Micro 974: The Last of the Red-Horned Dung Beetles (Borked)

[Bunno]

Hi

I've no idea what is the optimal strategy here

I'll try to figure out in the weekend or something

I feel people may be jumping the gun about the votes though

[Bunno]

Regardless of if we're gonna have no caretaker or compromisse on a caretaker, it should be later in the day. I don't think self-voting is smart either, you aren't accomplishing anything doing that.

I suggest we forget for a moderate lenght of time about voting caretakers, figure out what we want to do mech related (it's inevitable to have mech talk in such a setup), play the game to get it out of RVS, later decide on a caretaker (if we ever agree to get one) based on what happened during the day.

Quickhammering is a scumclaim in this setup by the way?

[Bunno]

Bunno~~

[Bunno]

the probability we give the bug to a mafia player is (2/9) = 22.22%

the probability we do not have a sentry is (2/3)^7 = 5.8%

I believe the sentry plan is way safer than the give the bug to somebody plan.

Probability in mafia is a poor choice.

You assume every slot have the same chance of being mafia while that's very far from the truth.

Statistically speaking it's unlikely that the top town read slot is mafia in most games, especially if there's not particularly strong scum players in the playerlist.

We'll sooner or later need to give the bug to someone, letting the towniest slot die N1 to be forced to worse odds later feels silly to me.

Realize you need to take the risk sooner or later and just let's take it while we have an advantage.

[Bunno]

@mod

when you say that the sentry has priority stealing the bug, do you mean them have a higher percentage chance of stealing it or do you mean it's assured they're going to steal it regardless of what mafia does?

question 2: If there's only one sentry attempting to steal the bug, but mafia has its two goons attempting to steal it, is the sentry still guaranteed to receive it?

[Bunno]

Ok I'm reading this setup a bit.

What you need to realize here in my opinion is that it's high-risk, high-reward. Safe plays here are ok, but you can massively gain the upperhand by making some risk plays/gambits. (The reason I wanted to play this setup either way)

If we're to do gambits, we should do it exactly in N1 because we still have a good upperhand on the game.

Depending on how S_S answer my question, I'm beginning to think this is massively swing and breakable in N1.

N1 in that case would be almost a sink or swim situation where mafia has very low probability of winning it if we win in night actions, but we would also have the upperhand in the gambit.

[Bunno]

@mod

is a sentry that stealed the bug and turned into the caretaker publicly revealed or not?

[Bunno]

revealing roles here is very anti-town for the gambit.

Do not reveal roles no matter what for now.

[Bunno]

Do not reveal roles no matter what. Don't do L-1 claims.

Do not hammer anyone for now no matter what

I hope you'll listen to the above advice because if you mess this up mafia gains a good upperhand here. Worst scenario is that it makes the most optimal night-plan unable to be pulled off.

Depending on how the mod answer my questions I'll come to confirm or not if the plan can be pulled off, but I think I want to let the day go on a bit longer before talking about the plan.

It's important to also have readable content for later regardless of what we do, so I'm gonna lurk a bit.

[Bunno]

Not an attempt to a "call for reputation" but I do think I'm a very mech-savy player here so please consider my words kindly.

[Bunno]

@mod

last question

Town Sentry-- once per game, if not the caretaker of the Beetle, the Sentry may choose one of two options: either (1) defend the Red-Horned Dung Beetle, preventing anyone from stealing it that night; or (2) attempt to steal the Red-Horned Dung Beetle, becoming its new caretaker if successful (if the Beetle has a caretaker, this is only successful if the caretaker dies that night). Sentries have a higher steal priority than Mafia members; if multiple players of the same alignment make an unblocked attempt to steal the Red-Horned Dung Beetle in the same night, one will succeed at random.
Town Sentry-- once per game, if the Red-Horned Dung Beetle has a caretaker, the Sentry may choose to guard that caretaker. If the caretaker would die at night, the Sentry dies instead. If multiple Sentries guard a player who is attacked, one dies at random. If the Sentry guards a player who is also healed by a Surgeon, the Sentry will still die.

I assume this means that even if a sentry attempts to steal the bug, as long as they aren't successful and the bug is in possession of someone else, they can still defend that player from the NK by the second ability?

It's two once per game abilities depending on if the bug has a caretaker right?

[Bunno]

I assume this means that even if a sentry attempts to steal the bug, as long as they aren't successful and the bug is in possession of someone else, they can still defend that player from the NK by the second ability?

Sentries may use both of their one-shots in the same night, if that's what you're asking.

(Also, don't worry about asking a lot of questions. I don't mind being pestered if it means the players understand the setup better.)

Oh ok, you confirm it's two different one shots in that case. Thank you.

I think this was all my questions, maybe.

This setup is probably one of the most fun I've ever played, thank you for making it.

[Bunno]

I think I figured out this setup?

There's multiple plans here for town. They will look pretty insane for people used to think inside the box too much (there's one where we publicly eliminate conftown btw and it's super strong), but they're effective.

I'll try to lurk for a bit and decide on the best one, but like, there's so much stuff you can do here to be fair. Such a versatile setup.

My opinion in this setup at the moment is that:

1) If town tries to play it like a normal mafia game they lose most of the time

2) If town understands the setup and throws common sense to the wind, they have the upperhand.

I feel mafia doesn't have too much room to play against town plans here to be fair, I feel like as soon as town figures out the optimal plan they're very screwed. Misinformation is their best tactic.

Don't claim yet though, we may massclaim later but please wait.

Let's play this normally for 3 - 4 days or so, I'll explain everything later. No claims or hammer though.

Please

[Bunno]

wow I feel like I'm drunk

wtf you can break this setup so hard it's scary depending on the role distribution

I do understand why you would think this is balanced though, as long as you suppose town is sane, this setup is balanced

if you've an oddball like me though...

[Bunno]

I pretty much understand my PM.

Here's how I think the roles are in terms of power level:

Sentries - imo the strongest PR. Town sentries have the ability to conf-town themselves by stealing the bug in the nightphase. Ideally we have only 1 or 2 sentries steal but since we don't know how many sentries we have I think it makes sense to just have them all steal. The sentries that do not steal the bug can use their bodyguard ability to save the sentry that has the bug, but only if all our doctors are gone. Now there is a doctor restriction in that doctors cannot protect the same person twice so we will need to split up our doctors.

Doctors - pretty strong PR that has a partial cop or a save ability.

One method to split doctors would be separate the game into group (A) and group (B) and alternate night actions between the two doctor groups such that if you are in Group (A) and a doctor you protect on odd nights and if you are in Group (B) and a doctor you protect on even nights. When you are not protecting I guess you can try to revive Doctor Z or whatever. This makes it fairly difficult for scum to guess whether they can safely nightkill the sentry. Another way would be to just have every doctor in the game flip a coin at night, heads you protect, tails you don't etc.


Gardener - I'm not sure what to do about the gardeners - I think it might be a good idea to have the gardeners make sure that all players cannot "steal" the bug as that would essentially eliminate a mafia win condition - remember it doesn't give the town a bonus for a town to have the bug, but if nobody can have the bug, the mafia cannot use the bug as a win con.

~Smoke

That's wrong!

[Bunno]

Gardener - I'm not sure what to do about the gardeners - I think it might be a good idea to have the gardeners make sure that all players cannot "steal" the bug as that would essentially eliminate a mafia win condition - remember it doesn't give the town a bonus for a town to have the bug, but if nobody can have the bug, the mafia cannot use the bug as a win con.

Gardener is the strongest PR.

Depending on the number of Gardeners in this game, it's an auto-win. There's no hope for mafia.

Gardeners are also unable to be fakeclaimed therefore if any mafia claims gardener they are as good as outed in Day 2. There's a very simple way to verify a gardener's claim.

[Bunno]

I feel this game deadline is a bit too short/playerlist is too low-activity to let things develop later.

In that case, I probably should begin explaining how to win this game now...

The first thing we should do, is to have all gardeners claim. Only the gardeners though.

