Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Noraa

[Flavor Leaf]

Johnny, Noraa and Nopoint are both scum. Look at it like that for a second for me, please.

[Flavor Leaf]

That's all good, Noraa and Nopoint are pushing an obvious agenda of discrediting me, and trying to get you faded here over Nopoint.

Nopoint's claim is probably real, which is why I think vigging Nopoint is a good play, fading Noraa.

If either of them flip scum, you are basically cleared. I think they are both scum.

Noraa fade allows all PR's to have an action tonight, and Nopoint being vigged gives the Watcher an action tonight if they are able to.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fading Nora allows this PR mess to figure itself out over time

Like feeling this straight up, though I don't know WHAT to do if she's town (though probably doesn't matter cuz I'll be shot)

it doesn't matter because Nopoint and Noraa never don't have at least 1 scum in them. That's why they're trying to fade you first.

And Nopoint is tying me together with Noraa in case she is faded first.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm literally calling you scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

You just keep discrediting me acting like it's a policy without saying anything else besides discredit and shade attempts, and frankly, it's becoming blatantly more obvious as the game progresses.

[Flavor Leaf]

1) it is a policy and you haven't provided any non policy reasons until recently where ur linking me to nopo but all of those reasons are pretty shitty too.
2) do you really think we all need to hear ten pages of you saying the scum team is nopo/Noraa. Like bruh stfu for a sec. No one needs to hear a repeat of what u've already said multiple times.

oh, i've definitely added more recently, and you are starting to come more aggressively as I am as well, so that's really interesting timing to note.

And apparently they do need to hear me repeat it multiple times.

[Flavor Leaf]

it is a policy and you haven't provided any non policy reasons until recently where ur linking me to nopo but all of those reasons are pretty shitty too.

i've been doing this all day, and I even linked Nopo to Shelly.

[Flavor Leaf]

Noraa/Nopoint guarantees us at least 1 scum like 100% of the time here.

This gamestate does not occur without scum not being involved there somewhere, and Noraa/Nopoint make sense in essentially every single scum team that could exist.

And if town has an unclaimed Watcher, they get a free check tonight essentially, and it doesnt help scum that much because we outed a lot of PR's.

Fading Nora allows this PR mess to figure itself out over time, and gives every potential PR room to act if they can tonight.

Noraa is not only the slot I want to flip because they annoy me, it is strategically the best fade, then to vig Nopoint.


Noraa is trying to push Johnny so that Johnny doesn't come off as town after Nopoint flips. Nopoint is setting me up for if Noraa gets faded to push me as a buddy. Noraa came into this game ready to discredit me, as she did it before I even posted after she replaced in. This happened because I was pushing Nopoint as scum, and I needed to be discredited.

Gonna make sure Noraa doesn't have this get lost in the noise.

[Flavor Leaf]

Noraa/Nopoint guarantees us at least 1 scum like 100% of the time here.

This gamestate does not occur without scum not being involved there somewhere, and Noraa/Nopoint make sense in essentially every single scum team that could exist.

And if town has an unclaimed Watcher, they get a free check tonight essentially, and it doesnt help scum that much because we outed a lot of PR's.

Fading Nora allows this PR mess to figure itself out over time, and gives every potential PR room to act if they can tonight.

Noraa is not only the slot I want to flip because they annoy me, it is strategically the best fade, then to vig Nopoint.


Noraa is trying to push Johnny so that Johnny doesn't come off as town after Nopoint flips. Nopoint is setting me up for if Noraa gets faded to push me as a buddy. Noraa came into this game ready to discredit me, as she did it before I even posted after she replaced in. This happened because I was pushing Nopoint as scum, and I needed to be discredited.

Gonna make sure Noraa doesn't have this get lost in the noise.

She is 100% trying to disappear. Her timing of this push says everything.

[Flavor Leaf]

Noraa vs FL is to be blunt extremely stupid and I'm not entertaining it. I might be shooting away from what deems to be thread majority, but it only became that because FL loves to hear himself talk. If FL is on the wrong path as town, it's just gonna lead to scum latching onto his hot fire takes without needing to substantiate themselves. I don't know if Noraa gets into a slapfight like this and her read on Johnny seems to be very personal, so much that I don't feel it's fake.

no, im just right

[Flavor Leaf]

Might have just been right on Nora/Nopoint/Unwnd team. I forgot about Unwnd.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Nopoint

Aight. end this day. vig noraa.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: unwnd
Been trying to work out where i wanted to vote after my initial read got kiboshed. Think I am happy here at the moment.
Holidays so doing best to keep on top of things, people in this game have more knowledge than me. There must be more stuff out there too if the death last night was not scum aligned....

VOTE: Insanoflex

A {Noraa, unwnd, Insano} Scum Team would be interesting.

While I'm not liking andres and to some extent gera, I'm not sure I can buy a world where they see nopoint being at death's door and

both

of them just feign ignorance. Right now between the two it becomes a matter whether Andres was locked into his own stances (and switching off would look scummy) or if Gera is just being coy intentionally

I like this. I’m catching up. I’ll be mia until late tomorrow, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Do you agree with me that there's likely scum on Nopoint's wagon?

I do

Yesterday I argued that it would be better to shoot nopoint instead of eliminating them

The idea behind that was that they were claiming watcher enabler, and even if mafia had a watcher, it was functionally useless (since the town all claimed)

But we bulldozed an elim on them anyway. it worked out in the end, but I don't think it was optimal play, and I don't think scum cared about anything but looking good

This high key irritates me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Noraa/Nopoint guarantees us at least 1 scum like 100% of the time here.

This gamestate does not occur without scum not being involved there somewhere, and Noraa/Nopoint make sense in essentially every single scum team that could exist.

And if town has an unclaimed Watcher, they get a free check tonight essentially, and it doesnt help scum that much because we outed a lot of PR's.

Fading Nora allows this PR mess to figure itself out over time, and gives every potential PR room to act if they can tonight.

Noraa is not only the slot I want to flip because they annoy me, it is strategically the best fade, then to vig Nopoint.


Noraa is trying to push Johnny so that Johnny doesn't come off as town after Nopoint flips. Nopoint is setting me up for if Noraa gets faded to push me as a buddy. Noraa came into this game ready to discredit me, as she did it before I even posted after she replaced in. This happened because I was pushing Nopoint as scum, and I needed to be discredited.

Gonna make sure Noraa doesn't have this get lost in the noise.

Because I had been stating fade Noraa, Vig Nopoint all day because it was the optimal play for most information and guaranteed at least 1 scum.

Nopoint was distancing from Noraa at the end of the day.

VOTE: Noraa

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m essentially looking at the game with 2 of 4 are scum.

Andres, Noraa, Insaneo, Geraint.

Andres-Noraa probably not together.

I’ve generally liked Geraint this game on a soul level, and I want to say it’s Noraa/Insaneo based on the end of the day yesterday.

[Flavor Leaf]

There’s also no proof that Insaneo is in the neighborhood, keep that in mind. If he is scum, he was scum with Nopoint and would know everything in the neighborhood.

[Flavor Leaf]

2017 join date

2014 actually, this was an alt.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: unwnd
Been trying to work out where i wanted to vote after my initial read got kiboshed. Think I am happy here at the moment.
Holidays so doing best to keep on top of things, people in this game have more knowledge than me. There must be more stuff out there too if the death last night was not scum aligned....

VOTE: Insanoflex

A {Noraa, unwnd, Insano} Scum Team would be interesting.

While I'm not liking andres and to some extent gera, I'm not sure I can buy a world where they see nopoint being at death's door and

both

of them just feign ignorance. Right now between the two it becomes a matter whether Andres was locked into his own stances (and switching off would look scummy) or if Gera is just being coy intentionally

I like this. I’m catching up. I’ll be mia until late tomorrow, though.

Because Noraa tried turning me for making a single pop in post when I had posted about 4 times earlier, one even saying I would be mia, so quoting where i said i'd be mia so Noraa doesnt try to discredit.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just tune Noraa out at this point. They're the fade today.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Flavor, I still want you to quantify the odds that Noraa is Town here.

I'm like 65% scum 35% town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Either way, no way I vote anyone else today. Noraa slot is a slot I want flipped because she's in the POE, and I think she's super distracting and allowing town to hide if she is town, so there's no downside. I want to go through the POE right now anyways.

