Micro 988: 09:12 [Game Over]

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #10 (isolation #0) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:26 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

Hi. First game here, lets make it a good one.

VOTE: ythan
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Post Post #16 (isolation #1) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:06 pm

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it didn't feel random? obviously it was a random joke vote in response to ythan's comment.
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Post Post #18 (isolation #2) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:10 pm

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well you also clearly interpreted it that way in post 13. i'm confident because i can read cues?
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Post Post #26 (isolation #3) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:16 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

yeah, kyoko's posting is very dumb

is it scum? probably not, it's a mildly town thing to do to get the game out of RVS and create content, even if that content is very dumb
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Post Post #28 (isolation #4) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:18 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

i apologise if that looked like a personal attack. i don't even think your posts came from a place of being dumb, i think you were just grasping for something to move out of RVS with. which as i said is a good and mildly town thing to do.
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Post Post #34 (isolation #5) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:48 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

no i demand the most solid reads, any incorrect readers on page 1 will be executed.
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Post Post #37 (isolation #6) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:33 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

I obviously don't know you as a person. But that post reads like an attempt to backtrack for me. You have spent 2 pages explaining why you initially had a scumread based on 'opportunism' and now ypure like 'lol it isnt even a scumtell'
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Post Post #43 (isolation #7) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:15 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

do you have any opinions on anything on this page/since your intial read being odd or alignment indicative?
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Post Post #51 (isolation #8) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:14 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 45, Datisi wrote:the "that's basic scumhunting." line feels a bit... is mockery the right word? i don't think it's alignemnt indicative, my poor hurt ego just wanted to point that out.

i feel like i'm gonna have a hard time reading kyoko this game because my first instincts are to latch onto what appears to be too logic-y and ramble-y, especially without any hard conclusions, and false-positives from such playstyles did sometimes lose me the game. maybe i'll do a metadive at *some* point if i'm not gonna feel too lazy.

vague +town to horsewoman for because ~mindmeld~, that is where my questions were going to lead up to.

by the way, you said it's your first game here, your posts so far make me think you have prior experience, am i correct?
yes i've played forum mafia before
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Post Post #52 (isolation #9) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:16 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 50, Ythan wrote:
In post 37, Horsewoman wrote:You have spent 2 pages explaining why you initially had a scumread based on 'opportunism' and now ypure like 'lol it isnt even a scumtell'
Let me be more clear, I don't buy this, sell it to me.
She said that she "didn't like" a certain post and defended that position for 2 pages, then said "oh by the way 'didn't like' doesn't mean i scumread him, i just don't like it". I think that's a copout because 'didn't like' does mean a scumread in most people's minds.

But let me personally be clear, my vote isn't on her it's on you, and I'm happy with it where it is in truth.
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Post Post #53 (isolation #10) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:17 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 51, Horsewoman wrote:
In post 45, Datisi wrote:the "that's basic scumhunting." line feels a bit... is mockery the right word? i don't think it's alignemnt indicative, my poor hurt ego just wanted to point that out.

i feel like i'm gonna have a hard time reading kyoko this game because my first instincts are to latch onto what appears to be too logic-y and ramble-y, especially without any hard conclusions, and false-positives from such playstyles did sometimes lose me the game. maybe i'll do a metadive at *some* point if i'm not gonna feel too lazy.

vague +town to horsewoman for because ~mindmeld~, that is where my questions were going to lead up to.

by the way, you said it's your first game here, your posts so far make me think you have prior experience, am i correct?
yes i've played forum mafia before
Not on this website, let me be clear. On another which is now defunct.
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Post Post #55 (isolation #11) » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:51 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

I don't know what you mean by conditioning
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Post Post #57 (isolation #12) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:13 am

Post by Horsewoman »

VOTE: gimli son of gloin bit late to be entering the thread without anything substantive
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Post Post #60 (isolation #13) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:24 am

Post by Horsewoman »

my read on ythan isn't particularly relevant to my read on you (apart from the fact that there are only 2 scum and it's unlikely it's both of you due to him rushing to defend you so early). i was just trying to pressure him.
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Post Post #62 (isolation #14) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:27 am

Post by Horsewoman »

As to ythan i think he's asking a lot of questions but i don't see the thought process behind them or that they're leading anywhere (as they wouldn't, if he were scum). My read may change if that post changes. I also dislike post 38. It very clearly tries to align him in support of you but it doesn't really accomplish anything or add to the conversation - he's just posturing here.
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Post Post #63 (isolation #15) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:28 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 61, Kyoko Kirigiri~ wrote:Why did you dodge answering that question earlier?
because i didn't know what you meant by conditioning, and i still don't. i thought it would help me understand what you were asking if i understood what you are saying.
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Post Post #109 (isolation #16) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:47 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In [url=/viewtopic.php?p=12408172#p12408172]post 75[/url], bugspray wrote:VOTE: kyoko
See scum
Vote scum
Eliminate scum

Kyoko's posts feel like someone who is trying so desperately to have a scum read with the knowledge that everyone they sr is town. A red flip on the slot would also possibly clear horsewoman assuming they aren't doing some wacko SvS thearer.

