Silent Star 3: Royalty

[skitter30]

heya all!

i shall be catching up shortly

@hectic: regular vla on fridays and saturdays

[skitter30]

i'm getting townvibes from mt and hopkirk on page1

and scumvibes from trq

[skitter30]

it was a reference to newbie 1992 post 14, mostly for skitter's benefit. also all of town has that role, so

hmmmm ?

[skitter30]

isis is townish for her i think

[skitter30]

ydrasse you're supposed to make a joke or personable comment this is

mafia

there are

rules

lol

[skitter30]

Pooky you haven't obvtowned yet. You've obvtowned in all the other games I've played with you. Why aren't you obvtowning?

i actually think he's been a bit +town for him
maybe not like obvtown but getting some townpings

[skitter30]

VOTE: tgp

[skitter30]

i think it's a +townie sign, yeah

[skitter30]

Heeeeyyy what? Pooky being adorable is a constant. he has AI traits that he has mentioned (and one i think I may have picked up), but cuteness isn't one of them

what did u pick up on?

[skitter30]

oh i thought you had picked up on something in *this* game :/

[skitter30]

hopkirk is town imo

(and i'd rank him above 'eh' on the cuteness scale, but don't tell him i said that :p)

[skitter30]

infinity is town too !

i like the tgp votes tho!

[skitter30]

I like my vote where it is honestly

y

[skitter30]

Lol I forgot where my vote was

VOTE: taylor

oh nm lol

[skitter30]

ok y are u voting taylor?

[skitter30]

Maybe I’m seeing the same things hopkirk is? I also think taylor is relatively likely to have engaged with me on game-relevant things as town

tbh taylor is a big load of 'hmmm they even posted?' to me
i have exactly zero thoughts on them

[skitter30]

i actually read the first 12.8 pages of deathcurse! and had an obvtown read on pooky. and thought isis was scum, whoops

[skitter30]

I don't want to scumread Jessie

it's okay not to, i'm town.

hello!

[skitter30]

i don't know where it was but you ???? the post about my first post which was a reference to my newbie game in which i referenced saudade - thought you might appreciate it because you were in that game that's why i said it was for your benefit.

ah
and i shall endeavor to use jessie in the future

[skitter30]

@Flea, why do you want to be yeeted?

i'm pretty sure that was sarcasm / you weren't supposed to think that his true feelings of the game

i'm getting some scumvibes from gloria too

[skitter30]

VOTE: gloria

[skitter30]

I don't get why this is scummy for Gloria just seems like a lighthearted way to let Flea talk about the game

i mean it was a misunderstanding of flea's post at best but that's not why i'm voting, more for the fact that she started to get defensive when i started pushing her

[skitter30]

Tell me why am I scum here Skitter? ISO me in Death Curse.

if you'd like me to, i'll do that
(not promising to do that tonight tho)

[skitter30]

ok i concede that you apparently tend to misunderstand connotation when reading things over the forum, because i think you just did it again, and that it's probably nai
i still think you're being defensive tho ^

[skitter30]

hello pooky!

[skitter30]

hello skitter! i promise to not flail like an idiot this time!!

[skitter30]

VOTE: tgp

[skitter30]

but I think I’ve seen roughly this play pattern from her as scum.

i haven't

[skitter30]

the being chill, comfortable, meme-y, and non-awkward and non-stilted part

[skitter30]

she feels more: let's get down to business i need to pretend i look town
there

[skitter30]

Very few players can fake being natural.

[skitter30]

Y town on jesdie

Also check the ban thread

[skitter30]

i think it's noteworthy that you're placing so much emphasis Isis' ability to read you, which if true seems like a poor move if you're scum

i mean i think it points to him not being scum

[skitter30]

If infinity flips red here this might mean our entire townbloc is green

i was kinda thinking of that wrt ydrasse on that previous page

[skitter30]

Infinity feels wolfy here

shifting read on Isis due to pressure - feels like not a real read

i kinda disagree on this read; i think he's pretty townie imo

[skitter30]

ok when I said I had a mysterious townread on Ydrasse everyone was supposed to go "Isis you're so alluring and intriguing please shed enough mystique to show us" so that I get to talk about I wasn't supposed to get strangely townread with no curiousity what is this

i'm curious
i don't see much ai in anything she's said thus far

[skitter30]

Scum try to fabricate reads that make sense and have some logical basis to them. Failing that they occasionally give up and say they have gut reads. This post purports to be logical but retreats to gut. It mentions a feeling and tries to count out logic, but in the end the logic is flawed, but Ydrasse still hits send.
Posting with flawed logic is like the scariest thing ever as scum because the flaw might be some little scum claim thing.
Also generally scum like being right so the scum version of drafting this post would be something more like, "in spite of the post restriction I know this still applies".

i'm not sure i agree with the thought process behind, like, any of this

[skitter30]

The Skitter30/Gloria interactions tasted a bit weird.

hello

[skitter30]

I want a lot more from her.

i don't really enjoy/vibe super well with all the cutesy memey stuff that's been posted, and it makes it hard for me to interact with the game, esp. when there's like 20 pages of it
when there's more content and stuff that i wanna interact with i'll do more

[skitter30]

'I wonder if Skitter30 knew about the Taylor ban so quickly because partners'

i have the ban thread bookmarked
i'm not sure what you're trying to say wrt the gloria/me thing

[skitter30]

i'm not sure what the right words are, but the whole interaction felt kinda fake? like i don't understand hopkirk's reads but dunn doesn't go into that part and instead in that convo there's more 'meat' to the part where they're discussing hectic's modding history, if that makes sense

so like on both ends it felt weird

[skitter30]

i think there's one scum there, and it's honestly a weird enough interaction taht i could see svs
not sure i see tvt tho

[skitter30]

To me, dunn feels like a player who’s more comfortable with mechanics/fact-based things than describing reads, so I don’t think that’s super out of character? Tbf I can’t particularly read dunn, but the push felt like it was motivated by moving the game forward, and I got townvibes from hopkirk’s defense.

i'm not sure i agree with that assessment of dunn?
and i kinda wanna reserve judgement on hopkirk until i can talk to him about the me/gloria thing he's pushing, as i'm finding it to be a bit puzzling

[skitter30]

ok tbh i wasn't in or involved in the game you're referencing and i'm not super sure what point you're making wrt that game

what i was saying with isis and ydrasse is that in ydrasse's original post, i don't see her starting out with logic and then moving to gut; it looks entirely like a gut-based read to me
like i'm not sure that the analysis isis is tryign to make actually matches the post ydrasse made ...

