TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Mistyx]

I've determined this counts as anime

i will not be taking criticism at this time

[Mistyx]

VOTE: DEB

button press go brrrrr

[Mistyx]

This is a genuinely likable playerlist; I know all of you pretty well, with the exception of zoraster.

^^ this, I know and love the majority of players here.
VOTE: zor announcing you'll sheep Shea unconditionally is a really easy way to place an RVS vote without substance behind it.

had the same thought

didn't think it was worth a vote

[Mistyx]

This is a genuinely likable playerlist; I know all of you pretty well, with the exception of zoraster.

^^ this, I know and love the majority of players here.
VOTE: zor announcing you'll sheep Shea unconditionally is a really easy way to place an RVS vote without substance behind it.

had the same thought

didn't think it was worth a vote

Its page 2, what exactly is "worth a vote" at this stage in your mind?

nothing serious i assure you

also it's page 1

[Mistyx]

This is a genuinely likable playerlist; I know all of you pretty well, with the exception of zoraster.

^^ this, I know and love the majority of players here.
VOTE: zor announcing you'll sheep Shea unconditionally is a really easy way to place an RVS vote without substance behind it.

had the same thought

didn't think it was worth a vote

Its page 2, what exactly is "worth a vote" at this stage in your mind?

nothing serious i assure you

also it's page 1

ok but why? How do you think we get to a point where votes mean things?

i don't think it's worth pressuring yet

partially because it can be mistaken for rvs

partially because that specific point isn't something that can really be expanded on with pressure

[Mistyx]

This is a genuinely likable playerlist; I know all of you pretty well, with the exception of zoraster.

^^ this, I know and love the majority of players here.
VOTE: zor announcing you'll sheep Shea unconditionally is a really easy way to place an RVS vote without substance behind it.

had the same thought

didn't think it was worth a vote

Its page 2, what exactly is "worth a vote" at this stage in your mind?

nothing serious i assure you

also it's page 1

ok but why? How do you think we get to a point where votes mean things?

i don't think it's worth pressuring yet

partially because it can be mistaken for rvs

partially because that specific point isn't something that can really be expanded on with pressure

Ok but if you think its something scum would want to do why would you want to let scum get away with doing it? Like, isn't that a thing that pressure would do, i.e. force zoraster to take a more tangible stance?

i don't think there's any world where the tangible stance is anything beyond "i wasn't being serious"

[Mistyx]

Like I don't understand why you would note something which is vaguely suspicious at a time when we have no information and then not act on it, it's weird to me. It's the antithesis of how I play the opening, so I'm confused to see you doing the literal exact opposite of what I would do in a given situation.

This gets quickly into theory crafting and what not which doesn't end up being very helpful but I think this is worth noting.

i prefer establishing basis for townreads early compared to scumreads

[Mistyx]

Ok this is a really theory question but I can't help myself:

Do you really think those things are mutually exclusive?

n

i'm just less comfortable establishing a basis of distrust on people this early

because that's how tunnels start and i personally try to avoid doing that

[Mistyx]

i am happy with the questioning

in terms of like, alignment stuff

[Mistyx]

Rawr!
Weekend vla

Pagetop? It's onnnnn

lockscum

This is the game where Flavor will try so hard to be town that nothing is really town yet.

I mean, it's just not smart to town read me this early, let's be honest.

i agree i'd rather nullread you all of d1 and red check you n1 c:

[Mistyx]

It’s a silly question because Iconeum said they were going V/LA and Nancy asks on page 2 if they have something to say about the game "so far". Like there’s been so much happening.

How is that a “silly” question? What does them being V/LA have jack to do with it? Misty called Ico scum, so I questioned them.

oh

that was a joke

[Mistyx]

It’s a silly question because Iconeum said they were going V/LA and Nancy asks on page 2 if they have something to say about the game "so far". Like there’s been so much happening.

How is that a “silly” question? What does them being V/LA have jack to do with it? Misty called Ico scum, so I questioned them.

oh

that was a joke

Oh well I did think that was rather strong. A lot of jokes tend to go over my head. However, I still want Ico to respond whenever he gets the chance.

actually, if you thought i was serious, why not question me saying i didn't like establishing early scumreads then calling someone lockscum off of two posts that had nothing to do with the game?

[Mistyx]

It’s a silly question because Iconeum said they were going V/LA and Nancy asks on page 2 if they have something to say about the game "so far". Like there’s been so much happening.

How is that a “silly” question? What does them being V/LA have jack to do with it? Misty called Ico scum, so I questioned them.

oh

that was a joke

Oh well I did think that was rather strong. A lot of jokes tend to go over my head. However, I still want Ico to respond whenever he gets the chance.

actually, if you thought i was serious, why not question me saying i didn't like establishing early scumreads then calling someone lockscum off of two posts that had nothing to do with the game?

Yes I should have because I was surprised by it but I was more focused on getting a reaction from Ico. I wanted to get Iconeum’s reaction first and probably only if I liked it would it have occurred to me. I generally tend to ask questions if something pings me and maybe based on what you’re saying it should have but it didn’t. Probably because I’ve seen plenty of players react like you did to those kind of opening posts.

that makes sense

[Mistyx]

think that post is probably a towny mindset from nancy

[Mistyx]

i'm gonna try this

VOTE: norwee

[Mistyx]

No you are not.

really now

[Mistyx]

It's absolutely hilarious how scummy I think I look right now. I'd be tunneling me so hard.

what’s the purpose of this post

[Mistyx]

It's absolutely hilarious how scummy I think I look right now. I'd be tunneling me so hard.

what’s the purpose of this post

What's the purpose of anything I ever do, Mistyx?

wifom, apparently

[Mistyx]

It's absolutely hilarious how scummy I think I look right now. I'd be tunneling me so hard.

what’s the purpose of this post

What's the purpose of anything I ever do, Mistyx?

wifom, apparently

You've seen me as both alignments more than anyone here, so I find it really hard to believe you needed to ask that question.

