One Night Stand [Game Over]

[Alisae]

also, why do you want to flip menal first if you think they need to coordinate a pick? surely the ideal situation would be to go for his partners first since scum might lose their kill tonight because menal couldn't coordinate with them.

because if it is menal and my theory is correct, that means that there's 1 scum confirmed in 4 players and if we can kill the other one we can potentially get some confirmed town.

[Alisae]

I wouldn’t expect you to know that specific joke ali, I just think it’s a bizarre place for your mind to go

I found the most recent example of me doing it btw viewtopic.php?f=90&t=84457

i mean no one else has came up with an explanation about why the kill failed that wasn't "scum can't kill" or "scum loverize players during the night instead of killing them" so like /shrug

[Alisae]

and if someone jokingly responds 'yeah we'll kill x' then that person dies? i don't get why you think a role like that exists
you're giving the idea too much confidence. you thinking of an idea, without overt reasons to do so, isn't a reasonable reason to privileged that idea over the alternatives

Because there's evidence for it existing via his entrance and ydra though it would be cool not to mention a pair of lovers flipped so it could have flavor similar to that

[Alisae]

I wouldn’t expect you to know that specific joke ali, I just think it’s a bizarre place for your mind to go

I found the most recent example of me doing it btw viewtopic.php?f=90&t=84457

i mean no one else has came up with an explanation about why the kill failed that wasn't "scum can't kill" or "scum loverize players during the night instead of killing them" so like /shrug

scum can't kill
scum have limited kills
doctor/other role related reasons
scum chose to no kill
setup stuff

all feel more likely than a traitor that needs to coordinate to do the kill

I mean any of those and a traitor that needs to coordinate to do the kill can all be realistic possibilities. Its one of them and one of is right hopefully

[Alisae]

Mena what do you think of the FL claim

[Alisae]

nah its probably just uncrowned mena fl

[Alisae]

pooky isn't scum hopkirk isn't scum mena isn't town and its rather unlikely clidd is scum

[Alisae]

now what you fail to understand uncrowned is that my vote is actually on nsg/fl

[Alisae]

like ur reads are just scummy bad like idunno what to say
honestly you seem like scum who doesn't want to bus

[Alisae]

Also what I don't get is people think I'm tunneled on mena but like
Albert B. Rampage could maybe be scum if Uncrowned is town
Pooky has just been really town and not scummy across the whole game
MT is obvtown
Kanna is obvtown and notice how FL and Mena are both trying to expand the PoE to include this slot? ya that's not fishy at all lol xD
Hopkirk is only scum if we start flipping townies
and Clidd just seemed really town when he claimed and when his wagon was at his peak

No one else is townier than these players so like ya

[Alisae]

like I don't see why I should re-evaluate on anyone right now tbh.
I would rather just flip a player and if we're wrong then re-evaluate.

pedit: lol no he isn't dude he's not more town then any of the players I just listed

[Alisae]

honestly Uncrowned, if ur town, just hammer NSG

[Alisae]

NSG flipping town is the best thing that could possibly happen for you if ur town

[Alisae]

holy shit you're so bad dude

miselim when you have the room to miselim is fine and if NSG flipped town that would give your slot credability

what is it with townies thinking that if you ever miselim town its bad like what?
Do people not get the fact that if you do mis elim you get a lot of information from the mis elim and that information is enough to help solve the game

[Alisae]

ali why aren't you pushing for pooky to hammer?

he's on the wagon currently no?

[Alisae]

If Pooky wasn't on the wagon but pushing NSG slot then yes that would be really strange

[Alisae]

but no seriously this flip is good for you regardless of what it flips
- we have the room to fuck up
- ur not going to derail it for one of your own scumreads because no one will listen to you
- this flipping town makes you look more good and makes the people who were starting to suspect FL/NSG look more bad due to the fact you were trying to stop this wagon from happening.
- this flipping scum is good because it means that a scum dies.

pedit: OH THEN KILL HER DUDE

[Alisae]

pooky has been pushing this wagon all day without being on it

can we please just elim this holy shit

its better to flip the slot and to see if it actually flips town before suspecting pooky. If it flips town then it makes you look more town and looks pooky look more bad

[Alisae]

holy fuck end the day please

[Alisae]

give us a flip or something christ

[Alisae]

see Uncrowned
now if this flips town this looks good for you and if this flips scum it makes you look bad.
Let's hope that this flips town if ur town, ok?

pedit: lol

[Alisae]

ya I'm sure you'll get shot over Kanna if NSG flips town or Pooky if NSG flips scum yep totally sure

[Alisae]

I'll listen to you in hood if this flips town ok?

[Alisae]

The game is over.

Kill Mena.
If Mena flips scum this clears hopkirk, otherwise kill hopkirk. hopkirk should flip scum if mena flips town.

If Mena!scum, use both mis elims on ABR and Uncrowned then kill me in F3 as I'm the only other person who is likely to be Mena's partner as the others don't make sense.

