Mini Normal 2166 | Dog Show Champions | Game Over

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: UnaBomba

We meet again...

And that warrants a vote, eh? I guess it's more civilized to actually greet someone, rather than just VOTE: egix96.
So hello to you!

[UnaBombaH]

sup bitches
una i think we played a game like two years ago
since you're so fucking special and you're in my signature happy birthday
VOTE: unabombah

Heh, you were in my first ever game on site.
Nice to see you after all this time!
I've certainly learned a lot after that..

[UnaBombaH]

Ok, NOW I feel like tris should be voted. ^^

VOTE: tris

[UnaBombaH]

Ok, NOW I feel like tris should be voted. ^^

VOTE: tris

Why though? I'm actually getting town feels from 89 .

Well I feel like 91 has the scum feels.

[UnaBombaH]

I'd rather be joking than choking.

[UnaBombaH]

If you are the one who does the choking, isn't it as likely to be a bad thing for you, as it is for someone else?

[UnaBombaH]

Rather subjective, firstly I don't like half the wagon on her (mainly Una, who is my second scumlean).

I'm a scumlean for voting tris, or..?

I chose to not explain my vote in full just to see what people would make it out to be.
But I do believe my vote was well placed, and townies should be able to see my PoV.
Obviously it's still early in D1, but so far I feel like there has been no reason to move anywhere either.

[UnaBombaH]

huh? so, you found a game where iconeum was inactive as town, and one where he was inactive as scum, and your conclusion is that he's scum for being inactive?

Yea, I'm not sure I like this vote either.

[UnaBombaH]

I always think of Australia when I see Iconeum.

[UnaBombaH]

why vote for me if you're just going to ignore me?

I'm not ignoring you?
At least I didn't intend to, sorry if it felt like that.

I just chose not to explain my vote on you in a very micro/macro level because I feel like it should've been clear what my reasoning was.

[UnaBombaH]

I somehow have an idea in my mind that Alch should be a big brain player? Right?
But is it the same as either alignment?

[UnaBombaH]

i don't wann vote tris anymore and

this is where i'd jump on the alchemist train but that would put him on E-1 and that is Bad

Why is it bad?
You think it's likely for scum to lolhammer at this point of D1?
And even if they did, you think they'd get away with it?

This falls under a similar category with why I voted for tris earlier.
Over-explaining your reasonings and actions this early in the game pings me hard as scummy.

[UnaBombaH]

So I actually like Datisi for his awareness of that.

Are we really keeping it this simple?

[UnaBombaH]

you but EV is apparently a 2016 join date too. Yeah you're both pretty scummy.

Or at least acting weird, yea.
But so far surface-level, kneejerk reaction, first impression gutreads seem to be the thing anyway, so..

[UnaBombaH]

the real danger is if town lolhammers

This is also the more reasonable answer.

[UnaBombaH]

I got swamped with family-things during the weekend.
I'll do a proper catchup when I have some time to breath.
I'll apologize beforehand - that usually means walls with me.. (unless there's nothing that feels worthwhile chewing)

[UnaBombaH]

I'm procrastinating on starting my catchup........................................................

[UnaBombaH]

Well, I guess that's true.
But I do believe I have something to offer once I get going.

So if I can just straighten up and start grinding those walls...

[UnaBombaH]

And no, I don't believe in the version where I just "start playing".
I wouldn't feel comfortable unless I did the work first.

[UnaBombaH]

is there a reason you've posted the same vote 4 times???? It's not like the mod is missing it

I'm starting my catchup from here, and I'm starting with the question - really?
You legitimately ask this from him, instead of just moving on with the assumption that he's kidding/trolling/whatever?
Ech.

Well I feel like 91 has the scum feels.

Mh, I might have an idea why you might think so I guess, but why do you think so? Do you think she overplayed her careless attitude with that?

I don't like this post.
I get a feeling of "we are on the same page here" - "what page are we on?".
One or the other my friend, not both.

I skimmed and it might just be that it's short and easy to understand but I agree with this - it's the most opportunistic seeming vote on tris. I read the repeat voting as a bit plus town though, felt too exuberant for scum.

I wouldn't ever read any AI-factors into someone joking like that.
It has no hidden agenda behind it since it's so blatant and obnoxiously "loud", but it doesn't help town at all either.
Literally null - literally noise. Can be fun at times though.

What does it mean to you that he is always voting tris again?

Why are people so adamant in finding reason there?
I'm almost 90% certain that nothing good can come out of demanding an answer for it.
If it's some elaborate plan to crumb anything PR-related, we do not want to know or talk about it.
If it's just for fun, we do not NEED to know or talk about it.
I'd just leave it be, and if that continues to be the only thing they commit to, then we just turbolynch them as a policy.

Huh, ok. Last time you were troubling with placing me on either side and were more leaning town on me for effort while I got scumread later by others for waffling, being hedgy etc.

Good to realize that Testarossa is very self-aware of their meta, and even more specifically of the previous game being talked about here.

How old was this game? If it's very fresh, it doesn't mean as much.

Good to see you are also thinking of tris as town (as I do). Can I interest you in voting Alch or where do you have your head at rn?

I guess I'm too late here to ask what made you townread tris at this point?
As of this post, I think my vote is still on her, and while I'm not up to speed with the current gamestate, by post 128 I haven't seen an actual reason to townread the slot either.

If you are the one who does the choking, isn't it as likely to be a bad thing for you, as it is for someone else?

???

I don't know what you're talking about.

I just came to a realization that if you are choking or drowning, it's either you doing it to someone else, or it's actually

happening to you

.
So if "I'm the one choking", it could mean that there's half a sausage in my throat, or that my hands are around someone elses! *queue the clown horn*

[UnaBombaH]

unabombah, i want to hear more from you about your scumread of me, and get a response to 97+98. or just something other than whatever random things you're saying

I think I already answered to this? I intentionally started my catchup from an earlier point to actually get a good sense of what has happened so far, instead of just skimming everything that has happened in the last 10 pages or so.

