Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[the worst]

i believe you mean "what? the duck?"

hello friends <3 who wants to help me get up to speed?

[the worst]

flipping town is rarely a good idea unless you're a scummisae.

[the worst]

MT having a chance to win and not taking it is like, compelling. cld you elaborate pls

[the worst]

ali is what MT is saying consistent with your read on the gamestate?

[the worst]

>>Morning declined a coinflip chance at winning the game, despite loathing playing scum. Hectic locktowned Morning which he does with incredible accuracy.

this part (particularly first) fills me with more confidence than the balance. i think you post somewhat well as scum, but you don't strike me as the type to intentionally go hard deepwolf as opposed to just trying to win the game.

i'll also admit that like without context i don't really 'get' the situation where you would've won the game but i'm trusting ali to do the thinking thing for me.

[the worst]

are lavender and tanner cleared or something?

[the worst]

i feel like if i was spectating i'd just think it was krazy and call it a day but i am spoiled on krazy's alignment and know that the world is a dark fucking place

[the worst]

first impressions make me want it to be pooky but i think i need to like, do due diligence on you > MT

[the worst]

i promise not to be useless ;-;

pooky, i see you saying it's MT. can you like go into a bit of what you're seeing?

[the worst]

i'll give you some fruit, do you like grapes?

[the worst]

so do ducks, grapes are gr(e)a(t)pe

[the worst]

how did you even remember which post I was referring to :3

Cause it was really uncharacteristic of me and also Tanner already asked me that question

I was at the eye doctor when I read the Prism bait post, had a heart attack for 0.5 seconds before remembering that scum!Prism would have been hard throwing as Chara to generate that much content right before dying. Then i saw the mafia flip, smiled to myself, n put the phone away.

She made up this story . If you click on the post and my interrogation of her afterwards I show why it's a fake story.

that's an interesting page, let me mull over this.

[the worst]

ngl that was kinda my first impression as well. human memory is fallible and whatever, but way more strikingly i'm not sure if MT retelling a story of how she interacted with the thread when she was unable to post and falling over the facts is like... remotely AI?

[the worst]

hey pooky dude what if

Spoiler:

i don't actually care whether or not MT's story was made up and think it's intuitive for either alignment to make up shit to look townier there

huh what's your read now huh bear?

pedit: ye fire, if you have a better read on MT/ali i'd also appreciate that

[the worst]

i guess you can drop a read on me too if you want but i'm not sorting me

[the worst]

ooohhh shit is this micro 960 pooky?

[the worst]

why do you locktown me?

[the worst]

why do you locktown me?

because Krazy did things he wasn't supposed to.

respectfully, i'd rather win this game without trust tells. what was your read on my slot before krazy did what he did?

[the worst]

MT - why *did* you vote krazy in 4691?

[the worst]

It was prolly like Pooky >>> Krazy >> Alisae then, and now it's Pooky >>>> Alisae > worst

and when exactly did this flip around?

[the worst]

Trust tells aren't like, frowned upon because they're overpowered strats to get free town winz yeet lol. they're frowned upon because they compromise the structure of a mafia game and put people in a position where they're clearing a slot for shit that has nothing to do with the game. you both have fake ass townreads on me and I'm suing.

[the worst]

Pooky I want you to talk around the way Krazy flipped out of this game and explain why you're never voting me. I also want you to give me like two other pointers on why MT is scum because I've fabricated cute stories like that literally out of nowhere as both alignments to sell my feelings and I am not even convinced she's making the story up.

[the worst]

ok but why does it matter to you? You know your alignment - you think it has to be me as scum. Nobody believes me when I say you're scum so I'm almost 100% dead today.

So why does it matter to you?

I know I'm a slimy bastard and I know you know I'm a slimy bastard but secretly I have an honour code and I'm fairly anti meta so letting myself cruise along off the back of a literal actioned trust tell would make me feel gross about this game.

[the worst]

Pooky, the way you fix this game's integrity is sorting my slot in good faith. Policy elims are bad for a whole other reason.

Trust tells aren't like, frowned upon because they're overpowered strats to get free town winz yeet lol. they're frowned upon because they compromise the structure of a mafia game and put people in a position where they're clearing a slot for shit that has nothing to do with the game. you both have fake ass townreads on me and I'm suing.

I will quote every single post I spent defending Krazy today, if you like. I have no read on you specifically, though, that is correct

Actually, I locktowned Krazy back on... D2ish? I can go all the way back to there.

The only one with a fake townread on you is Pooky, with a fake scumread on me to boot

ok fair I was lashing out and probably threw you into the firing line too quickly.

[the worst]

Pooky if you're town I need you to show me that you see the similarity between this gamestate and micro 960. if you're indignant that you're being miselim'd, stop now and do something towny. don't squabble with MT because if she's scum, you're being dunked on again.

[the worst]

gather round children, let me tell you a tale of a boi called Creature. Once upon a time he could be read by literally whether he posted more than once per prod timer. It wasn't a trust tell, he never brought attention to it. My boy just sucked at scum.

Fast forward a year or so - scum!creature puts in a bare amount of effort in a high profile very large game on another site, and coasts to an endgame Victory. That game was automatically shittified just because Creature was so infamously poor at scum that he could cruise by on minimal effort.

What's our takeaway? Go back and ask why you're actually townreading Krazy. Ignore the exit. I'm not going into f4 if it means I'm a shitty mis-elim because people have had the time to reevaluate and realise that trust tells are meaningless.

[the worst]

ok but why does it matter to you? You know your alignment - you think it has to be me as scum. Nobody believes me when I say you're scum so I'm almost 100% dead today.

So why does it matter to you?

I know I'm a slimy bastard and I know you know I'm a slimy bastard but secretly I have an honour code and I'm fairly anti meta so letting myself cruise along off the back of a literal actioned trust tell would make me feel gross about this game.

?

That was directed at Tweetie.

ah fair, I assumed you were hand waving my honour code thing. I've claimed down a bit.

[the worst]

do you see how long this game is? I've been trying to sort people for the last 190+ pages and I frankly suck at it.