Also I'm disappointed that nobody is giving be credit for ending rvs on issue
This is really and truly one of the laziest reads Ive seen. Kyoko is kind of playing to a gimmick imo, talking about "piecing together the clues" and everything. Besides i dont know her but i feel like a lot of it is just her personality. As she said earlier in the game (objectively wrong way to play btw) "if i am asked 20 questions i will answer 20 times".


Like i dont actually think this is scumvtown i think its probably town v town. So lynching to POE is a waste of time. You could be trying to set up two mislynches in a row.

[/v] Bugspray[/v]
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Post Post #110 (isolation #17) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:50 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In [url=/viewtopic.php?p=12408651#p12408651]post 105[/url], Ythan wrote:
In post 57, Horsewoman wrote:VOTE: gimli son of gloin bit late to be entering the thread without anything substantive
That was a quick turnaround.
And?
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Post Post #113 (isolation #18) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:53 am

Post by Horsewoman »

Screwed up the tavs VOTE: bugspray
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Post Post #137 (isolation #19) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:03 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In [url=/viewtopic.php?p=12408781#p12408781]post 128[/url], bugspray wrote:I'm really confused as to why horsewoman said my interactions with anyone avatar roleplay person whose name I don't remember were tvt and then try to vote me in the same post.
It seems increasingly likely that anime person's plsystyle just appears scummy and my read is technically incorrect even if the reasoning behind it is correct.

The Superbowl progression is wack and the reason I didn't comment on the slot before is because in non stagnant games I view it as a waste of my energy to read someone off of one post when they are likely to have a lot more posts on the next 24h

I bet the gimli player has a H*lu subscription
I meant my own reactions with her were tvt. You said that if you lynch her and shes scum im likely town. But im saying we are both town. Never said you were. Actually the opposite.
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Post Post #138 (isolation #20) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:04 am

Post by Horsewoman »

Bugsprays read on ythan is about where im at too though atm
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Post Post #145 (isolation #21) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:55 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In [url=/viewtopic.php?p=12409147#p12409147]post 142[/url], superbowl9 wrote:Also horsewoman i would like to work with you on bugspray ideally so can you tell me why (if you are) you're TRing them (or at least not SRing them)
Im not as i said im scumreading bugspray, thats why im voting for him
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Post Post #146 (isolation #22) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:56 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In [url=/viewtopic.php?p=12409032#p12409032]post 139[/url], Ythan wrote:
In post 138, Horsewoman wrote:Bugsprays read on ythan is about where im at too though atm
You're gonna need to elaborate if this is legit.
I initially read you as scummy because your posts dont lead anywhere. You are asking questions and looking busy but youre not doing anything more. But some people play that way.
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Post Post #164 (isolation #23) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:17 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In [url=/viewtopic.php?p=12409541#p12409541]post 150[/url], bugspray wrote:
In post 145, Horsewoman wrote:
In [url=/viewtopic.php?p=12409147#p12409147]post 142[/url], superbowl9 wrote:Also horsewoman i would like to work with you on bugspray ideally so can you tell me why (if you are) you're TRing them (or at least not SRing them)
Im not as i said im scumreading bugspray, thats why im voting for him
my pronouns are they/them. it's right there next to my avatar and in my signature. i get misgendered every fucking game.

i think confused!horsewoman that we see in and is more likely to be town
Oh i am very sorry. As a trans woman myself i should know better than this.
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Post Post #165 (isolation #24) » Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:25 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

Gamma Emerald wrote:Horsewoman you’re doing SOMETHING to butcher those quotes. Please fix it.
Sorry I will implement a total and complete shutdown of linking inside quotes until I figure out what's going on.
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Post Post #172 (isolation #25) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:32 am

Post by Horsewoman »

I obviously don't know that you are town, I think you are town based on the posts that you have made? Obviously I know that I am town?

You've really stuck your neck out and are trying really hard, in fact overhard to try and analyze the game. I initially thought that was a scummy thing to do but the more the game goes on the more genuine you read to me. And scum don't tend to get involved in beginning a hard push as you have done very often. It's not a particularly hard or solid read yet. But he was saying "Kyoko could be scum and if so Horsewoman is probably town" as a reason to push/lynch you. And the sort of implication of that is that if you flip town that I might be scum and look worse. So I was saying he was setting up two incorrect votes as if you do flip town, he was sort of laying the groundwork to throw doubt on me.
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Post Post #228 (isolation #26) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:28 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 220, The Slime Collective wrote:Yes. RVS for me means not enough information to create strong reads.
-Black
Going to add my voice to the growing parade of people saying "really? Come on guys".
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Post Post #230 (isolation #27) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:31 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 168, Kyoko Kirigiri~ wrote:Horsewoman is being a little vote happy right now.

First, he pushes Ythan, then FoS me and call me town at the same time back and forth, then gimli over his entrance (literally nothing), then bugspray when their name was also mentioned in that post where bug voted me (associated read)

I don't like this progression
I think Kyoko is kind of either wilfully misinterpreting everything I say and do or is just interpreting it in the most confusing and least charitable way possible because she is hardcore tunneling me for whatever reason. It's silly.