As long as you lock Gardeners actions, it's very simply to verify in the next days if their claim is genuine or not, making them either conftown or guilted mafia. Gardeners have the ability to make people unable to receive the bug, and if they are voted, as the mod says, "nothing will happen", therefore it's

impossible

to fakeclaim

Gardener

as long as you lock their targets so that they can't claim the same target later.

That means if we create the right circumstances, every gardener is going to turn into an innocent child by Day 2. Even if mafia roleblocks one of them, they can only roleblock once per game, therefore

by Day 3 at most we have as many innocent childs as we have gardeners

. In case mafia fakeclaims gardener, they're going to be outted by day 3 at maximum.

Since Gardeners are going to be able to confirm themselves, and we're going to lock their targets, it also means they'll not block each other and are gonna be able to safely hold the bug.

Gardeners are the ultimate role in this setup, make no mistake. Sentries only allow gardeners potential to shine, and surgeons are pretty weak all considered.

All gardeners should claim now, be locked into targets, and turn into innocent childs by D2 or D3.

Depending on how many gardeners there is, this is an auto-win. If there's not many, I'll explain what to do considering the optimal plan.

[Bunno]

I'm a

Gardener

by the way.

[Bunno]

But Bunno, how is this game fun if we can just mech win.

Can we really win though mech alone? Or I'm lying so that mafia will make an error of judgement and we win anyway?

It's not like mafia doesn't have options, but they need to either see through me or to misinform town.

I wouldn't consider this an instant defeat if I was mafia, but I would need to create a strategy.

Are they able to pull it off though? That's the question.

This is a game of tricks more than it's a regular game. I may or may not be tricking mafia, who knows.

[Bunno]

Everyone should claim

Gardener

or

Not Gardener

Let's go and

eliminate all liars

.

[Bunno]

If someone refuses to claim they're going to be pro-scum and we should eliminate them by the way.

Refrain me from any traditional thinking that it's not good to reveal roles or etc. This doesn't apply in this setup.

We're able to make every gardener into innocent child as long as we reveal and lock them today. We're also able to elect a caretaker with a 100% chance of being town tomorrow by this plan.

Gardeners are useless if you don't use their potential to the maximum though.

This is the optimal strategy. Now claims.

[Bunno]

So like, these roles are all pretty unique and without significant precedent for me. When I saw my PM I came to the thread and read up on the setup. I think scum have it easier setup wise, and are thereby less likely to have read the setup.

P:edit i man did you also skin your pm? Because I borderline didn't understand mine

I don't follow your logic about scum having less likely to have read. To the bat computer!

..
..
..

[INCONCLUSIVE]
..

I still don't follow. I can see an individual scum not reading and being led around in the maf PT, but other than that I got nothing.

Claim if you're garderer or not.

[Bunno]

there's a pretty obv problem with your plan.

let's say we have 3 gardeners:

A
B
C

and we assign them to "prevent" 1, 2, 3. respectively.

Then we use the bug to check 1, 2, 3.

You are right in that if 1,2,3 are all unable to take the bug, that A,B,C will be like ICs and confirmed innocent.

However if one of the players (1,2,3) is mafia, they can roleblock the gardener assigned to that person, get the bug and win the game.

Why would you reveal this if it's true it's beyond me. But I don't think it's how it works, since they are unable to receive the bug they shouldn't appear as a viable target in the VCA.

Treestumps don't appear in the VCA, because they aren't viable targets for elimination. The same should happen here by the rules.

[Bunno]

It's not like I hadn't realized this, but I would confirm it after everyone had claimed gardener or not while mafia thought there was a 0% chance of fakeclaiming it

Even if the above is true though, there's other more subtle ways to verify a gardener claim. I don't think it's how it works though.

You shouldn't confirm with the mod if it's true or not here, confirm it after the claims, because if it's how I think it is, if any mafia tries to fakeclaim it they're outed.

It's all about risk and tricks S&M.

You're ruining the show here.

Claim now or I'll scum read all of you

GARDERER

OR NOT GARDERER

Don't give time to mafia confirm with the mod how the mechanic works.

[Bunno]

Treestumps don't appear in the VCA, because they aren't viable targets for elimination. The same should happen here by the rules.

That's literally not what happens tho. according to the public info for a gardener - the last line:

(if they are voted to receive it, instead nothing will happen, and if they attempt to steal it the attempt will automatically fail).

implies that those unable to possess the bug can still be voted to receive it - hence you would need to actually vote them the bug to test it out.

I am revealing it because I don't want to lose when you do your plan and the mafia take this fairly obvious countermeasure and insta-win.

I had already noticed that, and I was using it to my advantage

That's the difference between me and you, I don't only use truths, I use lies as well even as town, and we should all claim garderer or not before someone confirms with the mod how it works.

I think poorly of you slot right now btw

[Bunno]

That's literally not what happens tho. according to the public info for a gardener - the last line:

(if they are voted to receive it, instead nothing will happen, and if they attempt to steal it the attempt will automatically fai

"if they are voted to receive it, nothing will happen"

It's unclear how it would go, and I still beat that they aren't viable targets just as treestumps aren't able to be voted.

Either way though, even if we cannot confirm every garderer as town, it's still to our advantage to lock their targets so that we have the majority of the playerlist unable to steal the bugs. It eliminates one alternative wincon by mafia and it also risks them using their roleblock for a chance of receiving the bug.

[Bunno]

All of you are extremely scummy trying to buy time to verify with the mod how it works tbh

[Bunno]

@mod To be clear is that the way to remove a heal?

To remove a heal use HEAL: nobody or UNVOTE: heal XXX. Sorry for not making that clear.

@mod if a person has its ability to receive the bug removed by a gardener, can they still receive votes in the dayphase?

Let's solve it once and for all since he's here.

[Bunno]

"if they are voted to receive it" implies that they can be voted to receive it, the result however would be nothing.

if our goal was to make all people unable to receive the bug we would not really need gardeners to claim, they could just go around clearing in a circular pattern or something like that - for example on N1 we could just ask all gardeners to disable the name below them on the playerlist to gurantee no target repeats.

imo the most important use of a gardener is to eat a bullet for one of the 2 more powerful PRs as doctors can actually generate positive gain and sentries can prevent the mafia from taking the bug.

It's very enlightining that you're still talking to me when the mod is here

You seen to want to deny it before there's any proof, which indicates you either already contacted the mod in private or you don't want this method to be true.

Very enlightning.

[Bunno]

Doctors need to coordinate their targets to reveal one mafia, it's already confirmed by the mod here:

Are you understanding the mechanics right? For an operation to be successful, there needs to be exactly one surgeon operating in a given night, and to wake the doctor two DIFFERENT surgeons need to get successful operations.

Surgeons can only heal in 90% of the circumstances because if they reveal they are either killed or blocked, therefore useless

They can't protect the same people consecutively as well therefore not even as meat shield they are useful, because they need to reveal themselves/coordinate or to have a sentry to defend in the next day.

[Bunno]

i haven't contacted the mod

i believe it's a fairly common sense reading of the rules.

You're being pretty ridiculous :3

btw all of these posts are Pooky.

You literally ruined the whole thing if you're town? how am I the one being ridiculous?

I would reveal that flaw later either way and regardless of that, it's good for gardeners to claim and we lock their targets. We may not be able to confirm everyone but later when someone needs to receive the bug if they can't receive it it's because the gardener is confirmed. It's still literally creating confirmed townies while your plan is to have all sentries waste their 1-shot day 1 to create only one confirmed town.

[Bunno]

The claims would have more vericity if people had been buying that (it doesn't matter what you say, people were being convinced that it was what I said), but it's still not a bad idea to have the garderers lock their targets because it

can

confirm them as town later pretty easily.

[Bunno]

No it wouldn't

if a garderer blocks another garderer it's useless

It's also obvious that garderers should begin blocking the most scummy players in the game

This bug thing is the easiest way to mafia win this game, as fast as we cancel this wincon the better.