VOTE: Mistyx

yeah but i still understand you even less than i did when i first met you :v

[Mistyx]

I've been told I can't quote my teammates but I CAN paraphrase them so, here's Cephrir laying down a dope beat:

Yo Zoraster, you got to do something, man
Can't just lurk around like you got no plan
See Flavor Leaf made a scummy vote
You gotta push his wagon until you're sore in the throat.

You gunna explain? What are your or Cephs thoughts on my interactions with ramcius if you're reading the thread?

Town v. Town (that's my take, not Ceph's)

is this a blanket read or do you have reasoning

[Mistyx]

molla is weird because like

he's making understandable pushes

but they're all generally safe ones

also he has voted pine three times in a row without moving his vote off

[Mistyx]

It's really kind of annoying that so many people seem to be putting little to no effort into this game.

weekends make me lazy

[Mistyx]

what do you mean by understandable but safe, and what do you think it means for his alignment?

like

i don't disagree with his pushes

but i think they're really easy ones to make regardless of his alignment

so i dont think it points to anything about his alignment

which makes me read him as slightly scummy

[Mistyx]

Misty my teammate says you are town but i really don’t understand your play and why you are voting me.
Can you explain what in the hell you are doing this game?

i dont know what you're having trouble with

[Mistyx]

Misty my teammate says you are town but i really don’t understand your play and why you are voting me.
Can you explain what in the hell you are doing this game?

i dont know what you're having trouble with

That you're on a wagon and not even pushing/having a justification for it.
Like stop wasting time and get on a wagon that actually has a chance to go through so we can get some pressure on slots. Especially when the gamestate's been kinda dull.

which wagons are acceptable to you, then?

[Mistyx]

i think you're just mad that i'm voting you

[Mistyx]

misty's reasons for calling me scummy are stupid

quite possibly yes

[Mistyx]

glad to see the people i'm scumreading think my scumreads on them are bad

what a shock

[Mistyx]

I legit thought you weren’t even doing that because you don’t even argue what i’ve dine that’s scummy.
Like if you call this scum hunting then i’d hate to see you being passive.

i thought a lot of your early posts were commentary-ish in a way that pinged scummy

i also think your push on zor is kind of easy and you aren't doing much outside of that

[Mistyx]

I legit thought you weren’t even doing that because you don’t even argue what i’ve dine that’s scummy.
Like if you call this scum hunting then i’d hate to see you being passive.

i thought a lot of your early posts were commentary-ish in a way that pinged scummy

i also think your push on zor is kind of easy and you aren't doing much outside of that

why is zor not scum

not saying that

[Mistyx]

glad to see the people i'm scumreading think my scumreads on them are bad

what a shock

it's objectively bad regardless of it being on me

like ask your team mates

teammates (okay well teammate) say it's not bad

[Mistyx]

I legit thought you weren’t even doing that because you don’t even argue what i’ve dine that’s scummy.
Like if you call this scum hunting then i’d hate to see you being passive.

i thought a lot of your early posts were commentary-ish in a way that pinged scummy

i also think your push on zor is kind of easy and you aren't doing much outside of that

why is zor not scum

not saying that

you have to be by calling a push on zor easy

nope

i think easy pushes can land on scum

but i think only having easy pushes and not reads on higher content slots is >rand scum

[Mistyx]

okay uh

it seems like you want me to do something but i do not know what

[Mistyx]

you take v/la weekend only seriously huh

[Mistyx]

Rawr!
Weekend vla

Pagetop? It's onnnnn

lockscum

This is the game where Flavor will try so hard to be town that nothing is really town yet.

I mean, it's just not smart to town read me this early, let's be honest.

i agree i'd rather nullread you all of d1 and red check you n1 c:

serious or?

n

[Mistyx]

I don't understand why people think that people can play differently from game to game. I don't fall in the "meta is trash" camp but I certainly think its overused and mostly badly in cases like this one.

agree on this without having read the game

[Mistyx]

I legit thought you weren’t even doing that because you don’t even argue what i’ve dine that’s scummy.
Like if you call this scum hunting then i’d hate to see you being passive.

i thought a lot of your early posts were commentary-ish in a way that pinged scummy

i also think your push on zor is kind of easy and you aren't doing much outside of that

why is zor not scum

not saying that

you have to be by calling a push on zor easy

nope

i think easy pushes can land on scum

but i think only having easy pushes and not reads on higher content slots is >rand scum

Only if you think they’re lhf.

Do you think Zor is lhf?