And yes, mafia players often change their votes to apply pressure. I will not keep it in the same place as page 1, sorry.
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Post Post #232 (isolation #28) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:33 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 189, Ythan wrote:(Half assed non committal) Meta is trash. That's for both of you.
I wouldn't say it's trash really but it's difficult to use for people who have never met anyone else that's for sure!
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Post Post #234 (isolation #29) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:36 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 231, Gamma Emerald wrote:
intent to L-1 the slime collective

My gut tells me this sort of non-content is scum indicative.
I don't think this is remotely true? Like scum who have their shit together don't transparently do nothing as Slime is doing, they sort of sneakily do nothing. I don't think inactivity or a lack of contributions is alignment indicative at all. If we can't find a better lynch at the end of the day than "get rid of the guy who isn't doing anything" then sure, but we have time to find something better than that.
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Post Post #237 (isolation #30) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:41 am

Post by Horsewoman »

Sorry for saying 'lynch', it's an old habit. I'll try to say elim more.
In post 198, Datisi wrote:
In post 172, Horsewoman wrote:But they were saying "Kyoko could be scum and if so Horsewoman is probably town" as a reason to push/lynch you.
And the sort of implication of that is that if you flip town that I might be scum and look worse. So I was saying they were setting up two incorrect votes as if you do flip town, they were sort of laying the groundwork to throw doubt on me.
i don't like the bolded?

like in bugs was saying that "if kyoko red then horsewoman probably green"? how does that imply "if kyoko green then horsewoman red"?
From a formal logic perspective obviously it doesn't imply that. But come on, when you're associating two people and their alignment by saying 'this guy's alignment is related to this other guy' that sort of makes that implication imo. But maybe I read to much into it, whatever.

I do think datisi does read like an unbiased contributor and is probably one of the most useful pro-town players here for me right now. Adding my voice to that chorus I guess. Although I don't really know how to TR people (a little better at SRing people but not much ;) )
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Post Post #245 (isolation #31) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:46 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 197, Ythan wrote:
In post 148, Ythan wrote:
In post 146, Horsewoman wrote:
In [url=/viewtopic.php?p=12409032#p12409032]post 139[/url], Ythan wrote:
In post 138, Horsewoman wrote:Bugsprays read on ythan is about where im at too though atm
You're gonna need to elaborate if this is legit.
I initially read you as scummy because your posts dont lead anywhere. You are asking questions and looking busy but youre not doing anything more. But some people play that way.
And Bugspray said that where?
Huh I guess this never got answered.
Oh I was referring to post 128 when they said that 'anime person' had a playstyle that appeared scummy but was probably just town. I thought they were referring to you.

Also like, sorry for not reading your every post and answering your multitudinous questions (that lead nowhere) quickly enough? Both inside and outside of this game I have more useful things to do.
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Post Post #254 (isolation #32) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:55 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 251, Gamma Emerald wrote:with the fact bugspray was just there and I have intented, TSC has 5 people against them rn
are you trying to get them to claim? Are you trying to get them to claim without actually asking them to claim? Are you trying to lynch them here and now?
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Post Post #262 (isolation #33) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:02 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 260, Ythan wrote:You haven't given me a satisfactory answer once. And idk what you mean by quickly enough like you're waiting to actually account for yourself.
I think you're tunneling me hard enough that almost no answer I could give you would be satisfactory.
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Post Post #265 (isolation #34) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:08 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 263, Ythan wrote:See you could have used that time to answer a single question.
I literally did answer your most recent question, accurately explaining my thought process to you. I don't know what more you want from me.
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Post Post #266 (isolation #35) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:09 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 245 I literally answered your question. Please stop getting incredibly tilted at me for answering all of your questions in a way that you find unsatisfactory. You're welcome to find my answers unsatisfactory but they are there.
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Post Post #268 (isolation #36) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:11 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 264, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 254, Horsewoman wrote:
In post 251, Gamma Emerald wrote:with the fact bugspray was just there and I have intented, TSC has 5 people against them rn
are you trying to get them to claim? Are you trying to get them to claim without actually asking them to claim? Are you trying to lynch them here and now?
I’m letting them know the stakes.
That's not an answer at all. You're being ridiculously noncommital here despite trying to appear like you're actually pushing TSC.

