Micro 988: 09:12 [Game Over]

[tris]

i'm a bit worried because assuming slime!scum where's the counterwagon?
it has to be the horsewoman pushes, right? i mean i suppose it's there but i'd sort of expect more
maybe scum just sort of mutually gave up on that

at the same time, if they just don't show up, what are we to do.

[superbowl9]

Spoiler:

why is slime scum

Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?

You're understanding, burden of proof vice versa dear. It's on the rest of the town players to explain why someone is scummy not on people to prove they are town. You're literally saying the fallacy name and doing the fallacy in same post

Nah you’re wrong, if I don’t provide any content helpful to town and the game has been running for days, am I towny then in your eyes? The burden is on every player to provide towny content - that’s my first BOP point here. It follows that to have a non-scumread on a player, they must have made positive contributions to the game.

I didn't say you're wrong - It's correct that people should create confidence for rest that they are town by solving game BUT

I'm saying you're using "burden of proof" wrong and what you say is faulty in logic: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim and is not upon anyone else to disprove. When you say they are scum (even if you just do it with a vote) you must provide evidence for your case - it's not on them to disprove it and it's on you to prove it.

Yes lol this is what you are wrong on! You've fallen for the BOP shift that tris made here. Correct, if I'm trying to make an argument that slime is scum I have BOP. That's not what this conversation was about though - tris tried to shift the conversation to this argument and give me BOP. I responded by calling out this BOP shift and asking why slime is town, which is really what we are evaluating (the argument isn't that slime has been actively posting scummy things, but that they have been avoiding posting actively town things).

I'll put it in a manner that I think your type of mindset may understand more easily. Any

positive

claim carries with it a burden of proof. If one makes a

negative

claim, such as "unicorns do not exist", they have no burden of proof: it would fall on someone who would posit the positive claim that unicorns DO exist. My claim (and first premise towards my ultimate conclusion) is a negative one: slime has no town positive content. From this premise, combined with the premise that those who do not post actively towny content within page 17 of a game are likely to be scum, the conclusion follows that slime is likely to be scum. Instead of disputing one of these assumptions, Tris reframes the argument. Do you see how you're misinterpreting BOP here?

[tris]

i just wanted to hear what people's reasons for wanting to yeet slime were

[tris]

"The Slime Collective is scum" is a positive claim. one which of course can be supported by argument that they aren't making town content. in which case that would the answer to the question "why is The Slime Collective scum?"

[Horsewoman]

i'm a bit worried because assuming slime!scum where's the counterwagon?
it has to be the horsewoman pushes, right? i mean i suppose it's there but i'd sort of expect more
maybe scum just sort of mutually gave up on that

I mean there's only two scum right. Slime isn't counterweagoning anyone and the other scum could also be one of the more ineffective/inactive players.

This is not to say that I do think slime is scum, also I haven't read the last five pages, I'm now onto it now.

[Horsewoman]

i concur with kyoko that i want horsewoman to react to my pushing on her.

I said I liked your entry into the game and that your read on me felt authentic. Obviously your read on me is wrong. I don't know what else to say - your reasons for scumreading on me I have usually been over pages ago with other people.

[Horsewoman]

Spoiler:

why is slime scum

Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?

You're understanding, burden of proof vice versa dear. It's on the rest of the town players to explain why someone is scummy not on people to prove they are town. You're literally saying the fallacy name and doing the fallacy in same post

Nah you’re wrong, if I don’t provide any content helpful to town and the game has been running for days, am I towny then in your eyes? The burden is on every player to provide towny content - that’s my first BOP point here. It follows that to have a non-scumread on a player, they must have made positive contributions to the game.

I didn't say you're wrong - It's correct that people should create confidence for rest that they are town by solving game BUT

I'm saying you're using "burden of proof" wrong and what you say is faulty in logic: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim and is not upon anyone else to disprove. When you say they are scum (even if you just do it with a vote) you must provide evidence for your case - it's not on them to disprove it and it's on you to prove it.

