One Night Stand [Game Over]

[Hopkirk]

3-9 with a pair of town lovers who don't know if the other one is town and a kill every night is very heavily scumsided

[Hopkirk]

Letting P(Town win) = 1/2, this means:

1/2 = (N-2S)/N
N/2 = N-2S
N = 2N-4S
4S = N

Nightless games have a 50% win rate for either faction if scum make up a quarter of the initial population.

3-9 nightless is balanced

[Hopkirk]

Nightless ev is P(Town win) = 1 - 2S/N = (N-2S)/N for mountainous
so 4/8 = 1 - 8/12 = 33% town win

[Hopkirk]

imo chance the setup is just nightless is higher than the alternatives of 1- a 2p scumteam (which is higher scum EV that nightless if we're talking 10-2) or 2- that we got the specific heal/other standard explanation for a kill not happening or 3 - ? person scumteam with a hectic gimmick

9-3 with 2 town lovers and a 5p hood just feels incredibly scumsided. like that's 84% scum win before poweroles... but that's taking the 11p and mafia have the boost of either a second kill with the lovers, or always being at even numbers in day (both of which reduce town EV). like with what we've seen so far 3 scum/nightly kill/lovers/other prs being what they look like then we'd be approaching 90% scum win by EVs (which we all know are probably a

low

estimate based on RC/Mathdino's charisma ev stuff) and i think hectic prefers to balance setups slightly towards town and i know for sure he knows about the EV project stuff, so i don't see this being 9-3 with a nightly kill.

scum could also be an alien faction with 1 kill or s/thing. i could see aliens fitting in with a 'love' flavoured setup. there could be a whole twist about ydrasse's letters that way

[Hopkirk]

this game can't be 9-3 with a nightly kill. that isn't even close to balanced.

[Hopkirk]

factoring in the 8 revealed roles and assuming 1-2 scum outside of those*

[Hopkirk]

you're going to complain to hectic about an unusual setup?

[Hopkirk]

I remember that one from when I was getting meta on you that time

[Hopkirk]

why have you been talking to ali for thirty minutes?

[Hopkirk]

the slots people care about in rough order

(you & Clidd/Ashoka) because they were in a toxic1v1 earlier. Ashoka had a claim which some people don't like
(Uncrowned/ABR)- have been getting decent amounts of attention
(Hopkirk/Pooky)- i think most people TR these slots
(Alisae/MT/Kanna)- i don't think anyone's tried to push these slots meaningfully this game

[Hopkirk]

But also in a sec we’re gonna talk about how laughable it is that you were trying to argue I scumslipped with my opening posts

why are people suggesting that you scumslipped when thats not what I'm suggesting at all
I suggested you randed a role that doesn't have scum PT access and requires you to coordinate the scumkill with another player {probably Uncrowned} but you failed to do even that.

That's not a scum slip.

uh... so as scum (when there's 10 alive) you're saying that menal would think it's a good idea to signal to a partner thinking someone in the thread might respond suggesting who to kill, that person would die, and it wouldn't be considered sus? how exactly does menal's partner respond to that in a way that doesn't draw attention? like can you think of a phrasing? this feels incredibly bad as a strat given last night was at even numbers anyway, where scum sometimes consider no killing anyway if unafaid of prs.

do you have any kind of reason to think a role like this exists?

[Hopkirk]

also, why do you want to flip menal first if you think they need to coordinate a pick? surely the ideal situation would be to go for his partners first since scum might lose their kill tonight because menal couldn't coordinate with them.

it's much more likely scum just have 1-shot or 0-shot kill. i have no idea where your theory is coming from and i don't think it holds up.

my vote is on mena btw, your idea of their role isn't part of that

[Hopkirk]

uh... so as scum (when there's 10 alive) you're saying that menal would think it's a good idea to signal to a partner thinking someone in the thread might respond suggesting who to kill, that person would die, and it wouldn't be considered sus? how exactly does menal's partner respond to that in a way that doesn't draw attention? like can you think of a phrasing? this feels incredibly bad as a strat given last night was at even numbers anyway, where scum sometimes consider no killing anyway if unafaid of prs.

As a joke? Ya he could probably get away with it if he had that role, but I don't think anyone would bat an eye if someone died. I think if one of the players flipped then things look bad.

and if someone jokingly responds 'yeah we'll kill x' then that person dies? i don't get why you think a role like that exists
you're giving the idea too much confidence. you thinking of an idea, without overt reasons to do so, isn't a reasonable reason to privileged that idea over the alternatives

Hop, why do you think I’m scum?

poe from having lots of townreads
my current solve is (Ashoka/you/Uncrowned) or something like that

[Hopkirk]

I wouldn’t expect you to know that specific joke ali, I just think it’s a bizarre place for your mind to go

I found the most recent example of me doing it btw viewtopic.php?f=90&t=84457

i mean no one else has came up with an explanation about why the kill failed that wasn't "scum can't kill" or "scum loverize players during the night instead of killing them" so like /shrug

scum can't kill
scum have limited kills
doctor/other role related reasons
scum chose to no kill
setup stuff

all feel more likely than a traitor that needs to coordinate to do the kill

[Hopkirk]

ABR shares my poe 1640 and followed me onto uncrowned/clidd and has said he'd prefer you, so i don't see enough partners currently. there's some townie perspective in there in quite a few places. could be possible with Ashoka/? i suppose
Kanna i'm sheeping pooky's 'literally 100%' read, i can barely remember their posting
ali is vibecheck

[Hopkirk]

See, no kill. Also, FL's partners assumedly didn't know them either.

