Mini Normal 2173 | Bending | Game Over

[Marky Mark]

Please can we play the game with a level of respect? You have every right to disagree with me, but there's no need for personal attacks.

Calling your posts "beneath moon logic" is not a

personal

attack. It's a

game

attack.

Your pretend indignation however, is noted.

Hey DGB, I get that we are seeing things from very different angles this game. Disagreeing with other players' logic is ofc part of the game but it just sticks in the gut when you go to extremes of hyperbole like that to discredit me as a player. You may not feel you are doing that here, but that is how it comes across to me and it just smarts a bit.

There are plenty of constructive ways to disagree with me while taking the emotiveness out of it. Likewise, I'm sorry if I've said anything that's come across as abrasive or has gone above and beyond what I needed to say to convey my POV. I am not trying to claim the moral high ground in any way here, because I'm sure there are things that I could've probably phrased better too, but I just want us to all get along as far as possible and not come out of this game hating each others' guts

[Marky Mark]

Ok, now that was a bit of a plot twist - I genuinely thought that was a hammer there

I suspect FL would be the obvious NK choice due to his PR, but in the unlikely (IMO) case that I die here then it could well mean infinity is scum and was in danger of being verified.

So, tell me again how this works in your mind, cuz I'm really puzzled. Why won't you just stay hidden and target FL instead and catch a killer, rather than outing your role and Infinity's target??

You're just going to have to trust me on this one I'm afraid (well obviously you don't

have

to ) - I will explain tomorrow, but this is the optimum play for my role. I have explained the minimum needed to coordinate night actions because I don't want to give the scumteam TMI.

There's some good speculation in the last few pages on associations between Taylor/Infinity. The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that the best option to solve here is to wait until I can verify Infinity overnight and then we can use that alignment info to associatively sort Taylor more accurately. A Taylor elim today would be a poor choice IMO, regardless of whether you think she townflailed after the fake hammer because we will be able to make a substantially more accurate sort tomorrow based on knowing infinity's alignment.

Townpoints for Andres' selfawareness in updating his stance on Infinity

[Marky Mark]

Flip. Right, regardless of alignment this isn't good that we've rushed this. without being able to organize ourselves.

Infinity - I really need to know who you are targetting tonight or I can't verify you

A50 - I would really really like to know who your preferred elim choice(s) would've been before we have any sort of flip to provide some accountability

Dude are you serious? You want the detective to claim their target? In other words, FORCE the detective to get a negative result even if they hit scum.

That's not quite how his role works (I misunderstood it too) - he can still see if A50 performed the NK yesterday, so its not a complete waste (and realistically, whoever performed the NK yesterday, will probs kill again tonight to minimize players the detective can detect) and the benefit of all this is that we can verify infinity's alignment

@Marky Mark talk to me about VPB. Can you update your read? I know you said you had a nuanced view there and that you aren’t sure. Has that changed?

Let me try and get across where my reads are at RN

Conftown{FL, Koba}
Could well be town{JV}

Middling{VP

, Taylor} | Low-info {N_M}
Potentially scummy{A50, Andres, Infinity} - A50 is more gutfeel here based on posting style, the other two are more based on tangible things they've said/done
Scummy{DGB}

Infinity is a special case where due to PR mechanics it just does not make sense to elim him today

Marky Mark's updated "middling" read of VP is that I'm scum LOL

Is your name Marky Mark? No? Then kindly let me answer my own questions rather than misrepping me thanks

Marky Mark has four people he'd clearly vote for, A50, Andres, Infinity, and me.
Three more where no one would bat an eyelash if he joined the wagon: N_M, Tayl0r, and VP.

So that's seven players he'd be OK yeeting.

But even JV "could well be town" so he could still be vote-able for Marky Mark.

Now we're up to 8 players he could yeet and be scumsistent, while obsessing over me.

Only two players (FL and KOba) he couldn't vote.