Yes lol this is what you are wrong on! You've fallen for the BOP shift that tris made here. Correct, if I'm trying to make an argument that slime is scum I have BOP. That's not what this conversation was about though - tris tried to shift the conversation to this argument and give me BOP. I responded by calling out this BOP shift and asking why slime is town, which is really what we are evaluating (the argument isn't that slime has been actively posting scummy things, but that they have been avoiding posting actively town things).

I'll put it in a manner that I think your type of mindset may understand more easily. Any

positive

claim carries with it a burden of proof. If one makes a

negative

claim, such as "unicorns do not exist", they have no burden of proof: it would fall on someone who would posit the positive claim that unicorns DO exist. My claim (and first premise towards my ultimate conclusion) is a negative one: slime has no town positive content. From this premise, combined with the premise that those who do not post actively towny content within page 17 of a game are likely to be scum, the conclusion follows that slime is likely to be scum. Instead of disputing one of these assumptions, Tris reframes the argument. Do you see how you're misinterpreting BOP here?

I would like to note that scum fucking love arguments about the burden of proof and theory and spending time on that rather than like, trying to lynch people. Maybe that's hypocritical coming from me because I haven't really pushed anyone for a while but I really think this is a scummy sort of vibe. At least from your side (tris has contributed a lot more to the game and for kyoko it's just her personality/style)

[Horsewoman]

I also doubt he's bussing because bussing in a micro is pretty dumb in general. And it's actually the lazier/more scummy-appearing thing to do to push slime. I really do hate associative reads like this especially on day one, but I think if superbowl is scum that's a pretty good reason for me not to hammer slime here.

[Horsewoman]

why is slime scum

Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?

I think we are getting distracted a bunch. Tris, anime Y person, what do you see even remotely towny about slime??

Yeah slime is just scum here. Not sure what they did to shake off L-1 with what seemed like intent but they should be there again. I was gonna respond to stuff but my mobile quotes werent working so ill do it when i get on my computer

Just to let yall know I got burned from not policying a quickhammer last game so I will be pushing for a policy on anyone who tries it

Spoiler:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4
Glad mod appreciates a good caro-kann

wait did i fucking say c6 because that is fucking dumb i deadass meant c5 i play the SICILIAN takeback too c5 if i can otherwise i guess d5 and we have a jank positoon

LOL thats what I figured... so c5d6? In that case I'll play d4

Ok someone actually put them at l1 or I'm gonna do it

do it

I would never do that to you datasty!

This makes sense, ftr I do not think that voteswitching by itself is scummy, it can have town and scum motivations. Was just genuinely curious as to your motive, which seems positive.

but!! you said you got pinged!! i was the next scumhunting stop!! now you're saying you were just genuinely curious!! is this a *gasp* contradiction!?!?!

ok fine. i feel like i had something else to ask you but i do not remember right now, it's late

Yes I got a ping, investigated it, and it turned up good. Wouldn't it be more sus if every time I thought I saw a small scummy thing I found scum?

i hope it is clear by my usage of sound effects and punctuation that that was not a serious +scum point for you

my brain is telling me "wow that's awfully? preemptively? defensive? scared scum???" but my gut is whispering

"being defensive is not a scumtell, you fool"

Oh I thought you were like making a half-serious point, my b

with the fact bugspray was just there and I have intented, TSC has 5 people against them rn

are you trying to get them to claim? Are you trying to get them to claim without actually asking them to claim? Are you trying to

lynch

them here and now?

That was a quick turnaround

Spoiler: my reads

1.e4 c6 2.Nf3

Superb we vibin

Wait is it Super Bowl or Superb Owl I thought I was being clever.

Hell some call it soup bowl so it is what you want it to be

why is slime scum

Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?

Wow! What a shockingly bad post. There are 7 town and 2 scum, it's obviously on the people trying to lynch someone to try and prove that that person is scum, not the opposite.

No, that’s not how this works. When you say you don’t think someone is scum, you need to have a reason for it. Sure, POE is a reason. Gut is a reason. But you can’t just simply assume people are town from the outset until they do something scummy, that would be a naive game approach.

But you can't just lynch anybody you don't have strong reasons to townread. Otherwise I'd want to lynch almost all of you.