Noraa is discrediting/shading anyone who scum reads her, when there are actual reasons for people to scum read her. If she is town, that doesn't mean the reasons aren't there, and it's not up to others to magically know.

I can't tell which, and parts of her AtE work, and make me think she could be coming from town, but at the end of the day, she's doing nothing but discrediting and shading. She's in the POE, I think she's the best fade today.

I thought she was the best fade yesterday, and even in hindsight, I still do.

Nora fade, Nopoint Vig shot was the right play.

Now we can fade Nora, and then vig Geraint. My most likely team theories are Noraa/Insaneo or Andres/Geraint right now, and I will always go Noraa over Andres here, if only because I'm willing to give Andres the benefit of the doubt over Noraa based on my experiences with both of them, and who I think is more likely, if town, to assist the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually don’t think Noraa’s Vig pool is bad if she is town.

If she is scum, don’t shoot Andres, shoot Insaneo or geraint.

[Flavor Leaf]

Did a hammer happen? I vaguely skimmed, and feel like it might have. Catching up now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, Insaneo is almost lock scum if Noraa is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think i have a solve now

this is pretty speculative but nopoint saying "maf don't want to stall they want to elim townies" felt genuine to me. I think nopoint was annoyed as maf that he didnt get a mislim. This makes me think that he probably talked in maf chat about his frustration n1 and got some sort of resonance with maf. He'd probably want to push inactive maf slots to join a wagon otherwise. To me the other person most frusterated with inactivity day 1 was uwnd, so this kind of implicates him to me but the idea is a bit of a stretch.

uwnd's suggestion really pinged me. since uwnd knew I'd very likely shoot between gera and uwnd after noraa elim, he was very survivalistic for a VT suggesting that we elim gera and have me choose between andres and noraa: too much self-preservation for a VT imo.

therefore, my solve is nopoint/noraa/uwnd.

This was my solve yesterday. I’m pretty sure I was wrong.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just woke up, Noraa. I sleep from like 8am-4pm my time. We’ve been through this.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually don’t think Noraa’s Vig pool is bad if she is town.

If she is scum, don’t shoot Andres, shoot Insaneo or geraint.

pfft now you stop tunneling?
Ok fine if {Insano, Unwnd, Andres, Geraint} are all town, its flavor, not Dunn.

How is this me stopping a tunnel? We’re in twilight.

[Flavor Leaf]

Full disclosure, now that I’m last up.

I am an Informed townie who knows there is a vigilante enabler in the game. I think it is Insaneo. I used to think it was Unwnd, but I challenged Unwnd after I claimed, and he really didn’t understand anything, which is when my read on them started turning.

Insaneo was the one to comment on my Vigilante Enabler claim and went “i believe this because my role.” I thought they were Vig until Plusjoyed came, and then bodyguard didn’t seem like a role the necessitates Vig. On top of Nopoint trying to counterclaim me, Nopoint pushed me because he knew there was an enabler on his team that I claimed, and they chose to not counterclaim me.

Andres/Geraint could have it, but with Noraa’s post in twilight, I think scum is Noraa/Insaneo.

[Flavor Leaf]

i really think Insaneo is scum here, Dunnstral.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, I conceded.

I can’t win.

Andres fade today, Geraint shot, I’m stuck with conftown in lylo.

[Flavor Leaf]

5 scum games in a row, like come on. :/

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, I conceded.

I can’t win.

Andres fade today, Geraint shot, I’m stuck with conftown in lylo.

The Vig can’t shoot though.

I’m aware.

VOTE: Geraint

[Flavor Leaf]

I was reaction testing Andres, and I think he’s genuinely town here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Did you really think for a second there that Noraa was right about my slot?

Not necessarily.

If she had the right read, I don’t think she knew the right reasons regardless.

For what it’s worth, Pooky vs FL large game just ended with a concede, so I followed suit here since I saw Andres.

[Flavor Leaf]

flip

unwnd,

Mafia Vigilante Enabler

, was killed Night 3!

Insanoflex,

Town 1-shot Loyal Bodyguard

, was killed Night 3!

It is now Day 4.

Spoiler: unwnd Role PM

Mafia vigilante enabler

Hello

unwnd

, and welcome to Mini Normal 2183!

You are a

Mafia Vigilante Enabler

.

You share a private topic with REDACTED. You may discuss the game at all times with them REDACTED. You share a factional nightkill with them: each night, one of you may target a player. If successful, that player will die.

If you die, any vigilante abilities in the game will stop working.

You win when all town members are dead and at least one mafia member is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.

Please confirm by sending me a PM with your role and alignment.

Spoiler: Insanoflex Role PM

Town 1-shot loyal bodyguard

Hello

Insanoflex

Hank Spankems

, and welcome to Mini Normal 2183!

You are a

Town 1-shot Loyal Bodyguard

.

Each night, you may target a player. If that player is killed that night, you will die in their place. You may only use your ability once during the game. Your ability will fail if you target someone whose alignment differs from your own.

You win when all mafia members are dead and at least one town member is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.

Please confirm by sending me a PM with your role and alignment.

lets fucking gooooooooo!

Yeah, good shot. I turned around on Unwnd too.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you ask me, I think Flavor needs to more conclusively demonstrate why nopoint makes sense as the execution.

I don't want Nopoint as the execution.

I want Unwnd.

I'm unsure why you keep misrepping my posts? I don't feel like it's on purpose, if that helps, but you probably need to reread my posts.

I did my VCA on Unwnd already to explain Unwnd Scum.

I hate when I do this.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think this sets fl as the last maf yeah?
also should be obvious but I can't shoot anymore

What? Why would it be me? Unwnd and Nopoint were the 2 slots I pushed the most. Noraa distracted me for a bit.

[Flavor Leaf]

I know for a fact you are scum here, Unwnd, and you know exactly why I know you are scum.

I think Shelly had a decent chance of being the scum leader now, and unfortunate that it got replaced to Noraa.

What are your thoughts on that slot, Unwnd?

I think Insano's efforts are town even if the read is largely based on tone difference from the last game. Why do you exactly

know

I'm scum. I don't feel that evidence is provided nor will you ever give it

This is why arguing with you is pointless, and I'm not looking forward to you forcing me into a 1v1 even if you're scum

Insano is the Hank slot.

Noraa is shelly slot.

I will give it Day 3, you are sitting in a spot currently of "FL is correct but for the wrong reasons", and I quite like that.

You have Dunn fooled, though, which is why I've accepted going elsewhere.

How so?

hyena'd.

Nopoints posts towards me are completely weak, you see this too. That's why I think Nopoint should always be the vig toDay. Nopoint flipping scum, I'll explain my Unwnd more on Day 3.

Get more info around the slots with a Noraa fade tbh, plus I don't trust townNoraa. We need a fade. We're in circular territory.

My initial read on Unwnd was that he was the Vig Enabler, which is why I said I would explain my Unwnd read on Day 3, but then he played in a way where I didn’t think he was Vig enabler, or even knew of it, which is why my read changed on him.

[Flavor Leaf]

mafia vigilante enabler and you claimed enabler?

Did you miss my post at end of the day?

[Flavor Leaf]

i think this sets fl as the last maf yeah?
also should be obvious but I can't shoot anymore

I’m trying to figure out why Flavor would reveal the presence of an Enabler in the Scum Team though. Like I have been going back and forth about it and at first it just seems kind of silly. It seems like the sort of thing that Flavor as Town would do.

Well, look what happened when I did it.

Nopoint came after me in an extremely unnatural way.

[Flavor Leaf]

People were town reading me for the Vigilante Enabler claim, and I really didn’t think it was townie since I was informed, I knew scum had the Vig enabler.

[Flavor Leaf]

hmm ok
I think last maf is in FL, gera, or andres

Plus, we’re the only non conf townies. That’s just the POE.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think this sets fl as the last maf yeah?
also should be obvious but I can't shoot anymore

What? Why would it be me? Unwnd and Nopoint were the 2 slots I pushed the most. Noraa distracted me for a bit.

the main thing that pings me is that you claimed vig enabler day 2 before I claimed vig and n1 had only 1 kill.

I'm informed of a Vig Enabler in the game, what's pinging you

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, it needs to be said. Insanoflex definitely protected correctly overnight, and deserves praise for it. That move makes all of the difference for us, because we were having an argument yesterday and it could have hindered us today.

Yeah, I would have pushed him too. even after an Unwnd flip.

[Flavor Leaf]

Damn, that annoys me.