I'm not gonna read back tbqh I'm just here to ride in on a horsie and kill the scums and save the day. I'm not asking you to carry me, I'm a big boy and can make my own decisions (under duress). just stop bickering about something I don't care about and let me see inside your soul.

[the worst]

I think it's Alisae :/

[the worst]

I think I'm even more town than I was in 960 but sure ask me anything you want about any part of this game.

alright:
- idrc about the story from MT you think is fabricated. can you give me cliff notes on why else you think she's scum?
- let's work this backwards - why did you think krazy was scum originally and are you satisfied that what you saw does come from a town mindset etc. egc ?

[the worst]

that's a really scary thought

I prepared it just in time for spookyween.

[the worst]

i feel like you're too comfortable with pooky & MT fighting.

[the worst]

if someone puts you to L-1 i will taunt you with the hammer vote until you cry.

[the worst]

All I can do is just wait till everyone realizes its fucking Pooky there's nothing left for me to do

i mean everyone left who can be scum has self-meta'd themselves clear so, again, we must assume that scum have outplayed their meta which means i'm going to need to make you suffer a bit.

you're dead set on it being pooky - why did you vote MT when i replaced in
obligatory why are you clearing my slot question `-`

pedit: don't threaten to replace out

[the worst]

i didn't think you would, sorry for the precautious response, i did a bit of a :!:take

[the worst]

i guess that answers my obligatory "why are you clearing my slot" question.

like i'm going to reiterate, this game has been meta'd to death and "i am good at scum therefore i would not half ass this game as scum" is an overwhelmingly invalid take and admittedly i have no idea what prism's meta is so i'm kinda looking at the posts on this page and feeling like you expect me to feel something but feeling nothing.

[the worst]

it's not against the rules but it's a pretty repulsive cheap cop-out if you can't point to actual posts and explain why your theory is valid.
i'm sorry what are you saying about hammering nacho?

[the worst]

will later, at work atm
ngl i'm not particularly sympathetic to "i am playing awfully ergo i am town" like i'd rather an actual explanation of why i should think you were experiencing real thoughts if you were

[the worst]

*blinks*
HURT: alisaea...................

[the worst]

i'm going to do my thing before ending this phase but ali is openwolfing

[the worst]

you need to kill me today because i'm reading you correctly and pooky/MT will just go at each other's throats again tomorrow. :/

you were fine lurking as long as i was trying to sort between those slots. as soon as i called out that i think it was you setting them against each other, you 1) utterly failed to towncase yourself, 2) openly started posturing a f4 of {ali, pooky, tweet, whoever}

is Tanner Datisi?

[the worst]

you need to kill me today because i'm reading you correctly and pooky/MT will just go at each other's throats again tomorrow. :/

you were fine lurking as long as i was trying to sort between those slots. as soon as i called out that i think it was you setting them against each other, you 1) utterly failed to towncase yourself, 2) openly started posturing a f4 of {ali, pooky, tweet, whoever}

is Tanner Datisi?

If you're reading me correctly then the game ends and Pooky/MT don't go after each others throats because the game ends

if
you
miselim
me
the
game
continues

this posturing is ridiculously fake.

[the worst]

thanks for leaking the game doesn't end after you kill me tho!

this post is so far beneath alisae-who-is-actually-trying-to-solve lol

[the worst]

tw thinks I lolcat after replacing into a prism who is in a really good position to win the game and just ruin it

you are not lolcatting. you are clearly trying. idrc whether you've half assed this game because whatever or whether you think you're just gonna win no matter what you do - "i am good scum and i suck here" is transparently bad faith play and i'm sorry if i refuse to townread your pred because of literal votecount. ever since i called you out you've been transparently pushing scum agenda.

[the worst]

Look at me I'm faking everything and I can't play scum and I'm actually terrible at mafia

This is wild. I'm not going to drop to the level of having a tantrum because you want to miselim me. If you're town, backtrack and help me solve this game in good faith. If you're scum, fine, keep up the angstposting. If I'm eliminated today I'm pretty sure town knows to elim you tomorrow.

[the worst]

tw thinks I lolcat after replacing into a prism who is in a really good position to win the game and just ruin it

you are not lolcatting. you are clearly trying. idrc whether you've half assed this game because whatever or whether you think you're just gonna win no matter what you do - "i am good scum and i suck here" is transparently bad faith play and i'm sorry if i refuse to townread your pred because of literal votecount. ever since i called you out you've been transparently pushing scum agenda.

I don't make this many mistakes in this position hell Prism doesn't even replace out hell Prism doesn't even reach 800+ posts

ok you literally can't even try to self meta yourself without talking about vote count (post-creature i am not taking postcount seriously) or angleshooting that ~~~Prism neeeever replaces out here~~~ because........ raisins? like once again you aren't able to even try to give me a solve in good faith which makes me think you know you're lying.

[the worst]

this is 100% my town meta
this is 100% my town meta
this is 100% my town meta
this is 100% my town meta
this is 100% my town meta
this is 100% my town meta
this is 100% my town meta
this is 100% my town meta
this is 100% my town meta
this is 100% my town meta
this is 100% my town meta

this is like exactly the same thing that every single non-cleared person in the game has been saying.

[the worst]

(post-creature i am not taking postcount seriously)

BECUASE UR SCUM

because i like playing mafia and want to be good at mafia and like using content that is actually in the mafia game thread : )

[the worst]

see appparently everything I post is scum to TW and he's going out of his way to make everything I look be scummy
its a scum tactic kill him

i mean
you stopped pretending to be playing in good faith
and started spamming posturing nonsense
am i scum for pointing out... that you stopped pretending to play in good faith and started spamming posturing nonsense? ..... i didn't think so.

[the worst]

I'm pretty sure TW isn't scum

then I'll consider voting MT if tw flips town

LOL

[the worst]

i actually think you thought you had this one in the bag.
when did my reads get this good?

[the worst]

you wouldn't be able to catch me because I wouldn't be playing like garbage

this is a patently ridiculous argument.