If Hopkirk scum and Mena is town, then the last scum is 100% in ABR and Uncrowned and you have 1 mis elim to spare at that point the game is just over.

[Alisae]

VOTE: Mena

[Alisae]

Like if its not Uncrowned or ABR and Mena is scum then scum just deserves to win the game ig.

[Alisae]

ywall can do whatever ywall want tho.
like if you follow my instructions the game is over.
Maybe there's a chance if I suddenly become this super townie player but like I feel like you can't justify not killing me over literally anyone else in the playerlist considering how bad my D2 looks for me.

[Alisae]

like if Mena is actually scum and Uncrowned ABR are both town, then I don't see how I don't become the F3 elim tbh.

[Alisae]

mena busses

[Alisae]

viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81719

[Alisae]

also inside the hood, he didn't suddenly become townie and was still quite literally still the scummiest person in the hood

[Alisae]

like he was even trying to gaslight MT its bad dude.

[Alisae]

Like nothing Mena has down is more townie than any of these players:
Albert B. Rampage
PookyTheMagicalBear
Morning Tweet
Kanna
Alisae
Hopkirk
Uncrowned
clidd

and that list includes scum btw since obviously if mena is scum then thats the whole playerlist.

[Alisae]

ABR in hood was way more townier than Hopkirk and if its Hopkirk all we need to do is just flip Mena and if Mena is town then its Hopkirk.
If Mena is scum then Hopkirk is likely town.

They're never scum with each other, its always one or the other.

[Alisae]

I think my elim order is game winning

[Alisae]

now
keep in mind i'm town so if it gets to the point where {ABR, Uncrowned} both flip town and I'm stuck in F3.
I don't think I win the 1v1 with whoever 1v1s me as scum there.

[Alisae]

I think the other 2 scum roles can kill.
If this was a nightless game that was not advertised as nightless I would be very surprised cause for scum to not have a kill and not advertise that honestly that doesn't sound fun to play.

It would be difficult to get players base on premise.

[Alisae]

Also if you kill town and a night kill does come out because ywall acted on the assumption that a kill doesn't exist unless we kill all of the scum then we get punished for making a bad decision.

pedit: We don't know the other roles. That was likely a backup measure for if the other 2 roles die before FL does.

[Alisae]

it would be quite shitty if your 2 players that could kill died d1 and d2 and the 3rd scum player was just left to not be able to kill and have go against the world..
no one would want to play that.

[Alisae]

If that were true why wouldn't they kill last night?

because they're unwell

[Alisae]

the revealed scum PM shows that they gain a factional nightkill when they are reduced to 1 player - so its highly probable that's true on all of their role pms.

NO IUTS NOT POOKY


YOU DO NOT DESIGN A NIGHTLESS GAME AND NOT TELL YOUYR PLAYERS ITS NIGHTLESS POOKY WHAT THE FUCK

[Alisae]

YOU DO NOT DESIGN A NIGHTLESS GAME AND NOT TELL YOUYR PLAYERS ITS NIGHTLESS POOKY WHAT THE FUCK

[Alisae]

YOU DO NOT DESIGN A NIGHTLESS GAME AND NOT TELL YOUYR PLAYERS ITS NIGHTLESS POOKY WHAT THE FUCK

[Alisae]

NO STOP
YOU REALIZE HOW MUCH OF A DICK MOVE THAT IS

WHAT IF I MODDED SOME MYSTERY GAME WITH A MYSTERY THEME AND IT TURNS OUT SURPRISE IT WAS FLIPPLESS MOUNTAINOUS MULTIBALL AND NOT TOLD ANYONE

ITS TEH SAME FUCKING CONCEPT POOKY

[Alisae]

• You will gain a factional kill if you are the sole remaining mafia.

This line is probably in every mafia role pm.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE 2 OTHER ROLES TO NIGHT KILL ITS JUST A SAFETY MEASURE LIKE THE FUCK

[Alisae]

NO ITS NOT

[Alisae]

WHY WOULD HECTIC AND IRCHER REVIEW A GAME THATS NIGHTLESS AND NOT TELL YDRA TO ADVERTISE THAT ITS NIGHTLESS

LIKE WHAT THE FUCK

[Alisae]

IF THATS ACTUALLY A THING THEN WHY WOULD YOU EVER JOIN A YDRA GAME LIKE EVER
WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PLAY GAMES BY A MOD WHO WON'T TELL YOU "OH THIS GAME IS NIGHTLESS/MULTIBALL/FLIPLESS/WHATEVER"

LIKE WHY WOULD YOU NOT TELL YOUR PLAYERS THAT

[Alisae]

i dont really see what's stopping Ydrasse/Hectic from designing a secret nightless though especially when it goes so well with the finding lost lover sort of theme

REPUTATION?????????????????

[Alisae]

Also it's technically not nightless

IF UR SCUM AND U FIND OUT SURPRISE YOU DON'T HAVE A NIGHTKILL UNLESS SCUM DIES, THEN THAT IS NOT FUN TO PLAY. PERIOD. END OF CONVERSATION.