Nopoint and Unwnd completely demotivated me out of this game Day 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

I could definitely see you claiming enabler as scum though
also kudos to good play by insaneo for tricking mafia n2 and n3, I would've totally wasted my shot n2

Why would I claim Unwnd's role as their partner? If any scum is to get vigged, it would make sense to be Unwnd.

[Flavor Leaf]

therefore, my solve is nopoint/noraa/uwnd.

this was my solve you took too, Plus.

[Flavor Leaf]

LNT

()_+_)()_-_)

HELLLLLLLLLLO, TOWNIES OF MINI NORMAL 2183!!!

()_+_)()_-_)

Welcome to the hottest talk show on Mafiascum.net,
Welcome to another episode of

LAST NIGHT TOMORROW

It's me, everyone's favorite sociopath, your host,

FLAVOR!

The only leaf that brings the beef.

Andresvmb

- I like this current discussion with Andres. I've never had to read Andres before, but I don't know if he'd try to work with me as scum over discredit me, so I'm going to town read this here.

shellyc

- They were fluffy early, but they seemed to become a central point for discussion. They also town read me when scum reading me could have been beneficial.

JohnnyFarrar

- I called it out when they jumped on me earlier, but I think this is town. The unvote after was interesting, but yeah. I also don't know if they make that comment Andres called out as scum. It's a weird comment to make as scum.

TheFuzzylogic99

- Seems to be actually analyzing, at least with them talking about not sure how they feel on johnny and I. Feels like Fuzzy. I didn't hate them wondering about Titus and I either, it makes sense.

PlusJOYED

- I town read them Day 1 enough to put them in a town block, but then Day 2, I was the one pushing them the hardest, and they were scum. They also posted a lot more there as scum, so weak meta read from being inactive, but I think this is probably town. If they start scumming it up, they'll lose it, but I'd like to see what happens if they are scum and I put them as a higher town read again anyways.

Hank Spankems

- Hasn't done much, but I did like their greeting to me. It could be scum, not enough out there yet, but I feel if they were scum, they might be more interested. I'll keep this at the higher almost lean town of my neutrals.

Titus

- Hasn't really done much. Could be scum indicative, could be activity issues. I'll keep it null for now, but I'm probably more neutral scum.

Not_Mafia

- I was getting pinged by Not Mafia earlier, but I said recently in another game that I usually town read them when they are scum, but they seemed to post more than I'm used to on Day 1, and I was pinged earlier. I'm leaning scum, but there's not actually enough for me to wanna full send this yet.

geraintm

- He be shading, and does similar anti town rhetoric speals that unwnd does, except their's is actually incorrect here, and might have been advantageous to try and keep shade on me.

unwnd

- Xenoblade 2 they pushed me all Day 1 as town, but there it seemed like they had more actual reasons, here they're just pushing anti town blah, which fine, yeah, there's townies that do that, I expect them to be one of those, but scum use that kinda thing as a crutch "I would be calling it anti town regardless if I was town or not" kinda thing. I'll lean scum.

nopointinactingup

- If I recall correctly, they're the other one who pushed Dunn, so it's interesting they're both voting me now. Nopoint made the second vote, the one I was baiting, so this has a high chance of being caught scum for that reason alone.

Dunnstral

- Dunnstral brushed and deflected early game reads and looks to both try and pocket Shelly by hard town reading them, and also rescinded when speaking to another player, this was to Nopoint even.

In conclusion, vote Dunnstral, my theory is Nopoint/Dunnstral team, probably with one of my higher town reads.

____________________________________

()_+_)()_-_)

Will Not Mafia post another wall of Miltanks?

Will Dunnstral try to clap back against Andres and Flavor?

Will Unwnd and Geraint get off their anti town rhetoric and finally think at a higher level?!?

FIND OUT NEXT TIME ON

LAST NIGHT TOMORROW

this held up well.

[Flavor Leaf]

therefore, my solve is nopoint/noraa/uwnd.

this was my solve you took too, Plus.

I didn't know

I pushed it the majority of Day 2, but I dropped Unwnd a little later once Noraa started distracting me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Damn, it sucks if ScumAndres wins this game tbh.

[Flavor Leaf]

The same could be said for me, though, I guess.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think I'm faded like 85% of the time in an Andres vs FL endgame tomorrow.

[Flavor Leaf]

I had too strong of a game, which is normally a scum tell for me, and Dunnstral won't risk losing to me in a lylo situation like that after the last time I did it.

[Flavor Leaf]

You won't go down quick. The unvoters are all conf town.

You, me, and Andres are the only 3 not conf town.

[Flavor Leaf]

they're a vig.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not Mafia, I was the main one to push Nopoint, and I pushed Unwnd for multiple day phases. They both also spent the majority of the game discrediting me.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I would have set you up to vote where I wanted you to vote long ago and you know it.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I would have set you up to vote where I wanted you to vote long ago and you know it.

I don't know it, I've been pretty resolute on nopoint and unwnd all game

Not as much as me. I spent all Day 2 pushing Unwnd, then I pushed Nopoint/Noraa.

Look at both Unwnd and Nopoint's ISO's. They basically town spew me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

If there's zero scum in Noraa/Nopoint, fade me.

I am not wrong in at least one scum in them.

Fade and Vig them.

Dunn
Not Mafia
Insano

Andres
Geraint

Johnny
Plus
Noraa

Nopoint

Unwnd

Yeah, I'll vote Nopoint today.

I've literally stated we fade one on Nora/Nopoint and vig the other.

VOTE: Nopoint

Nopoint has a higher chance of flipping scum, as you can see by my reads list.

I am noting every single one of the people protecting Noraa.


Fade NoPoint, Vig Noraa.

I want a fucking fade.

Fade No Point, vig Noraa.

I've literally been calling Nopoint and Unwnd scum all day, and nobody was trying to push fucking Nopoint until after I pushed Noraa.

Nopoint's reads and progression on me all game have been fake.

I'm going to bring it all the way back to early Day 1.

He shaded Dunnstral poorly, as did I.

Then I played my bait, and Nopoint's literally the player that got caught from my bait earlier.

I guarantee you that Nopoint is scum, and I have been saying Nopoint scum since Day 1.

I have been pushing Nopoint as my top 2 scumreads all day, and actually, I'm easing up on Unwnd a bit because of Noraa/Nopoint.

Nopoint disappeared from the game when Noraa and I were fighting, yet Plusjoyed isn't talking about that.

I don't care the order, and I've been saying this all day, so the slots who are just now coming over to Nopoint is scummy.

Fade Noraa, Vig Nopoint, or fade Nopoint, Vig Noraa.

that's where I'm at.

@Dunn - Can we fade Nora, Vig Nopoint?

or vice versa.

We will hit scum with this plan, possibly 2.

Literally, just sheep me today people.

Nopoint's reads and progression on me all game have been fake.

I'm going to bring it all the way back to early Day 1.

He shaded Dunnstral poorly, as did I.

Then I played my bait, and Nopoint's literally the player that got caught from my bait earlier.

I guarantee you that Nopoint is scum, and I have been saying Nopoint scum since Day 1.

I have been pushing Nopoint as my top 2 scumreads all day, and actually, I'm easing up on Unwnd a bit because of Noraa/Nopoint.

Nopoint disappeared from the game when Noraa and I were fighting, yet Plusjoyed isn't talking about that.

This turn makes perfect sense btw if Noraa was scum with FL

Vote: Noraa

You've been the slot I've been pushing as scum the longest.

I brought up vigging Unwnd Day 1.

I think you're wrong about Noraa, and I think they're vote is a bus.

Nopoint saved Noraa here too, but they essentially gave their life.

If Nopoint flips town, please vig Noraa.

Nopoint needs to claim, by the way

really just another reason to fade Noraa today, vig nopoint.

another 2 scum possible chain, and you wont have to hear me about it tomorrow.

This is actually the best reason to vote Noraa

Lmao FL if you think johnny/me/noraa are scum team again

I've never said Johnny is scum anywhere in this game, i don't know where you keep getting this from.

That still isn't a means of claiming, especially if you could prove it. What you're saying has a lot of utility and you could've gave us worthwhile results??

X

I don't understand where you disagree

He was likely getting vigged. I think that makes sense for them to claim.

I'd prefer that Johnny was not shot at this point, his role seems town to me, and also real

I use Complex Fruit Vendor a lot as a Scum Role in games I design, that's the only thing pinging me. The motives behind Johnny claiming feel townie to me, and Nopoint makes sense too. I don't think Nopoint is town by any means, but I'm less certain than I was a little while ago.

