sure of is obviously ours but Johnny is currently one of my strongest townreads.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I kinda like the fact Herta is reading the game and commenting on it in his own pace rather than trying to make comments on people overall posting.

Properly reading the game is a rare trait here. You've gotta to appreciate it when you see it.

Do you think he’s scum?

I’m trying to decide between him, bugs and Norwee and I’m kind of getting buddy vibes from bugs/Norwee unless one of them is a pocket? I think there’s probably at least one if not both scum in those two. Otoh, Herta’s reason for voting us is horrible.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

that's what is weird though, I expected nancy to do more...nancy things.

this isn't bad mouthing by the way

it's just that I don't remember ever seeing a nancy's alt and not immediatelly thinking "ah it's nancy" after 5 pages or so.

I don't feel Nancy usual posting here at all though. If you said Mirror was someone else I would nod my head.

What do you think my “usual” posting is? How am I posting differently here than in BP and Doubles?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Nancy

, it has been confirmed that

Bunno=Churros

, we were in another game together.

I was alluding to

kittybell's

performance in

Gameshow Mafia

where I THINK he won as mafia and pulled-one over me?

A lot of your individual posting reads as stream-of-conscious replies as you skim, it feels a bit shallow to focus on all of that as a way to sort your hydra.

What is a mech or gamesolve read that you and

Pooky

agree on?

He thinks it’s Norwee/bugs and rn I think that’s definitely possible. Herta is so bad though but he could still be town.

We both strongly tr Bunno. He hasn’t really commented on anyone else.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Also

Johnny

, I'm not avoiding you.

I just don't think my input on your perspective of me right now will help you sort me any better, LOL

Why did you unheal Johnny?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VC 1.4

Herta (2)- A Simple Plan, Smoke and Mirrors
Smoke and Mirrors (2)- Tayl0r Swift, Herta

Bunno (2)- bugspray, NorwegianboyEE

bugspray (1)- Taly
NorwegianboyEE (1)- Bunno

Not voting (1)- JohnnyFarrar

With 9 alive it takes 5 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-23 19:00:00)

Mod notes: Bunno V/LA weekends

Beetle Status

The Red-Horned Dung Beetle has

no caretaker.

bugspray (1)- bugspray
JohnnyFarrar (1)- Smoke and Mirrors
Tayl0r Swift (1)- Tayl0r Swift
Bunno (1)- Bunno

Not voting (5)- NorwegianboyEE, JohnnyFarrar, A Simple Plan, Herta, Taly

Would both scum be voting the same wagon back to back?

@Herta, if you’re actually town here, please actually read the game and get out of your bizarro bubble.

The Bunno wagon is obviously bad and that’s where your suspicions should be focused on imo.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@mod can you HEAL more than one player at a time?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

The plan is me not getting the bug

I don’t think you’re scum so I’m fine with my HEAL on you but I have to choose between who is most likely to get 5 votes.

My current PoE is bugs/Norwee/Herta in no particular order and Herta’s vote on us is really bonkers. I know Tayl0r never explained her vote on us but my take was because Smoke waq strongly pushing Norwee att which may not have been wrong?

But I don’t know if both scum would be voting back to back like that and make it that obvious but I shouldn’t let wifom too strongly influence me? But I think probably one scum in Norwee/ bugs. I was going to unvote Herta but then he voted us for really silly reasons, so I now want to see what he thinks of the Bunno wagon.

I think it’s definitely possible Herta could be scum with either Norwee/bugs if one of the two is town and especially the timing of his vote on us is particularly concerning, as if he’s trying to draw attention away from the suspicious behaviour of Norwee/bugs. So my current best guess for scum rn is between those three. I will be legit shocked if there isn’t at least one scum amongst them.

Why does he suddenly vote us when Bunno is hardpushing Norwee/bugs? That’s pinging tf out of me.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@mod can you HEAL more than one player at a time?

No. Caretaker votes work just like execution votes.

Oh so if I HEALed Bunno, it would cancel my HEAL on Johnny.

@Taly, I think Johnny saying he has trouble understanding his role pm is highly town indicative. I’m also okay with HEALing Bunno. I think you’re likely town as well but I don’t understand how you think I’m posting here anything like I did in MD though. I think my posting here is a lot closer to Gameshow.

I still would really like to know what Bunno thinks I’m not doing what I usually do? I think it’s pretty freaking obvious this is my obvtown game here to anyone familiar with my meta, so I’m really perplexed by that.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So like, these roles are all pretty unique and without significant precedent for me. When I saw my PM I came to the thread and read up on the setup. I think scum have it easier setup wise, and are thereby less likely to have read the setup.

P:edit i man did you also skin your pm? Because

I borderline didn't understand mine

@Taly

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So like, these roles are all pretty unique and without significant precedent for me. When I saw my PM I came to the thread and read up on the setup. I think scum have it easier setup wise, and are thereby less likely to have read the setup.

P:edit i man did you also skin your pm? Because

I borderline didn't understand mine

@Taly

~M btw

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So, who do you think we should HEAL then? Bunno? You guys are my top 3 towns.

HEAL: Bunno

Definitely don’t want to give it to bugs.

~Mirrors

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Smoke and Mirrors is playing very badly here.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I see

Bunno's

POV. We reduce the likelihood of a late-game

Mafia

win via bug-catch if

Gardener's

openly voiced their target (and it can functionally protect the Sentry/Doctor pool from NK), but I don't think he's seeing the value of claiming anymore?

I doubt half the players even looked at this thread between the time

Bunnos

suggested the claim 129 and now 171 (I didn't).