You talk as if sentries/surgeons are useful, but sentries can only use their ability once per game (and you're suggesting every one of them wastes it in d1), and surgeons can't protect consecutively

Even if you make all sentries steal in d1, doctors protect in d2, sentries guard in d3, if we run out of sentries or doctors and don't notice it, mafia steals the bug in the night and wins

Garderers need to cancel this wincon as fast as possible if they're numerous, because if there's many gardeners, it means there's little sentries/doctors, and we've good chances of running out of them in N3, or having only one which will be roleblocked.

If I was mafia I would exactly aim to steal the bug and your strategy is making it easy for them, which is why I don't like your slot but have trouble seeing nancy as scum here.

[Bunno]

If that slot was only pooky I would lock it as mafia. You've done nothing but be pro-scum here in my vision.

Your plan is literally the easiest way for mafia to steal the bug.

Sentries waste all of their shots d1, doctors heal only the bug therefore everyone else can be NK'd, doctors can't coordinate investigation because they don't know each other, gardeners waste their shoots on random people rather than scummy people, we can't clear gardeners. Mafia can fakeclaim any role in that condition and get away with it.

Literally the easiest way for mafia to steal the bug in N3 or to pass this game.

You just think this is the best if you're town, because it feels "safe", but it's what I would advice here if I was mafia because in late game/LyLo it's very easy to steal the bug/fakeclaim.

[Bunno]

Depending on how many gardeners we had, I would suggest different plans of action, exactly why I wanted them to claim first

By having the number or gardeners, we can calculate:

1) How fast we can cancel the bug wincon

2) More or less how many sentries/doctors we have, because if we run out of it in N3 it's game over

[Bunno]

It would be particularly good if most of them claimed thinking it would out them later, it was less likely to have mafia, and I would have revealed it later either way

/shrug

[Bunno]

If we have a small number of gardeners, we lock their targets and it may or not confirm them as town later, while confirming to us we probably have enough sentries/doctor to protect the bug in N3.

[Bunno]

Garderer is not a role. Are you intentionally misspelling it?

No I was too busy dealing with S&M/typing too fast to notice the mistake

I'm not a native english speaker

[Bunno]

No one besides me seems to be claiming

Whatever I guess, but in that case I'll not reveal my target until the next day.

[Bunno]

Now that the cat is outta the bag TL;DR of what I was doing:

- I was trying to convince mafia that it was bad to fakeclaim gardener, and convincing town to do it, even if one of the mafia were to fakeclaim to try to take advantage of it, I would later reveal the hole in the plan and we probably would have at max one mafia fakeclaiming, if not 0, therefore we would have a roughly accurate situation of how many doctors/sentries are, would be able to divide them into groups to try to take the investigative shot, and would have better odds of dividing sentries to not waste all of their shots on d1.

- Would be able to coordinate effectively the gardeners to block all the scummiest players during the night, therefore in LyLo there would be less probability mafia could steal the bug, because they probably aren't attempting to steal it before then/only in late-game it's really worth to try to steal/easiest way for mafia to win this.

- May have been something slightly towny to have claimed

- Could have made mafia waste their roleblock on the gardeners to try to fool town, only to come d2 and we change directions. Mafia RB is one of their strongest abilities, if we could make them waste it in a useless way our shots would be way better.

It's still optimal but eh...it's not as good of a deal as it was before, if 2 mafia fakeclaim gardener it's going to be kind of a pain now. I wanted to be sure as possible there would be only 1 mafia in the gardeners at max, maybe 0.

[Bunno]

I'm gonna go lurk now

this game is 70% less fun with no gambits

[Bunno]

but I don't think he's seeing the value of claiming anymore?

I'm, but now that the situation is different it's not that different to do something simple like

Give the bug to someone in day phase + doctors protect beetle N1 + Sentries guard it N2 + Doctors protect it N3

There's better alternatives, but they involve risk and it feels a chore to explain/convince people on it. This PL seems too cautious/hesitant.

I'm not super opposed at this point to just playing this normally. It's a bit of a waste but I tried. I don't want to keep bashing heads here.

Bunno, let's reel this in. What is ONE non-mechanic based take you have?

S&M is kinda scummy but not to a degree I feel confident on voting or putting as a read

I feel they've been trying to look like the "goody-two-shoes" in thread in a way I often expect mafia to do (see mutantdevil in PicketyPickety for reference), but eh maybe it's just town. I don't have anything else atm, bugspray is been weirdposting but I've learned from experience I don't understand him more often than not, Herta seems very unfocused on the game but it's not something that seems to contrast his personality. Maybe he's just casual/chill/new on games.

[Bunno]

Norwegian's setup thingy seems NAI

I would scum lean you for sound tryhard taly but I've learned as well that it's just your playstyle. (I did indeed hard scum read you in the Chiptune game before replacing in).

I don't have any hot takes here.

[Bunno]

Wait, are you a Churros alt?

Yeah

[Bunno]

Ok this is the safest play here if we're gonna be scaredy cats:

N1 - All Sentries steal , Surgeons Protect Randomly , Gardeners Investigate Randomly

N2 - Sentries (Group B) Guards , Surgeons Protect Caretaker N2 , Gardeners Prevent/Block the Player below them in the playerlist

N3 - Sentries (Group A) Guards , Surgeons Protects Caretaker , Gardeners Prevent/Block Randomly

All Sentries wasting their steal shots is bad but we can make use of it if all Gardeners investigates, because it means we may be able to confirm some of the Sentry claims later, just as well be able to guilty scum trying to claim doctor or gardener if they attempted to steal in N1.

N1 is the unique night on which mafia has low, but ok chances on stealing the bug. In N2 they need to waste their RB to attempt a steal as long as we've 1 doctor. N3 they have ok chances again but it can't be helped, it's LyLo or pre-LyLo if the game isn't over. (sorry I don't know what other word to use here?).

Group B Sentries consist of 2 or less players randomly chosen, it's just a small insurance in case we don't have a doctor.

Group A is the majority of the alive players.

Spicy Option:

If the "about-to-be-hammered" player claims something other than doctor, we can have one doctor that's being suspected voluntarily reveal himself, and that doctor alone will try to operate at night. That means mafia will need to either:

- Roleblock him

- Nightkill him

Which forces Mafia to have a 0% chance of winning in N1 OR to waste their roleblock (They can still win in N1 by randomly getting lucky with their nightkill on the sentry that receives the bug). Not counting the fact that if he's being suspected, mafia needs to nightkill lynchbait.

[Bunno]

The above means voting for no one to receive the bug today.

It's bad to have sentries waste their shot but now that my thing is ruined, I feel there's no other option that is as "safe" as this.

[Bunno]

Resume:

We get one confirmed town, it's a bit harder to fakeclaim doctor or gardener therefore Sentry becomes the new VT.

That's it.

[Bunno]

I don't think it's that easy. Do we vote the people to receive the beetle in accordance with who the gardner claims say they targeted? Scum 1 can claim gardener and say they targeted scum2 and then we give the beetle to scum2 and lose.
I don't see how these claims benefit town in any way. VOTE: Bunno

Have you actually read the thread...?

[Bunno]

Yes. I didn't see you address how scum can fakeclaim gardener anywhere and just get the free win

Even if scum did fakeclaim in that scenario, they wouldn't get to choose who we would lock their targets into, it's pretty unlikely we would pick the exact pairing of scum to target each other.

What would be more likely to happen is scum to roleblock a certain gardener if they are chosen to be blocked by the gardener, but I already explained I never intended to actually vote those targets later, it was merely a distraction/bait for other plans.

[Bunno]

Scum wouldn't have incentive to fakeclaim in that scenario, they would most likely want to be targeted by a gardener, claim to have lost the ability to receive the bug, and when we get to the test they end up winning.

That's what they would want to happen even if they didn't believe in my plan. Regardless of wheter they would believe or not in my plan, it would be in their best interest to not claim gardener, which was my intention. Even if they for some weird reason decided to fakeclaim it, I would bet likely only one of them would do it. Therefore we could use that information after the claims were over, and decide if it's better to remove the alternative wincon or to utilize sentry steal/defend abilities to create conftowns.

[Bunno]

If we randomly choose one scum with any of our gardeners then they get roleblocked and then scum autowins. I don't see how this is a good idea at al.

what part of that was exactly what I wanted them to do (waste their roleblock on someone), except I wouldn't actually vote them later you didn't understand bugspray...?