My early gut thinks that scum are likely to be in

Gamma Emerald
EchoVision
UnaBombaH
Iconeum

That's quite early Nero.
Is it solely based on who's active or not?

iunno, it's just the "early reads seem tmi" is kinda like a pretty easy stance to take, especially since you didn't bother to ask me anything about it. if i told you that giving early reads is actually +town for me, does that change you opinion in any way?

I think I'm townleaning this kind of content from Datisi right now?
They also seem to question the same kind of things that I question and notice.
So even if this is scum, they at least have a similar thought process to mine, it would seem.
Gotta love it.

Talk to me about tris town

Rather subjective, firstly I don't like half the wagon on her (mainly Una, who is my second scumlean).

Also I don't think her play comes across like coming from a scum agenda. It feels like she genuinely doesn't care how she gets perceived by others and with her recent posts it looks more to me that there is an actual interest in figuring other players' stances out.

While it is to take with a grain of salt I also skimmed a few games after I looked into the game Mizzy linked and I thought it was noticeable that she was as scum more serious out of the gate while she is more loose as town. It's easy to manipulate, but with my overall impression I will just roll with the simple answer here.

This might be the worst post in the game so far.
And no, not exclusively because they mention me as a second scumlean. Although that pings me as well - I simply haven't posted a lot so far, so if I'm a second scumlean it can't be too strong of a read yet.
And yet it has something to do with "tris seems towny" + "people voting for her are scummy".
Gives me strong vibes of scum!Testa pocketing town!tris or something to that effect.

I think he's thinking harder about it, which points to being town
like scum probably posts something similar but without the thought of it showing

Simple but reasonable.
Seems very fitting to be posted this early in the game, and doesn't try to be "anything more than it is".
I like it.

huh? so, you found a game where iconeum was inactive as town, and one where he was inactive as scum, and your conclusion is that he's scum for being inactive?

Yea, that doesn't seem very smarts.
I'm still wondering though - I think Alch is like very smart?
Would he just fumble like this either alignment?
And furthermore - would he really feel like he needed to push for something this "easy" and cheeky this early?

Unless they replace out Iconeum will react to it when they do start posting.

If Iconeum does replace out, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

This makes more sense.

[UnaBombaH]

if i start out by playing like a dip shit then i don't have to explain myself to people which is significantly less work for me and it's so fantastic
i can just read the thread and have some fun by extending my self-rvs until i find something to bite on

I personally dislike the way this works, but I can understand the reasoning.
Just...try to actually make a difference wherever you can, or be burned by this tactic.
You might get too disconnected and pacified - guess that's the trade off?
----------------------------------------------------
I SEE THAT MY REACTION TO TESTAROSSA TODAY WAS THE SAME EARLIER AS WELL. 185
----------------------------------------------------

gamma/tris/testa are early townreads

alchemist and vision… not so much

Ummmm....yuck?
At least one very poor townread, and I guess 50% of the scumreads as well?
I sure hope you picked up the slack after this.

why are gamma and testa town?

Datisi is gonna be my beacon of light for now.
Has tha BRAINPOWAH.

i don't wann vote tris anymore and this is where i'd jump on the alchemist train but that would put him on E-1 and that is Bad

Oh..but it was them who also made this post.
I still think being "wary of town-lolhammers" is sort of silly.
If someone does that, we policy-lynch them the next day, and thank kindly for ruining the game for us.
I'd also make it a point to not play with people like that if they constantly keep doing that.
A singular lolhammer here or there isn't the end of the world though.
D1s often are what they are, and most of the actual earlygame-solving seems to happen D2-D3 anyway.

Tbh I don't really think tris' posts are scummy.

this was the main post that made me go 'this is town'

i don't feel that scum are gonna defend a buddy here in this way, and scum are also not gonna stop someone from scumreading someone else if you know what i mean

very early logic, but i see something in it

I honestly disagree with this one.
The game is in such an early phase, that this can (and almost should) come more easily from scum than town.
I'm not specifically advocating for S/S, but even that isn't outside the realm of possibilities.
I'm thinking scum!Testa pocketing town!tris, or two scumsters building early "distance" by the way of "two scum would NEVER DO THIS"

is this a meta read on gamma or like a "general tell"?

can you elaborate how you got the list of people in 140?

general

it's my gut. I know I'm town. My feelings are that Tris is just confusing town thats doing what she thinks is good town play but those not in the know think she's scummy. Alch and I are mind melding as usual.

Test, Mizzy and Eg all feel like they are doing things.

Ditto Sircake although in hindsight some of his wording is but I'm chalking that up to it being sircakez. I'm actully town reading you for a pretty silly reason but eh.

wich leaves us with....

Gamma Emerald
EchoVision
UnaBombaH
Iconeum



ta dah?

OK, I feel like this has it's ups and downs.
Especially the bolded part I dislike - would you actually think it's more likely that scum are NOT ~doing things~ D1?
To me this feels like you are lumping people together with very little effort behind the read.
One of them might be scum - all of them might be scum.
Once again, I admit myself that it's still rather early, but I do not think it's a good idea to make such a group of townleans just ~because~ instead of trying to find differences between the lot of them.

[UnaBombaH]

Which is why Alch's wagon attempt sucked.

I strongly disagree with this. Ico normally gets scum read so I could easily envision a scum Ico not wanting to post in fear that he gets scum read. He's (Alch) also correct when he says that Ico can react to his wagon when he gets back. I'm also sympathetic b/c town me has been pushed for voting a scummy inactive slot. No, he's actually taking initiative and that's + town. If anyone is scum here its Gamma who basically calls Ico scum in 159 but doesn't vote until Alch votes. Why is your focus on Alch but you are ignoring Gamma?

