mystery box of silver 10. (done)

[mastina]

You guys are 3rd party claiming, we can go after you all we want. That’s on you guys to get us to trust you.

Sure.
All three of us were on the Gamma wagon when Gamma was groupscum.
We three together pushed heavily for the lynch of groupscum (including me pushing Gamma on a TMI scumslip of asking to be neighborized).
We've shared fairly openly the information we know--a lot of it here, publicly, and literally anything not public, Almost50 knows, and can share to his group.

I'd say that's a pretty damn good place to start in terms of earning trust.

[mastina]

I really want to see what Mastina thinks. Mastina while great at scum isn’t the best liar.

Okay, this is me not lying:

I have VERY good setup based reasons to believe that April Ludgate's roleclaim is complete and utter bullshit.

Feel like this was important enough to emphasize so that people who skim/skip my catchup posts find it harder to ignore, because yes; this IS important.

April Ludgate is basically guiltied scum, so we have a free D2 scum lynch to pair with our D1 scum lynch.

OK, so Tutus/Nero/mastina are confirmed

3P

AND are confirmed the same faction/alignment to

each other

. I have had a long discussion with Titus and her claims appear to legit in that they are not "scum" and

can win with town

. They have an additional wincon that I think is harder to achieve (I'd go as far as stating it's almost impossible) and in that particular case only they win (i.e. Gamma's Army still loses along with Town if that happens).

Let me reiterate for those of you who like to see me say the same thing repeatedly:

1- Titus/mastina/Nero are NON-TOWN
2- Titus/mastina/Nero are NOT ALIGNED WITH GAMMA
3- Titus/mastina/Nero CAN win with the Town (and are inclined to do so)
4- Titus/mastina/Nero can also win exclusively, but it's NIGH IMPOSSIBLE for them to do so

Since you outed this, I suppose I can clarify.
Part of our 3p information is

we explicitly know that the Army is the one and

only

scum faction in this game, numbering exactly five

.
That means this game is NOT multiball.
It is, explicitly, singleball aside from a 3p twist or two.

Gamma was not 3p--he was scum. His faction, and only his faction, is the scumteam this game. There's five of them, including Gamma, thus, four left. (And yes, we are indeed inclined to vote off scum because we have incentive to do so--and I've been playing as if I were a town mason this whole game because I basically am one, because I don't need to eliminate town to win and do need to eliminate scum, soooo. Basically town, albeit not literally town. We are indeed, as Mathblade would describe, essentially "Town+".)

There is more setup information we have, and we shared it with Almost50, but it's not something that I'll blurt out on a whim. (In general, I'm taking the stance that I won't out any information on my own in the public thread, but if someone else in the trusted circle outs the information, then I will happily expand upon it and confirm it with extra details not included before.)

New page, so quoting these because they're important enough to not be missed.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Gamma
Gamma has been on MS for 4.5 hours now. He made 47 public posts (the last if which was maybe 2 minutes ago) but is yet to even make an ego post in this game.

I do seem to recall the last time Gamma did that, he was scum, so consider me in support of this. (I like my Bell vote more, but in spirit I am with you here and will happily switch.)

@mastina

Pretty sure I don’t have a chronology problem?

I hadn’t even read to the point you’re claiming. The fact this did not come with a Gamma vote is suspicious AF to me. And you’re linking a post in the 2000s

Are you town or 3P? Just help the local idiot (me)

[MathBlade]

OK, so Tutus/Nero/mastina are confirmed

3P

AND are confirmed the same faction/alignment to

each other

. I have had a long discussion with Titus and her claims appear to legit in that they are not "scum" and

can win with town

. They have an additional wincon that I think is harder to achieve (I'd go as far as stating it's almost impossible) and in that particular case only they win (i.e. Gamma's Army still loses along with Town if that happens).