They would think that was a good idea, likely roleblock someone as you said, and later I would change directions.

[Bunno]

If they had seen through my bluff, they would likely stay quiet, wait to be targeted by a gardener, think they were smart by wasting their roleblock on gardener actions, and missed the opportunity to fakeclaim gardener later when I reveal it was a bluff.

If they hadn't seen through my bluff, they would be too scared of claiming gardener, and likely still would have tried to roleblock gardener actions to delay their "confirmed town" status.

The plan was mainly to make the gardeners claims as pure as possible, make mafia waste their RB and be able to better coordinate Sentry/Doctor actions better considering how much of them we approximately have here.

Do you get it now bugspray? It's very simple when you boil it down to the essence.

[Bunno]

banana-scum

banana-scum...

[Bunno]

You guys are rather mischievous, claiming now that I had given up on you all...



I'm not going to complain though

I don't necessarily need anyone else to claim in D1 either way if you don't want, 2 is enough for now. I'll explain why.

[Bunno]

Rather, stop claiming at all before we come to a consensus on wheter to massclaim or not.

Two people claims are enough for Day 1.

[Bunno]

Let's do a mathematic magic trick in that case.

Let's call it The

Schadenfreude's Lovers

[Bunno]

Oh wait...that's not the correct term. The correct one is

Schrödinger's Lovers

. Although the previous name works if you consider mafia feelings.

Either way it preferable works this way:

We've two players to claim non-gardener and be paired up, if you ignore the case scenario where we magically pick exactly both scum, it means that there's a 50% chance of there being a single doctor in that pairing no matter what. Ignoring a "both-scum" pick, we've:

- There's a 40% chance the pairing has exactly one doctor

- There's a 20% chance the pairing has two doctors

The chances are even higher if you actually pick two townies, it turns into 50% chance of one doctor in the pairing, but I digress.

The important note here is to take a chance on activating the surgeons operation power effectively. To do that we need for two different doctors to operate each in two different nights successfully. They only have one-shot on doing so.

However, they can't reveal themselves or else mafia can perfectly counter it, therefore we did need to narrow it down like this with a no-gardener claim to increase the probabilities of doctor pairings, but still have sentry claims among them to clamoufage.

This outted pairing which we'll call "the lovers", will have any doctors on it perform the operation during the night. Sentries on that pairing won't do anything to save their abilities.

That way, we guarantee:

- There's a 40% chance there'll be always one Sentry managing to save a 1-shot steal/defend/guard

- There's a 40% chance we'll have only one doctor in the pairing, therefore a 40% chance everyday of activating the operation that reveals one of the mafia

If mafia tries to roleblock/kill one of the pairings:

- There's a 20% chance they'll help us out, by killing one doctor in a doctor/doctor pairing

- There's a 40% chance the pairing will be [doctor + sentry], however even if they try to roleblock/kill one of them, there's a 50% chance they'll miss, therefore a 20% chance to backfire at all times.

In conclusion, even if they try to roleblock/kill one of them, they've a 40% chance of not doing anything useful.

We're 40% likely to have the operation succeed regardless of wheter mafia tries to roleblock/kill them, except in the case they both roleblock/nightkill them, but if that makes them waste their ability like that, it's not a bad deal is it?

If the operation succeeds, every lover involved in the operations up to that point begins massclaiming for us to trace who were the doctors in the pairing. We can speculate some confirmed townies out of that, and wheter the roleblock has been used up or not. Mafia can try to fakeclaim but we still gain a 50% chance of eliminating scum if they do.

If the roleblock is confirmed to have been wasted, we can also likely get one more conftown by any sentries that have saved up their shots.

[Bunno]

From a pretty much 0% chance of the surgeon's ability being activated, We've created a 40% chance of it activating everyday regardless of what mafia does. If we pick pairings that are both town, it's a 50% chance of activating it everyday.

I think the chance of both Taly/John being town by the way they claimed isn't bad, but most likely they aren't scum together.

If we manage to activate the operation, we get one guilty scum + 2 extra confirmed townies.

Did you like the magic trick?

[Bunno]

By the way stop claiming

We could try to take things a step further but it involves risk, and I'm not in the mood anymore for now

This is enough justification to have had two people claim not-gardener, isn't it?

Let's stop, I'm off to watch anime/work.

[Bunno]

Oh right, last thing about the strategy:

It's optimal to have the towniest players to be the lovers since nightkilling on the pair doesn't make a difference + it's better to have [town + town] pairings, but even ignoring the former, it's important to have the townier players do it first because each doctor can only do it once, and the townier players are going to be nightkilled anyway, while the scummy ones are going to late-game.

[Bunno]

If more people claim I'm not going to assume responsability, I said to claim before, now it doesn't matter and it's a bit negative if we massclaim and try to play a safe game.

I'm a moody person and I'm not interested in doing risky plays here anymore for now. The lovers plan is enough for day 1.

It's also better to not massclaim at the moment for an extra reason but I can't explain.

[Bunno]

Actually...I think there's a possibility of an auto-win if the operation is successful and the doctors aren't killed hmm...

Which means in Day 2 / Day 3 you should choose people that are a bit more scummy and likely to survive endgame. It was important to get a town pair in the first night to boost the possibility of the first operation getting done though.

If the 2 operations gets done when there's only one mafia alive, it's game over.

If the 2 operations get done while there's two mafia alive, we can gain up to 2 confirmed townies which can end up outing mafia in 5p:

(Beetle + IC + IC vs Mafia + Mafia)

Literally auto-win even if we've 0 scum caught by Day 3.

[Bunno]

If you're going to give the bug to someone, you should choose someone outside of [Taly + John] by the way, or else you risk ruining the unique town auto-win you can get.

You've a 25% chance of auto-winning this game by Day 3 as long as we choose town/town pairs.

You've a 16% chance of auto-winning this game by Day 3 as long as we don't choose scum/scum pairs.

[Bunno]

I actually think there's a not-impossible chance of John/Taly being exactly the mafia pairing by claiming non-gardener because they thought I was being dumb and they could use me to get more info on town, but I digress.

Time will tell everything, as it always does.

[Bunno]

As long as John/Taly are both town, the unique way for mafia to stop a 25% chance of we auto-winning in Day 3 is by roleblocking/nightkilling them at the same time tonight, that would make impossible for us to win by Day 3 with both mafia alive, but still possible to win by Day 4.

Now, now, what will you choose red ones?

Think wisely about it.

You should all gate the Day 2 claims as well. You should choose a pool of players that you can vaguely trust and have them claim non-gardener. No one else should claim gardener by now. Don't let people claim by themselves.

[Bunno]

I'm going to announce my prevent/ability remove target by day's end. I'll try to choose someone unlikely to get eliminated in the next day, but likely to get brought to LyLo.

[Bunno]

This outted pairing which we'll call "the lovers", will have any doctors on it perform the operation during the night. Sentries on that pairing won't do anything to save their abilities.

So, out of

Johnny/I

, neither of us should be votes to be healed as Mafia can ALSO claim no gardener and be "functionally truthful" in that claim.

And any doctors within

Johnny/I

will be used to operating Dr. Zenkava or another player?

And any sentries within

Johnny/I

will be loose with abilities; stealing, defending, or guarding per the player's discretion?

Is this an accurate summary of your plan?

Yes, except any sentries within you should save up abiltites, in other words do nothing today. It can become handy in N3 and even confirm one of you as town later.

[Bunno]

The reason that you shouldn't be healed is different as well though

The beetle will become confirmed town, any doctor/sentries inside of you will have an opportunity to become confirmed later, be it by the surgeon operation or by sentry's steal. If any of you receives the beetle, rather than getting 2 or 1 confirmed townies, we would only get one or zero.

In a small setup like this, even one confirmed town is very powerful.

[Bunno]

The doctors inside of you will be operating Dr.Zenkava. We can get both a guilty and two confirmed townies out of it later with a bit of luck.

