Micro 988: 09:12 [Game Over]

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Hello all,

So far I don't like this vote:

VOTE: ythan owo?

cause it didn't feel random at all.

and this reaction:

Ah fuck that's pretty predictable isn't it.

Cause it felt "desperate" and "informed"

but I have to

VOTE: Gimli son of Glóin

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Can you elaborate on informed?

It's a very weak read at this point but

Calling votes predictable at this stage of the game in reaction to them voting you, just suggest that you felt desperate about few random votes on you or that you have pre-information about people that you felt it's predictable.

"You're scum"
"OMG this was so predictable"

It's just a bit sus you don't agree?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

it didn't feel random? obviously it was a random joke vote in response to ythan's comment.

This flaw of votes didn't feel random.

Okay

VOTE: Datisi

Hi. First game here, lets make it a good one.

VOTE: ythan

VOTE: ythan owo?

Not necessarily scummy just something that stood out for me.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

VOTE: kyoko

are you purposefully not seeing ythan's post before i voted him where he told people not to vote him?

I can very well see it

But felt like you've been opportunistic about that vote so I mentioned it

weren't you?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

yeah, kyoko's posting is very dumb

is it scum? probably not, it's a mildly town thing to do to get the game out of RVS and create content, even if that content is very dumb

I don't appreciate being called dumb

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

i apologise if that looked like a personal attack. i don't even think your posts came from a place of being dumb, i think you were just grasping for something to move out of RVS with. which as i said is a good and mildly town thing to do.

No offense taken

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

VOTE: kyoko

are you purposefully not seeing ythan's post before i voted him where he told people not to vote him?

I can very well see it

But felt like you've been opportunistic about that vote so I mentioned it

weren't you?

define "opportunistic"? my thought process didn't go deeper than "oh look, ythan said not to vote him, it would be funny to vote him." while it definitely wasn't *random*, it also wasn't serious.

but i wasn't talking about your read on me, i was talking about your read on ythan. you called him a bit sus/desperate for calling my vote on him predictable, and to me it seemed that you were, for some reason, ignoring the fact that the post before my vote was a "don't vote me" post, which i thought he was referencing when saying my vote was predictable?

that turned into a word salad but whatever

Opportunistic as if you were waiting for a reason to make that vote and they gave it to you with the "Don't vote me" post.

Also, it felt desperate because of the way he built up his content to that point and his "don't vote me" post doesn't make me feel otherwise at all. You don't see how that looks desperate to call your vote on him predictable after they say "don't vote me please"?

Both of those reads are just based on how I felt you were "feeling" when you made such content and of course are not solidified reads which are the best I could get from page 1.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

reposting this as an answer to your question about why it felt desprate

Can you elaborate on informed?

It's a very weak read at this point but

Calling votes predictable at this stage of the game in reaction to them voting you, just suggest that you felt desperate about few random votes on you or that you have pre-information about people that you felt it's predictable.

"You're scum"
"OMG this was so predictable"

It's just a bit sus you don't agree?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

To scumhunt, the best way is to think how would a scum do when they were in such a position and to see if it makes sense for them to react the way they did or not

How would a scum be on page 1? Active scums usually want to keep their vote on someone to be able to lead arguments to the directions they want. For this reason, they are looking for opportunities to find an easy vote at end of RVS on a wagon that might get the tension from rest too - so they can claim credit for pushing it since ver start. Being opportunistic means, when you see they are voting you, and a good vote on them and them doing a poor reaction, put a vote on them without giving them any way to respond to it (which won't help the game to progress from RVS)

Again - This is literally a first impression and not even an accusation that you need to respond to

About them being "desperate", It's only natural to feel concerned when there are votes on you even if those are on RVS. Being desperate is reflected on the tone and the timing of the reaction - since it's obviously not purely a joke and all posts even the ones on the RVS stage can reflect emotions well.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

And I'm not a usual player. You will see me use terms like that (opportunistic, desperate, ...) a lot and against everyone even my town reads. Being opportunistic is also not a scumtell.

