BooneyToonz XIV: A Little Boonie Told Me [END]

[Shoshin]

Hi, can anyone give me a quick summary of the game so far?

[Shoshin]

Is HUB scum?

[Shoshin]

Based on reading two pages of the game, I'd lynch them.

[Shoshin]

HUB voted town instead of scum & they appear to be anti-angleshoot, which is scummy in my book because angleshoot is one of town's strongest tools for identifying scum.

[Shoshin]

I'll be obvious town fairly quick, so don't worry too much about that.

[Shoshin]

I'd also argue that Nico was fairly obvious town before I replaced, so... I dunno. Can you assume I'm town for our discussion?

[Shoshin]

Why is HUB scummy to you?

[Shoshin]

BEF always looks scummy, so I probably wouldn't lynch that slot unless it was a clear scum-tell.

[Shoshin]

Hi Gamma, how are you? What're your reads this game?

[Shoshin]

Sure, I can do that.

HUB I think claims to be against angleshoots as all alignments. He's not revealing his main, but I

think

it's true for him.

Without specific meta evidence, I will stick with my belief that anti-angleshoot is a scum-tell.

[Shoshin]

No, it would be a scum-tell not to town read me.

[Shoshin]

Gamma & HBB are also town, which is nice.

[Shoshin]

Nico has a clear meta. This was the town meta. I don't want to go into this more at this time.

[Shoshin]

welcome shoshin!

Thank you. What're your reads?

[Shoshin]

Why is HUB in the middle, Ydrasse?

[Shoshin]

I said nothing about replacement or anything of the sort.

HUB has confirmed themselves as scum. They are very frustrated I replaced this potential mislynch.

[Shoshin]

I don't think I implied any sort of angleshoot... But even if I did, is there a rule against implying angleshoots?

[Shoshin]

Hey Gamma, can you explain why HUB is town? This player seems very upset that I replaced a potential mislynch. In my experience, that's a massive scum-tell.

[Shoshin]

HUB could be town, but the frustration they showed at my entrance to the game isn't ever how town feels when they see a potential mislynch become obvtown. The townies usually feel relief.

[Shoshin]

Angleshoot is used by good players. I learned it from NSG. Don't see how that's against the rules?

[Shoshin]

anyone who pushes back on you saying 2 posts with basically nothing in them was town meta looks good to me

What're your reads?

[Shoshin]

I'd consider HUB as town if they are someone who strongly dislikes playing with me based on prior history. But otherwise they're likely scum who isn't happy about losing the Nico mislynch they've been pushing since D1.

[Shoshin]

HUB also seems familiar with Nico's meta, making their push on Nico even scummier. Nico's an easy mislynch that scum love to take advantage of.

[Shoshin]

What's scummy about Ydrasse?

[Shoshin]

Gamma, Ydrasse, HBB, ET, and BEF feel town.

[Shoshin]

Interesting.

[Shoshin]

What makes you believe I'm scum, HUB?

[Shoshin]

Scum usually pocket Nico because her reads are typically bad, I wouldn't say she's particularly targeted for early game scum fades

This hasn't been my experience. It's usually been the best exact opposite (see Labyrinth, RC's other game I forgot the name of, Errant's game, etc.)

[Shoshin]

I guess I should also clarify that I didn't town read Nico for replacing out. I'm aware that Nico strongly prefers playing scum, and lack of interest in a game IS a minor town-tell for Nico. But that would apply to this game regardless whether Nico replaced out or not.

[Shoshin]

I also think Nico tends to offer more reads as scum on D1, whereas she NEVER offers reads as town on D1. This game was town Nico via posting.

And btw, this game isn't the only time I've replaced a slot that I town read based on only two posts. So this isn't reason to scum read me...

[Shoshin]

I'd also like to note that I fully intend to read this game in-depth tomorrow night when I have time, but for now, I wanted to get in the game as soon as possible instead of sitting on the sidelines until I read. I do this in every game I've ever replaced into as town, so that also isn't reason to scumread me.

HUB seems to know me, so it's weird that they'd suspect me for anything at this point.

[Shoshin]

HUB, what's your read on Bell? If you're town, and I'm willing I consider the possibility, Bell immediately crosses my mind as likely scum.

[Shoshin]

Also, HUB, I don't understand your reaction to my entrance when I'm clearly towning up a mislynch bait. Your emotion was precisely what I expect scum to feel as they watch their potential mislynch slip away. Am I someone you strongly dislike from past history?

[Shoshin]

What happened to Taylor?

[Shoshin]

Gypyx, what're your current reads?

[Shoshin]

HUB, why'd you think Vax was flipping town?

[Shoshin]

I guess this is where I'm at, from town to scum:

Sam
Gamma
HBB
ET

Golden
BEF
Ydrasse

Bell
Gypyx
Ari

I don't include HUB because they're either confirmed via role or scum. This slot solves itself before LYLO, so I bracket this for today.

[Shoshin]

This is based on reading D1 & everything after page 45.

[Shoshin]

I just realized I mixed up pelican with tsunami lol

VOTE: Tsunami Slayer

This post clears Sam.

[Shoshin]

Gypyx hasn't shown any sign of town. Their reads aren't great. They're a plausible team with all likely scum.

[Shoshin]

how does it clear sam?

mixing up player a with player b is... nai

Context.

[Shoshin]

I also disagree that mixing up a scum with likely town is NAI, but the broader point here is that the timing of this vote almost never comes from scum.

