Large Normal 230 - innocentvillager's Notes

[innocentvillager]

note1

[innocentvillager]

huehuehuehuehue

[innocentvillager]

Pg5

yeah I’ve been spamming this is not sustainable but it’s ok

anyways most is my thoughts at this point are in thread

I think guil is town

maybeeeee Norway is town but a little paranoid there
TGP seems townier than 2171 already, I like the point blank way of pointing to the posts that pinged town for him on Norway

[innocentvillager]

Pg37

It's been a while gonna skim through a bit

[innocentvillager]

Pre-reskim thoughts:

GE, Nero, TS, Norway are the top posters and supposedly just townread (with the exception of maybe TS)

Norway has been getting universally townread and same with GE to a lesser extent

is Non lmh Nono?? lol

4 replacements already, gotta keep track ugh

[innocentvillager]

TL 110 seems like an excuse
Glitch 130 entrance seems meh
GE 141 quick reversal on me seems genuine, the weird ask question again just for the sake of following up thing pings weird, but i think comes out as town because it's kind of explicitly a weird interaction that scum are usually hesitant to do for no reason
GE 154 "tired of waiting for an answer so i looked it up" seems like a towny mindset
Nero 173 is being a bit stubborn about read on me but eh seems solvy and they're explaining their pov. Maybe lean town for the "vote muh with me" part, again almost seems like blatant buddying but it's a townie mindset to want to just get people on board with you and go for the best vote possible
muh vs Nero: eh I can see muh's interpretation. It seems reasonable to have interpreted stuff the way he did
TS with the "stuff is NAI and let's move on" seems similar to their attitude from 2163, lean town but I haven't seen TS scum before so light
Guil 192 why does he not want people to sort him on claim? Literally wrote a whiole post on this how he wouldn't have claimed it if he were scum and how we were dumb for thinking they could be scum ascetic. Whatever i guess
On 290 ish now, not sure if anything has stuck out to me yet. Glitch posting still a little stilted/meh, wouldn't mind this slot going. Some light townvibes on TS
GE 326 backoff and switch again seems townie
Kanna 334 attacking my slot seems ehhh, if this is scum Nero is probably town. Don't think they are both scum ever really. The TR on Norway makes Norway more likely to be town
Norway 350 good vote on Glitch, mindmelded a bit with this one
NPOM 356 kinddd of seems townie, I like the replacement stats requesting, seems like something i would want to know
Guil 357 lol are they an alt, weird for them to bring it up
Nero 371 seems like a real reaction with all the really's, seems overblown if he's scum, idk
Nero 393 agree, ABR intro was very meh, didn't love TL's complain then replace out
GE 395 again, i like GE, really seems like they're trying to understand stuff
Uhhh JV 419 is town, the bomb drop and replace out seems like real frustration, this is kind of similar to Open 786 cult
NPOM 430 I kind of like this, although i have seen scum say stuff like this (Bulge Newbie 2023)
maybeee Kanna is scum, ABR voting for Kanna actually seems kinda mindmeldy now that i rethink
Norway 522 on Glitch, interesting, want to see what he comes up with, can kind of mindmeld here with Norway a bit
Nero 531 i TR this suspicion on me, it's very reasonable and clearly comes from excitedtown!Nero
Guil 537 LMAO i like, literally saw this coming from their last line of questioning, i had a feeling that was what he was going to target, the dumb wording. I don't even know if i think this is an intentionally obtuse alt anymore
TS 549 going after Nero seems kind of townie
ABR takes are kind of aggressive/minimal and i like them kind of
TS vs Nero probably TvT

end of pg24

reads

{Guil, Norway, GE} - townreads
{Nero, Pretentious} - towny
{TS, ABR} - lean town
{muh, TGP, NPOM} - null lean town
{TheDuke, Umlaut, May, Non} - null
{DGB, Glitch} - null leanscum

[innocentvillager]

619 it's not a big ball of shit, post count isn't like, that important in determining how you can read someone. I think Taylor might be fine
621 uhhh lol yeah kind of obtuse thinking here, i really do think Guil is just town

paused here will get to this later

[innocentvillager]