[Bunno]

If the mafia tries to kill the doctors to prevent a scenario where they aren't endgamed by the Dr.Zenkava's operation, they'll need to give up on pursuing the elected beetle today since none of you will receive the bug, therefore they would be giving up on their second wincon.

We either make they:

- Give up on winning by stealing the beetle
- Give us a likely 25% chance of auto-win
- Make them use their roleblock ability

There's more to this plan, but for today this is all I can say. You need to protect me tonight to see more tomorrow.

[Bunno]

This game is slow enough that we don't have enough time to discuss too much without mech taking all the deadline, so I'll give you two other cherry bombs already:

1) If you manage to not make Sentries use steal until later in game, Gardeners turn into Trackers/Cops. Only mafia would use steal in that world therefore anyone that used steal could be guilted.

2) You don't have a 22% chance of losing by giving the beetle to someone in the dayphase, you've a ridiculous 55% chance of losing by doing it blindly.

There's a 22% chance of losing by giving the beetle to mafia,

but there's a 33% chance of losing by electing a surgeon as a caretaker

.

Surgeons can't be healed by other surgeons, you can at most make sentries protect the beetle twice (by mass-steal or by mass-defend + mass- Guard), that means the beetle will definitely be exposed to be stolen during one night. This is the second easiest way to win this game.

If you use mass-steal by sentries though, Gardener's investigations are useless. Not mentioning the fact that currently mafia would have a 33% or 25% chance of winning by targeting someone for (NK & steal) outside of me/Taly/John tonight, since we're either claimed or not going to use steal.

[Bunno]

This is a read early morning. Are we also getting blocked by gardeners?

I haven't a solid opinion on that yet, but I don't think so at the moment.

I tend to forget important things sometimes though...

[Bunno]

By the current gamestate, you've:

- a 55% chance of losing by giving beetle to a mafia or surgeon through healing.

-

33% chance of losing if you choose for sentries to steal beetle tonight

, since mafia can target both their NK & steal on someone outside of [Taly/John/Me], given we won't be stealing tonight (if you manage to eliminate a mafia during dayphase, your odds of losing this way still are 25%, not that great).

[Bunno]

There's of course a perfect counter to it though... ~~

Electing a certain claimed Gardener to receive the beetle today :' ) hahahahahaa

[Bunno]

The unique alternatives here is

- Give up on the lovers plan, have everyone spam steal, hope that mafia miss their 16% chance of stealing in N1 (There's 6 targets for NK/steal in mafia's pov, since I already claimed Gardener)

- Elect someone else for the beetle but have they claim and risk revealing even more setup info. If you expose one surgeon that way, we likely can't operate Dr.Zerakawa anymore.

I look forward to your choices

[Bunno]

bunno is so scummy how do yall not feel this vibe tht im checking

[Bunno]

why not just give the beetle to me and then i dont claim?

I see, you've problem reading things to understand why there's a natural 33% chance of losing in the long-run by giving the bug to someone without them having claimed

if you claim by the way I'm gonna scum read you because there's no reason for you to claim other than try to receive the bug, and I already don't like your slot.

[Bunno]

Welp, I'm not forcing anyone to vote for me ~~

I'm probably the best option here though

[Bunno]

You're giving off mass kittybell vibes.

[Bunno]

Now I've done everything I possibly can for Day 1

The rest is up to you

feel free to WIFOM me or...vote bugspray



HEAL: Bunno

[Bunno]

If you want me to be honest, If I was mafia I wouldn't go through this hassle because you guys didn't seem to notice that giving the beetle in the dayphase has a natural 55% chance of backfiring, or the fact that as long as you make two or three people claim + lovers plan, mafia has a 33% chance or so of stealing the bug by NK if you don't choose a caretaker during the dayphase (if you choose a caretaker, the lovers plan is very safe yes).

I wouldn't need to hurt the credit I was getting by pursuing the beetle. I'm only pursuing the beetle because as town it's clear to me it's very very optimal for me to have it here. Especially since I've a lot more of mech to say in the next days depending on what mafia does.

My reads are mechanical based because I haven't seen anything worth in players posts. If you want my opinion on eliminations today, I would policy suggest either bug or herta, their posting is bad but I'm not sure it's necessarily scummy.

I don't have a lot of interest at the moment in pursuing scum as much as I've on setting a good mechanical strategy for town.

[Bunno]

Oh wait

Bug may actually be scum

I just noticed his last post was on today's morning, but as soon as I posted I wanted the beetle, he commented as if he was reading the thread along

Reading the thread but not commenting is a massive scum tell, I know for a fact I do it a lot as scum as do other people.

[Bunno]

I do wonder if it's not something stupid like Bug + Herta and I'm wasting my time preparing so many strategies...

Now that's a new level of sad

[Bunno]

Hmm I'm ok with this for now

VOTE: bugspray

why were you reading the thread but not commenting until I said about receiving the beetle?

[Bunno]

Oh wait

Norwe is probably scum btw

sorry Norwe, my mistake in our past game was to be too nice for you, but I learned the hard way that in mafia games I need to push friends too

[Bunno]

Norwe is probably scum btw

I'll not explain this read for now but I feel like

Norwe is scummy here atm

[Bunno]

Actually

VOTE: Norwe

I dunno if bug is scum or just weird, but norwe is sus atm.

It's not the main reason, but notice how he says he's curious about my mech solve, but when we begin discussing it he just vanishes. He was posting elsewhere meanwhile by the way.

I doubt that if he was really curious he wouldn't read and comment on it a bit later, he was online multiple times since that post.

Norwe's opening is intense asking around simple mechanical questions. I feel like that's a likely scum!Norwe opening.

[Bunno]

He was

intensely

posting elsewhere during that time by the way.

I've a hard time believing that he would vanish and not look back on this later (he was online at least 3 times by now).

[Bunno]

if you claim by the way I'm gonna scum read you because there's no reason for you to claim other than try to receive the bug, and I already don't like your slot.

i don't care about what caught scum thinks of my slot

This is sad if you're town

[Bunno]

I suspected norwe of being scum (rightfully) in the first 10 pages of our most recent game

I got sidetracked and ended up keeping it as a pet scum read during the game, but I did notice early something wrong with Norwe's slot.

I'm noticing the same thing here, so if I'm wrong I want him to come around and show me.

[Bunno]

Bugspray if I was scum my fear of you is exactly 0 to be honest

I would only see you as an easy mislynch I could cook

no reason to "run away" from you at all

If I wanted to sound convincing on my vote on you I could have lied, but I'm just that spontaneous as town

[Bunno]

then stop running away from me and give credibility to your norwee read

I'm not running away and I'm only doing this once, I've no reason to keep making things easy for you. You've barely read the game and keep not replying other people questions.

To explain why I did scum read norwe in that game would need to explain the entire game context, but I shortly explained it nice in that game:

I don't feel Norwegian is actually trying to solve this game for real reading his ISO

How can I be misreading Norwe if he's town as well...

where's your town spark norwe...I could swear I always see it.

Result:

Game is over, The Mafia team of Saudade Odd night Ninja, Nero Mafia Goon and

NorwegianboyEE Even-night Jailor

wins!

It's not about what norwe does, is what he doesn't do in his scum games.

[Bunno]

Contrast the above to the game before that one, where we were both town

Hi everyone, how’s it going y’all? Just popping in to show that i am indeed reading the game and participating in the discussion. I see we’re all making RVS votes, well that is totally cool. I can do that too, as evidenced by my vote below. Always such a good time playing together with the brilliant players at Mafia scum tehe~
Hope you all have a nice day and a big greeting to you all~!
VOTE: 72offsuit

I'm glad you rolled town Norwe.

Yes, 7 out of 10 times I think you post this as town rather than scum.

I'm playing this casually so I'll throw a TR already on you. If you're scum I think I'm gonna sense it by some point.

I had a town read on him in page 2.

Page 2.

[Bunno]

bunno can you quote some norwee posts about each game and show why you think a similar thing is happening?

by the way i would consider this to be a very effective way to give credibility to your meta read on pooky

I've no meta read on pooky. WTF.