What makes a scumtell a real one is a story you can make with all these clues when you gather them all.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I obviously don't know you as a person. But that post reads like an attempt to backtrack for me. You have spent 2 pages explaining why you initially had a scumread based on 'opportunism' and now ypure like 'lol it isnt even a scumtell'

If you ask me a question I'll answer it. If you ask me 20 questions I will answer with 20 posts.

There isn't any backtrack on anything I said and my point was as transparent as it could be since the first post. I never said they are a scumtell; just that I don't like them and explained why as a response to all the questions which were asked about it.

Few posts ago you made a joke and admitted that people will not have solidified reads on the first page of the game. May I ask what changed about your expectations there?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

kyoko, is there a correlation between "things you don't like" and "things that you think are a scumtell"?

Yes of course.

No action is by itself a direct or conclusive scum tell unless direct scum claims or actions that are based on elements in-game that change the natural probability assumptions in the game. An action becomes a scum tell when it makes sense - that it was done by scum to push a certain agenda. To find the agenda, one must find any irregular or alarming actions and reactions and try to connect them to see if they can see the other person as scum doing them all or not.

In simpler words, I find the stuff that I like and don't like about people and put them all together and will try to assume myself in their position to see why would they do what they did. That's basic scum hunting.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I feel like you guys are very obsessed with my playstyle atm - or are using these questions to distract the natural flow of the game.

I prefer to leave chat for now so more people can come online and react to the stuff that happened so far.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I never said it's my first game here

and yes I have a lot of prior experience.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

oh your question was @horsewoman

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

You have spent 2 pages explaining why you initially had a scumread based on 'opportunism' and now ypure like 'lol it isnt even a scumtell'

Let me be more clear, I don't buy this, sell it to me.

She said that she "didn't like" a certain post and defended that position for 2 pages, then said "oh by the way 'didn't like' doesn't mean i scumread him, i just don't like it". I think that's a copout because 'didn't like' does mean a scumread in most people's minds.

But let me personally be clear, my vote isn't on her it's on you, and I'm happy with it where it is in truth.

I'm still defending my position of not liking those actions and never said anything in contrast to that.

I also don't like the second part of this post. I don't like how you're saying "my vote isn't on her it's on you" cause it feels like "conditioning". How is your read on them relevant to your read on me?

Can you elaborate on your reads?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I don't know what you mean by conditioning

How is your read on them relevant to your read on me?

Can you elaborate on your reads?

I feel like I explained it perfectly well there?

VOTE: Horsewoman

hi Gimli! It's been so long ^.^

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Why did you dodge answering that question earlier?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

As to ythan i think he's asking a lot of questions but i don't see the thought process behind them or that they're leading anywhere (as they wouldn't, if he were scum). My read may change if that post changes. I also dislike post 38. It very clearly tries to align him in support of you but it doesn't really accomplish anything or add to the conversation - he's just posturing here.

I can actually understand this perspective. Post 38 felt like an extremely pointless post to me too. I can see where you're going with this

about conditioning: It's a situation where someone condition one of their reads on another one of their reads "I'm not voting her cause I'm voting you right now" - This is usually based on some sort of fallacy and makes it harder for everyone else to follow the thought process.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I just started the game with 2 things that stood out for me - and could lead to an alignment indicative argument. I tried to explain why they stood out for me.

The vote was not random - that early in-game - and was on the person who was voting him (randomly though) and it happened when someone else created the base for it - which makes it opportunistic so I mentioned it.

Being opportunistic can also be a sign of trying to end RVS though. But that doesn't make it not opportunistic.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Kyoko's posts feel like someone who is trying so desperately to have a scum read with the knowledge that everyone they sr is town. A red flip on the slot would also possibly clear horsewoman assuming they aren't doing some wacko SvS thearer.

The first part of this is a good read. You say I'm trying hard to make arguments going and you think that can be scummy and a tell that I'm informed.

The second part of this isn't a good read at all since it's an "association read". It's a fallacy to use "my imaginary flip" to justify your vote on me this early in the day and feels fake.

Now the question is, what do you think about "horsewoman" without that association read and based on their own content?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Whats up gamma! Whats up bugspray! Whats up everyone else!