Umlaut saving me but giving me som eweird vibes with his catchup
I don't like the backtrack on 634 on the self consciousness of Guil, doesn't seem like a real read. I don't think the self-consciousness is scummy at all
Really vibing with 66 ABR, Glitch/Umlaut/Kanna are my scumpool, Golden and NPOM are whatever
GE 725 feels town, like this nuanced take
Guil 734 lol. If this is a troll alt, they really could be scum, but if not, it's just so blatantly screaming obtuse absorbed town
GE 746 what? i don't buy this at all. some people are just like that
Umlaut 772 complaining about catching up again blah blah scumtell ok, maybe. i complained as well so. idk umlaut just rubbing me the wrong way this game
TS getting townier with the backtrack on Nero? maybe? seems genuine that they're trying to reevaluate
Guil 791 i like keep townreading this kind of playstyle
Non reads are like whatever, im also biased in favor of activity, idrc, i don't see why people are pushing this. muh moving down for pushing this
muh 809 pings a little weird
muh at some point called Tay-Nero TvS, hmmm
Umlaut 812 i agree with this take on guil
DGB 824 WOW GE is scum, lets hear more. good takes so far
Glitch catching up seems pretty nullish, no opinion change
ignoring TS vs Nero again seems dumb and semantical, kind of NAI bc mafia cna use that to masquerade as noise/frustration
Guil 913 this kind of omgus comes from town i think
DGB vote and backoff seems genuine

ok im caught up time to reorganize reads

[innocentvillager]

{Guil, Norway, GE} - townreads
{Nero, Pretentious, TS} - towny
{ABR} - lean town
{muh, TGP, NPOM, DGB} - null lean town
{TheDuke, May, Non} - null
{Glitch} - null leanscum
{Umlaut} - leanscum

[innocentvillager]

pg49

most of stuff ive been talking about in thread and I’m caught up

TGP might be town for the not knowing FL thing and it doesn’t seem faked? Might have to revisit this thought when pretentious actually flips

I think scumteam almost certainly all knows who Pretentious is bc someone does

I still think pretentious just town here tho please no lolhammers

I think one tell for scum in these larges is to look for people who are like hiding in scum chat, would manifest as burst posting

[innocentvillager]

not sure why dgb still not engaging Much or answering my questions

[innocentvillager]

Umlaut I still have mixed feelings on

Kind of just want to see what happens there

[innocentvillager]

like the way he is engaging me is like that subtle sarcasm/sass that I’m being dumb and he doesn’t really care

which like, I would probably scumread most people in gneeral I admit, but umlaut has that very calm playstyle as either alignment that I like, feel like I am biased towards scumreading so I need to be cognizant there

[innocentvillager]

i think im at

{Nero, Norway}
{Guil, Pretentious}
{TS, GE, NPOM}
{ABR, TGP} - townlean
{TheDuke, DGB, muh, may, non} - null
{Umlaut, Glitch}

[innocentvillager]

i don't love how this list basically just has the top posters as the top, but, it really does tend to be a real trend in these games imo

Nero and Norway were scum before in some game with Saud and just like, looked like they lurked it out mostly and did not have anywhere near this much energy

[innocentvillager]

pg73 ^^

also yeah, Pretentious's whole thing just looks town

[innocentvillager]

pg80

yeah this game is long fuck me

i think all the active posters including me should just chill out and let the lurkers catch up, it only works if we all do it though!

who tf am i wrong on, meh, it is a little concerning

i am content discontent

[innocentvillager]

note to self here: be on the lookout for people trying to pocket me!!

possible people: Flavor, ABR, GE (with the recent walkback when i started "TRing him" again)

[innocentvillager]

eod1

yeah he was town but what the fuck flavor

[innocentvillager]

*pg100

i don't think Guil is a 2 shot alignment cop

i think he's reaction testing

the role is not "alignment cop" in mafiascum, it's just "cop", it is "alignment cop" in mafiauniverse though

the ascetic claim is obviously believeable at daystart, this one feels less so and more forced

[innocentvillager]

i want to see how his reaction test works out though, i don't want to share my thoughts in thread in case im right

[innocentvillager]

"Most often, a Bulletproof will only have 1 vest, i.e. only be immune to one nightkill, in which case they will most often also be informed when they lose their vest." - MU wiki

this is in contrast to MS, where you do not get informed when your BP is used. Might PM cakez just to make sure

[innocentvillager]

eod2

wow i was right i guess?

