Mini Normal 2177 | Town Win

[Zurel]

Hello, everyone. This is my first game out of newbie. I heard it's hell out here.

VOTE: Fuzzylogic

[Zurel]

Hello, everyone. This is my first game out of newbie. I heard it's hell out here.

VOTE: Fuzzylogic

Whoever told you that is be shading us.

So, this is heaven?

*looks at Not_Mafia*

Yeah, I can totally see that.

[Zurel]

Hello, everyone. This is my first game out of newbie. I heard it's hell out here.

VOTE: Fuzzylogic

*waves*

Hey! Nice to see a familiar face among the unknown.

[Zurel]

VOTE: Geraint

May as well get this over with now

should I be on my own wagon too? I feel I should be...

anyways, it is the 12th today....

You have no wagon. But I'm sure one can be made if you ask nicely.

[Zurel]

i'm going to advocate hard for a nm policy today because their shit is objectively antitown and no one wants it

nm is also looking mildly scummy + i have a lot of townreads so nm is my vote today

Do you want NM out because they're antitown or because they're scummy? Make up your mind.

[Zurel]

. Hey Zurel... welcome to the real game. Glad to met you

Yes, thank you.

Disappointed I did not get Jester. I am usually the town elimination bait and can get myself killed without trying.

Oh, no. Why does this sound like Geraintm? How many people in this game are easy D1's lunches?

[Zurel]

i'm going to advocate hard for a nm policy today because their shit is objectively antitown and no one wants it

nm is also looking mildly scummy + i have a lot of townreads so nm is my vote today

Do you want NM out because they're antitown or because they're scummy? Make up your mind.

both, actually. they are antitown, and they're

mildly

scummy although it's not a hard read.

What exactly do you find mildly scummy about NM? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't antitown and scummy hard to tell apart when it comes to meme players like NM?

[Zurel]

anyways,
{geraint, noraa, tgp} are town

vote: herta

Why? (For both the town block and the vote)

[Zurel]

Don't know why Not Mafia is going elimination bait here. Not sure if he joking or trying pull off the I am too scummy to be scum gambit or maybe both. Maybe the best move is to eliminate someone else and have the cop investigate him tonight. Not sure if a NM elimination is the best move for the town but I willing to hear reasons why he is a good elimination for today.

Presumably you have never played with Not Mafia?

[Zurel]

Not Mafia is the lunchbait because they're antitown, according to Golden, and hard to read, according to Noraa. Although Golden added that NM was also slightly scummy and I'm still waiting on the explanation for that.

I had never played with NM. But I had read a game they played in and I agree with Taylor that they're easy target for the above excuse and therefore I'm against eliminating them Day 1. I don't know about Geraint, but if he's similar to NM, by the same logic I also am against eliminating him.

[Zurel]

It's incredibly coincidental that the person that they wanted to PL has become a SR for them. Although I may be looking too much into that

What is SR?

[Zurel]

It's incredibly coincidental that the person that they wanted to PL has become a SR for them. Although I may be looking too much into that

What is SR?

Oh sorry, I assume you're new? SR means scum read

Yes, fresh out of the newbie queue.

[Zurel]

It's incredibly coincidental that the person that they wanted to PL has become a SR for them. Although I may be looking too much into that

What is SR?

Oh sorry, I assume you're new? SR means scum read

Yes, fresh out of the newbie queue.

Ah gotcha, in that case. Who is your top 3 town reads and top 3 scum reads. If you do not have that many, say so and give it a shot whether that be from gut or from logic.

Also give reasonings where you can.

I'll start with my scum reads.

1) GoldenParadox

i'm going to advocate hard for a nm policy today because their shit is objectively antitown and no one wants it

nm is also looking mildly scummy + i have a lot of townreads so nm is my vote today

For me policy lunch is NAI or I would have read Noraa as scummy too. But it's the contradiction that I find off here. Followed by no explanation as to why NM is mildly scummy.