I can keep going, but yeah.

If you ever think I'm scum here, I don't know what to tell you.

[Flavor Leaf]

So why did you not want a vig on unwnd?

I stated Day 1 vig should vig Unwnd.

I just wanted Insaneo or Geraint. Geraint could still be scum, so I might still be correct.

[Flavor Leaf]

You're literally pushing me off of 1 bad post at the end of the day when I was pushing Noraa as scum and ignoring the entirety of the rest of my game.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Not Mafia

I quit.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Not Mafia

I quit.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Meant to do this.

Have fun in the 50/50 tomorrow.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like sorry, I'm really just done with the ignorance in this game.

Noraa nearly made me stop playing, I don't have the energy to care anymore.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't care.

You're wrong.

[Flavor Leaf]

and despite all the evidence in front of you, you're too surface level a player to comprehend it.

I was pushing 2 scum the majority of this game, got one faded, saved Johnny from being faded, and got Noraa faded.

I played extremely well this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

and got Noraa faded.

Noraa was town

Don't care. I said this already. That was a personal fade.

[Flavor Leaf]

This seems like a very outsized reaction considering I'm the only one really pushing you.

You're being very erratic today for no discernable reason, we're in a very structured endgame situation

No, it doesn't matter. You're too surface level to understand that.

I get faded, you have a 50/50 tomorrow, and frankly, I don't care. If town loses, you're the blame.

[Flavor Leaf]

and got Noraa faded.

Noraa was town

Don't care. I said this already. That was a personal fade.

And that is something to brag about, why exactly?

I wasn't bragging? I was saying why I'm happy with this game for me.

If we lose, it's because you couldn't comprehend it in your cow brain.

[Flavor Leaf]

This seems like a very outsized reaction considering I'm the only one really pushing you.

You're being very erratic today for no discernable reason, we're in a very structured endgame situation

No, it doesn't matter. You're too surface level to understand that.

I get faded, you have a 50/50 tomorrow, and frankly, I don't care. If town loses, you're the blame.

So I'm a terrible surface player who's too stupid to understand what's going on and I'm the only player who wants to elim you, so you're self voting and throwing and wishing for town to lose?

Yup. Because I can see ahead of time better than you. I am able to see the entire game essentially from Day 1 when I am scum, few things differ, sure.

Scum is Geraint and Andres, and I'm kind of sick of you not knowing anything about games, and causing scum to win.

You were the main vote I was playing with in that game I got you to misvote, and I specifically kept you alive there because of it.

Your lack of knowing obvious stuff in game loses for town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah @Flavor the temper tantrum here is not warranted.

Like I said, I also had a game just end elsewhere, and that one made me super salty on top of this.

So this has additional salt for sure, not warrant, I disagree.

I've known Not Mafia for too long for this, and is exactly why I was able to abuse it before so perfectly.

I also NEVER

NEVER let a day 1 go without a misfade as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Scum is Geraint and Andres, and I'm kind of sick of you not knowing anything about games, and causing scum to win.

Care to clarify?

I meant or Andres.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am 90% sure Unwnd is scum, and I would have been okay flipping them with a coinflip odds.

I don’t know that this is the sort of thing Partners post about each other haha it way too aggressive. The wishy washy post geraintm made (where they incorrectly voted for nopoint and corrected it to Johnny in a subsequent post) is more typical.

Unwnd and Nopoint both spent like the entire game trying to not allow me to gain momentum.

They tried to shut me down from the beginning. Even Geraint started pushing an anti town rhetoric towards me.

Unwnd and Nopoint are the reason that I didn't care about this game because they pointlessly targeted me, and it was too early in the game for me to reliably see that they were scum piling up on me.

I spent the first half of Day 2 pushing Unwnd/Nopoint as scum, Noraa replaces in, does her annoying thing, distracts, uses bad logic, distracts me.

I also call out Unwnd, but he did handle that pretty well, so I didn't think he was a Vig Enabler.

Look what happens after I claim Vig Enabler.

Nopoint goes to discredit me KNOWING Unwnd is a Vig Enabler, and Unwnd disappears for a while while I focus on Noraa/Nopoint.

Noraa was pushing Johnny as scum. No point was pushing Noraa and I as a scum team.

I easily, EASILY, could have gotten Johnny or Noraa faded there if I was scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

and got Noraa faded.

Noraa was town

Don't care. I said this already. That was a personal fade.

And that is something to brag about, why exactly?

I wasn't bragging? I was saying why I'm happy with this game for me.

If we lose, it's because you couldn't comprehend it in your cow brain.

And the other 3 people I get to join me on the wagon are what, chopped liver?

you don't need 3.

You need 2.

Plus, Geraint, and Dunnstral all will likely join, so it doesn't matter.

[Flavor Leaf]

I haven't done shit with you this game.

I did that in that last game.

[Flavor Leaf]

It was more general than to you, I got off on a rant.

[Flavor Leaf]

and got Noraa faded.

Noraa was town

Don't care. I said this already. That was a personal fade.

And that is something to brag about, why exactly?

I wasn't bragging? I was saying why I'm happy with this game for me.

If we lose, it's because you couldn't comprehend it in your cow brain.

And the other 3 people I get to join me on the wagon are what, chopped liver?

you don't need 3.

You need 2.

Plus, Geraint, and Dunnstral all will likely join, so it doesn't matter.

We're in 6p, it's not my fault you're self voting

Like, you say I'm keeping options open, but that's the scummy thing to do here. I'm actively being aware that either of Andres/Geraint can be scum, and frankly, I'm super paranoid that it's Andres. If we fade Geraint, and it's Andres, this is a town loss. I never beat AndresScum in this situation here.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's not my fault you're self voting

yes it is

[Flavor Leaf]

it's not my fault you're self voting

yes it is

You are the master of your own destiny

Nah.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I said, I'm salty all around right now. Conceded in a game like an hour ago, not gonna get into that, then surface level Not Mafia struck at the wrong time. I also didn't sleep, was about to go sleep like 3 hours ago, but then stuff happened.

[Flavor Leaf]

That Not Mafia salt's always there, but the timing of everything triggered me, and frankly, I'm done with Mafia for a minute.

[Flavor Leaf]

I wouldn't be surprised if he conceded here too in a fit of pique and then retracted it

this doesn't even factually make sense. If I was scum here, there's still 2 misfade options that were entirely possible.

[Flavor Leaf]

Exactly why you should know without a doubt that I am town here.

[Flavor Leaf]

I only voted scum here besides early Day 1 and Noraa.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, fade me today.

I'm not to blame for this loss.

I think it's Andres here.

[Flavor Leaf]

And Insaneo was scummy, I still don't understand that.

[Flavor Leaf]

like i don't care at all anymore, about mafia really.

[Flavor Leaf]

it's just gone.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have like 3 near perfect town games, zero credit, in the past few months. Well, a little credit for Xenoblade.

Always with my town games. Everytime.

And I rarely ever roll town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Andres setup a situation where Geraint gets voted out today, then gets to beat me in the 1v1.

And Not Mafia to surface level to figure it out, and Plus still too new.

[Flavor Leaf]

Andres setup a situation where Geraint gets voted out today, then gets to beat me in the 1v1.

And Not Mafia to surface level to figure it out, and Plus still too new.

[Flavor Leaf]

the fact only like Shelly stated anything about my wall post likely means I have strong reads considering not only did I actively do more work, my wagon sped up afterwards.

I thought your wall of reads was reasonable but I’m also biased since it looks like I’m your strongest TR.

^I would maybe disagree on nopoint though. I don’t see the slot as Scummy. I thought that acknowledgment that the slip maybe wasn’t that to be a Towny response.

[Flavor Leaf]

Towns are unwnd, andres, johnny, fuzzy, Plus. scumies are dunn, maybe FL

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like while it does implicate shelly from end of day play, it's too obvious for shelly to kill titus. That's not really shelly's scum style at least in a vacuum. Shelly usually goes for PRs and is confident in their dayplay that they'd go another target. Rather I think scum is trying to get us on shelly.
Following that I think nopoint is more likely since they were on each other. I also think there's very likely at least 1 scum in the lurkers from end of day 1 or the inactives.