[innocentvillager]

looks like i've now leveled up! i assume the 1-shot is my bulletproof but im otherwise a fulltime tracker?

[innocentvillager]

so, nero is scum

guil obviously tracked nero or they wouldn't have faked it on nero cain

they probably got a result that was like, Nero visited Guil at night, that's how they knew they were shot

that would basically be a redcheck. i think i understand

[innocentvillager]

ABR could be the vig and vigged Norway

[innocentvillager]

hmmmmmmm

does nero do the kill tonight? it doesn't matter, i think we should just blitz him tomorrow, so checking him is pointless

ok, scum was almost certainly on the guil wagon

whoever tried to discredit guil, thats scum indicative. if im scum here im trying to find as many ways to just go "this part of your claim doesn't make sense, he's scum"

i thought it was kind of clear that he was fakeclaiming, but people just wrote him off as an idiot

he wasn't, it was just him confidently trying to fakeclaim something from his own mafia site (mafiauniverse), all the conventions he adhered to were from there

god i wish i was there in hindsight to push people away from voting him, i didn't think he'd actually get hammered, i just wanted to see what would happen

if i had considered there were ways to get redchecks other than "Alignment Cop" (lol, which obviously gets sanity checked in the scum PT), i probably could've pushed nero instead

anyway, my new role

i guess tracker ability is nice? but in a large, it's hard to imagine getting many guilties, negative checks are useless except to catch ppl in fakeclaims

if i could crumb my targets that would be fun

[innocentvillager]

wait, there are a few possibilities:

nero is mafia who shot guil
ABR vig shot norway

nero is mafia who shot guil
SK shot norway

nero is SK who shot guil
mafia shot norway

[innocentvillager]

if nero is SK scum associations are pretty useless

im actually starting to think nero is SK, that's why i felt he was obvtown

would also potentially explain why he claimed VT, since that's what serial killers are generally supposed to claim when checked by rolecop, etc

he also claimed it very quickly when the redcheck was outted. so it was either planned by his scum faction afterward (like "oh, he's softing us, what do each of us claim if we're the redcheck")

[innocentvillager]

time to check if 3 scum/1 sk is balanced

[innocentvillager]

damn, I didn’t have enough time to think much about this

I want to know if Nero flips SK or scum but I do think checking him is a waste so let’s just see what he flips tomorrow?

I hope scum but I think that might be optimistic

Given town universal backup, just skimming through other stuff, it’s probably either 4/13 or 3/1/13 I think

[innocentvillager]

if Nero is mafia then there are a few people I think are less likely to be scum

specifically like glitch and dgb? those were specific lurkers he went after

I don’t know if mafia are anticipating town universal backup, because it does seem to be kind of common in larges, so if they’re more aware of a tracker they might have their less suspected partners do the kill

maybe I should just track someone I’m paranoid of?

[innocentvillager]

I was like completely wrong on guil actually being ascetic, damn

them being absurdly self absorbed does kind of fit with it I guess, which became more and more apparent down the line

[innocentvillager]

if Nero is sk I think scum mostly stays out of everything and tries to lurk it out while everyone bickers about it in thread

If Nero is mafia I think scum more actively try to get guil elim’d

[innocentvillager]

ABR does not seem like scum
Gamma I think is town from the eod1 comment, emotional scumrange sorry
Nero not tracking

That leaves

Dgb
glitch
Umlaut
May
Insanoflex
Non
Muh
Starbuck
NPOM
Tgp

[innocentvillager]

Muh is pr or scum rarely vt?

[innocentvillager]

Gdi I have 50 min

[innocentvillager]

15 min

im thinking of tracking May

those posts were weirdly pingy

[innocentvillager]

actually ugh idk that iso looks fine ish

[innocentvillager]

i have no idea i submitted a Starbuck track with no time remaining

feel like scum will choose a random lurker spot to do this

fuck

[innocentvillager]

damn if this deadline wasn't over thanksgiving couldve given more thought to this

will just... pray that this hits scum

[innocentvillager]

the intention here is at least that, the low content lurkers who haven't really been sussed are least likely to get attention so if they are scum, scumteam might just let them do the kill

[innocentvillager]

Starbuck didn't visit anyone :/ yep i suck

at least he's probably not scum then tho?

