Open 802: Jungle Oligarchy [Game Over]

[MURDERCAT]

Ego will be reading stuff later probably

VOTE: Taly!

[MURDERCAT]

Also if someone could explain how to actually approach this setup that would be great. I'm guessing wolves first and try to go into good nightless numbers is ideal because there won't be cross kills? But I'm not sure how we actually manage to control that

[MURDERCAT]

Well I gathered that much

[MURDERCAT]

Hopefully this will go better than our last two attempts

[MURDERCAT]

I mean yeah fair enough, I guess I'm just waiting for BM to come tell us all what to do lol

[MURDERCAT]

Do I know your main

Also lol at Taly wagon

[MURDERCAT]

Isn't it E-2?

[MURDERCAT]

If I answer will you unambiguously sheep my opinions under a pretense of status?

How could I say no

[MURDERCAT]

The answer is yes then, welcome to the coalition

Now there's a game in the game

[MURDERCAT]

what was your goal with the wagon?

Hey I was first, I just RVS'd
I agree with the logic that you are probably town because I think that there's a lot of townies who get uncomfortable with early wagons because ??? So I think there is scum voting here, it's just probability. But also you could still be scum with other scum voting for you, in 2172 I made that mistake.

I'm also not sure what the scum motivation is for accelerating your wagon because obviously we aren't going to yeet you.
Or maybe we do but anyone who hammers is scum claiming. I'm assuming a 1 for 1 is still good in this setup so I'll miss you if that were to happen but I think I'd still take it

[MURDERCAT]

Reasonable assessment, but who are the scum and is it townled at all?

This is kind of weird to me though, I started the wagon and I still wouldn't consider it to be town led. No one had posted yet, it's random led

[MURDERCAT]

I think I'll take your word for it that BM does that as any alignment, but that seems like a reason to not give him a pass for his vote lol. I think his is worse than plus, who was basically just RVSing with me. Does town Titus prefer to accelerate a wagon to generate data or let it form naturally to avoid impacting the data? I've played with Titus a bit recently but none of the games had both of us in from the start so I don't know

[MURDERCAT]

Oh sorry Titus, I'm usually better about catching that stuff.

[MURDERCAT]

what's your take on my response to the official L1 i am at? and to all those who have posted since BM's vote?

I think I'm not clear about what you are asking with the first part of this.
As to the second part, I want Titus/Klyne to work itself out before I comment on it, but I have thoughts there.

[MURDERCAT]

Kylne, your response?

[MURDERCAT]

This seems like a good enough time to weigh in.
I don't get how you can ever have a tone read on someone whose meta you don't know.

[MURDERCAT]

1- taly is the main characters name (but needs 1 extra l) from a medicore young adult fiction series I read in middle school that I enjoyed. I was going to make a reference but then realized no one would get the reference and this made me angry. in my rage i voted taly

This is actually hilarious

[MURDERCAT]

The game within the game is heating up

[MURDERCAT]

Fair enough

[MURDERCAT]

im asking you if any of my content so far is AI in your eyes

After Kanna's game, no
Maybe I will ask you directly, what do you think your tells are? Because you seemed really solvey as scum still.

[MURDERCAT]

You are the best Taly

Focus on avoiding mislims.

This is close to my strategy which unfortunately tends to be "Focus on miselims"

This kind of tracks with something I noticed and was kind of pointing at in 40 and 41. Like your questions to me didn't really seem to have a purpose? Whereas I felt like in Kanna's game you were more precise in a way (which is the opposite of most players probably). It was weak so I didn't think it was worth commenting on but I thought I would mention it now that this post kind of prompts it. Maybe I will put in enough effort to read the games you linked if we both make it past the first couple of days. (Though I'll probably read the perfect scum win just for fun at some point.)

Anyway I am leaning to a TR on you and leaning to an SR on titus so

VOTE: Titus

[MURDERCAT]

I could be wrong, but based on Death Curse I think that Titus struggles to fake solve as scum like she does when she is town (not that I'm expecting that right now, that's just my overall feeling). I don't feel like I've seen her comment on stuff like tone before?? But like I said lack of experience with her early game etc etc. Also I don't hate voting opposite of Plus right now but I'm getting way too tin foily.

[MURDERCAT]

Save this for later if you want to do you interaction with Klyne more first, but at some point can you give some detail about your Titus TR?

[MURDERCAT]

but the only thoughts are about Titus' comment about tone which happened after he said he had thoughts

These were my thoughts

[MURDERCAT]

Mara I think it's kinda weird you focus on my nonsense posts without commenting on the ones that have actual content in them. Like it kind of seems like your read is "tone is off, not solving" which is whatever but why ignore the posts that are at the very least me discussing the gamestate. If you think I'm just following other people's solves why are you not giving evidence of that.

[MURDERCAT]

I would say that's a pretty good overview of my style for 150 posts into a game

[MURDERCAT]

Taly was a hard TR for me in another game recently despite being scum in a hydra with a kinda scummy partner

[MURDERCAT]

Jackson you are glossing over Titus

[MURDERCAT]

What is your read on Titus?

[MURDERCAT]

mmm

[MURDERCAT]

Titus do you still think Klyne is coming off as fake?

[MURDERCAT]

Klyne's tone is not pinging me. I'm not good at tone reads so I'm not gunna TR an alt for tone, but I disagree with your read there.

"Marashu isn't likely scum"

Agree with this one, at first I thought the read on me was fake to the point that I actually thought it was a reaction test but the followup sounded genuine.

"I townread this" (in reference to BM)

BM has done nothing which is weird to me because my experience is he likes to lead. But also I SR'd BM as town one time and he yelled at me a lot

But I find your question kind of weird because I had to iso dive you to even see if you had any reads other than Klyne. I don't think you've been very vocal about them.

[MURDERCAT]

Plus, let's chat where are you at?

[MURDERCAT]

What do you think of Taly murder?

My heart says Taly is town posting but he's also one of the players I don't trust myself to read well given recent experience.

[MURDERCAT]

Taly was a hard TR for me in another game recently despite being scum in a hydra with a kinda scummy partner

Kanna's game (micro 983 in my wiki)

[MURDERCAT]

What do you think of my wagon?

Like this is a weird thing to ask someone on the wagon right? I don't get where these questions are coming from.

[MURDERCAT]

Maybe from your pov but same as Taly wagon a scummy vote on you isn't that convincing in this setup.

[MURDERCAT]

ORAM and Klick seem like RVS votes at least when they were made. Klyne seems reasonable to me. Obviously I like my vote. I think there is something to be said about Clidd and maybeee ORAM parking a vote but I think you are overstating your point.

What do you make of plus?

[MURDERCAT]

And that better place is Klyne currently?

[MURDERCAT]

Well you're you so I'm not convincing you that your vote is problematic it just seems rather lazy though...

Like ok let's talk about this then. Because of all 5 I think I'm the one most actively engaging you (at least productively).

[MURDERCAT]

I feel like you know me well enough to know my vote on you is not an attempt to eliminate you.

[MURDERCAT]

Also I'm going to sleep but will respond more tomorrow

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah my bottom five are literally the least active five that's garbage.

Lol I was about to say this

[MURDERCAT]

which is why i asked you about scum-murder

FWIW no one, including me, knows what scum murder looks like because I haven't gotten to play it since I've been back

[MURDERCAT]

More thoughts coming soon

[MURDERCAT]

Don't wanna kill jackson, murder, klyne or iamusername I tr them.

Pointed out already but I don't get the username or jackson reads.

[MURDERCAT]

as others town read klick

Has anyone actually expressed a townread on me? I just looked back and couldn't find anyone.

Most of your posts so far have seemed to me like you're more interested in actively shutting down potential reads than developing reads.

Why is that?

ding ding ding

VOTE: Klyne

How does this lead to a TR lol?

[MURDERCAT]

In fact, I feel like there's a lot people that are not even really in the game? Like there is a lot of activity around Titus/Klyne so why does the game feel stale right now

[MURDERCAT]

"Wants it more"

I don't know how common it is and I always forget it

[MURDERCAT]

Are you TRing Titus username?

[MURDERCAT]

TSTBS?

I'm not totally against that argument like some people are but I'm surprised that is your strongest read..

[MURDERCAT]

This is the most fun part of the game. Like you don't know you suck yet. Maybe this is the game I catch all 5 scum on D1???

[MURDERCAT]

So I was kind of hinting that I thought there might be something between Titus and Plus. And then Plus comes in and now Titus and Plus are seemingly at odds. So I think that is weird for sure. But also I think that Plus reads are really bad so I can't really call Titus fake for her posts

I was going to say more but actually let me make a longer post about the overall gamestate because I think that will capture my thoughts better.

[MURDERCAT]

Spoiler: Taly votes

Ego will be reading stuff later probably

VOTE: Taly!

VOTE: taly
murdercat townblock activated

Also if someone could explain how to actually approach this setup that would be great. I'm guessing wolves first and try to go into good nightless numbers is ideal because there won't be cross kills? But I'm not sure how we actually manage to control that

We don't? I'm not sure what you're asking here. We hunt scum, and try to figure it out from there.