Have I ever told you that "Nero" means "genius" in finnish?

idk if there's three or four scum with this player count so let's go for 3, that's 3/12 scum

This stinks.
Mainly because it feels like "scum pretending not to know".

also i feel obligated to point out that of you're town, the odds of a random other player also being town are 8/11, not 9/12

..and this as well.
So it turns out that was Echo with the worst post of the game so far^^

Seeing as the game is 12 people, I think it’s extremely unlikely we have 4 scum
I’m kinda leaning this as a townslip, does anyone know if zany speculation like this is common from EV?

Way too simple interpretation. Way way way too surface-level. Anyone could easily fake what Echo just said there.
Absolutely no reason to townread any of it.

is the fact that i explicitly stated that i was holding off my vote the problem?

Yes.
Exactly just that.
I think townies need to be open about their reads, and explain them as well as they can.
But I think townies should also avoid explaining their own actions and reactions to a certain degree.
If people are unable to see why you did something, they should ask or point it out, and then it's time for explanations.
But explaining every gameplay-decision you make gives off the vibe that you are trying to cover your own back, and also takes away the opportunity from others to start a dialogue based on things they don't understand or disagree on.

I don't see what Una is seeing in Datisi.

Ico has smart words. Bit anxious about that slot just cos of Datisi's attitude early.

No longer convinced I see what Nero was seeing. There's a surprising amount of talk this game that comes down to "is this or isn't this early stuff joking". I feel like we're already getting past that?

Mizzy was on a reasonably similar wavelength with me up until this post (it seems), but here seems to disagree with me on almost everything.
Interesting turnaround.

Anybody think Echo is leaning on their playstyle here to avoid actually scumhunting

I think everyone is getting that vibe from Echo. At least 3 people have called him on his playstyle.

..and it's also just potentially one of two very opposite things.
Lazy scum that won are able to spot and call out, or lazy town (kek) who scum want to push early to come across towny.
Once more - whatever Echo has posted so far that I've read, has been very barely AI if at all.
So far he's on the policy lynch -shortlist, but not anywhere else for me.

Votecount:
Alchemist21(5): Testarossa, Egix96, SirCakez, Iconeum, Echovision
Echovision(2): Datisi, Mizzytastic
Iconeium(1): Gamma Emerald
tris(1): UnabombaH
Datisi(1): tris
Gamma Emerald(1): Nero Cain
Not Voting(1):Alchemist21

Picking this up for myself now that I'm going to need a break from catching up

(falling behind at work )
But I feel like it's either scum!Alch, or there's definitely scum on the wagon.
Obv. CAN be both, but I'm not sure yet - I'll be paying attention to how the wagon develops/halts within the last 10 pages or so.
Testarossa and SirCakez are the two names I'm staring at.
Egix and Echo are both "harmless" for now, even if a bit too close to null to me.
Iconeum is likely town and we just have differing reads.
Alch himself is either a different type of player than what I thought he might be as town, or he might just be scum. Dunno.
Not too familiar with them, just had a preconceived image in my head from the start.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, that was a nice day end.
Didn't even realize we were so close to deadline then.

Gonna start this day by checking Datisi last reads - I feel like they were probably on the right track.

[UnaBombaH]

una could be like lurk scum

I'm not lurk_anything.
I've just been more busy the last week or so than I expected.
I do not intentionally or actively lurk as either alignment.
Anyone who has played with me ever before should know this. And it's more than just meta with me - it's just who I am.

Skitter and alchemist are never scum together here.
I'm willing to put my head on the line with that.

[UnaBombaH]

Skitter and alchemist are never scum together here.

I'm....kinda the opposite. Like the alch push doesn't really make sense to me unless its a bus. like, he's supposedly scummy for voting Ico and meh.
,
I agree with 170 and I think that's just....idk...normal thinking? Was also vibbin with 112

I don't really like how he hasn't been commenting on his wagon and the push on him though.

If I just tell you that them two being scum together makes absolutely no sense to me, AND I'm certain enough of that as to suggest that you can use it in your solve as a fact.
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[UnaBombaH]

I'm going to finish my catchup tomorrow during work, and then have my reads in order.
I'm a little discouraged about Datisi dying though - they were about my only really solid townread.

[UnaBombaH]

OK, I'm fully caught up, but didn't feel like walling it because I already got spoiled during the start of the day.
I usually do those walls to show my progression as I'm reading, but this time around I'd already know what Datisi flipped, and therefore it wouldn't be an honest one.

I have a weird group of slots that all hit similar notes of awkward to me.
tris, NeroCain, Iconeum.

Out of the three, tris was my initial scumster-vote but has actually managed to claw their way upwards in my books.
Not necessarily because I'd agree with their reads or stances all the time, but because their tone feels at least a little more relaxed and genuine.
Still on my radar though.

Nero Cain has come up with some good observations so far, and based on their reads I'd townbin them for now.
But regarding their tone and..."vibe"? There's something there that still makes me feel uneasy.
So on the townier side, but not locked on him yet either.

Iconeum apparently tried to pull this weird agreement with me yesterday while I wasn't caught up to the point.
While I didn't townread them at that point, I didn't outright scumread them either.
But that "appeal" felt a little off to me. Could've been for goofs as well, but somehow I feel like they meant it.

[UnaBombaH]

I didn't get any towny vibes from sircakez D1 btw.
That slot is one of my prime suspects.

[UnaBombaH]

Datisi felt like such an obv.town.
I'm sad he is dead.
Not sure if scum saw any PR-signs (I honestly didn't and I usually spot them very well), or if Datisi was on the right track at least temporarily D1.
Two quotes that resonate well with me are this one:

ok it's past midnihgt and i'm dead and i don't have anything intelligent to offer (i will get to that tomorrow i *promise*) however i wanna share the tinfoil cracktheory becaue i once again don't think i could sleep without sharing it this game day

i keep going between "this is dumb as shit" and "this is REALLY dumb as shit" in my head but whatever

please imagine the guy pointing at butterfly meme

Also there are only 2 scum but thats besides the point.

I'm clearly scum that slipped.

is this a traitor?