There’s no such thing as too Scummy to be Scum. If the end of day play makes shellyc look bad, then we shouldn’t shy away from looking there closely.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah I've got a solid TR on shelly despite them seeming scummy based on titus suspecting them. I'd rather go nopoint

Yeah, I’ll vote Nopoint. Right now, I’m thinking

Nopoint, Plus, Shelley, could be wrong with Shelly, but they’re town reading me too hard for my liking.

I feel like Plus is scum who is trying to figure out if their partner is guiltied.

[Flavor Leaf]

not so spicy take

VOTE: Unwnd

Dunn
Not Mafia

Geraint
Andres

Shelly
Hank
Johnny

Plusjoyed
Fuzzy
Nopoint
Unwnd

Probably where I'm at.

I'd say at least 2 scum in bottom group, possible scum in that shelly, hank, johnny. But all 3 could be in that bottom.

No ranking between tiers.

geraint i think has been genuine, I thought they were townie day 1 too, their comment is weird if coming from scum on Dunn/Not Mafia.

Andres hasn't done much, but they've been here to talk, and I feel they would have done more if they were scum.

Shelly put me as a town read in a spot I think it would have been good to let me get momentum, so if she is scum, she actively prevented me from gaining momentum, and with the no fade, I think this is weird, however i'm weak to pocketing, and Titus was pushing her.

Hank hasn't done anything scummy to me, day 1 it's more okay than day 2. I hope they can town it up.

johnny, eh, i remember them a bit day 1, and they were doing stuff, and voting around, but they werent able to get momentum, that's why they're there.

plusjoyed I mentioned earlier. I think they were distancing from Nopoint in case one of them were guiltied, but this is more reliant on both of them. I still think Plus probably thought someone was guiltied and got worried.

Fuzzy has played pretty poorly this game, I feel. most of their playing has been "flavor and titus are good, let's kill them because they have a good scum game.", and Titus dying I think leads back to them more.

Nopoint has been scummy most of the game, this carries over from my day 1. Their posts just seem kinda fake, nothing in particular has been "bad", but they seem like they don't believe what they're saying, also I think they have connections to Plusjoyed because of my Plus case.

Unwnd was playing the "this is how it should be played" game, and i thought it was NAI at first, but I feel they can be using that as an excuse and almost choosing to play that act this game.

I think all 3 scum are in those 4, however, if I'm wrong in that, it's 1 of the 3 in the tier above.

1.04

Flavor Leaf

[3]: nopointinactingup#293, unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343

1.05

Flavor Leaf

[4]: unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343, Titus#503, Not_Mafia#509

Not_Mafia [2]:

Hank Spankems#69, PlusJOYED#365

Dunnstral

[3]:

Flavor Leaf#381,

Andresvmb#403, nopointinactingup#548

1.06

shellyc [3]: nopointinactingup#599,

Titus#638

, JohnnyFarrar#647

Flavor Leaf

[4]: unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343, Titus#503, Not_Mafia#509

Unwnd is scum by VCA. 1.04 to 1.05 no point looks like scum trying to get off the wagon that looks to be gaining, but the Not Mafia wagon likely has a scum on it, which does fit with my Plus theory.

Dunn
Not Mafia

Geraint
Andres

Shelly
Hank
Johnny

Plusjoyed
Fuzzy
Nopoint
Unwnd

Probably where I'm at.

I'd say at least 2 scum in bottom group, possible scum in that shelly, hank, johnny. But all 3 could be in that bottom.

cool, let's go nopoint together.

[Flavor Leaf]

A lot of my previous reads sorta became fleeting. I disliked Nopoint but it's been actual days and I can't remember the reason why. I can't read someone's mind but I imagine Shelly feels close to the same in terms of me. The M/O of most scum team is either 1) Control the gamestate 2) Operate in the gamestate. If scum were

controlling

the gamestate, then logic persists that Me/Flavor/Shelly would be in contention purely by the amount of seeming effort. I think Flavor is wrong about me and I think he's done some absolutely nonsensical posts, but that's a lot of extra for nothing gained. This gives me pause even if I initially was a bit annoyed people were townreading him. I think those people who are seemingly just being like, 'well, that's flavor being flavor' have more possibility to be scum who are only operating in the gamestate provided for them. This is not an absolute rather just an observation.

I mean this literally, but me and FL have provided provided more than 20% of the posts made, and then most of them are interacting with each other.

[Flavor Leaf]

Do you wanna be cheeky adhominem or do you want to actually respond to my points?

Shelly, so instead of reading and meta-ing me yourself you went and asked Johnny? Seems a bit theatrical. And one thing I have to add, there's no use in meta-ing someone if you only read their scum game. For example, you keep saying I'm lurking but if you read any of my town games (from waaaaaaaay before) you will see that I have similar post frequency regardless of alignment because I like to read a whole bunch of stuff in succession it helps me keep track of what's happening in town

The difference is that I’m town-reading Johny despite the only game I’ve played with him he was scum. If you had the time to read my scum game why not skim my town game? Or is it just convenient not to? You pushing Johny to see me as scum was my point against you not the fact that you didn’t read my town game

That Nopoint chainsaw.

[Flavor Leaf]

Dunn
Not Mafia

Geraint
Andres

Shelly
Hank
Johnny

Plusjoyed
Fuzzy
Nopoint
Unwnd

Probably where I'm at.

I'd say at least 2 scum in bottom group, possible scum in that shelly, hank, johnny. But all 3 could be in that bottom.

@unwnd remember, Flavor is saying that all of the Scum are in {plusJOYED, Fuzzy, nopoint, you}. Do you buy that? Because I don’t. Hank should be in everybody’s suspicious or null pile, for example. plusJOYED is actually trying even if I think they have a few things wrong.

TMI

UNVOTE: Flavor

[Flavor Leaf]

fwiw i now sorta want to reverse my unwnd read

I feel like unwnd wants to strongarm the gamestate here

@unwnd talk to me about this post. Are you really all that sure about your view of the game? You seem to be partly defending two players {Shellyc, Flavor} that are more than happy to vote for you and throw you under the bus, because they post a lot? Quantity of posting for the two of them is not indicative of anything at all. Particularly for those two.

I've a reassessment about myself slightly unrelated to this game and I would like to follow through on it. The gist of it being that predetermined lims are almost always bad and give scum a lot of space to maneuver. Regardless of thieir post-count, the aimlessness I see is mostly because you have fleeting reads without prior substance. Do you think this would be an intentional move on Shelly's part? Flavor? Both of them feel like stubborn people and I'm not sure of what's left is actually AI.

Dunn
Not Mafia

Geraint
Andres

Shelly
Hank
Johnny

Plusjoyed
Fuzzy
Nopoint
Unwnd

Probably where I'm at.

I'd say at least 2 scum in bottom group, possible scum in that shelly, hank, johnny. But all 3 could be in that bottom.

@unwnd remember, Flavor is saying that all of the Scum are in {plusJOYED, Fuzzy, nopoint, you}. Do you buy that? Because I don’t. Hank should be in everybody’s suspicious or null pile, for example. plusJOYED is actually trying even if I think they have a few things wrong.

He says a ton of things that feel really hard to grasp. I have to read mostly what he's pushing. If I were to separate Flavor from well, himself, I would definitely say that his posts are made only for show. I dislike this innately but I'm giving him space to show me if there's method in the madness or not.

literally talking to each other discrediting me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Dunn
Not Mafia

Geraint
Andres

Shelly
Hank
Johnny

Plusjoyed
Fuzzy
Nopoint
Unwnd

Probably where I'm at.

I'd say at least 2 scum in bottom group, possible scum in that shelly, hank, johnny. But all 3 could be in that bottom.

@unwnd remember, Flavor is saying that all of the Scum are in {plusJOYED, Fuzzy, nopoint, you}. Do you buy that? Because I don’t. Hank should be in everybody’s suspicious or null pile, for example. plusJOYED is actually trying even if I think they have a few things wrong.

I specifically stated at least 2 scum in the bottom group in the post that you quoted, and said "but all 3", why the misrep?

I caught Plusjoyed earlier in the year, and they were trying there too, what's that have to do with it? I specifically stated scum can be in the 3 person group, which includes Hank. That is my suspicious/null pile.

Misrepped me here.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you ask me, I think Flavor needs to more conclusively demonstrate why nopoint makes sense as the execution.

I don't want Nopoint as the execution.

I want Unwnd.

I'm unsure why you keep misrepping my posts? I don't feel like it's on purpose, if that helps, but you probably need to reread my posts.