VOTE: Taly

Hello old friends and new friends!

I missed you...

VOTE: Taly

VOTE: Taly up the votes, we got ourselves a wagon

Hahahahaha

go big or go home!

VOTE: Taly

now that's E-1

So the taly wagon formed really quickly, which to me says there's probably scum on it just from probability. So now compare to that to Titus votes.

Spoiler: Titus votes

Hi everyone.
VOTE: Titus
The only person I've played with before, on my old account. She was town in one game years ago, so she's obviously going to be scum in this one.

Hopefully this will go better than our last two attempts

Vaguely positive natural feelings from this response? MURDERCAT in general feels active and the right amount of comfortable for this early on, he can be town.

Hello old friends and new friends!

Hello! you're at least 40% of the reason I signed up for this.


So something to keep in mind for this setup is that there are

five

scum. If you're town, in your typical Mini Normal you've got a 1/4 chance of randomly hitting scum, but in this setup those numbers are 5/12 instead. There's a whole lot of scum motivation being pushed around on every page compared to normal.

I'd wager Taly is more likely town than anything, with both scumteams contributing to the wagon somewhere.

VOTE: Titus
You clearly didn't care much about Taly being at E-1 considering you didn't remove your vote.

I lied I want to OMGUS Titus

VOTE: Titus

You are the best Taly

Focus on avoiding mislims.

This is close to my strategy which unfortunately tends to be "Focus on miselims"

This kind of tracks with something I noticed and was kind of pointing at in 40 and 41. Like your questions to me didn't really seem to have a purpose? Whereas I felt like in Kanna's game you were more precise in a way (which is the opposite of most players probably). It was weak so I didn't think it was worth commenting on but I thought I would mention it now that this post kind of prompts it. Maybe I will put in enough effort to read the games you linked if we both make it past the first couple of days. (Though I'll probably read the perfect scum win just for fun at some point.)

Anyway I am leaning to a TR on you and leaning to an SR on titus so

VOTE: Titus

Page 1>

- Ping on post 8 (mc), it is common sense to know that town only has scumhunt, while the scum side (maf, ww) needs to better understand the setup to be able to play properly.

- I didn't like Taly's answer very much and I can understand the increase in votes on him.

Page 2>

- I had a strange feeling reading Jackson's posts, but I don't classify it as ping.

- Positive impression of Klick and MC.

- Taly has not improved in the posts and I feel that Titus is very apathetic in the sense of WIM.

Page 3>

- BM, Klyne and PlusJOYED void.

- Delay on vote by Titus is towny.

Page 4>

- Um, I don't know how to read Taly.

And.. That's it. I don't think I will do more than that. Maybe I'll adapt to the real-time chat.

VOTE: Titus

I'm having many mixfeelings right now, but I want to sort this first ^

The timing here is interesting. The ORAM vote is whatever because that's the first one, but Klick and Klyne jump on to Titus. Klick specifically has the option of adding pressure to Taly and doesn't and Klyne moves from Taly to Titus. So it is kind of a counterwagon, but instead of picking up steam like I would expect if scum were looking to move off Taly it kind of stalls after our votes. And then there's this kind of defense of Titus that I feel like is happening in the thread.

Spoiler: Titus defense

That fake E-1 (and the follow-up post) felt pretty genuine.

What is your read on Titus?

Probably null, I just got home so I'm not putting much effort into the game yet fyi.

My "thoughts" earlier were that I wasn't really feeling the Titus wagon anymore, and I don't think she's especially likely to be scum. I left my vote on for a while to see what she'd do, since she hadn't posted in a few pages, and I wanted to see more from her. She's given more, and my vote no longer has a purpose.
UNVOTE:

As for being sheepy and agreeing with other people's ideas, well, guilty as charged. But I actually do agree with them, so I'm not going to say I disagree just for the sake of being original.

VOTE: Battle Mage
I feel like everyone has been leaving him alone like they're saving him for later, and I'd rather start figuring him out now.
What are your thoughts on, well, everyone besides taly? And do you SR me for the same reason as Titus, or for a different reason?

So generally speaking, I think that Titus is a really interesting slot in terms of the game state. At the very least I think there is less likely to be scum on the wagon and I think it's highly unlikely there are scum from both teams. It just kinda feels different to me compared to Taly wagon. That doesn't necessarily make Titus scum, but I think the defense of Titus that is happening isn't warranted. Like there's a few places that I called out Titus asking weird questions and looking through the iso again now there is nothing there that I think says town Titus to me.

This is what I was getting at when I said I wasn't looking at eliming Titus with my vote though. Basically I think this wagon is an important part of the game right now and it existing is helping me sort everyone. These interactions are helping me understand Titus to some degree but I'm particularly interested in how everyone else approaches it.

[MURDERCAT]

I didn't like PlusJOYED's pov much, but I would need someone who knows him better to "clear" me about the slot.

I have played with Plus twice and have tried to elim him both times I think

[MURDERCAT]

Oh ok. Hey bulge!

[MURDERCAT]

Bulge that was a quick replace, have you been following the game?

[MURDERCAT]

Makes sense, looking forward to your catch up because your slot was kinda do nothing to be honest

[MURDERCAT]

You have a TR from plus at least

[MURDERCAT]

I haven't either, is there like some important meta or something we should know?

[MURDERCAT]

as others town read klick

Has anyone actually expressed a townread on me? I just looked back and couldn't find anyone.

Most of your posts so far have seemed to me like you're more interested in actively shutting down potential reads than developing reads.

Why is that?

ding ding ding

VOTE: Klyne

could somebody tell me what WIM means

i haven't come across this acronym before and context clues are not helping me figure it out

not particularly

my strongest read right now is that plusJOYED is town because i can't imagine scum singling me out as a townread off of one pretty mediocre post

Basically half the game is scum how are people giving away free TRs to this iso

[MURDERCAT]

I think in this d1 I'm not gonna overthink stuff since there isn't much to analyze. Normally you can push someone to claim which is a big part of d1 play but here it has no purpose imo. And since town knows the hit list too, we'll have a lot to analyze d2. But for now I'm letting lizard brain do the lifting.

We have a way better chance to hit scum on D1 than normal in this setup, not just because there's a lot of scum but also because scum can actually help us hunt. People giving off easy TRs read like TMI to me or at least not a town mindset. Like 45% of the players you are interacting with are scum in this game!? Why are you not more paranoid??

[MURDERCAT]

Looking at the plist I basically have 3 people I'm ok with and everyone one else is sketch to me still.

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah but your TRs are bad

[MURDERCAT]

I'm the same way, but it's also easier to be right about TRs when town makes up more than half the people you have to sort.

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah but your TRs are bad

How do you know? :O

Well it's that or I'm wrong which has actually never happened before. Nope not ever

[MURDERCAT]

I think I'm pretty widely TR'd all things considered no? I know you and mara expressed doubt but that was all.

[MURDERCAT]

[MURDERCAT]

Not a bad choice considering ORAM is apparently fine with being wagoned
ORAM can you give a readlist or something? You are null for me in a way I don't like because you are actually saying stuff but I feel like you aren't really pushing hard anywhere.

[MURDERCAT]

My "thoughts" earlier were that I wasn't really feeling the Titus wagon anymore, and I don't think she's especially likely to be scum. I left my vote on for a while to see what she'd do, since she hadn't posted in a few pages, and I wanted to see more from her. She's given more, and my vote no longer has a purpose.
UNVOTE:

As for being sheepy and agreeing with other people's ideas, well, guilty as charged. But I actually do agree with them, so I'm not going to say I disagree just for the sake of being original.

VOTE: Battle Mage
I feel like everyone has been leaving him alone like they're saving him for later, and I'd rather start figuring him out now.
What are your thoughts on, well, everyone besides taly? And do you SR me for the same reason as Titus, or for a different reason?

VOTE: ORAM

I'm VLA for weekend

I'm looking through the iso to see if BM responded to this and now I'm seeing what a bad OMGUS this is

[MURDERCAT]

Bulge what are your thoughts on Titus wagon?

[MURDERCAT]

Infinity if you are reading this replace in

[MURDERCAT]

Bulge please respond

[MURDERCAT]

Where is everyone

[MURDERCAT]

Oh the perfect pagetop setup

[MURDERCAT]

I think you have done nothing all game tbh.
Is your SR on ORAM slot real?

[MURDERCAT]

obviously. but what do you think this says about my alignment?

Well you did the same thing in 2172 but I trust I can sort you when you actually do things.

Who is your top TR?

[MURDERCAT]

Do you think it's weird the Titus wagon disappeared?

[MURDERCAT]

It feels like no one is interested in pushing the game forward to be honest but I'm glad you are here now at least. Hopefully we get a replacement with some energy because currently the leading wagon is accomplishing nothing.

[MURDERCAT]

sad game

[MURDERCAT]

Seeking a replacement for Battle Mage.

[MURDERCAT]

Are Mara and BM scum and BM didn't want to deal with no teammate?
*tin foil*
This line of questioning worked really well in my last multiball game

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah that was mostly a joke for Plus/username/Titus

[MURDERCAT]

I mean Titus hasn't posted for like 5 pages. Why, you want me to vote Klyne?