2) FuzzyLogic

Don't know why Not Mafia is going elimination bait here. Not sure if he joking or trying pull off the I am too scummy to be scum gambit or maybe both. Maybe the best move is to eliminate someone else and have the cop investigate him tonight. Not sure if a NM elimination is the best move for the town but I willing to hear reasons why he is a good elimination for today.

The suggestion sounds good, and yet there is obvious willingness to eliminate NM. Especially when the reason can easily be discerned if you just read the thread. It seems to be a way to cop out of responsibility in case NM is eliminated and flips town.

Then again it could be just people are too lazy to properly read the thread. You don't seem to read either, and that in and of itself doesn't make you scum.

I don't have a third.

As for town:

1) Noraa
For not pressing on PL on NM. And in particular this post,

@noraa want to join me on that?

The answer was yes ... until I saw this post:

pings me as town

Post is too long so I snipped it for you but the gist of it is Golden gives like twenty billion people a town pass. That aint towny behavior if u ask me. VOTE: Golden

Town is paranoid and scared. Aint no town out there handing out town passes for no legit reason. Taylor's entrance post DID NOT say absolutely ANYTHING about her.

2) Taylor
I like her stand against easy lunches.

so im just gonna say now that i will not be voting NM or gerain today. they are both players that dont do a whole lot day 1. NM doesnt really do much even after day 1. but they both do contribute in their own ways, especially as the game progresses. and they are far too easy for scum to push for free kills early that give town little to no info, and they are much easier to actually read later on, particularly gerain.

3) Geraint
I don't know why he is an easy lunch since I had never played with him or read his game. But as of right now, he seems town. At least that's how it come off to me.

I can give a 4th and that's you because I like your line of questioning so far. Is this fine?

[Zurel]

It can't be this easy, but

VOTE: GoldenParadox

This may lead us somewhere.

[Zurel]

nm is also looking mildly scummy + i have a lot of townreads so nm is my vote today

dislike this if you follow through and actually votepark/stop trying to solve other slots for the rest of the day

obviously i'm trying to solve other slots i don't do voteparking

VOTE: the golden paradox

Why you omgus my liege?

I didn't

I think I caught that you were on him for saying you v Zurel were SvS theatre. Was there more to it?

Did you confuse what OMGUS mean, Herta? OMGUS is when you vote someone for voting you. Geraintm didn't vote GoldenParadox because Golden voted him.

[Zurel]

2) Taylor
I like her stand against easy lunches.

I don't particularly see this as AI for Taylor. Scum can come up with this logic as easy as Town.

I like the rest of the post though especially where you qualify the fuzzy scum read. It really doesn't sound like much of a scum read at all tbh.

That seems like a contradiction. Can you please explain?

[Zurel]

Did you confuse what OMGUS mean, Herta? OMGUS is when you vote someone for voting you. Geraintm didn't vote GoldenParadox because Golden voted him.

omgus as in TGP scum read him, so geraintm voted him. Falls into the same theory.

Is it? I don't really know about the mechanics and terms of mafia.

[Zurel]

Also OMGUS at it's core is essentially retaliatory actions based on being scum-read. Doesn't necessarily need to just be regarding votes but a lot of the time it does regard that.

I see. Thanks.

[Zurel]

2) Taylor
I like her stand against easy lunches.

I don't particularly see this as AI for Taylor. Scum can come up with this logic as easy as Town.

I like the rest of the post though especially where you qualify the fuzzy scum read. It really doesn't sound like much of a scum read at all tbh.

That seems like a contradiction. Can you please explain?

It's a bit of a change of direction as I was typing it out and rather than starting over I just tried to explain it at the end. Really, I think you prematurely scum read fuzzy based on you qualifying it as him possibly being lazy and not reading the thread.

To be honest it was more of a lean scum rather than downright scum. But in a pool of null and some town leans, it was something that stood out, for whatever it was worth.

[Zurel]

I saw that shelly lmfao

@Mod

I saw that too.

[Zurel]

Jackson, didn't you say you want to sleep? Is this your dream?

[Zurel]

It's incredibly coincidental that the person that they wanted to PL has become a SR for them. Although I may be looking too much into that

What is SR?

