Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[Battle Mage]

Why Noraa? What did you think of narwhal?

why do you keep calling random canadian narwhal? it's confusing...

[Noraa]

Random has a prfpc of a narwhal lel

[Battle Mage]

I don't think it would be quite right to say Murdercat engaged with his townreads here - he seemed fairly indiscriminate

This much is true. I am not only using reactions to my case to read others I am also generally trying to increase activity

Interested to see the results of this analysis.

[MURDERCAT]

The thing that gets me about your Tayl0r case BM is that it seems to be mostly focused on things that happened page 1/2ish. It's page 38 and I don't believe you've said much about Tayl0r's votes, tayl0r's lack of info about Noraa meta, Tayl0r's generally lurkiness. Like there are recent things that I see in Tayl0r's iso that look to me to be more like they could be scum than the shitposts early on (including that recent comment about you once I started pushing you) but it feels like you dropped off from pushing those things when Tayl0r wagon lost some steam.

[Battle Mage]

be open to the possibility of being wrong.

I am open to it, but I want to hear it from other players. But ok let's talk about Tayl0r because that feels useful

lol that sound to me like "I'll begrudgingly accept you're town if I can't get enough people to buy into my case". Or are you telling me there's a scenario where lots of people agree with your case and you build some momentum, and you then second guess yourself? Because I don't believe that is your mindset at all.

Talk about Taylor - I'm listening!

[Infinity 324]

Let me level with you mate...

Murdercat-town gains plenty from talking to me, is seeing what I say and how I engage, and being able to evaluate my reactions and potentially even re-evaluate his own case. You're right it would be unusual for me to say you have an amazing case on me (although I would, and indeed have, acknowledge points of merit). But I think you've slightly missed the point here - Murdercat-town should care more about getting a correct elim today, and be open to the possibility of being wrong. I'm certain that if you're town, you have reasonable doubt about my alignment. Instead, your description of your objective sounds a lot more like eliminating me at all costs. You say you care about my opinion on Taylor - do you have particular questions on it?

Speaking of going back and forth without it being useful...

I don't know what to say, I could give you multiple examples, but I think addressing a case point-by-point is mostly NAI no matter how you do it, and I would even go so far as to say continuing an engagement like that with a scumread is bad play as town.

[MURDERCAT]

And sure you can say that you dropped off Tayl0r *because* it lost steam but it just looks weird to me that you stop pushing her at all and fall out of the game

[Jewel Barons]

Isis come talk to me about this? Are we seeing the same things?

you make a case on me, and care more about engaging Isis on it than me? interesting...

Why would you expect someone to opt to engage a scumread over a non-scumread?

-GAMMA

[Battle Mage]

The thing that gets me about your Tayl0r case BM is that it seems to be mostly focused on things that happened page 1/2ish. It's page 38 and I don't believe you've said much about Tayl0r's votes, tayl0r's lack of info about Noraa meta, Tayl0r's generally lurkiness. Like there are recent things that I see in Tayl0r's iso that look to me to be more like they could be scum than the shitposts early on (including that recent comment about you once I started pushing you) but it feels like you dropped off from pushing those things when Tayl0r wagon lost some steam.

I don't share your view of dismissing those early posts. Yeah I agree it disproportionately focusses on those - ultimately I am so convinced by the meta experience of seeing Taylor as scum in Noir Mafia do exactly the same thing as here, that it's hard to not see her as scum now. In contrast to your approach perhaps, I see the lack of immediate momentum behind that push as a further indicator I might have been right. I think as well as everything else already noted, there was definitely an element of me being frustrated at not getting any traction though. I also think the sentiment expressed that I was not giving objective analysis made me feel like it would be a bit pointless to put lots of effort in, only to be dismissed as being tunnel-visioned. I'm slowly going through her subsequent posts now though.

[Infinity 324]

Hi everyone! I've been following this game and all I know is that murdercat is town.

Going to reread a bit and give my reads soon, since I might have a lot of null reads I'll give possible town and scum narratives for those players so people can tell where my head is at, at least.

This is such a weird entrance. I could read into it but there's too many possibilities. No matter what, I dont like the entrance.

I want to see you read into it. If I had a lot of strong reads going into the game, couldn't scum!me just use those?

[MURDERCAT]

@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.

[Jewel Barons]

This game feels like it is going nowhere fast. We have 3 days left. Need to see more from xof and Dunn.

Scum is probably just coasting because town is being lazy. I posted a case on BM. Can people please either engage with it or make a new case?

Gamma please come help me out here

I see some of what you’re saying on BM but I don’t feel it’s as strong a case as I think you do

-GAMMA

[Battle Mage]

And sure you can say that you dropped off Tayl0r *because* it lost steam but it just looks weird to me that you stop pushing her at all and fall out of the game

i mean we've talked about the reason for my absence from the game, I don't think we need to revisit...

It's not like I went and started pushing other people though is it? You could simplify it as:

BM thinks Taylor scum early
Everyone tells BM to fk off coz his case is shit
BM gets frustrated/sad and stops trying hard
BM takes a break from game
BM returns, and having read some of what transpired, has other scumreads besides Taylor - however still prefers a Taylor elim.

Dunno, I think I'm not really with you on this. If anything, I think I've been unusually consistent, but you seem to be arguing the opposite.

[Battle Mage]

Isis come talk to me about this? Are we seeing the same things?

you make a case on me, and care more about engaging Isis on it than me? interesting...

Why would you expect someone to opt to engage a scumread over a non-scumread?

-GAMMA

Eh to me that's just common sense. If I'm actually playing properly and trying (which admittedly, isn't always), I want to engage with my scumreads the most to either:

A. Confirm to myself and others that they are scum.
B. Give them the opportunity to convince me that I was wrong and they are town.

