Mini Normal 2190 | Baby Animals | Game Over

[geraintm]

Oh dear. 3 pages in before I even say hello. 22 minutes past midnight here...
Will vote next time.

[geraintm]

> Night actions must be submitted via PM or, if applicable, inside a factional private topic.

@mod are we allowed to submit night actions in personal private topics if we aren't scum?

Yes that is allowed

VOTE: minimegabyte

[geraintm]

awkward, that's never happened to me before.....

[geraintm]

I would like to see some more input from some of the slots that have like 1 post and all they’ve said is hi.

UNVOTE:
yeah, me too....wait i think you mean me.
some people i've not played with before in this game taking up a high percentage of posts but it aint helping me get anywhere with the game

[geraintm]

cook can get yeeted but i'm interested why he's in jim's townreads when that's literally the only mention of cook in his entire iso

Yeah, sorry. I just don't see the case against cook. Feel free to change my mind

there is never a case day 1. to come up with an actual correct case on scum day 1 takes an exceptionally bad scum player.
all logic based wagons day 1 are bunkum, either powered by bad town or members of the mafia

[geraintm]

all logic based wagons day 1 are bunkum, either powered by bad town or members of the mafia

Do you think the wagon on Cook was powered by bad town or mafia?

I dont know. How am I meant to know that yet?

[geraintm]

I wasn't asking you for certainties, mate- was merely enquiring if you had a gut feel one way or the other

Nope, not gut feeling.

[geraintm]

I read overnight, see wagons come and go. are they there to put pressure on people or something, because if you don't give the target time to actually reply and move elsewhere is just weird....

[geraintm]

I read overnight, see wagons come and go. are they there to put pressure on people or something, because if you don't give the target time to actually reply and move elsewhere is just weird....

Which wagons were ineffective to you?

townlean Jim for the against the grain read on Cook

everyone actively vocal feels null or better tbh

VOTE: Polaris

VOTE: polaris

VOTE: Polaris

E-3

[geraintm]

Jim very clearly said he couldn't see Cook as scum, but was open to hearing peoples cases. I think people realised they couldn't form a convincing case on Cook based on his unorthodox posting style. They noticed Jim wasn't buying into the potential mislim and scum didn't like people coming up with their own thoughts and opinions. The fact that the very next wagon was on Jim doesn't seem like just a coincidence to me.

DkKoba comes in drunk and places a vote for Polaris, says they want to elim Polaris the most out of everyone, then 5 posts later votes Jim without any explanation. No more than half an hour after, Jim is at -3.

What I don't get is why Cook decided to get on the Jim wagon after Jim was seemingly the only one to disagree with the Cook wagon.
The subsequent Jim vote on Cook seems very OMGUS.

I kinda want to keep who I think are the suspicious actors to myself for the time being.

see, when I said this, that the wagons were worthless, I got asked what I meant. I like someone else actually went through and explained it better than I did

[geraintm]

I see no reason to eliminate dkkoba today. There will be enough in their posts to sort them later.

[geraintm]

I read Flea's recap and I want to vote for them because if they are going to post like that the rest of the game, I am not going to get anywhere with them

[geraintm]

For what it’s worth I think geraintm is saying more than usual. If that’s coming from Town or not I don’t know.

really?

hmmm...

VOTE: Geraintm
Hi.

Hello there
bit rude though

For what it’s worth I think geraintm is saying more than usual.

In my one prior game with him (here) he posted about 5x as much as here within the first 600 posts so I find that kinda surprising.

yeah, this feels more right

someone asked for reads.
I don't really have much.
Flea I have no idea what they are on about
DKKoba is talking so much they shouldn't get eliminated today.


Dislike RLotus for this vote

townlean Jim for the against the grain read on Cook

everyone actively vocal feels null or better tbh

VOTE: Polaris

and even more so this from Cook

VOTE: Polaris

E-3

and this stinks from Andreas

VOTE: Polaris
there is scum in there somewhere would be my guess, strongest guess I have

and then this happens

wait so we're voting jim now?

VOTE: Jim

VC?

VOTE: Jim I dig

VOTE: Jim

so, I am basically picking someone at semi-random from these votes and will VOTE: Andresvmb
Sure, why not.

[geraintm]

ooh, quotes went wrong there but VOTE: andresvmb

[geraintm]

Picking someone at semi-random implies theres something else driving you. Care to elaborate?

There were like 4 possible people to pick from, I think 2 appeared twice, I went with one of the ones who appeared in both thr weird series of posts (who wasn't dkkoba). That was how semi random it was

[geraintm]

666 from geraintm pings me VOTE: veraintm

Care to explain what pings you?
I went back over one of the few things in day 1 that I noticed and after looking at it, came up with someone I wanted to vote for. What pings you abojtbthat?

[geraintm]

Null-town so far but I'm hoping to see more.

this is as good as it gets day 1 from me.

[geraintm]

Deadline soon and I don't want to end the day on a noelim.

strong disagree

[geraintm]

I don’t know why Cook is piling onto my slot, since I haven’t really contributed after voting for Jim and signaling that there was Scum between the two. Can’t say I love that vote.

I need to sleep, unfortunately. I’ll be around tomorrow since it’s finally the weekend and I don’t have to work.

did you mind my vote for you?

[geraintm]

I don’t know why Cook is piling onto my slot, since I haven’t really contributed after voting for Jim and signaling that there was Scum between the two. Can’t say I love that vote.

