Mini Normal 2175 | The End |

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: daddisi

A kind reminder that you must put

proper

votes. I don't know what is a daddisi. VOTE: Datisi

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: daddisi

A kind reminder that you must put

proper

votes. I don't know what is a daddisi. VOTE: Datisi

Sorry, Serious, let me define said term for you.

A

daddisi

is a moderator on mafiascum who tries to steal pagetops but frequently fails. Maybe he forgot that he is a mod and accidentally joined as a player this game. Very scummy, Daddisi!

[innocentvillager]

Ydrasse - I can read her pretty well from my experiences, has a real spark/solvy tone as town
shellyc - I'm obvtown
Iconeum - pretty good player? better solve this slot quick
Datisi - When scum has obviously less enthusiasm as town
GeorgeBailey - George 'The' Bailey himself.
Staarling - I can prob read newbs pretty well
MiniMegabyte - obvscum when scum
Gypyx - idk don't have much real experience
innocentvillager - can read this slot, less lamisty as town and has stream of consciousness

Shelly, what’s the point of disclosing how you read various slots in public at start of game? Doesn’t that defeat the whole purpose

[innocentvillager]

pagetop

get fucked iv

VOTE: innocentvillager

Another pagetop for daddisi

But with a nice side of omgus

Slight fos for first post being on a pagetop.

[innocentvillager]

Hot take can this game not be 100+ page D1

I specifically signed up for the 9p normal because of this

(And the plist and the mod and the mod impersonating as a player)

[innocentvillager]

Damn, 2 lists in 2 pages from shelly, i can townlean that

Have you played with Shelly before?

[innocentvillager]

Damn, 2 lists in 2 pages from shelly, i can townlean that

Have you played with Shelly before?

Yup

can you tell me why you townlean Shelly’s readslists this early on

Also is it worth skimming 2169 ISOs or should I not bother, seems like a few of you were in that game

[innocentvillager]

Iconeum - scumlean the offhanded town comments seem pretty lamisty

I wouldn’t have scumleaned this reaction but Saudade is rubbing off on me

[innocentvillager]

Saudade?

meh I might talk about it later

Can you answer my question about town leaning Shelly for the readlists?

[innocentvillager]

okok I’ll iso you guys at some point there when I’m super bored. Still don’t believe Daddisi plays mafia

[innocentvillager]

can you tell me why you townlean Shelly’s readslists this early on

That kind of effort of structuring thier reads feel town to me, you see what i mean?

Is it the fact that it looks like she is putting effort in towny or is it specifically like, the format of that post

Like what distinguishes the effort in formatting from general effort or is there no distinction at all and it’s all towny?

[innocentvillager]

No, it means that innocent village will look very towny if town, currently he's neutral i'd say

Also, I want to know if this is based on any meta of me or just purely my name, lol

[innocentvillager]

Is it the fact that it looks like she is putting effort in towny or is it specifically like, the format of that post

Like what distinguishes the effort in formatting from general effort or is there no distinction at all and it’s all towny?

why do you constantly answer the jokey parts first and not this

I think I want to return to this at some point despite it being a bit of a stretch here, just noting for now

[innocentvillager]

More than the readslist thing itself, I don’t like gypyx’s reaction to getting fos’d. At no point since we started jumping on him for the readslist townlean did do anything but stubbornly defend his read and make sarcastic comments about how he’s caught scum for that. It feels a bit like defensive scum getting accused for the wrong reasons.

VOTE: Gypyx

[innocentvillager]

I think I want to return to this at some point despite it being a bit of a stretch here, just noting for now

do you think it's AI aorn?

I think answering the jokey parts before the AI parts is something I subconsciously do as scum, tbh.
Answering AI parts first is a good way to get more attention.

I think there is potentially like, a deflectiony mindset there yeah, not sure how to put it into words

[innocentvillager]

interestingly enough i'm still leaning +town on gypyx because of tone, posts like 60

I liked this too I guess but I still feel pretty meh about his later posting

Do you still think gypyx is town?

[innocentvillager]

Gypyx, i see your concerns. My thing is that I think the stubbornness for defending the read vehemently when everyone else seems to disagree with it being an AI thing leans towards a scum mindset. Partly because I think town is more likely to admit there could be some merit to what others are saying.