I really hope you are just trolling here, because to accuse me of confbias on you and then stretch this far to try and distort my words is nothing short of creative writing
-I have made it clear I am not going to elim infinity today and will have him verified by tomorrow (barring any scum PR shennanigans) so this is a non-issue
-DGB/A50/Andres yep those are SRs although Andres is reading more town after his recent posts, so I would be hesitant to go there rn
-Taylor I am not eliming today
-Ref JV, could well be town is just another choice of words for townlean so we are arguing over semantics here
-N_M yeah maybe as a compromise yeet
-...and VP I am going back over ATM to try and refine some of my thinking, so yeah I wouldn't rule it out but I need to get my head around the recent dynamics of the Taylor wagon(s)
So I make that around 5 max I am not psychic (or even a particularly experienced town player - I have one game as town since returning from my 6 year hiatus, where I replaced in D2 to a mathematically solved game due to PR interactions) so I hope you can understand me not knowing for sure where the scum slots lie

[Marky Mark]

@Andres - top of my head, VP's recent posts look like a townflail fmpov. I am also starting to SR Taylor slightly more due to observations others (eg DK) have made, such as how difficult it has been for her wagon to get traction. I think this section of the playerbase would be sorted much more accurately though once we can verify infinity's alignment.

There is definitely a grain of truth in VP calling out some of my later posting as trash - this game has moved way too quickly for me and I have been somewhat out of my depth in terms of capacity to keep up and also just in terms of game size (the largest game I've played in memory prior to this was ~40 pages when finished). Nevertheless, I am trying to add value where I can here, so let me say the following:

-I meant what I said before about how leaving Taylor until tomorrow would give us significantly more info to try and solve with as we are likely to know infinity's alignment. This is less true for VP, but I still think trying to solve the {infinity, taylor, vp} segment of the game will be more straightforward with that info

-As a result, I would rather look outside of that today at A50/DGB or even N_M today. I don't think there's anyone else who is likely scum here.

-DGB keeps returning to Taylor, but her vote justification over the non-claim is at least consistent with her vote justification on geraint. If Taylor winds up being scum then I may well have been wrong about DGB. I am also starting to think that the point itself (Taylor's lack of claim) has merit to it.

IMHO VP and Taylor are the most complex slots to sort in this game due to their # of interactions and associations. I slightly disagree with VP's assertion that a flip will crack the game open as I don't think it necessarily solves slots like N_M or A50.

I am going to take a break for virtual church, but I want to have a deeper look at Taylor/VP today and try to capture the evidence for and against each slot, because I think it's important we get this correct.

-- pedit. @JV I don't see how this is true after some of the assertions pulled by them (infinity) earlier eg that they were conftown on the basis of PR distribution and game setup

[Marky Mark]

Here’s the thing, Marky. Yes, tomorrow we could solve her better, but that’s the case with effectively anyone in this game.

Taylor opens up the Taylor Andres VP triangle more than anything, and while I’d prefer Andres, Taylor is fine

Perhaps I didn't phrase my argument very well. Yes, waiting until tomorrow would provide more info for sorting any player - but it is likely to provide us with a

specific

piece of info in terms of infinity's alignment, which will make sorting Taylor's slot

significantly

easier due to their interactions (ie the info we will get here goes beyond the wider increase in info that we will get in general anyway)

@Taylor, I'd like to hear in your own words why you didn't out your role when you thought you had been hammered.

[Marky Mark]

So the original Taylor wagon that reached E-1 was (pg 116):
DGB, VP, Andres, DK, FL

Then she reached E-2 (pg 129):
DGB, JV, DK, Andres

The E-1 fake hammer one was (pg 147)
JacksonVirgo, Not_Mafia, Flavor Leaf, DkKoba, VP Baltar

So we have a core of 7 players who have voted Taylor across the three wagons as Andres and DGB were not on the fake hammer one, but were on earlier ones. Conversely, JV joined the 'Vote Taylor' campaign on the second wagon and N_M joined it on the most recent wagon.

If I take myself out of this and take Taylor out of it too (as she is the target) then that's 7/9 players who have at some point today been serious about wanting her elimed (the other two players are A50 and Infinity).

That's a pretty significant % of the playerbase.

I wrote up the wagon compositions to try and make sense of it but this seems worth sharing in case anyone else has insights based on this? My initial take on this is that it leans towards her being scum as with that many players being on her wagon at one point or another, the scumteam would've had more than enough votes to eliminate town!her and could've made the starts align to ensure that went through. This supports the point that DK (and others) have made about the difficulty of getting traction on her wagon pointing to her being scum

An alternate interpretation would be that she is town and DGB and/or Andres slipped off the later wagon to avoid being implicated but this just doesn't make sense really IMO because that first wagon on pg 116 could quite feasibly have gone through

[Marky Mark]

UNVOTE:

I am not as sure on DGB as I once was - if Taylor is scum here, then I could see DGB potentially being town

[Marky Mark]

The more I think about this, the more I think if Taylor was town she would be elimed already as the scumteam would've been able to coordinate 6 of the 7 players who have voted on her wagons onto a single wagon