I would like to add a supporting voice to kyoko’s general view on the game, reading the first 3 pages i think we have similar mindsets. Im gonna fos horsewoman until someone tells me i can vote because im too lazy to count

This is such a hard "cookie"

I don't like "cookies" without "coffee", please

make your own reads and content so I can evaluate you

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I Like Datisis way of engaging with the game - feels unbiased and transparent

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

also forgot to respond to this

Page 1:
Kyoko I know you have your

detective

thing you do but can you not turn the entire game into that? It reads as forced when you’re looking at early joke posts like they’re hard evidence.

I'm actually sad that you're the only one who realized the "role play" I was doing The thing is I'm not that far from the character personally. I will promise to not let it become confusing or forced though.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Kyoko's posts feel like someone who is trying so desperately to have a scum read with the knowledge that everyone they sr is town. A red flip on the slot would also possibly clear horsewoman assuming they aren't doing some wacko SvS thearer.

The first part of this is a good read. You say I'm trying hard to make arguments going and you think that can be scummy and a tell that I'm informed.

The second part of this isn't a good read at all since it's an "association read". It's a fallacy to use "my imaginary flip" to justify your vote on me this early in the day and feels fake.

Now the question is, what do you think about "horsewoman" without that association read and based on their own content?

What you are engaging is called the fallacy fallacy in which instead of refuting an argument or idea you simply say it has a fallacy and pretend that refutes it. It is possible and not uncommon to come to a correct conclusion using a fallacy. I did not use a fallacy to justify my vote.

In addition you are misrepresenting the intent of my vote. The first half which you agreed is a good read is why I am voting you. The second half is an observation that while horsewoman is not very townish it seems unlikely that she would be scum partners with you barring SvS theater. I am voting you because I strongly believe that you are scum and your defensive, misrepresentative, and deflective reply only makes me more confident in this read.

I didn't refute the idea cause it can't be refuted. I was indeed poking multiple people and pushing arguments around. It's on rest of town to figure out if it was from town me or scum me.

And I didn't commit a fallacy fallacy. I didn't say since your read is bad it's wrong. I know it's wrong - but that's irrelevant since the rest of town can't know it. But that doesn't make such a read not bad. What I said was for this reason that If you're town, your confidence is misplaced so I hope you will not base the rest of your today's reads based on an assumption that I will flip red cause that will be a waste of time.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

then who is the scum if it's not you? imo gamma is a lil sus

Can you elaborate on that read

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Also you didnt answer my question:

"Now the question is, what do you think about "horsewoman" without that association read and based on their own content?"

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

And I didn't commit a fallacy fallacy.

Does that mean that bug commit a fallacy fallacy fallacy?
-Black

You can say that

It seems you read the game; I'm curious to see your content and reads

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Horsewoman is being a little vote happy right now.

First, he pushes Ythan, then FoS me and call me town at the same time back and forth, then gimli over his entrance (literally nothing), then bugspray when their name was also mentioned in that post where bug voted me (associated read)

I don't like this progression

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Like i dont actually think this is scumvtown i think its probably town v town. So lynching to POE is a waste of time. You could be trying to set up two mislynches in a row.

?
where was bug trying to set up executions there??

This exactly,

That associated read is so not "setting up executions" It was saying a red flip on me will make horsewomen look good. It just feels extremely out of place for Horsewomen to react this way to that post.

pedit: I didn't have my coffee yet. Apologies for the mistake

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I'm really confused as to why horsewoman said my interactions with anyone avatar roleplay person whose name I don't remember were tvt and then try to vote me in the same post.
It seems increasingly likely that anime person's plsystyle just appears scummy and my read is technically incorrect even if the reasoning behind it is correct.

The Superbowl progression is wack and the reason I didn't comment on the slot before is because in non stagnant games I view it as a waste of my energy to read someone off of one post when they are likely to have a lot more posts on the next 24h

I bet the gimli player has a H*lu subscription

I meant my own reactions with her were tvt. You said that if you lynch her and shes scum im likely town. But im saying we are both town. Never said you were. Actually the opposite.

"But im saying we are both town"

I don't get this. How do you know that?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I honestly didn't try to sort gamma yet. Not because he didn't do anything alignment indicative, but because I feel like there is a high chance for my initial read on them to be biased.