It also feels like you don’t really care about anything right now about reading the people pushing you, only defending against the push with sarcasm in an attempt to laugh it off.

Can this come from town!you? I think so? But I still see 139 as still fitting in with the scum!you narrative. I think scum!you gets frustrated in this spot too that you’re getting so much flak for this as well

[innocentvillager]

I guess I’m just kind of confused now. It feels like you’re overreacting to what you just admitted was a “bad read”. Like you’re getting upset and combative about the case on you but now you’re finally admitting the read is bad/illogical

[innocentvillager]

i feel like i could write out why i heavily dislike shelly's acting towards gypyx because it feels like pushing on surface-level scummy rhetoric stuff that comes from town more often than not, like the effort vs structure thing or "why did you post it if you thought it was bad" thing

but i don't know if my heart believes in those arguments

sad

Is there a reason you have a problem with Shelly pushing these arguments rather than me or Ico?

[innocentvillager]

Also, what do you think of Gypyx posting from 139 onward

[innocentvillager]

but i think that it'll become more overt as we go on if his frustrated reaction was actually scum caught out and struggling to like, counter reasons that aren't ~good~ ones (caught for wrong reasons, blah blah)

I don't like mind Gypyx giving breathing room but uh... what exactly makes you think this reaction on page 6 (which will eventually become some random thing people forgot) will become more AI over time if he's scum?

I think interesting things can happen when we keep the heat on someone who has accumulated heat due to the specifics of the gamestate. Simply giving him breathing room because the very initial reasoning was meh seems like a wasted opportunity. But at the same time, I know it's not fun as either alignment to be under fire like this (and people forget this is a game) so if there's nothing really scummy yet I'm fine with backing down for now

it also seems like a dumb take to think someone decided on page 2 they were going to townread a specific player like that. it seemed very chalant in the way it was posted which... meh. if gypyx really had an agenda i think they'd try a bit harder with it.

there's not always an agenda behind every scumpost other than free content/looking town/doing town things. It could kind of just be a TMI slip. When I'm scum everyone just kind of... looks town because I know they're town. So I start fitting reasons to the read instead of the other way around. Gypyx kind of just doubled down on the whole post structure thing when I pressed him which felt like it *could* be explained by that

[innocentvillager]

Just when I was enjoying the pace of this game... y’all do that while I sleep -_-

[innocentvillager]

I read everything in a weird order

think Ydrasse and George Bailey are probably town

[innocentvillager]

it seems a lot less likely that scum!georgebailey forgets about this game/doesn’t post for Like 2 RL days than town!georgebailey

He confirmed, if was scum probably checked in with scum PT, but just didn’t post? I don’t think these wifom tricks get much towncred anyway so on balance that makes me think he’s more likely to be town

You can call this weak if you want but i feel like it’s not that weak I don’t think an experienced scum does this often

[innocentvillager]

Ydrasse, you've been susing shelly pretty strong, why's your vote not on her?

samw goes for you, she was your strongest expressed suspicion if i recall correctly and you're still voteparking ico

why is it difficult to get any wagon going, especially on shelly

I was waiting to see everyone enter the game, and i still liked my vote on ico

I think there's one scum in villager / george

VOTE: georgebailey casing my vote here, i'll make a deeper read of this game when i'll feel like it
(That's exe-2 i think)

why 1 scum in gb/villager?

what did you like to keep your vote on me?

Well, iv was supposed to towntell hard according to you, i'm not seeing that, and he voted gb based on his entrance

Just didn't have any post that strongly pushed me towards TR'ing you / SR'ing someone else

I don’t understand this at all sorry

I never voted GB?

And can you or @Ico explain this whole I’m supposed to look super towny thing you two keep mentioning or whatever? Im just lost

[innocentvillager]

also, I haven’t really tried to read Shelly yet, but I think it’s important to keep in mind that Shelly gets fos’d more as town than as scum empirically, probably because as scum shes good enough to try and “play the field”

Mostly at ydrasse and daddisi here

that alone makes me lean town but obviously I have to read the slot

Just a thought worth considering if you two haven’t yet?