I am still of the opinion that knowing Infinity's alignment would be useful for sorting Taylor but I am open to doing a 180 on my position of leaving this till tomorrow due to the simple reason that I no longer think there are better [feasible] options for today:
- Recent interactions have got me thinking DGB could actually be town here if Taylor flips red
-my A50 SR is mainly based on feels and fence-sitting (as requested, I looked at a couple of your games A50, the bus driver one and wherewolf where you seem more decisive as town than you are here) and others don't seem to be SRing him so it's probably not a feasible elim choice given we are well into the second half of D2's IRL time allowance
-Andres' posts over the last day or so IRL have felt more town than his previous ones (an example of the previous ones is the misguided push on infinity)

I'm going to go for some exercise and mull this over, but I am minded to vote Taylor on my return unless I have any brainwaves to the contrary. I have been giving her town cred most of the game for TRing me and pointing out that my scumgame is very different to my posting in this game (which is true), but in hindsight, the fact that she is right about this doesn't mean that she has to be town.

[Marky Mark]

I have mulled this over while out doing cardio
-I think Taylor is competent enough to fake her interactions during the "fake twilight" convincingly
-I think town!taylor would have already gathered the 6 votes needed or an elim,

or as a minimum a firm 5 needed for a claim

by this point given the large overall pool of players who have voted her
-I am coming round to DGB's point that not claiming in the fake twilight (or, more specifically, claiming alignment but not role as Taylor did with her "I'm town you fools etc etc") is scummy here
-In the interests of openness and fwiw, I don't think there are many smoking guns in her wider play other than a few weird pushes like on Gamma when he placeholder voted N_M D1, but I do think the repeated wagons with shifting composition here make her circumstantially very sus

She's at E-2 if I've read this correctly, so consider this

FOS Taylor

a pseudo-E-1 in terms of voting intent (and accountability on me if she flips green) as I don't want N_M to lolhammer before we've had a claim

[Marky Mark]

Taylor, I'm sorry if I'm wrong. Both you and VP are very capable players and both of you play the town resigned to their impeding miselim act very well, but things make more sense with scum!you in terms of the multiple wagons on you today

VOTE: Taylor

That's E -1

[Marky Mark]

Andres - I think that's hammer, not E-1

Can you also clarify 'dont really believe' ie do you mean you are uncertain or actively think it's a bad idea?

ie Jackson, FL, DK, Me, VP, Andres

[Marky Mark]

Clarification: Last para was me writing down who I think is currently voting Taylor

[Marky Mark]

Please define someone else. Would be an easy way of you to avoid being verified if you left me guessing :p

[Marky Mark]

Please define someone else. Would be an easy way of you to avoid being verified if you left me guessing :p

For context, this was addressed to infinity ref his night action target (replying to post on previous page)

[Marky Mark]

I’m ok with not being verified, it gives me a much higher chance of getting a guilty if I don’t name my target. Taylor is town so it probably won’t be relevant, but yeah.

Whoever kills tonight seems likely to be the same person who was sent to do the kill last night (because why would you tag 2 of the scumteam and make them both discoverable), so I'm not sure this logic holds up.

This really feels like you trying to potentially slip out of being verified :s

[Marky Mark]

OK so if all goes well and we flip scum, there is a 1/3 chance that it will make your night action irrelevant if you name a target.

I think a 1/3 chance of missing your night action is worth the payoff of getting your slot verified. Would like to hear from DK and FL on this as conftown players as ultimately, this ought to be decided based on whatever is going to benefit the town the most.

[Marky Mark]

do u not see how hes trying to control night actions

That's kinda the point DK....

[Marky Mark]

Like even if for whatever reason you genuinely believe me to be scum, at least coordinating this means that in the event you miselim me you will know infintys alignment for sure.

[Marky Mark]

I'm going to bed imminently, if infinity does not name his night action target then I will regard this as him trying to avoid being verified, unless there is a clear consensus against this plan.

Take care all, and thanks for an enjoyable weekend of scumhunting

--pedit the risk/reward of verifying him is massive. If it proves him to be town then that's a nice to have but if it proves he's scum, even if there is only an outside chance of this fypov, then it's a huge payoff of having caught scum

[Marky Mark]

and yet this assumes.. you are still town mark

Lol dk - like I have literally just said at least this way when you and DGB force through a miselim on me tomorrow you'll then have some certainty on infinity following my demise

[Marky Mark]

(I'm half joking about the forcing through of the miselim, but the wider logic still stands)

[Marky Mark]

Morning all, I'm not up to date with all the new posts but just wanted to get the info out that DGB was visited by a detective and mailman

[Marky Mark]

Clarification: multitasking mailman

[Marky Mark]

I mean I don't think there's a massive amount to be gained from being coy any more so I'll claim - I'm a Role Watcher.