Game is solved though. Flip mena, if town I use my one shot weak ability (not full claim) uncrowned or maybe ABR. If scum I potentially use it anyway depending on how sus I am. I wanted to flip menal first because I was leaning ahsoka over Clidd but felt like getrimg confirmation with my role. That's why I kept saying let's vote menal then I'll use assorted random actions on Clidd.

[Hopkirk]

I was less sure that ashokas role was fake than other people (hence less sure on Clidd/Ashoka) because the logic pooky used to justify ashoka's role being very unlikely also made my role very unlikely... which explains the whole no no thing.

I don't get why you're so annoyed Alisae.

[Hopkirk]

One shot weak loveriser + 2 town lovers + neighbour/one shot neogjbouriser + FLs scum role + 2 unclaimed town + 5 hood with 2 scum.

Hey Alisae, see why before I realized it had to be nightless I was pissed when you fakeclaimed doc and I kept asking you to make 100% sure because I said I was considering claiming?

Scum is Uncrowned+Menal+ABR. Pick 2.

[Hopkirk]

i dont really see what's stopping Ydrasse/Hectic from designing a secret nightless though especially when it goes so well with the finding lost lover sort of theme

REPUTATION?????????????????

the last time I was scum in a hectic game, my role pm said I had a factional nightkill.

that was btw a lie because the game had no nights hahahahahah

Also hectic literally just finished modding a game where the scum had to kill 4 of themselves n1, couldn't kill any town except through voting before the 6p, then potentially be forced to shoot scum n2. It's really not something that you shouldn't expect in a hectic game.

[Hopkirk]

Idk what your elim order is, is it tje same as mine as in flip the 3 slots that may include scum?

[Hopkirk]

the current consensusy solve is something like 1 of (AFLNSG+Clidd) and 2 of (ABR+Uncrowned+Menal) right?

Menal probably flips scum with either FL or Clidd so why don't we just yeet Menal then I cop check Clidd, easy

Example of me softing yesterday.

VOTE: menal I'm just going to go on here actively btw since people are commenting that I wasn't on the wagon yesterday when I very clearly supported the wagon and was willing to join, I just prefered a different wagon on different scum first.

[Hopkirk]

One shot weak loveriser

can you explain what this role is pls?

I target someone. If scum I die. If town we're lovers and get a quicktopic.

Assuming this is fully nightless then if we flip town today then my target's role is confirmed either way. If we flip scum I need to run the calcs on whether I still do it.

[Hopkirk]

The all caps multiple posts about how you hate the setup is probably discouraging to a first time mod btw Alisae. Remember the moss can't participate in a toxic 1v1.

[Hopkirk]

there's no way that's a real role

And yet it's confirmable. Why isn't it real?

[Hopkirk]

Nobody quickhammer today because I would like to review some stuff today

[Hopkirk]

Also I wouldn't call it 'bussing' when scum assumedly don't know each other. At that point voting scum is less towncred than modelled.

[Hopkirk]

does it confirm you to the person you target as town?

It confirms that we're lovers

[Hopkirk]

Ubless we're scum together fakeclaimimg

[Hopkirk]

wait who did u target?

I'm going to ask you to reread because if you've missed this then you've missed other stuff/haven't understood the claim. I'm talking about how I'm going to use a one shot action in the future right now.

[Hopkirk]

so if you loverize Alisae and Alisae is town, you will become lovers with Alisae

Alisae will be informed you are now Alisae's lover

Alisae will not know if you are scum or town

You will know Alisae is town?

Yes, points 1/2 are obvious, I've previously asked the mod about point 3 as I wasn't sure, 4 is inherent in weak.

[Hopkirk]

Pooky and MT not townreading me on meta is kinda weird guys, NGL.

[Hopkirk]

Is there a reason for pooky not to massclaim here btw

[Hopkirk]

Okay game isn't winnable anymore.
VOTE: Alisae

Is this you conceding as scum due to my claim?

well you did try to save Flavor Leaf and there are crumbs from you to him and I'm not sure if your role makes sense in the setup.

I had a specific 3p solve and was voting a different one. Are you arguing that I wasn't willing to switch to FL when I made it very clear I was willing based on everything I was saying?
Why doesn't my role make sense?