[skitter30]

i've never played iwth him, idk, but what i've seen from him in the speakeasy, he does have a peculiar sense of humor
the way he then explained it seems kinda on-brand for his sense of humor; i don't think that was meant to be taken too seriously

gloria have you been in alts with me before / would you be surprised to learn that i think i know who you are?

[skitter30]

look at the bottom of the previous page .

[skitter30]

k

[skitter30]

I got burnt on this reasoning before in silent star 1 actually when reading lilith -- she was citing someone the way Pooky is citing Isis as a good player to read her, think.

she was citing me :p
and i was right except for the fact taht it was bastard and we didnt' know that

i feel p good in saying that scum!pooky doesn't enter this game this way with town!isis given their past history

[skitter30]

I like the couple of posts where ydrasse explained her scum self to me -- 363 especially. im a sucker for self meta and it felt like she was explaining something that made sense to her although i didnt quite understand

ehhhh i can see it i guess

isis/pooky you guys are good at reading her?

[skitter30]

You think scum Ydrasse?? ?

not necessarily, so much as the thought did cross my mind while i read the following post that if she's scum she's unhappy that there's so many people being townread for being lighthearted, as she puts it

i don't see it as saying much this early on though? in general i think that a lot of people here are probably capable of that + that sort of lightheartedness isn't going to do more than maybe give us like, the tiniest of townreads on a person for being a bit more carefree

~

You both light pushed each other then quickly backed off in an eh manner. I'll quote when I've read the next page.

as i continued to speak with her, i realized that what i took initially to be a deliberate attempt to misunderstand flea was more a function of how she processes things that are written in a forum (as she misunderstood the connotation of something that i wrote a few posts down too)
and that i was told by multiple people that being defensive wasn't ai for her
and the way she insisted i read her in death curse

+ this afternoon i realized i probably know who she is and none of that is ai for her if i'm right

Yeah you'e putting a whole lot of words in my mouth Skitter30. You're responding like I hard scumread you here Skitter30.

i mean, what word would you like me to use instead? i'm not really sure how you can extrapolate from what i've written that i think you hard scumread me just now
i do think that you thought that there's something going on btwn me/gloria, and i don't fully follow your reasoning, which is why i wanted to talk to u abt it

r u saying that u think me/gloria have partner equity?

Oh, nevermind the above post.

to clarify this particular bit was about your me/dunn speculation, not about me/gloria. idk what this post means in that context

It feels like you're pushing Skitter30 at me here while trying to stand back yourself Gloria. It feels more pushy than questiony.

ehhhhhh this is a stretch imo?

how are you reading me and gloria rn ?

[skitter30]

I don't think she makes me promise to be town to her if she is scum

i'm gonna be honest when i woke up this morning there were like 8 pages of meming and i skimmed a lot of it so i don't even remember that happening, or most of what she wrote
but u feel p confident on that ^?

[skitter30]

I'll be back in ~20 mins then can respond in real time to anything you wanted to discuss Skitter30.

cool
might have to bounce before u get back tho

[skitter30]

I take her at her word that these are real feelings she has.

fair enough!

i also don't have much experience with her, and her playstyle is not one i'm particularly good at reading

~

Really? That feels like a good angle for scum to fake tbh

honestly, i can see y mt liked that post - the thought itself isn't inherently townie, but the way she said it had a townie lack of inhibition / lack of self-consciousness / stream of conscious babble to it

~

You said I was ‘pushing’ it and made a lot of posts about it. I said I got very light pings. It sounded a lot like you were trying to make it look like I had a much stronger read than the ‘essentially null’ that I had.

tbf, it was not at all clear to me that you were saying you basically had an 'essentially' null read on me, i thought you were saying that i was lightly town and that you were then shading me / pushing me via tying me to gloria, which was rather convoluted and confusing, and why i said i wanted to take a bit to talk to u about it before i come to any conclusion because the things you were saying didn't make much sense together

Was me redacting that comment because you then said you thought I was being jokey there which is the opposite of the narrative I was considering a scum-Skitter30 attempting to create.

well the me/taylor thing i thought was a meme
the me/gloria thing i didn't (and still don't tbh) completely understand

and i don't love that you're still kinda pushing gloria for it? kinda feels like u've decided there's scum in the pair and once you tried pushing me you decided u didn't want to do that so moved on to gloria

~

actually if Gloria is who she might be I might be more scared of her because she's pocketed me in a previous life :3

indeed
but i'm also leaning town here

[skitter30]

i would like to assume your role in this exchange and you can assume skitter's (you: detective hopkirk! me: responding in real time to anything you want to discuss)

ngl i think this is funny

[skitter30]

jessie u gonna place a vote?

[skitter30]

i was objecting more to the 'logic becoming gut' stuff
upon seeing more of ydrasse's posting, i agree with the stream of consciousness bit

[skitter30]

i would like to pressure tgp more and i'm not sure i see what people are seeing gypyx

also i think hopkirk has gotten a bunch of townreads and i'm not really seeing it yet

[skitter30]

wait maybe i'm misremembering that game ... wasn't she town in that one?

[skitter30]

oh lol

weren't we convinced she was scum tho? i guess u got better at reading her in the intervening time?

[skitter30]

ah! indeed

[skitter30]

honestly, i have no idea, i'm kinda just along for the ride and waiting to see what new surprises come our way

i am kinda intersted in a the double elim mechanic for today, and the fact that all townies are vt is rather curious.

do u have any thoughts?

[skitter30]

(￣ヘ￣)Suspicious(￣ヘ￣)

Infinity 324
Gypyx

Pooky circling back to this, why is infinity all the way down here? I'm kinda townreading him

Also ur speculation seems really cool! But would the princess br aligned with town?

