Tracking Karma (manually as of now)

[RedCoyote]

In general, I think replace outs should count regardless of circumstances. That's why the word karma is so fitting because, you know, life happens and sometimes you drop from a game. You're letting down your Mod and your team, so it should necessarily be stigmatized and frowned upon, hence bad karma. The way you redeem yourself? Replace into games. There's always need, so there's no excuse not to. You didn't fulfill your end of the bargin with one game, but at least you can help another game. That evens it out. That brings balance. You make people happy. Good karma. It's something to strive for.

What if you replace out but are able to find a replacement for yourself so the Mod doesn't have to and there's no "downtime" with the slot? It doesn't happen very often (I think I've only see it happen once or twice in games I've been in), but I think that would be the only way I'd excuse otherwise bad karma.

[DeasVail]

It's always going to be difficult to make something like this a perfect representation of reliability, but maybe just having a general idea is good enough without adding all the fancy clauses (obviously force replacements for reasons not to do with the player in question should be excluded though).

Anyway,

Non-Newbie In: 20 (24 if you incl. alts, but yeah idk)
Newbie In: 6
Newbie Out: 0
Non-Newbie Out: 2

3.66 (4.00 with alts)

Those replace-outs are killing me!

[Mr. Flay]

I think you could probably halve/discount the penalty if it's something like a forced-replacement because of somebody else's error (PlayerY PMs you something game-breaking, you have to replace out, that's in no way your fault) or a situation where you find your own replacement, though that gets awfully subjective awfully fast.

[talah]

*sigh*

Last thing Imma say about this, it just seems like needless obfuscation to me anyway. Maybe I'm oversensitive 'cause I've needed to replace out of a few games.

The formula to me, seems arbitrary. Why are replace-ins treated with a square-root? Is there any validity to that choice, or any association with reality?

Why are newbie games treated with a doubling? Is that realistic, or arbitrary?

The closest I've seen to reasonable is Pless' suggestion that replace-in replace-out stats are *just there on the page* without even needing some kind of strange index which is more like a hedge-fund calculation than any honest indicator which might let mods or players know who's likely to replace out in future.

Like geez guys. Why don't you just expand scummies to include significant contributors each year?
Rather than naming and shaming based on a formula which doesn't even have a basis in reality.

Since I'm not posting again in this thread:
*every single game I've replaced out of, the circumstances I would defend to the hilt and I feel bad for letting my fellow players and mods down - and I personally PMed each mod at the time regarding the circumstances and apologised about it*
*the mathematics proposed are arbitrary and have nothing to do with how joins, replace-ins and replace-outs actually affect the enjoyability of MafiaScum. They ignore games joined from scratch and completed, and the quality of the gameplay*
*the formula makes it almost impossible for folks who have previously been flakers, to turn over a new leaf. The formula is Dr. Phil on steroids.*
*the formula is designed by an OP who is obviously proud of his own record and therefore is not affected by the strange squared negative scale of the subtraction component of the formula.*

Sorry Cabd but I really sense an unfairness to people who want to change, and/or have been doing their best, and I really despise the idea of a floating red mark on any players. That's what site-bans are about. Karma is NOT anything to do with what your calc would brand on people.

[pieguyn]

I've only replaced out on D1 and I try to do it as early as possible
does that count for anything

[ObsessedWithCats]

Hows about a two number score of ins in the past year and outs in the past year? It'd still flag serial flakers (especially those who flake from several games at once), but it wont stain someone's record long term if they have to legitimately replace out a couple of times. It'd encourage people to replace in occasionally to maintain the in score and distinguish the two main reasons for having an overall neutral score. Everyone gets a pair of positive integer numbers, nice and neat.

Mine would be: i3o0

The biggest problem I see with that is keeping it current for players who've been around more than a year, but you'd still have to update it every time you replace in or out so you could just check if any passed the one year mark while you're at it.

[kanyeknowsbest]

cabbo can you liost my karma as69 ty

[talah]

Hows about a two number score of ins in the past year and outs in the past year? It'd still flag serial flakers (especially those who flake from several games at once), but it wont stain someone's record long term if they have to legitimately replace out a couple of times. It'd encourage people to replace in occasionally to maintain the in score and distinguish the two main reasons for having an overall neutral score. Everyone gets a pair of positive integer numbers, nice and neat.

This is not a bad idea if some kind of index is wanted.

You could *shock* even include ongoing games in this kind of non-specific stat, and it's simple. Put a weighting of 1.4 or 1.8 or something more significant on the karma value of Newbie games and track it like so:

Ins: 28
Outs: 5
Karma: (either a number or a set of named indicators)

You could have high-tier karma-gods get awards at scummies time and have bad performance fall off after a refresh period.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

newbie in (5): 660, 665, 708, 1282, 1310
newbie out ():
in (15): mini 701, 707, 757, 815, 826, 1055, 1069, 1338, 1525 open 93, 228, 260, large 89, HP/philostone, song contest.
out (3): purified mafia, mini 1526, 1537

4.69. happy.