[Hopkirk]

Gg

[Hopkirk]

I was voting scum yesterday pooky, I for had a small off-by-scum error in my solve of Alisae.

I was kinda nistly sheeping Alisae on town FL tbh

[Hopkirk]

Wow we spedrun it before team mafia.

[Hopkirk]

I'm assuming that that's a legit concede.

[Hopkirk]

Woah, less than two weeks for a 12p.

What was your role Alisae? I'm curious about the setup

[Hopkirk]

I like how they called out their partner signalling to them.

[Hopkirk]

But the second scum mechanically is veeeery likely to be in the hood, so on the FL flip with my role here I can see the issue. You can't really justify voting outside the hood, likely multiple scum in there, and I can clear 1

[Hopkirk]

Yeah I think you lose lategame lelo here, but it's not a guarantee.

If one of you/menal died what happened to the kill?

[Hopkirk]

@uncronwned - I felt like you were overly tunnely and not really prone to reconsidering reads. It made you hard to townread/work with from my perspective. Idk if that's a common theme in your games, but that was my perspective on it.

FL- with regard to what your were complaining about with people being more likely to vote you because it's you... it feels like that's self inflicted. I generally give townpoints to semi convincing ATE until I see the person do it as scum, so you've lost a reason I'd have to TR you in future.

[Hopkirk]

You had a good scumgame Alisae but the circumstances were kind of unfortunate. Plus there were a lot of people who are good at obctowning here.

[Hopkirk]

'Star crossed lovers'

I liked the twist on Romeo and Juliet here where Romeo dies and Juliet buys an AK and goes on a revenge based murder rampage. Feel free to make the movie if you want FL.

This concede probably hurt the mods who I'm assuming may have written flavour in advance for future days. Poor ydrasse , I'll read it if you want to post it.

Kind of surprised to see that hectic didn't modkill kanna again, I guess it's because she was in the game this time, unlike death curse.

[Hopkirk]

Sorry Hop i just thought your reasoning end of D2 was forced but now I see the claim might have messed w/ it + I got sus since you suspected kanna/me/unc at different points and still to at least some extent

I never suspected kanna or you that I'm aware of. I might have mentioned I was considering you, but that means I haven't sorted you yet, not that I think you're scum. When I sorted you both you were sorted easily as town.

[Hopkirk]

Ugh bussing.
I recently had (irl) someone try to bus me D1 in a 7p no flip game where I was their known roleblocking partner. Why do people love it so much.

[Hopkirk]

By irl I mean over discord.

Bussing feels far more common than it should be

[Hopkirk]

tbh i just want to see a game where all of three scum hard TR each other from d1 and just vouch for each other on meta and get suspicious of people doubting their strong townreads. Now that would mess with my heuristics.

[Hopkirk]

tbh i just want to see a game where all of three scum hard TR each other from d1 and just vouch for each other on meta and get suspicious of people doubting their strong townreads. Now that would mess with my heuristics.

I want to get a partner that
- Wants to play scum
- Is active enough to post
- Isn't trying to sabotage their own alignment.

i'm not sure it's fair to blame Menal for low activity when they were ill
playing scum must feel really weird

[Hopkirk]

I haven't gotten a partner since Flopz and in that game koba just kinda lost the game for town by themself.

a good partner do you mean?

that game was a great meme. Flopz kept killing the people who's posts he liked reading/made the game fun for him (me then hectic) then started not enjoying the game as much for

impossible to understand reasons

[Hopkirk]

idunno guys what do you think?

let's take best case
-Menal dies 7 alive
-Hop clears uncrowned or ABR (probably ABR because uncrowned would be more likely to vote me anyway based on their trajectory and waste the clear)
-you kill Pooky since you wanted to last night
D3 - 6 alive. Vote off other off say uncrowned then you kill me and abr
N3 - you kill Clidd because
MT/Kanna/you lelo doesn't always see you lethaled tbh

[Hopkirk]

if pooky dies i'd still have claimed there because pooky wasn't in my poe(s) so 2 people die next night and you lose one of the mislethals you're modelling i think?
d3- mena dies
n3 - ABR/Hop die
d4- Uncrowned dies
Leaves you in a 4p lelo of (you/Kanna/Clidd/MT), is that so much better for you? Realistically it just means you're in lelo with the person who's townie enough you wouldn't bring them to lelo instead of without them right?
although this is factoring out the two unclaimed town power roles

[Hopkirk]

well factoring out one since we assumed pooky dies in this model

[Hopkirk]

Well we've heard Alisae big up Hopkirk and Flopz here, it's uncontroversial to say that Hectic is amazing, and everyone knows how terrifying Zaiden can be. They'd make a pretty good team 'team 'team' team' team, don't you think?