Norwee is hard tr me. *confuzzled*

in this game, yes

[Mistyx]

I'm always LHF as scum because i barely post and freeze. Does that make me town in those games? It absolutely doesn't.
Do you have reason to believe Zoraster plays like this as town?

let me clarify

i don't think zoraster is only lhf as either alignment, and i don't think him being lhf says anything about his alignment in this game

i'm saying regardless of his alignment, he is lhf this game, and that makes him an easy push

that is my logic here

[Mistyx]

I think what bothers me about Misty's play here is that they vote me and state it is because quote: "I'm voting/pushing a low hanging fruit slot", so when i ask them by which logic this slot is not scum they answer they have no idea reason to believe the slot is either scum or town. A hard null read essentially, so that just makes it super weird because why would you assume someone a player is scum for pushing a slot you yourself nullread?

because that's the majority of your substantial content

[Mistyx]

MC caught up btw

he didn't like any of TGP's votes and thought nancy's 147 could be WKing Norwee, and is liking shea and FL

personally am still sorta liking nancy and have no read on TGP

[Mistyx]

Are people in this game really this dense or am I getting trolled

quite frankly i think your attitude is the problem

[Mistyx]

Are people in this game really this dense or am I getting trolled

quite frankly i think your attitude is the problem

Is it a scum attitude or town attitude

i don't mean in terms of alignment

i think you're not being open to working with people because they disagree with you

[Mistyx]

which when i say it like that makes it sound >rand town, probably

VOTE: TGP

[Mistyx]

Are people in this game really this dense or am I getting trolled

quite frankly i think your attitude is the problem

???

i dont like being talked down to or being called dense

[Mistyx]

Are people in this game really this dense or am I getting trolled

quite frankly i think your attitude is the problem

???

i dont like being talked down to or being called dense

I do

alright

[Mistyx]

i'd be okay with voting ramicus i think

[Mistyx]

i was originally going to wait to see more from zor before placing a vote here, but this post is just so needless, hostile, and uncalled for (zor, you haven't done much with the game and aren't responding to any pushes on you, which is terribly scum indicative and i haven't seen a single? towny thing from ANY of your posts), so VOTE: zor this is reasonable here.

I'm hostile here because I am in no way going to pretend that loudness is what we should be seeking as to whether or not someone is worthy of driving a wagon. I think the other criticisms are fair! I haven't done much! Be annoyed with me as a player if you want. I would be if I were you. Vote for me if you think that makes me scum. You're wrong but this I get! But don't tell me that someone posting a lot and sees themselves as an

important player

is the reason I should do anything.

if you think the criticism is fair, why are you being hostile towards it?

[Mistyx]

i was originally going to wait to see more from zor before placing a vote here, but this post is just so needless, hostile, and uncalled for (zor, you haven't done much with the game and aren't responding to any pushes on you, which is terribly scum indicative and i haven't seen a single? towny thing from ANY of your posts), so VOTE: zor this is reasonable here.

I'm hostile here because I am in no way going to pretend that loudness is what we should be seeking as to whether or not someone is worthy of driving a wagon. I think the other criticisms are fair! I haven't done much! Be annoyed with me as a player if you want. I would be if I were you. Vote for me if you think that makes me scum. You're wrong but this I get! But don't tell me that someone posting a lot and sees themselves as an

important player

is the reason I should do anything.

if you think the criticism is fair, why are you being hostile towards it?

see:

I'm hostile here because I am in no way going to pretend that loudness is what we should be seeking as to whether or not someone is worthy of driving a wagon.

:`(
Me feel so bad now.
He's hostile because i claimed to be important, oh woe be me the world is so unfair.

Ignoring the snark, this is accurate.

okay

well i am not important but i would like to request you make more content so we can read you better

[Mistyx]

not hammering zor

fine parked on TGP

it's like 11 pm and i've cried more tonight than in the past like, month? but i dont think its anything to worry about and going into any more detail would probably be oversharing, so like, perfect mood for mafia

still would also wagon ramicus, didn't like his last post, and also "my teammate said that you are relying too much on your teammates" is a pretty good meme

i'm tired.

[Mistyx]

@zor
How many total charges of abilities do you have?

[Mistyx]

@zor
How many total charges of abilities do you have?

1

i dont mean per ability i mean overall

between every ability combined

[Mistyx]

What's wrong with my last post?

it read like an excuse to get out of something you couldn't back up

did you get an answer on that btw

[Mistyx]

wait ignore me nvm

[Mistyx]

i'm not in support of a massclaim

there's no useful info to be outed by it

[Mistyx]

I mean maybe if people can stop pretending 'this isn't my scum meta' is collection of words that holds any meaning whatsoever.

i say "this isn't my scum meta" whenever i feel like minorly trolling as town or when i think i'm outside of what people would expect from me as scum

[Mistyx]

Hard Hard Hard town read on Ico.

Ico V Nancy is TvT like high 90s % of the time I think.

agree with this sentiment

[Mistyx]

VOTE: zoraster

going back here

i dont think anything he did really gave me more confidence on him being town and he kinda dropped off once attention started being focused elsewhere

[Mistyx]

this feels like a very sort by postcount become mafia expert sort of game

[Mistyx]

molla probably town

[Mistyx]

Mistyx - Town
Iconeum - Town

TheGoldenParadox - ?

Nancy Drew 39 - Town
Flavor Leaf - Town (grain of salt though)
Pine12 - Town
thestatusquo - Town

Ramcius - Town enough for day 1

NorwegianboyEE - Town

zoraster1 - Townish for ~reasons but posting is so awful

BBMolla - Town

Dr Easy Bake1 - ?

Akarin1 - ?

where I'm at atm

don't give my posts too much credence I just needed to organize my thoughts

whats with the 1s and 2s

[Mistyx]

o

that makes infinitely more sense than it being you trying to keep track of your scumteam

[Mistyx]

Over here waiting like...

waiting for what

[Mistyx]

I think we have the slowest game in all of TM.

probably for the better, really

[Mistyx]

I want to get rid of an relatively inactive and unhelpful slot today.
BBMolla does not fit that criteria as they seem engaged.
Akarin has had bursts of activity.
Zor has done nothing but excuses and made scummy posts.