..and this one:

weren't you kinda sorta scumreading mizzy and now you're saying rhey were town
scumconeum confirmed ggez

Even with all the tinfoil and crackpots - I can def. see at least one scum being in Ico/skitter/Nero.

[UnaBombaH]

i disagree with a ton of what Una is saying, yet i don't scumread him

like, i'm reading it and i think he believes what he's saying and it's genuine and all

+

Una, u think i'm town or do we need to go manno v dragon first?

+

if we agree that we just think the other has bad takes, but is generally townie, maybe we can find some truth in the middle here

if you think my bad takes are because they are fake... better put some gloves on

..didn't feel genuine to me.
Might've been an attempt at pocketing/appeasing.

[UnaBombaH]

ico, skitt town

tris, testa, sircakez like, probably town
alch/gamma have scum unless ico flips scum
echovision can die

I mean, Datisi DID townlean you both in this readslist afterwards, but that doesn't change the fact that his initial reaction/observation wasn't correct. EVEN IF it might've been a joke.

[UnaBombaH]

you realize that datisi was joking with the 543, right?

That's neither here nor there now.
If Datisi were to be around and confirm that to us, then sure, whatever.
But they did get killed N1, and there are always ~reasons~.

And your stance towards the mizzy/skitter -slot wasn't very consistent with that post tbh.

[UnaBombaH]

i hate literally everything about how skitt and nero are interacting and if i had a 2-shot dayvig i'd shoot both of them

This is also something to note.
It's from a later part of the day, and sort of matches with how I've read Neros posting so far.
Good thoughts and observations, but some of their direct interactions with sussssss slots are scummy.

[UnaBombaH]

here's the proof

and right after, datisi put me as town so please

don't push this like dats was scumreading me lol

Don't worry, I'm playing fair.
I already quoted that list, and admitted that Datisi put you up as town afterwards.

I'm just pointing out things that I noted in their ISO upon rereading it and fully catching up.
No need to get your tail all twisted in a bunch.

[UnaBombaH]

Votecount:
EchoVision(7): Datisi, Egix96, Alchemist21, Skitter30, tris, Iconeum, Nero Cain(ELIMINATION)
Skitter30(2): Gamma Emerald, EchoVision
Gamma Emerald(2): Testarossa, SirCakez
tris(1): UnabombaH

To me, some simple enough wagonomication suggests at least one scum in Testa/SirCakez/Gamma.
And I'm absolutely fine with that, especially since SirCakez and Testarossa have pinged me all along.
Gamma apparently got some heat from others, but to me they just come across like they always do.
It's a hard slot for me to read.

[UnaBombaH]

and on top of that you are now scumreading me for something you were townreading me on yesterday

Wait, what is that?
I thought I was being rather clear with my stance and intentions?
I do not think I've said once that I scumread you.
I grouped you in a trio where I think we have at least one scum - doesn't mean it's you within them.
You reacting this way is once again more suggestive to me than anything I've read or said so far..

[UnaBombaH]

Iconeum is likely town and we just have differing reads.

VOTE: una

hey look, you thought i was townie after i made those posts yesterday, but now you think i'm scum for it because it wasn't genuine according to you?

ALSO, this is just not true.
Even if my "midway catchup conclusion" had you as town at post 632, I wasn't obviously fully caught up to the game.
I made it clear I hadn't read the end-half of the game, and therefore hadn't read 629 - 631 when I called you town there.
Don't go twisting my words and intentions now...

[UnaBombaH]

these posts 'don't feel genuine to you'

which means scum, and not town, right?

Well, like said - these posts made me think you might not be as town as I had initially thought.
You were somewhere in the middle anyway, and those posts feeling ingenuine made me lean a little more towards the dark side during my catchup on the latter half of the game.

[UnaBombaH]

Picking this up for myself now that I'm going to need a break from catching up

Not only did I continuously quote posts in my walls keeping you up to speed where I was reading, but this post should explicitly tell you where I was when I took a break.
I didn't even realize that the day was about to end already!

[UnaBombaH]

Are you being a silly drake, or just scum feeling the pressure here?

[UnaBombaH]

I think you scumreading me for doing ~sorting things~ and pointing out posts from one of our now-confirmed townies is a bit silly.
Especially when you yourself made a mistake in your reasonings for voting me there..

[UnaBombaH]

Mmhm.
I feel like I want a lynch off-wagon from the D1 day-ender.

[UnaBombaH]

Nero Cain has come up with some good observations so far, and based on their reads I'd townbin them for now.
But regarding their tone and..."vibe"? There's something there that still makes me feel uneasy.

Can you elaborate on this?

Not sure if I can or even want to try.
But I have actually played quite a few games with Nero Cain, and I feel like this is a "different iteration " from what I've come to expect from him.
And I don't know if it's necessarily a bad thing, but it's just that it's different, and I think I haven't seen his scumgame yet so..

[UnaBombaH]

Ico is right on this, Una is being dissonant and the push seems sorta faked. Even if he explained why later.

Your interpretation of a "push" is also a bit wonky.
I did not push for Iconeum, even if they reacted to my words as if I was.
I did not vote there, I do not intend to vote there today.
Where's this "push" I keep hearing about?

To be completely honest, I'd love to push for SirCakez anyway, so this might be the best spot for it yet!
VOTE: SirCakez

[UnaBombaH]

Gives you that salty, smoky OMGUS-taste, doesn't it?

[UnaBombaH]

It's outright facetious to say you were not pushing Ico

No, it would be accurate.
I was just throwing out all the things that Datisi had said that resonated with me.
And like I said, AND QUOTED, Datisi wasn't even putting Iconeum in his scumreads.
I also pointed out that Iconeums reaction to my quotes was pinging me harder than anything that I found in the "past".
And as a close 2nd came the posts where he was "buddying" me.
And even there, like I said, it might've just been a joke and I missed his intentions completely.

[UnaBombaH]

So I take it tris Nero and Ico are varying shades of town for you?