[Shoshin]

I don't see how this role knowledge means anything.

[Shoshin]

What're your reads, Shelly?

[Shoshin]

I think the weirdest thing I find about GX right now is how he has not reacted to this conversation between me and shelly pretty much at all, I kinda feel like he hasn't read or has only barely read like the last 6 pages, which while it is low information a lot of it was just directly about him which is just weird for him to not comment on

Not just the 6 pages. It feels disconnected from the whole game.

[Shoshin]

I could be wrong about Sam. I expect my reads overall to suck after taking long break from the game.

[Shoshin]

Hm. Shelly seems scummy. That means Shelly is town. Done. Sorted.

this is town and i reached the same conclusion (so both shelly/tay and tsunami are town)
gypyx is probably town as well
taly seems town
VOTE: samantha this slot is scumpinging me

Looking back, I agree with HBB that this raises concerns. Scum tend to over justify reads they know are wrong, and while the reasoning is weak, it's also over justification relative to the other reads.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Shoshin]

VOTE: HUB

[Shoshin]

What's scummy about naked votes? This is something I do as town.

[Shoshin]

I just feel like I have yet to see any sign of town Shoshin, you replaced in, did a catchup, then seemed to just drop out of the game. If you were town I feel like you'd have much more presence.

I've been letting the game breathe a bit so that other players post.

[Shoshin]

HUB, what games of mine are you familiar with? The idea that I spam post & don't naked vote are both wrong. Where's your meta on me coming from?

[Shoshin]

What're your town reads, HUB?

[Shoshin]

HUB, why do you keep saying that I lied about Nico's meta? I understand that you disagree, but why do you assume I'm lying rather than just wrong?

[Shoshin]

Why is GX town, HUB?

[Shoshin]

Golden, why'd you vote HUB?

[Shoshin]

I'd honestly entirely forgotten we got scum D1.

That's definitely a good jumping point!

How do you forget a scum lynch?

Has anyone in this game ever forgotten that they lynched scum? Can anyone point me to examples of town forgetting a scum lynch?

[Shoshin]

maybe ircher saw something i didn't see in her but idk!!!

Don't like the three exclamations here. Feels fake.

[Shoshin]

What felt off? What's improved?

[Shoshin]

They weren't lurking when you voted them. You've been lurking, though. And haven't expressed any reads.

[Shoshin]

You referred to scummy interactions, Golden. Can you point me to those?

[Shoshin]

i want a claim from ari and while he doesn't have that much play to look at the way this wagon has developed makes me believe it's a wagon on scum

What about the wagon development led to this belief? I don't understand at all what you're talking about?

[Shoshin]

What have I done that's scummy, Golden?

[Shoshin]

What are the specific behaviors in this game that make you think I'm scum? You don't need to explain why it's scummy, just the behaviors. I'd also like to know your reads in general, and I'd like to know how those reads change if you assume I'm town.

[Shoshin]

What did HUB do that's towny?

[Shoshin]

i want a claim from ari and while he doesn't have that much play to look at the way this wagon has developed makes me believe it's a wagon on scum

What about the wagon development led to this belief? I don't understand at all what you're talking about?

it was a counterwagon to hub that developed pretty quickly as hub seemed much townier
the ari wagon is, at least, town driven if hub is town like i think, and then like shade has been cast on the wagon but it hasn't been derailed

Ari is scum because HUB is town? That's your logic? Have you even looked at who drove the Ari wagon? I was one of the key votes that shifted pressure from HUB to Ari. Why don't you town read me for that?

[Shoshin]

I was one of the key votes that shifted pressure from HUB to Ari. Why don't you town read me for that?

I actually thought the way Ari implied every vote on his wagon was the same without calling out your naked vote in conjunction with your naked vote slightly increased the risk of s/s bussing. I don't think naked voting someone who is getting voted for pressure and to produce content makes you town, especially if Ari is town (as Gamma seems quite sure of at least)

I always naked vote...

[Shoshin]

From your perspective, HUB, my vote on Ari should confirm me as town if Ari flips scum. The momentum swung quite dramatically from you to Ari when I did that, and as scum I had no reason to do that at all.

[Shoshin]

Golden suspects me for dumb reasons, so it's just a matter of time until scum jump on me.

[Shoshin]

What's your latest take on the game, Sam?

[Shoshin]

You think I'm scum, Gamma?

[Shoshin]

Maybe we should lynch Gypyx?

[Shoshin]

Or Bell?

[Shoshin]

Golden, why is Gypyx town?

[Shoshin]

shoshin, why do you seem more passive than town!you in that mini I modded?

I was passive in that game until about 2 days before deadline. It was also a different set of circumstances -- in your game it was D1 & I had to actively steer town away from a clear mislynch onto the obvious scum, whereas this game was a replacement on D2 & I'm not entirely sure what's happening in this game yet.

[Shoshin]

TGP is scummy. no real presence anyhow. i struggle to remember anything TGP has done.

I'm pretty sure TGP's town.

[Shoshin]

Sam concerns me.

[Shoshin]

Sam doesn't seem to be scumhunting.

Bell could be scum, who knows?

[Shoshin]

Let's lynch Sam?

[Shoshin]

Is there any reason to town read Sam?

[Shoshin]

I just realized I mixed up pelican with tsunami lol

VOTE: Tsunami Slayer

One could argue this post is mildly townie, more for the mixup than the vote

Were you thinking this before I pointed it out earlier?

