TM 2021: A normal roguelike

[petapan]

nah if it were any other username i'd agree with you but this is a special case and i wanna get it out of the way now

[DeasVail]

Ari, in response to your question to me, I chose Adorable's vote because it came at a time when there had been some vaguely interesting posts made, it was a vote on Augustus who had been a relatively loud player, Adorable had only just made the vote so chances of real-time interaction were high, I didn't have any familiarity with Adorable so it would have been good to get some insight, and I just happened to be looking at the thread at the time and thought it would be fun to subvert RVS expectations and meta for a bit of wtf!

But now I have some questions for you!

I think your read of DV is directly effected by your read on Adorable and I don't know that it is the best metric to base it upon.

But what is YOUR read of me?

There is a lot of commenting on other people's reads and criticising the reasoning, but this is actually very easy to do as scum! What is more difficult is coming up with thoughts of your own which I notice you haven't actually done very much of despite saying a lot of words.

Similarly, you say the beeboy vote is meh, but I want to know what vote you think is not meh.

[Adorable]

Aristophanes are you all caught up? Some of the stuff you have asked me have already been answered. The part when you asked me about what do I think of you using meta to defend me mean to me about my read on you is making me lean town on you. I don't believe in scum white knighting me and why should scum defend me when I could have been a really good push for scum to eliminate. In a world if I am ever being defended by scum, then this would mean that scum knows what my weakness is in my town games.

[Aristophanes]

Oh good, nothing to say from page 8. Just past game meta arguments that Idgaf about from Datisi/Bulge, Adorable saying whatever, and the weird conclusion of the Sirius/Bulge thing that again makes Bulge look bad. Might have to case Bulge after this tbh. Seems I keep coming back to them.

Also, Sirius, something AI would be really nice from you.
Thx.

you
still
haven't
responded
to
dv's
post

Lol I can hear the Clap Emotes and they aren't even here XD
Uh, this is kind of the hyperfocusing on one thing that I was worried about with Reck WRT Hectic. I think he's found a new target and honestly this is a pretty big red flag imo. FoS on you my friend.

bulge townie


adorable in 56 you said the vote wasn't based on anything, but in 58 you said it was because of how augustus gave a fast town read. that's what people are getting on your case about. can you address this?

You didn't want to elaborate on Sirius. Can you elaborate on The Bulge here?
And as I asked Reck, what honestly do you expect their answer to be here? Everyone being stuck on this shit is legitimately stupid.

DV is probably town though. I'll give them that.

okay.

maybe im overthinking it but dont think scum acts so blatantly self-contradictory early game and the responses seem to come from some sort of headspace where this all makes sense

This. Scum also wouldn't have avoided the question like they did. This is why the pages of uproar about it are so fucking ridiculous and likely have scum hiding within the uproarious bunch imo.

okay.

maybe im overthinking it but dont think scum acts so blatantly self-contradictory early game and the responses seem to come from some sort of headspace where this all makes sense

this is bad though bc adorable is acting self-contradictory and i think that's town or scum indicative! i think scum, especially those unfamiliar or newer, will have a harder time staying logically consistent
they'll blurt out whatever
adorable just seems to act in a weird manner and has now stumbled over herself to re-explain why she's so contradictory
like, the idea is... "i voted someone, said it was based on nothing when asked, then retroactively gave a justification for it... then got called out on giving a retroactive justification for it, and took 100 posts to get coached by my scumteam on how to respond to it"

idk man i feel like i see people in the current site meta trying to trip over themselves to explain how scum dumbfuckery is actually

too dumbfuck

to be scum and the fact of the matter is uh it gets caught like that for a reason

Oh look, Reck is still sticking on this after it's been resolved. Just like I figured they would.

Fuckit
VOTE: Reck

That was short lived.