Let me reiterate for those of you who like to see me say the same thing repeatedly:

1- Titus/mastina/Nero are NON-TOWN
2- Titus/mastina/Nero are NOT ALIGNED WITH GAMMA
3- Titus/mastina/Nero CAN win with the Town (and are inclined to do so)
4- Titus/mastina/Nero can also win exclusively, but it's NIGH IMPOSSIBLE for them to do so

Since you outed this, I suppose I can clarify.
Part of our 3p information is

we explicitly know that the Army is the one and

only

scum faction in this game, numbering exactly five

.
That means this game is NOT multiball.
It is, explicitly, singleball aside from a 3p twist or two.

Gamma was not 3p--he was scum. His faction, and only his faction, is the scumteam this game. There's five of them, including Gamma, thus, four left. (And yes, we are indeed inclined to vote off scum because we have incentive to do so--and I've been playing as if I were a town mason this whole game because I basically am one, because I don't need to eliminate town to win and do need to eliminate scum, soooo. Basically town, albeit not literally town. We are indeed, as Mathblade would describe, essentially "Town+".)

There is more setup information we have, and we shared it with Almost50, but it's not something that I'll blurt out on a whim. (In general, I'm taking the stance that I won't out any information on my own in the public thread, but if someone else in the trusted circle outs the information, then I will happily expand upon it and confirm it with extra details not included before.)

I kinda wanna hear the setup information myself actually.

Because Almost50+Super Bowl are claimed 3P aligned with town with you guys.

I am kinda wondering how you’re expecting me to not think you’re 3P not aligned with town here.

Taking everything you said at face value:

You have 6 players who will never vote for each other. One of whom is an ungated neighborizer.
Vs 5 players one of whom is a one shot alien and has had a player mod confirmed to be not Army.

I know I’ve been out of touch on MS recently but what would scum need to balance this?

This feels like you’re 3P trying to sell me something.

I am not sold. Sell me harder.

[MathBlade]

(I say ungated because Titus said no gates there may be one)

[MathBlade]

Titus could have easily claimed “I know there’s 5 scum and it’s Army” when I was spending all sorts of crazy time running scenarios.

If you have had setup information all along there was 5 scum why let me fucking stew?

[mastina]

On another note can we elim DDL

April first would be my preference, but past that? Sure thing!

If you’re 3P aligned with town building the town should be your goal.

Iso me, Mathblade, and there you'll see the townbuilding.

I've been trying to accurately form a solid townbloc the entire game, even noting that while my scumhunting has largely been lackluster, my townhunting was feeling more on-point. And by and large, I stand by that assessment.

While there's outliers like Gamma and April who obvscum themselves beyond all contention, literally none of my other scumreads would surprise me to be wrong--I happen to

believe

that I have a good starting point, but I probably

don't

have the exact solve.

But I do feel like my locktown all have actually good reasons for being locktown.

The players below locktown, I will admit, less reason to be town but I still feel they're town enough.

I realize that was a while ago, so in addition to 3851, lemme post a reminder:
Titus
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Morning Mage
NorwegianboyEE
PlusJOYED
Vecna/Mathblade
jjh927
samantha97/shellyc
EchoVision/Something_Smart-if-April's-scum

TheGoldenParadox (almost a locktown candidate, but not quite)
Pickaxe Pete
EchoVision/Something_Smart-if-April's-not-scum

DiamondSentinel
Christøpher/Misty
Bell

DrDolittle

Tayl0r Swift

April Ludgate

Titus and Nero share my alignment.
Almost50, superbowl9, and their third share an alignment and I believe their claim.
Morning Mage I reevaluated as being town.
Norwegianboy is, via knowing that the Army is the only scum faction, cleared of being scum.
PlusJOYED's role is town.
samantha was town at every stage and shellyc continues this trend.
Vecna was looking town to me and Mathblade looks just as town.
jjh's ascetic claim doesn't fit as a scum role or a scum fakeclaim; it feels real and like a town role.
EchoVision is 100% not an April scumbuddy; iso EchoVision to confirm this--given that April is lockscum, that means Something_Smart is also town.