pedit - i don't think the setup is townsided without me. it's slightly scumsided without me since straight up 9-3 is perfectly balanced, you can kill if one of you/menal dies which is a big swing towards scum (9-3 night included is what 80%+ scum win), town lovers are -ve utility. You do need something like me to swing it back to town, otherwise your kill being there at all and especially being there every night after one scum dies is heavily scumsided. Like without me and without the kill at all this is either very lightly scumsided (depending on what the two unclaimed town prs are though here)

[Hopkirk]

Hi kanna *waves*

*belated wave*

sorry, i went to a picnic. i'll read, i'll read

and we buy the concession and are treating this as postgame now

[Hopkirk]

well we fastballed the d1 vote, just make the speedrun gambit and joke about killing someone in the hood, kill them, drive a quickwagon on someone in the hood, openly coordinate the kill on the last person in the hood from inside the hood while they watch in helpless terror and you've built your own scum QT.

sure, it's not a great play, but how often do you get the chance to make your own scum-QT in a setup where you don't have a QT.

[Hopkirk]

like ig the setup looks fine and balanced its just a game thats more fun for the mod to watch than it is for the players to play like I think its very likely that if u ask the scum players in this setup if they're having a good time they're likely going to respond with no.
Scum can only truely have fun in the setup when all of the scum are working together and are perfectly in sync.

i would say that being scum with a daychat sounds a lot more fun than being scum without a daychat

[Hopkirk]

like how are you supposed to just vibe with each other at that point. would ydrasse really be against people vibing

[Hopkirk]

i mean game balance is a valid reason to hinder scum...

[Hopkirk]

call me old fashion but i liked the good old days where all the scum knew each other from the start and all the town know them too because everyone was bad at playing scum

[Hopkirk]

i can't believe ali was scum oh my god ALI

it's beginning to look like you may have had better lelo odds than you thought

[Hopkirk]

like ur a mod
ur supposed to design a fun game for your players thats fun to play
right?

*Hectic begins sweating and tearfully rips up his setup where everyone is a miller mason (2p sets) except for the two mafia cops*

[Hopkirk]

so the lelo would have been a crossvote btw Alisae and MT with Kanna picking.
hey Kanna, who do you think you'd have picked?

[Hopkirk]

:c

but i wanted it to go on forever and forever...

wow, throwing a lot of shade by posting videos not available in my country...

so the lelo would have been a crossvote btw Alisae and MT with Kanna picking.
hey Kanna, who do you think you'd have picked?

That would have been something holy shit

this is essentially what alisae/me have said the plan would be (unless the last town PR(s) claimed and affected this i guess)

[Hopkirk]

sorry hoppy, i thought i had you as hard scum secretly @_@

Woah that's pretty tragic. What caused this

[Hopkirk]

that would be something of a trust tell alisae

[Hopkirk]

'I only do this as town because I only do ANYTHING I do as town because I replace out whenever I'm not town. My very existence is a trust tell. I am a trust tell in human form. Fear me mortals'

Trust me, I wrote the guide to avoiding modkills (over in mafia discussion)

[Hopkirk]

Pooky's existence has high utility because you can replace the words 'bare' and 'bear' with pookythemagicalbear. It's a really Georgebailey of a name, that's for sure.

[Hopkirk]

Perfect for a love themed setup. I hope you and Kanna don't play together in the mod's next collaboration: Hatred mafia

[Hopkirk]

can you two just kiss already?

[Hopkirk]

like you've both told me in dms how you feel about each other at this point right?

[Hopkirk]

HOPKORK NO

but it's fate...

[Hopkirk]

wait are we not supposed to have a load of mafiascum ships?

[Hopkirk]

what's your favourite kanna ship alisae?

[Hopkirk]

i loved the toxic 1v1s especially FL/ABR, FL/Clidd, FL/Mena, FL/Hopkirk, FL/ Alisae, FL/Kanna, FL/Pooky, FL/Infinity, FL/Hectic, FL/Ydrasse, and FL/MT.

kanna has her pick of pooky/alisae/uncrowned. Shame we know it has to be Pooky. Sorry alisae, but that's my ship.

[Hopkirk]

what was UC's old one?

can't believe MT isn't even going to comment on the Kanna-shipping. Woah.

[Hopkirk]

someone should make a thread rating their favourite MS ships out of 10

[Hopkirk]

Hey Alisae, how would you feel if it turned out I was fakeclaimimg and you conceded based on a non existent role

Not that that's the case but...

[Hopkirk]

That should have been a

[Hopkirk]

did you get to the bit where scum conceded yet ABR?

[Hopkirk]

Yeah, sure. Scum concede. Will post stuff later.

I think the correct play in Alisae's position is to start a REALLY toxic 1v1, then act like the 1v1 pissed you off so much that you have no choice but to sub out.

More seriously, subbing out rather than conceding on someone else's behalf is definitely the correct move there.

[Hopkirk]

I'm not sure which post I intended to quote but that wasn't it.

I can understand your position that nobody else in your team seemed to be invested in the team (FL due to subbing out and Menal due to unfortunate illness mostly preventing his access to the thread) but personally I would have preferred to play it out - even if playing it out would have likely involved me dying the next night.