End of pg 10.
We're getting there. Sorry everyone (:

[Datisi]

This interaction, or lack thereof, gives me partner vibes on Datisi and Bulge, though we all know how reliable preflip associatives are especially this early in the game. I'll be keeping an eye on them regardless.

dude are you kidding me with this

was i supposed to acknowledge peta's non-serious (correct me if i'm wrong) read on bulge's positioning on the wagon because it contradicted my very-super-serious read on the same thing? and that gives you partner-y vibes because...? you think i'm so desperate to townread my buddy?

Sure, both jump at me for this one earlyread. That really helps your case

Yes I was serious here. It's something I thought was a weird interaction to not have happen. I don't think you were that desperate to townread a buddy, but I don't see why you would make a directly opposite joke without acknowledging the previous mention of it? Like usually that would be the kind of joke made in the next post, not on a different page. It just has weird vibes all over it.

It's really earlygame stuff though, so it's not like I'm giving it a lot of weight. The reaction to it is really interesting though.

there's a case of mine here?

well you see, soon-ish after making my first post, i went to bed because the game started at 2am central european time. when i woke up the next morning, the game was already on page three. i saw the talk about bulge being the 4th vote, and that being a scum!position on a wagon, and i thought "hold on, didn't bob make a comment in a scum pt that he found out that the 4th vote on an rvs wagon is almost always town?" so i went to check, and sure enough, he did. and for the injustice that was done to him in that game, i thought it would be nice and/or funny to reference a post of his that i just so happened to remember in that moment.

maybe it's my fault because i should've quoted peta's post there too. maybe you're reaching because it's just these nitpicky details that you can use against me.

the word "interesting" doesn't actually *mean* anything. is it nai? is it ai? in which direction? why?

[petapan]

You didn't want to elaborate on Sirius. Can you elaborate on The Bulge here?
And as I asked Reck, what honestly do you expect their answer to be here? Everyone being stuck on this shit is legitimately stupid.

for the adorable question, i mainly wanted to state it to her in as clerar tearms as possible so she'd answer it and we'd get some sort of resolution. i was looking for some sort of consistency in her reasoning, that she hadn't just decided to justify her vote post hoc after being asked about it by DV. i thought the response made sense but then she seemed to get contradictory again so i just threw my hands up in the air. my problem currently is i can see her using the reasoning she's had this game as town or scum


bulge, at the time, seemed to be asking questions i liked and getting on sirius about the particular time interval felt townie to care about that sort of specificity. on looking back at his iso, i'm not sure i like it much at all actually

[Aristophanes]

nah if it were any other username i'd agree with you but this is a special case and i wanna get it out of the way now

I suppose this is a reasonable point. I don't think I have recent enough beeboy!scum meta to say anything either way here. People say the same about me when I can't produce and it's definitely something worth looking at, but I'd expect it to happen after at least a second proddodge.

Ari, in response to your question to me, I chose Adorable's vote because it came at a time when there had been some vaguely interesting posts made, it was a vote on Augustus who had been a relatively loud player, Adorable had only just made the vote so chances of real-time interaction were high, I didn't have any familiarity with Adorable so it would have been good to get some insight, and I just happened to be looking at the thread at the time and thought it would be fun to subvert RVS expectations and meta for a bit of wtf!

But now I have some questions for you!

I think your read of DV is directly effected by your read on Adorable and I don't know that it is the best metric to base it upon.

But what is YOUR read of me?

There is a lot of commenting on other people's reads and criticising the reasoning, but this is actually very easy to do as scum! What is more difficult is coming up with thoughts of your own which I notice you haven't actually done very much of despite saying a lot of words.

Similarly, you say the beeboy vote is meh, but I want to know what vote you think is not meh.

Thank you DV, I appreciate the answer. It makes good sense for the timing of things.

I think I just answered this in my most recent post, but I think you are strongly on the town side of things. Your followups were reasonable, the explanation here as to why you asked them things specifically is good, and I like the say you reacted to and rethought your trajectory in that slot in particular.