I need to sleep, unfortunately. I’ll be around tomorrow since it’s finally the weekend and I don’t have to work.

did you mind my vote for you?

Not sure I get what you’re trying to get at with this. I haven’t made myself obvious, so I don’t expect everybody to read me properly. I have yet to be executed early around here, so maybe I’m due? Now, if you’re asking me whether care about getting votes, I care. Being mis-executed is never a good feeling. But somebody has to get executed, so I don’t take it personally.

The reason why I asked if you minded my vote was because you posted you didn't like cook's vote, but made no mention of mine

[geraintm]

Honestly, I agree with Andres reads. From what I can tell, Cook is at E-2, and I am okay with this. But, I am also on-board for a geraintm lynch. They have posted almost no content. SOMEHOW couldn't come up with reads on anyone by post 666:

someone asked for reads.
I don't really have much.
Flea I have no idea what they are on about
DKKoba is talking so much they shouldn't get eliminated today.

Not understanding what someone is saying isn't a read. Thinking someone is saying too much also isn't a read.
And then they admitted in post 735 that quoting without analyzing and lurking around was as good as it's going to get.

Null-town so far but I'm hoping to see more.

this is as good as it gets day 1 from me.

You may want to change up your Day 1 playing style. VOTE: geraintm

Nah, I'm happy with the way indo day 1s. As little damage as possible, nothing stupid like fake claims, spouting 100% certainty someone is town or scum, things like that. I hate day 1s, as there is literally nothing factual to go on. Later in the game it gets better as we have the evidence of votes and eliminations and some players becoming more informed.
The only reason I have a vote on now is because the 2 sets of "randlm" quick votes pinged me so hard and someone was on both. Normally day 2 I start looking at the position of people on wagons , trying to work outbwho was scummy. But for once votes looked bad enough that I thought the chances they are scum were high enough to place a vote.

[geraintm]

Lets start getting something substantive on you.

Give me your hottest take and why.
I also want you coldest take and why.

Who is this directed at?

If me: hottest take is we should not eliminate anyone today.
Coldest...no idea

[geraintm]

@cook
The problem with the entire post you've made is the assumptions on odds on hitting scum/town
Scum can drive wagons away from scum. The odds aren't 3/13, but way less than that. Has anyone ever actually done a study on day 1 scum eliminations in games? My guess would be 5%.
So why throw away a town slot day 1 for free?

[geraintm]

VOTE: polaris

VOTE: jim

I see no reason to eliminate dkkoba today. There will be enough in their posts to sort them later.

Yet you said this about them. So the reasoning behind your vote on me is completely contrived. Alright good to know.

I am pretty sure I said I dont want to eliminate dkkova today because there was so many posts others will be able to solve them later. I said when I voted you it was semi random. And since I placed it, not seen a reason to move it

[geraintm]

Andres, you said Geraint was scum because he was lurking and did not have content. What's different between here and Innocent?

No that wasn’t me. That was Jim. geraintm has crap logic for voting me, and they know better. They made this point that’s just not true about how I made two quick votes on two wagons and that made me look bad, while also saying they wouldn’t touch Koba. And Koba did the exact same thing. It was nonsense.

I feel like you are incorrectly stating what I posted or else missing what I said.
There were a couple of quick wagons one night that didn't go anywhere, didn't even allow pressure to build on some of the people involved.
I looked at who was on these wagons and took names.
I normally look at votes and where they are on them to try and work out who I thibk is scum. I normally wait until day 2.of games when I have some info on the alignment of players.
But this game I did it day 1 for once (I dont like being useless day 1, so if I can help town out ill try).
I believe 2 people were on both wagons, and people on 2 bad wagons raise my senses.
You were one, dkkoba was the other.

But I had already said in the game that I had no interest in voting dkkoba today. They simply were posting so much that players would be able to sort them at a later stage.

This meant I voted for you. My random vote was on the mod, so I needed to have an actual vote, and you were the person who had made me sit up and notice the most.

You keep throwing out that I picked you and didn't vote dkkoba for doing the exact same thing. That is correct, but I have explained why but you seem to be skipping over that in every post of yours that is trying to push others to vote for me.
So stop doing it.

[geraintm]

They said my vote for Polaris “stunk”, while also calling their vote amongst four choices semi-random. And they had a play style complaint about Flea if I recall correctly while saying they would vote there because they didn’t expect to ever get along.

Yeah, it’s not strong evidence. But nothing with geraintm is ever going to be either.

This is in reference to their post 586. Their recap, which I couldn't make head or tail of. I said I want to vote for them, but I meant it in "if I have to suffer posts like that which make my head hurt, I'd rather not have to"

But I don't reallynhnderstand why this one comment makes you want to push me as the elimination so much

[geraintm]

Thats a hammer.
If town, cook you wanna chip in with thoughts?

[geraintm]

hello all

[geraintm]

so, all i spent the night thinking was about what the counter wagon was at the end of the day because there must have been an effort by scum to try and save Cook.
and i am almost certainly being myopic about it, but the only one i can recall was Andres' trying to push me.
i don't think i have any reason to not start today the same way i ended yesterday

VOTE: andres

[geraintm]

VOTE: gerain hardclaim mason with zuko lets go

did you not investigate me overnight? i assumed you were from your post yesterday, and so i know if you had you wouldnt be voting for me.

[geraintm]

oh, well that makes thinks interesting Nopoint

[geraintm]

so we eliminate within Nopoint and Dkkoba then, there isn't anything else to do today?