Anyway, I don't think reading the past 2 pages have helped me read any slots better.

Bunno

, let's reel this in. What is ONE non-mechanic based take you have?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Awfully

bold

of you to use my own syntax and wit against me. You are a formidable specimen.

In any case, I assume your HURT: tags are a pseudovote. Correct me as needed.

Part of your course of action in reply to a wagon on you (with the reason of your lack of vote) is to push someone else who was questioned (

bugspray

). Why?

AHA

!

We shall spar.

You've probably figured it out by now, but the HURT: tags were an attempt to unheal, but that has been cleared up by the bod, which

Smoke & Mirrors tried to scummily subvert

by getting me to reclaim the HURT: tags.

The vote for bugsy was because of the ambiguous nature of their question and because they immediately tried to snag the bug. Even though I had voted to heal bugsy, that was more because I like the yellow tags and didn't understand the mechanic than because I wanted a known

exterminator

to have the bug.

No, I actually misunderstood because I hadn’t read what SS said and that’s usually how it’s done

.

~M

@Herta

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Actually

VOTE: Norwe

I dunno if bug is scum or just weird, but norwe is sus atm.

It's not the main reason, but notice how he says he's curious about my mech solve, but when we begin discussing it he just vanishes. He was posting elsewhere meanwhile by the way.

I doubt that if he was really curious he wouldn't read and comment on it a bit later, he was online multiple times since that post.

Norwe's opening is intense asking around simple mechanical questions. I feel like that's a likely scum!Norwe opening.

He was

intensely

posting elsewhere during that time by the way.

I've a hard time believing that he would vanish and not look back on this later (he was online at least 3 times by now).

I suspected norwe of being scum (rightfully) in the first 10 pages of our most recent game

I got sidetracked and ended up keeping it as a pet scum read during the game, but I did notice early something wrong with Norwe's slot.

I'm noticing the same thing here, so if I'm wrong I want him to come around and show me.

I town read bunno but I hate looking at other activity to gauge alignment

. It's scummy.

You tr Bunno but your strongest sr is a player HEALing them but not a player on his wagon?

Please explain that.

Why is my not reading SS’ post scummier to you than a player trying to push through an execution on a claimed gardener?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I suppose I could just wait and see on Taly too for the same reasons.

My two biggest question marks here are Herta and T Swift

Yeah, we need to hear more from Tayl0r.

If Norwee does wind up flipping scum, it would make her vote on us look worse but unless she stays on us, nothing about her play is otherwise pinging, so idk.

Otoh, if bugs flips scum, that looks better for her.

I don’t think it’s likely that both Norwee and bugs are both town. I think they’re probably either S/S or T/S but very unlikely T/T.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I know personally that bugs is weird but he's just impossible here

Norwe coming in, saying he skimmed mech talk, but asking for someone to explain mech for him is kinda like ???

Norwe doesn't feel interested in solving this game at all

I'll take a bath and try to cool off, I've reads + setup strategy, Idk if I have anything else to do here.

my pronouns are they/them

baths are amazing

[bugspray] - absolute unit of alien logic

might put this in my sig later ngl

Is that all you have to say? No opinion on Norwee?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm feeling a little hesitant about spooks and smoke, but I can't put my finger on why. Maybe I'm scared of a pocket? Since they called me town so early?

Literally forgot about simple plan

Who is “spooks”?

Smoke hasn’t given a read on you but mine was based of thar post, I referenced.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So like, these roles are all pretty unique and without significant precedent for me. When I saw my PM I came to the thread and read up on the setup. I think scum have it easier setup wise, and are thereby less likely to have read the setup.

P:edit i man did you also skin your pm? Because

I borderline didn't understand mine

@Taly

@Johnny, that was me and this was the main reason I think you’re town.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@mod the setup says all town have equal chance to be one of the three things, does that mean there's 2 of 2 and 3 of 1, or is there another town role?

The chances are independent. Each town player has a 1/3 chance of being each of the three roles, regardless of what the other town players are. So, any distribution is possible.

@mod the setup says all town have equal chance to be one of the three things, does that mean there's 2 of 2 and 3 of 1, or is there another town role?

The chances are independent. Each town player has a 1/3 chance of being each of the three roles, regardless of what the other town players are. So, any distribution is possible.

@Norwee, have you read this or not?

~M

Yeah i got it, so there could technically be anything if the probability wills it.
5 sentries. No PR's, 1 of each town PR, etc if i understand this correctly.

If you understand this, then why are you voting the only claimed PR in the entire game?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Mirrors isn't pooky? Fuck that explains a lot

You thought it was?

What does that explain?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

pedit
i didnt read any taly posts and skimmed most of yours because a lot of them just were too thick with content i didn't find useful

translation:

You aren't reading the game, neither my posts, but think I'm scum.

I don't use this often, I find it not cool, but

you're genuinely dumb or obvious scum

.

translation:

You've seen through all of the useless filler posts I've made as scum and know that I'm scum.

I'm really desperate to ruin your credibility but I'm resorting to ad hominem arguments also lmao ur scum

pedit: your tldr needs a tldr

This is a blatant misrep. Where did he say he KNOWS you’re scum?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83365&user_select%5B%5D=32588

bugs’ towngame.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83365&user_select%5B%5D=32588

bugs’ towngame.

~M

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83833&user_select%5B%5D=32588

bugs’ scumgame.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I suspected norwe of being scum (rightfully) in the first 10 pages of our most recent game

I got sidetracked and ended up keeping it as a pet scum read during the game, but I did notice early something wrong with Norwe's slot.