[Alisae]

I was less sure that ashokas role was fake than other people (hence less sure on Clidd/Ashoka) because the logic pooky used to justify ashoka's role being very unlikely also made my role very unlikely... which explains the whole no no thing.

I don't get why you're so annoyed Alisae.

I DON'T GET HOW PEOPLE CAN REASONABLY SAY THAT SCUM CAN'T KILL AND THAT ITS BASICALLY A NIGHTLESS GAME THAT WASN'T ADVERTISE AS NIGHTLESS LIKE THATS NOT FUN BUT ITS BEING PASSED OFF AS OKAY BECAUSE ITS BEING MODDED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST POPULAR AND LITERALLY EVERYONE LIKES.

LIKE NO
YOU HAVE TO ADVERTISE ITS NIGHTLESS.
OTHERWISE U JUST /IN TO MODDED A GAME THAT ISN'T FUN TO PLAY FOR ONE SIDE

[Alisae]

I don't get why you are so upset upon finding out the bad guys don't have a gun

I'm kinda happy they don't have a gun lol

THEY HAVE A GUN THATS MY POINT THEY'RE JUST FUCKING INCOMPETENT MONKEYS

[Alisae]

i dont really see what's stopping Ydrasse/Hectic from designing a secret nightless though especially when it goes so well with the finding lost lover sort of theme

REPUTATION?????????????????

the last time I was scum in a hectic game, my role pm said I had a factional nightkill.

that was btw a lie because the game had no nights hahahahahah

...............

[Alisae]

Also their mechanic is basically searching each other out which is cool

COOL
DOES NOT
TRANSLATE TO FUN

YOU CAN DESIGN THINGS THAT ARE "COOL" BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE FUN WHEN THEY PLAY OUT

WHAT THE FUCK

[Alisae]

One shot weak loveriser + 2 town lovers + neighbour/one shot neogjbouriser + FLs scum role + 2 unclaimed town + 5 hood with 2 scum.

Hey Alisae, see why before I realized it had to be nightless I was pissed when you fakeclaimed doc and I kept asking you to make 100% sure because I said I was considering claiming?

Scum is Uncrowned+Menal+ABR. Pick 2.

does my elim order instantly not win us the game?

[Alisae]

Idk what your elim order is, is it tje same as mine as in flip the 3 slots that may include scum?

{Mena, Hopkrik} 1 scum max both are not scum with each other. This was before you claimed btw.
Mena first if Mena scum kill ABR/Uncrowned order doesn't matter and then F3 I'm probably the elim and town loses :/
Mena town means ur probably scum, then the last 2 scum have to be in {uncrowned, ABR} and we have 1 elim to be wrong so we just win no?

[Alisae]

wait who did u target?

[Alisae]

o

[Alisae]

Okay game isn't winnable anymore.
VOTE: Alisae

[Alisae]

I'm done

[Alisae]

it was impossible to win when Mena didn't kill Pooky and its impossible to win when town can clear abr or uncrowned.
GG

[Alisae]

Mena won't concede because he thinks he can actually realistically win if he busses me.
Idunno its impossible to win when you decide to bus in a setup where bussing is good for town and when as soon as town flips me, they look at mena's hood opening and go wait did mena just bus ali?

[Alisae]

Is this you conceding as scum due to my claim?

Ya I'm fully mental boomed now and its impossible for me to win and its impossible for mena to win.

pedit: NO WAY POOKY
WASN'T THAT WHAT I WAS PUSHING MENA FOR DURING D2
WHAT
THATS CRAZY

[Alisae]

If Mena thinks he can actually win this game by himself ya idunno what to say but he also just spent the whole game bussing me

[Alisae]

anyhow so Ydra probably won't accept a concede so ywall need to slow roll it and kill me and mena.

Like I dunno how Mena thinks scum wins this game its so impossible lol

[Alisae]

no one townreads him on my flip
like ever
we have the exact same role and I was pushing him for having the role that I had

[Alisae]

honestly if I knew mena would be my partner from D1, this would have not been the game where I try to break my meta.

Like I'm still super easy to read I think by my meta? There are some aspects of my towngame that are impossible for me to fake that won't show up until mid-late.

[Alisae]

we can't actually take alisae's scum-claim at face value here btw because its optimal for scum to reduce down to 1 member to unlock their nightkill and begin killing the conf-town side.

Alisae is definitely scum but Mena isn't yet.

oh shut up

[Alisae]

i want the game to be over.

[Alisae]

I'm assuming that that's a legit concede.

its impossible for me to actually try to submit a concede.
I can't speak with mena so it won't ever be accepted.

The only way I can express how frustrated I am to actually be scum and how unwinnable it is for me to just say "hey its me"

[Alisae]

Like you can argue that I'm not playing to win but this game was lost when mena didn't submit a pooky kill.