[the worst]

ok again
let's say it's made up
what does that mean for her alignment? i've made up cheesier stuff than that to illustrate a point.

[the worst]

does the story make her look towny? did it earlier? idc about it

[the worst]

i feel like scum!me probably drops it there because he can't be bothered but i feel like town!me is way too stubborn and would insist on hitting his head against that wall until one of them broke

[the worst]

thanks

[the worst]

it's actually more the fact that you're fighting with me about this story being true that is implicating you as scum actually. it doesn't make sense for Town!You to fight with Scum!Me about this.

i'm aware it doesn't make sense but i literally do not buy that this is stubborn scum!MT over indignant town!MT?

[the worst]

can you talk to me about town!prism? ali is like, explicitly slimy.

[the worst]

i feel like i see a pretty clear distinction between these posts but i am biased.

[the worst]

If I'm being honest I have no idea what the fuck Pooky's alignment is. All he's done since I've been here is ramble about MT's eye doctor story and act cute.

[the worst]

Wait he's not acting.

be cute*

[the worst]

i just need to know where in the first 800 posts you made sense
if nothing else
please
i really don't want to iso dive you

[the worst]

I kinda get the idea that this is either your towngame or you're trying to deepwolf thereby necessitating that this look like your towngame. I had intuitied that based on the fact this game is ongoing and there is one scum alive. I'm a bit tired of self meta because for the thousandth time every possible scumslot alive has a meta reason why they could never be scum. you witnessed micro 960 first hand. if scum can't explain why X is their towngame, they aren't going to get far as a mafia player.

What I'm asking for is where your reads came from. Working outside of the thing you think MT is lying about why is she scum.... Working outside of Krazy's fuckery why am I town..... why is prism town? is like a freebie but probably interests me the least of the 3 right now because your other reads feel more poignant.

[the worst]

Like all your self meta does is remind me that you don't want me to scumread you. Funny about that.

[the worst]

Please sell me on those reasons, barring the factors I just asked you to avoid please. If you think Alisae was town surely you put some level of credence in eir insistence that MT could have like tried to actually win the game as scum by now?

pedit: oh but you dooooo

[the worst]

fine towncase prism, convince me I'm wrong

[the worst]

catboi appreciation page only post cute cats! <3

Pooky how dare you do this to me. HOW DARE YOU.

[the worst]

HURT: no one

[the worst]

I'm starting to see why your head fell off when I said I thought it was Alisae. My bad.

VOTE: MT I think you're right but I still maintain your "made up story" tell was silly >_>

[the worst]

HURT: MT mb

[the worst]

Why do you trust Pooky over me, worst? You were right on the money for a good minute when you said there is no way I pass up a free win as scum. the stress of playing scum is actually unbearable

This is pretty valid without context but when actually reading D2 it hit me that going for the win during a second fight elim just before CLAP/Chara flipped would mean that you would actually be gambling the entire game on whether or not two townies logged in before the deadline. I definitely agree that you don't enjoy playing scum and wouldn't drag the game out unintentionally but I reeeally don't feel like you had a choice here in practice. Trying to stall out d2 would be like rolling for a 10% chance of victory and a 90% chance of horrible death and I don't really think anyone takes those odds.

Also Prism was pretty towny eod2 and that struck me harder and first.

[the worst]

Hello hello! I am-

really confused. The role pm was hella confusing. I'm not reading 200 pages. Someone can just give me a summary or specific pages to read.

oh hello noraa

[the worst]

Tanner can you please read the Prism/MT stuff which I forcibly extracted from Pooky with calipers? Like I don't want to become a broken record but you clearly haven't, and I agree that his "made up story" tell was explicitly not alignment indicative. But I think my reason for townreading MT was in hindsight fairly stupid and I'm not sure there's a reason for scum!Pooky to talk me down from Prism and onto MT?

[the worst]

Just put the time you have into finding the scums. I don't think it's you and I doubt it's Pooky either.

[the worst]

MT if you're town AtEing at Pooky isn't helping like anyone who is town in this gamestate realises that literally any f4 is going to be a shitshow and hitting scum today is our best bet. Are you seeing town!Pooky or not?

[the worst]

I don't remember Krazy posting at all in the eod2 flurry. But either way this argument is equally easy to make as either alignment but I really don't think it's a clearing one. Going for a deepwolf position rather than trying for a very unlikely D2 win when you're about to be the sole member of the scum faction is like, an objectively correct play.

[the worst]

The story tell sucked hard.

[the worst]

I don't remember Krazy posting at all in the eod2 flurry. But either way this argument is equally easy to make as either alignment but I really don't think it's a clearing one. Going for a deepwolf position rather than trying for a very unlikely D2 win when you're about to be the sole member of the scum faction is like, an objectively correct play.

Krazy definitely posted that night. I made my vote probably 4-5 hours after Krazys last post. he wasn't around during the morning where everyone freaked out though, yes

:/

[the worst]

Tanner - what is your take on micro 960 vs. Coalition Pooky?

[the worst]

ok so 4975 is talking about how tweet was pushing for suji and not really looking around for other options. ok. why is that scummy?

it's not scummy at all. scanning MT through that phase it felt like she was trying to avoid rocking the boat - functionally her contributions during that phase were pushing an empty slot for reasons which were dubious at best. I haven't seen her reevaluate until after the phase - afaict this is just scum laying low.

4976 - why in the ever loving hell would tweet keep moving puppy up her readslist if she knew he was about to flip scum!chara?

Because Chara is about to flip scum and leave MT as the last member of her faction..... like there is no choice in this phase EXCEPT to go for counterintuitive associatives and establish yourself as the deepwolf. we aren't looking for "things scum normally do D1 to distance", we are specifically looking for fake associatives which are manipulated to look nonaligned.

i get that it was important to keep both scum alive until twilight because white flag, but literally the only people even looking in puppy's direction were me (who was decently suspected at the time) and hectic - he wasn't in real danger. and she wasn't trying to get him spared either, she'd been consistently pushing for fights

....... Scum know that puppy is just about to flip Chara.... town seemed hellbent on sticking to fights to flip Chara. Why would anyone as scum rock the boat here especially when it's white flag? Doing anything else would just paint an X on your back.