[MURDERCAT]

I'm talking more about votes outside Titus, assuming you have some fos outside of her.

Honestly I would have to reread, I feel like I've forgotten everything that has happened in this game. I was waiting to interact with the bulge because I thought that would help but now there's 3 more replacements to wait for..

[MURDERCAT]

I'd rather have a 17 page game than a 47 page game any day (though I do tend to be part of the problem that leads to longer games )

[MURDERCAT]

Skimmed up, quick thoughts
I like that username is actually doing things in 417.
Klyne still seems town to me and I appreciate the call to action.
VP is actually doing stuff which is good. Of Mara and Titus I feel worse about Titus. In general I like VP's reads.
Clidd is continuing to be kind of fence sitty but I've liked his interactions with me this game.
445 is kind of a nothing question. in RE to 453 I kinda just want you to do .. anything? to get the game going. VP is doing that nicely now.

[MURDERCAT]

when did you come back and how many games have you played?

Check my sig, everything from Open 795 on is recent. I came back around September. I have 8 completed games since then.

[MURDERCAT]

Bulge would you rather do Titus or Mara? Do you have a strong preference either way?

[MURDERCAT]

mmmmk

[MURDERCAT]

Lucky you
I like town too it's just more stressful to me. Plus variety is good.

[MURDERCAT]

Hello!!

[MURDERCAT]

This game is short enough so far I am going to reread the game alongside your catch-up later today.

[MURDERCAT]

Ok sorry everyone, to be honest my motivation for this game kind of dipped with the replacements and knowing I had to do a full reread made it a bit worse...
But I see that we have someone new and it's a new day! So starting the reread now.

[MURDERCAT]

I see your question in my pedits.
Basically because I felt like I totally lost the thread of the game as it totally stalled out.

[MURDERCAT]

Spoiler: reread though page 10

Also if someone could explain how to actually approach this setup that would be great. I'm guessing wolves first and try to go into good nightless numbers is ideal because there won't be cross kills? But I'm not sure how we actually manage to control that

We don't? I'm not sure what you're asking here. We hunt scum, and try to figure it out from there.

VOTE: Taly

In retrospect, I think it's weird how fixated Mara was about me talking about this with no discussion of Titus talking about it with me. Maybe I am too tunneled on Titus? This is one of the ways I like to start open setups because it gives us something to talk about so I don't think it's weird at all, but if it is weird shouldn't it also be weird that Titus is discussing it too? Also, if this is apparently weird why is the vote on Taly instead of me?

Taly is at E minus 1

I feel like this is LAMIST in retrospect. As Titus admits it's not her normal play.

Cat that does murder... sounds a lot like an evil but wolves are dogs so they're the Mafia!

VOTE: MURDERCAT

I wonder if JV had read at this point and chose not to join the Taly wagon or if he just wasn't aware.

I'll admit I'm tempted.
Reading up real quick, lecture's about to start though so it might be a bit.

This is kind of sketchy but like, you wouldn't say this as scum right? It's just kind of dumb to say.

Titus is my best guess for scum on the wagon atm. Weird sheep without comment, and then the fuss about E-1 without unvoting.
MURDERCAT's vote seems NAI, and tbh I'd expect Battle Mage to do the E-1 vote as any alignment. The sus votes are in the middle, when the wagon is actually being talked about as a wagon. A decent question at this point is, is there anyone adding pressure on you that wouldn't have done so as town? If so it's going to be somewhere in {PlusJOYED, Marashu, Titus, Klyne}.

But also there's almost certainly bound to be town guiding the wagon as well

I still think that I like the conclusion about Titus but taking BM out for free here is still super weird to me.

Was thinking some good thoughts but most of them come to

Well does Kilck really think that an innocuous RVS wagon would have some deeper meaning to it, or is he merely postulating? Is it..sincere? Maybe he just really hates RVS and enjoys the sounds that come out of his RGB LED Mechanical Gaming Keyboard"

I had a townread on Kylne until his italics post.

I don't think there is anything AI in that at all. I wasn't sure how serious Titus was about this but evidently the answer was pretty serious??

lso feel iffy with the assertion that i am town based on the wagon

/shrug I still think that if Taly is scum there would have been more JV votes and fewer BM votes.

Taly is at E minus 1

Isn't it E-2?

It was E-2. I think murder being on point/correcting is NAI but I think titus being wrong (votes less than 1) is an association if taly ever flips non-town. But on it's own it's probably a towntell since mistakes usually come from town.

I think this is silly. The idea is Titus purposely tried to slow the wagon while still voting for it? I don't think and unvote there looks that weird if that was her goal.

It's funny that tracy basically did 79 in our last game and was scum, but here I think you are towny for it. I think because you do into more effort and are providing actual thoughts.

ding ding ding

VOTE: Klyne

Username definitely doesn't care about perceptions

Hm. Early takes right now: I'm thinking Titus is town. I was townleaning Taly based on reactions to the wagon until I saw the post about meta reads. That one makes me feel apprehensive (though I can at least promise that I will not be reading through those games to fact-check). I'm feeling scum!murdercat is a very real possibility. I'm also getting gut scumpings from Klick, but I also know BM is better than me at finding scum. Klick did have a good point about Klyne, though.

Light TL on Plus. Deas might be scum? So right now I'm feeling {Murdercat, Klick, Klyne, Deas} with one more to find.

UNVOTE:

P-Edit: VOTE: Klyne - now explain your vote.

Wrong side of Titus/Taly still I think.

That makes me feel a little guilty honestly

I should have pushed DV for more thoughts here, he read up but kind of ignored the major events of the early game.

Page 1>

- Ping on post 8 (mc), it is common sense to know that town only has scumhunt, while the scum side (maf, ww) needs to better understand the setup to be able to play properly.

- I didn't like Taly's answer very much and I can understand the increase in votes on him.

Page 2>

- I had a strange feeling reading Jackson's posts, but I don't classify it as ping.

- Positive impression of Klick and MC.

- Taly has not improved in the posts and I feel that Titus is very apathetic in the sense of WIM.

Page 3>

- BM, Klyne and PlusJOYED void.

- Delay on vote by Titus is towny.

Page 4>

- Um, I don't know how to read Taly.

And.. That's it. I don't think I will do more than that. Maybe I'll adapt to the real-time chat.

VOTE: Titus

I'm having many mixfeelings right now, but I want to sort this first ^

I see your analysis

I see your vote

Reconcile the two? I cannot see it.

Did you mean to Vote Taly?

I wonder if I am being pocketed by clidd, I recently was told I am susceptible to pocketing
BM does have a good point here.

I believe ORAM is scum.

This is important to remember for later

I like Taly and clidd for town. Klick and DV too, though not as strongly.

Marashu, talk to me about 90 because most of those reads are the opposite of how I feel.

I'm not exactly a hyperposter, but I'll be around for a while rn. Anyone on, let's talk

Also important for later.

Your townpool is basically what I'm thinking too.

Maybe Clidd is trying to buddy up to Taly here too? I have to look at how he approaches Titus later because it looked like a kind of towny wavering to me but maybe it wasn't.

I feel awkward bragging but my scum game is usually better than that.

I wonder if this is Titus trying to lessen some pressure by saying "you wouldn't catch me as scum." I do that as town a lot actually, I wonder if she would do it as scum.

Back

I'm leaving you guys a freebie on Marashu. This isn't the greatest catch but I'm feeling charitable.

Marashu saw an impending wagon on my slot and tried to push me. Bad news: He didn't expect for me to bring the tea. Noob scum thought I'd just lie over and take his fdnsjkanfsd vote

ANYWAYS

I already talked about why it sucks, but I'm gonna tell you why everything else sucks. Look at the way he disengages from me. That is NOT a conscious town who made a mistake, it's scum who realized they were biting off more than they chew. He says he hates being wrong and that I still have a chance being scum. Fine. Great. Cool. Great. Whatever. Fine. Cool.

Then as if nobody heard him he says "w-well that fake E-1 post seemed pretty genuine" and here I'm thinking OK, let's see what this dope does

HE FUCKING UNVOTES
I'm going back to swearing btw fuck you
--

I tell him why I don't like Titus and now the dude doesn't even seem interested at all. His posts following that is completely dodging the issue like it never fucking happened. NOOB SCUM FEAR. He didn't expect me to throw the ball back at him. You don't show up to play ball and then decide you can't hang with Michael Jordan after all

I will dunk on you
------------

I really really really dislike the way he engages other playesrs, like clidd. He's just all like "OH hey buddy please townread me" proceeds to make a bunch of uncharitable quoteposts busywokr JUST VOTE MURDERCAT YOU'RE AFRAID OF MAKINg THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE

This really feels like town with a strong read to me. If only I knew who you were I'd know if you are good enough to fake this

My heart says Taly is town posting but he's also one of the players I don't trust myself to read well given recent experience.

A few days later and this feeling has mostly passed.

What do you think of my wagon?

Like this is a weird thing to ask someone on the wagon right? I don't get where these questions are coming from.

I'm using players as a sounding board to get a feel for them.