You're not *that* new. hm. am I worried this is newbscum now? absolutely.
Jacko not suspecting here is strange as well considering Jacko saw two of my first few scum games on site and he knows that I used to pull the noob card hard. I would be like "hmmm so if there's a fn and a tracker, its got to be column a setup"

If I really don't know and I can't wiki it, I will ask. And I will ask again even if you think I'm newb!scum.

[Zurel]

Zurel is a SL but there's nothing more to it unless they keep using their noob card in a ... what I consider unreasonable way.

At the risk of using my noob card, what is SL?

[Zurel]

+2 scum points

Noraa, you can give me as many scum points as you want, as long as you answer.

Jackson, thank you.

[Zurel]

Zurel is a SL but there's nothing more to it unless they keep using their noob card in a ... what I consider unreasonable way.

At the risk of using my noob card, what is SL?

Steam Locomotive

Better than Slow Learner. Which I legit thought what it was.

[Zurel]

vote: jackson virgo

Why?

[Zurel]

Hmmm...

Here is where I show how easy it is to sow doubt in my mind.

@Noraa

How hard did Jackson go after you for using noob card? I mean, since you guys dug up my game, I can also ask about your games.

[Zurel]

Hmmm...

Here is where I show how easy it is to sow doubt in my mind.

@Noraa

How hard did Jackson go after you for using noob card? I mean, since you guys dug up my game, I can also ask about your games.

I believe I hosted the game where they used the noob card.

Noraa mentioned two games though.

Also, at this rate I will go to bed before you do.

[Zurel]

Hmmm...

Here is where I show how easy it is to sow doubt in my mind.

@Noraa

How hard did Jackson go after you for using noob card? I mean, since you guys dug up my game, I can also ask about your games.

go dig it up then! I didn't ask you anything

I hope you realize that both those games where I used my noob card hard were scum games. Whether or not people went after me doesn't matter. What matters is the newbscum will use their noob card more.

My suspicion isn't on you but on Jackson. If they thought I could try to pocket them, I too can think they're trying to pocket me for giving me an easy towncred. But this Pandora's box was opened by Rock as a possible situation (because how sure are we of our town/scum reads. I personally can't go 100%).

As of right now though, I'm inclined to think Rock and Jackson as both town.

[Zurel]

It also didn't make sense imo

How so?

[Zurel]

So it basically just says Jacko accused you of pocketing but NO you can accuse them back. But for some reason they are still town?
Then Rockhopper jumps out of nowhere and SRs someone and they are a TR for ??? reason?

I'm just considering the possibility. Good on you for being able to have 100% conviction on your read, but I don't.

And Rock's argument makes sense to me.

[Zurel]

I'll start with my scum reads.

1) GoldenParadox

Your TGP read is very similar to my own read, so I can definitely get behind that one.
To be completely honest your Noraa read is very similar to mine also, especially that post as I said.

Zurel and Noraa are both easy town. TGP is the most likely scum from what I've got aorn.

VOTE: Paradox

It can't be this easy, but

VOTE: GoldenParadox

This may lead us somewhere.

this pings me

vote: Zurel

Oh, good grief. I thought NM would be a handful, looking at how people raved about them. But here you are.

[Zurel]

So it basically just says Jacko accused you of pocketing but NO you can accuse them back. But for some reason they are still town?
Then Rockhopper jumps out of nowhere and SRs someone and they are a TR for ??? reason?

I'm just considering the possibility. Good on you for being able to have 100% conviction on your read, but I don't.

And Rock's argument makes sense to me.

Hmm. You're a very level headed newbie. Difficult to read but I like it! You're a puzzle. I'll figure you out sometime later

Oh, I did cry a bit and threw a table out of the window. You just don't see it.

[Zurel]

this pings me

hello! Please explain your reads better. Stop hopping from wagon to wagon otherwise u will get some scum points from me.

zurel scumreads tgp but doesn't vote there until JV does

I would go back to meta, except I have none. All I can say is I don't have 100% conviction on any of my reads, ever. When I say scumread it probably means around 80% conviction, and this early game maybe even 70%. I need someone else to nudge me all the way.