[Marky Mark]

Sadly I need to actually go and to work etc now but will try and get on a bit later and catch up with all the shenanigans so far.

[Marky Mark]

Good evening all, I am home from work and have caught up with the flurry of pages from overnight

Let's start with the key thing - DK is straight-up lying. They've claimed Simple Mailman, whereas they are in fact a Multitasking Mailman. We can debate their motives for targetting DGB all day - I suspect they may have thought I was a normal watcher or voyeur rather than a Role Watcher, which would have made them look towny as I would have just seen them mailing DGB.

FYPOV either DK or me is lying and therefore scum - it's that black or white. There is no point looking elsewhere for an elim (eg N_M's current vote on VP )

I will be pleasantly surprised if not faded today but if you look at this objectively it ought to be pretty clear that I'm town here and I'll try to lay out the case for this, so let's not rush a wagon through. Be careful not to let DK lolhammer me either as when I flip green she will be confscum anyways

-- pedit VP beat me to the point I was trying to make

[Marky Mark]

-Taylor (conftown RIP) has experience of my scumgame and has consistently strongly townread me all game.

-DK's position on whether they thought I could watch DGB last night jsut doesn't make sense due to how inconsistent it is - 4260 from VPB sums this up really well

-DK's position ref the Taylor wagon is also all over the place compare

mark i found independently scummy from d1. also them hopping on the taylor wagon late on d2 makes sense now

Where she SRs me for being late to the wagon with

put shade on wagon, get ppl to scumread said person, hop off to be disassociated once more people are more or less set in a tunnel on the slot

Also talking about the wagon where she explains how scum could've started the wagon and hopped off after getting others (ie townies) to join the wagon later on

-DK's assertion in 4266 that there was 1 scum out of me and Infinity seems to have come out of nowhere and doesn't make sense

-Their attack here is jsut massively clutching at straws (I was posting half-asleep in bed at 7am my time because I knew how important it was to get the result out before people claimed other stuff and was planning to read up, draw conclusions and vote etc after work):

Morning all, I'm not up to date with all the new posts but just wanted to get the info out that DGB was visited by a detective and mailman

Clarification: multitasking mailman

look at that

they have a lapse here and slip and dont claim a role that would obviously be a scumclaim wrt what i claimed. the fact they just dropped this and left without even so much as dropping a vote is absurd

[Marky Mark]

VOTE: DK

[Marky Mark]

If we are going to talk about the Taylor wagon, let's also talk about how DK was consistently on it for much of D2 and was a key driving force for the wagon. I was the 8th player to be on a Taylor wagon that day - if votes had been timed differently she could've been elimed 2-3 times before I'd even voted her. As explained my vote was based on the amount of friction the wagon was facing and the number of times it hadn't gone through, ironically it was DK who voiced this idea in the first place.

We can also talk about associative reads as well. I've been saying DGB is scummy for a while and Infinity dying over the FN on the night he had targetted her supports this (possible ofc scum did this to set her up). She is WKing DK hard and has been all game (apart from early D2 when she inexplicably stated that she was going to consider eliming DK that day and then retracted it). She was absolutely another driving force behind the Taylor elim and hopped off more than once when the wagon got too much heat.

-- pedit

@VP I was surprised to see FL claim the non-loyal odd night FN today as heavily implying they were a different type of FN just doesn't make sense in terms of orthodox town play (I remember reading on the wiki that it's almost never an good idea for town to fakeclaim or misconstrue their role) but I don't know how in-character it is for him.

Both FL and Andres have U-Turned on me fairly hard over the course of D3 so far from seeing me as probably town to SRing me.

[Marky Mark]

@VP to give examples of the 180 degree reads on me by Andres and FL

Andres 4147 has him stating DK is scum but he seems to have come around now to seeing me as more likely to be scum (or at least his prefered elim option) eg 4222

And FL 4007 has me as 'probably town' then votes me in 4279 and bangs on about how scummy my posts are in 4298

I don't think they're both scum tbf - it's DKK, probs DGB and then one other, which could be one of those two.

FL's FN stuff ought to be verifiable if the town make him target someone widely town-read who can verify it, so there is a chance that that slot might be mechanically solveable.