Nope, that's a 2 via the awkward scoring system. SQRT(15 + (2*5)) - 3 = 2.

[mykonian]

oooh, the games you go out are outside the sqrt. That makes more sense.

Still. Happy.

[Cheery Dog]

Would cube rooting games joined and completed from the start make this less negative based, and still helping the community by allowing modes to mod their games?

[Elscouta]

I think the sqrt(Replace-In) should be T*sqrt(Replace-In / T) in order to normalize the karma with number of games played where T is related to the number of games played (i suggest "0.04 * number_games_played", possibly "1 + 0.04*number_games_played" if you don't want very high karmas for low number of games played / high replace-ins). Because with the current system, if i played 20 games, 5 replace-in, 2 replace-out, i have positive karma. If i do the same thing again and go to 40 games, 10 replace-in, 4 replace-out, i get negative karma.

This doesn't sound very right.

[yessiree]

Also don't see the point of a single score here. This system also doesn't take into consideration the number of games completed successfully, which is quite a significant quality of about a player. If the goal of this is to introduce a karma system, then completed games should be positive.

Consider the scenario: (for the sake of simplicity, newbie games are omitted)
-user A has 50 games completed successfully, 15 replace-ins, and 7 replace-outs
-user B has 5 games completed successfully, 3 replace-ins, and 1 replace-outs

Under this system:
-user A has a score of -3.13
-user B has a score of 0.73

Just by looking at this single number, user B is the preferred choice if they are fighting for a spot in a game. But that doesn't necessarily mean user B has a less chance to replace-out than user A, given the number of games both players have completed successfully.

While I agree to the idea that replacing out games without significant circumstance should have a permanent effect on players involved, I just don't see the point of having a single score and the exclusion of games completed.

[BROseidon]

Mod kills and situations that you can't control (i.e., your slot getting modkilled or forced replace b/c of the actions of another player) should count differently, and the whole thing should probably be treated as a ratio with overall games completed or games completed where you played from the start.

[Aegor]

I still do not see why the ratio is relevant to a mod who does not want players replacing out at all.

[yessiree]

because completing a game from start to finish is an indication that you are less likely to replace out?

come on, make the connections

edit: let me re-word that: having a large number of games completed from start to finish is an indication you are less likely to replace out, and showing the number of games that you have completed will be an indicator of that

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Mod kills and situations that you can't control (i.e., your slot getting modkilled or forced replace b/c of the actions of another player) should count differently, and the whole thing should probably be treated as a ratio with overall games completed or games completed where you played from the start.

I wouldn't consider these voluntary replacements though. The whole point is to determine how likely a player is to voluntarily replace out. Of course things like breaking the rules resulting in a modkill or mistreating others resulting in a force replacement should be taken into consideration, but that's something different in my opinion.

[Aegor]

come on, make the connections

I still do not see why the ratio is relevant to a mod who does not want players replacing out

at all

.

Showing the number of completed games is certainly helpful, but I would not want the raw score normalized.

[yessiree]

I do not see why you do not see it is not relevant

if a player has completed 90 out of 100 games successfully, it is a strong indication and has significant relevance to a mod that the player in particular will not replace

at all

but if you really don't wanna display the total numbers (for good reasons), then maybe just show the status of a player's last 5 games

[RichardGHP]

That's why the word karma is so fitting because, you know, life happens and sometimes you drop from a game. You're letting down your Mod and your team, so it should necessarily be stigmatized and frowned upon, hence bad karma.

Could just be me, but these two sentences seem to be in conflict with each other.

[Guyett]

Since I signed up I've replaced into 8 newbie games and 6 none newbie games. I haven't replaced out of any.

Guyett 6 8 0 0 4.69

[Aristophanes]

Your karma score is calculated by a simple formula:

SQRT{(replace ins)+(2*Replace ins newbie games)} - {Replace outs + (2* (Replace outs newbie games))}

"Simple"
(Actually, it is once you realize sqrt is square root)

Aristophanes

Ins: 45
Ins (Newbie): 3
Outs: 10
Outs (Newbie): 0
Karma Score: 6.7

I think I'm doing alright

Ftr I've had this bookmarked for like 3 years now but I never had the stats to plug in.
Now that my games history is up to date on my Wiki I can finally calculate it! =D

[Ircher]

Wow, this is kind of cool. Maybe I can track this to an extent with my Player Ratings. I already keep track of the necessary info. (Ofc, if I did, it comes with the sane caveat as the ratings: I only track games I was in or modded.)

[Aristophanes]

Wow, this is kind of cool. Maybe I can track this to an extent with my Player Ratings. I already keep track of the necessary info. (Ofc, if I did, it comes with the sane caveat as the ratings: I only track games I was in or modded.)

That link brought me to a blank page...

But yeah, I used my Wiki info to do this in mere minutes! Highly recommended if you have the info available

[Ircher]

That's because I wrote the link incorrectly. It should work now.