[Shoshin]

I did like her leantown on me in 1296 but beyond that she could use like a readslist and some more content so a wagon there isn't unreasonable

If you're town, scum are a lot more likely to read you as town than townies, because your level of engagement is the sort of thing that's very difficult for a mafioso to fake a scumread on.

[Shoshin]

I first mentioned this, HUB. I think it over-complicates the alignment -- Sam's playing overall more like scum than anyone else in the game.

[Shoshin]

Sam's ignored most of the substantive discussion this game & focused entirely on inactive slots who are likely town (me, & Ari).

[Shoshin]

Having now looked at ydra town and ydra scum, the thing I noticed is just NAI

What's the thing? I'd like to hear more about Ydrasse. This player is difficult to sort without more testing, for sure.

[Shoshin]

i like this plist and my mafia motivation has went overall down across site which isn’t an alignment thing but in general i find it a lot harder to create content as scum and generally just... don’t want to

This is believable.

[Shoshin]

Very disappointing play lately from HBB.

[Shoshin]

She was the only counterwagon to Vax.

There was no counter to Vax. Scum likely bussed, as they tend to do when their partner is as scummy as Vax was.

[Shoshin]

HBB, have you ever done an elitell as town?

[Shoshin]

Gamma, why are you so sure that Ari is town?

[Shoshin]

Can you explain this in more depth?

[Shoshin]

just read my posts and then come forth with any questions you still have
I don't wanna retread ground I don't have to

You haven't said that much... just some meta stuff that you don't flesh out much. Can you point to specific tonal stuff from Ari that you like? I don't understand the strong town read & I'd like to so that I can focus on other players.

[Shoshin]

sam is a lame wagon, i agree with HBB, scum probably arent *that disorganised* that the main wagon + CW of d1 are s/s

There was no counter on D1. Scum bus partners on D1 a lot, as you just witnessed in your own game.

i would again, vote in ari (i love ellitells), TGP (who has provided NOTHING contentwise)

bell i would like to talk to you in realtime

Why vote TGP? Is there something different in this game than his play in your game?

Why do you distrust Gamma's strong town read on Ari? Do you have a lot of experience with reading Ari?

[Shoshin]

just read my posts and then come forth with any questions you still have
I don't wanna retread ground I don't have to

do you think shoshin forgets the last time you talked about this point as town?

I don't like this post at all.

[Shoshin]

I'm gonna go through Vax's wagon so you can see there was no counter.

We start with a situation where Sam has five votes and Vax gas one. Gamma voting Vax, nobody else, but not because Gamma suspects Vax.

This is what happens next:

VOTE: tsunami
-tay

This vote starts the wagon.

Why are you voting the slot that’s getting replaced :/

Gamma defends Vax, even though Gamma's voting Vax. Weird.

I have no scumreads or townreads right now.

"I didn't read the thread"

I think pelican's posts have been consistently illogical, regardless of which head is doing the posting. I was being really charitable before because of their role claim (like thinking taly really didn't understand a joke), but there's a tipping point. That said, it still doesn't make sense for us to vote for them today.

VOTE: NicoRobin

Sam votes Nico. Sam doesn't comment on anything substantive regarding Vax. Silence on important topics is a massive scum-tell.

What is tsunami at right now?

:/
VOTE: tsunami

These are excellent posts from Bell, and it's why I initially town read this slot. Bell could be scum who saw the writing on the wall, but more likely, this was town who wanted to kill scum.

i’m too drunk for this today sorrrrryyyyyy

I don't like this. This is the point in the game where scum struggle most to post without telling, as it's a key turning point on a partner'a wagon.

Stop fucking pocketing me scum Noraa
-Shelly phoneposting

That replace out was AI but for integrity reasons I shall ignore it but that slot is scum. Casing will happen when I get home
-Shelly

This slot is likely town.

VOTE: Tsunami Slayer

Unfortunate, but yeah, very likely scum

This could be a bus. It's the fourth vote, a common spot for scum to hide. It's still townish overall but less so than Bell's vote.

99% sure bell / tsunami aren't S/S

More content from bell would be appreciated

Bad posting. It's fine to call out negative associatives, but not in the abstract. Scum tend to talk this way when they don't want to commit on a major wagon. Town usually will take a side when noting this sort of associative tell.

Currently, I am voting Sam to show ET that I am willing to work with them so they can stop wasting time on me.

wat

is there some way to interpret this that doesn't involve you still not reading the thread

Bad posting.

nicorobin nicorobin nicorobin

Bad posting.

Hi, Samantha. Nicorobin to you too.

first, thanks for the laugh

second, the reason why I didn't talk about being voted, and have no intention to beyond this, is because that's purely a distraction from my point of view (though I did answer questions because people kept asking stuff)

third, I read this game with noraa in it viewtopic.php?f=11&t=84118 where she was mafia and her tone is a lot different here

but you people know each other a lot better than I do, so if you think she's mafia then I'm fine with that; it'd be super cool if nico and thegoldenparadox would post more before the day is over though

Defending Vax's slot in a slimy way that scum often do. Shelly, please compare this with the way Taylor defended Herta in your game. It's almost the exact same move, a ploy that scum often use while bussing.

nope yeah VOTE: tsunami is scum and that replace out was :^/

This post is townish. Yes, it could be a bus, but feels like typical Golden town voting behavior.

my samantha vote is doing fuck all right now but it's definitely my strongest read like. what is the point of shading pelican and saying that voting them doesn't make sense and going onto a wagon that is objectively worse (pelican had votes, nico had none and nico's presence is negative) for like... what? what is the goal here?

voting vax right now feels rude until they get to post a little. as a treat

Bad posting if Sam's town. Again, Sam was a major wagon before Vax. Vax was the CW to Sam, not the other way around.

also i think that tsunami/vax + samantha are viable together due to samantha's lukewarm reaction to the wagon on tsunami

This clears Ydrasse entirely if Sam's scum, though. Locktown.