Aristophanes are you all caught up? Some of the stuff you have asked me have already been answered. The part when you asked me about what do I think of you using meta to defend me mean to me about my read on you is making me lean town on you. I don't believe in scum white knighting me and why should scum defend me when I could have been a really good push for scum to eliminate. In a world if I am ever being defended by scum, then this would mean that scum knows what my weakness is in my town games.

No, I'm almost there. I do see that some of this is already long passed now and I would have spun it all into one post if that wouldn't have made an impossible quotewall. As it is this is probably over the top.

Thanks also for the response, Adorable! I think scum would have an alright time hiding in a white knoght role here without actually posting with enough force to convince anyone to unvote you, but I also see what you are saying here. I'm tempted to read into this that scum may have less experience with you if they are not defending you here but I don't think you are saying that, nor is it really something I expect would actually lead to fruitful reads.

Double ninja'd

[Aristophanes]

This interaction, or lack thereof, gives me partner vibes on Datisi and Bulge, though we all know how reliable preflip associatives are especially this early in the game. I'll be keeping an eye on them regardless.

dude are you kidding me with this

was i supposed to acknowledge peta's non-serious (correct me if i'm wrong) read on bulge's positioning on the wagon because it contradicted my very-super-serious read on the same thing? and that gives you partner-y vibes because...? you think i'm so desperate to townread my buddy?

Sure, both jump at me for this one earlyread. That really helps your case

Yes I was serious here. It's something I thought was a weird interaction to not have happen. I don't think you were that desperate to townread a buddy, but I don't see why you would make a directly opposite joke without acknowledging the previous mention of it? Like usually that would be the kind of joke made in the next post, not on a different page. It just has weird vibes all over it.

It's really earlygame stuff though, so it's not like I'm giving it a lot of weight. The reaction to it is really interesting though.

there's a case of mine here?

well you see, soon-ish after making my first post, i went to bed because the game started at 2am central european time. when i woke up the next morning, the game was already on page three. i saw the talk about bulge being the 4th vote, and that being a scum!position on a wagon, and i thought "hold on, didn't bob make a comment in a scum pt that he found out that the 4th vote on an rvs wagon is almost always town?" so i went to check, and sure enough, he did. and for the injustice that was done to him in that game, i thought it would be nice and/or funny to reference a post of his that i just so happened to remember in that moment.

maybe it's my fault because i should've quoted peta's post there too. maybe you're reaching because it's just these nitpicky details that you can use against me.

the word "interesting" doesn't actually *mean* anything. is it nai? is it ai? in which direction? why?

Thanks, having this tangible post makes this a lot less *interesting* to me

Like, it looked like a weird post without this context and I've never heard of this Bob person. So as a fun reference to a totally different game that has no bearing on anything here I'll happily drop it entirely and move on.

"Interesting" here really didn't have a direct link to alignments. It meant that it piqued my interest as weird and therefore I was going to look at you more. It raised my eyebrow and therefore was of interest to me leading me to want to sort you. It no longer has that intrigue. Thank you for the explanation

[petapan]

I suppose this is a reasonable point. I don't think I have recent enough beeboy!scum meta to say anything either way here. People say the same about me when I can't produce and it's definitely something worth looking at, but I'd expect it to happen after at least a second proddodge.

if it's necessary to convince people i will explain but i have basically no intention of letting this slide

[Aristophanes]

You didn't want to elaborate on Sirius. Can you elaborate on The Bulge here?
And as I asked Reck, what honestly do you expect their answer to be here? Everyone being stuck on this shit is legitimately stupid.

for the adorable question, i mainly wanted to state it to her in as clerar tearms as possible so she'd answer it and we'd get some sort of resolution. i was looking for some sort of consistency in her reasoning, that she hadn't just decided to justify her vote post hoc after being asked about it by DV. i thought the response made sense but then she seemed to get contradictory again so i just threw my hands up in the air. my problem currently is i can see her using the reasoning she's had this game as town or scum


bulge, at the time, seemed to be asking questions i liked and getting on sirius about the particular time interval felt townie to care about that sort of specificity. on looking back at his iso, i'm not sure i like it much at all actually