These are the names that have been floating somewhere in the grey mass, but continuously bubble to the surface.
They have peaked my interest and pinged me in varying ways.
Ico is on the greener side still, but I think there are reservations there.
Neros content puts him firmly on the green, but like said, he is either trying something new posting style-wise, or he's also keeping up appearances.
tris was sort of an opposite to the other two - my initial read on tris put her on the red side, but she's been posting in a way that makes me think I just misunderstood her early.
And the way that Testarossa has been working that slot and the early wagon on it, makes me lean town!tris because I really have a strong gutfeel of scum!Testarossa.

All of these^^ are more like tonal reads, and therefore will either get stronger or fade quickly the more they post.
It's hard to keep a fake tone consistent throughout the game.

[UnaBombaH]

Una, I think you mentioned somewhere that Alch and skitter slot are never scum together.

Yes, and that's literally all I'm saying.
I can actually see either of the two as

potential scumsters

- not necessarily my own scumreads as of right now though - but they are never scum together.
If one of them is scum - the other is town. Period.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm thinking egix might be my top townread now that Datisi is unfortunately gone.

[UnaBombaH]

You can't say "it's weird that Datisi SRed Ico and was NKed, and some of Ico's posts ping me and some of his posts look like they might be buddying" and then claim that's not a push

Are you even trying?

I dare you to go into my ISO and fetch that bit from there.
Because it's not there, and you are just scum who's trying to "make a case" in order to look more town.
Iconeum already fell for that mistake, and I can sort of understand that if it feels like you are being the target yourself, but I really want to hear your explanation.

If you really read what I wrote during those posts - specifically about Iconeum that is - you would know that
A) there were a very finite amount of posts from them directed specifically at me that I did not like
B) I put Iconeum into a group of 3 based on what Datisi had written, and said that

I can def. see at least one scum being in Ico/skitter/Nero

- and from these three I've already said that both Ico and Nero are still on the townier side of my reads
C) I never said anything about "Datisi scumreading Ico" OR "it being weird in conjunction with Datisi dying".

Ladies and gentlemen, (with literally everyone included - even dragons) may I present to you....scum?

[UnaBombaH]

And you're just calling me scum because you know I'm right so you want to discredit me.

Come on and vote for me then?
Because with your rules of interpretation, you are basically calling me scum now.
But hey, people might still overlook it if you back down now though..

[UnaBombaH]

I'm in a neighbourhood with Alchemist and Una

Hmmm probably only one scum here

Umm.. How about MAX one scum in here.

[UnaBombaH]

This day came and went, I'll catch up when I wake up.

[UnaBombaH]

OK...so I've read.
I currently have too many "soft scumleans" and too few townreads.
A rare issue to have IMO.

One thing I'd like to point at, is the fact that page 1 declares that scum don't have a daytalk - but our hood does.
So putting two scum in that hood, especially IF we're only against two scumsters makes no sense.
Like NO SENSE.
Hence, not probably, but

certainly max one scum in our hood.

Now THAT all being said, I'm trying to decide whether Alch is actually scum, or being pushed by scum as an easier mislynch.
I also think the skitter/whoever -slot was more suspicious than what Alch has been, but I guess it might just be a gutfeel. I think Alchemist comes across more genuine to me?
Gonna ISO them separately sooner or later.

[UnaBombaH]

Fuck it if I know!
But it seems rather simple to me - scum shouldn't have a daytalk.

[UnaBombaH]

Una what makes you think scum are pushing Alch for an easy ML? Because clearly it's not easy since the wagon isn't getting much traction.

I can already smell that lynch..
It's one of those things that just keeps building up from D1, and very often happens D2/D3 anyway.
Might be scum, or what my gut suggests to me. Dunno yet.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, no.
We are in a hood, the three of us.
So never N_M+Alch.
But I am leaning towards saying that one of them is scum.

I've been rather disconnected with this one from the get go, and I do feel sorry for that.
I guess I'll try and get back on it today.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm still not sure why people have been townreading Testa from the start though.
My read on cakez was clearly wrong, but Testa is the other one who I've been scumleaning almost from the get go.

I'll comment more after I hear the massclaim.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, while I used to like N_M

despite

their habit of trolling/lurking/coasting every game, I am now absolutely disliking them for trolling the game.
I feel like N_M should be lynched because of how that hammer went (again), and if they flip town I'm just going to blacklist them.

And no, we haven't had an active hood.

[UnaBombaH]

N_M replaced skitter and pretty much said something like "not gonna post here until one of you becomes conf.town" or something

[UnaBombaH]

I'm also not sure if it means anything, but I think me and skitter both were discussing revealing the hood as early as D1, and Alch was the one who didn't want to do it.
That's why I threw that comment at Nero about both of my neighbors never being scum together.
Not sure if it means anything, just throwing out anything and everything I can think of.

[UnaBombaH]

I don’t use neighbourhoods, they’re bad design, they’re just an arbitrary group of people that end up just getting poe lynched until you hit the scum in it, nothing useful ever happens in a neighbourhood unless it becomes a defacto brewery

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, no.
We are in a hood, the three of us.
So never N_M+Alch.
But I am leaning towards saying that one of them is scum.

I've been rather disconnected with this one from the get go, and I do feel sorry for that.
I guess I'll try and get back on it today.

why can't it be the both of them, hood content or just mechanical speculation?

Well the hood doesn't have enough content to go almost anywhere with.
But purely on the mech-side - if we have 2/3 scum in a hood that has daytalk, in a game where scum don't have daytalk..?
Makes absolutely no sense.
Setup-spec is pretty much always somewhere between "ehhhhh" and "ech", but this is one of those cases where it would just be an unfair and unreasonable thing to do.

[UnaBombaH]

But purely on the mech-side - if we have 2/3 scum in a hood that has daytalk, in a game where scum don't have daytalk..?Makes absolutely no sense.

random thought here: if scum has 2 people in a hood with a town, they just NK the town and have a scum pt with daytalk lel

Well, this exactly.

[UnaBombaH]

Nope

[UnaBombaH]

These days are super short btw.