Do you want to lynch them or not? Do you want them to claim or not? I have specifically said that I don't want to lynch them right now, you have to be open about what you're trying to do.
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Post Post #270 (isolation #37) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:24 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

crap said it again. sorry!
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Post Post #281 (isolation #38) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:55 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

can't you play chess in the actual subforum that exists for chess
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Post Post #282 (isolation #39) » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:56 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

also trying to resist the yolo hammer.
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Post Post #453 (isolation #40) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:24 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 371, Gimli wrote:
In post 344, bugspray wrote:
In post 341, The Slime Collective wrote:
In post 231, Gamma Emerald wrote:My gut tells me this sort of non-content is scum indicative.
Which sort of non-content do you not find scum indicative?
-Black
I think quoting a player who replaced out with a direct question that plenty of people have already answered before might make people have serious concerns about your alignment
Yup, I think this is scumtelling. the new player was posting in the current page so there's no way slime didn't see that, which means he probably asked a question knowing he'll only get an answer after the game is over. also the question itself was leading nowhere surely.
aha you've made a critical mistake....assuming players ever read anything.

okay you guys made like 7 new pages so I will read them now!
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Post Post #454 (isolation #41) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:27 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 420, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 406, tris wrote:why is slime scum
Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?
Wow! What a shockingly bad post. There are 7 town and 2 scum, it's obviously on the people trying to lynch someone to try and prove that that person is scum, not the opposite.
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Post Post #455 (isolation #42) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:31 am

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I do like tris's entry into the game. It can be hard for scum to replace in and look like they're genuinely trying to catch up. Tris's entry looks pretty good to me. And she hasn't gone with the easy wagon on Slime and instead she's trying to ask questions and achieve something different, which I like from her (obviously this read is kind of dependent on slime flipping town which might not happen)
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Post Post #456 (isolation #43) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:33 am

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In post 447, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 445, Ythan wrote:Slime I'm having positive feelings about your last couple posts.
I agree but this is how I see it: if they were capable of posting this type of stuff earlier, why did they hold off until they were pressured?? It feels so manufactured
I don't think it's even a scum tell to try and change your play when getting pressured. A lot of town, especially newer ones, get incredibly spooked when the votes run up on them.
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Post Post #457 (isolation #44) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:35 am

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 440, The Slime Collective wrote:Horsewoman. I like push on gamma, since I pushed gamma for the same reason. I don't like the fact that she stopped posting posts with content. I will go with null.
~Batslime
i literally never pushed gamma, or voted for gamma. I did try to get him to actually do stuff (which he reacted to with one of the most awful although not scummy or towny replace-outs ever). Also you didn't push gamma and the assertion coming from you that you don't like people stopping posting content is literally laughable.
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Post Post #459 (isolation #45) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:38 am

Post by Horsewoman »

Should I YOLOhammer here post 440 (TSC's only substantive post) is real bad.
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Post Post #461 (isolation #46) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:44 am

Post by Horsewoman »

yeah good thinking
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Post Post #469 (isolation #47) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:47 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 467, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 454, Horsewoman wrote:
In post 420, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 406, tris wrote:why is slime scum
Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?
Wow! What a shockingly bad post. There are 7 town and 2 scum, it's obviously on the people trying to lynch someone to try and prove that that person is scum, not the opposite.
No, that’s not how this works. When you say you don’t think someone is scum, you need to have a reason for it. Sure, POE is a reason. Gut is a reason. But you can’t just simply assume people are town from the outset until they do something scummy, that would be a naive game approach.
But you can't just lynch anybody you don't have strong reasons to townread. Otherwise I'd want to lynch almost all of you.

(my only good townreads rn are datisti, tris and kyoko - but that means I want to try and sort everyone else, not lynch 5 of you)
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Post Post #470 (isolation #48) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:49 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 468, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 456, Horsewoman wrote:
In post 447, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 445, Ythan wrote:Slime I'm having positive feelings about your last couple posts.
I agree but this is how I see it: if they were capable of posting this type of stuff earlier, why did they hold off until they were pressured?? It feels so manufactured
I don't think it's even a scum tell to try and change your play when getting pressured. A lot of town, especially newer ones, get incredibly spooked when the votes run up on them.
Agreed, but slime does not read like lazy town who got a fire lit under their butt to me. They read like they were never interested in scum hunting from the beginning, and are now trying to manufacture stuff just to get the wagon off. I mean look at their activity now that the votes to elim them are no longer here. I know apathetic town when i see it
Town players actually do this too. I mean, scumhunting properly is kind of hard lol and getting mislynched feels real bad.

I absolutely get you on it though. I think pressuring slime is a good thing right now because getting him worried enough to actually contribute is always going to be positive in actually being able to sort his actual content.

VOTE: Slime Collective in order to get him back to l-1
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Post Post #473 (isolation #49) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:16 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 471, bugspray wrote:
In post 469, Horsewoman wrote:
In post 467, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 454, Horsewoman wrote:
In post 420, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 406, tris wrote:why is slime scum
Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?
Wow! What a shockingly bad post. There are 7 town and 2 scum, it's obviously on the people trying to lynch someone to try and prove that that person is scum, not the opposite.
No, that’s not how this works. When you say you don’t think someone is scum, you need to have a reason for it. Sure, POE is a reason. Gut is a reason. But you can’t just simply assume people are town from the outset until they do something scummy, that would be a naive game approach.
But you can't just lynch anybody you don't have strong reasons to townread. Otherwise I'd want to lynch almost all of you.
I think it's absolutely fine to elim if you have few reasons to tr the slot and many good reasons to sr the slot
yeah the second part about having good reasons to sr the slot is the best reason to Eliminate lol.
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Post Post #475 (isolation #50) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:17 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 474, bugspray wrote:
In post 51, Horsewoman wrote:yes i've played forum mafia before
where did you play it before and how much experience did you have?
On a really small and now defunct forum about magic cards. It was disconnected from what could be called the mafiascum 'meta' and there were some notable differences (day phases were usually 3 days, for example). I played many games there but notably there were only one or two games at once.
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Post Post #476 (isolation #51) » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:21 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

