Mini Normal 2179 | Mason PT | Rannygazoo & Mathblade

[Rannygazoo]

Normal games are explicitly non-bastard so there’s no chance we’re scum, right? Right.

[Rannygazoo]

Hey TGP, if you live in the bay area, get me a job

[Rannygazoo]

My strategy is to not be shy about being associated with you (but I'm not going to claim or go so hard that people think we're a scum pair). Just if one of us gets mis-elimmed or nightkilled, the other will have an easy time claiming mason if it comes to it.

[Rannygazoo]

If I die, hopefully you can use #11 and #41 (content that will make sense in retrospect) to convince others that I'm your mason.

[Rannygazoo]

Not a lot. My thoughts on Titus are what I said in the game thread. Usually a nicer player, so I’m not sure how to interpret the change in meta. Everyone seems to think it’s towny but it could be a gambit from town or scum wanting to play differently.

NPOM was in my last game too. He wasn’t a careful reader and missed a lot of votes and events that everyone should have noticed. But when he wanted to buckle down and and make sure that his vote was right, that’s what he did. I’ll be watching for the same kind of pushing in the thread. It’s not his style to do careful analysis and come to conclusions on his own time.

[Rannygazoo]

Wtf

[Rannygazoo]

I didn’t think so but no one else seemed to mind. Maybe it was so obviously bad that no one felt like the need to call it back.

There’s going to be blowback on Outworld tomorrow. Do you think he’s scum?

[Rannygazoo]

not really, but he killed a pr, dude has to go

If he’s town, scum is definitely going to push this angle

[Rannygazoo]

alchemist has to be scum right

Why is he worse than sb8?

[Rannygazoo]

Losing lots of good PRs. I've never played with a neighborhood but I imagine it's powerful with masons.

[Rannygazoo]

What a weird pick for a night kill. Why him? He was on superbowl9‘s wagon with me.

[Rannygazoo]

Happy join day

[Rannygazoo]

Welcome!

Day 2 will end or drag on for days depending on if sb9 gets hammered soon. You can read and make your on conclusions. I feel like I might be the night kill since no one’s scumreading me and others have claimed VT.

FL pushed for a mass claim but I haven’t claimed mason. I did have to defend Non a bit at one point without having a super good explanation.

[Rannygazoo]

--Redacted.

[Rannygazoo]

Do you think sb9 is town from his own play or do you think the wagonomics is off?

I don’t see what good questioning the neighborized claim will do. NPOM put BM through the wringer for it already and it didn’t go anywhere. Maybe I should take all the “BM said Andres said” with a grain of salt.

That said, go ahead and poke all the hornet’s nests. I still think sb9 should be the elim, but we’ve got plenty of time.

[Rannygazoo]

Ha, that’s funny.

I don’t think I need to breadcrumb anymore because my day 1 posts along with me studiously ignoring Non for the same things I pushed the other lurkers for is probably enough.

Speaking of lurkers, Alchemist has been totally off my radar and that may come back to bite me.

[Rannygazoo]

What do you think of FL’s negative utility claim? Something that doesn’t interfere with night results. I looked at the normal role list and I don’t know what it could be. Maybe something that activates if eliminated, like vengeful.

[Rannygazoo]

I was thinking there isn’t one. With two PRs dead (including roleblocker) and masons in play, we’re running out of space for PRs.

[Rannygazoo]

Thanks! I think I’ll be ok because no one has a case against me. Titus is trying but can’t come up with anything. Then again, those could be my famous last words.

[Rannygazoo]

Assuming sb9 flips red and you get killed, what then?

[Rannygazoo]

“Horrible cook”?

[Rannygazoo]

I would love it if scum counterclaimed me later

[Rannygazoo]

Welp, guess I don’t need to claim anymore.

I still feel weird about hessian and alchemist. It’s going to be hard to sort them going forward.

[Rannygazoo]

It’s all good. You’re likely the nk so prepare a case against FL and I’ll share it tomorrow.

@TGP

am I allowed to copy and paste from here?

[Rannygazoo]

What is with PRs throwing themselves away this game?

[Rannygazoo]

Both Ben and sb9 put themselves on E-1. Like, I can’t even

[Rannygazoo]

I’m concerned because I have nothing to make reads with. But there’s got to be at least one scum outside those two. That should be easier to find. I was on sb9 because I had other suspects but he felt most likely.

[Rannygazoo]

Makes sense. I need to press alchemist tomorrow but the slot might just not respond.

[Rannygazoo]

FL was complaining about being scum too much and he’s felt a little despondent today. I could use that against him, and I would if I were scum, but is it really a tell?