For instance, I feel like scum from both factions are on my wagon. At first, I thought it was just one faction but the votes on me are from people who have lazy positions at best, which is exactly why I was supposedly voted.

I'm getting this weird feeling on this page that Titus is talking to me as if she knows I'm town even though that's not actually possible. But she would probably have a pretty good idea still as scum.

For instance, this is lazy and agreeing with almost every wagon but Kylne.
Very sheepish and not really solving.

Seems like Titus is happy with the ORAM wagon that develops later.

Now, I feel like this conversation is a bit like pulling teeth to get a reads discussion and a feel for you. It feels rather oppositional.

Like this is what I'm talking about. In one post it seems like Titus is addressing me as a strong TR and then she comes back with this where she apparently needs to get a feel for me?

Ok I realize it's not going to be fun to read so here's the cliffnotes with higher level thoughts.

Taly - town I think for wagon comp, that meta post, and a general lack of anything that I really think is scummy

Titus - Still think Titus is scummy. Nothing in the iso seems solvey, it's mostly defending (e.g. calling all the votes on her wagon lazy) and there's a number of posts that ping me. Plus I think Klyne v Titus is TvS

iamausername - Null through this point, but I did like some of the stuff that came later where he actually did anything.

The Bulge (JacksonVirgo) - Worried about this as a partner to Titus, but otherwise null.

PlusJOYED - Has done nothing to this point, which is unfortunately consistent with town meta so null. Not really sure what to make of his opening post still.

DeasVail - Looking back, I don't like how DV ignored Titus in the early catchup he did.

Datisi (Marashu) - I am sheeping Klyne here, but on reread there was stuff that pinged me. Could definitely be scum with Titus.

galaxii (Battle Mage) - Put Taly at E-2 but otherwise was pretty absent so far. Pushed for ORAM over Titus?

Klyne - This is a strong town read for me for tone and also I think we agree about the gamestate.

clidd - Ugh I am a little more worried about being pocked by Clidd now but I'm still town binning this for now.

Klick - Really bad association with Titus and in retrospect the iso is kinda empty.

VP Baltar (ORAM) - Totally null but becomes a CW to Titus and I think this is a case where VP replaced into a meh slot and towns it up. But I'll get there soon enough.


I have a meeting to run to, but I will continue later.

[MURDERCAT]

Going to try to go a bit faster this time sorry.

Spoiler: Reread page 11-24

UNVOTE: Titus

MC, what do you think about Titus after her last set of posts?

I was rereading the game and started to detect small towny sparks from Titus, so I started to wonder if the static gamestate would say something AI about the wagon's position.

I should be looking at this more closely if Titus is actually scum. Clidd might be deciding the bus isn't necessary here as the wagon stalled a bit.

I think I figured out what about Klick's posts has been bugginig me. Klick keeps drawing attention to how there's a large number of scum in this game, either directly or indirectly. (post 38 directly but also implied in 42 by how there's bound to be scum on the early wagon but also town on the early wagon, and in 229 with a line of how there must be scum even if Klick thinks they are towny). This bothers me because it's shifting focus away from reading players.

Klick's townread of me I think comes out of nowhere - or rather, it seems to have shifted after more people have expressed townleans on me. I'd like to know what that thing I did was that changed your mind. And wait, why is Klyne in your townish section?

VOTE: Klick

It's sort of interesting how Mara is kinda always off doing his own thing, it's probably + town points, it doesn't feel like he is trying to drive attention away from other places at all, just giving genuine analysis.

323 is kinda the first real content from DV. It's a lot of shade without a ton of substance, I think I want to see more here. Like I think username is playing to town meta but I'm not sure if it deserves a town read, there were still only like 3 posts in the iso. Maybe I'm just biased because there is shade thrown my way too.

Who is your top TR?

it might still be Plus, it might be DeasVail. i'm pretty sold on both of them as town at this point.

There's these weird groups forming. Plus/DV/username, me/clidd/Klyne.

I like how clidd is interacting with me around here, fwiw.

VOTE: Titus

I think this in response to Klyne trying to get the game going again (which by the way is still ++ townie to me) basically made my fears evaporate in regards to clidd.

mcat i see your questions but tbh I barely remember anything about the titus wagon. gimme a bit

Bulge hasn't really done anything yet

Halfway update:

Y'all realize Titus and Marashu are scum together, right? They both defended each other as town with like zero coherent reasoning at all in the very early pages of the game. I'd maybe even guess werewolves since I'd suspect that pair to be highly defense of each other if they have any hope of winning the game.

Klick and Klyne are my strongest townreads based on me vibing with the things they say. Klick early pages and in analysis of the Taly wagon, Klyne more pages 5-9 when he's busting up Marashu & Titus with zero fucks given.

clidd is probably clueless town based on early impressions.

VP is joining the Klyne/MC/clidd group that formed. Bulge too. I wonder if one of these are scum trying to get into a town block? VP is a bit more opportunistic in regards to his position relative to Titus but his posts also feel better.

Reading Datisi intro posts (492 and beyond). I don't like the kinda "worried about TRing Titus but still gunna TR Titus for all her posts" thing that is happening. And then in the next post Titus is TSTBS?

Da'Vonne is amazing and you're officially top tier human for this hiiii <3

It is known.

if anyone will even read it

I'm reading it!

Oh snap. The business happened over night.

Sorry you drew scum though. Will catch up later today.

I feel like the game is going to come down to figuring out where the scum is in the two groups that I pointed out. Overall I like datisi's posting but I think I might be mega tunneling on Titus so that is coloring my perception of the slot. I don't get VP's confidence here :/

VOTE: plusjoyed

This is big + town for me I think because Datisi scum probably votes for VP here if he is scum with Titus and that was basically my big worry about the slot.

i'm realising now why i have felt no desire to join the Titus wagon despite not townreading her at all. i'm feeling some level of bad vibes from every one of these people.

I find such a range of reads on me to be really weird. It makes me think the SRs on me are fake but that's probably unfair

Titus arrives, I think this will be telling.

That static gamestate is because of scum not wanting to push opposing scum or do anything really. I am making moves and scumhunting, but still wagoned. There's no discussion elsewhere because half the game doesn't want it. There's no incentive to push elsewhere if a wagon that's not on their team develops. When both scum find it, why would they bother? Doubly so when I am not around to defend myself.

How can you say this when you were just V/LA...
I hardly consider Titus to have done much scum hunting so far, plus you can't really say that you are doing a lot but also that you take a while to get going.

@Clidd, I take off later.

DV comes in with 558. I'm kinda wary that scum DV saw the read on me was unsustainable and dropped it, but maybe I am just more town now. I do agree with the reads on both username and clidd.

Klyne just seems all hot air to me and little in the way of organic substance. It just all seems very rah rah whatever works and I’m looking forward to seeing how they respond to votes.

I really think klyne is town still.

Bulge is saying a lot of stuff but I want him to pick a side and give some reads.

I am mindmelding with clidd here I think.

Feeling something like this at the moment.

{taly, clidd, klyne}
{username, datisi}
{galaxii, ben, VP}
{bulge, plus, dv}
{titus}

Going to respond like normal from here as I'm almost back up to date.

[MURDERCAT]

just feels like it

Lol Plus are you really scum here or are you purposefully trolling

[MURDERCAT]

My concern is that in some ways it would be easier to have that kind of persona as that is what one is doing as scum essentially. Creating a persona

I think it's way harder to keep that stuff up as scum

[MURDERCAT]

Mafia have no incentive to place themselves in the killable block.

What about wifom? We get the potential kills right? If we knew mafia were never putting themselves on wouldn't we just catch them?

[MURDERCAT]

whether this post ends with a Titus vote

Wait a min....you think Titus and Klyne are both scum?

not together, obviously

I could see this if you replace Klyne with VP

[MURDERCAT]

yeah, it's hard to pin down exactly, but it feels to me like Murdercat is trying to stay out of trouble? like he's making the right moves to demonstrate that he is a contributing member of society, and i daresay he is making an earnest effort to hunt for scum, but i just get this vibe that he's avoiding controversy.

This is just because I've been gone I think, sorry

[MURDERCAT]

i have covid and no energy to make reads someone tell me where to vote

Feel better plus

[MURDERCAT]

my mental energy has been divided to lots of stuff aside from this, ill get to the thread soon

questions or direct comments on my votes/thoughts are top-tier ways to see my POV and motivate me

*sneezes, farts, and then dies*

Come back soon Taly

[MURDERCAT]

Deadline galaxii speed-yeet?

I actually don't hate this. But I'm not sure that I like you leading it.

[MURDERCAT]

Gimme about an hour to finish up my reading and I'll drop a vote. There is a lot of crap down in the early pages that I need to sort out.

Yeah we have nothing from this slot really (or at least I don't)

[MURDERCAT]

Lol was that an intentional reference to Trump or did you mean Tim Cook?

[MURDERCAT]

It is interesting you like me and clidd but are null on klyne

[MURDERCAT]

I do actually, but doesn't it really come down to who casts the first vote

[MURDERCAT]

Galaxii missed me kicking ass in 2172, I don't even remember if that slot was scum though lol let me go look

[MURDERCAT]

Oh that was Plus's slot! Which I promptly tried to yeet lol. But Plus was basically scum that game even if technically he was town.
Maybe I only kicked ass at the end of that game

[MURDERCAT]

Wow everyone is just ok with this

UNVOTE:

Wagon comp could be worse though.