[Hopkirk]

I liked the game flavour. I'm also giggling a little at picturing Alisae as scum in Hectic's last game.

Alisae - 'So six of us are scum in a 13p game, we lose if any of us are voted out in the two d1 votes, then after that we have to kill 4 of our team (publicly revealed) without getting a nightkill followed by another phase where you aren't being very clear on what will happen?'
Hectic - 'Yeah, and I've given some of the scum different roles pms and there's some secret mechanics afterwards lol.'
Alisae - '...'

[Hopkirk]

i uh... we got a bit excited

[Hopkirk]

Real talk, why did y'all quicklim me

I was just sheeping Hopkirk :3

Sorry Inf <3

I uh... wouldn't recommend sheeping my scumreads early d1.

[Hopkirk]

Yeah, FL went from a townread to a top scumread for me based on their replace out, and I was probably one of the more charitable ones there...
I enjoyed the game.

[Hopkirk]

like the setup was leaning towards scumsided currently so i'm not sure adding more scum power makes sense?
depending what pooky/the other unclaimed town were that is

[Hopkirk]

oh... Pooky and Kanna's role makes this shoot back up from scumsided to townsided then

[Hopkirk]

I'm going be EVs here. Like it's balanced if nightless but scum have a kill most nights

[Hopkirk]

until i saw the masons which is... a major boost to town

oh yeah @Pooky - so your 100% read ability on Kanna isn't legit? asking for teammafia-knowing-whether-to-sheep purposes

[Hopkirk]

I think scum realistically only gets 1/2 kills if I understand correctly, no?

as soon as either Menal/Alisae died the other one gets a kill every night, so either all of the mafia are alive for a while or mafia starts killing early

i'm working without the masons in mind here. assume mafia-neighbour gets voted out d1, if mafia shoots outside the lovers then that's 8-2 with me being the only meaningful town pr offsetting scum probably not having daychat at that point. 7-2 is 70% scum win and even numbers boosts that a bit. that's a good lean towards scum even if town gets one d1. it's still just 7-2 if they shoot the lovers.

the masons change things a lot though, but i feel its fairly scumsided without them. the issue only comes up if FL's scum role gets lethaled... but pretty much every setup swings towards town's favour if you vote out scum early...

[Hopkirk]

I think you had at least a 25% chance of winning still Alisae. All it takes is to sway Kanna/Clidd/MT to vote one of each other while having a fair amount of time to carefully pick the lelo. Just lelo paranoia alone gives you a reasonable shot. Not discussing it with the partner feels more meh looking back now.

[Hopkirk]

killing pooky essentially changes nothing Alisae, what are you talking about? the only impact of killing pooky means that lelo is (you/MT/Clidd/Kanna) instead of (you/the two of those you don't choose to nightkill right before that)

[Hopkirk]

i'm not entirely sure what you mean by Menal bussing either tbh, you were the one bussing them in this thread?

[Hopkirk]

you don't have to, it's the same right?

assume Menal lethal - leaves 8 alive with you as only scum.
you kill let's say Pooky - 7 alive
mislethal on uncrowned - 6 alive
kill on me/ABR - 4 alive (you/MT/Kanna/Clidd)


pooky dies
assume Menal lethal - leaves 7 alive with you as only scum
you kill let's say kanna - 6 alive
vote on uncrowned - 5 alive
you kill me/ABR (or you can keep us in if you think you can convince people to vote me) - 3 alive (you/MT/Clidd)

[Hopkirk]

(actually swap Clidd/Kanna in the above because he was never getting voted, same results though and no extra vote out needed)
honestly not killing pooky is better for you as it takes you to a 4p lelo instead of a 3p one and, if forced, you can do the kill later.
your win con is Kanna voting MT or Clidd voting MT based on which lelo you prefer either way, alternatively if no pooky kill you can pick lelos with Clidd in too

either way you win on 2 mislethals, one of which wouldn't have been impossible

[Hopkirk]

given my record i am reticent to ever even speak about scum strategy but it did seem to me that even yesterday alisae your play was driven by some kind of spite

frankly i'm astounded that immediately on day three people didn't suspect you given the whole mafia pt thing (although it's possible i missed this, i didn't read the newest day very closely). i was speaking completely truthfully when i said that the amount of evidence available didn't really warrant the theory.