[geraintm]

i say every game that people being too smart is the ruin of most people

[geraintm]

i'm off to play Crusader Kingdoms for a while, i'm just going to let you all clear up this shit show...

[geraintm]

I mean I’ll say, geraintm is like always Scum. Stepping away after this? Voting me coming into today? Can we flip that too?

im not sure why you are so shocked I voted for you at the start of today (before all the mason claims came in).
I was voting for you at the end of day 1. I said in my post that I felt you were trying discredit me with your posts in day 1, so in my head I am sitting there going "were there any attemts at counterwagons to cook yesterday and I ony noticed one from you towards me".
so why wouldn't I continue to vote for you when I entered day 2? nothing had changed for me.
but do this now as voting for you is def not the right thing to be doing
UNVOTE:

[geraintm]

i'm off to play Crusader Kingdoms for a while, i'm just going to let you all clear up this shit show...

Dude no what are you doing, pls stay

I was fairly sure I wasn't going to add anything meaningful to the conversation between Dkkoba and everyone else, they needed to talk themselves out

Do u think i as scum do something like that on d2 after losing a partner?

Do u think i as scun dont get cook to claim a pr?

This I can believe. I just seem as dkkoba as way too overclever, but having scum trying this and raising their profile to this level of ridiculousness just seems not believable to me. I am going to read dkkoba as town for the time being but hope someone else can solve them properly before the end of the game.
because I have made this choice about my read on dkkoba, the next X pages are just mostly irrelevant because they are very very unlikely to change my mind.
this does not mean I trust their reads in anyway though.

I mean I’ll say, geraintm is like always Scum. Stepping away after this? Voting me coming into today? Can we flip that too?

you really don't like me do you (in mafia terms). I am not sure there is anything I can do in this game that would change your opinion on me. like, because I don't give this game my 100% focus (when the shitstorm isn't anything to do with me) you hold that against me and want to use as a reason to vote for me?

Why would you be concerned about my slot? You’re like planning to align yourself with geraintm who refused to vote Cook and insisted on staying on me? Why?

don't single out cook as someone I wouldn't vote for. day 1, I will not vote for anyone 98% of the time....

up to around 1135 and one reason why I think so many people are bad at this game so often is all these people sitting there going "oh, we should flip Geraint as he is likely scum" and as I know my alignment I just roll my eyes and go "oh no, not again..."

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=12531269#p12531269]Given that you will be lynched today dkKoba, what read would you leave behind? Tell me who scum is[/quote]

they deserve to be eliminated, but I don't think they should be

Lets start getting something substantive on you.

Give me your hottest take and why.
I also want you coldest take and why.

Who is this directed at?

If me: hottest take is we should not eliminate anyone today.
Coldest...no idea

@cook
The problem with the entire post you've made is the assumptions on odds on hitting scum/town
Scum can drive wagons away from scum. The odds aren't 3/13, but way less than that. Has anyone ever actually done a study on day 1 scum eliminations in games? My guess would be 5%.
So why throw away a town slot day 1 for free?

I also think this is objectively terrible.

well, I agree it looks terrible

now...

[geraintm]

just realised there was an error in my quoting. I tried to reply to someone (I think it was nopoint) saying dkkoba will be eliminated today by saying I think they should be (anyone who fake claims so hard should be eliminated) but I think they are town so I don't think that it would be a good idea - they can be solved later on now they have such a huge target on them.

[geraintm]

I don't have much to add. I am basically waiting for everyone else to work out what they want to do with dkkoba, and if the concensus is pass then to look properly elsewhere

[geraintm]

i don't think locknull is a thing and it's definitely not desirable to be locknull as any alignment

I know I am town. So I am happy right now if people put me in a box like that where I won't cause any trouble. I will just be happier to contribute more once people decide to move on from dkkoba or not

I do realise that my playtime isn't very helpful

[geraintm]

@Flea - i'm not sure what you expect of me. you spent a huge long post that basically said "dkkoba did a scummy thing, but i'm basically going to give them the benefit of the doubt" which is what I did in two lines.
I could have written a huge long post like you, but frankly it would have been a waste of time and I covered it in my post 1231.
you also earlier called me out for being half arsed...in the same post you admitted you have flaked on the game.

so yeah. pot kettle cup of tea or something...

[geraintm]

, while you're content to actively coast.

yep, and I've explained this. do least harm if you cannot advance the game state, let those who can...do.
I know that eliminating me won't help town, so why raise my head over the parapet and get shot like say...dkkoba did. games would be much easier for town if no one lied and just did the boring things and let scum have to be weird and justify their awful actions.

[geraintm]

VOTE: geriantm

how about my vote's on you until you give a few reads.

Reads you say....

I know I am an easy elimination, dkkoba was too. People voting these 2 slots are suspicious in my book....

[geraintm]

Just checking in before bed.
Awkward replacement.
But am I right in thinking people think dkkoba is scum, and me, whose only real opinion is dkkoba is not scum and planted that flag, we are the two remaining scum? In what universe would that play make any sense?

[geraintm]

Will get round to looking at the votes some other time

[geraintm]

Like, it would have been so easy for me to jump on and vote dkkoba. It literally would have taken no effort. The only way I wouldn't do that is if we are both scum, and does anyone buy that we have planned this like this?

[geraintm]

I wouldn't have done that if I was scum was if we were both scum

Meant to write the previous post that way

[geraintm]

@Facebones that is stretching beyond belief if you are really thinking that because I've assumed there are 3 scum in the game I must have inside knowledge.
I go into every game assuming there are 3 scum and will do until I see a 4th dead mafia member.