Intent to hammer

I want to see if galaxii shows up soon

[MURDERCAT]

needs more scum lol

[MURDERCAT]

Ok galaxii was around this time on Tuesday but it doesn't seem like she has been on either account since then.
I'm going to the gym/eating dinner but if there's still nothing when I'm back I will just hammer. Let's start the game already.

[MURDERCAT]

Well see you all tomorrow
I was going to try to get galaxii to give some info pre hammer but I guess she isn't coming

[MURDERCAT]

galaxii (7): VP Baltar, Datisi, ben dover123, Klyne, DeasVail, iamausername, clidd
Klyne (2): Titus, Taly
Titus (1): The Bulge
VP Baltar (1): galaxii
Taly (1): PlusJOYED

This looks good for VP and bad for Titus and Taly. Plus and Bulge are also off the wagon, Plus probably looks a bit worse of the two because I think Bulge is also on scum But maybe Titus is a wolf.

As for scum on wagon it's hard to say and really depends on Titus/Klyne. It's hard to know what the motivation was for the wagon at the moment. I might expect other mafia towards the end of the wagon when it became inevitable? But as for wolves they could be anywhere on the wagon, especially if one of the other wagons was on a wolf.

[MURDERCAT]

The Mafia have published a hit list.
The following names are on it:

Klyne
ben dover123
DeasVail

This is honestly less useful than I was hoping for. Some questions are:

1. Does mafia put themselves on this list?
2. Why are they on the list? Good reads?
3. Why did ben die? Are the others possibly wolves?

I think this will make more sense as the game goes on.

[MURDERCAT]

Damn I love that vote but I kinda wanna find Galaxii's partners first and reoccurring the same BS I got yday doesn't sound fun

It's a new day son

BM did vote for Titus right? I should go through that iso, it's short

[MURDERCAT]

best bet for a partner voting his mate for the cred is within Deas/Iamausername/clidd, and we've already established clidd is town actually trying to play the game so that laves iamausername/Deas

So then we wonder if Deas is on the list

[MURDERCAT]

I feel like shaking things up and probably being stupid.

VOTE: Plusjoyed

Titus not doing any wagon or list analysis??

[MURDERCAT]

so, people who are categorically not mafia: Baltar, Datisi, Klyne, DeasVail. any of them could still be wolves, obviously.

if there is a bussing vote, it's clidd. i'm not sure there's any particular reason to assume that there has to be someone bussing though. of course as the primo busman i would say that etc. etc.

I disagree, the wagon was pretty clearly going through earlier than clidd

[MURDERCAT]

also, the fact that Klyne was on the list strongly suggests that it was changed after the point that it became clear that Klyne wasn't headed for the noose.

What do you mean by this?

[MURDERCAT]

shouldn't this be like, at least a good starting point for vca? instead, her entrance today is 815???

yup exactly this

[MURDERCAT]

ok I think we should start here

VOTE: Titus

Need some Taly back here too

[MURDERCAT]

This is very selective analysis. MURDERCAT has been doing that the entire game. Votes peeled off both Kylne and myself. This suggests that if Kylne is scum, he's a wolf. Mafia wouldn't peel off Kylne to vote out their own.

MURDERCAT also doesn't say why the wagons are bad for me and Taly. He just throws out a boilerplate guess that's username's thoughts but weaker and recycled.

MURDERCAT is scum.

Kylne could just as easy be mafia with other mafia voting for you who bussed when it was inevitable. Are you getting confused?

It is bad for you and Taly because you aren't on the wagon, it was obvious I was discussing who wasn't voting for galaxii.

This is weak OMGUS Titus

[MURDERCAT]

Is Datisi scum then?

[MURDERCAT]

Page 1>

- Ping on post 8 (mc), it is common sense to know that town only has scumhunt, while the scum side (maf, ww) needs to better understand the setup to be able to play properly.

- I didn't like Taly's answer very much and I can understand the increase in votes on him.

Page 2>

- I had a strange feeling reading Jackson's posts, but I don't classify it as ping.

- Positive impression of Klick and MC.

- Taly has not improved in the posts and I feel that Titus is very apathetic in the sense of WIM.

Page 3>

- BM, Klyne and PlusJOYED void.

- Delay on vote by Titus is towny.

Page 4>

- Um, I don't know how to read Taly.

And.. That's it. I don't think I will do more than that. Maybe I'll adapt to the real-time chat.

VOTE: Titus

I'm having many mixfeelings right now, but I want to sort this first ^

I see your analysis

I see your vote

Reconcile the two? I cannot see it.

Did you mean to Vote Taly?

I believe ORAM is scum.

VOTE: ORAM

I'm VLA for weekend

Datisi said the exact same thing that I did about your vote

[MURDERCAT]

Oops those were supposed to go in my next post

[MURDERCAT]

Those are the only posts of BM's I think actually have anything useful in them, the vote on Taly probably suggests they are partners together but I already thought that Taly was town based on the wagon.
VP still obviously not scum with that slot so that's not actually useful either.
I think he could be moving pressure off Titus there but maybe he's just poking at something that was pretty weird

[MURDERCAT]

I literally pushed you all day yesterday Titus. I think you are scum, why would I give you the benefit of the doubt that you are doing some fake gambit. This is honestly dumb username and Titus are both getting desperate and throwing shit at me I think

[MURDERCAT]

why am i desperate

nobody is voting for me

You are partners with Titus probably

[MURDERCAT]

I don't really have the mental energy to do the argue against scum thing today sorry

[MURDERCAT]

so the fact that Klyne was on the list we saw means it was probably submitted after the galaxii wagon had risen up.

Ok I see what you are getting at

[MURDERCAT]

why do Titus and Taly look bad for their wagon positioning come EoD but not I?

I mentioned you in my other post, did you read it?
I am giving you a pass for now because I think that you were on scum anyway.

[MURDERCAT]

What does this mean?

Does you, as mafia, put yourself on the hitlist? Which means if you are scum you are more likely to be a wolf.

[MURDERCAT]

one where Titus/Klyne are Mafia/Mafia at that... which never makes sense in this game.

I think you are misunderstanding something that I said, can you clarify this? When I am referring to bussing I am talking about the voting onto galaxii, is that where you are confused?

[MURDERCAT]

I am sorry everyone for my lack of activity. Especially in games like this I usually try to be the person breathing life into them, not dragging them down.
I am going V/LA to represent my general lack of motivation to do much of anything at the moment as I am completely burnt out from work.
I should be back to normal on Thursday when things calm down a bit

@mod V/LA until 12/17

[MURDERCAT]

Hi everyone I am back
I apologize again for not prioritizing this game

[MURDERCAT]

I also saw my prod I've been choosing to lurk

lol great

[MURDERCAT]

clidd continuing to obv town and anyone who thinks otherwise is ???

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: plusjoyed

give me one reason you shouldn't be yeeted into the sun

VOTE: PlusJoyed

Guess I don't have to do a massive reread when the scum are just going to claim in thread.

VOTE: plusjoyed

Titus how are you voting for Plus here after what happened in our last game with him

[MURDERCAT]

I get the votes on Plus but I think he could easily be town here.

[MURDERCAT]

i'm not saying that Plus wouldn't act like this as scum but i want y'all to know that i have seen him act exactly like this as town and i'm not a fan of this shift.

i guess his execution might be necessary in the long run, because i am not confident enough in my townread of his early play to be happy with him surviving endgame. but it still feels like a cop out right now.

gut feel from the last couple of pages has town stocks for clidd rising, town stocks for DV falling

Oh username already said it. Exactly this

[MURDERCAT]

Username, do you have an example of a Plus game that is in line with his behavior here? I would like to take a look.

Check my wiki, 2172

[MURDERCAT]

you know what, the only reason to aim for wolves over mafia currently is the fact that they get a night kill, and if we just take one of them out? they still have a night kill.
so it's actually only better to go after a wolf today if we are confident that we can nail not just one of them, but both of them. and i don't know about the rest of you, but i am really not confident in that. should have thought more about this sooner.

VOTE: Murdercat

still town

[MURDERCAT]

I think VP, Datisi, Klyne, and clidd are all pretty towny
That leaves

Ahsoka (Taly slot)
Titus
iamausername
The Bulge
PlusJOYED
DeasVail

I like username and plus more based on the last few pages. I think I overreacted to username jumping on me with Titus, it probably don't make sense for both of them to push me like that together. Titus is continuing to do none of the night kill analysis or iso reading I would actually expect her to be doing and is instead finding reasons to push me. Obviously it's easier for me to evaluate the push but still. Plus on the other hand could still be scum but he's done that as town and we should give the replacement a chance. That leaves me here:

Ahsoka (Taly slot)
Titus
The Bulge
DeasVail

I want to see what the Taly replacement comes up with.