I'm noticing the same thing here, so if I'm wrong I want him to come around and show me.

thats a cherry pick, i have plentry of other better towngames to look at

Feel free to post them then.

No one is stopping you.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=83774&user_select%5B%5D=33279

Norwee towngame

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=83774&user_select%5B%5D=33279

Norwee towngame

~M

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=83935&user_select%5B%5D=33279

Norwee scumgame


~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@bugs, @Norwee, @Herta, @Tayl0r, @A Simple Plan, can we get some current reads from all of you?

Thanks.

Can’f find meta on Herta but thinking my hydra partner could possibly be right?

Town!bugs is not usually this certain and he’s misrepping here similar to YoM2 and Norwee usually does a lot more as town than what we’re seeing from him here.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

why did you link a towngame where i was scummy and a scumgame when i was towny excuse me

pedit: my pronouns are they/them
i have been this certain before simlar to the high noon game where scum!alisae duelled me d1

As I said, please feel free to post other games, I want as much info as possible to accurately sort you.


I apologize, THEY.

Sorry, my dyslexia keeps fucking mr up with that.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

why did you link a towngame where i was scummy and a scumgame when i was towny excuse me

pedit: my pronouns are they/them

i have been this certain before simlar to the high noon game where scum!alisae duelled me d1

Please link that game then, if you’re right I would obviously want to switch my vote but both me and Smoke tr Bunno.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

i deadass have no clue how to find old games

Click under your name, then “View their topics”.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82500

You were right on Ferret and wrong on Heaven but nowhere in that game, do I see the kind of certainty I’m seeing here with your Bunno read.

This game doesn’t really sound all that different from the other towngame of yours that I linked, so since you were so obviously wrong on Heaven in that game, what makes you so certain on Bunno and even more importantly, why we should agree with it?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

pedit
i didnt read any taly posts and skimmed most of yours because a lot of them just were too thick with content i didn't find useful

translation:

You aren't reading the game, neither my posts, but think I'm scum.

I don't use this often, I find it not cool, but

you're genuinely dumb

or

obvious scum

.

translation:

You've seen through all of the useless filler posts I've made as scum and know that I'm scum.

I'm really desperate to ruin your credibility but I'm resorting to ad hominem arguments also lmao ur scum

pedit: your tldr needs a tldr

This is a blatant misrep. Where did he say he KNOWS you’re scum?

~M

Your reading comprehension is that bad?

No offense but what planet are you from? Bunno said to bugs. that he thought that they were EITHER “dumb” or “obvious scum”. *smdh*

“OR” does in no way imply KNOWING anything. He literally said “OR” ffs!

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Actually

VOTE: Norwe

I dunno if bug is scum or just weird, but norwe is sus atm.

It's not the main reason, but notice how he says he's curious about my mech solve, but when we begin discussing it he just vanishes. He was posting elsewhere meanwhile by the way.

I doubt that if he was really curious he wouldn't read and comment on it a bit later, he was online multiple times since that post.

Norwe's opening is intense asking around simple mechanical questions. I feel like that's a likely scum!Norwe opening.

He was

intensely

posting elsewhere during that time by the way.

I've a hard time believing that he would vanish and not look back on this later (he was online at least 3 times by now).

I suspected norwe of being scum (rightfully) in the first 10 pages of our most recent game

I got sidetracked and ended up keeping it as a pet scum read during the game, but I did notice early something wrong with Norwe's slot.

I'm noticing the same thing here, so if I'm wrong I want him to come around and show me.

I town read bunno but I hate looking at other activity to gauge alignment

. It's scummy.

You tr Bunno but your strongest sr is a player HEALing them but not a player on his wagon?

Please explain that.

Why is my not reading SS’ post scummier to you than a player trying to push through an execution on a claimed gardener?

~M

You did it twice.

It was still an ERROR and 100% NAI.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Also @Herta, you didn’t answer the OTHER half of my question.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

pedit
i didnt read any taly posts and skimmed most of yours because a lot of them just were too thick with content i didn't find useful

translation:

You aren't reading the game, neither my posts, but think I'm scum.

I don't use this often, I find it not cool, but

you're genuinely dumb

or

obvious scum

.

translation:

You've seen through all of the useless filler posts I've made as scum and know that I'm scum.

I'm really desperate to ruin your credibility but I'm resorting to ad hominem arguments also lmao ur scum

pedit: your tldr needs a tldr

This is a blatant misrep. Where did he say he KNOWS you’re scum?

~M

Your reading comprehension is that bad?

No offense but what planet are you from? Bunno said to bugs. that he thought that they were EITHER “dumb” or “obvious scum”. *smdh*

“OR” does in no way imply KNOWING anything. He literally said “OR” ffs!

~M

That's not what bugsy is saying.

Bugs is saying that Bunno KNOWS they’re scum, when I pointed out that Bunno is clearly NOT saying that.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Also @Herta, you didn’t answer the OTHER half of my question.

~M

I’m HEALing Bunno who claimed gardener and there are two slots voting him, which somehow reads scummer to you than an obvious mistake I made. Metacheck me if you seriously think that’s even remotely scum indicative for me.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Actually

VOTE: Norwe

I dunno if bug is scum or just weird, but norwe is sus atm.

It's not the main reason, but notice how he says he's curious about my mech solve, but when we begin discussing it he just vanishes. He was posting elsewhere meanwhile by the way.

I doubt that if he was really curious he wouldn't read and comment on it a bit later, he was online multiple times since that post.

Norwe's opening is intense asking around simple mechanical questions. I feel like that's a likely scum!Norwe opening.