I don't find them mentioning out Kyoko role play scummy since I know they are into Danganronpa too but I also find their post where they call me town for "injecting that mindset in-game" kinda shallow and appease. Which is another reason I've been avoiding sorting that slot till they make other content I can get a better feeling based on. I liked their initial read on horsewoman wagon and the way engaged with it to sort other players - but I didn't like it at the same time that they did it from after my vote and didn't evaluate my perspective on the wagon at all.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

But they were saying "Kyoko could be scum and if so Horsewoman is probably town" as a reason to push/lynch you.

And the sort of implication of that is that if you flip town that I might be scum and look worse. So I was saying they were setting up two incorrect votes as if you do flip town, they were sort of laying the groundwork to throw doubt on me.

i don't like the bolded?

like in 75 bugs was saying that "if kyoko red then horsewoman probably green"? how does that imply "if kyoko green then horsewoman red"?

same

and this response doesn't satisfy me:

I obviously don't know that you are town, I think you are town based on the posts that you have made? Obviously I know that I am town?

You've really stuck your neck out and are trying really hard, in fact overhard to try and analyze the game.

I initially thought that was a scummy thing

to do but the more the game goes on the more genuine you read to me. And scum don't tend to get involved in beginning a hard push as you have done very often. It's not a particularly hard or solid read yet. But he was saying "Kyoko could be scum and if so Horsewoman is probably town" as a reason to push/lynch you.

And the sort of implication of that is that if you flip town that I might be scum and look worse.

So I was saying he was setting up two incorrect votes as if you do flip town, he was sort of laying the groundwork to throw doubt on me.

Horsewoman went from "kyoko flipping red will mean Horsewoman is green" to "kyoko flipping green will indicate Horsewoman is red" and then used "This is TvT" to react harshly to that vote which just doesn't make any sense and smells fishy

also he never called me scummy in game unlike what he claims in this post. He called my RVS towny on page 2:

yeah, kyoko's posting is very dumb

is it scum? probably not, it's a mildly town thing to do to get the game out of RVS and create content, even if that content is very dumb

This is just a contradiction on stance at its finest.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

she*

OMG whats wrong with me -

I'm sorry Horsewoman

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I don't think I have much to add to this game, at least until it gets out of RVS.
I can sheep vote someone, if you want, though.
-Black

You think the game is still in RVS?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

This wagon was formed on slime collective after their lame appearance in game:

VOTE: The Slime Collective

How about now.

VOTE: the slime collective

VOTE: the slime collective

and then came this:

Yes. RVS for me means not enough information to create strong reads.
-Black

Going to add my voice to the growing parade of people saying "really? Come on guys".

The initial votes seem ok-ish and this follow up seems "lacking"

intent to L-1 the slime collective

My gut tells me this sort of non-content is scum indicative.

This one seems "too much"

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Kyoko's posts feel like someone who is trying so desperately to have a scum read with the knowledge that everyone they sr is town. A red flip on the slot would also possibly clear horsewoman assuming they aren't doing some wacko SvS thearer.

The first part of this is a good read. You say I'm trying hard to make arguments going and you think that can be scummy and a tell that I'm informed.

The second part of this isn't a good read at all since it's an "association read". It's a fallacy to use "my imaginary flip" to justify your vote on me this early in the day and feels fake.

Now the question is, what do you think about "horsewoman" without that association read and based on their own content?

What you are engaging is called the fallacy fallacy in which instead of refuting an argument or idea you simply say it has a fallacy and pretend that refutes it. It is possible and not uncommon to come to a correct conclusion using a fallacy. I did not use a fallacy to justify my vote.

In addition you are misrepresenting the intent of my vote. The first half which you agreed is a good read is why I am voting you. The second half is an observation that while horsewoman is not very townish it seems unlikely that she would be scum partners with you barring SvS theater. I am voting you because I strongly believe that you are scum and your defensive, misrepresentative, and deflective reply only makes me more confident in this read.

I didn't refute the idea cause it can't be refuted. I was indeed poking multiple people and pushing arguments around. It's on rest of town to figure out if it was from town me or scum me.