[innocentvillager]

And can you or @Ico explain this whole I’m supposed to look super towny thing you two keep mentioning or whatever? Im just lost

i have no idea, i don't think i said that about you

@gypyx given that ico said this and I’ve never played with ico I think you’re making the ico meta thing up too

[innocentvillager]

you know what, if this is true or not, but the entire concept of you thinking this makes me townread you here

ico, pls enlighten me why you think this is town!indicative thinking?

the solving GB part in it

ok but like why?

like it's a read that's very easy to invent and that's easy to walk back from later (also it's lowkey worrying those are the only reads he had coming back but)

don't see a problem

"sorting" in of itself gets less and less as a towntell the more experience someone has

and coming in with an "early read" on page 20, that is quite easy to toss away later, *while* not commenting on the 7-8 other slots (and openly saying they're not even trying to read some of them) would sooner make me think that the read is ~for show~ rather than genuine sorting

do you see why i don't think it's a townbinnable thing?

you should definitely indirectly shade me more without engaging me/talking to someone else!

[innocentvillager]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

to me it looked less like "genuine"-solvey and more like "oh god oh fuck i need to produce content lemme make up some bs that can't be debunked"-solvey but that's the game ain't it

i forgot this one

[innocentvillager]

Starling is probably town

[innocentvillager]

NO fuck you ico fuck you that was mine seriously fuck you

[innocentvillager]

yeah but like, those aren’t even the things that you shaded me for

[innocentvillager]

why do you care so much about random answers to questions from like, many pages ago

I like don’t understand

[innocentvillager]

like do you even care about the answers?

[innocentvillager]

I like, also don’t have to share every read that I have and I feel like you’re making it seem like I’m scummy because of that alone

[innocentvillager]

what’s your read on me right now?

[innocentvillager]

you kind of just came the conclusion that my georgebailey read was BS? or am I misinterpreting

[innocentvillager]

so you didn’t think to engage me on the thing you ACTUALLY thought was scummy though

[innocentvillager]

like null trending downwards

[innocentvillager]

instead let’s talk about other useless questions You pretend to care about!

[innocentvillager]

i'm pretty sure i already said that your lack of any reads based on content actually posted in the game was way worse

I don’t recall tbh

[innocentvillager]

okay I guess scumread anyone who isn’t posting their full readlists on page 2 and townread anyone who is!

oh wait...

[innocentvillager]

also

[innocentvillager]

im a good daddy

[innocentvillager]

idk, maybe check the person who you’re voting?

Yeah I totally believe that you believe people not giving out all their reads is a scumtell

[innocentvillager]

so to be clear.

Someone who talks about all their reads - NAI
Someone who doesn’t talk much about their reads - scummy

yes?

[innocentvillager]

oh wait, do you still want me to answer the question about why I lol scumleaned ico on page 3 when he posted a meme? I’m sure that will really help you figure out my alignment

[innocentvillager]

oh and, to be clear, as much as I’d like this to be a scum thing because I really don’t believe you care about those questions answered, it’s still possivle you’re just town and don’t like it when people don’t answer your questions

[innocentvillager]

so why didn’t you ask that question instead (:

[innocentvillager]

ok vote me then Ydrasse

[innocentvillager]

can you at least admit it kind of looks like you are not genuinely trying to figure out my alignment?

pedit: fine

[innocentvillager]

um

sorry for being being sarcastic and petty yesterday

i was feeling kind of attacked and was probably just in a pissy RL mood too

that said I still maintain reservations about Datisi motives for the questions. I disagree with ico that he’s “obviously trying to sort me” because I still don’t think it feels like it. It might look like it on the surface but any competent scum could make it seem like they’re solving. Datisi is obviously a competent scum from 2169

VOTE: Datisi

[innocentvillager]

it doesn't feel like i'm sorting you. no shit. i *am not able to sort you* when you're not outing reads. do you think my sorting of the other players only looks like sorting on the surface? if so, which parts make you think that and why?

i don't really want to get into another shitfight with you, hopefully we can talk about each other without being too heated this time, i'll apologize for my end from last time. we can also debrief our little spat postgame if you'd like, i don't usually get into petty shitfights like... as either alignment so this is kind of a first for me

anyways here's where I'm at, daddisi. for one, i kind of doubt that "you are not able to sort me" just because I am not giving every single read and explaining them all. I have enough content for you to have at least some opinion on me; it seems like many of the other players have one of me. if I feel it's relevant and helpful I'll probably say something or respond.