Re: Adorable
That's valid enough. Landing on Null/NAI for that after everything that went into prying the answer out of them is probably not where scum would end up so that helps me read you better

Re: The Bulge
I suppose I can see where you were coming through there despite disagreeing at that point in the game and also thinking the post about timing is totally within the scope of scum!Bulge. As mentioned I think they have a lot of scum equity and need to do an Iso (or just reread my own posts) after this catchup is completed because they pinged me multiple times in the first 2/3 of this game so far.

Ninja'd

I suppose this is a reasonable point. I don't think I have recent enough beeboy!scum meta to say anything either way here. People say the same about me when I can't produce and it's definitely something worth looking at, but I'd expect it to happen after at least a second proddodge.

if it's necessary to convince people i will explain but i have basically no intention of letting this slide

No problem. I mean I wouldn't say no to that but also your conviction here combined with a decently budded townread on you leaves me willing to believe you on this. I don't think it will be my vote at the moment, but I may join you later.

[Aristophanes]

Checking back in with the following:

Datisi, I was waiting for Ari to actually respond to my question before I explained more on how he feels off, and he's still not done so which is rather annoying. I have liked what you've been giving, but you do feel like you're a little overanxious here bud. Idk if that's your usual gig or not, but I don't really think it's anything AI.

Summer Nights/Ydrasse just rubs me in all the wrong ways. Early start was all endless fluff for the sake of posting, but once she you know stopped all of that, she is not consistent whatsoever. Like in one post she's talking about how she really likes how one person is doing, and then the very next about them is talking about how she doesn't feel good about them. And that's hella sus. I don't think I've ever played with her so I have no idea if this is out of character or not. It also feels very noncommital in a way that gives off "don't look at me, I'm harmless" vibes that don't feel genuine but fairly faked. It also seems like her opinions on people were dependant on how they were interacting with adorable. Which brings me to my next person.
Adorable. Something just feels off. Early on she spent an awful lot of time in establishing just what her meta is or isn't, and some very specific expectations she has of scumplay. Which to me felt like a way to be like "look, I'm not doing *these* things, I can't possibly be scum." and "as long as my behaviour is following these rules I've established about my gameplay, then i *must* be town" and I ain't about that kind of stuff. I agree she took a while to answer DV, but as a person who posts very infrequently and often misses stuff directed at me, I didn't mind that. But then her later pointing out how someone else didn't answer a question she asked them wasn't great. A lot of her content being what her team thinks rather than her, also feels funny to me. But I've also never played a Team Mafia before so this may just be par for the course. I just don't like what she's bringing to the table. But also, Summer did an awful lot of defending or explaining for adorable(ctrl-f has adorable show up 20 times in that iso, some of which are quotes, but most are Summer herself), and yet adorable has only talked to or about Summer once, and it was just a direct question that Summer asked her about what she liked in the game. It felt like a softball you'd throw to a scumpartner to set them up for a read or misdirection. I just don't think that a town player would just completely ignore someone who is talking for them that much. Even just a thank you or acknowledgement post, but there's nothing.

So with all of the above in mind, I think Summer Nights and adorable are together in some capacity, and I think it's because they're scum together. But of the two, I am going to VOTE: Adorable

This is really good and says a lot of things I've been thinking. I townread them for it. I also have now responded to the weird feels they had on me so xof, since you apparently have a reason behind it, would you care to elaborate?

Everything Hectic has said about Reckoner so far I agree with and I have been scum reading Reck.

I also don't like how xof said Summer and I are together and xof said Summer did an awful alot of defending me. From what I remember, scum would never defend each other because that just makes the other scum look bad when one of them flips. I'm scum reading both Reckoner and xof and I am suspicious that scum are trying to push an elimination on me day 1.