TheGoldenParadox and Pickaxe Pete, even if they have made conclusions I later disagreed with, I've followed their logic this game and basically at-the-time-they-posted agreed with them, with them being reasonable, rational, making sense, with a thought train process I could clearly follow flawlessly--not enough to locktown them, but where they are close to.

DiamondSentinel is the towniest of the POE names but while I trust Titus that he's town, I could still see him as possible scum.

Misty is the second-towniest of the POE names but while I see some of her content as town, she could very easily be scum.

Bell makes sense as scum from his D2 contributions and even lacking that is the scummiest of the POE names, bar DDL, so is probably scum.

DDL has been a leanscum the entire game and POE suggests he is scum.

Tayl0r Swift is a player whose content by and large looks town, but her interactions very very strongly suggest scum, due to the players she is defending and what she's done.

And April is basically confscum at this point; the only way to more strongly confirm him would be to literally flip him because he's that damn confscum.

[MathBlade]

On another note can we elim DDL

April first would be my preference, but past that? Sure thing!

If you’re 3P aligned with town building the town should be your goal.

Iso me, Mathblade, and there you'll see the townbuilding.

I've been trying to accurately form a solid townbloc the entire game, even noting that while my scumhunting has largely been lackluster, my townhunting was feeling more on-point. And by and large, I stand by that assessment.

While there's outliers like Gamma and April who obvscum themselves beyond all contention, literally none of my other scumreads would surprise me to be wrong--I happen to

believe

that I have a good starting point, but I probably

don't

have the exact solve.

But I do feel like my locktown all have actually good reasons for being locktown.

The players below locktown, I will admit, less reason to be town but I still feel they're town enough.

I realize that was a while ago, so in addition to 3851, lemme post a reminder:
Titus
Nero Cain
Almost50
superbowl9
Morning Mage
NorwegianboyEE
PlusJOYED
Vecna/Mathblade
jjh927
samantha97/shellyc
EchoVision/Something_Smart-if-April's-scum

TheGoldenParadox (almost a locktown candidate, but not quite)
Pickaxe Pete
EchoVision/Something_Smart-if-April's-not-scum

DiamondSentinel
Christøpher/Misty
Bell

DrDolittle

Tayl0r Swift

April Ludgate

Titus and Nero share my alignment.
Almost50, superbowl9, and their third share an alignment and I believe their claim.
Morning Mage I reevaluated as being town.
Norwegianboy is, via knowing that the Army is the only scum faction, cleared of being scum.
PlusJOYED's role is town.
samantha was town at every stage and shellyc continues this trend.
Vecna was looking town to me and Mathblade looks just as town.
jjh's ascetic claim doesn't fit as a scum role or a scum fakeclaim; it feels real and like a town role.
EchoVision is 100% not an April scumbuddy; iso EchoVision to confirm this--given that April is lockscum, that means Something_Smart is also town.

TheGoldenParadox and Pickaxe Pete, even if they have made conclusions I later disagreed with, I've followed their logic this game and basically at-the-time-they-posted agreed with them, with them being reasonable, rational, making sense, with a thought train process I could clearly follow flawlessly--not enough to locktown them, but where they are close to.

DiamondSentinel is the towniest of the POE names but while I trust Titus that he's town, I could still see him as possible scum.

Misty is the second-towniest of the POE names but while I see some of her content as town, she could very easily be scum.

Bell makes sense as scum from his D2 contributions and even lacking that is the scummiest of the POE names, bar DDL, so is probably scum.

DDL has been a leanscum the entire game and POE suggests he is scum.

Tayl0r Swift is a player whose content by and large looks town, but her interactions very very strongly suggest scum, due to the players she is defending and what she's done.

And April is basically confscum at this point; the only way to more strongly confirm him would be to literally flip him because he's that damn confscum.

Explain your April case.

I don’t see April conf scum.

I see April claims MD on Titus.
Titus flips out.
April is almost universally townread.
You chainsaw.

Help me out here? What makes you scumread April?

Between Titus’s play which was AT BEST having me stew if you’re honest for the sake of spamming the thread and at worst outright lies.