[innocentvillager]

i guess there aren't like that many scumteam where i don't go "oh let's let the low-info lurker slot who has been discussed like 2 times in the past 100+ pages do the kill"

they're not even deepwolfed so it's not even horrible if they get found out

trackers are unlikely to track them/roleblockers unlikely to target them

it's just, minimal loss (if they get found out) more reward (higher chance of kill going through)

[innocentvillager]

specifically why this lurker and not others?

non imh actually had a wagon on them
may has been in a few pools and talked about
tgp... has been somewhat townread lightly but also talked about here and there

yeah everyone else has been like, talked about this slot

so i feel *ok* saying that starbuck is town here

[innocentvillager]

*sod3

yeah nero died

and flipped vt

so i don't know whats going on at all

did guillotina just gamethrow

[innocentvillager]

did i get shot?

i feel like i got shot

[innocentvillager]

my thoughts on this are in thread pretty much

feel like ABR could still be the vig and vigged Norway thought in the unlikely scenario scum kill didn't go through and town's did

[innocentvillager]

{ABR, Umlaut, Gamma}
{Starbuck}
{NPOM, TGP}
{Insanoflex, DGB, May, Non, Muh}
{Glitch}

i thinkkkk this is where I'm at

[innocentvillager]

i wonder how wrong this is

at least i was right on Norway, Guil, Pretentious, Nero all being town? (nero before the guil fiasco at least)

[innocentvillager]

Ok so something doesn't sit right with me.

Guillotine says he was shot, making it 2 kills last night, and then he takes it back when TGP, umlaut and NPOM catch him in a lie because limited-shot BPs are not told they lost a BP counter.

He tells us to scumhunt but it's critical that town knows how many kills there were last night in order to make an informed analysis.

Now here's what's interesting.

If he backtracks and says he wasn't told he was shot, then that leaves the door open for only one kill last night. Guillotine, since he's gambitting, would have known this.

So his Nero push is completely nonsensical.

Nero pocketed Norwee, why would he kill him if he's scum?

Why would Nero pick up on Glitch/DGB day 2 right where Norwee left off, if Norwee was killed to prevent him from going after his secondary reads after Pretentious?

It doesn't stand to reason that Nero would kill Norwee who believed him to be town, just to finish off what Norwee was going to do anyway.

But Guillotina brushes my concerns off and tries to make me believe there were two kills.

This whole Nero push was bullshit, he backtracked and said it's not Nero, it's one of the other players on his list, and was forced to retract his BP lie as well.

Guillotina is scum.

VOTE: Guillotina

Shit
ABR intimidates me so bad and I think it's because I literally live by his Guide to Hunting Scum on the wiki and he seems to be a prestigious player in my mind. This makes it so hard for me to sort him because he just feels so town in my mind but paranoia gets the best of me. I know Tayl0r Swift has been banned but I get the same vibes on ABR as I did from TS: freaking ridiculously hard to sort and I'm so bad at reading them.

ABR, why do you think the Nero push was bullshit originally? Is there more to it than the 6 player list of "herp derp there's a red check in here?" Or is that it? Or is it that you're TR'ing Nero so the push is shit?

I'm massive sus of Guillo but want to understand how you're thinking here.

damn idk if this comes from scum!Glitch often, seems kind of genuine

[innocentvillager]

I'm just inherently skeptical of theories that posit additional killing roles when there's been one kill per night, and I can't decide if the weirdness of Nero's being that kill is enough evidence to overwhelm that skepticism.

Same, you said it perfectly.

i think this could definitely come from a vig

[innocentvillager]

*eod3

ugh another lurker slot was town great

this rushing the game thing was really not what i wanted

[innocentvillager]

blah blah blah blah blah i don't know who to track

[innocentvillager]

it's also very possible i just die tonight lol and that scum hit me yesterday, tbh i think im one of the the towniest slots in the game rn

still don't know if mafia killed nero cain, still kind of doubt it but with how much assumption there is on mafia killing nero in-thread for whatever reason maybe it's not as ridiculous of a scenario as im thinking ??

