What makes a closed setup fun? (design, not generally)

[shiki]

when the setup gives enough information for the players to combine everything into a reasonable narrative but also leaves room for the players to incorrectly invent the missing pieces

[shiki]

Also, I feel like closed games are more creative setup wise, mods want to do something new, they want to surprise and catch of guard their players with unusual mechanics and role choices

this is good when the players are caught off guard and think 'ah that makes sense! didn't think of that!' but not good when players had no way of possibly anticipating or any reason to consider it a possibility - and i guess it doesn't have to be apparent up front but after the fact it should be at least

red herrings are mentioned in the balance thread as solely an unwanted thing but i think red herrings can be very good! or very not good! depending on how they are used - if a player is led to a false conclusion about the setup based on their role, then there should be a different conclusion that they could have reached about the setup which isn't as apparent, not simply as a gotcha! mechanic