Give me a reason to believe you over April who I am townreading.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I find it more believable that there's only 1 scum faction because Gamma tried to fake a fear of second groupscum or 3P to make us more paranoid of slots outside of the actual scum.

[MathBlade]

I find it more believable that there's only 1 scum faction because Gamma tried to fake a fear of second groupscum or 3P to make us more paranoid of slots outside of the actual scum.

I don’t. I don’t see how this balances.

Taking everything on face value you have 6 not masons but masons + Tracker + minimum 11 other town + mod cop mechanic
VS
4 unknown scum + 1 shot alien. I get alien is very good but I don’t approve this ever.

I don’t see what balances this. I am trying to make this work but I feel like I am ramming in pieces. Mastina says she has more setup info. Let her share it. This way can try to make it fit.

[MathBlade]

I feel I am being more than grateful considering Titus’s response to me thinking about things was like “oh I am thinking the 4-5 is more practical” when IF Mastina is truth telling Titus let me sit in my own pool of misery trying to figure this out. So I am a wee (understatement) pissed and I want to know everything Mastina knows. If Mastina’s town aligned it shouldn’t be a problem and should help her April case and help us.

[mastina]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

For the record.
We were informed of this role in the game.
I can't speak for Titus/Nero, but me, personally, I thought it best not to out this role or any part of it, in spite of knowing it existed.
But with the claim out here in full.
Might as well confirm that we know it's a real role and is town-aligned.

This is why PlusJOYED moved from a suspect of mine to locktown; it's because Titus and Nero pointed out PlusJoyed's claim in our PT (which I read before starting my catchup here), and I knew that role was town.
Knowing that role was town and targeted samantha's slot (shellyc) also reaffirmed the locktown read that was already there.
Knowing that role was in the game also is why I think that jjh is town--if jjh were a scum ascetic, then to the disloyal alignment cop inventor, he would literally be a scum Godfather if he didn't claim the ascetic.
Thus, from a setup spec point of view, jjh is pretty much locktown to me; PlusJOYED is conftown; shellyc is likely a legit innocent.

[NorwegianboyEE]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

For the record.
We were informed of this role in the game.

What? Why would that be information you're given? Now i'm starting to wonder if i agree with Math that it's almost too good to be true.

[MathBlade]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

For the record.
We were informed of this role in the game.
I can't speak for Titus/Nero, but me, personally, I thought it best not to out this role or any part of it, in spite of knowing it existed.
But with the claim out here in full.
Might as well confirm that we know it's a real role and is town-aligned.

This is why PlusJOYED moved from a suspect of mine to locktown; it's because Titus and Nero pointed out PlusJoyed's claim in our PT (which I read before starting my catchup here), and I knew that role was town.
Knowing that role was town and targeted samantha's slot (shellyc) also reaffirmed the locktown read that was already there.
Knowing that role was in the game also is why I think that jjh is town--if jjh were a scum ascetic, then to the disloyal alignment cop inventor, he would literally be a scum Godfather if he didn't claim the ascetic.
Thus, from a setup spec point of view, jjh is pretty much locktown to me; PlusJOYED is conftown; shellyc is likely a legit innocent.

Please continue onward. Claim more setup information that Titus omitted and not answer my fucking question. Please ignore the steam out of my fuckin ears like I am a cartoon character. That will make me 100% trust you.

Sarcasm detector running high.

[MathBlade]

Just fucking claim all the setup information you have right fucking now.

There’s no reason to keep shit hidden.

[mastina]

april claimed investigative in twilight huh

Yep. So if you’re a cop, investigate me please.

By the way guys.

Now that PlusJOYED's role is public.

Guess what

this

looks like from April?

That's right.

A TMI scumslip of knowing there's a cop in the game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Recruiting neighborhood where all roles are confirmed to each other with a shit ton of setup information given for free?

[superbowl9]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

WE DID ARE YOU READING THE GAME

[MathBlade]

Recruiting neighborhood where all roles are confirmed to each other with a shit ton of setup information given for free?

april claimed investigative in twilight huh

Yep. So if you’re a cop, investigate me please.