[MURDERCAT]

I'm referring to the game that username and I are talking about, 2172 where plus rolled over and died as town

[MURDERCAT]

It's lazy IMO when it's consistent with a town game of his *and* we are getting a replacement.
Before he got replaced it would have been better to try to engage him.
Now it's better to wait and see what the replacement does.

No one elims Not_Mafia D1 every game for fake claiming jester and being generally useless. If you wanted to advocate for a policy elim on the slot then you are welcome to do that but it's not a reason to scum read him based on my experience.

[MURDERCAT]

no i guess that's dumb. the sentence is just missing an implied 'with Plus', which could equally just come from town Baltar thinking about who is partnered with Plus.

I also said exactly that moments after I posted since I realized I might not be entirely clear with the point I was making.

I still think the meta you're using to clear Plus seems thin at best. Clidd seems to confirm that skepticism on my part is warranted.

I don't think anyone is clearing plus, but we should view the slot with an open mind is my point

[MURDERCAT]

VP, Datisi, Klyne, DeasVail, Iamusername, Clidd

I want to start here.

Murdermeowmeow, I saw you town read a couple of these people strongly, but I didn't see any reasons for it.

I've made the reasoning in previous posts.

Klyne is towny for the push on Titus and none of the weird tone arguments do anything for me
clidd is towny for appearing to genuinely solve in multiple places
VP and Datisi are both towny in large part for driving a wagon on scum, but also how they approached the wagons at end of D1.

I think I've made my position on them generally clear but if you want more let me know

[MURDERCAT]

but i'd rather that all the people who agree that Murdercat is obviously mafia just voted Murdercat, because he is obviously mafia.

I still don't understand the argument here

[MURDERCAT]

why would she be mafia here? If she's anything, she's a wolf.

How much of the game have you read?

[MURDERCAT]

Seems like a weird discred to me

It's not a discred, I was genuinely asking

[MURDERCAT]

don't think MC has to be scum but i might put him back to null ish? didnt read through the MC case carefully tho. i see why scum is likely in Klyne, DV, Plus, MC though.

Where does this come from after your town lean on me?

[MURDERCAT]

woops passed out on the couch last night

VOTE: deasvail choo choo?

could be convinced to murder cat. don't wanna do iv today. vpb still town. datisi townier. username scummier.

No way this is a bus right?

[MURDERCAT]

I think the push on me is coming from scum (obviously) but honestly I have done nothing this game

[MURDERCAT]

Titus and DV.

[MURDERCAT]

I think the push on me is coming from scum (obviously) but honestly I have done nothing this game

why does it obviously come from scum if you yourself say you have done nothing? Why wouldn't town suspect you if you're not playing your usual game?

This doesn't feel like a genuine question.
It is obvious that I would think scum is pushing me, as two of my SRs are the ones pushing me.

[MURDERCAT]

Compared to someone like MC who is popping in here and there with helpful-looking posting but not actually showing any evidence of caring about his reads, and VP, who has voted me for “bad” posts but with no evidence of him actually thinking about what comes from scum and what comes from town, my feelings on Klyne are not as strong

I mean, I am not really caring about the game. But sure I can try to make a longer post later.

[MURDERCAT]

I specifically stated i didn’t like Murdercat’s somewhat discrediting nature of me.

What makes you think I was discrediting you with that question?
IIRC there was some answer I wanted to give for which that mattered.

[MURDERCAT]

as I said I don't really trust my townleans or any of my reads really all that much in a multiball game. I don't really scumread you but your posting got more meh as the game went on and with a bunch of people suspecting you I kind of put you back into null pile.

Fair enough. I'm not really putting much stock into the claims I'm scum because of their origin. If people I'm town reading start to care then I guess I'll address them.

[MURDERCAT]

Have I not given my reads enough times?

[MURDERCAT]

VP, Datisi, Klyne, DeasVail, Iamusername, Clidd

I want to start here.

Murdermeowmeow, I saw you town read a couple of these people strongly, but I didn't see any reasons for it.

I've made the reasoning in previous posts.

Klyne is towny for the push on Titus and none of the weird tone arguments do anything for me
clidd is towny for appearing to genuinely solve in multiple places
VP and Datisi are both towny in large part for driving a wagon on scum, but also how they approached the wagons at end of D1.

I think I've made my position on them generally clear but if you want more let me know

I already engaged with you but whatever.

Town: Klyne, clidd, VP, Datisi

Scum: Titus, DeasVail, Bulge

4th slot could be you, username, or IV. GTH I would say you.

[MURDERCAT]

Back from holidays, sorry all

[MURDERCAT]

The Bulge, Titus, Ahsoka

I hate the back end of the wagon from yesterday

[MURDERCAT]

No one else thinks it's weird titus literally has done no VCA?
She just called me scum and everyone was like yeah ok MC is Mafia

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: MURDERCAT

interested in hearing your process here. what turned you?

Lol this is TMI, bulge is probably mafia who knows I'm town here

[MURDERCAT]

He's setting up like a soft defense of me so that when I flip he looks better

[MURDERCAT]

Someone mad they rolled scum.

Literally there has been no argument for why klyne is scum

[MURDERCAT]

The only argument that I am scum is that I'm mafia, if he is mafia he probably concludes that wolves are pushing me and I'm town. No one thinks I'm a wolf, Titus just declared that I am mafia and some people are going along with it.

[MURDERCAT]

I can be a wolf but
1. I'm town
and
2. No one has made that argument.

If I were scum and especially a wolf I'd have been a lot more aggressive towards any of the wagons that got hammered.

[MURDERCAT]

Ok I will go back and re-read it, my memory was that username posted that right after titus and so I associated it with Titus calling me scum but maybe it's more independent than I'm giving it credit for

[MURDERCAT]

The Bulge, Titus, Ahsoka

I hate the back end of the wagon from yesterday

Lol it's literally the exact same wagon on me

[MURDERCAT]

Seriously clidd you are the only one in here that I think is town so if you read this please unvote me or there is basically no way to win from here

[MURDERCAT]

What in particular do you want me to respond to?

[MURDERCAT]

lmao

[MURDERCAT]

I'm responding let me post please

[MURDERCAT]

it does not sit well with me that Titus and Klyne went hard after each other yesterday, and now both are on Plus today. my instinct is that one of them is a wolf who genuinely thought the other was mafia, but changed their mind after the flip. inclined to think that is Titus, because there's no particular reason for wolf!Klyne to stop thinking Titus is mafia as far as i can tell. still think Klyne being on the hitlist means he is not mafia, so i guess he's actually town.

other gut feeling from rereading stuff: Murdercat is totally mafia. besides his generally conflict avoiding nature that i noted yesterday, there were a few weird interactions i picked up on with the BM/galaxii slot. there's a steady stream of "hey, BM is sorta scummy" posts with no real effort to do anything with this (43, 199, 348 and 399), then in 679 listing his opinions on everyone he just sort of... forgets to have a conclusion on the slot? and in 712, galaxii is somehow right in the middle of his reads, equal to VP who "replaced into a meh slot and towns it up". this doesn't feel like a real progression of reads on a slot that did basically nothing at any point.

then there's 728 as a response to the wagon starting on galaxii which is just wretched, given his apparent thoughts on VP. and then he made a big show of giving intent to hammer instead of just getting on with it, presumably while he and his other partner scrambled to figure out a new hitlist now that the Titus/Klyne dichotomy had dissolved.

pedit: ok, Murdercat and Titus both posted a bunch while i was writing this up. my conclusions are really not at all challenged by these posts. i think we want to aim for a wolf today, but i also think Titus might be at E-1 already?

I'm curious if people actually read these posts when username posted this. I am quoting them all here with context so you have no excuse.

Titus is my best guess for scum on the wagon atm. Weird sheep without comment, and then the fuss about E-1 without unvoting.
MURDERCAT's vote seems NAI, and tbh I'd expect Battle Mage to do the E-1 vote as any alignment. The sus votes are in the middle, when the wagon is actually being talked about as a wagon. A decent question at this point is, is there anyone adding pressure on you that wouldn't have done so as town? If so it's going to be somewhere in {PlusJOYED, Marashu, Titus, Klyne}.

But also there's almost certainly bound to be town guiding the wagon as well

I think I'll take your word for it that BM does that as any alignment, but that seems like a reason to not give him a pass for his vote lol. I think his is worse than plus, who was basically just RVSing with me. Does town Titus prefer to accelerate a wagon to generate data or let it form naturally to avoid impacting the data? I've played with Titus a bit recently but none of the games had both of us in from the start so I don't know

Username is saying that I am calling BM scummy in these posts but that's not really the case. I was pretty null on him, like many people were as he had like 10 posts. This isn't an example of me "calling him scummy" it was a direct response to someone giving him a pass for no reason.

i feel like people are ignoring me in this game

I townread this and Marashu.

Murdercat, what do you think of my reads so far?

Klyne's tone is not pinging me. I'm not good at tone reads so I'm not gunna TR an alt for tone, but I disagree with your read there.

"Marashu isn't likely scum"

Agree with this one, at first I thought the read on me was fake to the point that I actually thought it was a reaction test but the followup sounded genuine.

