Open 93 - Near Vanilla: Game Over, Mafia Win!

[Sineish]

Vote: Apothecary

as the first poster not to vote.

[Sineish]

It's only been just over 24 hours since the thread opened, so he's hardly lurking yet.

Mafia is l-3 on page one....something that I should know?

I don't think Gamma's vote counts until he clarifies the mod's question, so I make it L-4, which is fairly safe with only 3 scum alive.

MafiaSSK is lurker scum and needs to die ASAP.

Not before we've heard from him I hope.

[Sineish]

is the mafiassk wagon a joke?

It doesn't seem to be working as a pressure wagon.

Of the 3 players voting for him, only Doktor Per made any comment about the initial vote being random. Since then though, he has made 2 further posts encouraging a bandwagon on MafiaSSK.

unvote

It's all very obvious, MafiaSSK plans on murdering you tonight. Quick, hop on the band wagon!

While I want to hear from MafiaSSK, he's still well within the 72 hour rule, so I shan't be voting for him yet.

vote: Doktor Per

for being a little too keen on the bandwagon.

[Sineish]

Bottom line.

I'm going to stick to my vote till someone gives a compelling argument for someone else or my gut tells me to switch my vote.

Thanks for this post, it helped me understand the reasons for what you did, so my vote is not relevant any more.

Unvote

usually play poorly, but at least I play.

MafiaSSK is playing, maybe not posting very big posts, but definately not lurking.

Vote: retrowiz

for taking us to L-2 so quickly.

I understand lurking can be frustrating and often anti-town, but quicklynching lurkers on day1 is far worse.
To all the people on the MafiaSSK wagon: What do you want from him now that he's at L-2?

[Sineish]

4: Sineish - Votes Doktor Per because he is the only one who stated a random reason for voting SSK but has been calling for a bandwagon.

I didn't vote him because he was

calling

the MafiaSSK vote a bandwagon.
I voted because he made 2 posts

encouraging

a bandwagon on him, after initially claiming to have random voted.

Also, the FoS on ZazieR I get, for the same reason you voted me, but why the FoS on thegeckoj?

[Sineish]

Also, I didn't say you said he was calling the MafiaSSK vote a bandwagon.

Sorry, my bad. I completely missread the "calling

for

" bit even when copying/pasting it to quote.

Sineish is the person I found most suspicious out of the SSK wagon

I realise that I was spending rather a lot of my posts arguing against a bandwagon on MafiaSSK. I don't think I did this any more that you argued for his bandwagonning though. My concern was that we didn't quick lynch someone based only on their play style, and not on anything they had done in this game.

[Sineish]

Unvote

i urge you and the others on my bandwagon to reread the game so far and you will see what i mean about the who hand in the cookie jar with Mafia.

That's twice you've talked about the hand in the cookie jar thing. Can you give us some quotes to explain what you mean by this?

I want a vote count, but I think thats L-2 aka claim time. No one else vote until this can be confirmed.

I make it L-2 as well. I'm not voting yet because I think there's more questions that need answering.

[Sineish]

Because I rarely trust role claims, unless they have something to back it up with. Just because I don't lie, doesn't mean that someone else won't.

If he claims a power role, then backing it up will involve being night-killed at some stage. If he isn't night killed there will probably come a point where it's certain that he's scum and will be lynched then.

claiming starts most of the time discussion which is good for town.

Still not voting while we wait for a claim.

[Sineish]

You know what really helps with this him screwing up again thing? A claim.

yes i agree, but never too early. think about it this way: pretend he has power role, and he is at L-2 and a few people on there aren't real comfortable with there votes and they decide to unvote, and yet you have already gotten a claim from him. so even though he wasn't in danger of getting lynched, he still gave his role away and will get NK'ed for it

So L-1 is the correct time for a claim?

Consider this then: L-1, he claims a power role. Someone posts "I don't buy it" and hammers him, saving scum having to waste a night-kill on him and getting around any protection which might be available.

Even day 1, this may be a good investment for the mafia if the power role is strong enough.

@thegeckoj: I still think a claim is needed, but if you're not going to do that in your next post, could you answer the question I asked you back in post #144?

[Sineish]

Sineish, especially in this set up where docs can help each other out mafia might sacrifice to hammer.

That was my point - that L-2 is the correct time to be claiming, not L-1

[Sineish]

my original offense against MafiaSSK. people started a bandwagon on him early (possibly for reasons not totally warranted, which is besides the point) he tried a little at a defense but when it seemed it failed he gave up and didnt post for a long time. this is all i meant.