I did my VCA on Unwnd already to explain Unwnd Scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am 90% sure Unwnd is scum, and I would have been okay flipping them with a coinflip odds.

[Flavor Leaf]

770 - unwnd I can’t fully understand what you’re saying here, so I’ll ask some questions.

Who do you think is pushing pre-determined executions? And who are you saying has reads without substance? If you’re speaking about my reads, I very much explained my read on Shellyc towards the beginning of today. Are you complaining about my TRs? I have made some arguments about nopoint before in D1. None of that has really changed.

If you’re speaking about Shellyc, she doesn’t have a choice. She had 3 people as Scum, one of which was NK’ed, one who claimed Cop (with no CC), and the other one who was the result of a check.

I also don’t get what being stubborn has anything to do with it. Flavor and Shellyc are stubborn, yes. So am I. So is Titus. What’s your point?

If you ask me, I think Flavor needs to more conclusively demonstrate why nopoint makes sense as the execution. There were some arguments about how the votes stacked up, but it’s an inscrutable argument because it has to assume that Flavor is Town, and no one knows that but Flavor. If you noticed, Flavor was voted yesterday by a Confirmed Town, and by Dunn/Not_Mafia at one point. Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

^see 720. And that was about you unwnd, not nopoint. That last paragraph.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like Unwnd is also trying to match his progression of me in Xenoblade, but I think it looks fake.

Him and I went at it all Day 1 there, then Day 2 he town read me, and I town read there.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have you considering me scum, Dunnstral/Not Mafia will hop on. Im sure Unwnd will hop on. Plus has stated their willingness, Nopoint is voting me, and Andres is setting up a turn as well.

Who do you have?

My gamestate analysis might have been incredibly correct. Nopoint/Unwnd/Andres setup was there to gain momentum on me. I felt it a lot at the time.

[Flavor Leaf]

1.04

Flavor Leaf

[3]: nopointinactingup#293, unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343

1.05

Flavor Leaf

[4]: unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343, Titus#503, Not_Mafia#509

Not_Mafia [2]:

Hank Spankems#69, PlusJOYED#365

Dunnstral

[3]:

Flavor Leaf#381,

Andresvmb#403, nopointinactingup#548

1.06

shellyc [3]: nopointinactingup#599,

Titus#638

, JohnnyFarrar#647

Flavor Leaf

[4]: unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343, Titus#503, Not_Mafia#509

Unwnd is scum by VCA. 1.04 to 1.05 no point looks like scum trying to get off the wagon that looks to be gaining, but the Not Mafia wagon likely has a scum on it, which does fit with my Plus theory.

Like even if someone thought I was scum, Unwnd is scum based on 1.05/1.06, where another scum is in the other 4, at least 1.

You can look at the unflipped here and see it's exactly how my reads list lined up which is what helped me get to the spot I was at.

hmmm

why cant you believe that your wagon was all town?

because scum don't let town me go like that. Nopoint likely jumped off of me because they thought I might be able to get momentum from townies, and another scum was already on me.

like, i guess scum could have just been mia, but i highly doubt we're living in a world where Nopoint/Unwnd are both town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm hoping the 3 conf townies will vote together

the council will decide your fate

Honestly, you guys don't deserve to decide the fate if you ever think I can be scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

So are you trying to argue here that I was in some sort of cahoots with unwnd to eliminate you Flavor?

If you are scum, that's literally the game. I don't understand the purpose of this question

[Flavor Leaf]

Johnny is town because I know how he plays as scum, plus he’s actually been communicating with me, unlike the many people in this thread who completely ignores my line of questioning

I think your perception is biased. I think Johnny is playing strictly UTR and intentionally so. I haven't seen him really push anyone and to keep it simple he mostly posts fluff.

My perception IS biased because of a few reasons, one of which is that from my understanding of Johny scum he will push tangential wagons in an opportunistic way.

There were some arguments about how the votes stacked up, but it’s an inscrutable argument because it has to assume that Flavor is Town, and no one knows that but Flavor. If you noticed, Flavor was voted yesterday by a Confirmed Town, and by Dunn/Not_Mafia at one point. Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

Andres is the only voice of reason in this game. Most of FL's argument is predicated on the fact that he's town and therefore not really reliable. I also don't trust any of his reads, unwd and me are both town.

Why do you think we no-limmed yesterday? This is slightly rhetorical. It's because people can't decide what they want, and I believe this is

because

of predetermined elims. Like, people say 'I want X' as an example but getting your lim requires a bit more effort. There's not really anyone doing that and instead it's a lot of passivity which I'm starting to think is intentional. It's getting hard for me to distinguish posts between players because of this.

In regards to stubbornness, it attributes to the gamestate. You have people who are self-assured with just saying someone is scum is enough for others to simply agree and then accumulate votes. It's not that I'm requiring walls or deep intricate analysis, it's that I require some some sort of thought pattern to follow along with. I don't really feel like you answered my question and instead with 'well shelly does this'. Strip away your preconceived notions of shelly and tell me if she would make sense as scum just by the amount of attention she's accrued already.

This is a fair point, in that case do you have any particular reads in mind who's intentionally making the game passive?

^see 720. And that was about you unwnd, not nopoint. That last paragraph.

ah, okay, this is better.

Yeah, I already stated my Unwnd reasoning with my VCA.

I am 90% sure Unwnd is scum, and I would have been okay flipping them with a coinflip odds.

Are there any other particular reason why you think unwd is scum? I don't really trust VCAs alone because it's a concept that I use as scum sometimes. The problem with it is that it presupposed you are town and so you can draw all sorts of conclusion to your benefit.

I'm a Vigilante Enabler.

If anyone ever thinks I claim this scummy ass role as scum here, we're gonna have some words post game.

FL's claim is interesting. The claim itself is towny but I'm willing to bet FL is the type of person who gambits all sorts of things as scum.

cuz my first flawless scum win on site was a game where nopo and Johnny were my scum buddies.

*** Reliving memories ***

[Flavor Leaf]

I could still go unwnd, but if it's not gonna be Hank, I have no reason to defend the null slot.

Could wait for replacement, or kill now before replace comes in. this isnt that long of a game, though, so I think we just wait for replacement.

VOTE: Unwnd

I thought about your post Insano and it made me want to prove you wrong

this one is actually really strong, I feel

[Flavor Leaf]

trying to get a handle on the game before the long holidays.

first, titus didn't have any votes on them the whole of yesterday.

today:: noraa's votes seem are just ignorable. I cannot get a read on that slot at all.
nopoint's are mirroring Dunnstral's

looking at the votes yesterday, JohnnyF's were where I wanted to start. 3 of the last 9 were their's, so wanted to see how likely there were to be scum trying to get a free elimination

Dunn, Unwnd, Not Mafia, and Nopoint all have wagons that aren’t able to gain momentum.

There is scum in there.

Lez do this

VOTE: nopoint

I'm back.

Let's actually do this
VOTE: not maf

And if you don't wanna, tell me why not.

VOTE: shelz

I basically hate these votes. and their day 2 play is not much better. I am happy to mark them down as pretty suspicious, esp as one of the 3 people they tried to kill yesterday was Not Mafia who we have as a clear today.

NExt, wi wanted ot look at anyone else who was trying to push any elimination at the end of day 1, NoPoint is the only other one I wanted to check.

548 is a long explanation oof why Dunnstral is scum. and then 599 is a vote for Shelly (now Noraa). the switch from Dunn to Shelly got 2 votes to follow, could have switched back to Dunn at deadline neared to get some more momentum up to 4 votes...
I dunno. I am really stretching there. I can see it scummy if I want to, but day 2 I am going to give them a pass for now.

NoPoint, I think had votes on 4 different people yesterday, today there isn't anything strong about their feelings from what I can see. the vote for hank is to just get rid of a low activity slot. post 851 is very wishy washy

Plusjoyed - a low activity slot day 1. post 726 is useful to peg on them their future changes in reads, but that is pretty much the sum of them. I could see them being scum and their low activity day 1 being one of the reasons nothing got pushed to a successful elimination.