YOU

SAID THAT

YOU

HAD META ON POOKY

i sr pooky on an unexplainable brain worm meta vibe check

You said that it was unexplainable as well, but you request I explain my meta read (that doesn't even exist on pooky)?

Dude you're drunk and scummy as fuck. You shouldn't get anywhere the bug or late game.

If I can town read Norwe I'm doing you.

[Bunno]

Bunno u acting kinda sus ngl.

mood

80% of the time I'm sus I'm town though

you're actually sus tho

[Bunno]

I hyperpost as either alignment and you know it

In fungi mafia people literally got angry at me because I wouldn't shut up

[Bunno]

In Team Mafia I kept posting pikachu gifs to Flavor Leaf because I was ultra tunneled on him

I'm more interested on how you seem to be commenting as if you know what's going on in the game when you've not posted here it's been 24 hours.

You should have plenty of pages to catch up but it's almost like you've been reading the game but not posting.

[Bunno]

Who is Churros and what does that have to do with this game

...

Proof you aren't reading this game.

I've already confirmed to Taly I'm Churros, and she's been mentioning me as churros multiple times.

I don't know what to say to you.

[Bunno]

I skimmed most of the game because mech talk was too heavy for me. I trust Pooky slot though. As i've explained reason for earlier.

My turn to use C9++

When we were talking about mech there, you even made a giant ass post to keep track of everything and figure out

you seem really non-chalant about this game.

[Bunno]

pedit
i didnt read any taly posts and skimmed most of yours because a lot of them just were too thick with content i didn't find useful

translation:

You aren't reading the game, neither my posts, but think I'm scum.

I don't use this often, I find it not cool, but you're genuinely dumb or obvious scum.

[Bunno]

bunno if you gave something actually compelling and substantial wrt the norwee meta then i'd be voting norwee and healing you rn but i just cant do that in good faith rn, ya feel?

Why do you want lockscum to understand your feelings?

By the way no, I don't understand you.

[Bunno]

I feel happy with putting more pressure on this slot for now until i've caught up to current events more. I might need someone to explain mechanics talk so far because i really didn't pay much attention to it.

Literally said that skipped all mech talk but still wants someone to explain

I even made TL;DRs of it in the last page

[Bunno]

ME AND TALY HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE UNIQUE PEOPLE POSTING IN THIS GAME

IF YOU AREN'T READING OUR POSTS YOU LITERALLY AREN'T READING THE GAME

IT'S NOT AD HOMINEM, YOU JUST CONSTANTLY PROVE YOU DON'T READ THE GAME BUG

[Bunno]

Ok Norwe if you this is the kind of post you're gonna do I'm locking my read on you

I was expecting you to post useful stuff or at least attempt to talk to me.

[Bunno]

If both Norwe/Bugs are town I'm ok with self-voting.

I think I've said it twice but I've only found one of the examples. Anyway how it went:

viewtopic.php?p=11753085#p11753085 - Doubles Mafia

If Cakez in Halloween/

BBMolla

in xmas doesn't win the game you can vote me in D4 and I'll not bitch about it.

Wanna have fun BBMolla?

Let's venge-lynch each other.

If you're so confident that I'm scum as you've been in more than 200 pages, you can surely do this with me.

Your best shot at lynching me here is actually agreeing to venge kill each other.

As long as you self-vote today, I'm going to self-vote for the rest of the game if you flip town.

Result:

The Town of

Trojan Horses
We are not helping
Titus
Eve
gobbledygook
jjh

churros

< (I was town)
farside22
northsidegal
Wonderwalll
Vecna
Nero Cain
Baezu
SirCakez

Is victorious!

(quote note: BBMolla isn't in the list)

BBMolla was scum, not reading my posts, and saying I was caught scum as well.

I feel the same vibe from bug/norwe, maybe one but probably not both town.

[Bunno]

I'll say I'm a bit hesitant to call this to this level of conflict, but their posts are so nonsensical that I'm ok with the risk...I think.

Like, it's just too dumb to be town.

I don't think I did this as scum by the way.

The unique time I said I would self-vote as scum that I remember of, is in Baton Pass, when Oversoul said he would self-vote himself if I did self-vote myself at the next day (he was town suspecting me and I was scum, I didn't want to agree with him at all but he started to pressure me a lot).

If I ever said about self-voting later as scum, I would have had a plan to not make it happen, there's no such thing here because there's no way I can fakeclaim anything in this setup.

[Bunno]

I know personally that bugs is weird but he's just impossible here

Norwe coming in, saying he skimmed mech talk, but asking for someone to explain mech for him is kinda like ???

Norwe doesn't feel interested in solving this game at all

I'll take a bath and try to cool off, I've reads + setup strategy, Idk if I have anything else to do here.

[Bunno]

The post intention is to be LAMIST...I rarely do "I'll self-vote" thing unless I feel very confident on it.

You should know as well that I often talk about how I play as scum when I'm town.

Your/bugs position here is really lackluster. You even commented on how I commented about claims, but say you still don't get mech talk

You clearly glossed over my posts but isn't absorving them.

[Bunno]

There's like, 8 new pages since you've last posted Norwe, you admitted you skimmed them, but the unique thing you've is a lackluster SR on me after I said I was SR'ing you.

You aren't even attempting to read slots like Herta, Bugs or etc. You're focusing solely on me that began targeting you.

You've come pretty fast here after I mentioned you, which makes me think you were simply not interested in posting here.

Am I wrong somewhere? I don't think I'm that bad at reading you but you're only giving me red signals.

[Bunno]

I don't feel like you're trying to hold a conversation with me Norwe.

I think town!you would try to hold a conversation with me first.

[Bunno]

Ok Norwe I just remembered as well

Last time you saw me playing scum (I don't have any other scum games after that one), I actually said I wouldn't put effort into being scum anymore. You even mentioned it somewhere else I think. Why would you expect me hyperposting to be scummy either way?

I don't think I would put "super" low-effort in a scum game anymore, but you did seem to have taken me on my word back then.

[Bunno]

norwegian is churros mafia
churros is norwegian mafia

I stealth read one of Churros scum games lately. And Churros said they wouldn’t tryhard as scum anymore. So if they tryhard they are town probably.

[Bunno]

Norwe are you really scum? :/

[Bunno]

Yeah you were mafia there but that doesn't mean you didn't read that game and what I said in post-game

I'm trying to understand why you would completely ignore it here? Didn't you ever wondered about it while reading me here?

[Bunno]

You took a break from mafia games, it's not out of the question that you rolled scum and decided you would tryhard this setup that you found really "fun" as you call it.

Yeah I don't think I town read you at all...

let's kill each other while posting anime gifs/pics

[Bunno]

pls die norwe

[Bunno]

Why did you roll scum??

Why???

I even told you to bribe the mod

[Bunno]

I kinda like the fact Herta is reading the game and commenting on it in his own pace rather than trying to make comments on people overall posting.

Properly reading the game is a rare trait here. You've gotta to appreciate it when you see it.

[Bunno]

I don't like readlists but maybe I should give one here more or less

[---] - People I trust
[Taly, S&M] - ehh maybe it's town
[Herta, John] - doesn't taste super bad
[other people] - i don't fucking know
[bugspray] - absolute unit of alien logic
[norwegian] - not seeing anything outside his usual scum meta/behavior

[Bunno]

Pooky posting is atrocious but Nancy posting is...good?

that's what is weird though, I expected nancy to do more...nancy things.

But for now I'm ok with it.

[Bunno]

that's what is weird though, I expected nancy to do more...nancy things.

this isn't bad mouthing by the way

it's just that I don't remember ever seeing a nancy's alt and not immediatelly thinking "ah it's nancy" after 5 pages or so.

I don't feel Nancy usual posting here at all though. If you said Mirror was someone else I would nod my head.

[Bunno]

Ok but now real talk

I've wasted my recent days posting here / thinking about the setup

I've posted a shit ton of content

Now I need to lurk to do my personal things, I'll even uninstall the browser to stop coming here out of curiosity I think.

I don't think there's a lot to talk about anymore either way. I'm tired.