[UnaBombaH]

After rereading everything that has been said for the past few days, I have an unshakeable feeling that something was close to happening earlier.
But I still want to make sure that we have the full massclaim down before I out it.

[UnaBombaH]

i'm a 1shot jailkeeper

And no result/reportable action?
Silly.

[UnaBombaH]

Testarossa is aligned with the town.

This is actually huge to me.

[UnaBombaH]

After rereading everything that has been said for the past few days, I have an unshakeable feeling that something was close to happening earlier.
But I still want to make sure that we have the full massclaim down before I out it.

so, what's this about?

I was going to say that Testarossa was either a town!PR who fakeclaimed VT (unlikely), or that they are just scum (my initial interpretation of my gutread on them).
Notice how she claimed VT at the top of this page.
This was literally the only way I was going to not push for them today, and I'm glad it turned out like this.

I'm feeling confident that we can nail scum today if I can just get myself to focus and spend time on this.

[UnaBombaH]

Ico is on the greener side still, but I think there are reservations there.

A PR-claim fits this as well, the same way that Testarossas did.
Although I am still wary of the drake.

[UnaBombaH]

Scum have killed two of my more solid townreads so far btw.
A dick move.

[UnaBombaH]

i'm a 1shot jailkeeper

And no result/reportable action?
Silly.

BTW BTW - I really want Iconeum to out an action.
It should've come straight out of the gates with the claim.

We should be hiding nothing in a massclaim - Testarossa is the only exception here that gets forgiven because their role was literally mod-confirmed.

[UnaBombaH]

Jailkeeper sticks a bit out, because another active role, although only 1-shot, which softens it down but is also kind of convenient.

We are literally on the same page here.

[UnaBombaH]

Like I think my lynchpool is currently something like N_M/Alch - tris/Ico.
One in N_M/Alch, and 1/2 in tris/Ico.

[UnaBombaH]

I heavily disagree with this Ico.
The likelihood of you hitting (the right) scum is low anyway.
I also just realized that tris claimed commuter. That's also a bad claim for scum to come up with in this scenario, so I'd argue that the role is genuine.
But the alignment might not be.

[UnaBombaH]

Commuter is practically always town

Well, I sort of think that

UnaBombaH was a Mafia Commuter.

..in a very recent game, and..

Why you wanna lynch in commuter jk claim?

Well, I sort of agree with

Jailkeeper sticks a bit out, because another active role, although only 1-shot, which softens it down but is also kind of convenient.

..and finally..

I think sorting the hood is way to go

That time is now past - if we lynch within the hood solely with the aim of "sorting the hood" we are a day late and a dollar short.
One of Alch/N_M could be scum, but you need to evaluate them based on dayplay and push them for such reasons instead looking to just "sort the hood".
That's a scum agenda now, because it gives one more easy mislynch if we are all town after all.

[UnaBombaH]

I feel like scum!Commuter and/or roleblocker would actually make a lot of sense in a setup that now has confirmed IC and a couple of raw investigatives.

I'm not saying that the Roleblocker couldn't be town, I'm just saying that it's def. not obviously town either.
And there's a foundation for my scumread on you in the way you reacted to my earlier material...very sus.

[UnaBombaH]

Will be working on this tomorrow..

[UnaBombaH]

However I think if you weren't scumreading Nero, anyone should have seen the Nero kill coming by a mile. Now you voted him in the beginning of D2, but seemed rather clueless. Later you at least voted Nero's suspects (counting symbolic NM vote in twilight). So I don't really know where you had your mind in this matter. Why were you using your jk shot anywhere else or not that night?

Once again, on the nose.
I was thinking something like 1-2 shot Roleblocker being a reasonable role for scum, and 1-2 shot Jailkeeper being a reasonable fakeclaim.

My only "gripe" here is that we do not have any other forms of protection claimed, meaning that we are likely(?) either in a 2-scum game with Ico being a scum!Roleblocker, or scum should have some good cover for power.

[UnaBombaH]

I feel like Alch might be a good choice..but N_M might be even better.

[UnaBombaH]

Guess it's better to resolve Ico tomorrow and instead making a first step in sorting the hood.

I'm still worried that I already know what this will turn into.
We mislynch in the hood today and (assuming the game isn't over), scum will either subtly or forcefully push for another lynch in the hood tomorrow.
IF we are all town it's bad.
And even if one of us is scum, it could be either one of Alch/N_M, and I do not feel energetic or confident enough to make sure I'm not the final lynch if it comes to that either.
Which is why I do not want it to be "lets just sort the hood by lynching the scummiest one in there", but instead want people to actually give arguments why N_M/Alch should be lynched.
Think of potentially "solving the hood" as an added benefit instead of the actual agenda.

[UnaBombaH]

You know I would like to like playing with you N_M.
And I think I've actually seen you put in some effort and use ~more words~ to convey some actual meaning and agenda in a game or two.
But you just don't feel like doing it here?

[UnaBombaH]

It's 7 min to deadline.
VOTE: Alchemist

If this is game over, then this game was the most "passive" I have had or seen possibly ever.
If this isn't game over, that vote/unvote by tris looks sus. as all hell...

[UnaBombaH]

Well you can clarify your thought process as you see fit there first.
But I have my own interpretation of it - obviously depending on the flip we are about to get.

[UnaBombaH]

Kill looks weird for tris, because it breaks the Ico/tris pool apart. Tbh I think she just kills Una as scum?

Not the confirmed townie in..you?

[UnaBombaH]

I do agree the kill still feels weird for scum!tris, because it makes her Commuter-claim look even worse.
But hey, that's all WIFOM, and scum!Una could've definitely made that move as well.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm gonna have to take the weekend off from the game again, and since these days are so short it's sort of a bummer.
I'll try to read late on Sunday, and then really work on this on Monday.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea.. But how about the setup now that we know Icos claim was true?

[UnaBombaH]

OK, so I'm finally home, and it's already close to midnight here, so... -_-
Will read and post my thoughts when I wake up + during work tomorrow.