4977 - ok? i mean considering there were two scum alive on d2 and we only know one of them, the argument "none of your fights were scum" can like. be made about anyone other than me. maybe even me for late day two.

Agree this is a nulltell but I do think MT was trying to set herself up to endgame on D2. Her lack of voting trajectory between pushing my (town) slot and compromising on a (town) elimination at deadline should be telling you something.

4979 - i mean, she appeared first. if she were scum with puppy, wouldn't she, at the very least, warn him not to show up? or like, wait a bit to see if anyone else is gonna appear to see if she actually has to?

I don't understand this point I'm sorry



The devil's advocate case isn't very strong. I'll hear out both Noraa and Pooky if this game keeps going and like, might actually put in some semblance of effort or something, but MT makes perfect sense to me as scum and I don't think this is really scum!Pooky and I really don't feel like that D2 was prism's scumgame regardless of what Ali was like.

[the worst]

also why are you asking me this

because this reads like micro 960 Pooky if Pooky had realised he was fucking up the gamestate and needed to dial it back several notches. I haven't gone and meta'd him because meta is for nerds but this looks like his towngame dude.

[the worst]

I am starting to doubt that you'll even need to burn me.

[the worst]

I've had enough jumping out of windows for one month but like, I'll also be quite disappointed and whatever

[the worst]

ok let's pretend you're scum and you have an opportunity to
- grab towncred for your deepwolf immediately while town are frantically screaming about getting literally any elimination through and the candidates are not you or your scumbuddy who would instantly lose you the game
- see this gamestate and wait around a couple of hours ~just in case~ like any two nonvoting townies log in and vote correctly and run the risk of going into the rest of the game as the sole scum without doing literally anything that even looks townsiding in d2

I don't even think the answer is as profound as I'm explaining it here? Someone who has to be the solo scum for the rest of the game is going to do towny looking things when they see opportunities to yes

[the worst]

I need to work, I'll be back to this later today.

[the worst]

huh wild seeing 555 here

[the worst]

I am like on the fence about how much free time I'll have before deadline but particularly @noraa/tanner/lav has MT posted anything which isn't just literally more self meta?

[the worst]

i'm gonna go right on ahead and assume nobody is going to entertain a cw suggested by caught scum and focus on other stuff. seeya all postgame.

[the worst]

I think Prism was towny, and I think this is Pooky's towngame. MT's posting trajectory is also like utterly in line with scum who has had the squeeze put on them - she felt very comfortable coasting into endgame while Ali was here and Pooky's 1v1 wasn't gaining any traction. As soon as people actually started considering her scum, she's flipped to being willing to consider whoeverthefuck as long as it isn't here.

That's not a townie trying to solve the game, it's a scumbag trying to survive it.

[the worst]

her defence again doesn't have any solving/actually finding scum, it's the sum of "WoOoOaH i could never be scum because {dubious reasons here}" and like, frankly literally all four of our slots have already drowned the thread in self-meta-vomit.

[the worst]

i literally survived micro 960 because i got into xylo and was like "i'd never set up a xylo this bad" and everyone bought it and elim'd pooky while he was self destructing
it's just not a defence which is remotely difficult to fabricate as scum.

[the worst]

I'm surprised worst can be so correct in his first post but deteriorate into being so wrong

i literally survived micro 960 because i got into xylo and was like "i'd never set up a xylo this bad" and everyone bought it and elim'd pooky while he was self destructing
it's just not a defence which is remotely difficult to fabricate as scum.

You know that's the defence Krazy was using, right? The only one here who has set up a terrible Xylo for themself was Krazy, as sparing Tanner was ultra suicidal and well, it would have gotten him killed.

I don't really care what my pred argued? I'm still town. What is the point of this post? I'm making the case that making a case which is entirely self meta is what literally everyone alive has done and shitting up the thread with more self meta is not really making me think you're being sincere.

[the worst]

her defence again doesn't have any solving/actually finding scum, it's the sum of "WoOoOaH i could never be scum because {dubious reasons here}" and like, frankly literally all four of our slots have already drowned the thread in self-meta-vomit.

also that's all four of us as you say, why are you picking me out specifically..?

Because I townread the other two, am spoiled on my own role pm, and your tune dramatically changed after we started pushing you.

[the worst]

I'm surprised worst can be so correct in his first post but deteriorate into being so wrong

i literally survived micro 960 because i got into xylo and was like "i'd never set up a xylo this bad" and everyone bought it and elim'd pooky while he was self destructing
it's just not a defence which is remotely difficult to fabricate as scum.

You know that's the defence Krazy was using, right? The only one here who has set up a terrible Xylo for themself was Krazy, as sparing Tanner was ultra suicidal and well, it would have gotten him killed.

I don't really care what my pred argued? I'm still town. What is the point of this post? I'm making the case that making a case which is entirely self meta is what literally everyone alive has done and shitting up the thread with more self meta is not really making me think you're being sincere.

Who are you accusing of "I'd never setup a xylo this bad"? My point is the only person who even did that argument was

your slot

, so I don't get what your point is in that it's easy for scum to make that argument.

It's anecdotal. I'm saying a defence entirely based on "wow this can't be scum me because xyz" is both really weak, and secondly literally the pillar every scumspect left alive is standing on `-`

[the worst]

her defence again doesn't have any solving/actually finding scum, it's the sum of "WoOoOaH i could never be scum because {dubious reasons here}" and like, frankly literally all four of our slots have already drowned the thread in self-meta-vomit.

also that's all four of us as you say, why are you picking me out specifically..?

Because I townread the other two, am spoiled on my own role pm, and your tune dramatically changed after we started pushing you.

my tune went from what to what..?