VOTE: BEF

enjoy the fresh air vax, taylor will probably torment you though
-shelly

Why? I don't like this, especially if Sam flips scum. It looks quite suspect that you vote the next easiest wagon outside of Vax/Sam. What's the purpose of this vote?

my samantha vote is doing fuck all right now but it's definitely my strongest read like. what is the point of shading pelican and saying that voting them doesn't make sense and going onto a wagon that is objectively worse (pelican had votes, nico had none and nico's presence is negative) for like... what? what is the goal here?

uh the goal was to encourage the people voting for pelican to not vote for them; you answered your own question there

and the only player we literally can't read at all is nico, because they've said effectively nothing and posted only twice

even if you don't want to lynch nico, it's concerning that you are against pressuring a player that is deliberately not participating

Awful posting from Sam, again. Sam still isn't scumhunting in a meaningful way.

I find it interesting that Sam copied a scum ploy used by Taylor in another game. I wouldn't be surprised if they coordinates that together in a PM. It's unlikely, but wouldn't surprise at all.

VOTE: BEF

enjoy the fresh air vax, taylor will probably torment you though
-shelly

bad shelly!
*smacks shelly on the nose (gently) with a newspaper*
that is a very bad shelly!

VOTE: vaxkiller

-tay if you couldnt deduce that this wasnt shelly

It's nice to come back but I just don't like how they're playing up their vote while throwing out a feeler for CW on BEF.

if gamma is mafia then what do you think the odds are of nico not-so-randomly voting them at the start as also-mafia?

Why is Sam talking about this irrelevant stuff? The focus is so wrong & unnatural.

i'm staying on vax for obvious reasons
i know game integrity and all so even outside of the replace out noraa's play scum spewed that slot

Golden stays strong on this wagon. I town read this.

I'm feeling reasonably confident on Gamma town, why is he at the bottom of your list Catavi Terror?

I strangely town read this post. HUB's towniest post in the game.

Pretty sure I’m still voting there. I don’t mind it as long as it’s well defined.

It's too late to leave the wagon at this point anyway, not without attracting a lot of suspicion. No town points for Gamma, unfortunately.

Spoiler:

I had a dream that BrassHerald came in as a backup mod and modconfirmed two people fighting. I think I have ptsd

that slot's focus on nico seems to be scum finding something to push

I wanted your opinion since you seem to think gamma is mafia, which would have implications outside of gamma, and you didn't give it. Like I said, I don't care about actually lynching nico (just as I didn't care about BEF) and just wanted them to post. If I wanted to push something I'd be pushing a person who could actually get vote majority.

Again, the focus isn't towny. Some hypothetical comments but still no scumhunting. Compare Nico's honesty ("no reads") to Sam doing nothing while pretending otherwise.

I had a dream that BrassHerald came in as a backup mod and modconfirmed two people fighting. I think I have ptsd

Scummy dream ngl

VOTE: samantha

/s

Okay. Remember when I said Gypyx was scummy? It's because of this weird post, followed by this:

Yeah i'll just go back to BEF, not convinced by the current wagons

VOTE: BrightEyedFish

Gypyx looking for an actual CW to Vax or Sam.

VOTE: Samantha

I don't see scum motivation in golden paradoxes one track mind to lynch a replacement. Weird an annoying maybe, but it feels town to me.

Votes Sam but pushes for lynching Golden. I think this clears Golden. It's just not how scum distance from a partner.

More on this later.

[Shoshin]

I mean she was casing to refute the idea that Sam was unlikely to be scum based on being a counter-wagon to Vax, so yes it was written from the POV that Sam was likely to be scum... I mean that's how cases work? Some people don't like cases but idk, I feel like we're not on the same wavelength atm

That wasn't a case, to be clear.

[Shoshin]

Bell/Sam seems plausible as scum.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Sam

[Shoshin]

It could even be HBB/Bell/Sam.

[Shoshin]

Gamma/Ari is in the back of my mind as a possibility as well. But it seems unlikely.

[Shoshin]

BEF's level of effort & confidence is strongly town indicative. It's a tough read because they're always a scummy townie, but that's just more reason to be careful about getting baited.

[Shoshin]

What's an enchantress?

[Shoshin]

Why would you use your role on Pelican instead of checking alignment of an inactive player. This seems completely inconsistent with your behavior so far.

[Shoshin]

You're a parallel universe, Sam?

[Shoshin]

What are you, then?

[Shoshin]

I don't see why you would target Pelican. That seems like a lie.

[Shoshin]

What's your role reflavored as?

[Shoshin]

Will this game have 1 variant or 2 based on size?

[Shoshin]

HBB's recent posting is scum gibberish.

[Shoshin]

HBB seems to know more about what Vax & scum was thinking than town would. If Sam's town, HBB's likely scum.