[UnaBombaH]

The thing that is still giving me pause is the fact that if it's a 3man scumteam, yesterday was already MyLo.
Meaning that today would be as well.
Meaning that there would be 2 scum in Egix/tris/Gamma.
If that is the case, I would still bank on scum!tris and scum!Gamma over scum!egix, but I might be putting too much trust on my gutread on him.
He's the one I need to ISO anyway.

[UnaBombaH]

If it was a 2man scumteam all along, there's just one scum remaining within that same group.
So the only thing that changes is the fact that we have a mislynch to use before it's over.
And even then I'd still go tris->Gamma at least until I have done an ISO-dive on egix.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm now here.
If there's anything specific people would like to point me towards, or "make a case" in favor/against anything, I'm all ears.

Other than that, I'm just going to make a separate ISO-dive for egix starting NOW.

[UnaBombaH]

yall are tryin too hard too early zzzzzzzzz

Tbf, I would much rather have that than have the game be boring.

NAI statement, but at least it's not anything LAMIST or otherwise drenched in wine.

Ok, NOW I feel like tris should be voted. ^^

VOTE: tris

Why though? I'm actually getting town feels from 89 .

This feels weird.
Not only because that post from tris seems very much NAI to me anyway, but because he doesn't return to this even after I have said what was on my mind?
So maybe posing to defend a town-slot?

Why would Nero be less likely to make such observations as scum?

This is also something that often makes me go 50/50 on a slot.
It's easier to just throw questions at people in the early game, instead of providing their own thoughts on things.

On the other hand...it's still better than just creating noise for the sake of racking up posts.

I was thinking that scum wouldn't forget that they hadn't moved their vote.

I think that while this assessment might be deeply flawed, it's not something scum would use as an argument?
So I'm arguing that a poor argument by a townie is more likely to me here, than scum looking to make a defence for town!tris.
If that makes ANY sense.

That seems like it would be a luxury for scum, so how does it serve you as town?

This is egix engaging directly with Echo who was playing rather lynchbait-y D1.

But from your perspective, that's what scum want, and you ideally shouldn't want to die.

So was this. I feel like egix was trying to give Echo a chance to redeem themself here, because there were already multiple votes on the wagon with next to no resistance.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Echovision

Consider me unimpressed.

I think this was something most of us felt D1. Eh?

Admittedly I'm not sure how you expect me to be able to answer that, but I will say that the last time I played in a game with Echo, he practically crumbled as soon as a wagon formed on him. The disappointing thing was that he was actually town that time...

And this makes sense to me as well.

All in all, not much of heavy substance D1.
But nothing outright scummy to my eyes either?
Added +town for egix comes from the fact that (to me at least) it seems like Alch was lazily poking towards egix to be the D1-lynch at one point.
If that was S/S, then it was a good show, because almost no one seemed to point at it at the time, but upon a reread it's easily noticable.

[UnaBombaH]

Also this whole quote-wall of a post from egix towards tris resonates with me very well.

i've actually been a less impressed with echo though, so maybe i should switch there.

actually nvm on this. i don't think he's playing like scum

VOTE: skitter

VOTE: skitter
Think she's trying to position herself tactically here

while this is, like, wrong, it's also a bonkers vote for scum to be making in this gamestate

(namely: he's currently the leading wagon. and is following his cw onto a vanity wagon that is extremely unlikely to get traction in the next (i think) 17 hours or whatever it is. survivalistic scum don't really make this vote)

oof. i think you're right. i noticed it earlier, but i didn't want to give up on my scumread, but it's actually a strong piece of evidence UNVOTE:

i've completely changed my mind here. VOTE: Echo

Was there actually anything to make you think that Echo was scum though? Your progression here seems kinda whack.

[UnaBombaH]

Egix, where is your head at rn? You just have tris and me as suspicions?

Independent of that, can you explain your current read on skitter slot?

Yes. Also, my top two town rn are Icon and Nero.

I haven't yet got around to examining skitter's posts, though I didn't get any strong feelings from just seeing her posts while catching up before.

This is the part where I was about to say "so yeah, she's still pretty much null" but then I remembered about not wanting to yeet her D1, but that's because I was more confident in an Echo scum flip and also not wanting to risk a D1 yeet on someone I consider to be a strong player.

Considering this as well though: IF egix is scum here, he has called a bunch of now_confirmed-townies town.

I'm thinking egix might be my top townread now that Datisi is unfortunately gone.

Huh.

That's... even though I'm not really all that into this game, if I dare say so myself?

Once again, if egix is scum here, this is well received imo.
Not going full on paranoid about me potentially attempting to "pocket" him is the other extreme, the other being too comfortable with my townread on him.

I'm in a neighbourhood with Alchemist and Una

This was N_M outing our hood.
LITERALLY 3 MINUTES LATER..

Una, I think you mentioned somewhere that Alch and skitter slot are never scum together.

Yes, and that's literally all I'm saying.
I can actually see either of the two as

potential scumsters

- not necessarily my own scumreads as of right now though - but they are never scum together.
If one of them is scum - the other is town. Period.

Well that would explain this.

Now - this can actually go one of two ways AGAIN.
This was either egix being on the lookout for hints and reacting quickly when something that could be in reference to my post was given (+town?) OR this is scum!egix who was waiting for the opportunity to actually talk about our hood (which he would've been aware of per Alchemist obviously).

I now understand better why people might scumread egix this game. He has done a lot of "grey area" 50/50 calls and reactions.

It's just that, ime, scum don't normally show that much willingness to re-evaluate when tunnelling on people. They feel like they have to get that misyeet through.

Again, I disagree with the assessment, but find it hard to believe that scum would use this as an argument either.
Damnitallllllll.

[UnaBombaH]

{Alchemist, NM, Bomba} - I think it's fair to assume that this neighbourhood is 2t1s, since I agree 2s1t is unlikely due to the daytalk thing and I don't think there's room in this gamestate for the hood to be 3t. I think that Bomba is the towniest in this group, with the scum being a tossup between the other two (aorn I'm like 51% NM 49% Alch, I oughta reread here).