i still don't buy the idea that the scumteam somehow has 4 lurkers all not paying enough attention to the game to realize town will probably speed-elim nero the next day

yeah think im here...??? could go for anyone in the bottom two tiers tbh

can't believe we have one ML left, what a fucking meme

{Umlaut}
{ABR, Gamma}
{Starbuck}
{DGB, May/unwnd}
{Insanoflex, Non/Vax, Glitch, NPOM, TGP}

TGP has really been underwhelming, basically seems like they're not trying at all ("what is there to comment on" -type comments, as town the mindset should be to try and proactively solve, not just "comment")

the muh wagon just brew out of pure apathy, but i don't really care that we hit that slot tbh

[innocentvillager]

again, if scum were never really being considered, scum can kind of just let the muh wagon happen naturally

if scum were kind of being considered, id imagine a scum or two to jump onto the wagon earlier to help it gain traction

there was a long lag between when Umlaut posted his muh case and it being re-brought up and people actually joining, will have to think about that

[innocentvillager]

actually Vaxkiller was kind of townie, it actually looked like he was trying to do something in this fucking gamestate before he really unnaturally switched off of ABR to muh

it's too openwolfy of a move to come from scum but because scum have incentive to do this, this could be getting into too scummy to be scum fallacy

[innocentvillager]

it's too openwolfy of a move to come from scum but because

scum have incentive to do this

, this could be getting into too scummy to be scum fallacy

again, assuming scum were being kind of considered

[innocentvillager]

unwnd was also trying to do stuff but for some reason that felt more NAI, I'm worried he's scum here taking advantage of the apathy to drive the town down a false narrative (a lot of his analysis was very narrativy and not specific) and power driving miselims

ofc it could just be town genuinely trying to make something happen and make sense of the gamestate. if i had interacted with them more I could've probably put out some tests to see if they would poke further or just ignore

[innocentvillager]

don’t think I’m gonna have a ton of time to think about this

[innocentvillager]

pg129

I have claimed

[innocentvillager]

glitch is scum and visited umlaut so that’s nice

[innocentvillager]

eod4

ok 1 scum down! time to reevaluate, 3 scum in:

ABR
DGB
Insanoflex
Noraa
unwnd
Vaxkiller
NPOM
TGP
Gamma

[innocentvillager]

Nearly confirmed town

me

- 1BP tracker

Vaxkiller

- VT

Townreads

unwnd

- Neo Neighborizer (Verified) (possible scum, but unlikely, see below)

dgb

- Rolestopper (Verified) (possible scum role)

Townleans

Noraa

- VT

insanoflex

- 2GS (verifiableISH) (unlikely scum role)

NPOM

- VT

Non-TRs

TGP

- VT

Gamma

- VT

ABR

1BG (Unverifiable/extremely difficult to prove with accuracy) (not a scum role)

[innocentvillager]

the move is to track

Insanoflex
NPOM
TGP
Gamma
ABR

because unwnd said they'd probably target Noraa

[innocentvillager]

unwnd and dgb will solve themselves

tbh, i bet the 3 scum are in that 5 person PoE, confidence on this is like 60% maybe

[innocentvillager]

if insano is scum, one of abr/tgp is scum, doubt it's both

if insano is town, Gamma/NPOM are probably just scum and one of abr/tgp is scum

so regardless, abr/tgp probably not aligned?

so possible teams with these assumptions are:

insano, abr, npom
insano, abr, gamma
insano, tgp, npom
insano, tgp, gamma
gamma, npom, abr
gamma, npom, tgp

[innocentvillager]

{ABR, Umlaut, Gamma}
{Starbuck}
{NPOM, TGP}
{Insanoflex, DGB, May, Non, Muh}
{Glitch}

i thinkkkk this is where I'm at

jeez if ABR/Gamma are scum this was bad

think at this point they were still weak townreads but still not great

[innocentvillager]

leaning away from tgp and gamma being aligned

Subject: Large Normal 230 - Night 4

TGP is probably the only player here who might immediately grasp why I don’t kill Nero here

leaves

insano, abr, npom
insano, abr, gamma
insano, tgp, npom
gamma, npom, abr

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: nero cain
i'm balancing if this is like... kokusho's gambit from guillotina or if it's just a stupid lie, but to be totally honest nero drove the elimination on pretentious and then posted this after guillotine's supposed redcheck:

like, I didn't think Guil had to be scum or anything but there's no way to get a guilty on me as I'm not a miller or scum so...

which makes me feel like this is a tmi scumslip and not the town response to an apparent cop guilty.

oh. fuck. that's embarrassing.

there's.... no way nero could have been the scumkill right? it would have to be a vig?