And I didn't commit a fallacy fallacy. I didn't say since your read is bad it's wrong. I know it's wrong - but that's irrelevant since the rest of town can't know it. But that doesn't make such a read not bad. What I said was for this reason that If you're town, your confidence is misplaced so I hope you will not base the rest of your today's reads based on an assumption that I will flip red cause that will be a waste of time.

wtf is this post?

wtf is this post asking wtf is my post?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Horsewoman is being a little vote happy right now.

First, he pushes Ythan, then FoS me and call me town at the same time back and forth, then gimli over his entrance (literally nothing), then bugspray when their name was also mentioned in that post where bug voted me (associated read)

I don't like this progression

I think Kyoko is kind of either wilfully misinterpreting everything I say and do or is just interpreting it in the most confusing and least charitable way possible because she is hardcore tunneling me for whatever reason. It's silly.

And yes, mafia players often change their votes to apply pressure. I will not keep it in the same place as page 1, sorry.

How is that a misrepresentation. It's all facts.

and it's not like I'm catering my posts for you that you call tunneling. I'm posting about everything that stands out for me.

What I don't like about the progression is not that you voted for so many people. It's that your stances felt contradicting. On page 2 you called me towny - later you claimed you were scum reading me then. You used your first chance to change the topic by jumping on Gimli entrance. Then you reacted "really hard" on bugspray associated read between me and you.

Your stances just don't make sense.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

intent to L-1 the slime collective

My gut tells me this sort of non-content is scum indicative.

I don't think this is remotely true? Like scum who have their shit together don't transparently do nothing as Slime is doing, they sort of sneakily do nothing. I don't think inactivity or a lack of contributions is alignment indicative at all. If we can't find a better lynch at the end of the day than "get rid of the guy who isn't doing anything" then sure, but we have time to find something better than that.

What do you think about gamma's intent to L1 there and why?

What do you think about gamma in general?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

@mod can i get that personal pt i asked you for in a pm?

@mod can i get that personal pt i asked you for in a pm?

I responded to your PM two days ago; double-check your inbox please.

eeeeeeekkk

ms players doing ms things in games.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

No action is by itself a direct or conclusive scum tell unless direct scum claims or actions that are based on elements in-game that change the natural probability assumptions in the game

I mean

You quoting posts. You're replying to stuff

You clearly read the game.

Why no content? Why claiming its in RVS still?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Black is much better in creating cases that I am. There is no point in me talking about below-average opening of Gamma, the fact that his ISO contains scumreading without pushing and in overal not very deep analysis or his horrible push to our slot. I will mention it to Black and hopefully he can make a good case from it resulting into people casting VOTE: Gamma.
~Victor Hugo slime

This is giving all sorts of vibes.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Spoiler:

Kyoko's posts feel like someone who is trying so desperately to have a scum read with the knowledge that everyone they sr is town. A red flip on the slot would also possibly clear horsewoman assuming they aren't doing some wacko SvS thearer.

The first part of this is a good read. You say I'm trying hard to make arguments going and you think that can be scummy and a tell that I'm informed.

The second part of this isn't a good read at all since it's an "association read". It's a fallacy to use "my imaginary flip" to justify your vote on me this early in the day and feels fake.

Now the question is, what do you think about "horsewoman" without that association read and based on their own content?

What you are engaging is called the fallacy fallacy in which instead of refuting an argument or idea you simply say it has a fallacy and pretend that refutes it. It is possible and not uncommon to come to a correct conclusion using a fallacy. I did not use a fallacy to justify my vote.

In addition you are misrepresenting the intent of my vote. The first half which you agreed is a good read is why I am voting you. The second half is an observation that while horsewoman is not very townish it seems unlikely that she would be scum partners with you barring SvS theater. I am voting you because I strongly believe that you are scum and your defensive, misrepresentative, and deflective reply only makes me more confident in this read.

I didn't refute the idea cause it can't be refuted. I was indeed poking multiple people and pushing arguments around. It's on rest of town to figure out if it was from town me or scum me.