Of these current wagons i endore Zor, could maybe be convinced on Akarin but not really as i don’t see why they are scummy. BBMolla no.

molla's in the top half of posts

why'd you mention him here

[Mistyx]

I want to get rid of an relatively inactive and unhelpful slot today.
BBMolla does not fit that criteria as they seem engaged.
Akarin has had bursts of activity.
Zor has done nothing but excuses and made scummy posts.

Of these current wagons i endore Zor, could maybe be convinced on Akarin but not really as i don’t see why they are scummy. BBMolla no.

molla's in the top half of posts

why'd you mention him here

Because i am talking about the current leading wagons.

oh

i am so zoned out lol

[Mistyx]

This only really goes for DEB since that slot seems to often choose this particular playstyle. I wouldn’t townread any of the other slots here currently for this play.

this post stuck out to me as really towny and i cannot articulate why

[Mistyx]

molla wagon is bad i think if i didnt already say that

im probably parked on zor unless i see something telling me otherwise

[Mistyx]

Meh, if they’re a scum 1-shot Neighborizer what’s a better claim?

1-shot loyal neighborizer comes to mind

[Mistyx]

i hold further confidence that nancy is town, especially after pokebattles just finished

i also still think ico is town /shrug

[Mistyx]

For what it's worth, I did not read Ico vs Nancy

i've skimmed parts of it and decided they were both town and then stopped

[Mistyx]

why was the flip edited into the nightstart post i got confused lol

okay lets do some NKA

after lunch tho

[Mistyx]

tgp deb akarin zor were molla's main scumreads is what i got from the iso

hmm

[Mistyx]

VOTE: ramicus

boop

hated the jump onto norwee

think FL push on norwee is also bad but not scum bad

will acknowledge that that's sort of shady but i just

don't agree with the reasoning

[Mistyx]

like, i dont think pointing out something disassociating norwee with akarin is TMI on norwee's end

it seems like a reasonable response to FL saying they're in a team

[Mistyx]

think FL push on norwee is also bad but not scum bad

this is just you looking at the surface level then

possible

[Mistyx]

i'm like way past that at this point, that was an in the moment type thing.

can you walk me through the rest of it then?

[Mistyx]

Ram is very obviously town here.

talk w/ me about this?

[Mistyx]

My advice would be to try engage lurkers, if you want something from them. Wagoning disinterested people rarely brings anything useful and just pushes them from the game even more

Sometimes scum coasts if there’s no pressure on them to do anything. Wrt Akarin, I don’t believe it’s AI because she told me she’s dealing with some rl stuff. As for Pine, it’s entirely NAI for him. DEB? Who tf knows?

deb is usually just

like this

but its been a while since ive seen him town iirc

[Mistyx]

i'm like way past that at this point, that was an in the moment type thing.

can you walk me through the rest of it then?

@FL

Can you answer this

[Mistyx]

reserving judgement on DEB for the time being

TSQ, can you walk me through why your read on Ramicus today outweighs the push you had on him yesterday?

[Mistyx]

@Pine
While i do reapect your coping mechanism for getting back into the game.
Giving yourself a "clean slate" as you seem to imply where you’ll put everything that’s prior behind you also reads to me as an excuse to not need to show any townie engagement on any of the prior content. And it’s also going to leave obvious big holes and gaps in your knowledge of the game which is going to be a bit distracting when we actually try to press you for information and transparency in your thought process.

what do you think he should do instead

because this honestly just reads like shade

[Mistyx]

I think most town should read up fully to the game.

and if one doesn't have the time to do that what should they do

[Mistyx]

I think most town should read up fully to the game.

and if one doesn't have the time to do that what should they do

Replace out.

alright then

[Mistyx]

i have determined that this is a theory point so it's not worth arguing

[Mistyx]

VOTE: norwee

i dont really have a detailed explanation at this point in time

but i think he shifted towards being more aggressive today after getting pushed and i kinda dislike it

[Mistyx]

VOTE: norwee

i dont really have a detailed explanation at this point in time

but i think he shifted towards being more aggressive today after getting pushed and i kinda dislike it

What kind of bullshit justification is this.

read the first line again

it's me trying to articulate gut feelings mostly

[Mistyx]

i see this was the wrong time to check thread

[Mistyx]

this game is not really progressing

and i am

struggling to articulate my feelings

i dont think DEB has been that towny but also not egregious

akarin just doesnt exist and im getting more and more willing to just kill them unless they improve soon

i still dont like norwee but cant really explain why, i've just gotten pinged by a few of their posts

[Mistyx]

So pine made his big AtE "hey I'm behind I'm going to ignore the whole game and read the last 10 pages and start fresh" thing and we've thusfar gotten... nothing.

m-hm

[Mistyx]

I could also see it as possible attempt to derail by narrowly focusing on me to the exclusion of other slots.

i think the way that this gamestate has progressed this is naturally happening between the two of you

[Mistyx]

I could also see it as possible attempt to derail by narrowly focusing on me to the exclusion of other slots.

i think the way that this gamestate has progressed this is naturally happening between the two of you

Please explain because it’s not making any sense to me?

i think you two just kinda started

tunneling each other

that's the best way i can put it

[Mistyx]

i'm not (helping to) kill today:

Nancy/TSQ/Norwee

pending stuff that needs adressing, i may or may not wanna kill:

TGP
FL

slots that I would have no problem yeeting today:

Pine/Deb/Akarin/Ramc (these are in order or preference)

i like the fact that

i literally just dont exist

nice

[Mistyx]

VOTE: norwee

i dont really have a detailed explanation at this point in time

but i think he shifted towards being more aggressive today after getting pushed and i kinda dislike it

going backwards in mistyx iso this immediately sticks out

a vote on someone who's being pushed by 2 of the most present slots in-game, for 'being more agressive after being pushed'.

