Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!

[Jake The Wolfie]

Why am I your main topic Jake?
Don’t recall anything like this during smoke-filled-antechamber

You're not.

[MariaR]

Catching up tomorrow. Had a birthday party to deal with

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay
Why’d you make it sound like that, then

[Jake The Wolfie]

Okay
Why’d you make it sound like that, then

I was questioning Jingle about their incorrect use of Fixation.

[Spring Breeze]

pedit: I see with regards to Zaiden, but are you able to explain more what looked good from Noraa by any chance Kanna

i quite liked the private read; it felt like good faith when most people were saying they were scummy. i also agreed that the PI scumread was overhyped based on blatantly scummy stuff which in reality prob isn't actually that scum indicative. i disagree with what you said about the emoticon read, but i'll talk about that one in a bit

i asked infinity about his noraa soulread and he said something like scum!noraa does things specifically to get townread while town!noraa probably spews whatever even if it might not look good. this in particular is pretty heartsong, as isis would say

No ok so Pooky says Nancy TRs me and Midway bear says that means that I am obvtown but not Nancy/Pooky.

This is just such a terribly weird perspective. It doesn't make sense at all.

From my perspective, I am town because role pm but Nancy/Pooky TRing me doesn't necessarily mean anything to me and doesn't determine their alignment.

But like an outsider should think that only if Nancy is town, am I town. Because if Nancy was scum and I was town, I am LHF that is easily SRed.

No. This reeks of TMI.
Midwaybear is scum. 100%

also there's little moments where you can see her really using her brain, which i'll quote the emoticon read + this other post

Pooky, lilith would like you to know that she knows you copied the flower girl emoji thing from her.

This comes from scum more often than not imo. Ik that if my buddy was town and I saw someone steal a beautiful emoji, I'd tell my buddy to kick them. But if I was scum, I'd use it as a slight pocket attempt the way this^ feels.

The reason it felt genuine is cuz you probs could've thrown a pinch of AtE in there if u wanted to but you didn't.

i feel pretty good about this now after infinity!

[Gypyx]

@Gypyx, what are the specific questions you are talking about? I looked through your list of posts and don't see any questions directed at me there. Since you;re not being a dick I'm happy to talk about my thoughts with you and answer them to the best of my abilities.

cheetory is the one who asked you the question, i think you didn't answer those yet?

[Gypyx]

Alright.

VOTE: Noraa

Pending sanity confirmation from teammates, I'm pretty much sold here.

Noraa turns around from

I mean I think im rather obvtown but I always think that soooooooooo that's fun!

to this

Wow im concerned now. I've never heard Dannflour's name in terms of playing mafia but ik they modded a lot. I expect better reads than this from them and you tbh.
When I saw this, I immediately started thinking that you were scum pushing Private and me. To be honest, I agree Private's post was scummy but it was also extremely LHF-y and from my experience, the mish mash mods can sometimes be full time LHF.

With functionally nothing but fluffposting in the middle.

Noraa has played exactly one game with me. One game in which shellyc was both town and scum and I got shot due to a mod error on N2. Noraa herself says she doesn't know shit about Dann. And yet... I'm a strong scumread on the basis of BoP.

Despite this, there is like no effort put into convincing anyone that I'm actually scum.

Combining that with the fact that she's scumreading mwb for sheeping a Nancy read while ignoring PB doing literally the exact same thing (Note: PB brought this up):

Pink Ball why is SPF your strongest SR?
I can understand your logic on me but that read seems less developed which doesn’t exactly make sense for your strongest read

You're right, it's less developed. It's based on her entrance on p1, and SirCakez picked exactly what I thought about her when she entered the game. Since it's a p1 read it's more of a gut read than a developed read, but it's stronger than what I have developed towards you or my other reads.

The important thing is, and that's why I said that I'm happy with my reads right now, at the end of the day, SPF can flip whatever, and SirCakez will still be town.

And also sheeping reads on Maria herself.

Seems pretty obv to me that she's just making shit up to see what sticks.

i don't get how this is actually scum though? (like, how do you go from "inconsistent reads that don't directly contradict each other" to "she's making shit up"?)