And I didn't commit a fallacy fallacy. I didn't say since your read is bad it's wrong. I know it's wrong - but that's irrelevant since the rest of town can't know it. But that doesn't make such a read not bad. What I said was for this reason that If you're town, your confidence is misplaced so I hope you will not base the rest of your today's reads based on an assumption that I will flip red cause that will be a waste of time.

wtf is this post?

wtf is this post asking wtf is my post?

the first paragraph is missing the point (as i see it at least). i think he was scumreading you because of how you would qualify a lot of your reads with statements about how maybe they're actually town. not that you were pushing a bunch of people. and then the statement about how it's up to the town to figure out if you are town or not is very vacuous. a lot of your statements seem to not actually say much.

and, then i just had a hard time processing the rest of it.

i'm not scumreading you ftr. you have an unusual way of posting and i'll need to spend more time figuring you out.

(i am currently at the end of page 6)

Aren't you saying the same thing? That I was bouncing on multiple people and stating what I like and don't like at the very start of game? I did that to start actual alignment indicative arguments.

He was saying I used a fallacy fallacy to refute his reasoning. I said I didn't even try to refute his reasoning as it's true. I was exactly doing that and it's on the rest of town to figure out my intentions from doing it.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

"Kyoko is desprately trying to have a scum read" was the reasoning. I was desperately trying to get to a place where I could judge content to sort them.

"with the knowledge that everyone they sr is town." This is what they concluded with that reasoning which I know is wrong but any other Town player can't be sure so I simply can't fight it - besides mentioning the obvious that it's a wrong conclusion.

The second part of that post was me explaining why I even bothered to mention why a part of their read is good and a part is bad. Making an association reads that early in the day can be a dangerous mindset for the town and a strong utility for scum.

pedit: I know that Thanks! As you see I did it when I quoted the first post. Just didn't want the original posts to go missing so the entire conversation is there for people to see

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I never saw anyone posting intent to l-1 before...

wait what?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

ythan is making horsewoman appear towny in page 10

How so? can you elaborate on this one cause I'm reading page 10 and I can't "find" anything relating to what you said here.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Gimli we are townbloc

<bugspray, kyoko>

<ythan>
<datisi>

are varying townreads.

<superbowl, slime>

are nullreads. I liked superbowl's interaction with gamma and I don't think slime showed themselves either way yet. I find it curious that what is supposedly an account made up of more than one player can do so very little, but the way they decided to be obtuse isn't striking me in any direction.

<horsewoman, tris>

are scumreads.

My current stance is sooooo similar to this.

towny --------------------
<bugspray>
<Gimli>
<datisi>
<ythan>
<Superbowl>
<slime>
rather null --------------------
<tris>
<horsewoman>
scummy --------------------

which makes me happier about my own reads

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

slime have you actually read the game?

Yes, I did. And we are still in RVS. People are just guessing each other alignments based on their personality/ writing style/ activity. Yes, you

can

catch scum by that method. As well as by random.org.
-Black

Do you know the probabilistic nature of this game is not going to change in the next days either? just that the probabilities change in a way that it's more likely that your guesses are true. You can nearly never conclude someone is 100% scum. This way of undermining day 1 - when it's arguably the most important phase in-game - to just sit out of it - is just so awful

The issue is I saw this play from a lot of bad town players and a lot of scums before so it's not scummy.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Kyoky here is some detective homework from Bugspray-senpai for after school Micro 988 club: make associative reads about ythan because there's some weird stuff going on there. You don't need to share it I just think your detective mindset will be good for this lateral thinking and the knowledge you obtain will be valuable for helping you personally discover scum and b then you will make both Umulat-sensei and Bugspray-senpai proud

Sure I'll ISO him to see if I can see anything.