[Marky Mark]

Infinity dying over the FN

I think andres made this argument earlier. I just don't get it. Killing the detective seems like a much smarter move for the scum, compared to the low risk of keeping a FN alive for another day.

If DGB is town then letting her be investigated doesn't clear her, but due to FL implying he was a Loyal FN, letting him have a night action on that assumption would either give us another conftown or find a scum.

This isn't hard and fast ofc as scum could be trying to frame DGB but Ockham's Razor would say that the more likely course of events is that they were trying to protect her

[Marky Mark]

I'm going to be popping out this evening but happy to answer any Qs as and when I'm on. Tbqh I am fully expecting to get faded here.

If you look at things objectively, I've been pointing out that DK and DGB are scummy all game with the exception of DK on D2 where it sounded like they were town due to the original mailman claim and the FN shenannigans. I have laid out my position on both of them objectively and most of the stuff coming back the other way has been misreps and unsubstantiated smears, particularly in DK's case.

They have also both hardpushed townies in terms of their votes throughout whereas I compromised from DK to Geraint to avoid No Elim with <24h left on D1 and moved to a Taylor vote late D2 after believeing the (false) argument DK made about how sus it was that there had been multiple serious wagons on her and she was still alive.

Just look at who has been pushing hard and consistently the wagons on town players who are now dead - this is absolutely the smoking gun here

I am also a shocking scum player and you have a conftown player in Taylor who knows my scum game and read me as '90% town' shortly before dying.

[Marky Mark]

@Mark I don’t know that I necessarily SR you. Mechanically, one of you and Koba is Scum. But if you’re Town, Flavor is almost by definition also Scum. And given associatives, DGB would have to be flipped at that stage. So have the contours of the entire Scum Team if you’re correct. Which is why it’s useful to flip you to confirm all of this. If you’re Scum, then we really have many players that are a Town core and a Confirmed Town that I’m sure will need to get taken out. So logically, executing you is the right play.

I can see the logic in this POV, although I feel it leaves the town at risk. DGB seems very likely scum in association to DK. FL looks scummy by association but I wouldn't say he is confscum. His claim redefinition is v scummy but if true I suppose he could perhaps have FN'ed DK in good faith.

Obviously if there were 4 scum (my first mini so not sure how rare this is) we would be effed lol

Like I'm pretty zen about all of this, but I worry that if I am miselimed first then we could still lose with 3 players left as FL isn't stone cold scum. Conversely, if we flip DK today then we are in a commanding position where even if we are wrong ref DGB (unlikely) or FL (more possible) we still win.

[Marky Mark]

I did think about what Tayl0r said about your slot. But effectively you’d be siding with VPB who both Tayl0r and Infinity had as their only SR. So that goes both ways.

I totally get this and I also thought VP was a prime suspect before receiving my results PM at the end of N2. They were wrong on that SR but its understandable because VP had been pushing them incorrectly.

--pedit oh ok Andres, that makes sense ref FL and DK I guess. I mean my point was that it's still not a stone cold town win eg if any of you/JV/N_M were scum and DGB was just having a really bad game in terms of tunnelling me and WKing DK but I do see how it looks fypov too

[Marky Mark]

Obviously Infinity checked Flavor and we know that to have been truthful, so I am willing to clear Flavor completely, and decide between you and Koba now. I would rather force the Scum into a bad position if they’re both Town by nuking you, than taking the chance of executing Koba. And yeah, DGB stood behind Koba to the point that there’s just too many associatives for any of them to get away from consecutive executions if you flip Town. Though you are right, it would be Koba, DGB, Flavor. Given Flavor’s mechanical claim, he can also clear himself to someone outside that group tonight *anyway*.

We know FL didn't kill N1, which is not the same thing as him not being scum, eg if the scumteam was DK/DGB/Another player I could easily believe that DGB killed N1. FL v likely scum but not stone cold scum here

And besides I know I’m Town right. Koba defended me to Flavor, who really wanted to execute me yesterday. Koba as Scum let’s that happen probably, or at the very least does not protect me nearly as much. How can I TR Koba and not then immediately assume that Flavor and DGB are Town here, and you’re Scum Mark? I can’t right? I’m boxed into this decision for sure.

I'll leave it up to the more experienced players to decide how likely 4 scum is and how likley Role Watcher/Detective/Odd-Night FN is as I have no idea. I see your POV but it leaves 0 room for mistakes. It's also worth pointing out that while I think you're unlikely to be scum here Andres, its a non-zero chance that you could be and scum!you makes exactly this argument to ensure my lim today

[Marky Mark]

If people are still unsure, go read the vote counts from throughout the game off Glitch's ISO and tot up how many VCs have DK voting for a townie who is now dead compared to me voting for a townie who is now dead. They have consistently been pushing townies hard the entire game, whereas I was primarily pushing DK d1 and DGB d2.