Mena started it by having a weird read on me.
If he just TR’d me I try to tr him and I don’t need to bus

... you started that? or at least you hard drove it from what i can see

[Hopkirk]

i feel bad for menal now yeah and agree you should have replaced out rather than concede. it is definitely less fun for the town not to see the game to completion and it outright isn't playing to wincon. like i prefer town to what i assume scum is like, but the game only works if people do play scum when randed it.
i also think you flung an over the top amount of attacks at Ydrasse (a first time mod) attacking the setup/moderating in several pages of full capitals when the setup wasn't especially out of the ordinary

[Hopkirk]

i was initially under the impression menal had a similar stance to you that they didn't want to continue really in the hood-qt, now that they've said they actively wanted the game to continue i have a different view of the concede to initially

[Hopkirk]

Its always just a lose lose situation for me I think.
Pedit why would anyone want to replace into a slot to find out it’s doomed? How is that fun?

like north did? FL's slot was in a worse state then you'd have been. unless you're in a lot of other games and it'd be an elletell of a replace out

[Hopkirk]

Hey Alisae how would you have felt if you were scum in this game HEctic just modded:

7 town, 6 scum (13p)
if scum and lethaled d1 scum lose. two votes before first night (bussing looses the game)
assuming no scum lethal in the two d1 votes scum must pick 4 of the scum to kill (leaving 2 scum, 5 town)
next day people can form 2 pairs of dancers who are immune to the nightkill and there's a lethal. so if town all dance together scum may be forced to self-kill, and scum can't guarantee a kill on someone they want here
then continues with a nightly kill at (4-1 or 3-2)

[Hopkirk]

he difference in replacement culture between mafiascum and other mafia websites is evidence enough of this

@NSG: what is this, out of interest?

[Hopkirk]

Hey Alisae how would you have felt if you were scum in this game HEctic just modded:

7 town, 6 scum (13p)
if scum and lethaled d1 scum lose. two votes before first night (bussing looses the game)
assuming no scum lethal in the two d1 votes scum must pick 4 of the scum to kill (leaving 2 scum, 5 town)
next day people can form 2 pairs of dancers who are immune to the nightkill and there's a lethal. so if town all dance together scum may be forced to self-kill, and scum can't guarantee a kill on someone they want here
then continues with a nightly kill at (4-1 or 3-2)

Sounds like a game I wouldn’t want to play

what would you have done seeing you rolled scum in that setup? knowing there were two week deadlines for each vote, not knowing about the bulletproof dance mechanics until later, and assuming the scum did what they did in that game and revealed 2 of them had role pms kind of implying they might be traitors working against the others (but not really)?

[Hopkirk]

I think FL doomed the slot and you were dead on arrival unfortunately.

i agree moderately with that assessment, but i also think that i could have believably just said that he was fakeclaiming.

I didnt even read his claim

I ddint even read any of your content posts

Mena and FL were 100% caught before FL even claimed just my 2c

FL still had me uncertain until he did the classic 'FL-replace-out-scumclaim' move.

[Hopkirk]

hm, i think i find it harder to reevaluate my townreads (that townread me too) to neutral/scummier positions in my readlists when i'm not confident in my towniness level relative to the gamestate. that's soom good introspection that could help me. feels the same as in deathcurse where my one wrong TR was the one where they were defending me a lot. i think i'm too prone to being buddied if i'm not heavily TR on average

[Hopkirk]

Its always just a lose lose situation for me I think.
Pedit why would anyone want to replace into a slot to find out it’s doomed? How is that fun?

I would've been PUMPED personally like 'fuck yeah this is gonna be a challenge'

Is the idea of Fun only winning?

We should play together some time

it's like some people don't think the point of mafia is hear memeing with a bit of solving thrown in so that people don't policy-lethal you

[Hopkirk]

The game was entirely winnable even if there’s disagreement on the extent of that and given that it was conceding and claiming scum with me was totally unacceptable

How do u win?

getting the person who TR you (Kanna) to vote MT over you. Kanna isn't infallible and isn't sure in retrospect (citation needed)

[Hopkirk]

You still didn’t answer me on why u bussed?

he said & i agree he wasn't hard bussing? he threw some shade at you is all i can see, then you went for the hard bus.

[Hopkirk]

The game was entirely winnable even if there’s disagreement on the extent of that and given that it was conceding and claiming scum with me was totally unacceptable

How do u win?

getting the person who TR you (Kanna) to vote MT over you. Kanna isn't infallible and isn't sure in retrospect (citation needed)

Kanna thinks it coulda happened but I doubt it. She just reads and sees that I make the most sense to be scum.
How does Mena win?

Menal never survives today. It's only you who can carry it to a win there. I can see your point, but I think if it's a generally held position then it's not good for the site tbh. Like if you enjoy town then how would it affect your experience if scumteams frequently conceded when they thought they were very likely to lose on d3 and games frequently ended before lategame?

[Hopkirk]

I was actually about to attack Hopkirk cuz I didn’t think his role could exist since I was a mason and I thought mafia couldn’t nightkill lol

we'd have still voted mena then i'd have gone through with the loverise and cleared someone sus right? did you think my role was scum-loveriser? if so i feel like i could have convinced you that unconnected-scum-Hopkirk doesn't claim that out of nowhere d3 when it doesn't really help him whereas townhop has been crumbing it since d1 and it makes perfect sense for him to claim it

ABR, uncrowned and hop executed probably

I respect your spirit


Look guys I think town wins this even if it was mountainous all vanilla town just based on the player list

This is my favorite player list ever, I love all of you!

i did like this playerlist.