I also never claimed to be good (I wasn't and I'm not). I can't link you to anything because the servers are down and anything.
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Post Post #529 (isolation #52) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:11 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 523, bugspray wrote:i'm a bit worried because assuming slime!scum where's the counterwagon?
it has to be the horsewoman pushes, right? i mean i suppose it's there but i'd sort of expect more
maybe scum just sort of mutually gave up on that
I mean there's only two scum right. Slime isn't counterweagoning anyone and the other scum could also be one of the more ineffective/inactive players.

This is not to say that I do think slime is scum, also I haven't read the last five pages, I'm now onto it now.
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Post Post #530 (isolation #53) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:15 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 510, tris wrote:i concur with kyoko that i want horsewoman to react to my pushing on her.
I said I liked your entry into the game and that your read on me felt authentic. Obviously your read on me is wrong. I don't know what else to say - your reasons for scumreading on me I have usually been over pages ago with other people.
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Post Post #531 (isolation #54) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:18 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 526, superbowl9 wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 514, Kyoko Kirigiri~ wrote:
In post 511, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 500, Kyoko Kirigiri~ wrote:
In post 420, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 406, tris wrote:why is slime scum
Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?
You're understanding, burden of proof vice versa dear. It's on the rest of the town players to explain why someone is scummy not on people to prove they are town. You're literally saying the fallacy name and doing the fallacy in same post :lol:
Nah you’re wrong, if I don’t provide any content helpful to town and the game has been running for days, am I towny then in your eyes? The burden is on every player to provide towny content - that’s my first BOP point here. It follows that to have a non-scumread on a player, they must have made positive contributions to the game.
I didn't say you're wrong - It's correct that people should create confidence for rest that they are town by solving game BUT

I'm saying you're using "burden of proof" wrong and what you say is faulty in logic: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim and is not upon anyone else to disprove. When you say they are scum (even if you just do it with a vote) you must provide evidence for your case - it's not on them to disprove it and it's on you to prove it.

Yes lol this is what you are wrong on! You've fallen for the BOP shift that tris made here. Correct, if I'm trying to make an argument that slime is scum I have BOP. That's not what this conversation was about though - tris tried to shift the conversation to this argument and give me BOP. I responded by calling out this BOP shift and asking why slime is town, which is really what we are evaluating (the argument isn't that slime has been actively posting scummy things, but that they have been avoiding posting actively town things).

I'll put it in a manner that I think your type of mindset may understand more easily. Any
positive
claim carries with it a burden of proof. If one makes a
negative
claim, such as "unicorns do not exist", they have no burden of proof: it would fall on someone who would posit the positive claim that unicorns DO exist. My claim (and first premise towards my ultimate conclusion) is a negative one: slime has no town positive content. From this premise, combined with the premise that those who do not post actively towny content within page 17 of a game are likely to be scum, the conclusion follows that slime is likely to be scum. Instead of disputing one of these assumptions, Tris reframes the argument. Do you see how you're misinterpreting BOP here?
I would like to note that scum fucking love arguments about the burden of proof and theory and spending time on that rather than like, trying to lynch people. Maybe that's hypocritical coming from me because I haven't really pushed anyone for a while but I really think this is a scummy sort of vibe. At least from your side (tris has contributed a lot more to the game and for kyoko it's just her personality/style)
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Post Post #532 (isolation #55) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:21 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

I also doubt he's bussing because bussing in a micro is pretty dumb in general. And it's actually the lazier/more scummy-appearing thing to do to push slime. I really do hate associative reads like this especially on day one, but I think if superbowl is scum that's a pretty good reason for me not to hammer slime here.
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Post Post #533 (isolation #56) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:26 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 420, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 406, tris wrote:why is slime scum
Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?
In post 403, superbowl9 wrote:I think we are getting distracted a bunch. Tris, anime Y person, what do you see even remotely towny about slime??
In post 402, superbowl9 wrote:Yeah slime is just scum here. Not sure what they did to shake off L-1 with what seemed like intent but they should be there again. I was gonna respond to stuff but my mobile quotes werent working so ill do it when i get on my computer
In post 286, superbowl9 wrote:Just to let yall know I got burned from not policying a quickhammer last game so I will be pushing for a policy on anyone who tries it
In post 280, superbowl9 wrote:
Spoiler:

Glad mod appreciates a good caro-kann
In post 276, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 272, bugspray wrote:wait did i fucking say c6 because that is fucking dumb i deadass meant c5 i play the SICILIAN takeback too c5 if i can otherwise i guess d5 and we have a jank positoon
LOL thats what I figured... so c5d6? In that case I'll play d4
In post 275, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 257, bugspray wrote:Ok someone actually put them at l1 or I'm gonna do it
do it
In post 274, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 255, Datisi wrote:
In post 250, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 247, Datisi wrote:
In post 236, superbowl9 wrote:I would never do that to you datasty!