We went from winning 100% as long as Prism isn't scum, to winning only if exactly Pooky is scum. But Pooky is being suicidal and avoiding any chance at winning in favour of getting me eliminated, which is dumb for him to do was scum. maybe something about that is changing my tune

You can believe that my reaction is scummy if you want but I don't see it. It's not end of the road for me as scum, it's end of the road for me in general

i do find the way you suddenly turned the hell on disingenous. or do i find it disingenuous that your foot was off the gas when i first replaced in, idk, it's something in that tone shift which really irks me.

i don't really have a response to this i just think you're scum

[the worst]

(*ﾉω-)

Well anyway, if Pooky is town, he should vote Krazy and I will join him. That's my last offer at us winning together. I guess it doesn't really make sense for Pooky to do so if he's town that believes I am scum, but we really lose in that case. I would argue that Pooky will have a higher chance of beating me in a 1v1 on a later day, anyway, so he should take that risk. I really want him to take that risk

Otherwise, if Pooky keeps voting me out, then you have to eliminate him tomorrow after me. Don't let him shake free of three eliminations. Scum!Krazy gets the win in that case but can't really help it. I tried.

*rubs eyes*
1) i am not krazy
2) pooky is smart enough not to be like transparently manipulated

[the worst]

am i wrong on pooky or prism?

[the worst]

you can spend whatever time you like on this game, but it boils back to one thing: there's one scumbag alive and i'm here to roast their ass.

pedit: appreciate Krazy held this slot for a long time. you're still trying to get a miselim on me, not him. please acknowledge that i exist.

[the worst]

am i wrong on pooky or prism?

Is this directed at me?

no it's addressed at pooky
/fart noise

of course it's at you

[the worst]

you can spend whatever time you like on this game, but it boils back to one thing: there's one scumbag alive and i'm here to roast their ass.

am i wrong townreading prism, or am i wrong townreading pooky? if you're not trying to convince me of one of these things, i have no reason to engage with you atp.
i also need to get to work so i might just need to like, disengage anyway

[the worst]

i am guilty of nothing, except maybe of being terrible at this game

this is a fucking mood.

[the worst]

I was once weak and human too.

Pooky, I think MT is pocketing you.

[the worst]

hahahahahahaha
if this is scum!Pooky I don't even know what to think

[the worst]

Like I'm sorry but I've seen town!pooky so cornered and AtEing that his AtE is basically scum AtE and this is so absurd and so far from trying to sound towny it's actually stopped sounding like micro 960

[the worst]

if lavvo or tanner aren't around to maj before deadline like...obviously I'll do it but I won't be happy about it

[the worst]

I mean I don't feel like there's going to be a tomorrow ...

[the worst]

fam I wish I was scum

[the worst]

can I pat your avi

[the worst]

*pats bat*
don't worry, I'm a townie ducky

[the worst]

that bat is so damn cute

[the worst]

hewwo

[the worst]

what's changed since I went to sleep?

[the worst]

does datisi need me to pat his avi and tell him I'm town too?

[the worst]

I'm at the point where it morning yeeet flips town I will probably laugh hysterically and then cry for like the entire night phase

[the worst]

Like
They aren't town AtEing this hard
Surely
Who the fuck else is scum

[the worst]

*sits in the corner patting the bat as though in a trance*

[the worst]

respectfully
scum have literally by necessity outplayed themselves
I have a much easier time believing that you are scum who is capable of AtE/selfmeta manipulation than Pooky is scum who has a very nuanced read on you / talked me off voting the prismslot / rather than meaningfully AtE'd wrote an epic poem about how traumatising this game is.

[the worst]

Dats will you be around before deadline?

[the worst]

That's like early morning for him and I'd be happy to hold hammer since it's like 8am for me

[the worst]

Can't you hear how fast my heart beats?....it is on the precipice of breaking. constantly.

[the worst]

This game is a draw in my heart

[the worst]

because I'll definitely be around and deadline

[the worst]

that was an offer in case you wouldn't be here

to be explicit: I unvote, you vote, I hammer before deadline.

[the worst]

will you be around for deadline?

[the worst]

the person who hammers is only important because we're letting this phase run to literally the 11th hour. if you're around, it's not important. if you don't check in then my exact only option is to hammer Pooky and I'm not happy about it. If you let me hold the hammer and noped out I would hammer MT before deadline yes absolutely.

[the worst]

noraa obvscum ez game

[the worst]

Fight Votecount 5.5

Noraa--------------------------

PookyTheMagicalBear -------

(2)

Tanner

, Morning Tweet,

Morning Tweet----------------

(3) the worst, PookyTheMagicalBear, Noraa,

Lavender

----------------------

the worst--------------------------

Tanner

-------------------------

Not Fighting:

(1)-

Lavender

,

---

Somehow, artificial graphics of some kind on the other side of the fence animated a bright, vivid metropolis. The alleyway was dimly lit and had no one but the actors, but the intermittent activation and deactivation of 23rd story here, 42nd story there in the lights on the buildings suggested life and a thriving populace. Tanner had his eye on the city, and was entranced by the illusion. He knew it was fake, just more of Nahdia's illusions and production devices. But it seemed so real.
PookyTheMagicalBear was trudging away from Morning Tweet, afraid of her accosting him again, and he walked in front of Tanner's view in the process. Tanner was instantly infuriated, and shoved PookyTheMagicalBear out of the way, making him stumble and fall. When Tanner could see the buildings again, one of them had gone completely dark, every window all the way up to the top floor. And he had no idea why.

With six alive it takes four to make a decision. The day will end in (expired on 2020-10-29 17:27:24)

+ Lav on pooky

[the worst]

peasant wagon best wagon

[the worst]

VCA on ICs voting mostly ties back to IC bias => the fact ICs here were chosen by the scumteam => helo wifom rabbit hole

[the worst]

Just what this game needed, more self meta
at least that one was funny though

[the worst]

hold on a sec need the Alisae next meme reaction

[the worst]

Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

Discuss

NEXT MEME

[the worst]

I think I want Pooky dead about as much as Pooky wants Pooky dead but will also vote Pooky atp

[the worst]

why must you make me make the decision? why?

THIS IS YOUR OWN FAULT FOR NOT VOTING EARLIER ARGH

[the worst]

I hope you're right to put so much faith in his read v_v

[the worst]

Tanner you can do this. Be the hero we know you can be.