[skitter30]

Ok so is what he's done so far 'high effort' and 'solveyness' for him

[skitter30]

I'll be on tonight, i ended up having to go to the office today

[skitter30]

i thought so :C

It's the hopkirk im familar with from the past couple of his towngames

i'm not sure i really see it, and i don't really like his positioning around me and gloria yesterday

~

I think she would be.

I don't see Hectic making her an anti-town role but I could be wrong here :3

I did not like 377 from Infinity.

It feels like he is not happy about how fast the townblock has grown :3

well, per the op, all town players are vanilla, so i'm not sure how accurate your theory is, but i like the creativity!

i kinda vibe with what infinity said. or, more accurately, at that point in the game *i* did not feel like there was an overly large townbloc, but that's a vibe i get p often as town ( i sometimes just have games where i feel like i'm townreading waaaaaay too many people), so i can understand a town player feeling that way

also if he were scum with that complaint i imagine he would be trying harder to undermine said townbloc, which i didn't really see happen

[skitter30]

Yeah but why does scum!Infinity voice that unhappiness? surely it'd be leagues better to like, attack the townreads directly rather than just voice dissatisfaction with it

maybe he felt better to pump the brakes and express distrust rather than attack someone specifically?

I would've been way happier with him if he had actually pointed to someone being townread by everyone that seemed to him that they shouldn't be town-read rather than a general statement of dissatisfaction.

i kinda felt like the fact that he did not really follow that statement up with an attack on anyone was townie - it felt more like a transient thought that just popped into his head so he just said it instead of scum going otu of their way to cast doubt on a townbloc that nobody had formalized yet

[skitter30]

hm?

well you posted more in between, which made me change my mind

[skitter30]

skitter's reaction was, she doesn't even think Ydrasses is scum, but she cares a lot whether my point was stupid anyway.
VOTE: skitter

right, and complaining against an argument i dislike is scummy because ...
(or more accurately, is scummy for *me* because ...)

The discussion around the infinity comment made me realize shading a townblock for size without picking anyone can like, benefit scum without putting oneself in harm's way and that make sense

i dislike this

TGP's readslist makes no sense and what I remember of their posting doesn't make much sense, and on balance I lean towards it being a scummy thing I don't understand instead of a townie thing I don't understand. Apparently Dunnstral and skitter were my comrades in terms of voting their so when I don't have my fingers wrapped around it composition might be something to think about.
Jessie mostly hasn't towntold yet and has touched on a lot of topics where I'd expect her to have towntold. I think Infinity is the one with the sig where where posting long enough without towntelling is a scumtell. I'd sooner vote there than revote TGP at this point I think.
Dunnstral is mildly scummy but I've reached a point where I kind of treat him unfairly [well] in my games if he's not a 13/10 on lurking and scummy potshotting because he sometimes turns on midgame and has really good reads, and lots of times when you elim him for seeming scummy he's actually town, he just has that playstyle. I'm not gonna expect others to hold to that though.
Gypyx seems scummy for the way he was scrabbling with setup spec stuff it's a bit cognitive load scummy to count through the wifom of claiming hidden information so slowly. I don't have a lot from him yet though.

ok reading more i kinda dislike all of this ...
your reads are fluffy and you're using 'nuance' to hide the fact that you're not actually commiting to anything

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter

Skitter’s been bothering me and maybe if I vote with isis it’ll actually go somewhere

Why is 413 a townpost jessie?

go on

[skitter30]

because it shows that gypyx was like following from step to step and it asks a very good question for someone unaware of silent star: menagerie

i'm not sure this is 'town indicative' so much as 'asking a reasonable followup' indicative

VOTE: skitter

Skitter’s been bothering me and maybe if I vote with isis it’ll actually go somewhere

Why is 413 a townpost jessie?

Can you tell me why?

I guess it’s cause she hasn’t really done anything town.

it's ok, if you wait a bit more i will eventually become an un-limmable shining beacon of towniness, it sometimes just takes a bit more to kick in than other games

Isis looking at broad strokes instead of nitpicking and doing stream-of-consciousness are towntells for her from what I’ve seen

idk her meta well enough to know what she's likely to do as town but she hedged on like all but two of the reads she gave

pedit i think that hedging on like all of your reads is scummy

[skitter30]

tgp looks like a gypyx partner

[skitter30]

Perfect timing, do you want to explain how isis is “disguising” how she’s not committing to anything? Because that seems pretty apparent in her post.

or to clarify a bit more what i mean: when i'm scum i basically hedge on all my reads by giving a reason why it could go either way, it gives me room to change my trajectory as needed. and by having this stream of consciousness type 'nuance' it looks townie without actually committing to anything
and her post looks exactly like that

pedit int he like 8 reads she gave in those two posts she hedged on nearly all of them

[skitter30]

I finished catching up and I agree with TGP's defense of Gypyx not making enough sense, in a scummy way. I like Jessie's version a lot better.

I felt like they really wanted me to believe gypyx was town, what do you think?

this is a good way of saying it, yes

[skitter30]

Ok i'm here catchup time

did this, like, go anywhere?

why is dunn a leading wagon again?

[skitter30]

i still like my tgp vote

[skitter30]

and you
and her reasons for voting me are kinda bad

and holistically when i look at those two posts i see a lot of circuitious words that dont' lead to conclusions

[skitter30]

Without having read, let me guess: Is it the combo of the guy I suspected and the guy I voted who jumped on me?

hey that was a p good guess!

[skitter30]

pooky asks gypyx about a post > isis responds to pooky with a reference to silent star: menagerie > gypyx asks isis why she jumped to recruiting

maybe i'm just missing the whole thread of this convo but i'm not following your logic here

[skitter30]

i support and endorse the tgp wagon

[skitter30]

whooo if only magicking up votes was always that easy

jessie do u scumread tgp?

[skitter30]

was recruiting something that happened in menagerie?

[skitter30]

ya and it's also weird that that's like the one thing that he decided to engage with upon coming back to the thread?
like gypyx wasn't even under *that* much pressure at that point

[skitter30]

ok then i don't see why it's town indicative any more than asking a followup because he didn't know that recruiting was a mechanic in that game

[skitter30]

yes

i agonized about whether to recruit you for an hour before i asked hectic for a playerlist and found out you were not playing.