[geraintm]

Gamma/DK is at L-2, but still, I agree that we should hold off on hammering until we hear from them first.

Odd, though... assuming two scum remain, this would be an easy target for them to wagon on, unless they are both already voting Gamma/Dk, or Gamma/Dk is one of them and the other doesn't want to bus their partner.
The town seems torn between Gamma/Dk and gerain, both of whom are, oddly, not voting at all for either case. I really think we might be on the right track here.

Me not voting really doesn't mean anything.
I'll get round to looking at peoples votes on Monday I believe, not today

[geraintm]

very self-centered I know, but does anyone see me as scum?

[geraintm]

Potentially yes.

I have suspicions on setup which I need to confirm via normal rulesets - its rare I play normals.

I just can't work out how people could see me as scum when I was so against eliminating dkkoba is all

[geraintm]

hectic right now, will get back to the votes properly later

[geraintm]

Potentially yes.

I have suspicions on setup which I need to confirm via normal rulesets - its rare I play normals.

I just can't work out how people could see me as scum when I was so against eliminating dkkoba is all

at worst this is a tmi coming from frustrated!scum who is upset that trying to avoid a wagon they knew was town for towncred didn't have the intended effect

i feel like after the momentum we got from d1 town has gotten cocky and we really jumped the shark on koba

You think? Killijg dkkoba was terrible and was obvious at the time. Their play sucked, but killing them then was not the right thing to do and that wagon was way too easy.

[geraintm]

Ok, looking at the a bunch of the votes, this is where I am at

Andres – early onto Jim Hawkins, late onto Cook
Then day 2 Dkkoba

Facebones – was on Egix day 1, Dkkoba day 2

Nopoint – cook all the way through day 1 except a brief move to dkkoba, and dkkoba day 2

Bugspray – day 1 was on jim Hawkins, andres and me, day 2 dkkoba

Jim Hawkins – solidly cook day 1, dkkoba day 2. Similar to nopoint

Rlotus – waffled day 1 but came to cook, stepped off to dkkoba and then back to cook. Day 2 was dkkoba

Egis – day 1 ws npoint and andres, day 2 was me

Flea – mostly cook day 1, a vote for me and a blank
Voted me day 2

Things which stood out.

No Point I would have as Town even without the claim. Was onto Cook too early and never let up. I cannot see them as scum playing the long game
Jim Hawkins is the same.
I can’t see me voting either of these any time soon.

No one really voted prince zuko or tris either day, they were out of the blue really and on no ones obvious radars.

Flea I am leaning mostly town – early onto cook, didn’t vote the easy dkkoba day 2 (I think scum would hop onto the dkkoba wagon on day 2 because it was so simple to do so)

Andres/Rlotus – these are the two who came onto the cook wagon lateish and normally that would be sus to me.
But andres has the mason claim.

Rlotus looks…bad. Onto cook after earlier votes for facebones and flea, and trys to get off cook to dkkoba before going back. Looks worst so far as the prototypical scum who couldn’t not vote for their partner

Facebones & Bugspray were both nowhere near the Cook wagon day 1 and on the dkkoba day 2. To me, this is prototypical scum “not voting for partner, settle for the easy elimination day 2”
These go in the lean scum pile.

Egix I have a step down from these 2, as wasn’t on the DKkoba wagon

So roughly in order from towniest to scummiest

NoPoint
Andres
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Hawkins
Flea
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Egix
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Facebones
Bugspray
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RLOtus

So I intend to vote for Rlotus after I go back and look at their actual posts and not just votes.

[geraintm]

But andres has the mason claim.

Nopoint claimed Mason, not me. I do not have that Claim.

no im VT and i tried to get nightkilled

But you just hardclaimed it going into today and outted the other pair... sigh.

i read this and when you said pair i believed you meant two people, with one of them yourself.
my read on you now is much, much worse.

[geraintm]

Facebones & Bugspray were both nowhere near the Cook wagon day 1

I pressured cook early a ton early and created most of that wagon's early momentum but decided to put my vote elsewhere later because I wanted to gather more info, this is really disenginuous

I check votes. actual actions > non-actions

[geraintm]

Considering who is left, here are my updated reads:

Town Vibes: nopointinactingup, Andresvmb, bugspray
Nullish Vibes: Flea The Magician, Egix96
Scum Vibes: geraintm, Facebones, RLotus

Out of the scum, I would rather vote geraintm and then Facebones.

i'm curious. what makes you think I am scummy? how does my interaction with the elimination yesterday strengthen your scum reading?

[geraintm]

VOTE: Facebones

if this is from town, then this and dkkoba's claim yesterday are just the dumbest things going. why would town do such stupid things??

[geraintm]

Ok, looking at the a bunch of the votes, this is where I am at

Andres – early onto Jim Hawkins, late onto Cook
Then day 2 Dkkoba

Andres/Rlotus – these are the two who came onto the cook wagon lateish and normally that would be sus to me.

But andres has the mason claim.

so, andres looks much worse than i initially had. i just totally misread how no points claim went down, I thought there were 3 masons (I have it in the spreadsheet I have tracking votes a ittle <- MASON next to andres' name and everything)
without them being a mason, they just get left with me thinking they looked bad day 1, happy to eliminate the each slot on day 2 and now day 3 the whole "i'm obviously town and how dare anyone think otherwise...." I just don't get.

but, I am not going to have them as high as rlotus from looking at the votes

[geraintm]

so, andres looks much worse than i initially had.