This looks bad in retrospect.
51% for the townslot to potentially push the mislynch over, but keeping the scumbuddy at 49% to make it as close as possible in the event they get flipped.
Fence-sitting with absolute minimal pressure towards the mislynch - that's literally what 1/2 of the scumteam would want to do.

{Ico, tris} - I'm doubting that these two are t/t since having 5 TPRs (not counting neighbours) in a game with only 12 players total seems like overkill to me. I'm leaning towards tris being the s, this is about 75/25.

And this looks bad as well, considering that Ico died last night.
Also fits well with the fact that I've been vocally gutreading egix as town and tris as scum.

That leaves Gamma, whose alignment I guess hinges on whether there are two or three scum?

Same with this part. Mirrors my previous thoughts almost to a T.

can we do alchemist?

Why should I vote Alch over NM? (Don't just say "cos he's your buddy")

Again, looks worse in retrospect.

VOTE: Alch

I guess it's either this or nothing then.

Not sure about this though..
I mean, there were 3 votes on Alch when egix committed. 5 needed.
There was no actual guarantee we were going to get the votes necessary!

Mind you - N_M and GAMMA were not voting at all (or Alch himself obviously).

Tris did a whole different tap-dance with her votes earlier as well.
I guess(??) egix sort of committed into making ~a~ vote when he said he was around before the deadline but...
I arrived literally 7min before the deadline to hammer Alch.
It was not by no means obvious that it was going through there - it was just the only wagon that COULD HAVE GONE THROUGH.

I feel like tris and Gamma both acted worse around that lynch to be honest.
And that should mean something as well, considering it's the only red flip we have so far.
Ech.

[UnaBombaH]

Gonna need a shitbreak -> coffee break -> shower in that order.
Might wash my hands in between.
Then I'll return to make up my mind about the three remaining suspects.

[UnaBombaH]

Ok, well.
There wasn't much of anything else left in egixs ISO.

I'm literally torn between scum!/town!egix.
Doesn't help that the Ico-kill last night makes no sense to me anyway.
Objectively speaking - Testarossa would've been the right kill for scum 10/10 times.

I wanna hear arguments against that before I talk more about it, but Testa being alive today means something to scum.
Hence why I'm still feeling scum!tris and (to a lesser degree) scum!Gamma over scum!egix.

I'm off to do some coaching soon, but will have plenty of time after/tomorrow at work before deadline.
I think I need to ISO Gamma and tris as well before I can feel comfortable with my reads on anyone of them.

[UnaBombaH]

Mostly suspect that scum was too afraid of a potential clear/guilty by Ico's jk shot and that it would be too difficult to vote Ico out as he can postflood the thread if you go against him and can be kind of omgus-y, which fits the pattern of the other kills like Datisi and Nero more or less.

Think about it - Ico had one shot.
If he had managed to land his block correctly last night (on the remaining scum who would be carrying out the nightkill), he could've saved himself anyway.
Meaning that it didn't matter who the scum would've targeted last night - Ico or otherwise - because Ico would'be been able to block the kill if he had targeted correctly.
So scum should've definitely killed the conf.town in you Testa, and then combated the potential "clear" Ico would've brought to the table.
Possible explanations including a theoretical 3man scumteam (= not an actual inno) or just theoretical scum!Ico (could've made me buy that).

So if there's only one scumster remaining, there was a genuine risk last night that Ico might've stopped the kill no matter who was the target, and the potential inno was never going to be as strong as an ACTUAL confirmed IC.

[UnaBombaH]

So you either think that the remaining scum made a poor decision overall with that kill-choice, or that it meant something to them.

[UnaBombaH]

I really need to read tris today to feel any better either way.
Will squeeze that into my workday, so the following ~8hours I guess.

[UnaBombaH]

^^that shouldn't be your main concern though.

[UnaBombaH]

Of course I land a pagetop when I'm not using quotes to reference the post before mine.

[UnaBombaH]

Yea, I'm sorry I wasn't around enough.
Been having a depressing IRL for the past few weeks again.

I do feel comfortable about being able to call tris scum and egix town though.
And I feel like it was very silly to have a 2S-1T hood overall.
I guess(?) it doesn't screw with the actual balance much, but it gives you a very false sense about the setup when you know that the scum don't have a daytalk in their own PT.
And then you put 2 of them in the hood that has a daytalk.
Silly.

Anywho - well played for scum I guess.

[UnaBombaH]

I think the biggest spanner-in-the-works there is the inconsistency of day talk

This.
I'm honestly the biggest culprit here giving N_M a free pass once Alch flipped scum, but I'm not sure if I would have been AS SET ON IT here, if we didn't get the info that scum don't have a daytalk.
That+putting two scum in a neighborhood together feels backwards, and definitely affected my ability to ever solve the game.

That all being said, it's probably my own fault as a player more than it being "unfair".

[UnaBombaH]

I personally feel if neighborhoods are always TTS then it gives town an unfair advantage

I personally think that all 3P-hoods should be either T-T-S or 3xT.
That way I'd argue it's almost certainly still not townsided.
Because whenever it's a 3T-hood, there's still always paranoia, and people who want to "solve the game" by eliminating the hood one by one.

It still creates diversity in gameplay, it generates conversation, and it still means that good players can make it useful for their alignment.
Just my view on it.

[UnaBombaH]

Well if that was meant to be the case then it would be part of the normal guidelines.

And we both know that isn't the case. Hence, there's no conversation to be had about the normalcy of things here, nor should anyone question it imo.
In my mind it was a good setup because at least it was different but not cheesy, and didn't feel overwhelmingly unbalanced in any direction.

Also only 52 pages. Lack of conversation definately helped scum in my opinion more than the game setup.

Yes, we agree on this.
I'm not arguing this was poor design by any means!
If anything, I'm saying that my judgement on the matter is poor..