Also i just realized i think this was addressed to me

[skitter30]

like it felt like gypyx wasn't presenting a read to do so but hunting for people having information

Right, but i think its equally likely that he as either alignment would want to find out that info

I also think this convo is kinda going in circles at this point

Also do u have a read on me?

[skitter30]

Interesting, if anything i would expect an *anti* partner read with hopkirk

[skitter30]

i'm having a bad mental health day. i will try to be here later tonight but we will see

[skitter30]

i read it, but which part of it is tgp being voted for? i'm gonna go read that one scum game that tgp was in too with us to see if they're similar here to that.

also uh, ngl, i remember having gutpings on skitter for like, a very very faint sense that she was irritated when she didn't have to be but for the life of me i can't remember at what point during the game that was

Right, but i think its equally likely that he as either alignment would want to find out that info

I also think this convo is kinda going in circles at this point

i don't really understand what either you or pooky are saying here. i get that i repeat things and i am sorry for that, but like, if all of town is vanilla and has no information, why would someone actively hunting for people with information not be more likely to be towny?

sorry i didn't mean that in a pejorative way, more that i think we're going around in circles because idk what you're talking abt and i don't think you know what i'm talking about, and that we should maybe just move on altogether

[skitter30]

oh the ydrasse quote got quoted too - i'm not sure what hte bit abt me means

[skitter30]

It's such a lazy copypasta tell and all the times I've seen it used effectively it's been possible to point at a read that ought to be firm in that phase of game.

uhhhh most times i've seen it as a scumtell it's looked rather like that, on slots that scum want to keep open for an elim/miselim later

[skitter30]

isis i don't really like your push on me, it's shallow and it feels like you're pushing it because you want to almost, and not necessarily because you actually believe it

[skitter30]

I wonder if she was talking about this

ydrasse? maybe. i really don't like the cutesy memey stuff that expands beyond a like minimal rvs, i don't like scrolling through like 15 pages of meems to get to the content

[skitter30]

flea is town

[skitter30]

VOTE: thegoldenparadox

In fairness this is kinda sus in and of itself...

i voted because skitter encouraged me to and earlier in the game she had called me out for not voting and i wanted to see how she'd react. i still think thegoldenparadox is one of the more likely people to be mafia right now, but when people are talking about hammering right now it seems

....

hello i still support and endorse the tgp wagon
i'm not sure what sort of reaction you were looking for from me? i called you out cuz i remembered someone saying you weren't voting earlier, and then i checked and you still weren't voting, and i was wondering if i could entice you to support the righteous and glorious tgp wagon, and then you did

[skitter30]

isis i don't really like your push on me, it's shallow and it feels like you're pushing it because you want to almost, and not necessarily because you actually believe it

Man you keep saying stuff wrt isis that’s like “I can see how this could appear true on the surface but...no”. I can’t tell whether it’s towny OMGUS bias or you’re just making up shit to throw back at her

it's an awful and shallow push and i think she should at best know better. more than that she just wants to say things and then not engage with me on it

idk what u mean by 'i can see how this could appear true on the surface but no' bit

pedit also gloria i'm now thinking tht my initial alt guess is incorrect, and i think you're someone else now

[skitter30]

like it seemed like gloria was saying i want to hammer to me, like encouraging you to put to e-1, and then saying that she would put to e-1 and you could hammer

i didn't get the vibe that we were imminently having hammer, but maybe that was an in-the-moment sort of thing

~

also infinity i get annoyed when people scumread me for dumb reasons. what does isis's push boil down to even? that she doesn't like my objection to her reasoning for her ydrasse read (which is nai for me) and my response to her push on me (which she declined to really engage with ...)? she's been voting me for the vast majority of the game, but isn't really trying to sort me

[skitter30]

i wasn't hoping as much as wondering, it is hard for me to tell how much skitter is considering my play in the past when interacting with me

i'm not super much, but i do sometimes get silent star 1 vibes from you

i'm townreading u btw also

did u unvote just cuz you're not ready for day to end yet? you do agree with tgp-scum tho, right?

[skitter30]

It’s like, it looks like you could get other people to believe that but don’t believe it yourself. Maybe it’s BoP. I just don’t see where you’re getting “isis doesn’t seem like she believes in it”

a) idk what the first sentence means / is referring to
b) i believe if she scumread me she'd be trying to interact with me and/or sort me, which isn't happening
c) similarly, what she originally called me out on (not liking what i said about her ydrasse read in that she thought i was being needlessly picky) is nai for me, but she failed to me pointing that out, which makes me feel like she's saying things just to say them and isn't trying to actually utilize what she's pinging me on to sort my alignment
d)

It's such a lazy copypasta tell and all the times I've seen it used effectively it's been possible to point at a read that ought to be firm in that phase of game.

this is overinflated rhetoric that goes against most of my experience
e) her whole post going from tgp and back to me in the same post looks like she's trying to look indicesive

[skitter30]

Can you explain how my reasons are better?

aren't your reasons 'you don't look like town yet'

idk it's bad but i get that a lot and doesn't bother me as much

[skitter30]

it's like annoying but part and parcel of getting bop'd, being me, etc
if i got annoyed each time that happened i'd never get anywhere

but isis's reasons are silly and fake looking and i don't feel like she wants or is trying to sort me

[skitter30]

I think 575 was like, “I know you wanted to engage with me, I have to go now here’s when I can do it in real time”. I think hopkirk saw skitter posting and didn’t want her to be confused when he left for a bit.

this is what i thought 575 was ^

[skitter30]

ok i strongly disagree with u then cuz i think her push on me is really shallow

and are u basically saying that you think i may be scum trying to see if i can throw something semi-plausible at isis to see if i can get something to stick that people might believe?

[skitter30]

Ok but the things I’ve been pushing/questioning you on are similar to why isis is voting you.

and no, not really either

[skitter30]

right

and if i'm scum i'm pickign this fight with isis because ...
like do u think that scum!me thinks i'm gonna get much traction on isis here?