If he submitted a pooky kill the game was very winnable and I would be playing it out but he didn't and then hopkirk can also clear abr or uncrowned.
even if i bus mena shoot hopkirk like maybe but in F3 I'm the one thats always dieing.

pedit: Me and Mena were star crossed lovers.
We knew who FL was and basically we needed to submit a kill on the same person for it to go through.

It was not fun at all I wanted to rand town in this playerlist but I keep getting scum partners that just want to lose like I don't get why Mena decided that he wanted to bus me the whole game.

[Alisae]

I like how they called out their partner signalling to them.

we know who each other are.
We also knew who FL was.
D1 I spent the whole game signalling to FL but he didn't target me and honestly I don't think he noticed it until I fakeclaimed doc

[Alisae]

like I actually just lost it now.
Honestly even if I do kill hopkirk somehow this night phase, I can't win F3 and I don't trust that Mena will actually submit a kill if he didn't submit a kill on Pooky.

pedit: ya ofc I lose F3.

[Alisae]

Yeah I think you lose lategame lelo here, but it's not a guarantee.

If one of you/menal died what happened to the kill?

nothing changes so scum would get to kill regardless. They just don't need to coordinate it.

[Alisae]

like it was so important to submit a kill on Pooky

[Alisae]

like I basically was babyraging 100% of the time in Ydra's pms like
BRO WHY DID MENA BUS

[Alisae]

I don't get it man
Why would you enter a PT with a signal and then bus your exact role like the thought process just doesn't make sense there's no logic behind it.
Why are you bussing when its better for town if you bus and if anyone does any reading inside the hood their eyes go towards Mena who had such a sus opening for the hood that you don't ever not let it endgame

[Alisae]

him wanting to PL FL when FL was doing what he was supposed to be doing is also just so weird.

[Alisae]

and the whole game he spent argueing with me that he's the beter player which makes me fume even more because he believes what he is doing is correct when its not and its impossible for him to win even if everything went right for him.

[Alisae]

So ya I'm sick of getting partners who
- Don't want to roll scum
- Aren't active enough to post as scum
- Actively try to sabotage the team

[Alisae]

I'm so sick of it in a meta where playerlists have players like kanna infinity mt hopkirk who are really good at being town and are impossible to kill if ur playing against them.
the fact we even got an infinity elim as early as we did should have never happened.

[Alisae]

and town is going to look at this game and go "wow, town really outplayed scum in this game" when no like this game was won if scum weren't actively trying to sabotage scum.

[Alisae]

And watch there's going to be that ONE person who is like
"It doesn't matter if its not winnnable ur attitude is what makes it not winnable and its always winnable if you find a way. Never concede!"
like no
shut up holy fuck ur so annoying
no
i never win this game now.

Why should I waste every else's time with a game thats over or try to delude myself into thinking that maybe this game is winnable.

Like Conceding is like folding in Poker. Sometimes you just gotta know when to hold. Why in Poker should you play a bad hand thats practically unwinnable? Why are you playing that out for the sake of playing it out?

[Alisae]

btw do ywall think Mena wins this game if you somehow kill me instead of him?
Anyone think Mena can solo carry this game if I flip before him
anyone?

[Alisae]

no?
no one thinks Mena can solocarry and win F3 if he flips me before him?

Great thats exactly what I thought.

[Alisae]

So this entire time, you've been hard tunnelling Mena and arguing with him every chance you get for that reason

I mean what am I supposed to do? Its the most appropriate response

The subtext for my posts with Mena was literally "Mena can you do literally anything else or fuck off and just do something else?"

[Alisae]

of my d1 was town I was trying to fake what people think my towngame looks like.

except see the difference is in the games I'm town, it makes more sense for me to be town, and in the games that I'm scum, it makes more sense for me to be scum

[Alisae]

its a weird way to explain it but it makes sense.

Like I broke my meta under the impression I was scum with Nahdia.
If I was scum with Mena and he was playing like this I just wouldn't have bothered.

[Alisae]

I mean it got to the poitn where mena clearly wasn't taking the hint and I decided that I wanted him dead and was going to do everything in my power to kill him even if I look like I tmi bussed. I don't care. Thats how angry I was with his play.

[Alisae]

I DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO RAND SCUM
I JUST WNATED TO BE TOWN MAN

[Alisae]

I wanted to be town and pubstomp scum man

[Alisae]

Like you look at these mafia roles and you go "wow these look cool" but its not fun to play. And it becomes less fun to play when if you flip its good for town and ur partners decide they just want to bus and not think about if bussing is actually smart or not

[Alisae]

I DON'T GET IT BUSSING IS SO BAD

[Alisae]

I honestly think Mena was just doing it just to prove a point

[Alisae]

it was really funny when NSG asked if I was doing it out of spite that was really funny btw but the reality is given the way mena was playing its just makes too much sense to bus him because he was scummy early on and if I'm the first one to point it out I get cred for it.
Its funny because the kind of bus I was trying to bus Mena with was the same bus I was going to catch Mena doing in TM2020 and the one that Mena insists I would never catch and the game I still mention because I'm still triggered about the fact I didn't get to be the one in the spotlight declaring that game over against scum.