Why didn't Mistyx come after me or Nancy yesterday? We were both a lot more agressive during our 1v1 then previously. In fact, mystix I think called it 'natural'?

what is so scum!indicative about getting heated when ur being pushed and especially if you feel ur being shitpushed?

you guys were being aggressive before, norwee was being sort of passive

idk words

[Mistyx]

aggressive probably isn't the right word but like

proactive ig?

[Mistyx]

UNVOTE:

realistically i think we can probably just kill pine/DEB/Akarin all in a row if they dont improve or get replaced and be ~fine

[Mistyx]

UNVOTE:

realistically i think we can probably just kill pine/DEB/Akarin all in a row if they dont improve or get replaced and be ~fine

Realistically we can have a decent flip and get ton of associations, decent wagon to analyse and not be in square one on D3, but sure, let's flip another lurker and hope for the best, because that always works

i dont want slots with this low content at lylo

[Mistyx]

UNVOTE:

realistically i think we can probably just kill pine/DEB/Akarin all in a row if they dont improve or get replaced and be ~fine

Realistically we can have a decent flip and get ton of associations, decent wagon to analyse and not be in square one on D3, but sure, let's flip another lurker and hope for the best, because that always works

i dont want slots with this low content at lylo

But that includes you, tbh

at least im trying

[Mistyx]

@mod

since pine got prodded 3 times, shouldn't that be a replacement?

[Mistyx]

you know what i think i am going to go iso ramicus

[Mistyx]

hmm

probably worth noting that i dont think akarin is with any of TSQ/TGP/Ramicus

i dont think ramicus was that towny D1, he had a pretty narrow focus that i think scum could easily fake in this gamestate

[Mistyx]

that's a scum slip.

no

[Mistyx]

that's a scum slip.

no

this post just pisses me off.

like let him fucking post mistyx. i'm obviously not going to fucking push that as a main reason.

alright

sorry

[Mistyx]

@TGP

when you get a chance, what have you done that's outside of your scumrange this game?

[Mistyx]

hmm

probably worth noting that i dont think akarin is with any of TSQ/TGP/Ramicus

i dont think ramicus was that towny D1, he had a pretty narrow focus that i think scum could easily fake in this gamestate

I think Ram is town. I probably have the most familiarity playing with him.

can you walk me through this read a bit?

[Mistyx]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78060&user_select%5B%5D=28978

Ram towngame

@Ram, I couldn’t find your scumgame. Can you link it? Thanks.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76181

that game is almost three years old though

[Mistyx]

chennis did

not seem excited at the prospect of having to read FL

i could try to drag something out of him but i dont really want to

[Mistyx]

this mafia game is certainly a game

[Mistyx]

@TGP

when you get a chance, what have you done that's outside of your scumrange this game?

@TGP

[Mistyx]

him

her

[Mistyx]

Like if you disagree with what I'm saying that's fine but like 6 or 7 people have posted since I posted this and only pine has seen the need to comment on it and thats fucking wack.

in my experience people dont read wallposts

i read it and i'd wagon there though

[Mistyx]

I just realized I am not voting

VOTE: Akarin

[Mistyx]

i think tsq town and it's a solid case

[Mistyx]

mine?

yours

[Mistyx]

also please stop calling things that are blatantly not scumslips scumslips

[Mistyx]

alisae hasn't been in chat since e got banned

[Mistyx]

You really think that people vote someone the next day because they agreed to vote them the day before? Show me. I think the thing you're accusing norwee of is nonsense.

You said someone is "trying to set up three town miselims." how do you know those people are town, other than yourself? I don't do this to suggest you're TMIing, I'm saying it to show how much I think TMI is a bullshit overused tell. Townies accidentally TMI all the time.

oh lol

pine scumslipped lol

nice

we can do him next

scumslips arent real zzz

[Mistyx]

i regret catching up

[Mistyx]

@mod is flavour actually relevant to this game?

I actually just looked up all of this stuff and came to the conclusion that flavour is completely irrelevant to both role and

alignment

. Flavour only slightly made sense with Zor’s role. It didn’t with molla’s, TGP’s or mine for that matter. Molla’s flavour was a thief. :lol:

without a scum flip, how do you know this?

[Mistyx]

titus says that Norwee and FL should never be voted unless Akarin flips town

i'm inclined to agree

[Mistyx]

Titus needs to explain that Norwee take.

the charts speak to her i am just the middleman

mistyx needs to explain that FL take.

something something gamestate is unproductive towards saving scum!akarin, fl is central to gamestate

[Mistyx]

no im saying you are not trying to save akarin

[Mistyx]

also presumably that

i think you misunderstood titus's take on you

[Mistyx]

why would i try to save akarin

i think if you're scum with akarin here you're approach to today isn't productive

having seen you play scum you pretty much always have a plan and i'm not seeing that here

...actually i think i just talked myself into a straight up townread of you

[Mistyx]

I'm literally never in a million years making a decision in a mafia game based off of Titus VCA which in my opinion has never been used to draw correct conclusions in the history of ever.

ignoring titus's opinion, do you disagree with the take?

[Mistyx]

I'm literally never in a million years making a decision in a mafia game based off of

Titus VCA which in my opinion has never been used to draw correct conclusions in the history of ever

.

I respect Titus's opinion

, but that kind of vagueness is pinging my scumdar hard.

ok

[Mistyx]

I'm literally never in a million years making a decision in a mafia game based off of Titus VCA which in my opinion has never been used to draw correct conclusions in the history of ever.

ignoring titus's opinion, do you disagree with the take?