[skitter30]

i mean i think her push on *me* is superficial and like she isn't really trying to analyze *my* motivations, and that she's just like lolvoting me for meh reasons that she didn't really think much abt and that she isn't engaging me on

[skitter30]

I acknowledge i see that post but i will pick up tomorrow ^

[skitter30]

Ok but the things I’ve been pushing/questioning you on are similar to why isis is voting you.

and no, not really either

And I’m pretty sure this is true? Like I questioned you about the isis post on ydrasse, isis brought that up as a reason to SR you. I didn’t like that you called isis out for hedging on the slots she did, neither did she. They’re at least similar reasons and I want to know what about them is different to you.

idk how to describe it better but i feel like you're actually trying to sort me - you're utilizing those questions and complaints wrt my play to try to figure out my alignment
isis i feel like is just nitpicking and trying to find reasons to push me

[skitter30]

Skitter has strong arguments but doesn’t ~feel~ right

it's ok, u will get there eventually

~

okay i've accepted i'm going to be limmed and i ask that y'all give me a chance to look at my reads before hammering me

here is what you should take from my townflip

gypyx is always town here
dunn is probably scum
i'll work on providing a few more reads but i'm ridiculously confident in town gypyx and somewhat confident in scum dunn and i ask that in the second part of d1 upon my flip you get dunn)

i think this is remarkably out of character for town!you

~

What if Dunnstral is holding the lamp and TGP's silly charade is to keep his friend Dunnstral safe?

ehhhhh not with the existing associatives between the two of them. i would be p shocked if dunn/tgp were a thing, even in a lampbearer universe

~

VOTE: MT not really a fan of you dancing around this wagon.

they're fine imo

~

UNVOTE:
VOTE: skitter

hello
i was p sure u were leading up to that

[skitter30]

No, I actually think I maybe am. This is what I expect town to do here. I seriously can’t even wrap my brain around this.

oh nm
you're my first guess, i'm like 95% positive

[skitter30]

did u unvote just cuz you're not ready for day to end yet? you do agree with tgp-scum tho, right?

yes

k what else do u wanna talk about?

[skitter30]

@mod prod gypyx plz?

[skitter30]

well if it has i literally did't notice, so there's that!

[skitter30]

more than that she just wants to say things and then not engage with me on it

skitter where have I done this
you're not characterizing me accurately and it seems discredity and you're at best playing town more survivalistically than you should be playing the alignment because you're being really dismissive

i feel like ur talking at me and not to me
both times that you voted me / stated that you scumread me

and when i responded to the first time you voted me you didn't really engage with me

how is this not accurate?

i'm baffled where you're getting survivalistic from
i can maybe see dismissive but i don't get where you're coming from here

[skitter30]

Ok, I did want to talk about this cause I’m still not sure on MT. Yes town re-evaluates based on new information, but there didn’t really seem to be any new information that MT was taking into account. Yes town can go back and ISO someone, but it didn’t seem particularly motivated to me. Scum opportunism seemed like a likely reason to re-evaluate there. Yeah personality could be another reason, but my gut is still kinda bothered by it.

you realize this is basically what i'm saying wrt isis, right?

~

I don't always play patty cake with people I scumread, but "A readslist with more than X nullreads is always scum setting up audibles and never a townie who doesn't have people's alignments in her role PM" is such a dumb thing like no I don't exactly want to use it as a jumping off point.

If you want to talk about something you can talk about why you think voting two different people in one post is scummy. That's like, decent. What makes you read that as feigned indecision versus indecision, is there some marker to it making you sure you're not confbiasing?

a) i was talking about the first time you voted me, ty
b) i very rarely see town making a poitn of explaining why they have a bunch of nullreads.
c) i don't think i've *ever* seen town vote two people in one post the way you did it. i've seen it happen in a stream-of-conscious type of post where they change their mind midway through, but that's not what your post was. your post was more premeditated than that, and it looked show-y and like you were trying to look like you had more indecision than you actually did.

[skitter30]

Dismissive is inherently survivalistic, it's a really safe way to interact.
If you roll scum, you want to reduce your "surface area" as much as possible.
That's how I think about stuffs

no. i strongly disagree

[skitter30]

The way she says it makes me really want to believe her.

ftr she says that sort of thing as scum too
but i think she's engaged in a way unlikely to come from scum!her

[skitter30]

I feel like there is a significant element of playstyle difference here no matter both of your alignments and it’s kind of difficult to parse out.

right the think is that from what i know of isis, i don't think there *should* be such a massive clash here

pedit i meant that she went and randomly out of nowhere made a post about how indecisive she was on like 4 people

[skitter30]

will be back in like 15

[skitter30]

I didn't like any of Skitter30's posting on this page and am especially curious on this. I don't get pushing this association.

i mean the thought crossed my mind so i shared it
idk if i'd really call myself 'pushing that association'

This, but the biggest part is I interpreted 'talk' from Skitter30 as 'talk in real time'

oh to clarify that i didn't necessarily mean in real time, i meant more just like interacting with you more in a general sense. it didn't have to be in real time

~

also i appreciate all the internet hugs everyone <3

~

(Dunn/Skitter30/Gypyx/Jessie) is the people I don't have good vibes on.
It's also to some extent concerning overlapping with people not approaching the game in a certain way.

*squints sideways* that is a very interesting group you have there

~

A Jester role? o.O

I genuinely don't think it's likely, is there any more thought behind this or just suspicion?