I took the timings of MafiaSSK's posts and I can't see what you're talking about here:
Start of Game
First Post after 60 Hours
2nd, 1 Minute later,
thegeckoj votes for MafiaSSK,
3rd, 13 Hours later,
4th, 34 Hours later,
MafiaSSK unvotes, stoping the MafiaSSK wagon building further,
5th post 24 Hours later.

@thegeckoj: Please claim now. Not claiming now will hurt the town, whatever role you have.

[Sineish]

geckoj- role claiming is a big help, for both sides. i.e.

if you have a power role and are about to be lynched, then its in the towns best interest for you to claim

so that we can try to find another candidate to lynch and not shoot ourselves in the foot by lynching a power role D1. and yes there is a chance you may be NK'ed tonight if you claim, unless a doc saves you, if you don't claim then you get lynched in the day, either way you die so

its best to claim in the day

and help out the town.
...
i haven't liked any of the defense that you have provided or how you have acted once under pressure, im going to give you the chance to

role claim now.

UNVOTE Vote Thegeckoj

Now claim.

Looking back, this now looks to me like an instruction to claim a power role.

Then, after thegeckoj claims Townie, afatchic reacts with:

Unvote.
its wifom but i believe that scum right there would have tried to fish for a counterclaim.

It also feels a little like disappointment that no power-role was claimed.

If this is correct, I can only think of 2 reasons:

Either afatchic and thegeckoj are both scum and afatchic is doing his best to try to save him,
Or afatchic is scum on a power-role hunt.

I think thegeckoj can now wait for tomorrow.

Vote: afatchic

@mod:

I'm pretty sure that retrowiz is also voting for afatchic, as he voted for Gamma in post 76.

[Sineish]

ZazieR, though I do still feel that MafiaSSK is scummy as a duck, I do believe that at this point that TheGeckoJ would be a much more valuable as it has the potential of rooting out Fatty

a much more valuable what?
how would a vote/lynch root out afatchic?

Fatty + Gecko scummyness > MafiaSKK scummyness.

I agree with this, but I would add "afatchic scummyness > thegeckoj scummyness", mainly for the reasons in my previous post.

[Sineish]

Unvote: afatchic

FOS: afatchic

Hey Scum, when you get to kill people tonight, please kill MafiaSSK, OK? I think it would be mutually beneficial.

I don't like this - I will explain why tomorrow if needed.

Vote: thegeckoj

[Sineish]

Didn't he just miss the

wagon

part and mis-interpret your post as a result? Or do you think it was deliberate misrepresentation?

[Sineish]

i would actually like to be lynched right now just so i can laugh at everyone of you when you find out im a vanilla townie when you are just so sure im scum right now. so go ahead... lynch me first.

Whether this is an appeal to emotion or not, which I find debatable, it is certainly a claim. Since you're some way off a lynch today, this doesn't help the town at all.

I'm still happy with my vote for thegeckoj though.

[Sineish]

i think afatchic needs to be lynched.

Are you going to vote for him then?

Unvote: thegeckoj

(Still FoS on both thegeckoj and afatchic)
On another subject, thegeckoj's wagon has been at L-1 for some time without being hammered. What does this mean?

[Sineish]

this game has seemingly grinded to a halt. what is everybody looking for? i'm pretty sure the scum are just holding out hoping i finally get lynched, saying nothing.

Maybe your scum buddies don't wanna hammer you.

If he is scum, I think they would have been mad not to, unless they were already on his wagon. Time for a

Vote: afatchic

then.

[Sineish]

this game has seemingly grinded to a halt. what is everybody looking for? i'm pretty sure the scum are just holding out hoping i finally get lynched, saying nothing.

Maybe your scum buddies don't wanna hammer you.

If he is scum, I think they would have been mad not to, unless they were already on his wagon. Time for a

Vote: afatchic

then.

so what you are saying is that the scum are most likely on the gecko wagon already, then you vote me?

No, I'm saying that if thegeckoj is scum, it's likely all of his scum mates were on his wagon too while it was at L-1. If they weren't, what reason could they have had not to hammer him?

Because he didn't get hammered, I now think it's actually less likely that he is scum, which is why I voted for you.

[Sineish]

MafiaSSK and ZazieR are the scum pair

and

okay its mafia and someone else then.

seem to indicate that he thinks there's only two mafia. Is this more WIFOM, something carefully crafted to sew further confusion, or another mistake?

I agree that his comment about ZazieR is WIFOM though.

I'm willing to hammer, but I'm holding off as a little more discussion is probably going to be beneficial.