This makes sense, ftr I do not think that voteswitching by itself is scummy, it can have town and scum motivations. Was just genuinely curious as to your motive, which seems positive.
:cry:

but!! you said you got pinged!! i was the next scumhunting stop!! now you're saying you were just genuinely curious!! is this a *gasp* contradiction!?!?!

ok fine. i feel like i had something else to ask you but i do not remember right now, it's late
Yes I got a ping, investigated it, and it turned up good. Wouldn't it be more sus if every time I thought I saw a small scummy thing I found scum?
i hope it is clear by my usage of sound effects and punctuation that that was not a serious +scum point for you

my brain is telling me "wow that's awfully? preemptively? defensive? scared scum???" but my gut is whispering
"being defensive is not a scumtell, you fool"
Oh I thought you were like making a half-serious point, my b
In post 273, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 254, Horsewoman wrote:
In post 251, Gamma Emerald wrote:with the fact bugspray was just there and I have intented, TSC has 5 people against them rn
are you trying to get them to claim? Are you trying to get them to claim without actually asking them to claim? Are you trying to
lynch
them here and now?
That was a quick turnaround :lol:
In post 252, superbowl9 wrote:
Spoiler: my reads
In post 431, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 430, Ythan wrote:Superb we vibin
:cool:
In post 434, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 432, Ythan wrote:Wait is it Super Bowl or Superb Owl I thought I was being clever.
Hell some call it soup bowl so it is what you want it to be
In post 472, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 469, Horsewoman wrote:
In post 467, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 454, Horsewoman wrote:
In post 420, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 406, tris wrote:why is slime scum
Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?
Wow! What a shockingly bad post. There are 7 town and 2 scum, it's obviously on the people trying to lynch someone to try and prove that that person is scum, not the opposite.
No, that’s not how this works. When you say you don’t think someone is scum, you need to have a reason for it. Sure, POE is a reason. Gut is a reason. But you can’t just simply assume people are town from the outset until they do something scummy, that would be a naive game approach.
But you can't just lynch anybody you don't have strong reasons to townread. Otherwise I'd want to lynch almost all of you.

(my only good townreads rn are datisti, tris and kyoko - but that means I want to try and sort everyone else, not lynch 5 of you)
True, but you do push them - even if you don't want an elim the only way to pressure people is to act like you want to
In post 509, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 499, Kyoko Kirigiri~ wrote:
In post 403, superbowl9 wrote:I think we are getting distracted a bunch. Tris, anime Y person, what do you see even remotely towny about slime??
distracted from what? from lynching slime? that was the hot topic there - why you felt people were getting distracted from it?
Yes. At that time gamma’s vote replaced out and iirc bugspray moved off? So we essentially lost the wagon on that slot without them really doing anything productive. The whole momentum of the game was shifting away from a slime wagon, which wasn’t good.
In post 511, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 500, Kyoko Kirigiri~ wrote:
In post 420, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 406, tris wrote:why is slime scum
Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?
You're understanding, burden of proof vice versa dear. It's on the rest of the town players to explain why someone is scummy not on people to prove they are town. You're literally saying the fallacy name and doing the fallacy in same post :lol:
Nah you’re wrong, if I don’t provide any content helpful to town and the game has been running for days, am I towny then in your eyes? The burden is on every player to provide towny content - that’s my first BOP point here. It follows that to have a non-scumread on a player, they must have made positive contributions to the game.
In post 526, superbowl9 wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 514, Kyoko Kirigiri~ wrote:
In post 511, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 500, Kyoko Kirigiri~ wrote:
In post 420, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 406, tris wrote:why is slime scum
Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?
You're understanding, burden of proof vice versa dear. It's on the rest of the town players to explain why someone is scummy not on people to prove they are town. You're literally saying the fallacy name and doing the fallacy in same post :lol:
Nah you’re wrong, if I don’t provide any content helpful to town and the game has been running for days, am I towny then in your eyes? The burden is on every player to provide towny content - that’s my first BOP point here. It follows that to have a non-scumread on a player, they must have made positive contributions to the game.
I didn't say you're wrong - It's correct that people should create confidence for rest that they are town by solving game BUT

I'm saying you're using "burden of proof" wrong and what you say is faulty in logic: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim and is not upon anyone else to disprove. When you say they are scum (even if you just do it with a vote) you must provide evidence for your case - it's not on them to disprove it and it's on you to prove it.

Yes lol this is what you are wrong on! You've fallen for the BOP shift that tris made here. Correct, if I'm trying to make an argument that slime is scum I have BOP. That's not what this conversation was about though - tris tried to shift the conversation to this argument and give me BOP. I responded by calling out this BOP shift and asking why slime is town, which is really what we are evaluating (the argument isn't that slime has been actively posting scummy things, but that they have been avoiding posting actively town things).