[Alisae]

tbh i just want to see a game where all of three scum hard TR each other from d1 and just vouch for each other on meta and get suspicious of people doubting their strong townreads. Now that would mess with my heuristics.

I want to get a partner that
- Wants to play scum
- Is active enough to post
- Isn't trying to sabotage their own alignment.

[Alisae]

I haven't gotten a partner since Flopz and in that game koba just kinda lost the game for town by themself.

[Alisae]

like i don't wanna play scum against you guys like fuck

[Alisae]

its actually impossible I mean I was going to win if Pooky died but Mena threw that.

[Alisae]

tbh i just want to see a game where all of three scum hard TR each other from d1 and just vouch for each other on meta and get suspicious of people doubting their strong townreads. Now that would mess with my heuristics.

I want to get a partner that
- Wants to play scum
- Is active enough to post
- Isn't trying to sabotage their own alignment.

i'm not sure it's fair to blame Menal for low activity when they were ill
playing scum must feel really weird

i'm not blaming them for activity and they clearly want to play scum.
Everything they did just felt like they were trying to sabotage their own alignment.

[Alisae]

idunno tho maybe I'm just the problem ig XD

[Alisae]

Maybe I'm just the delusional player, nothing I'm saying makes sense/is flat out wrong, I conceded for no reason, and I'm the gamethrower who threw a perfectly winnable game XD

[Alisae]

idunno guys what do you think?

[Alisae]

ya Flopz was a good partner

[Alisae]

If Pooky dies its

Mena dies
Hopkirk dies
One of ABR/Uncrowned dies
One of {Kanna, Clidd} dies, probably Kanna
the other of {ABR/Uncrowned} dies and that ends the game and I win

[Alisae]

IT WAS SO WINNABLE MAN

[Alisae]

I don't get it

[Alisae]

I don't get it at all man

[Alisae]

why grief
i don't understand

[Alisae]

oh btw hopkirk why does your role exist in an already townsided setup

[Alisae]

Like Ydra really wanted to just fuck over scum ig

[Alisae]

Hopkirk has a role that clears another player

[Alisae]

He gets to basically just deny scum an elim.
I don't think town should have any actual power in a setup like this but maybe that's just me but I also just don't think the setup is fun to play so.........

[Alisae]

ig?

[Alisae]

like ig u have a point

[Alisae]

like ig the setup looks fine and balanced its just a game thats more fun for the mod to watch than it is for the players to play like I think its very likely that if u ask the scum players in this setup if they're having a good time they're likely going to respond with no.
Scum can only truely have fun in the setup when all of the scum are working together and are perfectly in sync.

[Alisae]

btw for n1 I had kanna as a kill but then I changed it to MT, left a hint, and hoped Mena noticed it because I thought if me and Mena were going to distance or bus, it would be better for the both of us if there was no kill on N1.

[Alisae]

honestly it just feels like scum were hindered for no reason

[Alisae]

Like why are me and Mena star crossed lovers?
why is there someone who recruits us to the scum PT?

Why are we putting these things in the game? What makes any of these things fun to play?

[Alisae]

like ur a mod
ur supposed to design a fun game for your players thats fun to play
right?

[Alisae]

i can't believe ali was scum oh my god ALI

broke my powerwolf meta just to lose
why even bother honestly

[Alisae]

watch mena is going to come in here and say that I'm the reason scum lost and it wasn't him at all.

[Alisae]

he's probably going to blame the game on me LOL

[Alisae]

like honestly I really just didn't want to be scum.


I should still be as easy to meta read as I used to be its just as scum now I can play passively and reactively and honestly I probably still suck at scum late game and will be able to be easily figured out in the late game so like honestly like what did this accomplish

[Alisae]

Like why are me and Mena star crossed lovers?
why is there someone who recruits us to the scum PT?

Why are we putting these things in the game? What makes any of these things fun to play?

lets be real this game would've been hella fun if you were scum with me :3

yes, yes it would

[Alisae]

I lost to rand tho

[Alisae]

actually i didn't lose on rand
i lost when mena replaced in ig

[Alisae]

Kanna I think at F3 or F4 when you re-read you just come to the conclusion that I'm scum I don't see any other conclusion that makes sense that you would reach

[Alisae]

honestly I just wanna be town man.
I wanna try to prove that my towngame is the shit and destroy scumteams

[Alisae]

this better not be a troll

you know I don't troll and I concede if its unwinnable kanna u know that.

You will have to do it the hard way tho which is you will probably have to kill me then kill mena the next day. Ydra I don't think will accept a concede and I mental boomed to the point where I'm just doing this

[Alisae]

you don't know how hard i can gamethrow... or at least you kind of know because of dark waltz

I would be very surprised if you reached any other conclusion

[Alisae]

honestly, why can't I replace out as soon as I see my role pm and see that I lost on rand?