"I townread this" (in reference to BM)

BM has done nothing which is weird to me because my experience is he likes to lead. But also I SR'd BM as town one time and he yelled at me a lot

But I find your question kind of weird because I had to iso dive you to even see if you had any reads other than Klyne. I don't think you've been very vocal about them.

Again, this is a reaction to someone giving BM a pass for nothing, this time Titus. Again, BM had like 10 posts so my reaction was to people letting him off the hook, not me scum reading him in particular.

My "thoughts" earlier were that I wasn't really feeling the Titus wagon anymore, and I don't think she's especially likely to be scum. I left my vote on for a while to see what she'd do, since she hadn't posted in a few pages, and I wanted to see more from her. She's given more, and my vote no longer has a purpose.
UNVOTE:

As for being sheepy and agreeing with other people's ideas, well, guilty as charged. But I actually do agree with them, so I'm not going to say I disagree just for the sake of being original.

VOTE: Battle Mage
I feel like everyone has been leaving him alone like they're saving him for later, and I'd rather start figuring him out now.
What are your thoughts on, well, everyone besides taly? And do you SR me for the same reason as Titus, or for a different reason?

VOTE: ORAM

I'm VLA for weekend

I'm looking through the iso to see if BM responded to this and now I'm seeing what a bad OMGUS this is

Yes, I called his OMGUS an OMGUS. This is the only time I actually said anything that resembles real suspicion on BM.

Are Mara and BM scum and BM didn't want to deal with no teammate?
*tin foil*
This line of questioning worked really well in my last multiball game

Yeah that was mostly a joke for Plus/username/Titus

This is a joke.

These are the posts that apparently mean "'hey, BM is sorta scummy' posts with no real effort to do anything with this"
Yeah I was null on him as I said.

Spoiler: reread though page 10

Also if someone could explain how to actually approach this setup that would be great. I'm guessing wolves first and try to go into good nightless numbers is ideal because there won't be cross kills? But I'm not sure how we actually manage to control that

We don't? I'm not sure what you're asking here. We hunt scum, and try to figure it out from there.

VOTE: Taly

In retrospect, I think it's weird how fixated Mara was about me talking about this with no discussion of Titus talking about it with me. Maybe I am too tunneled on Titus? This is one of the ways I like to start open setups because it gives us something to talk about so I don't think it's weird at all, but if it is weird shouldn't it also be weird that Titus is discussing it too? Also, if this is apparently weird why is the vote on Taly instead of me?

Taly is at E minus 1

I feel like this is LAMIST in retrospect. As Titus admits it's not her normal play.

Cat that does murder... sounds a lot like an evil but wolves are dogs so they're the Mafia!

VOTE: MURDERCAT

I wonder if JV had read at this point and chose not to join the Taly wagon or if he just wasn't aware.

I'll admit I'm tempted.
Reading up real quick, lecture's about to start though so it might be a bit.

This is kind of sketchy but like, you wouldn't say this as scum right? It's just kind of dumb to say.

Titus is my best guess for scum on the wagon atm. Weird sheep without comment, and then the fuss about E-1 without unvoting.
MURDERCAT's vote seems NAI, and tbh I'd expect Battle Mage to do the E-1 vote as any alignment. The sus votes are in the middle, when the wagon is actually being talked about as a wagon. A decent question at this point is, is there anyone adding pressure on you that wouldn't have done so as town? If so it's going to be somewhere in {PlusJOYED, Marashu, Titus, Klyne}.

But also there's almost certainly bound to be town guiding the wagon as well

I still think that I like the conclusion about Titus but taking BM out for free here is still super weird to me.

Was thinking some good thoughts but most of them come to

Well does Kilck really think that an innocuous RVS wagon would have some deeper meaning to it, or is he merely postulating? Is it..sincere? Maybe he just really hates RVS and enjoys the sounds that come out of his RGB LED Mechanical Gaming Keyboard"

I had a townread on Kylne until his italics post.

I don't think there is anything AI in that at all. I wasn't sure how serious Titus was about this but evidently the answer was pretty serious??

lso feel iffy with the assertion that i am town based on the wagon

/shrug I still think that if Taly is scum there would have been more JV votes and fewer BM votes.

Taly is at E minus 1

Isn't it E-2?

It was E-2. I think murder being on point/correcting is NAI but I think titus being wrong (votes less than 1) is an association if taly ever flips non-town. But on it's own it's probably a towntell since mistakes usually come from town.

I think this is silly. The idea is Titus purposely tried to slow the wagon while still voting for it? I don't think and unvote there looks that weird if that was her goal.

It's funny that tracy basically did 79 in our last game and was scum, but here I think you are towny for it. I think because you do into more effort and are providing actual thoughts.

ding ding ding

VOTE: Klyne

Username definitely doesn't care about perceptions

Hm. Early takes right now: I'm thinking Titus is town. I was townleaning Taly based on reactions to the wagon until I saw the post about meta reads. That one makes me feel apprehensive (though I can at least promise that I will not be reading through those games to fact-check). I'm feeling scum!murdercat is a very real possibility. I'm also getting gut scumpings from Klick, but I also know BM is better than me at finding scum. Klick did have a good point about Klyne, though.

Light TL on Plus. Deas might be scum? So right now I'm feeling {Murdercat, Klick, Klyne, Deas} with one more to find.

UNVOTE:

P-Edit: VOTE: Klyne - now explain your vote.

Wrong side of Titus/Taly still I think.

That makes me feel a little guilty honestly

I should have pushed DV for more thoughts here, he read up but kind of ignored the major events of the early game.

Page 1>

- Ping on post 8 (mc), it is common sense to know that town only has scumhunt, while the scum side (maf, ww) needs to better understand the setup to be able to play properly.

- I didn't like Taly's answer very much and I can understand the increase in votes on him.

Page 2>

- I had a strange feeling reading Jackson's posts, but I don't classify it as ping.

- Positive impression of Klick and MC.

- Taly has not improved in the posts and I feel that Titus is very apathetic in the sense of WIM.

Page 3>

- BM, Klyne and PlusJOYED void.

- Delay on vote by Titus is towny.

Page 4>

- Um, I don't know how to read Taly.

And.. That's it. I don't think I will do more than that. Maybe I'll adapt to the real-time chat.

VOTE: Titus

I'm having many mixfeelings right now, but I want to sort this first ^

I see your analysis

I see your vote

Reconcile the two? I cannot see it.

Did you mean to Vote Taly?

I wonder if I am being pocketed by clidd, I recently was told I am susceptible to pocketing
BM does have a good point here.

I believe ORAM is scum.

This is important to remember for later

I like Taly and clidd for town. Klick and DV too, though not as strongly.

Marashu, talk to me about 90 because most of those reads are the opposite of how I feel.

I'm not exactly a hyperposter, but I'll be around for a while rn. Anyone on, let's talk

Also important for later.

Your townpool is basically what I'm thinking too.

Maybe Clidd is trying to buddy up to Taly here too? I have to look at how he approaches Titus later because it looked like a kind of towny wavering to me but maybe it wasn't.

I feel awkward bragging but my scum game is usually better than that.

I wonder if this is Titus trying to lessen some pressure by saying "you wouldn't catch me as scum." I do that as town a lot actually, I wonder if she would do it as scum.

Back

I'm leaving you guys a freebie on Marashu. This isn't the greatest catch but I'm feeling charitable.

Marashu saw an impending wagon on my slot and tried to push me. Bad news: He didn't expect for me to bring the tea. Noob scum thought I'd just lie over and take his fdnsjkanfsd vote

ANYWAYS

I already talked about why it sucks, but I'm gonna tell you why everything else sucks. Look at the way he disengages from me. That is NOT a conscious town who made a mistake, it's scum who realized they were biting off more than they chew. He says he hates being wrong and that I still have a chance being scum. Fine. Great. Cool. Great. Whatever. Fine. Cool.

Then as if nobody heard him he says "w-well that fake E-1 post seemed pretty genuine" and here I'm thinking OK, let's see what this dope does

HE FUCKING UNVOTES
I'm going back to swearing btw fuck you
--

I tell him why I don't like Titus and now the dude doesn't even seem interested at all. His posts following that is completely dodging the issue like it never fucking happened. NOOB SCUM FEAR. He didn't expect me to throw the ball back at him. You don't show up to play ball and then decide you can't hang with Michael Jordan after all

I will dunk on you
------------

I really really really dislike the way he engages other playesrs, like clidd. He's just all like "OH hey buddy please townread me" proceeds to make a bunch of uncharitable quoteposts busywokr JUST VOTE MURDERCAT YOU'RE AFRAID OF MAKINg THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE

This really feels like town with a strong read to me. If only I knew who you were I'd know if you are good enough to fake this

My heart says Taly is town posting but he's also one of the players I don't trust myself to read well given recent experience.

A few days later and this feeling has mostly passed.

What do you think of my wagon?

Like this is a weird thing to ask someone on the wagon right? I don't get where these questions are coming from.

I'm using players as a sounding board to get a feel for them.

For instance, I feel like scum from both factions are on my wagon. At first, I thought it was just one faction but the votes on me are from people who have lazy positions at best, which is exactly why I was supposedly voted.

I'm getting this weird feeling on this page that Titus is talking to me as if she knows I'm town even though that's not actually possible. But she would probably have a pretty good idea still as scum.