I'll put it in a manner that I think your type of mindset may understand more easily. Any
positive
claim carries with it a burden of proof. If one makes a
negative
claim, such as "unicorns do not exist", they have no burden of proof: it would fall on someone who would posit the positive claim that unicorns DO exist. My claim (and first premise towards my ultimate conclusion) is a negative one: slime has no town positive content. From this premise, combined with the premise that those who do not post actively towny content within page 17 of a game are likely to be scum, the conclusion follows that slime is likely to be scum. Instead of disputing one of these assumptions, Tris reframes the argument. Do you see how you're misinterpreting BOP here?
Look at this ISO (this isn't all of super's posts) - none of this is content. The only content superbowl has provided this whole game is pushing slime pretty hard after other people already started doing it. A lot of jokes/literal chess games/wrangling about the burden of proof. And his questions, such as they are, are pretty artificial. Often just asking why people aren't voting slime - which is facially fine - but it looks like super's reached a predetermined outcome rather than searching for anything. Like superbowl's content is not a huge sight better than slime's content, but superbowl has been doing it in a much shadier way to me.

VOTE: Superbowl9
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Post Post #539 (isolation #57) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:40 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 536, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 528, tris wrote:"The Slime Collective is scum" is a positive claim. one which of course can be supported by argument that they aren't making town content. in which case that would the answer to the question "why is The Slime Collective scum?"
^Perfect example of my point. Slime is scum is not my premise, but my conclusion.

Your argument goes something like:
P1. Slime collective has no scummy content
P2. Players who have no scummy content are likely scum
C1. Slime collective is not likely scum

Besides being a totally different argument to the one we were having, I dispute both premises here. I decided to dispute the one I think is more easily realizable as false, P2, since absence of scum content does not always make someone less scummy, especially when they have no town content. So I pointed out that I disagree with both of your premises, but also pointed out that this SEPARATE argument doesn't address my first posited argument. We are getting into the weeds with this just for me to prove my point, so if you could just take the L here so we can move on that would be great.
oh my god totally separate from your alignment here be quiet
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Post Post #540 (isolation #58) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:41 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

"if you could just take the L here so we could move on" we've got a real Ben Shapiro here chief.
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Post Post #541 (isolation #59) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:43 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 538, bugspray wrote:if slime flips red horse by association would taste pretty good tomorrow (assuming we are cannibals)
God I was like 2 percent of my brain away from posting a gif that said 'you wanna make a bet you jerks' and then quickhammering.
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Post Post #542 (isolation #60) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:45 pm

Post by Horsewoman »

In post 537, superbowl9 wrote: I'd love to see the content you've produced that even sniffs the game impact I've had
Sorry guess Im owned
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Post Post #543 (isolation #61) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:49 pm

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No but in all seriousness, superbowl is correct that he 'took kyoko's side' in an argument and then started a really limp-wristed push on bugspray that he didn't really take anywhere. he's also spent the most recent time trying to own people with theory facts in logic instead of doing anything.

Like I really hesitate to say 'defensiveness=scummy" because that's blatantly untrue. But his response in 537 is kind of ridiculously over the top. Like aside from trying to own me by saying my content doesn't even sniff his game impact (lol), his justifications aren't even good. He hasn't been scumhunting this game beyond the most facetious way.
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Post Post #545 (isolation #62) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:21 pm

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In post 544, superbowl9 wrote:Lol I’m not trying to “own” anyone, hardline rhetoric just makes people respect your content more.
Oh my god you actually are ben shapiro
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Post Post #546 (isolation #63) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:26 pm

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According to your own defense of your content, you have so far
1. 'Agreed with Kyoko' on a silly page 2 argument
2. Pushed bugspray mildly 3 days ago (this did not go anywhere)
3. Agreed with others voting slime and pushed him somewhat

None of that shows a genuine attempt at scumhunting. If you ISO me you'll find a wide variety of actually trying to offer my opinions and reads on the game.
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Post Post #548 (isolation #64) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:35 pm

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I'm sorry about using the word 'lynch' to refer to eliminations, I'm trying to do better but I've never seen it called by any other name. The more I play mafia on this site, the better I'll be at it.

Hey, why don't you respond to my criticisms on this page by actually trying to read players in this game? Like what the hell are your thoughts on whether I'm scum, I don't even know. What are your thoughts on kyoko? What are your thoughts on all the other people you've been arguing facts and logic about?
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Post Post #550 (isolation #65) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:38 pm

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In post 547, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 545, Horsewoman wrote:
In post 544, superbowl9 wrote:Lol I’m not trying to “own” anyone, hardline rhetoric just makes people respect your content more.
Oh my god you actually are ben shapiro
LOL I think you have an impression of me as this logic debatelord which is not how I usually play. Kyoko brought out the knowyourfallacy website and I know the best way to get to that type is through this type of speaking, and I've been kinda railroaded the past two games for being too passive so I'm being more assertive. Comparing me to ben shapiro makes me want to vomit, especially from someone who will not stop using the L word.
I don't think you're politically like ol' Benny (which is a good thing). I do think making posts like "We are getting into the weeds with this just for me to prove my point, so if you could just take the L here so we can move on that would be great." or "show me what you've done that even approaches my level of content" is really condescending and 'debate me' style. But I'm glad it's just you trying out a new playstyle.
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Post Post #552 (isolation #66) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:41 pm

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In post 549, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 546, Horsewoman wrote:According to your own defense of your content, you have so far
1. 'Agreed with Kyoko' on a silly page 2 argument
2. Pushed bugspray mildly 3 days ago (this did not go anywhere)
3. Agreed with others voting slime and pushed him somewhat

None of that shows a genuine attempt at scumhunting. If you ISO me you'll find a wide variety of actually trying to offer my opinions and reads on the game.
I mean you just listed what I've done to scumhunt with words like silly, mild, and somewhat to water it down. If anything that's more than you simply "offering opinions", no?