[Rannygazoo]

viewtopic.php?p=12359154#p12359154

I would argue that this post is a scum claim. Scum self hammer all the time and it’s not remarkable. When town do it it is notable.
This reeks of Alch knowing Ben is town.

It wasn't actually a self-hammer, but point taken.

FL is irritating for pressing until I was revealed. That was pointless and not something town needs to know. Seems like he should be better than acting anti-town like that if he really is town.

[Rannygazoo]

I'll look at the interactions. If I can't, that implies the third is hessian.

[Rannygazoo]

Looking at the two side by side makes it seem like they're connected. viewtopic.php?p=12355828#p12355828 is a chainsaw defense.

FL posts so much fluff that I can't get anything out of it.

[Rannygazoo]

viewtopic.php?p=12371044#p12371044 Unusual to single out alchemist like this when (from FL's perspective) Non Imh, wyvern, and hessian were just the same.

[Rannygazoo]

I don't know. Gut tells me the 3rd is OutWorldER because their interactions are minimal, and doing scum theater with Titus or BM would be exhausting.

[Rannygazoo]

Busy couple of weeks ahead for me. I was going to join another game but I’m not going to have time for it.

I don’t think I could sell Outworld as the 3rd because I don’t entirely believe it myself. Everyone needs to claim tomorrow, and that may make the sorting easier. But I think everyone except FL will just say vt.

Hessian replacing out is probably NAI.

[Rannygazoo]

Given the town power we’ve seen, what do you think the scum power is?

[Rannygazoo]

If someone claims something other than VT it’s suspicious but not an outright guilty. Like 75/25.

SB claimed scum so I gave 0 fucks treating him like it as it was different than the other game he was ironically a mason in.

Agree. I feel bad for pushing the SB wagon but by the middle of day 2, it was clear that there’s no way we could bring him along.

[Rannygazoo]

Anyway, I’ll take your advice about waiting. My last game I was innocent child and it was hard. My timing with the reveal may have helped town but my reads certainly didn’t, and too many people were looking to me to decide for them.

[Rannygazoo]

That is WILD

I’m going to not read for a bit because I want today to develop without me and I don’t want to see something that tempts me to post. I think there needs to be a mass claim today for sure though.

[Rannygazoo]

It’s got to be flavor because he was the only one doubting masons, and scum would only leave us alive to play off that doubt and prevent one of us being locktown

[Rannygazoo]

Yeah I’m totally lost. What does NPOM know? And why is outer a better elim than flavor?

[Rannygazoo]

Outer claimed VT at the same time he said he was neighborized.

[Rannygazoo]

That's deep. I hadn't even considered an "awakens day 2" modifier.

[Rannygazoo]

I don't entirely buy NPOM as PR, though. My last game was with NPOM and posting incomprehensible fluff is just his style, especially day 1.

[Rannygazoo]

Titus is acting weird. Saying there's consensus when there's not is just sneakily trying to force consensus. I want to see more of her today.

[Rannygazoo]

Still not willing to let Alchemist slide. I want to hear from him today too before I can rule him out.

[Rannygazoo]

Why NPOM over Outer?

It will definitely be one of those two today.

[Rannygazoo]

That doesn't mean we need to do the stupid thing!

[Rannygazoo]

Yeah, outer is not looking good now

[Rannygazoo]

Alchemist seems predisposed to say masons aren’t real. Like it was decided at night. [x-files music]

[Rannygazoo]

Imma press it

[Rannygazoo]

Call me crazy. What if it’s NPOM Alch Outer?

I’d have to look into it. I thought alch was associated with FL.

[Rannygazoo]

I feel the same. I don’t want to jump to conclusions without hearing from Titus and no elim.

[Rannygazoo]

Why do NPOM and FL both have to be liars

[Rannygazoo]

He’s going to love seeing you say that when this gets released

[Rannygazoo]

Ok, just be careful you don’t run against TGP’s rule on civility.

[Rannygazoo]

Another reason I think it’s FL is that leaving masons alive today gives him an excuse not to be nightkilled tomorrow. I imagine he dies early a lot as town.

I don’t think that will convince anyone who doesn’t already believe us.

[Rannygazoo]

Seems like y’all have a history.

[Rannygazoo]

Whoa, I had no idea.

It’s fine. Plenty of time left in the day to sort it out.

[Rannygazoo]

Does everyone know she’s your sister?

[Rannygazoo]

Yes, no elim has a lot to read already.

[Rannygazoo]

Wow, I had the right idea when I said I wouldn’t engage except to vote him.

[Rannygazoo]

Don’t feel like you need to change your play for me. It’s all good as long as you stay within the rules.