For instance, this is lazy and agreeing with almost every wagon but Kylne.
Very sheepish and not really solving.

Seems like Titus is happy with the ORAM wagon that develops later.

Now, I feel like this conversation is a bit like pulling teeth to get a reads discussion and a feel for you. It feels rather oppositional.

Like this is what I'm talking about. In one post it seems like Titus is addressing me as a strong TR and then she comes back with this where she apparently needs to get a feel for me?

Ok I realize it's not going to be fun to read so here's the cliffnotes with higher level thoughts.

Taly - town I think for wagon comp, that meta post, and a general lack of anything that I really think is scummy

Titus - Still think Titus is scummy. Nothing in the iso seems solvey, it's mostly defending (e.g. calling all the votes on her wagon lazy) and there's a number of posts that ping me. Plus I think Klyne v Titus is TvS

iamausername - Null through this point, but I did like some of the stuff that came later where he actually did anything.

The Bulge (JacksonVirgo) - Worried about this as a partner to Titus, but otherwise null.

PlusJOYED - Has done nothing to this point, which is unfortunately consistent with town meta so null. Not really sure what to make of his opening post still.

DeasVail - Looking back, I don't like how DV ignored Titus in the early catchup he did.

Datisi (Marashu) - I am sheeping Klyne here, but on reread there was stuff that pinged me. Could definitely be scum with Titus.

galaxii (Battle Mage) - Put Taly at E-2 but otherwise was pretty absent so far. Pushed for ORAM over Titus?

Klyne - This is a strong town read for me for tone and also I think we agree about the gamestate.

clidd - Ugh I am a little more worried about being pocked by Clidd now but I'm still town binning this for now.

Klick - Really bad association with Titus and in retrospect the iso is kinda empty.

VP Baltar (ORAM) - Totally null but becomes a CW to Titus and I think this is a case where VP replaced into a meh slot and towns it up. But I'll get there soon enough.


I have a meeting to run to, but I will continue later.

This is where "I forget to have a conclusion." which is apparently inconsistent with my previous posting, but I think in context you can see I never had an SR on BM? Username acts like everyone had these strong reads on BM through page 10 and I'm scummy for not having one, but I truly didn't have a read on him, few others did, and some were suspicious looking town reads.

Going to try to go a bit faster this time sorry.

Spoiler: Reread page 11-24

UNVOTE: Titus

MC, what do you think about Titus after her last set of posts?

I was rereading the game and started to detect small towny sparks from Titus, so I started to wonder if the static gamestate would say something AI about the wagon's position.

I should be looking at this more closely if Titus is actually scum. Clidd might be deciding the bus isn't necessary here as the wagon stalled a bit.

I think I figured out what about Klick's posts has been bugginig me. Klick keeps drawing attention to how there's a large number of scum in this game, either directly or indirectly. (post 38 directly but also implied in 42 by how there's bound to be scum on the early wagon but also town on the early wagon, and in 229 with a line of how there must be scum even if Klick thinks they are towny). This bothers me because it's shifting focus away from reading players.

Klick's townread of me I think comes out of nowhere - or rather, it seems to have shifted after more people have expressed townleans on me. I'd like to know what that thing I did was that changed your mind. And wait, why is Klyne in your townish section?

VOTE: Klick

It's sort of interesting how Mara is kinda always off doing his own thing, it's probably + town points, it doesn't feel like he is trying to drive attention away from other places at all, just giving genuine analysis.

323 is kinda the first real content from DV. It's a lot of shade without a ton of substance, I think I want to see more here. Like I think username is playing to town meta but I'm not sure if it deserves a town read, there were still only like 3 posts in the iso. Maybe I'm just biased because there is shade thrown my way too.

Who is your top TR?

it might still be Plus, it might be DeasVail. i'm pretty sold on both of them as town at this point.

There's these weird groups forming. Plus/DV/username, me/clidd/Klyne.

I like how clidd is interacting with me around here, fwiw.

VOTE: Titus

I think this in response to Klyne trying to get the game going again (which by the way is still ++ townie to me) basically made my fears evaporate in regards to clidd.

mcat i see your questions but tbh I barely remember anything about the titus wagon. gimme a bit

Bulge hasn't really done anything yet

Halfway update:

Y'all realize Titus and Marashu are scum together, right? They both defended each other as town with like zero coherent reasoning at all in the very early pages of the game. I'd maybe even guess werewolves since I'd suspect that pair to be highly defense of each other if they have any hope of winning the game.

Klick and Klyne are my strongest townreads based on me vibing with the things they say. Klick early pages and in analysis of the Taly wagon, Klyne more pages 5-9 when he's busting up Marashu & Titus with zero fucks given.

clidd is probably clueless town based on early impressions.

VP is joining the Klyne/MC/clidd group that formed. Bulge too. I wonder if one of these are scum trying to get into a town block? VP is a bit more opportunistic in regards to his position relative to Titus but his posts also feel better.

Reading Datisi intro posts (492 and beyond). I don't like the kinda "worried about TRing Titus but still gunna TR Titus for all her posts" thing that is happening. And then in the next post Titus is TSTBS?

Da'Vonne is amazing and you're officially top tier human for this hiiii <3

It is known.

if anyone will even read it

I'm reading it!

Oh snap. The business happened over night.

Sorry you drew scum though. Will catch up later today.

I feel like the game is going to come down to figuring out where the scum is in the two groups that I pointed out. Overall I like datisi's posting but I think I might be mega tunneling on Titus so that is coloring my perception of the slot. I don't get VP's confidence here :/

VOTE: plusjoyed

This is big + town for me I think because Datisi scum probably votes for VP here if he is scum with Titus and that was basically my big worry about the slot.

i'm realising now why i have felt no desire to join the Titus wagon despite not townreading her at all. i'm feeling some level of bad vibes from every one of these people.

I find such a range of reads on me to be really weird. It makes me think the SRs on me are fake but that's probably unfair

Titus arrives, I think this will be telling.

That static gamestate is because of scum not wanting to push opposing scum or do anything really. I am making moves and scumhunting, but still wagoned. There's no discussion elsewhere because half the game doesn't want it. There's no incentive to push elsewhere if a wagon that's not on their team develops. When both scum find it, why would they bother? Doubly so when I am not around to defend myself.

How can you say this when you were just V/LA...
I hardly consider Titus to have done much scum hunting so far, plus you can't really say that you are doing a lot but also that you take a while to get going.

@Clidd, I take off later.

DV comes in with 558. I'm kinda wary that scum DV saw the read on me was unsustainable and dropped it, but maybe I am just more town now. I do agree with the reads on both username and clidd.

Klyne just seems all hot air to me and little in the way of organic substance. It just all seems very rah rah whatever works and I’m looking forward to seeing how they respond to votes.

I really think klyne is town still.

Bulge is saying a lot of stuff but I want him to pick a side and give some reads.

I am mindmelding with clidd here I think.

Feeling something like this at the moment.

{taly, clidd, klyne}
{username, datisi}
{galaxii, ben, VP}
{bulge, plus, dv}
{titus}

Going to respond like normal from here as I'm almost back up to date.

The commentary about this post claims that the galaxii read is suspicious in relation to the VP read. But I was null on galaxii as I said and if you actually read the spoiler you'll see that I'm having conflicting opinions on VP throughout the second part of my reread. So I put him in the middle tier.

Deadline galaxii speed-yeet?

I actually don't hate this. But I'm not sure that I like you leading it.

As stated, this is not inconsistent with my read of VP, especially when you consider that I did the second part of my reread more recently to this post and was still having doubts. And remember that FMPOV it looked like a hard deflection from the Titus wagon which I still think was on scum.

[MURDERCAT]

Seriously the exact same people are jumping on me as the end of the wagon yesterday and no one thinks that's weird??

[MURDERCAT]

@MC, so your basic counter is that you were completely null on BM and username is overstating your position? Do you find that scummy or is username just misreading here?

Fwiw, I did look at the posts he linked and I don't think he is overstating by a significant amount.

I don't think it's scummy in particular, I think username did what I often do which is to open up someone's iso and in this case CTRL-F "BM." I see how if you do that the posts might look like I have a SR on BM but in context I think that it's a totally different story.

Whether the push on me now is scummy? /shrug

I wouldn't be surprised to learn username is scum but I could also see IV as scum instead.

[MURDERCAT]

gg, thanks for modding Umlaut

This game was cursed though lol

[MURDERCAT]

The setup allows that, due to the unique kill list mechanic

[MURDERCAT]

[MURDERCAT]

I keep count lol

[MURDERCAT]

This game would have gone a lot differently with an active mafia team early

Thanks to Bulge I still had fun even though I was obv scum when galaxii never showed

[MURDERCAT]

Best part of this game was MURDERING murdercat

Absolute swag

Swag infinite

God bless flocka

lol

I had fun playing with you Klyne, I said in the dead thread you were a genuine TR of mine for the entire game

[MURDERCAT]

lollll

[MURDERCAT]

Now you Klyne

[MURDERCAT]

Damn you

[MURDERCAT]

We would have, had we not lost one D1