Pedit: I don't think you are very scummy ATM, but your push on me has lessened your towncred a bit. Kyoko I've townread since the beginning of the game. Tris does have some slime partner equity but that's for tomorrow. I've already said most of that
Okay, delete the adjectives of commentary. In two of those things you're just following other people and in the third one you did almost nothing to actually further that push at any point. I also note that in this whole drawn-out argument you still haven't really responded by actually analyzing the game, offering opinions on the game, trying to create content within the confines of scumhunting. I just want you to focus on that instead of owning people in all your future posts. I just think it's really hard for you to do that because you're scum.
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Post Post #553 (isolation #67) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:42 pm

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In post 551, superbowl9 wrote:Either way slime is the one on the chopping block here, so the more we are chasing around with people actively contributing anyways the more they can sit back and try to let town self-destruct. If they don't post tomorrow we should hammer
Imo it'd probably be better to just wait for a replacement if they straight up flake. If they prodge or post a joke or something I agree that hammering is probably the best option (but it's one I don't really want to go to because I still don't think slime is the best use of our elimination).
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Post Post #564 (isolation #68) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:41 pm

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In post 561, superbowl9 wrote:
In post 560, superbowl9 wrote:Was that a hammer?
Nope
it was a hammer right? the last vote count has TSC on 4 votes not including tris, and i don't see any unvotes.
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Post Post #565 (isolation #69) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:47 pm

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905 xure it was hammer
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Post Post #567 (isolation #70) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:11 pm

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I'll answer that question but seriously was it hammer
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Post Post #571 (isolation #71) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:21 pm

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Oh wait jk its not hammer because I changed my vote to superbowl lol, currently both myself and TSC are on 3 votes (after tris changed hers)
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Post Post #572 (isolation #72) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:25 pm

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In post 566, tris wrote:
In post 559, tris wrote:
In post 530, Horsewoman wrote:
In post 510, tris wrote:i concur with kyoko that i want horsewoman to react to my pushing on her.
I said I liked your entry into the game and that your read on me felt authentic. Obviously your read on me is wrong. I don't know what else to say - your reasons for scumreading on me I have usually been over pages ago with other people.
ok, i should probably ask some specific questions then
ok, so at what point did you change your stance on kyoko and how did that happen?
and, why did you initially think that kyoko's explanations were a copout? could you break that down a little more?
So I explained the second one to death. Kyoko spent ages explaining why she didn't like a thing and then turned up out of nowhere saying "by the way when I don't like a thing that doesn't mean I'm saying it's alignment indicative". It felt at the time like she was trying to back out in a weird way to me. But also that was page two.

I changed my mind after I kind of re-evaluated, saw that kyoko's tone was consistent all the way through, observed some good and townie things that she had done (first of all move the game out of RVS), thought her weird tone was as a result of genuinely trying too hard to scumhunt from a town perspective etc. There wasn't a particular time or post that convinced me.
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Post Post #573 (isolation #73) » Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:26 pm

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In post 571, Horsewoman wrote:Oh wait jk its not hammer because I changed my vote to superbowl lol, currently both myself and TSC are on 3 votes (after tris changed hers)
Im actually on two. But yes the day is for sure still ongoing
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Post Post #578 (isolation #74) » Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:32 am

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VOTE: The Slime Collective
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Post Post #600 (isolation #75) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:39 am

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People who look real shitty after the flip: gimli son of gloin, superbowl9.

I really do apologise for the hammer, it was an awful move. Gimlis post convinced me to do it but i should have let the replacement happen (he would have been replaced for inactivity ANYWAY). Even worse luck he was a power role.
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Post Post #601 (isolation #76) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:41 am

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I dont think the people that started the wagonlook bad, after all wagoning a rank inactive is fine play. I think the people who jumped on and tried to finish it look real bad though! Yes i am aware of the irony that i hammered after long opposing the wagon.
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Post Post #604 (isolation #77) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:53 am

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He said that tsc had been posting in other places but not here. Also he gave me the opportunity to hammer by putting them to e - 1 lol.
But dont get me wrong im not blaming gimli for my idiot move. I still think he looks relatively bad though.
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Post Post #606 (isolation #78) » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:56 am

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My action is worse probably but I know my role PM. Also as wifom as this is, scum dont love being the actual hammer on town, mostly.
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Post Post #720 (isolation #79) » Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:30 am

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Gg. I kinda wanted to track gimli on night 1 that wouldve been sick. Never quickhammer
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