I am trying to help you here - you’re wasting your time. I’m not Scum and you’re looking in the wrong place. Being so stubborn about it is not a good look for you.

Being so stubborn in "I'm town and ya'll need to get over it " isn't helping

[geraintm]

Like geraintm let’s get real. You’ve basically tunneled me 3 days in a row. You’ve barely looked past me, only to shade a slot in Lotus that I’ve for the most part TR’ed but I can see why you might suspect them. Like it’s not out of the question, but I also don’t think they’re the most likely person to strike Scum here.

I dont understand why you can say I scum read lotus is understandable to you....but me reading you as scum for effectively the same thing is bad??

[geraintm]

I am not sure what my incredibly scummy behaviour is. Not voting day 1 is what I do every game. And then saying the eventual elimination target on day 2 shouldn't be eliminated because they aren't scum...and them not being scum. That appears to be it as far as I can aee

[geraintm]

ooh, quotes went wrong there but VOTE: andresvmb

Like right here? What are you talking about?

you're right, i did have a vote day 1. i totally forgot. sorry.
it wasn't intentional, there is no reason to have lied about something public like this.

[geraintm]

I'm sorry for no content today. Work was very very busy and no chance of doing anything.
I'm going to flip green if you keep pushing. I am an easy push because of reasons, I know this and sorry I havent done more today to look elsewhere

[geraintm]

a quick post, hopefully more later.
can someone who wants to vote for me explain how a scum version me wouldn't have voted for Dkkoba yesterday?

[geraintm]

Facebones- do you have any good reason why you shouldn't be eliminated today?

[geraintm]

Well, that worked out great for scum me then....

[geraintm]

so, I've tried lookingat today's votes on the people I am most suspicious of
RLotus
Andres
Bugspray
Facebones

Rlotus - holding bac and back and back and then votes for me
Andres - facebones, me and then back to facebones
Bugspray - always facebones
facebones - voting for buspray

I kinda want to vote for everyone. I think the interactions between them all is interesting for sure.

so the case from me is
Rlotus - tried not to vote for cook but did, voted dkkoba (town) and now me (town)
andres - late on cook, voted dkkoka (town) and then facebones and doesn't like me (town)
bugspray - avoided Cook, then dkkoka (town) and today facebones
facebones - avoided cook, then dkkoba (town) and today bugspray

I'm going to be honest and say it is rlotus I think is worst. VOTE: Rlotus

[geraintm]

As I know I am town and I would vote favebones over my elimination too

[geraintm]

If I get put to 1 away from elimination I will vote for favebones rather than let andres vote for me

[geraintm]

If I get put to 1 away from elimination I will vote for favebones rather than let andres vote for me

[geraintm]

Geraintm, you settle the fuck down, mate.

that's a bit saucy....

I aim to do all I can to help town win. sometimes that is by not voting for people when I think it is a bad idea. sometimes it is voting for people I think are scum. sometimes it is voting for someone else when I know the target of a different wagon is 100% town.

[geraintm]

VOTE: facebones
No one else is going to get eliminated today and I reckon 40% chance this hits

[geraintm]

i haven't had any fruit the whole game

[geraintm]

Can someone please explain the importance and/or relevance of the fruit? I looked it up, but am still confused as to its purpose...

It is pretty much just so that the fruit vendor can confirm himself.

yeah. and i think it was pretty obvious i never got anything from them

[geraintm]

Claiming fruit doesn't do much for anyone at this point.

Vote vomit will be incoming. I'm still on my votes from the previous working outs.
VOTE: Gerain

im town
please...just how does scum me not vote so much earlier last day (why would scum have let it get to the point where it was a 50/50 shot between me and a townie) or dkkoba previously. i can't see how it would make any sense.
you need to explain that, and "town cred" isn't enough

[geraintm]

50/50 shot between me and a townie

what does this mean? differentiating yourself from town here looks like scumslip to me but also i feel like i've been reading greasy this game (ctrl+f slip in my iso and balk)

Yesterday was ending as either me or a townie being eliminated. If I was scum, why would I have let it get to the stage where people were saying "1 more vote kn geraint and ill switch"
If i was scum, it was way too close when I had such an easy hammer on a townie.
To me, I cant see how others could explain my behaviour as scum

[geraintm]

people do that as scum all the time, i've done it quite a few times

You are cleverer than me then.

[geraintm]

VOTE: geraintm

I had a long long gap, and if you go look at my games you will see how good I am.

I'm town. Pushing to eliminate me is not going to work.