Unwnd - dislike their votes from yesterday. the vote of Flavour asking for shelly for opinion. a vote out of howhere on Hank. leans summy to me but like a lot of players there isn't much to go on.

fuzzy logic - ah man, another slot I can't read well. I do like their vote on unwnd today, but that is a much as I have.

boy, this is hard work trying to read people. I think I am going to VOTE: Nopoint but i'd go to Unwnd too

I am a total idiot. I meant to
VOTE: johnnyf
not the one I did. please ignore totally that previous error.

this is something

[Flavor Leaf]

@Andres - You just saw me take out threats nonstop in a game, why would I make my wagon flip more townies on my own wagon?

Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

like why?

Why wouldn't I?

Consider me confirmed town for a second, give me 2 reasons why I wouldn't, andres.

No I get it. I understand why you would perceive the game the way that you are. I would just a different argument. I can’t be convinced about something if the only way to get me to see something is by literally knowing what you know. Does that make sense?

Andres defending my pushes against scum again

[Flavor Leaf]

My read on Johnny is only part of the reason why I’m confident he’s town. I also think FL’s claim is true, though not necessarily town

I feel there's a lot of focus on Johnny and I today and in my position that's really a sign that we are going to lynch town or have a no elim again. There's a high chance we're being put in this position by the scum team.

Plus, you are trying to change the game state and pushing for something so I have a feeling that you might be town, albeit misguided. I don't see where you're going with the framing theory when both Johnny and I already either implied or stated our unwillingness to lim Nora today. Do you think a scum-team would entirely change strategy just because a friend replaced in?

I personally think the Titus kill even made Shelly less likely to be scum as smart scum often go for subtle kills instead of direct threats. So I could also re-use your argument for you masterminding the kill here to implicated me and Johnny.

I'm going to entertain the thought that you're right about Shelly's playstyle then the one behind the Titus kill here should be in the sidelines and inactive, waiting for town to suicide on Night Kill Analysis. There is no need for scum to pick sides when lim on either side benefits them, and the stale state of this game is looking like it's something like that. Among my biggest suspects for this scenario are FL, Hank (before the replacement) and geraint due solely to their inactivity and that's why I'm pressuring people with votes to get some inputs on where they are.

Particularly, I feel FL disappearing off the map as soon as pressure disappears off him is scummy. Scum vig-enabler is a very possible reality.

this is a good one

[Flavor Leaf]

The biggest ?'s I have towards my pile is a bit vain. It's strange to find myself in a position where I feel a decent amount of ire (towards myself) from those I suspect.

Nopoint - I cannot follow half of the things you're doing. We had a spat and then you sorta fucked off afterwards. I wrote it off because I can't make you engage me but thus far a lot of your presence feels inapplicable. You speak with such in such a self-assured way yet results speak otherwise. My concern from a fleeting D1 thought is that this feels fabricated, and I don't want to see you lean on self-meta because that will always be a crapshoot. I actually don't even know why you started to townread me honestly if I think about it

Andres - I like your analyzing but it's becoming just busywork in my eyes. We've traded paragraphs yet your hesitance to vote is the most striking. Where do your commitments lie and how long does it take to get there? I am the most willing to be wrong on you as I feel your approach is quite similar to mine, only that I know when I'm scum a lot of my angle is just producing wordy semantics as a means to be townread for effort lol

I don't have many words about Gera, his posting doesn't seem further inspection tbh

this should confirm that it's one of Andres or Geraint.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Andres - You just saw me take out threats nonstop in a game, why would I make my wagon flip more townies on my own wagon?

Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

like why?

Why wouldn't I?

Consider me confirmed town for a second, give me 2 reasons why I wouldn't, andres.

No I get it. I understand why you would perceive the game the way that you are. I would just a different argument. I can’t be convinced about something if the only way to get me to see something is by literally knowing what you know. Does that make sense?

Andres defending my pushes against scum again

This is a stretch even for you.

I'm just doing possibilities.

If you are scum, I am 100% correct.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fade Noraa, Vig Nopoint, or fade Nopoint, Vig Noraa.

that's where I'm at.

Unwnd vs FL tomorrow if no scum flips, happy to go through the weaker scums to get Unwnd here.

Unwnd/Nopoint were scum trying to fade me yesterday, ShellyC was town reading me hard to counter.

I think Insano's efforts are town even if the read is largely based on tone difference from the last game. Why do you exactly

know

I'm scum. I don't feel that evidence is provided nor will you ever give it

This is why arguing with you is pointless, and I'm not looking forward to you forcing me into a 1v1 even if you're scum

Insano is the Hank slot.

Noraa is shelly slot.

I will give it Day 3, you are sitting in a spot currently of "FL is correct but for the wrong reasons", and I quite like that.

You have Dunn fooled, though, which is why I've accepted going elsewhere.

[Flavor Leaf]

Do you really believe I would have trusted unwnd as the deep wolf? If I’m Scum I’ve played it a lot better. I would have used whatever clout I had left with you to try and direct the shot away from the Team, not towards my Partner. The Scum are in a horrendous position right now, where they have to win 2 1v1s to win. Nobody would willingly put themselves here.

good point. I do think since like me and andres were the only people who really suspected uwnd so I think maf may have tried to set them up as the deepwolf. I think reverse psychology isn't really your style but I haven't seen you play scum yet either.
I guess that implicates FL more. Starting to TL gera a bit more too but I'd be pissed if gera won as maf playing as he has been. Hope we can avoid another heated argument over a game.

I keep flip flopping I'm gonna step back and take a break for a day or so and hear what dunn thinks.

k, just be bad then.

[Flavor Leaf]

i'm like fucking confirmed town

[Flavor Leaf]

@Andres - You just saw me take out threats nonstop in a game, why would I make my wagon flip more townies on my own wagon?

Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

like why?

Why wouldn't I?

Consider me confirmed town for a second, give me 2 reasons why I wouldn't, andres.

No I get it. I understand why you would perceive the game the way that you are. I would just a different argument. I can’t be convinced about something if the only way to get me to see something is by literally knowing what you know. Does that make sense?

Andres defending my pushes against scum again

This is a stretch even for you.

I'm just doing possibilities.

If you are scum, I am 100% correct.

What is going on with you? And if I’m Town? Have you stopped and considered that what you’re doing is ruinous if we’re actually the same alignment?

Doing “possibilities” is dumb. There’s 1 Scum left. And the options are extremely limited, from either one of our points of view. Commit. If you think I’m Scum vote me then.

No it fucking isn't.

There's fucking one of two scum left. It's you or fucking Geraint. I'm going to case both of you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Don't give me that possibilities is dumb crap. I will fucking case both of you.

[Flavor Leaf]

what's going fucking on is I'm fucking obviously town and had a strong fucking game, and yet players who can't analyze games correctly are going to cost the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Entire fucking back and forth of Unwnd trying to discredit me

Spoiler:

If your vote is on me I don't accept that as 'going elsewhere' lol

@Dunn - Can we fade Nora, Vig Nopoint?

or vice versa.

If your vote is on me I don't accept that as 'going elsewhere' lol

Makes sense you see a vote as an end all be all.

The one game we've been in together as town you were very adamant in your votes and obnoxiously so

You're bartering for time at this point

The one game we've been in together as town you were very adamant in your votes and obnoxiously so

You're bartering for time at this point

so, you can check other town games, i actively play games differently.

Which is why it's hilarious when people go "flavor does this as blah, does this as blah"

Still waiting on your shelly slot thoughts

Right you're just an enigma and I'm a fool for attempting to reason with you carry on

Still waiting on your shelly slot thoughts

Not a priority today and I'm not sure where (correct if I'm wrong) you've insinuated we have partner equity together

I'm pushing for a Noraa/Nopoint fade/vig, while pushing you as scum.

Only reason it's equity is because you are scum here.

Right you're just an enigma and I'm a fool for attempting to reason with you carry on

Nah, I'm super readable, I just find it incredibly poor for people to try to meta me as a be all end all after playing one or two games with me, as one alignment.

I already think meta is supplementary at best.

Right you're just an enigma and I'm a fool for attempting to reason with you carry on

Nah, I'm super readable, I just find it incredibly poor for people to try to meta me as a be all end all after playing one or two games with me, as one alignment.

I already think meta is supplementary at best.

OK Know that my townread on you is a disservice to myself and if we both happen to be alive tommorow I'm willing to destroy the thread if it means taking you down

And NopointScum was pushing me while ShellyScum was towning me.

That's a classic hyena.

[Flavor Leaf]

I do think since like me and andres were the only people who really suspected uwnd

get the hell out of here. I was pushing fucking Unwnd since Day fucking 1, and only stopped because of fucking Nora.