[Gypyx]

VOTE: Gypyx

this is a better wagon than zaiden

rude

[Morning Tweet]

Gypyx i strongly shared that same sense of Noraa not believing in what she posted, particularly during that catchup sticks out in my mind, maybe i wrote something earlier that explained it well, maybe that's something i still need to give more thought.

and Kanna ill look more into your points as well -- about the private read in particular, what is it that makes it seem good faith to you (this applies to SPF as well earlier) -- like the act of not joining a scumread train itself does not imply town to me. id actually probably be more likely to defend somebody who already has enough heat on them as scum, in the case they are a more LHF town as least which is the impression Noraa got.

i do have a bit of a conflict where i do think the backlash to the private post was too great and i can see why Noraa wouldn't accept it though. she goes as far to hard locktown him for seeming too LHF and i was under the impression earlier that she did that quite quickly in response to maybe 1 or 2 posts of theirs they make after the fact

[Morning Tweet]

Oh and the emoticon thing went over my head, i believe i see what she's getting at there now. It might not hold weight to me but you make a fair point that it's a pretty thought out kind of read, a lot more "complex" than just saying X is scummy for doing X or "this is scummy".

[Gypyx]

Gypyx i strongly shared that same sense of Noraa not believing in what she posted, particularly during that catchup sticks out in my mind, maybe i wrote something earlier that explained it well, maybe that's something i still need to give more thought.

alright me and my team will take a look at that too then

Noraa, you wouldn't dare to roll scum again right

[Zaiden]

So SFP full townreads SpringBreeze just because they feel like it and that's supposed to make total sense without any sort of justification? Wouldn't the gap in needing to explain anything therefore be meta?

I'm going to assume you are talking about MariaR here. I think the way she presented the read leaves room for the method she used. Perhaps it was a meta read, but Maria could also have found some of Spring's posts townie independent of such. It's definitely understandable that Maria hiding the reasoning doesn't sit right.

As for the lack of response over my queries on Pooky/SpringBreeze. Again, wouldn't the lack of any explaining anything be a gap that's filled in everyone else's mind by meta?

Yeah, I explained the dynamic between them earlier. Take a look at 638. This is the one example of meta being used as a read that I will acknowledge.

Apparently Gamma was scumlean to some people because of being pedantic, which again sounds like a gap that's being filled with meta. Like why must being pedantic be a scum indicative thing?

Being pedantic isn't scum indicative. Jake's vote was not a good vote for that reason.

Because I'm being asked to take things at face value which I personally just can't take at face value in the absence of any actual explanation.

Yeah, so it seems that sometimes you interpret scumreads/townreads on others as meta when it isn't really. Earlier in this game, you talked about catching scum based on inconsistencies. Can you talk more on that?

Yeah I had a look back and realised I was talking about MariaR. Apologies about that, I got it mixed up.

Because I don't see pedantic as being alignment indicative without additional context of past behaviour. I think it's a very difficult question to answer myself on who I would outright kill so if I was asked I would hesitate too (and maybe get called pedantic for it) because the intentions behind Jake's question - three times too - seem loaded as heck. Especially since it's so early on and we have very little to go off. You can easily pin an ulterior motive on anyone. Compared to structuring it like 'You getting bad vibes from anyone? If so, why? What are your underlying reasons to think along those lines and do any particular interactions stand out to you?'. Now the way Gamma chose to answer wasn't ideal but I didn't think that pedantic reaction was unwarranted from my POV.

"you interpret scumreads/townreads on others as meta" - not really. Just townreads/scumreads that seem to have no underlying basis to them. And there's a whole lot of those in this game. So to me the gap/lack of logic in some reads can only be bridged by meta I don't know that you all take as a given.

When I say inconsistencies obviously scum aren't going to make this mistake every time but I've played in a few open setups where someone was pressured and they oddly assumed an exact number of scum even though it wasn't specified by the mods anywhere. And that led to them being ejected then flipping scum. Other than that there's also really odd backtracks, night actions being incronguous with another claim and questionably suboptimal usage of some power roles. Like I get people are going to sometimes make random choices because we don't know what the mafia are going to do but then there comes a point in statistics where it just doesn't add up. To give an analogy like that Minecraft's person's statistically improbable speedrun I keep seeing talked about in YouTube videos. I'm not sure if people who play mafia an absolute ton like many of you guys here would make that kind of mistake but it surely must happen once every blue moon.