[the worst]

I am willing to pat your avatar too but he's a bit intimidating

[the worst]

HURT: MT
I'm frankly disappointed this didn't get thru d5.

[the worst]

not sorry that you couldn't get Krazy miselim'd earlier, lol.

Honestly there's a nonzero chance you can get my mis-elim here. I'm not going to read this entire game. Pooky absolutely nailed that you are the last scum y'day and he should not have been that phase's elim. frankly: it was a shitty deadline elim on obvtown which happened because the Tanner and Lav were too complacent in their MT townreads.

I'm pretty sure??? Tanner was starting to realise Pooky wasn't scum => by extension it's either me or MT yesterday. His last post mentioned starting to get uneasy on his whole "burn Pooky/tw" stance. And guess what? Pooky was bleeding obvious town yesterday and he was right to be uneasy.

Hectic's MT read is a big old :shrug:
Hectic has a solid towngame. but irrespective of who is mafia we have already accepted that they NECESSARILY outplayed their meta. I'm not really going to lean into the meta suggestion that Hectic absolutely must be correct because 1) scum have played well regardless of who it is, 2) I reeeeeally don't feel like what I've seen of Prism comes from scum.

Noraa if you're scum your pred has won the game. Assuming you're probably town, I'm not sure what to say to you except good luck.

Lav, sorry you're in this position but you passed your opportunity to reevaluate MT yesterday. Do whatever you need to get this right, but please ask yourself why you're still here. ask yourself why you're confirmed. you are here because scum want you to be here, and if you can keep that in mind I think you'll find this a lot easier.

I believe in you guys. (✿^‿^)
don't stuff up (✿^‿^)

[the worst]

I'd love to hear elaboration on why its particularly advantageous to me to clear Lavender. I'd have done Alisae and Tanner, the least elimable slots in the game. Lav, you could at least argue was directed to no-kill and vote Tayl0r in the scum chat.

The only part of the game I'm acutely aware of is y'day/the fact tanner was shot last night after saying he was anxious about locktowning you. I'm not gonna read far enough back. I just need Lav to be self-aware.

This post isn't useful. You're only trying to undermine my point by making vague allusions to the parts of the game I just was not here for.

[the worst]

If Lav and Noraa are on the fence tomorrow I can breakdown all my reasoning for why Krazy doesn't really have any reason to be town outside of emotional stuff and his exit from the game.

If you've been so confident on Krazy for such a long time why did you drop it so hard yesterday? This is a mindset which needs multiple eliminations, not a mindset of seeking truth about alignments.

[the worst]

Whichever of you is town is doing a bad job and I'll explain why I think this post game.

I'm acutely aware of this. My schedule does not permit me to turn this up to 11, and I'm not like, particularly sorry about it. On the flipside I got Pooky and MT right yesterday so I'd argue my reads are actually kinda fine.

[the worst]

ok lav literally proudly refused to reevaluate her read on you yesterday so it literally implicates you. other than that? for the most part i'm just asking her to proceed with caution because scum literally decided who was in this final phase.

Worst is just saying stuff to get himself over the finish line, I'm the only one here who has actually experienced the game >_<

what, i'm a late replace-in ergo i'm just scum trying to get across the line?
this is the most absurdly false stance i've seen in a long time.

[the worst]

-Scum!Morning doesn't clear Lav and bring her to Xylo. That makes no sense given Lav's previous stances

again i have no idea what this is talking about except for super vague "woooow i could never be scum hereeee" which AGAIN is what every single person in the f4 has already done exhaustively. i am talking about what i have seen. last phase, lav dunked on pooky when the momentum was finally turning towards outing you as scum. tanner was starting to reconsider his townread on you. the decision to leave lav alive into f4 explicitly makes sense from scum!MT.

-At no point was I confident on scum!Krazy. I townread him so hard it's not even funny. Your point that I've been playing to set up a line of miselims is false

so you put absolutely no effort into solving me in the last phase and just townbinned me while pooky got miselim'd while spewing town... and now you're super confident that i must be the last scum without glancing twice at noraa... you are literally playing a game which you feel results in pooky=>tw being miselim'd. this response is the kind of thing which is engineered to look sincere and innocent but is bluntly disingenuous regardless of your alignment. the fact you aren't even stopping to think that town!MT also needed to nuke {tw,pooky} the moment she locktowned noraa is a perspective slip - you want to be cleared, but you have no grasp on what town!MT would have done in the last two phases.

i don't blame you for not going through and reading all of this game, I probably wouldn't in your shoes. but your claims don't hold up if you know the context

this is blatant hypocrisy. i'm not going to read the game, and it's whatever that you're trying to be ms. nice bat for saying that's ok. but you can't turn around and discredit my points because i haven't read the game in the same breath.

[the worst]

Look at that! Not a single point about self meta!

this is literally all "i would nEeEeEver do this as scum" self meta................... you got nothin

[the worst]

ok lav literally proudly refused to reevaluate her read on you yesterday so it literally implicates you. other than that? for the most part i'm just asking her to proceed with caution because scum literally decided who was in this final phase.

Sounds like a good reason to kill Lavender and then try to sell it to Tanner that scum!you is keeping him alive for the memes and the nightkill is meant to implicate me

this is nka wifom nonsense and i'm not buying into it. the fact you've already considered this makes me think this defence is just pre-meditated.

Like, that is way easier than this situation is for me. I swear to god that is what I would have done because I probably would just give up in this Xylo as scum. I would not have the conviction to face three people who scumread me and try to sell them on someone who I townread for most of the game.

respectfully, this is eerily close to the argument which got krazy in trouble. nobody would have given up in this xylo. this angery nonsense is what us sick masochists are all here for. please stop trying to undermine the integrity of the game to look townier - your self-towncase is a house of cards and it's not hard to see.

[the worst]

Exactly. You have no idea about what everybody's previous stances were so trying to present it as "Lav, think about why you are here." makes no sense.

every single town ever ever ever should ask themselves why they're alive in xylo. always. every single time. you're not even accusing me of doing something scum indicative. you're trying to undermine me on a theory level when i'm objectively right.