[Shoshin]

the other possibility being maybe like GX was scum ascetic and just changed his claim to commuter because it would get him towncred from shelly but that still seems oddly convoluted to me

I see no reason to believe Gypyx isn't just a scum parallel universe, as I've suggested for a while. Behavior-wise, Gypyx is one of the scummiest players.

[Shoshin]

Soooooo Ari went back to elitelling (posting in other games but not this one) hard as soon as pressure was lifted off him. That isn't a good sign either.

HBB'a logic that scum tried to push a Sam CW doesn't square with a world where Ari is scum.

[Shoshin]

Vaxkiller replaced them, he spewed scum.
Some people pushed him, some bussed, some attempted to counterwagon Samantha.

HBB has been pushing this Sam CW argument for a while... Didn't realize this until now. The CW argument also doesn't square with HUB as scum, which is something that HBB was pushing earlier. The whole of HBB's scumhunting lacks internal consistency (a massive scum-tell).

[Shoshin]

On the other hand, there's the fact that Vax voted Sam instead of BEF. This would suggest BEF as scum if Sam's town & scum were actually trying to get a CW going instead of just confusing things.

[Shoshin]

I've read the pages. I asked you for reads a while ago, Sam. You've been playing mafia for years, right? How come you don't have reads this far into the game?

[Shoshin]

HBB seems to know more about what Vax & scum was thinking than town would. If Sam's town, HBB's likely scum.

I had a though similar to this but instead of HBB, it was irt HUB.

Explain more. What specific thought & why?

[Shoshin]

Golden, where are you? The day is nearing its end, & I'd like to have a conversation with you about the game. What are your current reads?

[Shoshin]

you actually asked me twice and I ignored the second because it was redundant, but it's easy to forget I guess when you don't actually ask questions with the purpose of knowing something

I don't know what this means. You ignored my request for reads because you think my question wasn't genuine?

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Gamma

Okay, this is scum.

[Shoshin]

BEF, I understand what you're saying about HUB but I don't think it's the same as what I'm saying about HBB. HBB is forcing the idea that scum tried to build a CW when there's no evidence of a coordinated effort to lynch Sam -- even Vax barely pushes or cases Sam. The idea that scum bussed Vax, on the other hand, just makes a lot of sense. It doesn't require a scum perspective because it's a natural towny thought to have.

[Shoshin]

BEF, what're your reads at the moment?

[Shoshin]

Why is Gamma town?

[Shoshin]

Why is HBB so town to you?

[Shoshin]

You don't believe Sam's claim? They're the only claimed boon bank role.

[Shoshin]

Why aren't I town when my reads most closely resemble yours (pretty sure I'm the only person who suggested Gypyx was scum other than you now)?

[Shoshin]

Why is Gamma town?

Maybe its all the positive vibes coming from that slot towards me

I have also noticed Gamma's post regarding me could be interpreted as an attempt to pocket me but I am actively ignoring any paranoia I could have there.

I've been calling you town since I joined the game. Why don't you feel the same about me?

[Shoshin]

Can anyone articulate a town read on Gamma that doesn't come from a "he's been positive to me" (i.e. pocketing) perspective?

[Shoshin]

I'll offer a few reasons to vote Gamma:

1. His vote for Vax wasn't based on scumreading Vax. He even attacked players for voting Vax prior to replacement, which didn't make any sense at all.

2. Gamma's vote was stuck on Vax on D1. This explains why scum felt unable to shift votes in a coordinated way onto a CW - they had someone voting Vax already who couldn't justify leaving the wagon without appearing scummy.

3. Pelican kill comes from Gamma more than anyone else, because Gamma has a lot of experience with Titus & doesn't want to deal with that meta experience coming into play. From a scum POV, Gamma more than anyone wants Pelican out of the game.

4. Gamma's reads don't make any sense. Why he town read Ari? Unclear. Why he town read BEF? Unclear. His recent vote on me is particularly bad because (a) I'm just starting to get in the game more, which is a massive town tell, not a scum tell; (b) Gamma has enough prior experience with me to know that I ask a lot of questions as town, so calling these questions performative doesn't fit at all. Gamma alos knows better than to just lynch me at this point without giving me a chance to find the scum. It just doesn't fit at all.

[Shoshin]

HBB, if you assume I'm town, what are the possible scum teams at this point?

[Shoshin]

Shelly, HUB, and Gamma are the three players who most know my meta in this game. These are the players who shouldn't be pushing me at all today, not before at least seeing flips. BoP is a lot more effective to read me than this "performative question" point. How is that even a thing for Gamma to push? It's just opportunism based on a terrible vote from Sam.

[Shoshin]

Gypyx, do you have any thoughts other than more stuff about why you're town?

[Shoshin]

Gypyx, how do you feel about voting Gamma?

[Shoshin]

BEF's level of effort & confidence is strongly town indicative. It's a tough read because they're always a scummy townie,

but that's just more reason to be careful about getting baited.

Are you sure they're not just scum. Because they seem like scum to me.
Their play around Tsunami was susp asf.
Their current play sucks if they're town and have you seen their reads list. What about their analysis or thoughts seems like effort to you?
This is what I mean when I say I think you're working backwards, your read of BEF isn't just outside of consensus it reads like bullshit you've conjured up out of thin air to justify an informed perspective.
You even seem to be projecting by throwing the same accusation at HBB when he at least has put some level of evidence on the table that makes some sense.

What does the bolded even mean?

No, I'm not sure they aren't scum. There's some evidence they're scum, including the fact that Vax voted Sam over BEF as a potential CW.