(my only good townreads rn are datisti, tris and kyoko - but that means I want to try and sort everyone else, not lynch 5 of you)

True, but you do push them - even if you don't want an elim the only way to pressure people is to act like you want to

I think we are getting distracted a bunch. Tris, anime Y person, what do you see even remotely towny about slime??

distracted from what? from lynching slime? that was the hot topic there - why you felt people were getting distracted from it?

Yes. At that time gamma’s vote replaced out and iirc bugspray moved off? So we essentially lost the wagon on that slot without them really doing anything productive. The whole momentum of the game was shifting away from a slime wagon, which wasn’t good.

why is slime scum

Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?

You're understanding, burden of proof vice versa dear. It's on the rest of the town players to explain why someone is scummy not on people to prove they are town. You're literally saying the fallacy name and doing the fallacy in same post

Nah you’re wrong, if I don’t provide any content helpful to town and the game has been running for days, am I towny then in your eyes? The burden is on every player to provide towny content - that’s my first BOP point here. It follows that to have a non-scumread on a player, they must have made positive contributions to the game.

Spoiler:

why is slime scum

Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?

You're understanding, burden of proof vice versa dear. It's on the rest of the town players to explain why someone is scummy not on people to prove they are town. You're literally saying the fallacy name and doing the fallacy in same post

Nah you’re wrong, if I don’t provide any content helpful to town and the game has been running for days, am I towny then in your eyes? The burden is on every player to provide towny content - that’s my first BOP point here. It follows that to have a non-scumread on a player, they must have made positive contributions to the game.

I didn't say you're wrong - It's correct that people should create confidence for rest that they are town by solving game BUT

I'm saying you're using "burden of proof" wrong and what you say is faulty in logic: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim and is not upon anyone else to disprove. When you say they are scum (even if you just do it with a vote) you must provide evidence for your case - it's not on them to disprove it and it's on you to prove it.

Yes lol this is what you are wrong on! You've fallen for the BOP shift that tris made here. Correct, if I'm trying to make an argument that slime is scum I have BOP. That's not what this conversation was about though - tris tried to shift the conversation to this argument and give me BOP. I responded by calling out this BOP shift and asking why slime is town, which is really what we are evaluating (the argument isn't that slime has been actively posting scummy things, but that they have been avoiding posting actively town things).

I'll put it in a manner that I think your type of mindset may understand more easily. Any

positive

claim carries with it a burden of proof. If one makes a

negative

claim, such as "unicorns do not exist", they have no burden of proof: it would fall on someone who would posit the positive claim that unicorns DO exist. My claim (and first premise towards my ultimate conclusion) is a negative one: slime has no town positive content. From this premise, combined with the premise that those who do not post actively towny content within page 17 of a game are likely to be scum, the conclusion follows that slime is likely to be scum. Instead of disputing one of these assumptions, Tris reframes the argument. Do you see how you're misinterpreting BOP here?

Look at this ISO (this isn't all of super's posts) - none of this is content. The only content superbowl has provided this whole game is pushing slime pretty hard after other people already started doing it. A lot of jokes/literal chess games/wrangling about the burden of proof. And his questions, such as they are, are pretty artificial. Often just asking why people aren't voting slime - which is facially fine - but it looks like super's reached a predetermined outcome rather than searching for anything. Like superbowl's content is not a huge sight better than slime's content, but superbowl has been doing it in a much shadier way to me.

VOTE: Superbowl9

[superbowl9]

Spoiler:

why is slime scum

Nope 17 pages in the burden of proof is on a player to provide town content, not to avoid scummy content. Again what thing even remotely towny do you see in slime's play?

You're understanding, burden of proof vice versa dear. It's on the rest of the town players to explain why someone is scummy not on people to prove they are town. You're literally saying the fallacy name and doing the fallacy in same post

Nah you’re wrong, if I don’t provide any content helpful to town and the game has been running for days, am I towny then in your eyes? The burden is on every player to provide towny content - that’s my first BOP point here. It follows that to have a non-scumread on a player, they must have made positive contributions to the game.