He was

intensely

posting elsewhere during that time by the way.

I've a hard time believing that he would vanish and not look back on this later (he was online at least 3 times by now).

I suspected norwe of being scum (rightfully) in the first 10 pages of our most recent game

I got sidetracked and ended up keeping it as a pet scum read during the game, but I did notice early something wrong with Norwe's slot.

I'm noticing the same thing here, so if I'm wrong I want him to come around and show me.

I town read bunno but I hate looking at other activity to gauge alignment

. It's scummy.

You tr Bunno but your strongest sr is a player HEALing them but not a player on his wagon?

Please explain that.

Why is my not reading SS’ post scummier to you than a player trying to push through an execution on a claimed gardener?

~M

You did it twice.

It was still an ERROR and 100% NAI.

~M

Glad NAI checked in. Was afraid they needed a prod.

Dafuq????? Are you trolling me now or something?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

NAI= non-allignment indicative

If you’re trying to get me to switch my vote, you’re majorly sucking at it, jsyk.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Also @Herta, you didn’t answer the OTHER half of my question.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Spoiler:

Actually

VOTE: Norwe

I dunno if bug is scum or just weird, but norwe is sus atm.

It's not the main reason, but notice how he says he's curious about my mech solve, but when we begin discussing it he just vanishes. He was posting elsewhere meanwhile by the way.

I doubt that if he was really curious he wouldn't read and comment on it a bit later, he was online multiple times since that post.

Norwe's opening is intense asking around simple mechanical questions. I feel like that's a likely scum!Norwe opening.

He was

intensely

posting elsewhere during that time by the way.

I've a hard time believing that he would vanish and not look back on this later (he was online at least 3 times by now).

I suspected norwe of being scum (rightfully) in the first 10 pages of our most recent game

I got sidetracked and ended up keeping it as a pet scum read during the game, but I did notice early something wrong with Norwe's slot.

I'm noticing the same thing here, so if I'm wrong I want him to come around and show me.

I town read bunno but I hate looking at other activity to gauge alignment

. It's scummy.

You tr Bunno but your strongest sr is a player HEALing them but not a player on his wagon?

Please explain that.

Why is my not reading SS’ post scummier to you than a player trying to push through an execution on a claimed gardener?

~M

You did it twice.

It was still an ERROR and 100% NAI.

~M

Glad NAI checked in. Was afraid they needed a prod.

Dafuq????? Are you trolling me now or something?

~M

Someone, ANYONE please explain to me how Herta is town here.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

pooky was actually misrepping that.
I was translating the caught scum's words so that everyone could understand what they were actually saying

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82500

You were right on Ferret and wrong on Heaven but nowhere in that game, do I see the kind of certainty I’m seeing here with your Bunno read.

This game doesn’t really sound all that different from the other towngame of yours that I linked, so since you were so obviously wrong on Heaven in that game, what makes you so certain on Bunno and even more importantly, why we should agree with it?

~M

i've improved as a player and know how to spot the shit more effectively

For like the gazillionth freaking time, I’m “Mirrors” or M and Pooky is “Smoke” and wtf am I “misrepping”?

Now you’re also misrepping my post now.

I very clearly explained why.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

pedit
i didnt read any taly posts and skimmed most of yours because a lot of them just were too thick with content i didn't find useful

translation:

You aren't reading the game, neither my posts, but think I'm scum.

I don't use this often, I find it not cool, but

you're genuinely dumb

or

obvious scum

.

translation:

You've seen through all of the useless filler posts I've made as scum and know that I'm scum.

I'm really desperate to ruin your credibility but I'm resorting to ad hominem arguments also lmao ur scum

pedit: your tldr needs a tldr

This is a blatant misrep. Where did he say he KNOWS you’re scum?

~M

Your reading comprehension is that bad?

No offense but what planet are you from? Bunno said to bugs. that he thought that they were EITHER “dumb” or “obvious scum”. *smdh*

“OR” does in no way imply KNOWING anything. He literally said “OR” ffs!

~M

@bugs, please explain what I’m “misrepping” here? Neither Herta or you are going to gaslight me here, if that’s actually what either of you are even trying to do here?

I may be dyslexic but make no mistake here, I’m anything but stupid.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If it actually does turn out to be Herta/bugs, I want bragging rights.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I never said that bunno knew I was scum. I said that bunno knew that I knew that bunno was scum but you misrepped it as bunno knows I'm scum

Again, he said

”Or”

, that doesn’t imply KNOWING!

I’m not misrepping shit.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

aslo fyi i'm just calling your slot pooky

No I’m not okay with that. Either say S & M or pay attention to the signage. You refusing to outright do that is not only disrespectful to me but extremely confusing as well.

~M. as in

MIRRORS

I won’t be upset however if you call me “Nancy” instead of Mirrors.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why are you focusing on the or? That has nothing to do with my post pooky

Because you’ve’ misrepped me and I already nicely asked you to please stop fucking calling me that.

I seriously will consider this to be harassment if you don’t stop.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why are you focusing on the or? That has nothing to do with my post pooky

Because you’ve’ misrepped me and I already nicely asked you to please stop fucking calling me that.

I seriously will consider this to be harassment if you don’t stop.

~M

Again, if you don’t know which one of us is speaking, it “Smoke and Mirrors” or S &M. And you will KNOW if we fucking SIGN it!

“Smoke”. “S”, “Pooky” or “P”, is Pooky obviously and “Mirrors”, “M”, “Nancy” or “N” is me obviously. I won’t tell you again.

~Mirrors/M/Nancy/N God!