Bye

@mod I'm V/LA during weekends (Saturday/Sunday)

[Bunno]

I know personally that bugs is weird but he's just impossible here

Norwe coming in, saying he skimmed mech talk, but asking for someone to explain mech for him is kinda like ???

Norwe doesn't feel interested in solving this game at all

I'll take a bath and try to cool off, I've reads + setup strategy, Idk if I have anything else to do here.

my pronouns are they/them

baths are amazing

I hadn't noticed this before

I'll try to correct myself from now on

I recommend leaving the pronoun in the signature as white, I actually had read your sign but not noticed that part until you pointed it out (mafblack)

[Bunno]

In fact I'll try to change to mafsepia for a while

mafblack is heavy on the eyes when you use it a lot

[Bunno]

so bright...mafiasepia is very charming...

[Bunno]

I remember Nancy asking me why I said she wasn't posting like her usual self

There's many little things that I feel give you a distinct style of posting Nancy, but maybe the most notable in a mafia game is how bold and persistent you're

Once you've made your mind on something it's very very hard to change your opinion, which makes you usually storm into the thread to advocate to that POV relentlessly

I felt like you weren't hard pushing for anything, but your recent discussion with bugs sound a lot more like usual Nancy

I would be able to guess it was you in that hydra now even if it was anonymous...that's usual Nancy for you...

[Bunno]

I felt like you weren't hard pushing for anything,

You were pushing for Herta but it was more like "herta you're scummy, are you being bad town or just scum?" which had a feeling you were hesitant

I feel like usual Nancy is more like

"OMG you're so scummy HOW can you be town thinking that? FFS!"

"WHY is X scum? They did Y, no way they're scum, are you scum?!"

"Z is never town, if they're town their play is very bad"

"I'm SO OBVIOUSLY inside my town meta FFS! Can't you see it?!"

But like, your recent posting feels very usual Nancy...

[Bunno]

Ok I've thought about it and it's actually funny

since I did one of Nancy here is a parody of myself for her to not be alone:

" I'm town for X, Y, Z, S, K and J. If you don't get that idk what to say to you, you don't know my meta"

"No I'm not hyperposting too much, you guys are just too low-activity " - he said after posting non stop for an entire page

"I don't need to let the thread breath, I'm its oxygen already, if I let the thread breath it dies"

"hi I'm your usual disgusting gif poster, here's a gif >insert shitty anime gif here probably out of context< "

"what do you mean other people are inconvenienced by my gif posts? what do you mean I need to stop selfishly having fun?"

"CAN WE ELIMINATE SOMEONE ALREADY I'M TIRED OF WAITING WHEN I'VE MADE UP MY MIND"

">

INSERT HERE

VERY ANGRY

CAPSLOCK RAGE AFTER 2 ~ 3 PAGES OF A 1V1

<"

"My death tunnels are town indicative and they often flip scum, idk you guys should follow me y'know?"

[Bunno]

This next one may sound very lamist but I still want to post because it's funny

The above I feel it's 70% annoying things I do more often as town, except gifs. If you tried to meta, you could say gifs are kinda scum indicative to me, I've posted them more on scum games than in town games, but they reflect my mood more than anything else. When I'm town I often get too serious on something and I usually post gifs when I'm in a playful mode (which did happen more as scum in the past).

Either way this is your usual scum!Bunno as well:

"I'M NOT CREATING DRAMA, YOU'RE THE ONE CREATING DRAMA BY EXISTING"

"no look I'm 99% sure the guy flips scum, I've never felt so confident on a read in my life, sheep me."

"I'm kinda bored by you guys TvT so I'll just post anime gifs [>anime gif<]. "

"hi guys I'm a Pi*-shot novice odd-night redirector blue-orange sparking light detector, I know it's an unusual role but if you look carefully it makes TOTAL sense to exist in the setup"

"hi scum pt partners, now that the game it's in page 3 our PERFECT plan is in motion and NOTHING can stop us, I'm very sure that X's rvs vote indicates Y and Z, which means we should do K and..."

"ok scum pt partners, but what if the town setup in this normal queue game is secretly pumpkins that literally shot lasers out of its asses? we need a plan to counter that fam"

[Bunno]

that might be my bad influence sorry

~smoke

no no no

I was born this way, I'm pretty sure

[Bunno]

making parody of players is genuinely the most fun I've had in mafia game in a while, I plan to continue

I'll tactically call it "understanding X's player meta" to have a justification to shitpost it constantly.

[Bunno]

usual scum!Norwe meta:

"hi guys, the ones saying that I lurk more as scum are hideous liars, now excuse me because I'm not in the mood to produce content here"

"ah right, I did town read X but since everyone is voting X now I totally feel like I've had my eyes opened to his scuminess"

"ok my scum reads have constantly been the top wagons but that's NOT actually scummy. It's called coincidence."

"*munch munch munch* yeah you guys are right on that take, definitely not lynchbait, definitely scum *munch munch munch* see you"

[Bunno]

Who does everyone think we should heal.

Bugspray

pinnacle of good healing

[Bunno]

norwe imagine reading the game

imagine producing content

imagine having reads

sorry if I'm wrong but it's becoming hard to believe it

[Bunno]

The one supporting my decision because of my gardener claim is S&M

I don't think Taly is healing me because of that, she simply town reads me I think

[Bunno]

[Bunno]

I couldn't resist

[Bunno]

I'm genuinely interested on what norwe/bugs will say if I receive the bug and get to confirmed town

I'm off again

[Bunno]

did i do good bunno? am i getting that scummy award? <3

probably

the unique doubt I've left that norwe is scum is that this has been ridiculously easy and he's showing no resistance whatsoever.

He's like, not even attempting to turn the tables...

I'm not sure what to expect in scum!norwe in this position, I've never seen scum!him being pressured.

[Bunno]

Y u LeAvE whenever i ENTER the thread senpai!?!? i need u to coach me IN the PT and IN the THREAD

we discussed this!

we need to keep pretending we're different people

don't spoil them pls

[Bunno]

Hey Tay. What reads from those pages?

that it was super boring. youre prolly town, which is weird for me to say. not really willing to give bunno townpoints for the gambit because its mech and easy for scum to fake and because bunno likes to do that as both alignments. didnt really get much out of it tho.

ohonyo

how do you know what I play like as scum? You've never played against scum!me, neither did I play a scum game close to your register date?

[Bunno]

Hello guys! I'm viz and I'm replacing bugspray as you have probably read.

I remember reading your first post in the forum (a newbie introduction thread I think)

how nostalgic to see you here

I only remember you because of the avi though

[Bunno]

viz most of what you said was already addressed early in the game by me

There's so many holes on those plans that I won't bother to create a wall, but with me being gardener claimed already,

in YOUR PLAN

, mafia has AT ABSOLUTE MINIMUM a 16% chance of winning in N1 by selecting a random [NK & steal] target outside of me (already claimed not-sentry). If you include the fact Taly/John aren't supposed to use steal by our plan if any of they are sentries, we've a 33% chance of losing in N1 by a random NK/steal target by mafia if we miseliminate here. If we eliminate mafia today they would still have a 25% chance.

The fact every sentry would use steal in that world would make gardener investigations useless in N1 (and it's not wise for them to block in N1 in your plan because it can end up blocking a sentry and making mafia win), while if you gate sentries steal, the unique people to attempt steal are mafia therefore any player investigated that shows an attempt to steal starting from N1 is guilted. You can literally turn Gardeners into Detectives as long as you gate sentries, but in your plan their investigation power becomes useless.

I'm not even mentioning the fact that if you keep not executioning someone in dayphase you'll run out of sentries abilities to defend, and surgeons can't heal consecutively, therefore you'll get the bug stolen in N4 onwards

If you're interested in mech stuff read the early pages of this game. I address a lot of things.

[Bunno]

I kind of think scum!Norwee would be attempting to push some kind of agenda but so far, I don’t think we’re really seeing that.

What weirds me most isn't the fact scum!Norwe should be attempting to push an agenda

is why town!Norwe would be letting me pile up votes on him and get the bug if he really believes I'm scum

Look, if he has this firm belief I'm scum, he should understand I'm in the path to victory here in D1. Why is he being so non-chalant about it?