[Alisae]

apparently thats reportable I think since you're rejecting a pm based on alignment and therefore am not playing to win

[Alisae]

ya that's also another reason why its not okay.
Luckily its not something I've ever done

[Alisae]

the infamous shoshin clause

KEKW

[Alisae]

sara is really good at scum

I'm really good at scum but apparently I can't win games when I rand the alignment
WeirdChamp

[Alisae]

btw maybe ywall will get to see the pms I sent Ydrasse

[Alisae]

why tf are people shipping anything that isn't kanna and me geez

Ur avatar sucks

[Alisae]

i liked simping for Kanna and trying to go r/niceguys on her when she picked literally anyone else

[Alisae]

also the ego battles with Mena and ABR were kinda funny

[Alisae]

kanna pooky is a good ship ya

[Alisae]

ur old one was just better man

[Alisae]

it was weeby

[Alisae]

I hadn’t conceded but I guess my message to ydrasse was a second too late

Lol how do u win bro

[Alisae]

Uh, I get that alisae is frustrated and everything, but like

Claiming scum with someone else and conceding for them is not something you're allowed to do right?

You're allowed to replace out if you're not enjoying the setup, it would've been sus but it would've been way better than what happened here

This game was winnable for scum I think

NO IT WASNT

[Alisae]

Yeah, sure. Scum concede. Will post stuff later.

I don't like this. I didn't like it in Xenoblade and I don't like it now

I have to say I also didn't like it in Large Normal 230. I don't get why people just don't play the game out, even if it seems hopeless

I understand the reason yes that in some sense you're not delaying the inevitable but

I wanna see the game played out to it's full completion, you never know what will happen

Holy shit ur so annoying what anything could happen? Ya so another free Miselim on a very townie player will just show up for no reason over reading the game and thinking it’s me which is the next reasonable thing to do? Doubt.

If a game is lost its lost and there’s nothing you can do about it. Conceding is like folding in poker. Why would u play out an unwinnable hand?

[Alisae]

it was my favorite part of the setup tho :3

and also why I found Flavor Leaf's claim super unbelievable lol

I disagree it’s scumsided without their role, I think their role makes it go from slightly townsided to strongly townsided

Ya why are we townsiding setups in a meta where towns are strong btw?

[Alisae]

I hadn’t conceded but I guess my message to ydrasse was a second too late

Lol how do u win bro

Idk but not by conceding

I was never planning to endgame anyway, I was expecting you to, but even once you torpedoed that I still wasn’t just gonna give up

why did u bus again? Completely different game if u didn’t and u killed Pooky.

[Alisae]

I actually worry what happens to the site if u don’t allow scum to concede.

Pedit: nah I had nowhere to go. I don’t think I can reasonably convince any of those players to vote MT or Clidd.

[Alisae]

I wasn’t bussing which is why this game went so wrong because you didn’t understand that

YES YOU WERE WHAT

[Alisae]

killing pooky essentially changes nothing Alisae, what are you talking about? the only impact of killing pooky means that lelo is (you/MT/Clidd/Kanna) instead of (you/the two of those you don't choose to nightkill right before that)

If pooky doesn’t die I have to miselim an extra player that I shouldn’t have to mis elim.

[Alisae]

I have nowhere to go

[Alisae]

given my record i am reticent to ever even speak about scum strategy but it did seem to me that even yesterday alisae your play was driven by some kind of spite

frankly i'm astounded that immediately on day three people didn't suspect you given the whole mafia pt thing (although it's possible i missed this, i didn't read the newest day very closely). i was speaking completely truthfully when i said that the amount of evidence available didn't really warrant the theory.

Mena started it by having a weird read on me.
If he just TR’d me I try to tr him and I don’t need to bus

[Alisae]

Yeah, sure. Scum concede. Will post stuff later.

I don't like this. I didn't like it in Xenoblade and I don't like it now

I have to say I also didn't like it in Large Normal 230. I don't get why people just don't play the game out, even if it seems hopeless

I understand the reason yes that in some sense you're not delaying the inevitable but

I wanna see the game played out to it's full completion, you never know what will happen

Holy shit ur so annoying what anything could happen? Ya so another free Miselim on a very townie player will just show up for no reason over reading the game and thinking it’s me which is the next reasonable thing to do? Doubt.

If a game is lost its lost and there’s nothing you can do about it. Conceding is like folding in poker. Why would u play out an unwinnable hand?

Because a game needs to finish to completion and you're selling yourself short. Were you in a literal auto-lose? Probably not. Were you just uncertain that you could convince anyone? Uncertain of your partner? Don't take that experience away from yourself. Nobody wants a consolation prize, and I certainly want the chance to either see all the scum flipped or make a mistake. You basically decided the outcome for everyone.

I was in an auto loss I can’t convince anyone to vote town in F4.