[Smoke and Mirrors]

aslo fyi i'm just calling your slot pooky

No I’m not okay with that. Either say S & M or pay attention to the signage. You refusing to outright do that is not only disrespectful to me but extremely confusing as well.

~M. as in

MIRRORS

I won’t be upset however if you call me “Nancy” instead of Mirrors.

Why are you focusing on the or? That has nothing to do with my post pooky

[Smoke and Mirrors]

that might be my bad influence sorry

~smoke

[Smoke and Mirrors]

this is the kind of quality content that makes me enjoy logging into the site.

10/10.

Norwee are you taking notes there buddy? this is how it's done.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Norwee are you taking notes there buddy? this is how it's done.

Well yeah, they are the one that inspired me to make those sort of memes in the first place.

That was “Smoke” btw @Pooky, you need to sign.

@Tayl0r didn’t you see my questions?

~Mirrors

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@bugs, @Norwee, @Herta, @Tayl0r, @A Simple Plan, can we get some current reads from all of you?

Thanks.

Can’f find meta on Herta but thinking my hydra partner could possibly be right?

Town!bugs is not usually this certain and he’s misrepping here similar to YoM2 and Norwee usually does a lot more as town than what we’re seeing from him here.

~M

@Tayl0r

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

They outed of all their games

Ok probably not AI then.

Yeah naw. Thoughts beyond that?

Also thoughts/ prayers/ hope everything's ok bugspray

Smoke tells me that bugs replaces out frequently.

But wow, ALL their games? That was sudden.


~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I have the impression that town!Bugspray is usually very lynchbaity because of their strong opinions as town. While as scum they tend to be mostly fluff. I'm feeling that this might actually be town!Bugspray when looking at their ISO again.

They expressed very strong opinions in the scumgame I referenced as well and they weren’t “fluff” in that game. What bugspray games have you seen where they post fluff? Can you link them for me?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Alright.
Everyone.
Whatever you were discussing or planning, stop immediately.
I just thought of something that I just had to work out to see if it works, and that seems to be the case. Look At my notes:
Here's a plan for town, meta-wise:
Today, we do not vote someone out. We do not give the beetle to anyone. At night, all Sentry's attempt to steal the beetle. Since there is likely more than one Sentry, it is almost certain that the beetle will go to a Sentry because no one will be defending the beetle. All Surgeons either try to heal Zenkava, or do nothing, so they keep their heel open for anybody. What Gardeners should do, I will tell later.
The next day, when the beetle has been stolen by a Sentry (or so we can safely assume), we have a confirmed Townie. This will happen almost every time if there is more than one Sentry, because mafia can only kill one person at night.
During following Day phases, we again do NOT vote for an execution or transfer of the beetle, UNLESS the Gardeners found someone attempting to steal the beetle. That's literally the only thing we need to discuss during Day phases.
During the second night phase, all Surgeons will HEAL the current caretaker. Sentry's will DEFEND the beetle. This is again a 95% chance of keeping the caretaker the caretaker and alive. Gardeners will continue to look for suspicious activity -> since no Sentry's will attempt to steal, if they find someone stealing, we caught a scummie.
Night 3, Sentry's use their one-time ability to guard the caretaker, keeping them alive so mafia can't steal, while Surgeons reload their heal.
All this time, we DO NOT VOTE.
AT ALL.
This way we can survive four nights almost certainly, with one confTown. Also, we will discuss only the real sus activity, namely steal attempts found by Gardeners.
I know this is not a 100% guaranteed, but it does come very close, and this plan is structured and prevents a lot of unnecessary discussions. This should lead us to winning the game most of the time.

If ANYONE has any objection to this, let us know. This is something I feel NEEDS to become our main discussion topic from now on, and I want everyone to respond saying they read this and what they think.

Why is more than one sentry likely? I think it’s probably either 2–2-3 or 3-3-1 right and we don’t know that the sentry isn’t the 1.

@mod, this is correct, right?

I’m not strong on understanding this setup but this post might be slightly town indicative?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I have the impression that town!Bugspray is usually very lynchbaity because of their strong opinions as town. While as scum they tend to be mostly fluff. I'm feeling that this might actually be town!Bugspray when looking at their ISO again.

I was under the impression that sentry steals were one shot

Ah yeah that's right. A bit too enthousiastic there
Still, we can do this:
Sentry's steal Night 1. That's their first one-time shot.
Surgeons heal the caretaker Night 2. It is a bit more risky now but still pretty safe.
Night 3, if there is any Sentry who does not have the beetle, uses their other one-time ability guard. This is also risky because if there is no such Sentry, mafia can kill and steal, winning the game. But because this is a plan, it is safer than not planning anything else.
Night 4 is the Surgeons' turn again.

Is this also good?

@Norwee, what is your current read on Herta? You may possibly be right on viz but I think you’re way off on Bunno, Taly.

Smoke is now mindmelding with me on Herta, he didn’t explain why though. I want to hear from Bunno and Taly wrt your plan and probably ASM as well.

I’m still good with keeping our vote where it is especially after your replace in, whatever we decide - unless of course we do decide to go with your plan and no execute but Herta is still my strongest scumread.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think its pretty funny vizIIsto came into the game with the exact same thought process I had at day-start.

feels town-indicative but wouldn't bet the bank on it.

~Smoke

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Viz, everything in your plan I already laid out like a few days ago as soon as the game started.

it was rejected by most of the town already :3.

~Smoke

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Also, I guess I can hereby
VOTE: No Lynch
and
HEAL: UNVOTE

Also, Smoke and Mirrors, you seem to be breaking my request to 'not discuss anything else besides my proposed plan'.