I'm not really making any statement other than i have a visceral negative reaction to VCA of the kind that Titus produces.

alright

[Mistyx]

I’d rather become the elimination just to discredit FL and make sure nobody listens to him again than have an Akarin flip.

i doubt you really believe this

[Mistyx]

I generally enjoy and trust Town!Titus’s opinions

then why did you quote TSQ saying she'd never been right with them

[Mistyx]

yaaaaaay

[Mistyx]

FL having 35 times the amount of posts as DEB really says a lot about society

[Mistyx]

FL having 35 times the amount of posts as DEB really says a lot about society

this could have just said we live in a society tbh

probably but i thought i was funny

[Mistyx]

Keep in mind that if i'm flipped today, nobody should ever respect anything Pine/Ramcius/FL has to say for the remainder of the game.
FL's townread on Pine is likely wrong. Pine's read on the gamestate is wrong. Ramcius is wrong and should be ostracized for not even attempting to solve slots.
It's not likely all 3 of them are scum, but don't expect them to have good reads even if town.

i don't get the point of posts like this beyond spite

like there's nothing productive in saying "dont take these players' thoughts into account even if they are town"

it's still information that's worth considering the same as anyone else's

[Mistyx]

not accepted

[Mistyx]

You should also consider that i'm feeling perpetually pissed off. I hate this game.

i've realized that yes

[Mistyx]

quite frankly i've been disengaged with this game because a majority of it is stuff i'd disregard normally when reading stuff

[Mistyx]

I will not be voting in Pine, Nancy, Ramcius, Ico, DEB and I don't really want Akarin. Who's that leave?

Norwegian
Status
TGP

yeah, that means one of my town reads are probably wrong, but i don't 100% know where

wow i guess i literally do not exist

[Mistyx]

not even the first time this game this has happened btw

[Mistyx]

thank you deb

[Mistyx]

VOTE: TGP

[Mistyx]

oh that's E-1

also, nice^3

[Mistyx]

i don't think pine is endgaming as scum here

[Mistyx]

Alright I may or may not have a play

I’ll let y’all know if my team agrees with it

[Mistyx]

Ram/Pine would probably be my first two kills

I’m wondering if we should massclaim today

[Mistyx]

Alright

I'm claiming town vengeful, dont remember my flavor and don't care enough to check

I propose we elim me today so I don't die to endgame paranoia and we don't waste my kill

This is numerically better because if we don't do this it's 6v2 > 4v2 > 2v2 = endgame after 2 town kills and if we do it's 6v2 > 5v2 > 3v2 which gives us 2 town kills then a potential F5

[Mistyx]

welp, im getting venged

I plan on treating this as a second elim

Use hurt tags to vote for who I should kill, all actual votes should go on me and only me

[Mistyx]

Nancy, what about Ramicus's posts this game makes him your top town?

This game specifically, without using meta

[Mistyx]

I don’t want us to lim Misty.
They’re not even close to my top scumreads.

its mathematically optimal

[Mistyx]

I probably could have waited until tomorrow but didnt want to risk getting NK'd

[Mistyx]

also i said i was going to use it as a second elim but thats a slightly loose definition

i'm probably going to factor other things in than just votes

[Mistyx]

I don’t want us to lim Misty.
They’re not even close to my top scumreads.

its mathematically optimal

You’re going to have to explain this because i’m mathematically illiterate.

no venge - 6v2 > 4v2 melo, 2 town kills min before parity
venge - 6v2 > 5v2 > 3v2 elo, 3 town kills min before parity

[Mistyx]

alternatively, I still have my doc shot

we could elim someone else today and have you doc me tonight

and then use my venge tomorrow

but i think doing it in 6v2 is better than 4v2

[Mistyx]

The only world in which this is a good idea is if we think Misty!scum. But i don’t so let’s just try to eliminate scum.

this is a good idea if you have any consideration of me being scum

[Mistyx]

I don't believe Pine's claim because I don't think DEB uses the strongman n2 after his D1

[Mistyx]

Last year's mini theme

2-shot alien
1-shot Loyal neighborizer
1-shot vig
Doctor
BP/Loved/Hated granter JOAT
Watcher/Tracker/Follower JOAT
VT
VT
VT
VT, I think

1-shot strongman
2-shot roleblocker
Watcher/Ninja/Commuter JOAT

[Mistyx]

I don't believe Pine's claim because I don't think DEB uses the strongman n2 after his D1

Doesn’t town jk make sense with a strongman though? It has to make sense with something. At least of FL/Pine has to be telling the truth here even if FL continues to be hopeless at reading me. But him continuing to push me is somewhat pinging me because I don’t think he’s dumb.

fair

[Mistyx]

me or norwee

[Mistyx]

Last year's mini theme

2-shot alien
1-shot Loyal neighborizer
1-shot vig
Doctor
BP/Loved/Hated granter JOAT
Watcher/Tracker/Follower JOAT
VT
VT
VT
VT, I think

1-shot strongman
2-shot roleblocker
Watcher/Ninja/Commuter JOAT

Okay, so

Zor JOAT (Watcher, Tracker, Voyeur)
Molla JOAT (Doctor, Commuter, Follower)
TGP 1-shot neighborizer
Akarin Novice 1-shot Vig

Misty Vengeful Town
FL JOAT (Doctor, Commuter [N1], Follower [N2, Norwee=N/A])
Pine Jailkeeper [N1=FL, N2=Ico]