I'm skeptical about the idea that Vax was actually trying to build a CW on a townie, or that they made any distinction between BEF or Sam.

BEF's effort is higher than I've seen in numerous other town games they've played, & their reads makes sense when you understand BEF's way of thinking. Like, town reading players who defend you when you're under a lot of pressure makes a lot of sense from town. What don't you understand from BEF's perspective? Is there something specific that you find scummy?

The bolded point above means this: town BEF is mislynch bait , similar to a player like, say, SirCake. These players are scummy-appearing townies, so you need to be careful about lynching them. I make it a point to identify easy mislynch bait in my games & to be very cautious about letting them get lynched unless I'm very confident they're scum.

The idea that I'm informed is laughable. I'm throwing out a lot of theories because I'm quite uncertain about the direction I want to go. I haven't played this past year, other than a game I just finished, so I still don't have the same level of confidence as I used to. I've gone back-and-forth on a lot of things this game, so I don't see how you can argue that I'm working backwards.

What's your take on my Gamma push? (Note: Gamma's been defending BEF as well, and BEF considers Gamma his top townread).

[Shoshin]

HUB, you should work with me. If you are unsure if my alignment, why not just assume I'm town for today? If you're town, then us working together is going to give us best shot of lynching scum today.

[Shoshin]

I do believe sam's claim and tbh I think she's strongly town for it

The claim is believable, but I'm unsure what it means about alignment at this time. I don't think roles ever indicate alignment in any particular direction, especially when we don't know the setup yet.

[Shoshin]

Scum obviously knew there was commuting in the game. They have a role that allows them to kill commuters, or Sam's scum. It's either/or.

[Shoshin]

Is there any reason to believe boon bank role is town? From what I know about Flavor, he likes to give scum room to try unorthodox strategies, so I don't see why he wouldn't give scum Sam's role. It gives scum a lot flexibility, allowing a roleblock or a protection on partner or self. It also fits the game's theme in some respects -- a scum who creates parallel universes. It's about 50/50, I think.

Sam's role not working introduces chaos & WIFOM that scum traffic in. It's precisely how I'd expect scum to claim the role. And if Sam commuted, she'd know that nobody could prove her claim wrong. It's a WIFOM paradise for scum, which is precisely what Flavor loves as scum. So it just makes sense that our mod gives this role to scum.

[Shoshin]

1 is fair, but 2 is conjecture that relies on too many assumptions about gamestate. 3 I... don't get at all? Unless you can show a game where Titus really nailed Gamma or something. 4 I subjectively disagree with; he townreads Ari because of meta BS and is making actually a similar argument about Ari that you're making about BEF in terms of being fadebaity. I also am not sure I buy the idea that gamma would 'know better than to just lynch [you]'... I'm pretty sure Gamma does whatever the hell Gamma feels like doing as either alignment lol

The 2nd point explains one of this game's mysteries very well. Why wasn't there a CW on D1? You need to explain this in a way that makes sense if you want to find scum.

Titus suspected Gamma through most of D1, while drawing on meta for her read. I think scum Gamma, more than anyone else, would have felt a lot of pressure from Titus, and he would have felt it difficult to tip toe around this. Pelican made this game 100x harder for scum Gamma to play. I don't see Pelican making this game much harder for anyone else. The kill simply makes sense coming from Gamma.

I played a lot of games with Gamma. Gamma has mislynched me before. I think he would know better than to vote me for asking questions. It's like the defining feature of my play.

[Shoshin]

For Sam to be scum, Sam would have to have either:
-bluffed, which would maybe require a motion detector or something for scum, to *know* exactly who pelican targeted
OR
-targeted the scum nk with a commute (which makes no sense so we can dismiss)

No, no. Open your imagination a bit. Scum Sam could have targeted another townie without our knowledge, attempting to roleblock, and because Sam becomes commuter as a result, town can't track Sam. Pelican's role seems like the ONLY counter for catching Sam in a lie, so it makes sense to have town Pelican's role with scum enchantress

[Shoshin]

Why wasn't there a CW on D1? You need to explain this in a way that makes sense if you want to find scum.

vax's predecessor got angle-shot and vax himself refused to claim for literally no reason

the slot gave scum nothing to work with to deflect the wagon

I think better scum could have easily saved Vax. A lot of towniws were against lynching Vax at first (Pelican, Ircher, and assuming you're town, you). Gypyx didn't want to lynch Vax. There was lots of opportunity, yet scum did nothing. This tells me that scum felt stuck voting Vax. Gamma fits this profile the best.

[Shoshin]

Let's say Shelly/Gypyx/Sam are town. We both want to include Golden as town. I think Ydrasse/HBB are likely town. I think Bell/BEF are probably town. This leaves who in the poe? Gamma, & Ari. It's a simple solve that makes a lot of sense when you think about it more.

If Sam's actually town enchantress, though, then scum must have a role that kills commuters. I guess I'll just claim to clarify why. I'm also a town parallel universe. This is part of why I suspected Gypyx earlier. Nico didn't commute last night but I will definitely be commuting the rest of this game.

That's three commuters, plus a role that allows for two more town commuters. That's five players that scum can't kill. Five. This doesn't seem plausible.

[Shoshin]

I also received information last night from someone. I guess that's like a messenger or something. I've ignored it for now. But the fact I received this should prove Nico didn't use role, which itself should prove I'm town.