I need help understanding your second line, I'm not sure what you mean

let's roleplay a world where you're town, and locktown noraa's slot.
you need to kill tw and pooky. that's your gameplan. full stop.
the fact you're DENYING that you have been trying to kill {pooky,tw} is blatantly disingenuous if you're town.
and the fact you don't seem to be aware of that means you are scum who is more interested in looking good than speaking the truth.

I can. It reads that you're saying things to get me killed. Town!worst actually like, needs to believe what he's saying. When you're saying stuff like "Think about why you're here Lav" and "If you've been so confident I'm scum, why'd you drop it yesterday?", it's like ??? neither of those things mean anything.

they both mean very different things.
- lav needs to consider why she's here. that's her job as town in xylo. that's level 1 mafia theory, not my opinion.
- coincidentally!! i have added knowledge that you're scum and can plainly see that it's in your interest to leave lav alive.

- i don't think your thoughts are real, so yes i'm going to probe.
- stop quoting something from earlier in the conversation, it reduces the integrity of what we're arguing about.

[the worst]

ok lav literally proudly refused to reevaluate her read on you yesterday so it literally implicates you. other than that? for the most part i'm just asking her to proceed with caution because scum literally decided who was in this final phase.

Sounds like a good reason to kill Lavender and then try to sell it to Tanner that scum!you is keeping him alive for the memes and the nightkill is meant to implicate me

this is nka wifom nonsense and i'm not buying into it. the fact you've already considered this makes me think this defence is just pre-meditated.

Like, that is way easier than this situation is for me. I swear to god that is what I would have done because I probably would just give up in this Xylo as scum. I would not have the conviction to face three people who scumread me and try to sell them on someone who I townread for most of the game.

respectfully, this is eerily close to the argument which got krazy in trouble. nobody would have given up in this xylo. this angery nonsense is what us sick masochists are all here for. please stop trying to undermine the integrity of the game to look townier - your self-towncase is a house of cards and it's not hard to see.

Apologies-- but to clarify, that isn't some kind of special promise from me that's just my vocabulary.

i'm aware. it's also a lie.

[the worst]

it's ok, i'm a bit exasperated as well.
we're the final victim and the villain - they're tiring parts to play.

[the worst]

I still don't see the inconsistency. You realize I tried to get you killed yesterday, right?

yes
literally yes
this is exactly my point
you want and wanted my blood but when pushed you're like "wow i really thought pooky was scum and you were town"
that's disingenuous regardless of your alignment. but it sounds like a nice towny thing to say at surface level.
you are more interested in saying surface nice towny things than explaining your actual sincere thoughts about this game because you are scum.

[the worst]

it's ok, i'm a bit exasperated as well.
we're the final victim and the villain - they're tiring parts to play.

yeah

Or we're both the victims and we're attacking each other, which would really sting

I feel sufficiently hopeless so I'm going to go ahead and reveal that I'm going all-in on you because I figured I lose instantly if I enter not acting like I know which one of you it is. And you were already going to attack me off the bat so I didn't really have a choice.

I do really think it's you over Noraa. But I'm not going to say it's impossible. Just not relevant anymore, i guess.

i am sorry if i'm being rude or anything in my responses I'm not slowing down at all while writing them and i don't mean for them to come off that way

you're not being rude. you're obligated to make me look bad, and you cannot use much truth while doing that because i'm just town here. it's frustrating to be accused of lying when i'm just trying my best. but it's part of the fun.

i wish your elim just got through yesterday T_T

[the worst]

yup I'm definitely stopping until they come back and say what they think first

depends if you have a sincere thought to respond to or if you need to check how likely town are to vote wrong first.

[the worst]

i'm gonna be level
pooky's push on you was clearly coming from town
i think you negligently ignoring his towntells just long enough for him to die, while not checking your read on me but ensuring that i'd be alive for f4 so that you could go for my elim, is a clear scum agenda.

pedit: we could be in endgame at the beach with piña coladas by now

[the worst]

i don't really feel bad that she thinks i'm doing a shit job tbh - there's postgame for feedback & for me to explain how i've used my time as best i could to solve the game. also my read on you is probably just correct and was probably just correct for the later part of yesterday as well. on the downlow i think i'm doing a fine job, she and lav just have the unenviable task of trying to work out which of us is lying through our teeth :/

[the worst]

I felt like I didn't really have a choice. Krazy "towncleared" himself and Prism was Prism

this is exactly why i spent so much time yday yelling about trust tells being shitty reasons to clear someone. this boils down to a lazy excuse to townbin krazzy

just until

it's too late and you can acknowledge that trust tells should not actually be treated as alignment indicative and try to miselim me anyway.

[the worst]

i admire the way you're trying this phase - i sincerely think you're pretty much outed, and swinging a final miselim is really difficult off the back of that.

[the worst]

i don't really feel like i'm wrong on MT or on noraa's slot at all
mt isn't posting anything which she isn't like.. obligated to post.. and i think it's probably the same for me this phase `-`

i'm fine waiting for noraa to have an opinion

[the worst]

noraa if you are actually scum and posted #5593 i will laugh so hard.

[the worst]

this game in general is really funny if noraa is scum

[the worst]

it has been pretty dramatic, even just in the time i've been here.

[the worst]

like.... neither.......... because neither are true........................
hypothetically speaking if we are both town and lose i'll be more shocked by Noraa being scum than you being town

[the worst]

ok I respect the last minute attempt to shade me but you're not winning this one lol

[the worst]

u_u;
I'm ready
I've been ready
deliver us from this folly

[the worst]

That fakehammer reaction was ludicrous what the fuck am I even reading

[the worst]

hi tweety. need more pats?

[the worst]

*bat pats*

[the worst]

i was town

[the worst]

gg tho morning. I was thinking about yeeting worstie to the sun at one point.

you would, scumbag.