Take that for what it's worth.

[Zurel]

What.

[Zurel]

town: {zurel, noraa, tgp, gerain}

Not sure what changed between your vote on me and this post that made you slot me as town, but someone else can ask that. I'm interested on your Gerain's read.

[Zurel]

Also, I have been feeling uneasy about the newbie interrogation Noraa has been giving me. I feel like there might have been a misunderstanding.

I'm not a newbie through and through, nor did I ever claim as such. I only said I was new out of the newbie queue. Read my ISO so you see I'm not lying. I had played on another site many years ago but if you still can see noobness in my playstyle, it's probably because my only completed game here is my first game in the said many years.

And when I ask questions it's because I don't know, they don't use the terms or abbreviations where I hailed from. So please, in the name of all that's holy and wise, do answer them even if you want to scumread me.

Have I made that clear? Thank you.

[Zurel]

Noraa, how many scumpoints do I already have? I want to risk asking what LHF means.

[Zurel]

Thanks, Noraa.

Herta, I think there are other better slots to go after for the time being.

[Zurel]

hiii noraa would you like to reevaluate your read on me because you know i'm town :^(

Golden, you never explained why you thought NM was mildly scummy. I think that's a good place to start from if you want to show you're town.

[Zurel]

Rocky's logic makes sense kind of... Rockhopper can you break down why you think Zurel or Virog is likely the scum on the TGP wagon rather than the other player on that wagon. Trying to understand your logic here

I think gerain and noraa are both town, more on that later.
My vote on JV is stacked on Fuzzy atm, something isn't right.

This is the second time you promise the "more on that later". Are you planning to write a novella?

Looks like stalling and stalling imo isn't good.

[Zurel]

I'd guess scum is among Taylor, Golden, Fuzzy, or Nepenthe, maybe. Who knows? I haven't played mafia in over a year so I'm not sure how much trust to put in my own reads yet. We'll have to wait until after we lynch a scum for me to regain some confidence.

I can relate to not being sure about your reads. But something must have happened between your #20 and your #62 that gave you a strong enough conviction on Taylor's scumminess. What is it?

love your energy, noraa

Why do you scumread this, Nora?

Did I miss Noraa saying this particular post scummy?

[Zurel]

NM, why you so attentive to this game? That seems unusual for you.

This is NM being attentive? Oh, wow.

[Zurel]

223 also felt like the epitome of scum gibberish. Either that, or Taylor's thinking is too deep for me to understand.

The virtue signalling I get. But 223 is about me and unless my eyes are lopsided, you lean town on me. I don't know if I'm the right person to ask this, but what exactly is the epitome of scum gibberish in it?

[Zurel]

@Hiraki, what exactly was the 'mistake' you said I made? Referring to 193, Rockhopper's post that you quoted.

Also I'm not seeing why people are voting Herta. But I will reread tomorrow and sort the players better.

[Zurel]

*voting Herta/ saying he's scum.

[Zurel]

TGP and Zurel are lockscum

I thought you were scum with me and TGP. When did you leave the PT?

[Zurel]

You called out two scumreads and then didn't vote either of them until a wagon started. Some people see that as a hard and fast scumtell since you're saying something but not doing it. To make it worse, you then voted once someone else did as if it wasn't of your on volition. I don't have 100% equity in that but I do see it as an anti-town move.

I will keep that in mind for future I guess. Though I did already give explanation to Rock when he raised the point.

[Zurel]

Is everyone ignoring 288? Is that a claim?

[Zurel]

Is everyone ignoring 288? Is that a claim?

vt means Vote Totalled, someone uses it to signify they're one vote from being eliminated, I always hammer at E-1 so E-2 is basically vt in this game

Oh, I thought it was Vanilla Town. Thanks.

[Zurel]

I'm still rereading but I saw Jackson's vote on me. I don't know if I can defend the post they quoted but their distrust in me makes me more strongly that they're town. Take this as a pocketing attempt if you want, Jackson.