[Shoshin]

Imagine five town commuters. The game ends in a town win or a draw 100% of the time, as long as town don't lynch the commuters. This seems like an unfair challenge for scum. How do scum win this? They have to convince town to lynch the commuters. I guess that's plausible but it just seems like this isn't the type of play that Flavor would like -- he's not trying to force scum to play just one strategy, unless I'm wrong about him?

[Shoshin]

I don't mind dumping Ari, if only so he can focus on classes and get better grades lol

also him hard ditching the thread as soon as pressure was off is weak AF

hmm so we're commuter fiesta this game

Lynch Gamma first because regardless Ari's flip, Gamma's likely scum. If Ari flips town, we still need to lynch Gamma.

[Shoshin]

Scum either kill the commuters via role, or Sam's scum, or Gypyx is scum. That's my take.

Shelly's town. I don't think scum bussed that hard for no reason.

[Shoshin]

Behavior-wise, Gypyx/Sam are two of the scummiest players in the game. If I had to chart a path to victory for town, it involves lynching Gamma. If Gamma's town, we assume Ari as town & lynch one of Gypyx/Sam. If Gamma's scum, we lynch Ari.

[Shoshin]

If another commuter dies at night, we assume Gypyx/Sam are town. I don't think this will happen, though it might if Gamma/Ari are in fact scum -- they will kill me probably.

[Shoshin]

I don't care to describe my message at this time. Do you think messenger is town or scum?

[Shoshin]

If you trust I'm town, HUB, maybe you can trust my reads more? I know it's been a year but my first game back, I caught the whole scum team on D1. So I dunno, I still think my reads are worth giving some weight, even of you don't understand or follow my logic.

[Shoshin]

Yep. Me receiving a message is Nico's gift to us all.

[Shoshin]

My message indicated that someone is town. Should I believe this? I dunno. Why message Nico? That's a curious question.

[Shoshin]

I think you're ignoring the possibility that Sam is scum who didn't target Pelican at all.

[Shoshin]

Anyway, I'm very confident on Gamma flipping scum, regardless of Sam/Ari/BEF alignment. Please trust this & take another look at Gamma's posting.

[Shoshin]

i have no clue what the fuck to think about samantha anymore because like, why pelican of all people that doesn't make sense to me but neither does this game having that many commuters

Why Pelican, my exact question... Sam's a mystery.

Please take a closer look at Gamma. I'm very confident about this & I'm rarely wrong when this confident, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[Shoshin]

What's WIM?

[Shoshin]

Yes I'm town. This is far beyond what I'd ever do as scum.

[Shoshin]

Shelly, look at the way Gamma's defending Ari. This alone should make you think twice about lynching Ari before lynching Gamma. If Ari's scum, it points strongly to Gamma as his partner. If Ari's town, it points strongly to Gamma having inside knowledge, as literally nobody but Gamma is confident about town Ari. Gamma's likely scum either way. But in the unlikely event that Gamma's town, it's likely he's right about Ari, as Gamma's meta experience would come into play quite strongly, so it's better to go for Gamma first. Is there some specific reason you want Ari over Gamma? Why is Ari more likely to flip scum?

[Shoshin]

BEF, you're disappointing me. Why aren't you sheeping Gamma in Ari? If Gamma's town, surely you would trust his read on Ari?

[Shoshin]

I understand you're worried about self-preservation, but if you vote for Gamma, I promise you will never be lynched while I'm alive. You stand a better shot of living with me than Gamma, as I'll actually go to bat for you. It's very rare that someone I defend gets lynched. Actually, never.

[Shoshin]

i don't know if you've explained this before, but gamma was the first vote on tsunami and never moved, despite having other susses; do you think it was just a bus that got out of control?

Gamma attacked Taylor for voting Tsunami while Gamma was also voting them. So it's fairly clear that while Gamma had his vote on Vax but didn't support the wagon. He was ready to flip his vote if another wagon gained enough steam, but he couldn't get Vax unsuspiciously until there was a viable CW. No viable CW ever happened, so Gamma just passively allowed Vax to die

[Shoshin]

BEF, it's much easier as scum to defend someone you know is town than it is to justify changing your vote from someone you know is scum to someone you know is town. These things aren't comparable.

As for why I don't trust your read on Gamma, it's because I'm strongly scumreading Gamma & my reads are highly accurate relative to yours (and probably most players in this game, no offense to anyone).

[Shoshin]

Also, BEF, I don't think Gamma defended you that boldly at all.

[Shoshin]

Most people didn't see it like I did but I was 100% sold on Vax with that scum slip I have already mentioned.

I wasn't in this game at that time, but I've played games with town you mislynching while I literally carried the town to victory, so I dunno what to tell you. I was on an alt so you won't remember this.

[Shoshin]

Haha I will consider revealing this if BEF votes Gamma.

[Shoshin]

Most people didn't see it like I did but I was 100% sold on Vax with that scum slip I have already mentioned.

I wasn't in this game at that time, but I've played games with town you mislynching while I literally carried the town to victory, so I dunno what to tell you. I was on an alt so you won't remember this.

I am pretty sure I have never had a perfect town game with only scum fades. Or at least not in recent memory.

My most recently completed town game is a perfect game, for reference.

[Shoshin]

I was killed because I derailed popular wagon on town, led lynch on scum, and correctly read other scum as scum. Townies expressly followed my reads on subsequent days to lynch the last scum.

[Shoshin]

Golden was in that game, & it's the reason he scumread me here. He thinks (or thought) my play here was underwhelming compared with that game.