Two Jesters... I mean from what I've heard of hectic games I'd probably expect everyone to be in that position if that's the case lol

it explains both of their behaviours for the whole game i think

and also like double elimination day and they are playing this way

this is an interesting thought ... and i believe that you probably believe it and that you just thought of it prior to making that series of posts
but i don't think ti's super likely - tgp probalby doesn't defend gypyx that hard, he probably gets on wagon waaaaaaaaay earlier and gypyx just self hammers

(i might have to bounce again for a few minutes shortly)

[skitter30]

pooky please unvote just believe in me for a second

I think Jessie is town. This isn’t something scum usually say.

ya i think the thought was wrong but the approach probably + town

[skitter30]

If it's this post, I discuss roughly four players, and I waffle on one of them (infinity, being noncommital about how much the townblock thing should matter)

If you're referring to the post where Hopkirk specifically asked me about players I hadn't commented on specifically because they're the ones I'm not sure about then "randomly out of nowhere" is beyond bogus for describing why they weren't certain reads.

no the indecisive post was the second one
this may sound dumb but i literally didn't notice/realize /put together until exactly now that you were responding to a direct question that hopkirk asked you abt those slots
so, uh, sorry. i retract that accusation because uh i was being oblivious

i still don't like the post that you quoted above wherein you started by voting tgp and switched to me later

[skitter30]

I think Jester paranoia in general is something more likely to come from scum than town

this feels kinda scummy

tbf i think taht sk paranoia is much, much more likely to come from scum than town, and maybe he was extrapolating to 3p in general

[skitter30]

Skitter’s posts make my stomach wriggle and squirm and do somersaults. From past experience, this correlates with a high likelihood that she is a member of the mafia.

i have no idea what this means!
and as far as i know you don't *have* any prior experience with me being a member of the mafia

[skitter30]

infinity, you're town, right? can i just sheep you? VOTE: skitter

hm. still 1000% confident that gypyx is town, but losing confidence in dunnscum. i was going to locktown jessie and then i saw the whole jester thing and now i'm just confused. i'm

vt

, so i have no idea what she's trying to do there.

hello i take issue with your vote and find your progression off of dunn to be rather scummy

[skitter30]

How convenient. What happened to your confident Dunn scumread, now you’re suddenly convinced on Skitter? Do you really have a scumread on her because it sounds like a really lazy vote. I really want to vote TGP now. These recent posts of theirs are pinging my scumdar off the freaking charts. This reads like they’re throwing their vote where ever they see consensus.

this ^

[skitter30]

I think this could be biiiig. what makes you say this? I am really sorry if you already said and i just haven't read it

i didn't say it - i am unable to say it at this time because of [redacted]

[skitter30]

i'm townreading the most: mt, jessie, flea, infinity
next tier town reads: ydrasse, pooky, gloria (tbf gloria is like somewhere in between this tier and the tier above it)
null: dunn, gypyx
scumlean: hopkirk, isis
scum: tgp

assorted thoughts on assorted players:

tgp's vote on me, coupled with the loss of their dunn scumread, is p gross and survivalistic imo. their content is not good, and they are reacting to this wagon on them in a way that i think is incongruent with how town!them would

gypyx ... does anyone have experience with him? cuz he's basically prodging and i wanna know if that's ai for him or not

flea is a shining beacon of wholesomeness and towniness

infinity is just obvtown

i think jessie's freakout wrt the jester thing is incredibly unlikely to come from scum, even if i disagree with her thought process

isis i still think her push on me is kinda fake

pedit fair enough but that's not something i can easily argue with u abt so i'm just gonna shrug and accept that you're not reading me right

[skitter30]

to reword: it's not the freakout about the jester itself, so much as how she went about it - it was very clearly a real thought that entered her head that she was very concerned about and i ... just don't see scum reacting that way to that thought

[skitter30]

yeah i don't want to play around a jester that may or may not exist anyways ...
i don't think it's super likely, but if we're wrong and *they are a jester* and *voting him out loses the game* i'm just gonna chalk the loss up to 'unknowable setup design' over playing around the possibility that voting out someone i think is scum is gonna make me lose

[skitter30]

i don't know how to explain it better. it didn't look like it came from scum to me

[skitter30]

gloria can i perhaps interest u in voting tgp ?

[skitter30]

That would put them at E-1 correct?

ah i didn't realize this would be the e-1 vote

[skitter30]

i'm sorry i don't understand why everyone thinks i've lost my dunn scumread they're still a scumlean

the issue is less: 'what happened to your dunn scumread'
and more: 'where did your skitter scumread come from' and 'my did that scumread on her come at a very convenient time'

[skitter30]

Do u think it's odd in an associative sort of way? I.e. what do u think is odd abt it?

[skitter30]

busy weekend, prob won't be around again till late tomorrow night

[skitter30]

I feel like you and Isis' feud has just not been very AI for me, but i feel bad i'm sort of glazing over it. It kinda just seems like you guys talk past each other at this point. "It feels like you aren't actually responding to me", "You're talking at me not to me", etc. etc. if it becomes necessary i will review but rn i put my faith in my beloved (´･ω･`)♡

maybe we're just super talking past each other ? but i really didn't like the way she voted me and (didn't) try to sort me :/

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: I'm getting the feeling I get when I have a wrong scumread

I looked over skitter’s ISO trying to case her, and all the reasons I was going to give felt like a stretch. That’s why I said this. I’m not feeling great today, and I really don’t have the energy to towncase TGP much less try to start another wagon. So I have no idea what to do. I still think skitter is slightly more likely to flip scum than TGP, but given that skitter is currently being nommed for paragon I guess TGP is a better elim. If a better wagon pops up I’ll vote there, but I’m probably going to save my energy for the second half of the day to re-evaluate some of the slots I haven’t focused on a ton: {hopkirk, dunn, pooky, ydrasse, MT}

oh no i hope you feel better soon!

[skitter30]

In a way I think of you as a strong player who could be infiltrator of the townbloc Infinity >_<

wut no, they're the towniest person in this game and tbqh i would be shocked if he were scum

[skitter30]

ehhhhhh i guess drunk!isis is probably town but i'm not happy about it

[skitter30]

what on earth is this dunn wagon
anyone else think it's odd how cw's to tgp keep springing up ?

[skitter30]

tgp's switching back to dunn when my wagon disappeared and dunn's wagon started to become a thing is super icky

[skitter30]

@Pooky, should I switch to Dunn? @Isis? @Skitter?

no, we should be voting tgp

[skitter30]

And i'm completely missing Gloria's point about Dunn townreading Pooky and pooky's point about Dunn townreading Golden

ya i'm not following it either

[skitter30]

yay progress

[skitter30]

idk. that group comprises a lot of where my efforts are focusing rn

[skitter30]

Doesn’t it bother you that everyone’s scumpool is the less active players?

a bit, yeah. but at the same time i feel p strongly taht tgp is scum, and the gamestate seems to be pointing in that diretion too, so i feel p comfortable at the very elast in that read. if i am wrong i shall reevaluate

[skitter30]

idk. that group comprises a lot of where my efforts are focusing rn

Hopkirk and tgp are pretty keen to get me out instead of tgp

Just saying

tbf if that group comprises most of the scum you probably aren't, yeah

[skitter30]

In sober-form I don't see myself voting out Dunnstral with skitter alive, especially with skitter backing off of me once she can tell I am pop-ular, and Dunnstral being pretty brazen.