[Rannygazoo]

Sure, I can leave it for 24 hours or so

[Rannygazoo]

What do you make of the BM doc claim?

I think, fantastic, another liar.

If BM is scum, then NPOM is too because of how their claims coordinate to discredit Outer.

[Rannygazoo]

It’s concerning me that Outer isn’t posting when he needs to be taking a stand on NPOM’s claim and other developments. Gives the impression that’s he’s stuck. He voted NPOM I guess but it doesn’t feel like enough.

Spectators don’t know the role list, do they?

[Rannygazoo]

Can that happen? I haven’t seen enough games to know.

[Rannygazoo]

There are a couple of weird things I noticed that I want to push on.

NPOM seemed SURE that outer was scum because of a Neapolitan “guilty”, which really just means outer as power. But BM claimed doctor and now NPOM is saying he isn’t sure which PRs are real, and claiming power isn’t scummy. Why the difference here?

In summarizing to no elim, FL mistakenly said outer claimed doctor. This was before BM actually claimed doctor. Is this really a coincidence?

[Rannygazoo]

I should double check that last one

[Rannygazoo]

I guess it was in response to BM but yeah viewtopic.php?p=12388709#p12388709

[Rannygazoo]

If it’s elo, what’s stopping them from going all in on a wagon and winning? There are plenty to choose from. Must be town voting town somewhere.

[Rannygazoo]

Let’s say you’re right and there are 4. That’s really powerful. Balances out all the power we’ve seen from town, and allows for more town power that’s unconfirmed. So maybe two out of three of {outer, npom, bm} are real.

I think outer would be the odd one out. Indecisive doesn’t gel with the other claims (Ben was 2-shot, and two living players claim alternating night). His risky play of quickhammering day doesn’t gel with his PR claim. He said so himself day 1 that at worst he’s eliminating VT because a PR would be more careful.

In contrast, nea makes a lot of sense with all the opportunities for positive results. (Us, whatever Ben was, neighborizer, and everyone who gets neighborized?)

I think FL might have slipped when he said doctor before the doctor claim. It doesn’t mean he and BM are on the same team, but it might mean FL knows something he’s not sharing.

[Rannygazoo]

I was thinking more along the lines of scum has a role cop

[Rannygazoo]

To my knowledge, Titus, no elim, and alchemist haven’t claimed. I want claims from them. Town knows what we’re working with and role cops become irrelevant.

[Rannygazoo]

Haha, I was going to quote the grid from post #1 and ask for help filling it in with claims.

[Rannygazoo]

Go for it.

I want to know why BM thought scum would already know he’s a doctor. He might have knowledge or suspicion of a role cop too.

[Rannygazoo]

I don’t really follow Titus’s point about having a town roleblocker implies there’s something to block. Of course there is. The roleblocker can block the killer.

[Rannygazoo]

I refer to myself in the third person when talking about hypotheticals, eg. town!Ranny would do this but scum!Ranny would do that.

[Rannygazoo]

BM flailed just like this at the end of day 2.

[Rannygazoo]

I had to choose between one protective claim to elim, I’d choose outer. BM’s slip is the sort of thing I would follow up on day 1, not so much later when we have wagons and play to go on.

Is it really common for someone to write in scum pt and someone else to copy-paste it?

[Rannygazoo]

What does it mean?

[Rannygazoo]

I didn’t even realize it’s a hammer

[Rannygazoo]

Shoot, FL didn’t tell me whether or not he’s town

[Rannygazoo]

If it’s elo, we can’t do it with no elim’s slot

[Rannygazoo]

I hope you’re alive tomorrow. I suspect everyone at this point.

I understand that one town-on-town vote loses. What were you going to say about play?

[Rannygazoo]

Sounds like a lot could go wrong in step 3.

[Rannygazoo]

Is the fake vote just announcing intention to vote? Is there an example game I should look at?

[Rannygazoo]

Can’t scum just cross-vote at the beginning if they think it will get the “teams” confused and lead to an easier win down the line?

[Rannygazoo]

I’ve played some RL games and a lot of Town of Salem

[Rannygazoo]

So when does it switch from hurts to votes?

[Rannygazoo]

I haven’t had a recent game reach elo

You’re used to town winning in a blowout, huh?

[Rannygazoo]

There’s one good thing about a town flip. It helps our credibility going into day 4, if we both live.

Let’s say you die and Outer or whoever tries to shrug it off and say he thought you’re scum/had a more important target. What then?

If outer succeeds in body guarding, then we’re in what, mELo?

[Rannygazoo]

Do we really want a no elim here? It feels like the two of us will be practically confirmed (with scum targeting you) and scum will just reduce it to 1 practically confirmed.

[Rannygazoo]

For all his whining, everything points back to FL.