I have to go now though. I'll be back in around 2 hours to catch up and do this

pedit: ^.^

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I have to go now though. I'll be back in around 2 hours to catch up and do this

Sorry, I can't catch up tonight

I'm more tired than I was expecting I would be and it seems the game speeded up. I'll be reading the new pages tomorrow

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

No action is by itself a direct or conclusive scum tell unless direct scum claims or actions that are based on elements in-game that change the natural probability assumptions in the game

Yep. They are discussing how to scumhunt and trying to disguise it as scumhunting. Have fun reading!
-Black

How is that trying to disguise it as scum hunting? I have a lot of other posts that are indeed scum hunting and you talk about the one I made on page 2 to explain my playstyle when it was questioned?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Seeking a replacement for Gamma Emerald.

batslime : players
2 : 0
-Black

I dont understand this post

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

@kyoko, do you have reads? now i see you're explaining what you do and don't like in other players, but i'm wondering when/if those translate to a ~read~? mostly asking in reference to the post where you said that not everything you like or don't like translates to a town/scumread

towny --------------------
<bugspray>
<Gimli>
<datisi>
<ythan>
<Superbowl>
<slime>
rather null --------------------
<tris>
<horsewoman>
scummy --------------------

I made this list yesterday without reading your post. I'm catching up on missed pages rn

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

A good way to check associations is to also do combined isos
Check this out:
viewtopic.php?t=85271&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=85271&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=85271&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

So I actually checked these stuff and saw few things that might mean nothing but

1 - gamma never mentioned ythan. seems weird since gamma commented on everyone else.
Ythan mentioned gamma though:

Oh look Gamma posted.

Eh I guess you do have a couple posts with content when I actually go back and look but more fluff.

Can't see any attempt for sorting there however

Tris called ythan town upon entrance too but nothing else posted that is like sorting.

2 - Ythan push on horsewoman seems a bit too harsh too early. I can follow the mindset but it feels like a bit of obsession when they aren't sorting other slots at same time.

3 - I feel like gamma was being really on the surface with their posts - as there is no deep analysis there just some comments about this and that.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I like Tris progressive catch up - their read on horsewoman is also nice but not a new read, it's basically an echo of ythan and my case on horsewoman.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I think if that was really Victor Hugo he would probably actually be pretty good at making cases.

And of course nobody gets the reference.
~batslime

wait how many people are on your acc

victor hugo, black and batslime?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

so, black is here now... this is happening... when?

like i dislike this post because it seems like... way too easy? gives a feeling of picking a random townie who isn't doing much / is kinda yeet-bait who's pushing on their wagon and making a vague "case" on them

Nope it was me. ~ in signature.
Gamma slot is a good case. Pinged me three times scummy. Do you have a better case yourself?
~batslime

what pinged you

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I think we are getting distracted a bunch. Tris, anime Y person, what do you see even remotely towny about slime??

distracted from what? from lynching slime? that was the hot topic there - why you felt people were getting distracted from it?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

why is slime scum

Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?

You're understanding, burden of proof vice versa dear. It's on the rest of the town players to explain why someone is scummy not on people to prove they are town. You're literally saying the fallacy name and doing the fallacy in same post

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

i'm gonna VOTE: horsewoman

This vote happened too late.

I mean for tris

Tris was making cases about horsewoman and put them as their solo scumread and were questioning others to talk about horsewoman. But this vote came later than all those

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

@slimes

what do you think of my slot now that i'm in it?

That mod accidentally sent your wrong, green, PM.
UNVOTE:
~batslime

are you pocketing me lol?

This interaction is interesting. I just can't see two towns having this conversation. Slime has been scum reading gamma for as their only read and back off the moment their replacement defends them and tris distance themselves from this switch when in the same page they were defending the slot with no base.

Getting extreme Scum vibes from this interaction

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Horsewoman. I like push on gamma, since I pushed gamma for the same reason. I don't like the fact that she stopped posting posts with content. I will go with null.
~Batslime

I dont understand this post. Is this some sort of poor pretending that they dont know gamma is replaced right after they unvoting that slot for tris content?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I do like tris's entry into the game. It can be hard for scum to replace in and look like they're genuinely trying to catch up. Tris's entry looks pretty good to me. And she hasn't gone with the easy wagon on Slime and instead she's trying to ask questions and achieve something different, which I like from her (obviously this read is kind of dependent on slime flipping town which might not happen)

Technically it's actually easier for scum to smoothly get into the game as people have reads developed and they can echo them

Maybe that is different player by player (for some its easier as scum for some its easier as town to catch up)

What about tris catchup makes you feel it's genuine and why you're not responding to their case like how you questioned me and ythans read on you? - especially since tris read on you is exactly with same basis

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Slime I'm having positive feelings about your last couple posts.