Pooky did you push Dunnstral because he's the scummiest person in the game, or because you thought I'd like it?

VOTE: isis

[skitter30]

In sober-form I don't see myself voting out Dunnstral with skitter alive, especially with skitter backing off of me once she can tell I am pop-ular, and Dunnstral being pretty brazen.

Pooky did you push Dunnstral because he's the scummiest person in the game, or because you thought I'd like it?

Well the scum being outside of those 3: Dunn, Gypyx, Hopkirk looks a lot more likely now because TGP townlocked Gypyx.

Sorry @TGP, I wanted Dunn over you. :/

i really don't get the dunn thing; i just don't see why you're scumreading him
i wanna vote isis rn but i would also vote hopkirk

[skitter30]

because i didn't 'back off of her once i could she was pop-ular', and i object that she's ascribing that reasoning to my unvote because it did not, in fact, happen

i don't particularly think that dunn is town but i also dont' really agree with your reasoning for scum!dunn

[skitter30]

He isn’t solvey and sorting players like he usually does as town

sorry is this about dunn or hopkirk? cuz i thought dunn at first and i would in no way agree with this assessment of dunn at all ^

[skitter30]

Even if you don’t like it, I don’t see how it’s scummy?

Because I don’t think he’s town because he reminds me if a game where he played similar to this as scum and he doesn’t sound like he usually does as town.

because i feel like she's trying to find reasons to vote me that are weak and silly
i still feel like she isn't engaging with me despite that

i've seen dunn play like this as both alignments so i'm kinda meh on that argument

[skitter30]

hopkirk i am contemplating voting for u, btw when u get back

[skitter30]

I think it's weird that Dunn would respond to my conspiracy theory argument that he/tgp are red/red scum theater with "ok flip TGP first" if he thought TGP was red.

because TGP flipping red doesn't exactly help him rebutt that argument,

the way "flip TGP first" would make sense as a response to me is if Red!Dunn was annoyed at being caught for wrong reasons and wanted to prove red/red scumtheater theory is stupid by flipping TGP!Green.

i've fairly often seen people respond to the accusation that they're scum with player A respond 'ok then let's flip player A' when they're also scumreading player A

[skitter30]

He isn’t solvey and sorting players like he usually does as town

sorry is this about dunn or hopkirk? cuz i thought dunn at first and i would in no way agree with this assessment of dunn at all ^

I don’t know why, every towngame I ‘ve read of his, he has done more than he is here. He’s only given one townread so far: Flea and two maybe three scumreads: TGP, and now Pooky. And even that post he made about launching players due to their post count. he can’t bother to make actual reads or what?

At any rate Isis is a terrible vote. I strongly tr her pre-flip and it’s actually even stronger post-flip.

uh i've seen several towngames of his where he's done *less* than this soooooooo

i'm really not vibing isis-town and i really hate that she's like perpetually ignoring me
maybe i'm being petty but i feel like she would actually, like, try to engage me here as town?

the one thing that's kinda maybe making me doubt this is that she kinda played like this (i.e. badly) in a marathon last night and was town but i'm not sure how much credence to give to marathon games

~

i disagree with infinity's pooky take but he's still town

[skitter30]

I actually think I’ve seen dunn do more in scumganes than town games generally. I don’t think lurking is scummy at all for him.

ehhhhhh i'd say it's p much nai for him and more indicative of how into a game he is, because i've seen the lurking from both alignments, and i've seen the tryharding from boht alignments

[skitter30]

why would a CW even form if he's same alignment as tgp

that's kinda the point ...

[skitter30]

I know nothing about silent star except something weird happens.

like, you know this, and you asked me about the setups earlier, but still you're saying 'can't possibly think of why thegoldenparadox might think there is the possibility of mechanical guilties!' it just seems like it doesn't really add up to me

tbh in retrospect i'm not sure that tgp remembered that this game was announced at the beginning to be all vanilla

[skitter30]

and?
like what's the point of this post even

was trying to see if u were gonna interact with me abt it
and that's kinda where i'm winding up so i'm gonna do it

VOTE: hopkirk

[skitter30]

What I'm challenging is the previous games had room for shenanigans. This one doesn't seem to.

up until now i was kinda thinking you were just unknowledgeable about the prior games but it's been explained to u a few times now how the game kinda like ~changes~ in the middle and it feels like you're just trying not to understand at this point

the natural ~changing~ moment in this game is after the second launch, which hasn't happened yet, so asserting that 'this one doesn't seem to' is premature

[skitter30]

i mean i read the last what 20 pages again there and nothing changed for me tbh. Dunn/Skitter30 are way below everyone else

i lost a quote from Skitter30 earlier there where i was gonna say something like they felt like they were really positioning themselves for post flip when they did some shading of Isis pre flip

- which did get followed up with an isis vote- but i lost that somewhere and who cares if i quote it or not tbh you get the point

VOTE: Dunn I don't really care between Dunn/Skitter30 right now, my current POE is small

i strongly disagree with this take, ty
and kinda the whole post actually

[skitter30]

is it because my magic presence disappeared

prolly

[skitter30]

mental health vla, maybe i'll be around later

[skitter30]

did i miss anything other than us trying (and failing) to vote out the mod?
i think ti's time for us to start working on wagons. i am interested in neither dunn nor pooky atm

[skitter30]

did i miss anything other than us trying (and failing) to vote out the mod?
i think ti's time for us to start working on wagons. i am interested in neither dunn nor pooky atm

Did you find any Dunn games that you can link to where he’s playing similarly to here? Although I did like his most recents posts. Can you lay out your case on Hopkirk?