He pushed NPOM to take pressure off Outer.
He pushes a scum agenda by trying to elim in the masons.
He seemed to have knowledge of NPOM’s claim, which scum with a role cop would easily have.
He’s in a chainsaw defense pact with Alchemist.

[Rannygazoo]

Thanks TGP.

Another possibility: scum chooses no kill in order to legitimize the alternating night doctor claim. And then scum does what they want n4 because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Rannygazoo]

Yeah, if FL is scum, he could be associated with anyone is what I’m saying. But there are a lot of ways he could be scum.

A bunch of weak evidence doesn’t add up to strong evidence. A bunch of blurry photos doesn’t mean Bigfoot is out there. I just think there’s some evidence here that might be stronger than I’m giving it credit for.

[Rannygazoo]

Which is what you intend to do now, yes?

[Rannygazoo]

I have to step out soon but I’ll check in and try to keep up.

I guess we start with day 1 since that’s when the confirmed townies were alive?

[Rannygazoo]

Ok, I’ve read up to day 2:

Interesting strategy. The final VC on day 1 is unnatural because the day was suddenly cut short. The wagon on Titus is easy to explain away. Non was chainsaw defending me, and whoever had no elim’s slot wasn’t really paying attention. Are you basing the scum!Titus theory on how unlikely it is that there were no scum wagons day 1?

[Rannygazoo]

Regarding the laser focus on Titus if we’re both alive: that’s just if she doesn’t do VCA, right? Without that tell, we might want to consider a different target.

[Rannygazoo]

You want to go for the difficult elim first?

[Rannygazoo]

I figure by now it’s safe to assume no elim is town because scum is doing so well and no elim isn’t helping.

[Rannygazoo]

Kind of hoping it doesn’t come to that but I’ll step up if it does.

[Rannygazoo]

Ok, I’m willing to call BM and no elim town and ride on those assumptions. If Alch dies, that seals it as Titus-FL-Outer.

[Rannygazoo]

I want to elim all of them. Even if you die, that doesn’t guarantee outer is scum because they might have a roleblocker.

[Rannygazoo]

Ok, and you think it would be best to use my conftown status to eliminate Titus because she’ll be the harder elim if I don’t, right?

I see what you mean that we get no data from it.

[Rannygazoo]

I just want to be extra sure that Alch is town

[Rannygazoo]

He’s buddied FL since the beginning and always attacks people who attack FL. I don’t know how to quote in here but that’s kind of been his whole play.

His initial vote on me was random/jokey. He was “anime buddies” with sb9 and I kicked the hornets nest by voting sb9.

[Rannygazoo]

I don’t know these players but FL said Alchemist was nominated for don corleone. I assume he’s a good player too.

[Rannygazoo]

Two other things stick out in Alchemist’s ISO: his push of NPOM (which seems to develop organically, points for him) and his post #299 that makes it look like he knows how Ben will flip. I had the same reaction but only after I saw the flip.

[Rannygazoo]

I don’t know these players but FL said Alchemist was nominated for don corleone. I assume he’s a good player too.

If Alch is scum, FL is also scum.

Why would scum say another buddy is good scum?

FL kept harping on how he doesn’t bus, so it’s all WIFOM.

[Rannygazoo]

Ok, I’ll do it. It feels like a roll of the dice but if we’re right on Titus, it should leave town in a good position to mop up the rest.

[Rannygazoo]

I should probably share this discussion before everyone dogpiles and ends the day, huh?

[Rannygazoo]

I consider Titus’s worried about being killed n1 and then her VT claim to be a point against her.

Same for Outer’s admonishment of reckless play of pr!ben and then his own PR claim after playing recklessly.

There’s a nonzero chance that scum roleblocks BM and kills me, and tries to push for an elim on BM.

[Rannygazoo]

I’m hoping no elim doesn’t log on and give them that vote

[Rannygazoo]

Or BM impulsively wagon hopping

[Rannygazoo]

Who in town do you think will be hardest to convince?

[Rannygazoo]

I'm thinking Alch will want to keep being pocketed but if he's the kill, that simplifies things

[Rannygazoo]

Thanks for the kind words. I’ll just post some thoughts and notes here as I think of them.

Q: why didn’t scum!titus take the opportunity to shade town!BM over the slip?

A: to not lend credibility to MathBlade, and because scum didn’t want to distract from the NPOM elim they needed

[Rannygazoo]

;_;7

I’ll wait for the others to post, give Titus a little time to do the VCA tell, and then I’ll force the wagon.

[Rannygazoo]

Hey, here’s a strategy: I’ll self-vote and watch it to see who tries to dogpile me.

Nah, jk