His actions are a bit off for what you would expect from scum, but it's even harder to understand why town would act like this.

[Bunno]

If I was scum I'm 2 votes away from victory.

Even supposing I wouldn't get the bug, there's already 3 players suspecting his slot and siding with me

John seems to trust me as well I think?

town!Norwe should feel at least slightly more pressured in the situation but he seems pretty chill about it, almost as if he knew that me getting the bug has no real consequence.

[Bunno]

Don't let me saying "this is unexpected" about Norwe fool you into thinking his slot is anything but scummy in my eyes at the moment

I just don't know, I definitely can't wrap my head around town!Norwe thinking I'm powerwolfing but still letting me run the show

but I similarly have problem in a scenario where scum!Norwe instantly gives up once I'm on him...

The later seems more likely than the former but...I'm mulling it over.

Norwe you could explain your thought process here by the way

[Bunno]

Bugspray was at least indignant about me receiving the bug, but Norwe isn't. He's only caring about this game from a "I must have town reads, scum reads" perspective, but even though he seems so confident on me being scum he isn't attempting to defuse me getting the bug, differently from bugspray that wanted to nom themselves at least.

If I'm scum this game is being almost won by me at this point, but he still hasn't tried to get people out of healing me.

He clearly understands the bug mechanic as well, in one of his posts he even asks "who should we heal".

[Bunno]

His top town read S&M is healing me, but in no moment he tried to talk to them or suggest healing them. Almost as if he's not confident he can get the bug himself therefore it doesn't matter who receives it, even if currently it looks like his top scum read will get it.

There's probably no other objectively scummier behavior than what Norwe has done so far?

[Bunno]

Who does everyone think we should heal.

^ His top SR is getting the bug but he's not attempting to heal his top TR, but rather asking to the majority what they should do

I feel Norwegian has no agency of his own in the game, he's only trying to surf the waves generated by us, but he's not trying to change anything by himself even though his reads should pressure him to.

[Bunno]

Norwe if you really think I'm scum why are you letting me run the show so easily?

[Bunno]

Believe me, town!Taylor is capable of RVS voting in the first pages and never removing the vote up to day 1 end.

[Bunno]

I'm waiting for Norwe's to reply me but it seems he is gonna ignore me

[Bunno]

Ok I thought there was small possibility norwe was writing a massive wall about how I'm being a jerk, not letting him play, constantly shading him, etc

or a massive wall about his frustations, thought process in the game, etc

which would,

Ultimately lead to a scenario where we could make up if I was misreading him but I'm beginning to be very convinced he's officially giving up in this game and if you don't vote him you should consider it a sin in your scum hunting record.

[Bunno]

Ummm

he literally came to thread when I was asking him a pretty important question (I'm almost winning this game by now and he should stop me if he thinks I'm scum), but rather than doing anything he just left(?) the thread

Even if as town he hadn't realized he should stop me, I feel like he should be attempting something now that I explained how I'm gonna win as scum to him, but still...

I feel like this is a "yes please get over with this already" signal from him. Idk how to interpret it other than that.

[Bunno]

U know it's like 00:56 where i live right. I'm 2 tired to write a wall and was actually considering going to sleep.

I understand it's a bad time but I feel like, you would have at least replied to people if you were town norwe :'/

[Bunno]

im a psychic

you aren't

he's here

he's reading the thread as he just posted

but he's not really doing anything to oppose me...

[Bunno]

Town!Bunno should have pointed this out because I know very little escapes Bunno.

I'm flattered but I'm not sure what to say, I did notice he was talking as if he was scum!me but why would I point it out? I thought it was self-evident enough.

About that exchange with bugs overall, I don't feel anything bad or weird that I did. He was literally not reading both my/Taly posts but was scum reading me out of a poor understanding of my mech plans.

He didn't read my mech plans, but he began scum reading me from a poorly read/understood notion that my plans were trying to fool town.

I couldn't resist calling him potential dumb town, It's not one of my proudest moments as I don't like to attack the player but I could understand exactly 0 of where he was coming from.

I can at least vaguely understand why it's plausible town!Norwe could be suspicious of me maybe. I didn't understand bug at all though.

[Bunno]

S&M can you vote Norwe please?

I want to get this ball rolling. I feel it's a sin to not vote Norwe here after this recent exchange.

[Bunno]

Damn I forgot to refer to bugs as "them". Sorry bugs, at least you aren't here to see it.

[Bunno]

Ummm

he literally came to thread when I was asking him a pretty important question (I'm almost winning this game by now and he should stop me if he thinks I'm scum), but rather than doing anything he just left(?) the thread

Even if as town he hadn't realized he should stop me, I feel like he should be attempting something now that I explained how I'm gonna win as scum to him, but still...

I feel like this is a "yes please get over with this already" signal from him. Idk how to interpret it other than that.

This is scummy. 1:00 AM for him and you're doing this.

You do realize he posted "Ummm" by 00:12 AM, and he replied to me 4 minutes after I posted, therefore the chances he was following the thread are big,

right?

If he had gone to sleep I wouldn't have said anything, it's the fact I could see he was logged in that made me think poorly of it.

First I felt like he kinda lurked without posting between pages 7 ~ 13, but the pattern just keeps repeating itself.

Look I don't know if he changed but in my experience town!Norwe wouldn't let me boss things around like this if he was confident on me being scum. Especially if I was trying to pull one on him like this.

[Bunno]

It apparently wasn't self-evident. S&M has spent the last 24 hours not understanding it

I genuinely hadn't noticed it

I'm not reading S&M posts in great detail right now, I'm content with my read on them at the moment, and I don't mesh well with Nancy's logic

i often try to read Nancy for things other than the content she has been putting by itself. Like, rather than the content itself, which rate of consistency and enthusiasm has she been putting in the game?

Things like this.

I've been skimming some of her posts, especially of bugs/mech, because I'm focusing on Norwe atm.

Norwe feels genuinely like caught scum so far.

[Bunno]

I've also been for example skimming Taylor questions to players other than Norwe or myself, unless it's a particularly outstanding post.

You may not have much experience with Norwe, but his behavior to me is intensely scummy. Especially coming out of a semi-recent game where scum!him snowed me by staying-off-radar in thread.

[Bunno]

Taylor questions

Taly's questions*

confusing names

I often type without thinking

[Bunno]

It's not nitpicking

Don't try to make the whole case on Norwe about wheter he was in the mood to reply or not during late-night. It's first the fact of:

- He suddenly popped in thread after I mentioned my suspicious on him for the first time

- He had been online multiples times, and admitted to reading the thread before, but hadn't posted even after saying he was curious about my mech solve

- He hasn't been trying to defuse the situation of me getting the bug

- Has been here when I tried to address the above issue to him but isn't saying anything back

Even if you say it's a coincidence, coincidences are only pilling up more and more here. There's a point where you need to be skeptical of taking what happens in good faith. Maybe it's intentional.

[Bunno]

I do agree he had no reason to post "Ummm" to confirm his presence here though

I'll wait to see what he has to say next time he's online/has time in his hands

[Bunno]

I still recommend S&M to vote him though

If anyone feels confident on me being town I also recommend healing me because I'm very interested on what Norwe will do once I'm confirmed town

Now I'm off again. Maybe I'll not be back soon idk.

[Bunno]

(possible) Last post

I'm not asking Johnny because he hasn't said anything in open support of scum!norwe, I want to see what he'll do by himself

I do recommend him to vote norwe and heal me already though to progress this game. I doubt my mind will change by what Norwe will say next, he seems to not care.

[Bunno]

(possible²) last post

Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting

tl;dr everything he isn't being here

I literally don't objectively scum read Norwe's actions that much outside of the bug thing, like I said scum!Norwe is not what about he does, it's about what he isn't doing

I feel that his scum games content are always a bit lacking/unenthusiastic/mellow compared to his town ones, he doesn't seem to be deviating from that here.

[Bunno]

I'm off now for real. I'll try to resist opening the thread too much on Monday.