Ah yes, superbowl, the one trying to deflect from talking about elimming people
I didn't say you're wrong - It's correct that people should create confidence for rest that they are town by solving game BUT

I'm saying you're using "burden of proof" wrong and what you say is faulty in logic: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim and is not upon anyone else to disprove. When you say they are scum (even if you just do it with a vote) you must provide evidence for your case - it's not on them to disprove it and it's on you to prove it.

Yes lol this is what you are wrong on! You've fallen for the BOP shift that tris made here. Correct, if I'm trying to make an argument that slime is scum I have BOP. That's not what this conversation was about though - tris tried to shift the conversation to this argument and give me BOP. I responded by calling out this BOP shift and asking why slime is town, which is really what we are evaluating (the argument isn't that slime has been actively posting scummy things, but that they have been avoiding posting actively town things).

I'll put it in a manner that I think your type of mindset may understand more easily. Any

positive

claim carries with it a burden of proof. If one makes a

negative

claim, such as "unicorns do not exist", they have no burden of proof: it would fall on someone who would posit the positive claim that unicorns DO exist. My claim (and first premise towards my ultimate conclusion) is a negative one: slime has no town positive content. From this premise, combined with the premise that those who do not post actively towny content within page 17 of a game are likely to be scum, the conclusion follows that slime is likely to be scum. Instead of disputing one of these assumptions, Tris reframes the argument. Do you see how you're misinterpreting BOP here?

I would like to note that scum fucking love arguments about the burden of proof and theory and spending time on that rather than like, trying to lynch people. Maybe that's hypocritical coming from me because I haven't really pushed anyone for a while but I really think this is a scummy sort of vibe. At least from your side (tris has contributed a lot more to the game and for kyoko it's just her personality/style)

[superbowl9]

Not sure how my text got deleted on that one, but you're seriously arguing that I'm not focusing on elimming someone?? that's all i've been doing for like 3 pages

[superbowl9]

"The Slime Collective is scum" is a positive claim. one which of course can be supported by argument that they aren't making town content. in which case that would the answer to the question "why is The Slime Collective scum?"

^Perfect example of my point. Slime is scum is not my premise, but my conclusion.

Your argument goes something like:
P1. Slime collective has no scummy content
P2. Players who have no scummy content are likely scum
C1. Slime collective is not likely scum

Besides being a totally different argument to the one we were having, I dispute both premises here. I decided to dispute the one I think is more easily realizable as false, P2, since absence of scum content does not always make someone less scummy, especially when they have no town content. So I pointed out that I disagree with both of your premises, but also pointed out that this SEPARATE argument doesn't address my first posited argument. We are getting into the weeds with this just for me to prove my point, so if you could just take the L here so we can move on that would be great.

[superbowl9]

Look at this ISO (this isn't all of super's posts) - none of this is content. The only content superbowl has provided this whole game is pushing slime pretty hard after other people already started doing it. A lot of jokes/literal chess games/wrangling about the burden of proof. And his questions, such as they are, are pretty artificial. Often just asking why people aren't voting slime - which is facially fine - but it looks like super's reached a predetermined outcome rather than searching for anything. Like superbowl's content is not a huge sight better than slime's content, but superbowl has been doing it in a much shadier way to me.

I've helped progress gamestate since my first post. Coming in and supporting kyoko's side of that argument helped spark discussion, then I started a bugspray push, and have currently been the most active lobbyer on slime's wagon, which has generated the majority of recent discussion. You seem to think slime has been my only scumspect this game which really makes me question whether you actually read my ISO - you would've done better here to argue that I'm target switching too much than to argue that I've predetermined today's mislim. I'd love to see the content you've produced that even sniffs the game impact I've had - me and slime are worlds apart. This argument is so disingenuous.

[bugspray]

if slime flips red horse by association would taste pretty good tomorrow (assuming we are cannibals)

[Horsewoman]

"The Slime Collective is scum" is a positive claim. one which of course can be supported by argument that they aren't making town content. in which case that would the answer to the question "why is The Slime Collective scum?"

^Perfect example of my point. Slime is scum is not my premise, but my conclusion.