[Flavor Leaf]

I do think since like me and andres were the only people who really suspected uwnd

get the hell out of here. I was pushing fucking Unwnd since Day fucking 1, and only stopped because of fucking Nora.

This was at Plus, not you, NM.

[Flavor Leaf]

what's going fucking on is I'm fucking obviously town and had a strong fucking game, and yet players who can't analyze games correctly are going to cost the game.

And yet you’re pushing me so clearly you’re not immune to this nonsense then.

Honestly I care less about finding scum at this point, because me proving I am town wins the game for scum 100% of the time.

[Flavor Leaf]

what's going fucking on is I'm fucking obviously town and had a strong fucking game, and yet players who can't analyze games correctly are going to cost the game.

All this ranting and raving still just comes across as scum caught for 'wrong' reasons

seriously, shut the hell up

[Flavor Leaf]

i dont give a damn if im caught as scum for the wrong reasons, that's just part of the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Do you really believe I would have trusted unwnd as the deep wolf? If I’m Scum I’ve played it a lot better. I would have used whatever clout I had left with you to try and direct the shot away from the Team, not towards my Partner. The Scum are in a horrendous position right now, where they have to win 2 1v1s to win. Nobody would willingly put themselves here.

good point. I do think since like me and andres were the only people who really suspected uwnd so I think maf may have tried to set them up as the deepwolf. I think reverse psychology isn't really your style but I haven't seen you play scum yet either.
I guess that implicates FL more. Starting to TL gera a bit more too but I'd be pissed if gera won as maf playing as he has been. Hope we can avoid another heated argument over a game.

I keep flip flopping I'm gonna step back and take a break for a day or so and hear what dunn thinks.

Like seriously, this was your worst post of the game.

Unwnd vs FL was the biggest fucking 1v1 in the game

[Flavor Leaf]

it's like 50% chance Nora/Nopoint for me, which is coin flip odds, but still I think it's a good path to go. I'm confident with a coinflip this early on, especially considering we haven't faded.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: unwnd

I’ll place this here for now.

The explanation in my head is a bit whacky, but I’ve yet to be able to identify Scum D1 on this forum, so I am trying to think outside of the box. I think unwnd was taking too strong a stance in the Dunnstral v. Nopointinactingup dust up between 94 and 105, while leaving Dunn as a Null Read in 149. One way to interpret this could be of Scum that is eager to encourage a fight between two Town, while leaving the other player for a future push if they’re wrong. Outside of that, I don’t find unwnd’s posts particularly Scummy, so it’s a hard one.

Also, I think shellyc is asking the right questions so I’ll maintain my TR there.

This was my first vote in the game.

Like Flavor I really don’t understand what you’re doing. You’re not the only one that decided that unwnd could be Scum D1. If anything you were trying to convince me that Dunn was Scum and wouldn’t join me on unwnd.

Read the majority of Day 2.

[Flavor Leaf]

It makes absolutely zero fucking sense for me to ever be scum here, especially after posting like this.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just think you're scum who wins in a 1v1 against me tomorrow 100% of the time because surface level Not Mafia and Plusjoyed

[Flavor Leaf]

what's going fucking on is I'm fucking obviously town and had a strong fucking game, and yet players who can't analyze games correctly are going to cost the game.

And yet you’re pushing me so clearly you’re not immune to this nonsense then.

It's not the same at all.

I legit caught Nopoint/Unwnd for a time, and lead the Nopoint wagon in a way that is extremely unbeneficial towards a scum wincon.

[Flavor Leaf]

You have consistently been helping Nopoint and Unwnd getting out of situations.

You consistently tried to derail my Nopoint wagon saying "I needed better reasons" when my reasons were 100% accurate and correct.

[Flavor Leaf]

But surface level Plus and Not Mafia never will see that, and I want every single piece of evidence in their face, so they can wallow about it post game after they cause the loss.

[Flavor Leaf]

You have consistently been helping Nopoint and Unwnd getting out of situations.

You consistently tried to derail my Nopoint wagon saying "I needed better reasons" when my reasons were 100% accurate and correct.

This is just not true. I questioned your wagon analysis because it hinged 100% on the knowledge that you were Town from your POV. The way you are painting it is just sad to be honest.

It doesn't matter if I was scum there, Unwnd is still scum by VCA.

My Unwnd reasoning 100% correct.

My Nopoint reasoning 100% correct.

You defended both of them.

[Flavor Leaf]

The right play when nopoint was so obviously going to get executed (I mean I even mentioned this) would have been to bus. You know it, and I know it. And yet, I decided to stick out like a sore thumb. That’s nonsensical as Scum.

Bussing would have looked bad for jumping on late, and you know it.

[Flavor Leaf]

I stand by that still. If Geraint is scum, I'm 100% correct and that would have been a better vig shot than Unwnd.

[Flavor Leaf]

Don't call Geraint scum then act like that's a bad vig shot. You're playing into NM's surface levelness.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yet unwnd actually flipped Scum. So what you’re saying is just wrong. That was obviously a terrific shot.

this is a misrep. I didn't say Unwnd wasn't a great shot.

Geraint would have been a better shot, if Geraint is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yet unwnd actually flipped Scum. So what you’re saying is just wrong. That was obviously a terrific shot.

this is literally a fucking scum slip. You're pushing Geraint as fucking scum, and then try to discredit me when I say Geraint, a scum that would be confirmed to allow Plus to keep their vig shot, is by far a better shot than the Unwnd one. It would have been a guaranteed victory if Geraint is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like you’re acting like you haven’t made a single mistake and all you’ve been pushing is Scum. It’s just not true. And it’s annoying that you claim that all I’ve done is defend nopoint and unwnd. I’m not going to just let that stand. It’s utterly incorrect.

I haven't.

A wrong read isn't a mistake.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's not all you've done, that's another misrep.

You've done it consistently, and specifically when I was pushing them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Are you seriously going to try and paint a post of mine as a Scum slip? C’mon now you can do better than that.

it's obviously never gonna fucking pass as a scum slip, like there's no point to this post or the one I did.

Like come on, you're still fucking discrediting.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not Mafia's not good enough, and Plusjoyed isn't experienced enough.

You won.

I'm going to make sure they feel it post game how obviously fucking town I am.

[Flavor Leaf]

Don't call Geraint scum then act like that's a bad vig shot. You're playing into NM's surface levelness.

I was far more suspicious of unwnd. If you can’t even at least acknowledge that, then you’re just intent on making me look bad for the sake of it.

What does this have to do with anything? This isn't even what's being argued.

[Flavor Leaf]

Replacing Out

[Flavor Leaf]

I need to leave.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm conceding. I got way too triggered. Game's over. I was scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Good job, town.

6th scum game in a fucking row.

[Flavor Leaf]

My bad on the last few pages. It was a combination of a lot of things.

[Flavor Leaf]

I spoke only of playstyle and ability.

Everything I say in a game will be genuine, and on a game related focus.

[Flavor Leaf]

So why did the Scum shoot there and not you? I also don’t get that.

i shut my mind off around Day 1 in this game, and it hasn't come back since.

[Flavor Leaf]

Johnny's role is what did it. He was able to guilty me.

[Flavor Leaf]

the kill there, i meant, was the downfall.

[Flavor Leaf]

To be fair, I'm anti bus for a reason.

I just low energy'd this game, kept in present, until the end of course.

I can't play 6 scum games in a row, it just makes it super unnatural after a minute.

This game also had essentially a full list of players who had been beaten by me too, so it was like, extra hard there too, which explained my no energy Day 1.

Then I really did get disinterested when I saw Noraa replace the slot that I had hard pocketed, so that sucked that that whole thing happened.

[Flavor Leaf]

for no reason at all.

definitely a reason.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL's play was extremely dishonorable.

Nah, I think your entire play is dishonorble, and you can't handle actual criticism.

[Flavor Leaf]

hello all.
sorry if my extreme passitivity (i never voted Day 3 or Day 1) and uselessness was annoying. i did struggle, and the mid part of the game which degenerated into that weird 10 page back and forths made it very hard to want to keep up.
Watcher just seems so meh for Scum.

What happened end of Day 1, was there any particulr reason SCum couldn't get a miselimination through?

I thought you were super townie, for what it's worth.

[Flavor Leaf]

I was burnt out from playing scum, so I wasn't paying attention to deadline.

Unwnd was already the top poster at the time.

Town literally just was so inactive, a wagon didn't get pushed, lol