[Zaiden]

@zaiden -

one of my partners (super) says that you are hard town and that she feels bad for the pressure you're under. she wants to be in the same game as you because she's a big fan of clannad too

Your friend has amazing taste. After Story is my top No.1 undisputed favourite anime. Literally changed my life and no other anime comes close.

[midwaybear]

but it surely must happen once every blue moon.

People are sometimes inconsistent, and it isn’t always clear which alignment the inconsistencies come from. Real slips are pretty rare yeah.

Do you have any thoughts based off of the past few pages. Did your teammates get back anything to you?

[Zaiden]

but it surely must happen once every blue moon.

People are sometimes inconsistent, and it isn’t always clear which alignment the inconsistencies come from. Real slips are pretty rare yeah.

Do you have any thoughts based off of the past few pages. Did your teammates get back anything to you?

Not yet. They said they'll have a look and provide some reads after they're done with stuff they need to do during the day. Same with me tbh. I will take a clearer look over the new pages/old pages once I'm done with other obligations post-work. I also need to watch the latest Attack on Titan episode with some real life people over Discord. At a cursory glance I suspect there's backtracking going on since people realised I wasn't an easy target anymore and went for Nora instead because maybe they're perceived as another easy target to attack. But I would need to extensively read into these responses/Nora's activities to have more concrete thoughts/analysis.

I'm not convinced by Jake's response in 948 I think instantly slamming a vote for lack of content could be seen as more questionable while baiting a response then slamming a vote makes it seem more justified. It seems a bit calculated to me. I'm also saying calling another player to come and play seems scummy because you're drawing attention away from yourself to potentially their lack of activity. A bit like 'Oh look this person's kind of flying under the radar don't people think?' as a way of subtly deflecting from yourself. Or calling them to your side because you think you can rely on them to back you up/help you out. Like Jake didn't answer why this player in particular over other less active players? Is it because you specifically wanted to generate an interaction and make both of you come across a certain to the rest of the lobby?

To address the final point I suppose it's easier to force inconsistencies in real life I guess because you pressure a person on the spot to give an answer and they have less time to improvise townie thoughts or reactions. It's a shame that's less possible online but I guess that's just how it is.

[MURDERSUNNY]

infinity has also said he's sussing you a bit because he thinks noraa is towny. i also thought jingle's case was pretty bad

My vote has nothing to do with Jingle's case.

[MURDERSUNNY]

This is pretty much Noraa's scum meta from two games of reference now

So vote?

[Noraa]

VOTE: Jingle

Pretty obvious scum tbh. That vote on me is actually like absolute crap. I expect better from jingle.

[Noraa]

Haven't read up. About to catch up now.

[Noraa]

Tbh most of my town reads in this game aren't well articulated. I'll provide a reason if it helps. I've been trying out a new way of solving that is hard for me to adjust to. I'm learning from momrangal and its hard. I can't put things into words the way she can but I am trying. There's a lot of nuance that doesn't exist in my scum game here. Sometimes that nuance doesn't exist in my town games either but it's here and if you look closely, you will see it.

This should be taken into account by anyone who is trying to meta read me. I am not playing my normal game. Take that how you will.

[Cheetory6]

Agree that Jingle looks way worse than Noraa or Gyp.

[Noraa]

Ok now the readup begins!

[MURDERSUNNY]

Noraa if you trust me, let this wagon on you happen.

[Noraa]

If we used that logic, I'd be rolling town in every single game. Someone calls me locktown in every game.

Well, maybe the logic doesn't apply in this case, which is useful information. But we're not debating the validity of it; we're debating whether it's reasonable for town to believe it.

I still believe that midway and you are scum. I could *possibly* be convinced that I was wrong about midway but right on you. I just don't think both of you are town.

[Noraa]

Noraa if you trust me, let this wagon on you happen.

say what?