[Hopkirk]

Menal never survives today. It's only you who can carry it to a win there. I can see your point, but I think if it's a generally held position then it's not good for the site tbh. Like if you enjoy town then how would it affect your experience if scumteams frequently conceded when they thought they were very likely to lose on d3 and games frequently ended before lategame?

Feels great

it can feel good, but if it was... really frequent?

one of my most memorable games was a resistance/avalon game with a concede
about ten seconds in i look at each of the two people who are scum and ask them 'would the mafia like to concede?'
they shared a glance then sadly nodded and agreed they would like to concede because they knew their reaction to the question was already game over
they technically won as they guessed someone else was merlin, but it still felt good

if it was frequent... less so

[Hopkirk]

Clidd outdueling flavor leaf turned the game around for the town imo. It was v impressive.

yeah, that was a great performance clidd. my SR on you was wavering pre-1v1 but the 1v1/subsequent replace out that flipped my FL read i completely owe to clidd.

[Hopkirk]

didn't scripts that fully ignore other users get banned? just noticed that in your sig nsg.
does the highlight posts one work on blue background MS? i like the looks of that one

[Hopkirk]

one of my most memorable games was a resistance/avalon game with a concede
about ten seconds in i look at each of the two people who are scum and ask them 'would the mafia like to concede?'
they shared a glance then sadly nodded and agreed they would like to concede because they knew their reaction to the question was already game over
they technically won as they guessed someone else was merlin, but it still felt good

Are you in like a telepath circle IRL or something hop?

Good old 'guessing presented confidently' when it's a one in six then judging reactions when you say each of their names is petty useful.
The mafia circle Hectic and I belong to sadly isn't telepathic.

[Hopkirk]

Well now I feel bad

[Hopkirk]

it's pretty weird having no hard-lurkers or lethalbait. good feeling too

[Hopkirk]

my co-mod was asleep/busy too

i feel like 'asleep' being first here is some pretty serious shade on hectic

it wouldn't have made sense not to call the game there tbh. there's essential nil possibility we don't vote alisae/menal there after a clear scum hardclaim

[Hopkirk]

aahhHh the memories NnNNNOOOO

yeah you should feel guilty for what you did to poor Pooky

(jk)

[Hopkirk]

wait did everyone have a QT except me

[Hopkirk]

thanks for holding ydrasse's sanity together hectic

[Hopkirk]

hopkirk im looking fwd to our next game together

yay
any reason why so that i can double down on it in a weird way because i'm desperate for your approval that completely ruins it?
i feel like we started vibing well in the the middle

[Hopkirk]

reading through the spectator topic i've realized my posting style is amazing at leaving subtle crumbs for literally anything

[Hopkirk]

uh... are you sure you didn't want to redact anything mods? the mod pt is really heating up where i'm up to...

[Hopkirk]

editing hectic's posts to include was interesting
also editing out his mentions of me... clearly just a trick from ydrasse to get me out of the way so you can have hectic all to yourself

[Hopkirk]

one piece of advice though, when you get a stupid role like that just claim VT or you will get lynched

i had the sense to hard idle n1 & n2. d3 i felt like i was happy enough with my poe that i was going to try and die targetting scum to confirm scum/remove myself from the poe since some of my townreads didn't especially tr me and i trusted them to follow through after that

claiming it if i got put on the chair earlier (like pre-lethal)... might not have gone well

[Hopkirk]

i feel like hectic will get mad with me if i start posting pics of his face. we've already had a few toxic 1v1s about posting pictures of each other's pets. i felt the pictures he took of my goldfish's empty bowl were especially distasteful after the tasting he did

although he has actually doxed us both on the site kind of

[Hopkirk]

editing hectic's posts to include was interesting
also editing out his mentions of me... clearly just a trick from ydrasse to get me out of the way so you can have hectic all to yourself

i was afraid you'd loverize him and then i would be all alone, no one using their abilities on lil ol' me... im sorry hopkirk

Lotta bad opinions on Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind in spec thread which is a GREAT film

Also I have no redactions from the hood

listen the concept and the ending are very good. i like those two things. they are rather fun and i am fan! but there was a section in the middle where it just got like, super weird and unenjoyable to me but i was also half asleep trying to watch it. like that is what weighs it down for me but all of the stuff surrounding that and the themes is good. but ultimately it cannot carry the parts where he's like, a child or WHATEVER.

thanks for coming to my ted talk.

it's... it's ok

[Hopkirk]

[Hopkirk]

can't believe anahit got all my references to 150 year old russian literature tbh

i would have posted a pic in facewithaname before but the person i challenged to toxic 1v1 cute off didn't want to. then they said i wasn't cute and got permabanned from the site. that was a wild ride.