So far my vote is still on TGP. I will continue rereading and add more later.

[Zurel]

*believe more strongly

[Zurel]

Also, just to be clear, TGP really had claimed Vanilla Townie?

[Zurel]

This is so hard. Everyone seems to contradict each other and calling others' read as nonsense. And aside from TGP's wagon, the votes are all over the place.

I'm still not done re-reading.

[Zurel]

TGP did claim Vanilla Townie and they are obviously Town for it. What mafia would NOT claim PR if pushed to be yeeted D1

Can't there be any possibility of WIFOM?

[Zurel]

I am starting to think that Noraa is tunneling and quite stuck in there. She is reading scum anyone who goes against her, but I don't think Jackson is scum. Just looking at the vote placement, if Jackson was scum, why would Jackson vote me when there are many other wagons they could push and get a town eliminated?

At the risk of getting her scumread, I VOTE: Unvote: TGP

[Zurel]

I screwed up the format, but that was an unvote.

[Zurel]

I fear that I too may be tunneling, NM.

[Zurel]

VOTE: FuzzyLogic

That's the best wagon I can see right now. Everyone else is either my town lean or I can't yet understand why they're voted.

[Zurel]

VOTE: FuzzyLogic

That's the best wagon I can see right now. Everyone else is either my town lean or I can't yet understand why they're voted.

This is such a bad vote LOL.

Yeah, I'm aware buuuuuut...

[Zurel]

I'm doing what I can, to the best of my limited skill. Even if my logic doesn't align with other people's. But hey, you guys are shading each other's reads too, and you're all experienced players.

Also, why am I a lurker?

[Zurel]

VOTE: herta poor logic, generally scumreading them, and i see this wagon today.

I don't like this. Especially after that vote on Geraint. I agree with Taylor, this looks like flailing scum.

[Zurel]

VOTE: TGP

And that's it from me today.

[Zurel]

No, but say what you want to say. I don't think I will change my mind, though.

[Zurel]

No, but say what you want to say. I don't think I will change my mind, though.

Please don't let confirmation bias keep you from changing your vote. Is there some reason you're unwilling to vote Herta?

I don't see what is so scummy about Herta, as of now. Hiraki made a case against him but I didn't buy it, or I would have voted long ago when I changed my vote from TGP.

[Zurel]

Fine, Shoshin. I will unvote for now, but FOS still on TGP.

UNVOTE: TGP

[Zurel]

I'm not sure, but I think I might be E-1 just now.

[Zurel]

Give me some time, Shoshin. I want to ISO some people first.

[Zurel]

Give me some time, Shoshin. I want to ISO some people first.

Better to reread the game from start, as I did, if you have the time. I know ISO is easier, but full context is key.

If you do this, you can skip all of Nora's posts.

All right.

[Zurel]

Fine, Shoshin. I will unvote for now, but FOS still on TGP.

UNVOTE: TGP

weren't you already off golden?

I feel like no one is reading the game (except Shoshin) and that hurts.

[Zurel]

This is what I came up with after rereading.

Town Read/ Town Lean:
Noraa
Shoshin - I think she is doing an active scumhunting and although in the beginning I was dismissive because I couldn't understand her logic for voting Taylor, as the game proceeded, her line of thought became clearer.
geraintm - Hiraki called him out for not contributing, but even though he didn't post much, I think so far what he posted made sense and I could see the attempt at figuring out the game. I particularly liked him calling me out for my vote on Fuzzy (476) which he called shitty.
JacksonVirgo - I had explained before, but I think their suspicion on me was town indicative. If he was scum, he had more than enough chance to pocket me but he didn't.
Tayl0r Swift - I still think her Town but after rereading Shoshin's points against her (in the early part about why Shoshin believed Taylor was scum), there are a certain points that pinged me as rather strange. But I'm not going to think too much about them for now.
Hiraki - I think in the case of Hiraki vs Herta, it cannot be TvT. I'm choosing Hiraki's side.