Pedit: clidd votes me over mt and mt votes me over clidd. I don’t see how that doesn’t happen in f3 and just cuz kanna townreads me hard doesn’t mean that she can’t figure out it’s me cuz I’m pretty sure she can

[Alisae]

given my record i am reticent to ever even speak about scum strategy but it did seem to me that even yesterday alisae your play was driven by some kind of spite

frankly i'm astounded that immediately on day three people didn't suspect you given the whole mafia pt thing (although it's possible i missed this, i didn't read the newest day very closely). i was speaking completely truthfully when i said that the amount of evidence available didn't really warrant the theory.

Mena started it by having a weird read on me.
If he just TR’d me I try to tr him and I don’t need to bus

you escalated a play that you didn't agree with into

essentially

giving yourself and your team's secrets away. i can't really support you given that.

in the absolute worst case scenario—and not to imply that i support this, but i still have to mention it—you could've just tactically replaced out like flavor leaf did. it wasn't

necessary

to drag your team down with you.

honestly Idunno what u wanted me to do it seems like a lost cause regardless.
If I rep out then someone else has to deal with that mess it doesn’t change the outcome.
Why would u give a doomed slot to another player? I don’t get that and it’s just not something I feel good about.

[Alisae]

I don’t know why Mena just didn’t question me being town. We were i a good position on night 1. He spent the whole game making it easier for town to elim scum when you shouldn’t be doing that.

[Alisae]

Its always just a lose lose situation for me I think.
Pedit why would anyone want to replace into a slot to find out it’s doomed? How is that fun?

[Alisae]

Like great u replace in and find out that u can’t win due to things that were out of ur control
Why play that out? I don’t get it.

[Alisae]

If there is a will, there's a way.

Ya I’m sure u can just will the other townie slots that make no sense for them to be scum to vote each other in F4 yep totally.

[Alisae]

Hey Alisae how would you have felt if you were scum in this game HEctic just modded:

7 town, 6 scum (13p)
if scum and lethaled d1 scum lose. two votes before first night (bussing looses the game)
assuming no scum lethal in the two d1 votes scum must pick 4 of the scum to kill (leaving 2 scum, 5 town)
next day people can form 2 pairs of dancers who are immune to the nightkill and there's a lethal. so if town all dance together scum may be forced to self-kill, and scum can't guarantee a kill on someone they want here
then continues with a nightly kill at (4-1 or 3-2)

Sounds like a game I wouldn’t want to play

[Alisae]

If there is a will, there's a way.

Ya I’m sure u can just will the other townie slots that make no sense for them to be scum to vote each other in F4 yep totally.

That's from your view! You don't know what people are thinking. Trust me

Its an objective view cuz one of the players is a mason, the other was neighbors with scum and also a 1 shot neighbor who gets cleared off of a scum flip, and the last townie is very apparent in her townmeta and it makes 0 sense for them to be scum over me.

[Alisae]

Its always just a lose lose situation for me I think.
Pedit why would anyone want to replace into a slot to find out it’s doomed? How is that fun?

I would've been PUMPED personally like 'fuck yeah this is gonna be a challenge'

Is the idea of Fun only winning?

its having the chance to win. In doomed slots the illusion of that exists but that doesn’t mean it’s real it’s just an illusion.

[Alisae]

If there is a will, there's a way.

Ya I’m sure u can just will the other townie slots that make no sense for them to be scum to vote each other in F4 yep totally.

It's really easy to think you're in a worse position than you are as scum. I was so so confident you were town from the dead thread, and you know better than anyone how to win games despite seeming like you're obvious scum.

Yes I know how to win games
And here I am
Saying the game isn’t winnable

[Alisae]

which is that of conceding against your partner's wishes and—in a sense—playing out of spite and against your win condition.

Oh so it doesn’t matter if the game was actually unwinnable?

Also I still think bussing Mena is correct.

[Alisae]

The game was entirely winnable even if there’s disagreement on the extent of that and given that it was conceding and claiming scum with me was totally unacceptable

How do u win?

[Alisae]

You still didn’t answer me on why u bussed?

[Alisae]

The game was entirely winnable even if there’s disagreement on the extent of that and given that it was conceding and claiming scum with me was totally unacceptable

How do u win?

getting the person who TR you (Kanna) to vote MT over you. Kanna isn't infallible and isn't sure in retrospect (citation needed)

Kanna thinks it coulda happened but I doubt it. She just reads and sees that I make the most sense to be scum.
How does Mena win?

[Alisae]

which is that of conceding against your partner's wishes and—in a sense—playing out of spite and against your win condition.

Oh so it doesn’t matter if the game was actually unwinnable?

No, it actually doesn't, at least for any non-literal definition of "unwinnable".

Then Idunno what to tell you tbh.

[Alisae]

The points being made here were never towards alisae frankly

It's all environment-based, (Mafia) games shouldn't invite a culture where your best option is to simply not play

In poker you shouldn’t be able to fold
In League you shouldn’t be able to concede.