[Battle Mage]

Let me level with you mate...

Murdercat-town gains plenty from talking to me, is seeing what I say and how I engage, and being able to evaluate my reactions and potentially even re-evaluate his own case. You're right it would be unusual for me to say you have an amazing case on me (although I would, and indeed have, acknowledge points of merit). But I think you've slightly missed the point here - Murdercat-town should care more about getting a correct elim today, and be open to the possibility of being wrong. I'm certain that if you're town, you have reasonable doubt about my alignment. Instead, your description of your objective sounds a lot more like eliminating me at all costs. You say you care about my opinion on Taylor - do you have particular questions on it?

Speaking of going back and forth without it being useful...

I don't know what to say, I could give you multiple examples, but I think addressing a case point-by-point is mostly NAI no matter how you do it, and I would even go so far as to say continuing an engagement like that with a scumread is bad play as town.

You don't think this discussion is helpful? I disagree. And there's lots to be learnt by how people address a case on them. It's forum mafia - what we say and how we say it is all important data right? I guess we disagree philosophically - I'd be interested to see how you form balanced and robust reads if you don't pay attention to people once you have scumread them.

[Battle Mage]

Gamma - who are your top 2 scumreads?

[Noraa]

I want to see you read into it.

no. there's not a point bc there's too many possibilities tho I will have you down as trying to buddy murder for now.

[Battle Mage]

So, as I progress through the Taylor Iso, I do just want to summarise. Early pages - all posts are either: total fluff, scum-claiming, and trying to out town power roles even after being told why that is anti-town.

so the mafia has a strongman, rolecop, and roleblocker. since scum already knows what town has, is it worth it for town to speculate about what roles town has? it cant hurt right?

actually im very nervous but fortunately no one seems to have noticed my scumslip. i feel like i covered it up pretty well.

Where is your scum-slip?

-Lance

11

i can see the setup spec maybe not helping that much. but i really cant see it hurting, and im a bit suspicious of those who are pushing back against it. this is info SCUM ALREADY HAS. lets level the playing field? for VTs it wont help much, but for PRs theyll know what other PRs are in the game, at the very least.

Oh, so this is going to be a very talkative game from the start, alright. Sure.

Let me see if I can follow along. With how this setup works, if you're good at maths and all, you can kinda mechanically guess what sort of PRs town could have based on how many points were spent for the Undead? I will admit I am unfamiliar with the setup or how any of it works, so already starting a step or so behind there. Is there any sort of benefit to theorizing that, or is it more just a good place to start early game conversations? I can't remember the last time I played an Open so forgive me, my logic is rusty on ideal play.

I have no idea why anyone town would want to do this.

What do you mean?

see murdercat post 65. scum already knows what PRs we have, but doesnt know who has them. if we speculate about what they are, it'll be pretty obvious to them who is and isn't one.

no it wont.

Why are you so sure it won't?

i mean it could if the town PRs fuck up and are dumb. but they just have to feign ignorance and not be like "well im the cop so in all the scenarios i consider, therell be a cop"... like if it outs town PRs then itll out scum too, who are also TMI. itll take 2 seconds to go through and look at the possible options for town with 8 points, and then to look at which ones dont make sense given the scum roles.

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: good xofelf posts

Why are you so sure it won't?

just ignore her

Fair sentiment, may just. But I'm genuinely curious why she thinks that. The explanation you and Murdercat gave seemed solid enough to me as to why it was a bad idea.

Xofelf, I kind of agree you on the Plus read. He seems a little more calculated than my past experiences with him, which gives me some suspicion of them but much like you say about yourself, Plus is an easy target at times because of his play.

What do you think about his opening post in 35?

Is that more calculated? That just seems a bit "hold up let me get an RVS in here real quick, and also some thoughts real hurried that aren't gonna mean much, but are definitely here." It does ping weird, but I didn't think anything of it cuz it could mean anything really.

Noraa, why do you think it's them?

I did notice as I was reading that you post an awful lot in a row, especially when you're particularly frustrated or annoyed. But I can't tell if this is just frustrated at not being listened to town, or caught scum. But would I be wrong in the assumption that you're a rather emotional player, in that your posts have a lot of that in them? not necessarily that you use them in your reasons.

Yeah I don't care about your meta, I wanna know what you're thinking and why for *this* game. Why is that your scumteam list? Do *you* have meta reasons for thinking its them? Do you have reasons from this game for that?

Either way, I get the sense that xofelf isn't very confident in this game, but these posts give me the sense that they're trying to do their best to contribute and find scum. Scum!xofelf could be faking these in order to coast and point to these as game-solving efforts, but I get the sense that un-confident scum wouldn't be able to fake these as convincingly. Lean town.

[Infinity 324]

@mod, can you fix those spoilers?

[Noraa]

BM gets frustrated/sad and stops trying hard

I would normally consider this AtE but I've felt this recently so I actually vibe with it more.

[Battle Mage]

I want to see you read into it.

no. there's not a point bc there's too many possibilities tho I will have you down as trying to buddy murder for now.

noraa, you didnt take up my offer of joining the taylor wagon - talk to me about why?

[Battle Mage]

BM gets frustrated/sad and stops trying hard

I would normally consider this AtE but I've felt this recently so I actually vibe with it more.

it's AtE, but I don't think it's scummy really because there's no reason that would make people not vote me lol

[Noraa]

noraa, you didnt take up my offer of joining the taylor wagon - talk to me about why?

I am not v confident there. I agree Taylor been acting fishy. I could see a scum!Taylor here as her normal town meta is nothing like this but I hate being SRed for shitty meta reasons that are really weak and like "this is not her town game" so I'm not gonna be one of those people.

[Battle Mage]

@mod, can you fix those spoilers?

interesting read on xoxelf - why them first?