Lastly, please be aware that I have not read the previous 20 pages tonight; I was busy thinking out this plan. I will come back tomorrow after I've taken the time to read it, but I won't share any findings unless it turns out my plan isn't bulletproof.

Why is discussing our reads bad?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Nah but at this stage with the discussion that's happened I trust and believe that the Gardener claim is legit

+1

When Smoke initially proposed his plan he had no townreads but he keeps reiterating he tr Bunno, so I’m good with him getting the bug.

did i do good bunno? am i getting that scummy award? <3

probably

the unique doubt I've left that norwe is scum is that this has been ridiculously easy and he's showing no resistance whatsoever.

He's like, not even attempting to turn the tables...

I'm not sure what to expect in scum!norwe in this position, I've never seen scum!him being pressured.

I also like this post. Smoke definitely isn’t tr Norwee but he also thinks I could possibly be right about him being lhf, so we’re currently null on that slot. I kind of think scum!Norwee would be attempting to push some kind of agenda but so far, I don’t think we’re really seeing that.

I also don’t feel Viz is scummy so he possibly might get townpoints for that. I’d feel a lot better about him if he unvoted Bunno.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

-Did Tayl0r ever explain the S&M vote from page two? I get E-1 isn't ideal on page two, but what's the reasoning to not just unvote?

Another thing, I’d like Tayl0r to address.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Town

- Smoke and Mirrors

Light Townread

- Herta
- JohnnyFarrar (I dont sense much scum agenda behind their posting)

Null

- A Simple Plan (Need more content)
- bugspray
- Tayl0r Swift (Need to interact with them more)

Light Scumread

- Taly (I just don't get good vibes from their posting, maybe cus it's so weird. I also don't support their healing decision just because Bunno claimed Gardener)

Scum

- Bunno

As Taly already claimed it was me and now Johnny who have commented specifically on the gardener claim not Taly.

How is Herta your 2nd strongest tr after us? What have they done to remotely warrant that read?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

His top town read S&M is healing me, but in no moment he tried to talk to them or suggest healing them. Almost as if he's not confident he can get the bug himself therefore it doesn't matter who receives it, even if currently it looks like his top scum read will get it.

There's probably no other objectively scummier behavior than what Norwe has done so far?

Yeah, that is definitely weird, you would think he’d be pushing for us to get it.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

-Did Tayl0r ever explain the S&M vote from page two? I get E-1 isn't ideal on page two, but what's the reasoning to not just unvote?

Another thing, I’d like Tayl0r to address.

~M

@Tayl0r, here is one and the other one you just answered.

I like that we’re mindmelding on Herta.

That last post from Herta read like he really doesn’t care if my missing SS’ post was NAI or not and it’s also pretty damned obvious I didn’t misconstrue bugs’ post.

@Norwee, what is your response to what Bunno is saying? If he is your strongest scumread then why aren’t you doing anything to stop him from getting the beetle?

If he were my #1 sr, you better believe that’s what I’d be doing. So, please explain that + why your tr on Herta is so high?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

-Did Tayl0r ever explain the S&M vote from page two? I get E-1 isn't ideal on page two, but what's the reasoning to not just unvote?

Another thing, I’d like Tayl0r to address.

~M

@Tayl0r, here is one and the other one you just answered.

I like that we’re mindmelding on Herta.

That last post from Herta read like he really doesn’t care if my missing SS’ post was NAI or not and it’s also pretty damned obvious I didn’t misconstrue bugs’ post.

@Norwee, what is your response to what Bunno is saying? If he is your strongest scumread then why aren’t you doing anything to stop him from getting the beetle?

If he were my #1 sr, you better believe that’s what I’d be doing. So, please explain that + why your tr on Herta is so high?

~M

-Did Tayl0r ever explain the S&M vote from page two? I get E-1 isn't ideal on page two, but what's the reasoning to not just unvote?

Another thing, I’d like Tayl0r to address.

~M

@Tayl0r, here is one and the other one you just answered.

I like that we’re mindmelding on Herta.

That last post from Herta read like he really doesn’t care if my missing SS’ post was NAI or not and it’s also pretty damned obvious I didn’t misconstrue bugs’ post.

@Norwee, what is your response to what Bunno is saying? If he is your strongest scumread then why aren’t you doing anything to stop him from getting the beetle?

If he were my #1 sr, you better believe that’s what I’d be doing. So, please explain that + why your tr on Herta is so high?

~M

Oops sorry about that.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@bugs, @Norwee, @Herta, @Tayl0r, @A Simple Plan, can we get some current reads from all of you?

Thanks.

Can’f find meta on Herta but thinking my hydra partner could possibly be right?

Town!bugs is not usually this certain and he’s misrepping here similar to YoM2 and Norwee usually does a lot more as town than what we’re seeing from him here.

~M

@Tayl0r

~M

townish on smoke and mirrors
town on johnny
weak town lean on taly
herta is strongest scumread

S_S has pinged me with a few posts. can provide examples if needed, but i think you all will know which ones

.
unsure on norwee. but norwee is always scum, right?

Wrt to the bolded, is that a typo or are you just being facetious?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

-Did Tayl0r ever explain the S&M vote from page two? I get E-1 isn't ideal on page two, but what's the reasoning to not just unvote?

Another thing, I’d like Tayl0r to address.

~M

@Tayl0r, here is one and the other one you just answered.

I like that we’re mindmelding on Herta.

That last post from Herta read like he really doesn’t care if my missing SS’ post was NAI or not and it’s also pretty damned obvious I didn’t misconstrue bugs’ post.