Is it just me, or does this look faked? Like, am I supposed to believe they opened the thread and laid down a vote without looking up 4 posts to see Nero had died and flipped green? Seems way more like an attempt to look town via acting ignorant than an actual mistake anyone would make.

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

this.... kind of makes me think tgp and insano aren't aligned, but im not positive

[innocentvillager]

SCUM who doesn't what to get involved with what he knows to be townie madness:

Hey all. Still reading up on the game, only about halfway through right now. Might need another day to get fully caught up, trying to speedskim through the game in 24 hours gave me a headache.

TOWNIE:

to be clear, in normals there is no chance of a guilty cop check on an innocent unless they are miller right? So given guil is truthful and Nero is not Miller, he is CONFIRMED scum?

SCUM who doesn't want this magical opportunity to slip with excessive discussion:

Making the day longer sucks for the player who knows for sure they are going to die. I've been in that position, and I don't wish it to my worst enemy. If everybody's checked in and had a chance to say their peace, yeet them swiftly and honorably.

SCUM afraid to get compromised in the townie madness:

i'm caught up insofar as i am actively reading the game but yeah there's not much i want to comment on

TOWNwith critical thinking skills:

So, I've got a big problem with Guillotina's claim and it seems almost so obvious that I feel like I must be missing something here since everyone else believes it.

HARDCLAIM!!! I'M A 2-SHOT ALIGNMENT COP WITH A BULLETPROOF VEST!!! THE BULLETPROOF VEST WAS USED LAST NIGHT AS SOMEONE TARGETED ME!

I gambled claiming an ascetic modifier counting on scum's arrogance to not NK me just because I was no PR but it didn't work as it seems.

THIS ALSO MEANS THAT THEY GOTTA BE A COUPLE OF VIGILANTES OUT THERE!

I am not aware of any normal role that would know if they were targeted for a kill at night but survived. Under Normal rules, a 1-Shot Bulletproof shouldn't be informed if they were shot at.

Another question:

My redcheck is in this group

and I strongly believe that his partners could be in this group too

Nero Cain
Gamma Emerald
Taylor Swift slot
InnocentVillager
Umlaut
ABR (not as likely but there are a few things that don't match)

Let's hunt scum!

If you targeted someone and therefore knew they were guilty, why would you give us a list like this? If you out and tell us who is guilty, that makes sense. If you wait until later today to out, so that you can see how the day proceeds naturally and how wagons form, that makes sense. But what sense does it make to say "I checked one of these six people"? Including putting one and saying they're

not as likely

... that pretty much gives away that ABR wasn't your target. What even is this claim?

So far my experience playing with town DGB is to just take her reads and flip them completely inside out and then they're accurate. Her reads are always so wrong when she's town and I've watched (particularly from the game I just modded) town!DGB be the scum MVP. I mean maybe it's just my limited experience with her but the scumhunting ability there is pretty twisted up from what I've seen and I'd be hesitant to follow her lead.

I'm confident Umlaut is town but other than that I'm cautious to be okay with most of these reads. IV is acting like a confused townie today but yesterday's actions were freaking off and I won't just disregard that when considering my read on that slot.

don't think discrediting your partner who is playing straightforward is something scum would want to do

[innocentvillager]

okay abr-glitch looks kind of partnery

insano, abr, npom
insano, abr, gamma
gamma, npom, abr

think im down to here, so which two of {npom, insano, gamma} are scum

[innocentvillager]

i might need to re-ISO ABR to make sure he is scum, but yeah im not townreading there anymore

[innocentvillager]

gamma, insano, abr is my current solve

[innocentvillager]

nvm, need to relook npom

[innocentvillager]

npom iso looks townie

gamma, insano, abr doesn't look too bad at all

[innocentvillager]

re-ISO'd insano and the whole claim, whole story is consistent at least

it's a good fakeclaim if it is one, and the slot feels kind of earnest most of the time on D3

uggggghhhh

[innocentvillager]

i will track someone at some point, have 24 hours

[innocentvillager]

yay insano is scum

let’s see what happens, I have time to out it