[Marky Mark]

Btw if I've counted correctly (I could well be wrong after speed-reading 15 pages or so to catch up) I'm at

E-1

right now (DK, DGB, FL, Andres). We wouldn't want an 'accidental' hammer like yesterday.

[Marky Mark]

Is that hammer? On phone ATM so have only vaguely skimmed. I was town tho.

Go forward and elim DK and DGBkme I've been asking you to do all game

[Marky Mark]

Typo: *like I've been ...

[Marky Mark]

its real hammer mark its ok

I'm really town so there's no point lying any more

[Marky Mark]

Back on the desktop - will post some analysis shortly but before the thread gets locked let me thank you all for the game - it's been really enjoyable

The town are going to have to clutch here but we've got some competent players on our side, and once you see my flip you ought to have a good idea where scum lie

[Marky Mark]

So DK is confscum and you'll see that once I flip.

DGB has WKed DK all game and has pushed me hard D2 based on completely spurious arguments and also killed off the detective about to investigate her so she is probscum

FL's summary of the game for N_M was absolutely dripping with bias towards DK's version of events and away from mine so he is probscum too, even outside of changing his claim 180 degrees from what he hinted at and its hard to see that from a town motivation

Minor outside chance Andres is scum - he seemed pretty keen to push me today and also was a bit iffy in hammering Taylor D2 while claiming not to realise it was a hammer and saying he didnt like the vote

N_M hammering before every player has even had a chance to respond to the thread D3 is a little rude - that 2/2 games I've been elimed in where I've been hammered with 0 statement of intent to hammer now lol

[Marky Mark]

I absolutely reserve the right to say "I told you so" in the postgame chat after pushing scum as my primary elim choice both days

WP scum for an effective campaign of discrediting and undermining - it's obviously worked because you've managed to get the town to elim me today despite the DK/DGB hardpush on Taylor throughout D2. I mean this in a genuine sense - the tactic has clearly worked well for you so congrats

-- Pedit DGB claiming that yolohammering is optimum town play lol.

[Marky Mark]

I will probably call it a night shortly, like I say it's been fun and I look forward to egging the town on from the dead thread. Try and hold FL to account for his claimed role tonight eg DO NOT let him try and FN DGB who could just lie and say that she's seen him if they are both in cahoots.

VP - thank you for trying to be the voice of sanity D3 and not rushing into a miselim. You're probs town here (not that TRs of dead townies seem to count for anything judging by how you all ignored Taylor's (just teasing))

Peace out guys - enjoy the rest of the game

[Marky Mark]

Thanks for the game all and WP the scumteam.

DGB, I'm sorry for spending a fair slice of the game tunneling you. If it makes you feel any better, I was SRing A50 for coasting too and I was right about him so my methods aren't

completely

flawed

[Marky Mark]

It felt like we kinda threw the game away D3 somewhat. I'm open to ideas of what I could've done differently in that 1v1 scenario - the wagon on me just seemed to get rushed through so quickly before I'd had time to have any meaningful back and forth with DK

We could also probs have done better collectively at spotting townflails after two townies got fake hammered and we still subsequently elimed them

[Marky Mark]

I don't really understand how people are saying the PRs are balanced in the town's favour

I mean if anything the detective role was a negative force as it gave us false confidence in FL's slot after he got an inno N1.

The doctor/vouyer had 0 objective impact on the gamestate, as did the universal backup and my role only caught scum because the scum misplayed (they knew I would be targeting DGB and still targeted them).

I would honestly have traded all of the above for a single cop who could've at least cleared a slot or two.

Sidenote - if I am understanding the roles correctly adding the role watcher actually weakens the town as if the rolewatcher dies before a stronger PR then it neuters the impact of the backup.

[Marky Mark]

the reason scum did well was the skill level gap not setup balance

Modest as ever

[Marky Mark]

I'm sorry, I must not be quite following - if the role watcher watched the doctor/detective then they still don't know who is in that role, only that the role exists.

[Marky Mark]

Thats not to say town was weak lol.
But yall did get gerain d1 so

I'm only teasing - you three did very well as a team.

If X person claims doctor and says they targeted XYZ person on a given night and I happened to be watching then yeah I guess that makes sense.