By the way guys.

Now that PlusJOYED's role is public.

Guess what

this

looks like from April?

That's right.

A TMI scumslip of knowing there's a cop in the game.

Not really seeing scum here for that Mastina.

Even if I assume it’s a scumslip (which I don’t because townies do that too) April would have to be a godfather or she’d be inviting in pain. Pain that doesn’t make sense assuming April is army and her buddy just got lynched.

Sell me Mastina. Don’t give me a two cent post. Do better.

[superbowl9]

the majority of players will be town

. everyone is multitasking. private topics will generally always be open. there is no redirection. if you can think of something similar to redirection, it's probably not in this. this is also generally unlike a role madness game - plenty of people will be vanilla or almost vanilla.

roles will flip with their name and alignment, with clarifications added for certain unfamiliar things.

makes me think some (?) masons arent masons and there is no traditional scum

Oh. My. God. Can we just sticky an explanation post of what is going on in the game?

[mastina]

What is your full wincon?

Respectfully, this is something that is only pro-scum to share.

If Almost50's group feels differently, if any of them feel it is pro-town to have it known publicly, then they have the ability to out it as we did disclose our full wincon to Almost50, but in my opinion it doesn't help the town to know publicly and does help the scum.

[MathBlade]

the majority of players will be town

. everyone is multitasking. private topics will generally always be open. there is no redirection. if you can think of something similar to redirection, it's probably not in this. this is also generally unlike a role madness game - plenty of people will be vanilla or almost vanilla.

roles will flip with their name and alignment, with clarifications added for certain unfamiliar things.

makes me think some (?) masons arent masons and there is no traditional scum

Oh. My. God. Can we just sticky an explanation post of what is going on in the game?

That’d be great.

Mastina claims god tier informed powers and 3P with Titus and Nero
You claim 3P with Almost 50+1
Majority town in the game means minimum 12 town
So remainder would have to be 5 scum if truthtelling.

However the more Mastina claims the harder I find it to buy.

It’s like Titus and Mastina are trying to jam a square peg in a round hole

[superbowl9]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

This role and 6 masons, wtf, no.

Also, if Shelly is scum here who received the cop invention, they would know not to say it.

You and I should target the same player.

WE ARE 3RD PARTIES AND TITUS’ GROUP HAS A (VERY HARD) NON-TOWN WINCON ALONGSIDE THEIR WINCON. THIS IS NOT AT ALL IMPROBABLE SETUP WISE. DO NOT LOOK AT THIS AS 6 MASONS.

[MathBlade]

What is your full wincon?

Respectfully, this is something that is only pro-scum to share.

If Almost50's group feels differently, if any of them feel it is pro-town to have it known publicly, then they have the ability to out it as we did disclose our full wincon to Almost50, but in my opinion it doesn't help the town to know publicly and does help the scum.

Almost50 did a minor hint of it if we take him at his word.

Sounds kinda like town or scorched earth which sounds like a massive 3 way battle of 3Ps not group scum.

Which is why I want all you have open and exposed so that way you can’t add to it later. Because I am having a very hard time trusting you.

[MathBlade]

my full role is odd night disloyal alignment cop inventor.
on odd nights i can target someone. if they aren't town they become a cop
this makes a lot of sense with the "town but not town" mason. I wish they would have revealed this day 1 but whatevs.

This role and 6 masons, wtf, no.

Also, if Shelly is scum here who received the cop invention, they would know not to say it.

You and I should target the same player.

WE ARE 3RD PARTIES AND TITUS’ GROUP HAS A (VERY HARD) NON-TOWN WINCON ALONGSIDE THEIR WINCON. THIS IS NOT AT ALL IMPROBABLE SETUP WISE. DO NOT LOOK AT THIS AS 6 MASONS.

Again 6 masons different faction claim. But if you will never vote for her group and she will never vote yours that would be de facto masons for balancing the setup. I just want to stage a raid on all the private fucking PTs this game and raid them and make them all go public in this cluster fuck