@Norwee, what is your response to what Bunno is saying? If he is your strongest scumread then why aren’t you doing anything to stop him from getting the beetle?

If he were my #1 sr, you better believe that’s what I’d be doing. So, please explain that + why your tr on Herta is so high?

~M

a page 2 vote sounds like RVS. did i say it wasnt?

No, so fair answer.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Wrt to the bolded, is that a typo or are you just being facetious?

im always dead serious. do you not find SS to be scummy?

Well, he’s the mod so . . .

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Believe me, town!Taylor is capable of RVS voting in the first pages and never removing the vote up to day 1 end.

I like her take anyway so not worried.

I'm waiting for Norwe's to reply me but it seems he is gonna ignore me

Yeah, not liking that at all but he’s definitely playing suboptimally irrespective of alignment. Town!him should definitely be opposing you getting the bug in any case and he doesn’t seem to want us (his top tr) to have it either, yet he also isn’t backing Viz’ plan either, so he is expressing absolutely no preference wrt to the HEAL.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Wrt to the bolded, is that a typo or are you just being facetious?

im always dead serious. do you not find SS to be scummy?

Well, he’s the mod so . . .

well thats what he wants us to think. perfect fake-claim for scum, innit?

Yeah, let’s powerexecute S_S, I’m game. Lmao

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Herta

and

SM

are two players that have consistently battled this game and your reads imply they are TvT, what posts have led to this conclusion?

+1

Yeah, my thoughts here exactly and he never explained this.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

pedit
i didnt read any taly posts and skimmed most of yours because a lot of them just were too thick with content i didn't find useful

translation:

You aren't reading the game, neither my posts, but think I'm scum.

I don't use this often, I find it not cool, but you're genuinely dumb or obvious scum.

translation:
You've seen through all of the useless filler posts I've made as scum and know that I'm scum.

I'm really desperate to ruin your credibility but I'm resorting to ad hominem arguments also lmao ur scum

pedit: your tldr needs a tldr

Bugs was writing their translation from a scum!bunno POV. It's easy to see. Just put quotes around the translation part written by Bugs:

"You've seen through all of the useless filler posts I've made as scum and know that I'm scum.

I'm really desperate to ruin your credibility but I'm resorting to ad hominem arguments also lmao ur scum"

Further evidence: Who is the one who resorted to ad hominem? Bunno. Bugs had no reason to put anything about ad hominem in there -- Bugs never used ad hominem.

Even further evidence: The common tactic of mirroring, in this case using "translation" followed by two lines, both ending with the word "scum." The first line is an accusatory statement, and the second is personalized. It's quite poetic really.

The "and" "or" means nothing.

Town!Bunno should have pointed this out because I know very little escapes Bunno.

I’m sorry, I’m still not getting any of this?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm getting bad vibes from Bunno on this Norwee push too.

Why? At least his reasons aren’t totally NAI like yours is on me. Well, it isn’t exactly a push but a bad take, so I don’t think you’re really in a position to criticize.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Also @Herta, you didn’t answer the OTHER half of my question.

~M

What was the other half?

Actually

VOTE: Norwe

I dunno if bug is scum or just weird, but norwe is sus atm.

It's not the main reason, but notice how he says he's curious about my mech solve, but when we begin discussing it he just vanishes. He was posting elsewhere meanwhile by the way.

I doubt that if he was really curious he wouldn't read and comment on it a bit later, he was online multiple times since that post.

Norwe's opening is intense asking around simple mechanical questions. I feel like that's a likely scum!Norwe opening.

He was

intensely

posting elsewhere during that time by the way.

I've a hard time believing that he would vanish and not look back on this later (he was online at least 3 times by now).

I suspected norwe of being scum (rightfully) in the first 10 pages of our most recent game

I got sidetracked and ended up keeping it as a pet scum read during the game, but I did notice early something wrong with Norwe's slot.

I'm noticing the same thing here, so if I'm wrong I want him to come around and show me.

I town read bunno but I hate looking at other activity to gauge alignment

. It's scummy.

You tr Bunno but your strongest sr is a player HEALing them but not a player on his wagon?

Please explain that.

Why is my not reading SS’ post scummier to you than a player trying to push through an execution on a claimed gardener?

~M

I don’t exactly remember rn but I’m assuming it’s probably this one?

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Actually

VOTE: Norwe

I dunno if bug is scum or just weird, but norwe is sus atm.

It's not the main reason, but notice how he says he's curious about my mech solve, but when we begin discussing it he just vanishes. He was posting elsewhere meanwhile by the way.

I doubt that if he was really curious he wouldn't read and comment on it a bit later, he was online multiple times since that post.

Norwe's opening is intense asking around simple mechanical questions. I feel like that's a likely scum!Norwe opening.

He was

intensely

posting elsewhere during that time by the way.

I've a hard time believing that he would vanish and not look back on this later (he was online at least 3 times by now).

I suspected norwe of being scum (rightfully) in the first 10 pages of our most recent game

I got sidetracked and ended up keeping it as a pet scum read during the game, but I did notice early something wrong with Norwe's slot.

I'm noticing the same thing here, so if I'm wrong I want him to come around and show me.

I town read bunno but I hate looking at other activity to gauge alignment

. It's scummy.

You tr Bunno but your strongest sr is a player HEALing them but not a player on his wagon?

Please explain that.

Why is my not reading SS’ post scummier to you than a player trying to push through an execution on a claimed gardener?

~M

You did it twice.

It was still an ERROR and 100% NAI.