[geraintm]

I really don't see how there's parnter equity between me and flea

Ibsont see how you can see me as scum, so welcome to the club

[geraintm]

... Looking at my reads so far... my vote isn't moving :3

I tried following your colour coded post. I don't understand how it leads to you voting for me

[geraintm]

Spoiler: D2 faerie vomit

Geraintm

(2):

Egix96

, tris

Andresvmb

(1):

Geraintm

DkKoba

(1):

nopointinactingup

Not Voting (7):

RLotus,

Andresvmb

, bugsray, Jim Hawkins,

Facebones

,

Flea The Magician

,

DkKoba

DkKoba

(3):

nopointinactingup

,

Andresvmb

, RLotus

Geraintm

(2):

Egix96

, tris

Andresvmb

(1):

Geraintm

Not Voting (5):

bugsray, Jim Hawkins,

Facebones

,

Flea The Magician

,

DkKoba

DkKoba

(4):

nopointinactingup

,

Andresvmb

, RLotus,

bugspray

E-2

Geraintm

(2):

Egix96

, tris

Not Voting (5):

Jim Hawkins,

Facebones

,

Flea The Magician

,

DkKoba

,

Geraintm

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate

DkKoba

(3):

Andresvmb

, RLotus,

bugspray

E-3

Geraintm

(1):

Egix96

Facebones

(1):

tris

Not Voting (6):

Jim Hawkins,

Facebones

,

Flea The Magician

,

DkKoba

,

Geraintm

,

nopointinactingup

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate

DkKoba

(3):

Andresvmb

, RLotus,

bugspray

E-3

Geraintm

(1):

Egix96

Facebones

(1):

tris

Not Voting (6):

Jim Hawkins,

Facebones

,

Flea The Magician

,

DkKoba

,

Geraintm

,

nopointinactingup

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate

DkKoba

(3):

Andresvmb

, RLotus, Jim Hawkins

Geraintm

(3):

Egix96

,

Flea The Magician

, tris

Not Voting (5):

Facebones

,

DkKoba

,

Geraintm

,

nopointinactingup

,

bugspray

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate

DkKoba

(3):

Andresvmb

, RLotus, Jim Hawkins

Geraintm

(3):

Egix96

,

Flea The Magician

, tris

Not Voting (5):

Facebones

,

DkKoba

,

Geraintm

,

nopointinactingup

,

bugspray

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate

Gamma Emerald

(5):

Andresvmb

, RLotus, Jim Hawkins,

nopointinactingup

,

bugspray

(E-1)

Geraintm

(3):

Egix96

,

Flea The Magician

, tris

Not Voting (3):

Facebones

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Geraintm

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate

Gamma Emerald

(5):

Andresvmb

, RLotus, Jim Hawkins,

nopointinactingup

,

bugspray

(E-1)

Geraintm

(3):

Egix96

,

Flea The Magician

, tris

Not Voting (3):

Facebones

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Geraintm

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate

Gamma Emerald

(6):

Andresvmb

, RLotus, Jim Hawkins,

nopointinactingup

,

bugspray

,

Facebones

Geraintm

(3):

Egix96

,

Flea The Magician

, tris

Not Voting (2):

Gamma Emerald

,

Geraintm

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate

An elimination has been achieved

I should really make a cheeky lil script for that... it would make life easier...

Lotus was on Koba all the way through and seemed to be keen on that from what I remember... Jim I'm not entire feeling sure of rn... Still happy on Geraintm.

So, me being very vocal that eliminating dkkoba was a bad idea gives me no town cred.
Me not voting for someone who was scum day 1 gave me no town cred.

I'm not sure what I can do to ever convince you I am town, as not voting for scum or town makes me look scummy to you.
Either you are suffering massive bias in your view of me, or you are trying to push my elimination for other reasons....

[geraintm]

No, I was trying to point out it is hard to get town cred for both not voting scum and not voting town

[geraintm]

you and gerain*

Spoiler:

But yeah, what I'm thinking is this:

Jim is very likely to be town imo.
I'm also pretty sure that Lotus is town.
That leaves bugspray, geraint, and Flea.
But geraint is unlikely to be scum with bugspray, or with Flea.
Which leaves bugspray and Flea as the scumteam by PoE.

What I am being reminded of here.

i will have to go back and see if this logic makes any sense, but i like how i get eliminated because my partners make no sense.

[geraintm]

So, we have Clidd/No Point <_ Mason

Bugspray
Jim HAwkins
Me
Rlotus
Egix
Flea

2 scum left from Flea, egix, rlotus, jim hawkins and bugspray

So thoughts

Bugspray - i make it they have voted for
Jam Hawkins

Andres
me
DKKoba
facebones

only Jim HAwkins is not Town.
that is a mighty poor streak of voting, very unlucky to always hit town

Jim HAwkins

voted

Cook

Dkkoba
me

one early scum, rest is town

Rlotus

voted

Facebones

Flea

Cook

Dkkoba
me

Flea

that is a pretty mixed list

Egix

nopoint

RLotus

andres
me
facebones

flea

doesn't look great

Flea

Cook

me

Cook

me

that is very focussed

I am sure i have missed votes out, i havent tracked and noted everything.

Bugspray looks bad
Flea i thought was town before, and i would like if they weren't so fixated on me
Egix has a lot of town on his voting list
Rlotus - meh
Jim HAwkins - meh

So, Bugspray and Egix are who i think are the most likely to be scum
it would make the day 1 elimination to have no scum on it.
i would want to eliminate within those 2 right now, with likely Bugspray top

anyone want to go over my working and comment

[geraintm]

gerain I have voted cook, your entire post is predicated on a lie
VOTE: gerain that mgiht be yeet1

thanks for pointing that out. as i said, i didnt track every vote. i actualy only have 1.4/1.6/1.8/1.12/1.14 from day 1

will update your voting record to reflect that.

Bugspray - i make it they have voted for
Jam Hawkins

cook

Andres
me
DKKoba
facebones[/]

so, an early vote for cook on day 1, an unknown vote on jim hawkins and the rest are town

that fair Bugspray?

[geraintm]

@bugspray

I am sure i have missed votes out, i havent tracked and noted everything.

anyone want to go over my working and comment

[geraintm]

Hey Bugspray, good to see you again.