[Hopkirk]

i love the hectic quoting each post in the neighbourhood and ydrasse watching in stunned horror interaction in the spectator pt

[Hopkirk]

i would have posted a pic in facewithaname before but the person i challenged to toxic 1v1 cute off didn't want to. then they said i wasn't cute and got permabanned from the site. that was a wild ride.

Whats the long version of this story??

I skipped over every single part where Ali and Mena 1v1'd this game cause i figured it wasn't going to be AI OOPS

LOL! No worries

we'd had a previous toxic 1v1 in another game where they said i wasn't cute then we flipped them as scum then flipped their partner and won
i decided to bring it up again and was sus of their overly hostile reaction as it felt they were being overly mean in an inorganic way
a poll of the rest of the thread gave a consensus that hopkirk was cute with around 4 votes in the positive and 2 against. one person thought the counter i gave of this was my reads list and tried to start a toxic 1v1 before i corrected them
we continued the debate a little more, then they got banned for unrelated reasons (alt of a banned user i think)
their last post on the site (i think) involved them saying 'Hopkirk is not cute'
both people who voted against me on the poll later flipped scum so it's arguably the most solid scumtell i've ever discovered

[Hopkirk]

ok wtf hectic why did you individually quote over 200 posts at like 5 in the morning? i'm siding with ydrasse on that one

[Hopkirk]

hectic i'm concerned

[Hopkirk]

what tarkovsky stuff should i watch first? I was thinking of doing the mirror soon. Haven't got around to Stalker/Solaris/Andrei Rublev yet (amazing film to meme about btw) but they're all on the list

[Hopkirk]

hey, nobody in this game got modkilled despite five of us quoting our role pms then quickly editing them out of our posts. i like to think my guide helped

[Hopkirk]

hey, nobody in this game got modkilled despite five of us quoting our role pms then quickly editing them out of our posts. i like to think my guide helped

it's the perfect crime! Just like killing Lucy Palmer at 5.07pm on the 13th November and making it look like an accidental decapitation.

Funny thing is, people are gonna think you're just memeing so you can tell everyone what you did and you still won't get caught

Are you three all friends irl or is it just hop and hectic?

which three?

[Hopkirk]

hey, nobody in this game got modkilled despite five of us quoting our role pms then quickly editing them out of our posts. i like to think my guide helped

Funny thing is, people are gonna think you're just memeing so you can tell everyone what you did and you still won't get caught

it's the perfect crime! Just like killing Lucy Palmer at 5.07pm on the 13th November and making it look like an accidental decapitation.

i know all about perfect crimes and yet i still get quotes messed up sometimes

[Hopkirk]

which three?

You/shiki/hectic

I'm not sure i've we've even played together before, don't know her outside of mafiascum.
Me/Hectic do have a fair few irl friends who've used the site. I think it's about eight of us now? One notable mention included someone who I played two games with about three years before we met outside of mafiascum and they thought the name 'Hopkirk' sounded familiar. I then found the games we were in.

I'm going to sleep now before hectic starts making jokes comparing our sleeping patterns. Someone convince Hectic to watch Mullholland DR. while i'm gone

[Hopkirk]

what tarkovsky stuff should i watch first? I was thinking of doing the mirror soon. Haven't got around to Stalker/Solaris/Andrei Rublev yet (amazing film to meme about btw) but they're all on the list

are you looking for the post office box answer i've been working on since hectic asked me about films that is far from useful but can be used to build something for one film at a time fairly well or the which order would you watch these four films?

if the latter, my answer would be chronologically, though i'm not sure why you've selected those four specifically, as sacrifice is in a lot of ways the best and is working on a lot of the questions asked by solaris/mirror from another angle

I'm not sure i've we've even played together before, don't know her outside of mafiascum.

there is a non-zero chance that last silent star did not actually occur, this is true

General recs are welcome
ah TRQ meant J, I get it now

Someone convince Hectic to watch Mullholland DR. while i'm gone

i like when lynch makes direct reference to maya deren (opening scene of mullholland drive, stairs in inland empire) because it reminds everyone to watch maya deren films so i am very thankful for this

Inland empire is an amazing film for when you want to talk about films and get funny looks

i should post meshes of the afternoon because it is the maya deren film that david lynch is most frequently referencing and it is her most well known but instead i will post very eye of night because it is my favourite even though i have already posted it elsewhere on site on some account in some thread forgotten by time

i'll add it to the list

which three?

You/shiki/hectic

I'm not sure i've we've even played together before, don't know her outside of mafiascum.
Me/Hectic do have a fair few irl friends who've used the site. I think it's about eight of us now? One notable mention included someone who I played two games with about three years before we met outside of mafiascum and they thought the name 'Hopkirk' sounded familiar. I then found the games we were in.

I'm going to sleep now before hectic starts making jokes comparing our sleeping patterns. Someone convince Hectic to watch Mullholland DR. while i'm gone

already done and done, dw dw

nice