Null:
Rockhopper - Someone who plays this way is hard to figure out but if I squint my eyes at a certain angle, I guess I can see why they TR some people? For now I think he's null.
Not_Mafia - There is one post that pinged me as town, but the rest is null. So null it is.

Scum lean/ scum read:
TheFuzzylogic99 - Still think this slot is scummish.
Herta - Whatever Shoshin is selling, I'm buying. Especially when I compare Shoshin's 654 with Hiraki's 386. I didn't initially think much about his claim of not contributing much because this was only D1. But the more I looked at their posts, the more they looked like coasting. There are other players who don't post much, but I can see their thought process to some extent. While Herta is just non-committal, which, if he's town, isn't helpful to town at all.

I'm putting TGP aside for the Day. I'm obviously prejudiced against them and I don't think that's good.

VOTE: Herta

[Zurel]

@Jackson, your vote on me is pure paranoia. If you still think I'm scum, you can do something about me later. For now, come join one of the wagons.

[Zurel]

I need Jackson back I think bc they seem to have sensible takes.

Howdy

Me trying to evaluate people the best I can even when I'm called shitty and scum, is pocketing, but this isn't?

Get off your high horse, Jackson. I have no appetite to pocket you.

[Zurel]

Shoshin, do you still read TGP as scum? Although you're against their wagon?

[Zurel]

I really don't think he's scum...

[Zurel]

Noraa

why do I have no explanation

I reread the whole game but skipped all your posts, because Shoshin asked me to and you were my strongest TR. So I just used my default read on you but I had nothing to say about.

[Zurel]

*about you.

My English is abysmal.

[Zurel]

TGP is still super scummy, zurel still reads as super robotic newb scum to me.

I would put that in my sig if I were scum. Not only robotic, but

super

robotic.

[Zurel]

Sorry I forgot and am too lazy to go look. Zurel who are you voting?

Herta. I think Hiraki vs Herta can't be TvT.

I don't have any meta to guide me, so I'm judging just based on the current game.

[Zurel]

TGP is still super scummy, zurel still reads as super robotic newb scum to me.

I would put that in my sig if I were scum. Not only robotic, but

super

robotic.

ur technically not allowed to do that until the game ends regardless of ur alignment.

Ehhh, didn't cross my mind to actually put it though. It was sarcasm.

[Zurel]

Herta. I think Hiraki vs Herta can't be TvT.

Why can it not be TvT?
Do you still think golden is scummy?

I just feel that it's unlikely. I'm putting aside TGP for today, Noraa. Already stated it in my last read list.

[Zurel]

It was sarcasm.

its also against site rules unfortunately.

I have a confession to make, Noraa. I don't even know how to put in a sig.

[Zurel]

Only the one on my profile but not the one that appears in forum like yours.

[Zurel]

oh thats the one. you just need to change the settings so it attaches your sig by default. otherwise theres a button that will let you post it manually in the full post editor.

Ohh... Okay. I'll try that later.

[Zurel]

I'm on V/LA so I can't post often.

I think Shoshin was killed because she led town yesterday. I came across someone saying that Shoshin had really good and genuine reads as town and third party, but as scum she couldn't fake the genuineness. So maybe Noraa is right that she was killed because her reads were accurate.

Also, why are we voting No Lim? Jackson might have been scummy for the second half of the game but it was so contrary to how he played the first half. Why would he suddenly flip like that? There may be some outside factors that clouded his judgement, like his personal life. I personally don't read his slot as scummy and so far I don't see No Lim as scummy. I suggest that we give No Lim some times to adjust itself to the game, there ought to be better elimination choices than No Lim.

I'm not putting any vote until I can better focus on the game.

[Zurel]

I suggest that we give No Lim some times to adjust itself to the game, there ought to be better elimination choices than No Lim.

I'm not putting any vote until I can better focus on the game.

so there are better choices (at least there "ought to be") but you also don't want to call out one of those better choices?

Later Hiraki, later. For personal reasons, I can't be around for long and I want to focus on my other ongoing game first. Then I will come back here.