Your argument goes something like:
P1. Slime collective has no scummy content
P2. Players who have no scummy content are likely scum
C1. Slime collective is not likely scum

Besides being a totally different argument to the one we were having, I dispute both premises here. I decided to dispute the one I think is more easily realizable as false, P2, since absence of scum content does not always make someone less scummy, especially when they have no town content. So I pointed out that I disagree with both of your premises, but also pointed out that this SEPARATE argument doesn't address my first posited argument. We are getting into the weeds with this just for me to prove my point, so if you could just take the L here so we can move on that would be great.

oh my god totally separate from your alignment here be quiet

[Horsewoman]

"if you could just take the L here so we could move on" we've got a real Ben Shapiro here chief.

[Horsewoman]

if slime flips red horse by association would taste pretty good tomorrow (assuming we are cannibals)

God I was like 2 percent of my brain away from posting a gif that said 'you wanna make a bet you jerks' and then quickhammering.

[Horsewoman]

I'd love to see the content you've produced that even sniffs the game impact I've had

Sorry guess Im owned

[Horsewoman]

No but in all seriousness, superbowl is correct that he 'took kyoko's side' in an argument and then started a really limp-wristed push on bugspray that he didn't really take anywhere. he's also spent the most recent time trying to own people with theory facts in logic instead of doing anything.

Like I really hesitate to say 'defensiveness=scummy" because that's blatantly untrue. But his response in 537 is kind of ridiculously over the top. Like aside from trying to own me by saying my content doesn't even sniff his game impact (lol), his justifications aren't even good. He hasn't been scumhunting this game beyond the most facetious way.

[superbowl9]

Lol I’m not trying to “own” anyone, hardline rhetoric just makes people respect your content more. Your points about me were very weak so I responded. You sound like you’re talking to the crowd rather than to me, but I asked you a pretty direct question: can you show me the game impact that you’ve had that’s been more helpful than mine? Because if not you should be scumreading yourself!

[Horsewoman]

Lol I’m not trying to “own” anyone, hardline rhetoric just makes people respect your content more.

Oh my god you actually are ben shapiro

[Horsewoman]

According to your own defense of your content, you have so far
1. 'Agreed with Kyoko' on a silly page 2 argument
2. Pushed bugspray mildly 3 days ago (this did not go anywhere)
3. Agreed with others voting slime and pushed him somewhat

None of that shows a genuine attempt at scumhunting. If you ISO me you'll find a wide variety of actually trying to offer my opinions and reads on the game.

[superbowl9]

Lol I’m not trying to “own” anyone, hardline rhetoric just makes people respect your content more.

Oh my god you actually are ben shapiro

LOL I think you have an impression of me as this logic debatelord which is not how I usually play. Kyoko brought out the knowyourfallacy website and I know the best way to get to that type is through this type of speaking, and I've been kinda railroaded the past two games for being too passive so I'm being more assertive. Comparing me to ben shapiro makes me want to vomit, especially from someone who will not stop using the L word.

[Horsewoman]

I'm sorry about using the word 'lynch' to refer to eliminations, I'm trying to do better but I've never seen it called by any other name. The more I play mafia on this site, the better I'll be at it.

Hey, why don't you respond to my criticisms on this page by actually trying to read players in this game? Like what the hell are your thoughts on whether I'm scum, I don't even know. What are your thoughts on kyoko? What are your thoughts on all the other people you've been arguing facts and logic about?

[superbowl9]

According to your own defense of your content, you have so far
1. 'Agreed with Kyoko' on a silly page 2 argument
2. Pushed bugspray mildly 3 days ago (this did not go anywhere)
3. Agreed with others voting slime and pushed him somewhat

None of that shows a genuine attempt at scumhunting. If you ISO me you'll find a wide variety of actually trying to offer my opinions and reads on the game.

I mean you just listed what I've done to scumhunt with words like silly, mild, and somewhat to water it down. If anything that's more than you simply "offering opinions", no?

Pedit: I don't think you are very scummy ATM, but your push on me has lessened your towncred a bit. Kyoko I've townread since the beginning of the game. Tris does have some slime partner equity but that's for tomorrow. I've already said most of that