I was going to have a break tbh, but then a voice told me to come (and here I am).

What do we have about claims/mechanics so far?

Besides my own role, of course.

im pretty sure you are the only person who has a public claim.

[geraintm]

Your readlist is not very intuitive, Gerain.

Which part of these votes is suggestive to you?

It seems to me that you are more filling space in your posts with lIoA content than drawing an AI conclusion from it that really makes sense to you.

pedit: So I'll probably die then, meh.

Thanks anyways.

i usually look for things like "not voting scum", "voting scum when it was clear they were going to be eliminated", "consistently voting town" the really obvious stuff.

[geraintm]

updating my thoughts from post 1741

Bugspray - does have an early vote for Cook Day 1, but then lots of town.
I am not going to give them much credit for an early Day 1 vote on scum that got moved elsewhere quickly for no strong reason (it was Vote Jim I dig)
i still have them as leaning scum

Jim Hawkins
lean town
they eliminated Cook day 1, were one of the earlest votes on which stuck. i tend to give town credit for votes on scum that didn't really need to be there and could have come off before an elimination

Rlotus
lean scum
eliminated Cook day one, but one of the later votes when cook was looking like toast, and tried to jump off before coming back.
since then lots of town votes

Egix
everything is voting for town
lean scum

Flea

lean town

i am not going to vote for Flea or Jim today.

Egic, Rlotus and Bugspray look worst

latest vote count though is

Egix and Rlotus for Flea
Jim and Bugsray for me

VOTE: rlotus but i think the 2 are in the rlotus, bugspray, egix

[geraintm]

Gera, what makes you think that someone who voted more on slots that were town is scum instead of town with bad reads?

because scum usually vote town and not scum?

[geraintm]

Scum can buss and town can be wrong and suspect town.

How do you differentiate?

with guesses? i have at no point said my method is infallible, but it is the best i have. On average, scum will vote for town more often than town do, and will vote for scum less than town. they will be on final eliminations of scum less than town. and votes placed on scum if placed early in wagons and leave (especially easily) look suspect.

we can argue over my way of thinking if you wish, but i'd rather people actually respond to who i suspect is scum and say if they think i am on the right track or not - either those i have eliminated or those ive left in

[geraintm]

It is not necessarily mandatory for scum to always vote on town, but where it is advantageous according to the gamestate.

Your argument is that scum votes more on slots that are town than scum, but town can do that too.

yeah...this is my argument. i've never said town don't vote town - they have to to miseliminate people - just on average my thinking should be right. and we now have 3 eliminations to go on.
again, don't focus on my method, tell me if yuo disagree with who i think is town and who is more likely to be sum

[geraintm]

then im not sure what to do to improve your view on me. i have you as town.
i don't have any extra info than in this thread to go on (which makes me 100% certain i won't get eliminated at night) so make do with what i can - which are votes and some commentary around them from the players- and muddle the best i can with that.
i don't claim to be a good hunter of scum, but i think it is hard to fake - it comes to the same results if done by town or scum.

[geraintm]

Trying to go through everyone's reads to make sense of it

Clidd has
Rlotus/jim hawkins town
Bugspray/Egic/Flea scum
me lean scum

Rlotus has
Clidd/Jim Hawkins/Egix as town
me as lean scum
Flea/Bugspray scum

Bugspray is weird

Has me and Flea as scum
Egix lean scum
but also in 1726 has Flea as town

Jim Hawkins has

Flea, Egix, Bugspray as scum
and voted me

Flea
Rlotus as town
Jim hawkins as null
me as scum
voted for egix

Egix

has Jim hawkins and clidd as town
Rlotus lean town
me lean scum
bugspray and flea as scum

If anyone wants to correct my readings of people's opinions, then please do.

I am going to VOTE: Bugspray
i think Rlotus could have switched to me today if they had really wanted to and get an elimination, but they have held off. bugspray seems inconsistent in their posts today, i've never liked their vote history

[geraintm]

Don't you think that RLotus was towny besides his vote?

I don't get it why you're using these reasons as AI. Scum can unvote too, not just town. Considering that you're a LHF (if you're town),scum didn't even need to push you today, as long as they keep you around to ELO and then push you there for the win.

Your reasoning feels very fake, but I intend to check your slot by PoE, as I mentioned before.

i actually had Rlotus as lean scum from their voting. why going through today was important and neseccary. i think Rlotus as scum could have pushed a successful elimination of me today (and i know i am not a top priority for scum, but i am 90% sure scum would have settled for an easy elimination of me to get to 5 players/2 scum).

Vote Count 4.5

Flea The Magician (2):

Egix96, RLotus

E-2

Geraintm (2):

Jim Hawkins, Bugspray

E-2

Egix96 (1):

Flea The Magician

Not Voting (3):

nopointinactingup, geraintm, Bugspray

With 7 alive it takes 4 to eliminate

Day Four Ends In:

(expired on 2021-02-14 06:13:00)

this is the bit where i think scum Rlotus could have got me eliminated. i had 2 votes on me and Flea has been itching to vote me. Rlotus, if they were scum, i think could have easily fabricated a case against me.

please don't focus too much on my methods (which you have done today), just see if where i end up and if it makes sense.
i am trying to be as clear about my thinking as i can, i am not trying to misrepresent my logic at all. if you really want to get into it i can try and explain myself better, but we are (maybe) getting close to deadline and wasting time arguing how i am arriving at decisions isn't too helpful i dont think. but that's just my view.