but more importantly just to clarify when I say "it doesn't feel like you're sorting me" I'm more referring to "trying to sort me" not "able to successfully sort me". Sorry if I'm starting to sound like a broken record but as I've said before I didn't like the way you kept pushing pretty old questions that I didn't think were relevant to the gamestate any longer, then shading me indirectly about something completely different while talking to ico was pretty concerning.

actually, let's just take care of this: do you still want me to answer those two questions? the one about the ico meme and the one about gypyx from back then? if you say yes, I also want you to tell me exactly what you were looking for, how that would help sort me, and your opinion on how my response (when I give it) really informs your read on me. like I want to know why it was so important those questions were answered, especially because it doesn't seem like you're admitting that you don't care about the questions anymore when I brought up even town!you could just be being stubborn. there were questions like, "how do you feel about X, I'm concerned you didn't get a read here, can you give your thoughts" etc. that would've made more sense to push if you were really concerned that my "only takeaways" from my random-order skim through (also, how can you even reasonably strongly scumread my weird order skimthrough producing two townreads. and yes I said reasonably strongly scumread because this is what YOU indicated in that post where you bolded stuff from two quote idr exact post #).

i haven't really been paying attention to your "attempts to sort others" tbh. My vote on you is the vote on you because of our interactions which I obviously feel best about and have noticed the most. Does that tunnel me a little bit? maybe, especially since somehow no one feels the same way I do about you about not trying to sort me? But then again no one sees our interactions quite as vividly as I do just as I don't see your interactions with others as vividly either. so I'm somewhat conflicted but i feel ~ok just sitting here with my vote on you for now

[innocentvillager]

ydrasse, starling are probably town.

ico is probably town but if datisi is scum ico scum equity goes up. there is a real possibility they are blatantly trying to establish each other as deepwolves but I somewhat townread ico even indepedently of that

georgebailey is likely town.

gypyx, mini are like... eh I should probably try to read them a bit at some point. honestly my time is probably better spent here than responding to datisi but I guess I'm petty so

shelly i don't care about

datisi

[innocentvillager]

i don’t really want to get into a wall war, this isn’t what I signed up for so I’m not gonna respond to everything anymore

Daddisi, I see you’ve transitioned into voting me. I feel like I was just in “oh god I don’t know” territory or whatever. Like how did my last wall somehow go from just unclear antagonism to scum antagonism. Did you suddenly get the deja vu flashback to that one game you’re referencing?

Also just to clarify I never said you didn’t have opinions on me, you were the one who said you “were not able to sort me” so maybe I misinterpreted.

[innocentvillager]

so much so that, it seems like you’ve hopped off shelly, who was previously your top scumread.

[innocentvillager]

i haven't really been paying attention to your "attempts to sort others" tbh. My vote on you is the vote on you because of our interactions which I obviously feel best about and have noticed the most. Does that tunnel me a little bit? maybe, especially since somehow no one feels the same way I do about you about not trying to sort me? But then again no one sees our interactions quite as vividly as I do just as I don't see your interactions with others as vividly either. so I'm somewhat conflicted but i feel ~ok just sitting here with my vote on you for now

well you obviously haven't been paying attention to my attempts to sort you either, but ok

VOTE: iv

I’m sorry if I can’t like read your mind or know exactly your playstyle or how you scumhunt. Those things stuck out to me and actually your explanations seem somewhat reasonable but I still get a weird feeling. Idk

[innocentvillager]

ahahahaha holy shit where do i start

there is at least one scum shitpushing me right now, mark my fucking words, maybe even both of them

also, why is it scum shitpushing you here? just wondering how you necessarily get to this conclusion. are the independent pushes from us independently likely to be scum in your eyes or is there something about the gamestate that combines these somehow

[innocentvillager]

this was a while ago but ill do my best to recreate what i was thinking. i still want you to talk about my response and how it helps you read me, not just then, but even now because you still want the answer

Iconeum - scumlean the offhanded town comments seem pretty lamisty

I wouldn’t have scumleaned this reaction but Saudade is rubbing off on me

why does that reaction make you scumlean ico?

ico posted this meme in response to shelly calling him lamisty. From what I understand one of saudade's big tells early game at least from the two games i played with town!him is that when people are deflectiony to these early accusations in an attempt to seem like they don't care. I felt that this reaction somewhat fell into that category. You modded 2163 and saw how he used it to catch Kerset early. He caught me early as scum in 2160 with this tell as well, so I've seen a 2/2 success rate for finding scum with this tell which is incredibly high even with small sample size given the base rate should be 25%.