[the worst]

*FRANTIC BAT PATS*

[the worst]

i was town

worstie just admitted he switched to scum halfway thru. yeet this to the sun :3

lol
i would be very happy if i had been scum this game

[the worst]

MT you are an absolute delight, and i'm really sorry that i'm pretty sure we rolled opposite alignments this time.
see you in the postgame<3

[the worst]

no redactions from scum pt, but a caveat

i strongly stand by a lot of the points i made in the penultimate game phase (in fact, they were even coming from a cheeky informed scumfuck ). but a word of warning, please please please please be very careful with treating self-meta as alignment indicative. i don't think that anyone (INCLUDING krazy, for the record) actually went out of their way to nuke the integrity of the gamestate via self meta in this game. it was just a very messy murky conversation where everybody had some version of "wroah i could never be scum because

x

", and krazy stepped too far across the line into dialogue which explicitly presented as though it was meant to be a trust tell.

my advice to anyone who feels like a gamestate is stagnant & their only way out is to self-meta into oblivion? take a step back, reread some old games / wiki theory or something, and try your hardest to think about the game in a new way. meta can be very powerful when used correctly, but it unambiguously detracts from the quality of a game. anecdotally i'd rather lose to good scum playing their heart out (even if they are meta-identifiable as scum, because they have a better scumgame than towngame) than win a game entirely on the virtue of meta.

it's just something very different from the game of mafia - and sometimes it will help (i could link 10 examples), sometimes it will not help (e.g. this game) - it's always imo less satisfying than just playing your ass off and letting the best person win.

this is all me as a player btw i am not a mod on the mafia side of things.



ok off my high horse: all that aside, this was a really cool game. writing off the meta headache, i actually think this game was consistently well played from everything i saw. thank you to the town for a hell of a challenge. was a pleasure playing with you all, and i hope it's not the last time. ♥

thank you isis for modding. as always, the worldbuilding you put into mafia games is fabulous and adds an incredible amount of character.

[the worst]

I believe.

You won in my heart, Morning

hectic, this is actually too good. <3

[the worst]

how about the part where MT voted at EoD D2?

scum!MT knew that her chances of two townies ACTUALLY not logging in and not voting were slim. her last partner (and current deepwolf) were about to die. how else could she set herself up for endgame? clever bat.

[the worst]

Also how about when Krazy tries to randomly spare people Day 3?
Or when he just, didn't vote at EoD2

Pooky voted at the End of D2.

i don't know i'm just spoiled by knowing krazy is town

[the worst]

it's finally happened. i think we broke alisae.

[the worst]

that dead thread was a delight of a read, except i now i feel like a filthy sinner.

incidentally this is like the first time as a moderator I have been rooting for town, when Krazy trust told [and implied I was complicit!?!?!?!?!?] that flipped the switch and I just like am not able to flip back psychologically once worst is in the slot even though worst is awesome. I hope he understands.

i begrudgingly understand :< i think i did as much as i could but i was silently going for town too (even moreso while reading the dead thread)

Nearly 10% of the posts Pooky has ever made in the past 17 years are townposting in two months of play in Undertale C Open and then the town threw a bunch of hurt tags at him and now he's here in a dead PT

good post, and now i'm riddled with guilt.

thats like the best post I've ever read like ever.

we don't deserve Tweetie...

I believe.

objectively great chain of posts and now i'm even guiltier

also, real talk, when ducky was like, "this reminds me of 960 pooky" i thought "oh it ain't just pooky that reminds me of 960 alright" but i didn't believe in myself aaagh

god
dammit

i also had a theory why the ban made the slot more likely scum rather than town but it was pure oog angleshooting so i didn't want to bring it up :/ (also probably worng but wrong premises right conclusion etc etc)

thank you for not making this post, fr. not because of wincon stuff, it's just a convo which is too difficult to have midgame imo

reminder to myself:

If duckie ever uses (✿^‿^)

kill him with fire.

get me a pagetop, i'm making a (✿^‿^) appreciation page

interesting strat for the worst to commit to not reading the game. definitel left enough material to work with in notes in the scum PT, and krazy made a good effort, so assume the worst feels this is the best strat rather than pretending to do a blind read and dredging up old arguments

i mean my wincon was either to read up and go into SCUM KING mode and push townies, or try to land on the losing side of pooky/mt and hope that the other just fell on their sword.

getting pooky => mt was basically the easiest path to victory; failing that mt => pooky would've been deeply unpleasant (*silently cries over micro 960*) but was also probably the point where i'd need to commit to a very serious read & strategy.

sometimes it's just not worth powerwolfing, imo

for that specific method of communication, and that one only, I'm gonna say it's cheating not to do it if you think it will help your wincon.

great post. i try to psychically communicate with living players all the time.

[the worst]

that dead thread was a delight of a read, except i now i feel like a filthy sinner.

missed a chance to "i felt my sins crawling on my back" smh

[the worst]

i just want to be on the same side as you lovely people one of these dayssss

[the worst]

your assessment of me in micro 960 was on point, lol. especially wrt stress/taking on a challenge if it means i'm likely to win and stuff.

i do love being the villain, as long as i can be a fun villain? if that makes sense?

[the worst]

i always smile as i type my lies out, even as town.

[the worst]

i thought i lost that?

[the worst]

riiiight. i'm bad on the details.

[the worst]

oh yeah mini 2160 is like, an anomalous callback to my newbie days when i used to spurt my bleeding heart all over everything. it's rare i care that much about a game anymore.

[the worst]

if i get heated up, i try to remind myself that my

mortal enemies

and i will probably laugh about it post-game

[the worst]

but we'll be scum together next time

[the worst]

krazy played a very good game.

He played a very strong game, the way he went out eats me up inside.

[the worst]

It's just
Physically
Not
Possible

[the worst]

don't worry, the point made itself. i realised very quickly your slot wasn't on the table - the only reason i tried it was because it didn't feel like there was any reason i should actually know your slot was off the table, lol.
you were super obvtown.

[the worst]

definitely been in that head space before. i'm glad you're feeling like, aware of what you do/don't like in mafia and i hope you have fewer games you don't enjoy.