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81560
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=79344
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=80162

i hate hopkirk's me/gloria progression from way back when
and his current dunn/me take
and honestly a large part of it is pov tbh

this is where i'm at:

townreading: gloria, jessie, infinity, flea
lesser level townread: pooky, dunn, mt, ydrasse

i'm townreading way too many people and am kinda fine voting anybody that i'm not (i.e. hopkirk/gypyx). i'm also fine voting isis but i imagine that that's not gonna be going anywhere just now
i don't know how to resolve the too many townreads

and i'm sorry for my absence, i'm not super vibing this one and i would like to get back into it
is there anything anybody would like to talk to me abt?

pedit stop that isn't helpful
i don't think we should vote out either of u

[skitter30]

Who is the other? any reasoning at all? vibe check fail? just don't like them?

the other is hopkirk. like the calling people scummy thing felt maybe relevant to me, the way pooky was pushing gypyx felt off, didn't like the way the game diversion happened, but all of that i have commented along the way so it feels strange to me that you're like, oh, why? when i voted when push to vote and that's all there, i guess

also, i quite like pooky. asking me that feels ... but eh

can we do hopkirk ?

[skitter30]

i'm aware i'm not hammered btw, i'm just surprised i'm in a game full of people i've played with a lot recently who seem to have... 0 ability to read me

and there's nothing i like about skitter still VOTE: skitter30 or dunn. but nobody seems to care w/e

happy to see more hopkirk votes
and this is a bad reaction to that wagon

[skitter30]

i think he's trying super hard to solve the game, to prevent it from stalling, to getitn gpeople to work together (even in 1658 you see that, he's trying to explain his pov so that he can come to some sort of consensus with other people)

he's just posting the right thinigs at the right time imo. i can pull up some good posts if u like

and like i kinda majorly empathize with 1943 as i feel v similar

[skitter30]

sorry, i'm not sure what you're referring to

[skitter30]

sorry, i'm not sure what you're referring to

like the, 'i think we are talking past eachother' bit or when it felt like infinity was like, mediating here:

I’m pretty sure this is T/T

i'm asking if that seems towny to you? because both of those seemed - to me

right i was like 92% sure i actually saw that but couldn't find it when you asked so wasn't sure. yeah that too, i agree

[skitter30]

right i was like 92% sure i actually saw that but couldn't find it when you asked so wasn't sure. yeah that too, i agree

i guess i don't have enough of a mental sample to weigh the mediation stuff. like i know for the communication things if it was the other way, like infinity rewording something gloria had said in an attempt to understand that is more likely to come from town, but infinity rewording infinity idk and the i think this is t/t i think kinda not alignment indicative but i did appreciate infinity trying to explain things to me earlier just the probability stuff and the readslist feel so much like things i do as mafia to me

so i've never seen his scumgame but like ... it just feels like a super town-oriented appraoch to the thread to me (this and everything that i listed above ^)

[skitter30]

i'm not sure what you're asking with the readslist
and why did you unvote?

[skitter30]

i'm not sure what you're asking with the readslist
and why did you unvote?

i unvoted because it feels like there is a split that i think would have overlap if the people involved were all town. like i'm pretty confident on town!dunnstral, and pooky is hardpushing dunnstral, and you and infinity are listing hopkirk as the main mafia to each of you, and all three of you have made it clear gypyx is your fault back, like there is a weird convergence on gypyx and no crossing otherwise?

i'm not sure i'm following ur logic sorry

[skitter30]

bleh i'm here
i'm really sorry, i'm just not into this one so much and every time i try to post my mind goes blank

[skitter30]

¶

Votecount 2.0.6

[3] skitter30:

Hopkirk, Ydrasse, Infinity 324

[2] Hopkirk:

skitter30, Isis

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Dunnstral

[6] Not Voting:

Flea The Magician, Gloria Cleary, Morning Tweet, PookyTheMagicalBear, Gypyx, team rocket queen

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to launch. If there is no majority by the deadline, plurality will decide.

The deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-07 15:06:18).

Joint Mod ISO

i've also read ... not much of the recent pages, sorry :/

if this is where we're at i'm staying on hopkirk for obvious reasons
why am i the leading wagon? is it cuz i'm lurking or are people actually scumreading me?
isis why are you voting hopkirk?
dunn y r u on a vanity wagon?

[skitter30]

I have people I want to elim

, but everyone's like "nah Pooky those people are town" so now I'm sitting here and they want to elim Skitter/Hopkirk and I do not like either of those elims and feel they are town. So I'm not sure what to do here.

ok who are those people?

[skitter30]

Who is scum besides dunn?

me? i'm p sure i haven't been calling dunn scum

[skitter30]

yeah and i feel like i'm contributing to all of this ... i dont' even know where to vote rn

[skitter30]

fuck it i'm gonna try this VOTE: ydrasse

[skitter30]

jessie is town
that is one of the things i'm super confident on

[skitter30]

bleh ydrasse was actually kinda townie upon responding to that burgdeoning wagon
back to hopkirk we go

VOTE: hopkirk

[skitter30]

honestly this gamestate is so bizarre that my answer is: absolutely no idea

[skitter30]

Those sound kinda anti-associative to me tbh

[skitter30]

I think we should concentrate on finding *a scum* before focusing on their partners imo

[skitter30]

hello! apparently we can post!

[skitter30]

hello pooky!

[skitter30]

great meme dunn!

[skitter30]

Skitter I’m mad I ever unvoted you

[skitter30]

man i love people talking abt my scumgame

[skitter30]

man i love people talking abt my scumgame

i would've expected you to not take the easy way out skitts :/

disappointed

[skitter30]

Awwww

[skitter30]

Thanks hectic!
Sorry for kinda fading out there, as i mentioned in the scum pt i have a strong aversion to these sorts of setups, and its hard for me to be motivated

[skitter30]

Yep sorry hopkirk <3
I felt super bad for pushing you, and i think theres like multiple pages on the scum pt with all of us saying the same thing

You were spot on and super townie, and in a normal game you never get limmed there

[skitter30]

Also agreed! Pl was fantastic! And so was town!

[skitter30]

No redactions from me

[skitter30]

Isis you were fantastic

[skitter30]

Yeah this was lost basically around the time hopkirk starting obvtowning eod2. There wasnt loads we could do at that point honestly