But at the same time, I know it's not fun as either alignment to be under fire like this (and people forget this is a game) so if there's nothing really scummy yet I'm fine with backing down for now

i'm confused by this. didn't you say you found gypyx's reaction there scummy? why are you now fine backing down "if there's nothing really scummy there"?

i think we agreed that gypyx's 60 tonally seemed somewhat towny and after questioning him I got a better sense of his thought process on those reads. i remember having him as like "null but watch this slot" which, ironically I didn't really end up doing much of between skimming catchups and shitfighting with you. i also felt that there wasn't much more to be gained from that specific interaction, it had run its course by then, so i didn't see a strong reason to keep pushing it

[innocentvillager]

sure, maybe those questions make more sense "to you", but it's not just about the reads you formed or didn't form in that moment, it's about looking at your reads across the game. (and i kinda wrote about it in the above posts, but it's because you were gone for a while so i'd expect you to have Actual Thoughts on things that are happening, and having just one random townread on a person who isn't posting is lowkey lazy, not wanting to go against anyone, *and* easy to walk back from, which is behaviour often seen in scum!)

of the "reasons" you said you gave in respond to my wall I really only saw this? which you've already said you had reservations about long before my wallpost, which was still when you were "null" on me

like your read progression on me still feels weird

and i had two townreads not one from my brief skim, the other was ydrasse but honestly still weird that you're pushing a one sentence catchup post where i say two townreads

i thought the georgebailey one was more important to mention also because I imagined that no one would've gotten the read I had from that. there is information to be gained outside of just the posts themselves that people tend to write off as NAI when I personally at least believe they are more indicative than they seem. one recent example, look at Open 788 and ctrl-f "spicer" in my ISO. i correctly pegged them as town despite their whole iso being a one-liner and everyone was like "wtf are you talking about iv". I'm not saying that I'm right, it's just something that I notice.

and also, I have a hard time believing you think I, of all people in this game, am scum for "not wanting to go against anyone". Am i being lazy this game? yeah, i am, is that scum indicative for me, maybe. and I really should stop responding to your walls and iso some other players but like... idk we keep getting into discussions and i currently feel the least good about you anyway.

[innocentvillager]

another pagetop for daddy

[innocentvillager]

innocent villager seemed excited to play with Datisi at the start of this so i don't get why he looks unhappy to play with him now

I'm not unhappy to play with him, i think it's just kind of how the gamestate evolved. mafia is a game of argument and sometimes it gets heated. the day the argument started i also happened to go through some RL stuff.

daddisi still <3 you as mod or player.

[innocentvillager]

I’m here but not really here

[innocentvillager]

shellyc why are you voting me?

[innocentvillager]

shellyc why are you voting me?

why are you town, iv?

uh as a self towncase i kinda doubt scum!me plays like this low effort especially if I’m getting strong foses, id feel too bad that I’m not pulling my weight for my scum teammates

it’s kind of just been hard to get into the game tbh and I’m some number of posts behind that I don’t even know and I’m sorry about that

but maybe let’s start with your read on me, im curious why you’re fosing me and if you’ve already said it you can just quote that

[innocentvillager]

bah post go scum

[innocentvillager]

god daddisi you are so good please don't roll scum against me ever

i forgot you were scum every now and then

nice carry to the end <3

[innocentvillager]

no redactions

[innocentvillager]

it has now been 9 pages since iv died

miss you

i hope afterlife is treating you well

missed you too daddisi

it was, and it's not fair that i got to eat popcorn and watch you solo crush the town even while i knew you were probably screaming constantly in the scum pt (which i was right about, lol)

thank you to Sirius and Pooky! Fun game, well modded

still wish I got some of that ramen