Ico VT
Nancy VT
Ram VT
TSQ VT
Norwee VT

DEB Mafia 1-shot Strongman

[Mistyx]

im putting this in a spreadsheet to visualize it

gimme a bit

[Mistyx]

okay so

I think there's one scum in the VT claims

and the other scum is either FL or pine

doing a setup comparison, there were 4 VTs last year and the setup seems to be designed to be somewhat similar - both games have 1-shot vigs and neighborizers but with different modifiers

pine's JK lines up with klick's doc, zor's JOAT lines up with mine - these are both pretty direct

i think molla's JOAT lines up best with hito's talisman granter though not particularly well

which makes the odd claims out mine and FL's

[Mistyx]

if you line FL's claim up with last year's doc instead pine can line up with the 2-shot alien which makes sense

the vengeful doesn't really line up with anything but is probably indicative of the other town power roles being lower power than they were last year

which is why I think there's a fake in the claims

[Mistyx]

alien = jk, jk stronger due to ungated
1-shot vig = novice 1-shot vig, ~equal power - novice is not that notable of a modifier
1-shot loyal neighborizer = 1-shot neighborizer, loyal much stronger
mist's joat = zor's joat, mist's stronger
talisman joat = molla's joat???, molla stronger
doc = fl joat?, fl slightly stronger???

idk

[Mistyx]

1-shot Loyal Neighborizer is basically a 1-shot cop, that's a LOT better than a 1-shot Neighborizer

yeah i think that's the only major hit in power though

follower is probably better than voyeur but i wouldn't say by a substantial amount

and i think pine's JK and molla's JOAT make up for it, compared to the alien and talisman JOAT

[Mistyx]

i think pine's claim makes a lot of sense compared to last year

[Mistyx]

i think FL's claim is just the odd one out

norwee/nancy/ram/shea are all claimed VTs, right?

[Mistyx]

Maybe this is tinfoil, but what if scum are actually weaker here and chose claims to line up to the power level of last year.

Can't shake that thought.

i doubt it

there's a pretty direct trend in the flipped roles between zor/tgp/you

[Mistyx]

i could buy scum being weaker especially if i'm right and there's scum outside of the VT claims

the notable tradeoffs here are loyal neighborizer for neighborizer and doc for vengeful and maybe a joat with doc

[Mistyx]

i would actively expect it not to be

same but thats not what the provided evidence suggests

[Mistyx]

I don't understand why we think that this setup would be based on last years? That seems like a very shitty way to design a setup and I would never do it as a mod, so I don't know why that's the first place we're going here.

because multiple of the flipped roles blatantly line up with last year's

[Mistyx]

i made a spreadsheet for this i can assure you i know what i'm talking about

...i think

[Mistyx]

Pine's is an extremely obvious fakeclaim in this setup

1. There have been exactly 0 other roles in this and the previous game that are not limited by number of shots. An ungated jailkeeper claim does not match the design ethos for the setup.

2. His claim says "Aside from FL's 1-shot doc, I am the only protective role in this game." Pine is trying to assign additional value to his claim. Note that FL is A. claiming exactly the same role as someone else, and B. Not necessarily telling the truth.
But if Pine is assuming he is telling the truth there, which is inherently strange, this is definitely phrasing to enhance self-importance and disregard that there has already been a significant degree of town protective when scum only has a 1-shot strongman

3. This is absolutely not a conftown claim; rather it is one that MUST claim last for scum to have any chance of faking results without being called out by PRs. Pine knows goddamn well that an unconfirmed and unconfirmable jailkeeper claim is as far from being confirmed town as anything else he could claim.
He hasn't spoken at all about his N1 jailkeep which is the only thing that would actually matter for when his claim occurred if he was town. Insisting on claiming last can only be to ensure he is not himself caught in a lie.

VOTE: Pine

I agree with point 2

But point 3 doesn’t make sense and point 1 is factually wrong, klick had a full doc last year

[Mistyx]

I will repeat that I think FL/Pine has exactly 1 scum

I don’t think FL’s claim fits in this setup

I would not be surprised if he was lying about his role as town

I think out of the VT claims nancy is the towniest then norwee

[Mistyx]

FL/TSQ
FL/Ram
Pine/TSQ
Pine/Ram

I think it’s one of these 4

Does anyone think any of these pairings have non-partnery interactions

[Mistyx]

I agree with everything norwee said about Pine. If pine is scum the last scum is likely fl. I don't understand the "exactly one scum in fl and pine" because to me they make a lot of sense as buddies.

setup spec

if both are scum town is substantially weaker here than last year

[Mistyx]

oh

[Mistyx]

thank you shea

[Mistyx]

point of the venge is that it’s only +value if we do it with even numbers

[Mistyx]

Hello

I’m not caught up but I have takes anyway

Titus doesn’t want the doc to target me tonight and thinks Ram looks bad from VCA (she has not yet elaborated)

[Mistyx]

I don’t see why every role has to be 1-shot.

Misty isn’t.

I just think that’s a really naive take

um

[Mistyx]

I don’t see how a role that activates on death isn’t explicitly a 1-shot

but

[Mistyx]

hi shea how are you doing

[Mistyx]

like sorry, take out setup spec, you guys have absolute nothing why I'm scum, it's just a personality read because people don't know how to separate it.

okay

let's actually talk about this because i think its an interesting point

[Mistyx]

fl what have you done differently than how you would play this game as scum?

[Mistyx]

okay

fl do you have a townread on pine for reasons outside of you two having the same solve?

if so, could you walk me through it?