I don’t see how that makes sense Idunno tho.

[Alisae]

The game was entirely winnable even if there’s disagreement on the extent of that and given that it was conceding and claiming scum with me was totally unacceptable

How do u win?

getting the person who TR you (Kanna) to vote MT over you. Kanna isn't infallible and isn't sure in retrospect (citation needed)

Kanna thinks it coulda happened but I doubt it. She just reads and sees that I make the most sense to be scum.
How does Mena win?

Menal never survives today. It's only you who can carry it to a win there. I can see your point, but I think if it's a generally held position then it's not good for the site tbh. Like if you enjoy town then how would it affect your experience if scumteams frequently conceded when they thought they were very likely to lose on d3 and games frequently ended before lategame?

I would be happy personally, unless scum had a chance to win. That chance doesn’t exist here.

[Alisae]

HEY ALISAE

GOOD JOB WELL PLAYED

Ty

[Alisae]

This was a really tough PL to roll scum against, that’s for sure

Another reason why I didn’t want to be scum.

[Alisae]

This was a really tough PL to roll scum against, that’s for sure

It was actually a very scary scumteam rand though, in theory.

And its not good enough vs this pl

[Alisae]

This was a really tough PL to roll scum against, that’s for sure

It was actually a very scary scumteam rand though, in theory.

Yeah I mean I was pretty excited when I saw the scumteam and then ali just didn’t read my actions the way I wanted er to and plus the whole getting covid thing kinda bummed out my D2

How did u want me to respond?

[Alisae]

Ali if you were town right

Like let's say the situation is slightly flipped

You're down a good amount and it's Xylo

You wouldn't give up right? You'd wanna try and win?

Why is it different for scum? I'm genuinely curious

whats the context lol?

[Alisae]

I'd imagine that in league of legends it takes your team agreeing to concede, one person can't just concede for their entire team.

People hold people hostage constantly in league, even in the most unwinnable situations and situations where teammates are griefing

[Alisae]

Context being that I feel like you wouldn't have conceded if you were town?

What happened in the game how did we get there?

[Alisae]

I have to defend alisae because I think that the scum wincon was entirely on his shoulders since menal was almost guaranteed to be flipped with all of me, MT, Hopkirk, etc. all suspecting him. Playing it out would just be kabuke theater at that point if alisae had given up.

Conversely I feel like alisae played the best scum game out of everyone.

You mean this?
I mean I’m glad u agreed with me and like i was the player on the team that was playing the best.
Doesn’t change the fact people think I should play out the game.

But yes the setup is townsided tbh.
I don’t get why we’re townsiding setups in a meta where towns are way stronger than scum

[Alisae]

This playerlist is great ya.
Just randing scum in it was a lost cause.

[Alisae]

This was a really tough PL to roll scum against, that’s for sure

It was actually a very scary scumteam rand though, in theory.

Yeah I mean I was pretty excited when I saw the scumteam and then ali just didn’t read my actions the way I wanted er to and plus the whole getting covid thing kinda bummed out my D2

How did u want me to respond?

I already said, I was expecting us to conflict for a while and then to leverage that as a reason to TR you

But when I started trying to do that (the points where I said very explicitly that I wasn’t lockscum on you/when MT asked me and I said that I wasn’t sure who the scum in the townbloc was) you just kept pressuring me non-stop and I couldn’t get it to a point where I was TRing you

So I decided to just double down on the distancing despite the TMI stuff you’d said and hope that town would miss that or that you’d spin it out right

my bad then.

[Alisae]

Ig I played that badly mena.

[Alisae]

Yes I mean it Alisae!

Playing with u is fun even when things get toxic xD

[Alisae]

I felt like town was too strong this game since as early as day 2 opening.

With players like MT, kanna, me, clidd, pooky, hopkirk, Uncrowned, this is a full stack S tier final boss town that is impossible to beat lol

Town always wins this pl
Any of me Nahdia and fl being town in exchange for one of those still means town win.

[Alisae]

Nightclub pt woooot

[Alisae]

Ya ty for the game ydra the flavor was nice.

[Alisae]

ya mena mybad i played out interactions wrong ig

[Alisae]

this playerlist was the only reason I joined

[Alisae]

Nahdia ur great

[Alisae]

Sorry ydra
From a modding POV this sucks

[Alisae]

Fwiw ydra u modded well

[Alisae]

Meh
Honestly maybe I did over react.

Sorry ydra for being shit ig.

[Alisae]

I had no idea who e was targeting N2 I’m really really really really bad at spotting crumbs and honestly just needed openwolfing levels of obviousness to know who we were meant to be killing

i posted it at end of day.

[Alisae]

if u didn't see it ig that's my bad then honestly.

[Alisae]

Nah I mean tbf I am uniquely bad at noticing crumbs

me 2 its ok

[Alisae]

i went on a walk and had a change of heart
i was shit sorry

[Alisae]

btw mena the trash talk was fun