~M

I found it, actually I think.

It was three times I think, actually, but we'll go with error for now.

It was more than your not reading SS post

. I agree that the claim should be left alone for now, but voting to give bunno the bug rn is a bad idea. We need more conversation.

What else because whatever you want to believe or how many times I made that error, it still doesn’t change the fact that it 100% was a mistake on my part, because I hadn’t read that post.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Town!Bunno should have pointed this out because I know very little escapes Bunno.

I'm flattered but I'm not sure what to say, I did notice he was talking as if he was scum!me but why would I point it out? I thought it was self-evident enough.

About that exchange with bugs overall, I don't feel anything bad or weird that I did. He was literally not reading both my/Taly posts but was scum reading me out of a poor understanding of my mech plans.

He didn't read my mech plans, but he began scum reading me from a poorly read/understood notion that my plans were trying to fool town.

I couldn't resist calling him potential dumb town, It's not one of my proudest moments as I don't like to attack the player but I could understand exactly 0 of where he was coming from.

I can at least vaguely understand why it's plausible town!Norwe could be suspicious of me maybe. I didn't understand bug at all though.

It apparently wasn't self-evident. S&M has spent the last 24 hours not understanding it. You could've helped them out and said, "I think you're looking at this wrong" when you realized they weren't misinterpreting it on purpose. That's why I didn't let it hang any longer. It's obvious they just misunderstood. You admitting that you understood and continued to let them toil in question marks says a lot about you.

Ummm . . . so you’re still voting us, why?

I have to say, I’m kind of getting sus at this switchup, particularly since you’re STILL voting us.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

pedit
i didnt read any taly posts and skimmed most of yours because a lot of them just were too thick with content i didn't find useful

translation:

You aren't reading the game, neither my posts, but think I'm scum.

I don't use this often, I find it not cool, but you're genuinely dumb or obvious scum.

translation:
You've seen through all of the useless filler posts I've made as scum and know that I'm scum.

I'm really desperate to ruin your credibility but I'm resorting to ad hominem arguments also lmao ur scum

pedit: your tldr needs a tldr

Bugs was writing their translation from a scum!bunno POV. It's easy to see. Just put quotes around the translation part written by Bugs:

"You've seen through all of the useless filler posts I've made as scum and know that I'm scum.

I'm really desperate to ruin your credibility but I'm resorting to ad hominem arguments also lmao ur scum"

Further evidence: Who is the one who resorted to ad hominem? Bunno. Bugs had no reason to put anything about ad hominem in there -- Bugs never used ad hominem.

Even further evidence: The common tactic of mirroring, in this case using "translation" followed by two lines, both ending with the word "scum." The first line is an accusatory statement, and the second is personalized. It's quite poetic really.

The "and" "or" means nothing.

Town!Bunno should have pointed this out because I know very little escapes Bunno.

I’m sorry, I’m still not getting any of this?

~M

Bugs was essentially mocking Bunno.

One of them is scum

.

And what is your opinion on the Viz replace in? and no, I don’t see this. What I do see is you making a lot of assumptions that you sound extremely confident on that really aren’t making sense to me.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I still recommend S&M to vote him though

If anyone feels confident on me being town I also recommend healing me because I'm very interested on what Norwe will do once I'm confirmed town

Now I'm off again. Maybe I'll not be back soon idk.

VC 1.5

Herta (2)- A Simple Plan, Smoke and Mirrors
Smoke and Mirrors (2)- Tayl0r Swift, Herta
Bunno (2)- vizIIsto, NorwegianboyEE
NorwegianboyEE (2)- Bunno, Taly

Not voting (1)- JohnnyFarrar

With 9 alive it takes 5 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-10-23 19:00:00)

Mod notes: Bunno V/LA weekends

Beetle Status

The Red-Horned Dung Beetle has

no caretaker.

Bunno (3)- Bunno, Smoke and Mirrors, Taly
vizIIsto (1)- vizIIsto
Tayl0r Swift (1)- Tayl0r Swift

Not voting (4)- NorwegianboyEE, JohnnyFarrar, A Simple Plan, Herta

I’m not opposed but I will wait to see what he says tomorrow and it’s still bothering me that Herta is pushing you now while still voteparked on me for NAI things and now he’s even claiming I misunderstood bugs’ post, so none of that is sitting particularly well with me.

Btw, why are you not asking Johnny to vote Norwee?

Oh and @mod, this VC needs updating since Viz unvoted Bunno and unhealed himself.

~M

[Smoke and Mirrors]

(possible) Last post

I'm not asking Johnny because he hasn't said anything in open support of scum!norwe, I want to see what he'll do by himself

I do recommend him to vote norwe and heal me already though to progress this game. I doubt my mind will change by what Norwe will say next, he seems to not care.

Both Taly and Herta have pointed out that it’s probably late for Norwee, so if I see him post anything in the thread that continues to be dodge, I’m okay with voting there.

@Taly, what is your take on Herta pushing Bunno while still voteparked on us, especially after he’s claiming I misunderstood bugs’ post? Also, what is your take on his TvS on Viz/Bunno? I don’t understand how he is completely ruling out tvt as a possibility. While I like his tone a lot better, I think it’s kind of strange he’s still voting us based off of what he recently posted.

However, he does sound better today than yesterday, so I’ll probably switch to Norwee dependent on his answers but I’d be shocked if his behaviour does a complete 180 from now until then.

I think it’s pretty damned obvious you’re town, not that it hasn’t been since the claim and your play here is a helluva lot closer to Doubles than BP, so whatever Herta is, he’s bad at reading this game.

~M