[Mistyx]

Finally, a note from Jingle expressing disbelief at the amateurish setup spec in this game:

Wait, they're doubting you as a full protective?

Scum had a Strongman. Scum never have a Strongman to counter scattered 1-shots. They only have a Strongman to counter a full protective.

End of story. SMH

they literally did last year

[Mistyx]

Finally, a note from Jingle expressing disbelief at the amateurish setup spec in this game:

Wait, they're doubting you as a full protective?

Scum had a Strongman. Scum never have a Strongman to counter scattered 1-shots. They only have a Strongman to counter a full protective.

End of story. SMH

they literally did last year

Disbelieve. Receipts.

viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81719

protectives were jjh (2-shot alien), klick (2-shot doc), hito (JOAT with bp giver)

[Mistyx]

we have two claimed doc/commuters

if FL's claim is true that on its own justifies the strongman on its own, right?

[Mistyx]

Finally, a note from Jingle expressing disbelief at the amateurish setup spec in this game:

Wait, they're doubting you as a full protective?

Scum had a Strongman. Scum never have a Strongman to counter scattered 1-shots. They only have a Strongman to counter a full protective.

End of story. SMH

they literally did last year

Disbelieve. Receipts.

viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81719

protectives were jjh (2-shot alien), klick (2-shot doc), hito (JOAT with bp giver)

And that's a

lot

more protection than we've seen here.

Are you listening to yourself?

yes

i think if you consider the commuters as protectives then it's a comparable amount, even though i wouldn't say it's as much

[Mistyx]

we have two claimed doc/commuters

if FL's claim is true that on its own justifies the strongman on its own, right?

We have 1-shot doc and 1-shot self-commute. That's not even in the same league as what last year's game have.

Further, Jailkeeper is also negative utility, in that I also roleblock the people I protect.

This is

exactly

how you balance that.

if you're saying it's just the 1, do you not believe FL's claim?

[Mistyx]

okay here let's take it from the top down

akarin is essentially mech clear

i think nancy is obvtown, by tone, by meta, by approach, etc etc

i think norwee is towny from tone/approach stuff, and there's been a couple posts i've seen from him that are just "yes this person is just town"

i think TSQ had a really good d1 but has dropped off since then

i don't think ram was towny at any point really and titus wants me to push him though im not sure why on the latter

i think FL has been very FL this game and like, i kind of want to take what he said about being scum with DEB at face value, plus i think DEB would be more motivated to play scum with him

pine is a contentious slot that i do not have a strong read on but i think his approach to today has been kind of pockety to FL specifically which is like

??? why fl only, is it to try to draw associations after flip?

[Mistyx]

we have two claimed doc/commuters

if FL's claim is true that on its own justifies the strongman on its own, right?

We have 1-shot doc and 1-shot self-commute. That's not even in the same league as what last year's game have.

Further, Jailkeeper is also negative utility, in that I also roleblock the people I protect.

This is

exactly

how you balance that.

if you're saying it's just the 1, do you not believe FL's claim?

I don't know where you get that from?!

FL's claim is solid.

FL has claimed the role molla flipped as

If you think that FL's claim is true, that's 2 1-shot docs and 2 1-shot commuters

[Mistyx]

Like why do i claim Molla's role as scum. Why don't I just claim JOAT with different actions

eh?

i don't think that's particularly ai

[Mistyx]

I think FL/Pine has 1 scum, leaning towards Pine

I think Norwee/TSQ/Ram has the other, Ram > TSQ > Norwee being my order from least to most towny

[Mistyx]

WHAT has Norwegian done that is tonally Towny? Was it when he stoked arguments? Strawmanned people? Maybe when it was when he used AtE to avoid suspicion?

approximately half this game has done this sort of stuff

so.

[Mistyx]

now im expecting the question, "mist, are you even playing the same game as us"

the answer is probably not! i have ignored all the things that i do not want to see which is like 60% of this game

it is not productive to solving but this game has been very heated and i do not read through that well

[Mistyx]

UNVOTE:

realistically i think we can probably just kill pine/DEB/Akarin all in a row if they dont improve or get replaced and be ~fine

Realistically we can have a decent flip and get ton of associations, decent wagon to analyse and not be in square one on D3, but sure, let's flip another lurker and hope for the best, because that always works

i found this

[Mistyx]

now im expecting the question, "mist, are you even playing the same game as us"

the answer is probably not! i have ignored all the things that i do not want to see which is like 60% of this game

it is not productive to solving but this game has been very heated and i do not read through that well

Then I'm afraid you need to grow up as well. Ignoring 60% of the game and basing your reads on the polite parts is a great way to get biased and incomplete reads.

to be fair i am not actually an adult

so i'm working on the growing up part

[Mistyx]

worth noting that ico had norwee and TSQ as hard town

so that's probably not the team because they kill like, nancy over ico

[Mistyx]

i'm not (helping to) kill today:

Nancy/TSQ/Norwee

pending stuff that needs adressing, i may or may not wanna kill:

TGP
FL

slots that I would have no problem yeeting today:

Pine/Deb/Akarin/Ramc (these are in order or preference)

here

it was still somewhat early on but it was a thing, and i didnt see indication of it trending down when i skimmed his late d2 iso

[Mistyx]

lets work this from reverse

do you think theres something clearing any of the following

FL/TSQ
FL/Ram
Pine/TSQ
Pine/Ram

this is an open question - its like 1 am for me and i do not have the attention span to look through stuff rn

but i dont want to look for evidence in favor of it, more to see if theres anything ruling it out

[Mistyx]

ugh

hey akarin/nancy can y'all talk to me when you're online