[Shoshin]

there's a moment in gamma's iso where he's asking why people are voting a slot that was repping out but then he sticks right back on vax acting scummy.

like, i guess the way i'm reading it is that gamma just wanted people to have a /reason/ for people to vote vax.

What specific post do you think is towny from Gamma?

[Shoshin]

shoshin wants gamma
BEF defends gamma

what if I think this might be t/t/t because it feels like y'all are being stubborn/insistent to an extent where I don't really expect this from scum

BEF's just pocketed.

[Shoshin]

shoshin can you give me the gist of the ~case~ on gamma, not just how gamestate-wise gamma fits as scum here?

I don't know what you mean by "gamestate."

Let's start with who the town are. You're town. I'm town. I also read Golden, HBB, Bell, Ydrasse, BEF, and HUB as town. The poe leaves Gamma/Ari/Gypyx/Sam.

I'm happy to clarify why these players are town if you don't understand.

Gypyx/Sam are scummy behavior-wise, but I'm bracketing this today. If you assume they're town because of role, then you need to look at who's left. I'd rather leave them alive for now while we collect more information about the setup. If scum are able to kill commuters, that lends more credence to all of commuter claims being town. If scum can't kill commuters, then we need to look closer at these players. For today, I'm bracketing.

Gamma & Ari don't have anything towny about them. Ari isn't actively scummy, just unengaged. The interesting point, though, is that Gamma has come out defending Ari like he knows Ari's alignment. It's almost mason-tell level if you assume they're town. Gamma's reasoning doesn't square with the boldness & confidence of Gamma's read. This is the first thing that concerned me about Gamma.

If you assume Gamma's town, how do you explain his behavior? The early vote on Tsunami looks like an inspired read, but the rest of his play around Vax felt hollow. He's a townie who doesn't care too much about what happens, just letting others control the game. But then he suddenly thinks Ari is so town that now he cares a lot & begs people to trust his Ari read. This highlights for me the strength of Gamma's read on Ari. It's out of character for him, so if Gamma's town, it's worth sheeping this read. I strongly believe in sheeping my teammates when they're this confident about a read. If Gamma's town, you also have to believe that he misreads me as scum based in behaviors I do in every game. I'm not sure how to explain it. You also have to believe Gamma is okay with mislynching me without any caution despite his past experiences with mislynching me, which strains credulity. But let's say he doesn't have any regrets or human emotions when it comes to killing me, despite knowing I'm a town asset. Okay.

Compare this to a scum profile. Gamma votes Tsunami early on based on bullshit reasons to create some distancing. Scum don't expect this wagon to take off the way it did, or for Tsunami to implode the way they did. Lots of players would say Nora is strong scum who is unlikely to get lynched D1, for example. So Gamma tries some early distancing. When the Tsunami wagon takes off, he keeps his vote on his partner (doesn't want to look suspicious so he's hedging) but attacks YOU for voting Tsunami. Your reasoning was really good, but he gaslights and tries to pretend the only reasons are angleshoot. He can't take his vote off Vax anymore but he certainly doesn't drive the wagon. If there had been a viable CW, he'd jump on that. But none materializes. So the he kills Titus, who was suspecting Gamma most of D1 and was probably making life very exhausting and difficult for scum Gamma. Then D2. He's just blah blah blah, nothing happening, very underwhelming play, letting town kill themselves as scum like to do. He takes the opportunity to pocket townies where he can -- BEF for example. Then he gets the opportunity to build a wagon on biggest town threat (me) and immediately jumps on it. Can't leave me alive, I don't lose games when scum do that. His reasoning is clear bullshit to anyone who knows me, but nobody knows me well here except HUB, who joins me in Gamma. I dunno how to explain this better. Gamma immediately flipped his read on Sam after the claim, which doesn't feel natural to me. There wasn't any questioning or concern. Gamma isn't sorting me in good faith. Gamma's the most likely to kill Pelican. What more can I say?

Town Gamma profile doesn't square up. It doesn't fit, and if it does, we definitely shouldn't lynch Ari. Scum Gamma is consistent with Gamma pocketing Ari or defending a partner. Scum feel a lot more pressure to defend partners when they lose a teammate on D1. Scum Gamma feels this pressure, clearly. That's my take.

[Shoshin]

Gamma is a much higher percentage, BEF. Why don't you understand this?

[Shoshin]

I'm concerned that Golden's ignoring this game.

[Shoshin]

How many votes now? It'd be nice to get a claim, though I doubt it makes any difference here.

[Shoshin]

UNVOTE:

Let's wait for Gamma to post. No rushing.

[Shoshin]

I also want to hear from Golden before we end the day.

[Shoshin]

You can unvote as long as you promise to vote again before deadline.

[Shoshin]

I'll be here at deadline to vote.

[Shoshin]

So... shoshin, you're a commuter too, but you still managed to receive a message / whatever?

Nico didn't commute.

[Shoshin]

I'm kinda fascinated by the ease of the gamma wagon but dunno what it means yet lol

I'm more worried about the absence of certain players who are just allowing me to dictate today's lynch despite supposedly scum reading me.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Gyp

??? there is no reason to be voting a commuter as the game stands

VOTE: brighteyedfish

btw I will be asleep well before deadline but will try to check back before then

Why not Gamma?

[Shoshin]

Nice town!

HUB was Krazy, interesting. Didn't expect, but it makes sense.