I agree but this is how I see it: if they were capable of posting this type of stuff earlier, why did they hold off until they were pressured?? It feels so manufactured

I don't think it's even a scum tell to try and change your play when getting pressured. A lot of town, especially newer ones, get incredibly spooked when the votes run up on them.

Agreed, but slime does not read like lazy town who got a fire lit under their butt to me. They read like they were never interested in scum hunting from the beginning, and are now trying to manufacture stuff just to get the wagon off. I mean look at their activity now that the votes to elim them are no longer here. I know apathetic town when i see it

Town players actually do this too. I mean, scumhunting properly is kind of hard lol and getting mislynched feels real bad.

I absolutely get you on it though. I think pressuring slime is a good thing right now because getting him worried enough to actually contribute is always going to be positive in actually being able to sort his actual content.

VOTE: Slime Collective in order to get him back to l-1

are you literally saying he can be town and then voting him on the same post claiming it's for pressuring him? What kind of fake pressure is this?

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

why is slime scum

Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?

You're understanding, burden of proof vice versa dear. It's on the rest of the town players to explain why someone is scummy not on people to prove they are town. You're literally saying the fallacy name and doing the fallacy in same post

Nah you’re wrong, if I don’t provide any content helpful to town and the game has been running for days, am I towny then in your eyes? The burden is on every player to provide towny content - that’s my first BOP point here. It follows that to have a non-scumread on a player, they must have made positive contributions to the game.

I didn't say you're wrong - It's correct that people should create confidence for rest that they are town by solving game BUT

I'm saying you're using "burden of proof" wrong and what you say is faulty in logic: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim and is not upon anyone else to disprove. When you say they are scum (even if you just do it with a vote) you must provide evidence for your case - it's not on them to disprove it and it's on you to prove it.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

that's because i wanted to read horsewoman's iso before i placed a vote on her. what do you mean by too late? do you think it's scummy that i did that?

I just find it interesting that you did it 1.5 pages later after you were asking slime about it.

It just felt you suddenly remembered you should vote for the person you're making a case about.

I don't find the actual action scummy. It's just a behavior that stood out for me. I think that might be in correlation with your defending slime slot though and this relationship feels alarming - a tiny bit - I guess

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

I think we are getting distracted a bunch. Tris, anime Y person, what do you see even remotely towny about slime??

distracted from what? from lynching slime? that was the hot topic there - why you felt people were getting distracted from it?

Yes. At that time gamma’s vote replaced out and iirc bugspray moved off? So we essentially lost the wagon on that slot without them really doing anything productive. The whole momentum of the game was shifting away from a slime wagon, which wasn’t good.

ok, this makes sense. I just think the momentum of pressure on the gamma slot was lost not the wagon on slime.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

Thanks for hosting the game @Umlaut !

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

@Bugspray Just one thing and I hope you're not offended. Please don't post these in middle of game:

@mod can i get that personal pt i asked you for in a pm?

It's so fucking frustrating that slime would have been force replaced if we didn't elim them and I thought that it was likely to happen but wasn't allowed to say anything because of rule 2

Like, I feel like the integrity of this game has been compromised by a rule meant to preserve the integrity of the game because there was a more to my wincon thing I could have said but wasn't allowed to. Are we just supposed to pretend that replaces don't affect games?

I mean - you're bringing extra information in-game to make people town read you but it hurts the integrity of the game.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

On both day 1 and day 2 hammers happened before giving a chance to claim and both times a power role was lynched. The thing is town power roles are also more informed and that can also vibe scummy to the rest of town as they don't want to be the kill - so it's not a surprise they were both top suspects. The issue is with the speed. Conversations must be built that can direct the game. otherwise, the result will be always in favor of scum as they have a narrative to push when the town is clueless.

Regardless scum played way better than the town in this game and the win was well deserved.

[Kyoko Kirigiri~]

this game was dumb
Kyoko lmk if you wanna play another game with me sometime. Ythan too I guess, though you’re a little easier to find

Yeah maybe later.

Thanks!