[geraintm]

Geraintm has just voted for both RLotus and Bugspray, neither of which had any other votes at the time. It almost reads like diversion to see if a wagon will pick up. The only other wagon this could be diverting from would be Flea.

VOTE: Flea The Magician
You are at E-1. Say what you need to.

oh, i am very willful with my votes and vote my way. they aren't distraction votes, just what i think i should be doing.

[geraintm]

I'm not going to get killed tonight because scum no know value in it.

But I'm not sure how I can be scum when I have passed up repeated opportunities the last few days to vote for townies and not. I would have to have been the most confident scum going to just sit out every single vote.
Like...if I was scum and I know flea is gunning for me I just sit here for days waiting for everyone else to vote for flea and hope to gain town credit for ir?

[geraintm]

So we have 4 town left.
Clidd is mason.

They areneither going to get rid of Cliddesden and leave 3 town to try and work it out, but with a powe role left alive.
Or go for the power role with a 50/50 shot of hitting and to try and win it from there.

[geraintm]

Gera, again, your approach to the game is strange.

In the sense that the logic of your scumhunting is questionable and, as I have already commented more than once, it is very easy for you to be scum with the current instance.

There is a chance for you to be town acting sporadically, but you're not making it easy to read you.

I'm not going to accept the ''too scummy to be scum''. Townspew/towntell or you'll get eliminated eventually.

I'm getting penalised for my poor reads, but I know fleas read of me being scum is wrong. It is hard whilst in game to argue with people saying my reads are bad .
One, they may well be.
Two, I have extra info than yoy do ( my alignment) that means I know when some reads from others are right or not.

[geraintm]

And why don't I get credit for reading flea as town, saying I wouldn't vote for them? We've just gone and eliminated town and I said they were. You say you don't like my scum hunting, but identifying town and saying so is valuable too

[geraintm]

So why do you want me gone then?

[geraintm]

I think it is bugsprsy and egix btw.
I have zero additional information to provide. I think I've been pretty obvious that I am a vanilla townie.
There has to be someone who is town out there with some info though, right? Something to help

[geraintm]

We had a fruit vendor and 2 masons, and they had a 2 shot roleblocker so I refuse to believe there isn't at least 1 of you out there with somethkng

[geraintm]

Ok, I buy the mason claim from Jim. Not voting there the rest of the game.

That leaves rlotis, bugspray and egix.
I am pretty sure I eliminated rlotus from being likely scum yesterday (on phone so hard to find the post) so I will be voting between egix and bugspray today. I think we are all happy with egix going first?

[geraintm]

Don't you think that RLotus was towny besides his vote?

I don't get it why you're using these reasons as AI. Scum can unvote too, not just town. Considering that you're a LHF (if you're town),scum didn't even need to push you today, as long as they keep you around to ELO and then push you there for the win.

Your reasoning feels very fake, but I intend to check your slot by PoE, as I mentioned before.

i actually had Rlotus as lean scum from their voting. why going through today was important and neseccary. i think Rlotus as scum could have pushed a successful elimination of me today (and i know i am not a top priority for scum, but i am 90% sure scum would have settled for an easy elimination of me to get to 5 players/2 scum).

Vote Count 4.5

Flea The Magician (2):

Egix96, RLotus

E-2

Geraintm (2):

Jim Hawkins, Bugspray

E-2

Egix96 (1):

Flea The Magician

Not Voting (3):

nopointinactingup, geraintm, Bugspray

With 7 alive it takes 4 to eliminate

Day Four Ends In:

(expired on 2021-02-14 06:13:00)

this is the bit where i think scum Rlotus could have got me eliminated. i had 2 votes on me and Flea has been itching to vote me. Rlotus, if they were scum, i think could have easily fabricated a case against me.

please don't focus too much on my methods (which you have done today), just see if where i end up and if it makes sense.
i am trying to be as clear about my thinking as i can, i am not trying to misrepresent my logic at all. if you really want to get into it i can try and explain myself better, but we are (maybe) getting close to deadline and wasting time arguing how i am arriving at decisions isn't too helpful i dont think. but that's just my view.

This is where I mentally excluded rlotus yesterday. I could be wrong, but I am happy with an egix then bugsray progression

[geraintm]

I will note that rlotus was on flea at the time, who was town, so it was just them switching a vote from one town to another. I suppose I shouldn't eliminate the possibility completely they are scum

[geraintm]

let's do this thing
VOTE: egix

[geraintm]

How were we wrong?

[geraintm]

Oh well

[geraintm]

Am happy with my notes to go public.
That felt weird for town. Like...we didn't do anything.

[geraintm]

Hojest Thoughts:
The setup was a little dull. AS town, it felt like sitting there and hoping scum made mistakes. If town hadn't lucked out day 1 and killed scum, we would have been rolled over even quicker.

It felt like 2 groups of 3 trying to eliminate the other side first, except one side didn't know the other team, and the other team getting an extra kill every day.
I was sitting there the last couple of days waiting for someone on the town side to come out and eliminate a few people from being scum, just to improve our guess odds. It didn't need to be a cop, just someone to say someone was safe. Without it we got to 2 vs 3 and needing to play perfectly and that was so unlikely. And can you imagine this game if we hadn't got scum day 1 and we got to 3 vs 4 a day or too earlier?

I dunno, I clearly undervaluing having 3 masons, all they did was clear one person for a short period of time.