VOTE: xRECKONERx

I like the vote but the xof stuff is off. Scumplay isn't black and white like this and many scum have defended theirpartners at many points in many games. Do you dislike it because it implicates you as scum or because of theory only?
Also what is your read of Ydrasse?

b/c i don't see any universe where
a) two scum white knight the same townie off of such little pressure early d1
b) two buddies go hard to get pressure off of adorable d1 when it's so early

so at most, one of them is scum IMO

On b) you said two buddies go hard to get pressure off scum so what you're saying here is 2 scum in Hectic, Ari, petapan are scum.

I'm curious to hear from Hectic, Ari, and petapan what they have to say about this post.

You've read way too much into this post, Adorable. I don't think he's saying that at all.

cheet and shea have told me to stop being an asshole and read hectic's posts bc they're not that bad. fine. coming later. ive got zoomthings happening right now.

<3 these guys!
(And <3 you too Reck. Geez )
(I had to look up your 4th since AGar hasn't been mentioned but yeah I can give them a <3 too )
(But that's it! I mean sheehs, what am I? Made of <3's??)

...I think I see why people see my posts as fake now.

Wished I could wait for Monday

Just V/LA

I don't think that's necessary. It's just that I have an important exam on Sunday and I'm afraid this game may distract me from my studies.

Just finished the first part of this shit exam and my reaction is:

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Oof, sending my love my friend! I hope part 2 goes well <3

Shit! I said that was it on the hearts! GDI!

VOTE: aristophanes

I see why DV voted me but what was your reason?

one two seven three
VOTE: aristophanes

You claimed I dipped on the thread and on answering things but then when I tell you I'll be back, that is when you decide to vote me? Why??
I will say though, nice little rhyme there

Oh no my eyes are glazing over now. This isn't even a long or hard read.
Fuck man.

This deadpool alt is fun at least.

Ari is Ari so far. the takes he's given on Reck are okay, not too sure otherwise

@ari, thoughts on 107? I'm not a big fan of the answer you gave

I'm not sure I understand the question. I think his response to my response probably showed that the raging is genuine, but I hope he's done more since then and isn't just raging for the sake of it so he looks like he's contributing without giving any content and having an

easy slot to tunnel

.

I was busy yesterday and work 12h today but if I get a lunch break I'll be back to catch up! Otherwise it will be mostly tomorrow, for which I apologize.

however, Reck never expressed a scumread on me, in fact, he's only had me as a varying level of ~town~
what gave you the impression he is or plans to tunnel me?

btw did you like the cute red highlight i used? i thought it'd be on-brand

Sorry, I knew I'd seen this asked but I couldn't remember where/when. I mentioned in one of my catchup posts that my thoughts were badly stated. I didn't mean tunnel on this like a scumread, but rather hyperfocusing in lieu of other content.

Also yes, the red you used was very cute/cheeky <3

How tf do I get to higher education?

Pay them lots of money, usually.

Also, awesome. I had light Creature townvibes early on but pg 13-14 solidify it

lmao 4th again

Okay, now it's a meme I guess lol
Any thoughts on the more recent comeback posts?

similarly i guess that could go for ari because i don't feel he's done too much i guess? i feel like if i'm wrong about someone so far it would proooobably be him but i don't think so right now, it's not heartbreaking to me if he gets voted out but i'd rather avoid it in the hopes that he comes back and like. goodposts

*waves to Ydrasse*
Hello my friend! I have returned! Thanks for believing in me <3

Can I join the "Wtf is Sirius doing" fangroup or nah?

Oh, and this catches me up to my catchups.

Finally!

[Aristophanes]

Fuck that was a long one.

Imma give my eyes a break now. Be back in a bit.

[Datisi]

one two seven three
VOTE: aristophanes

You claimed I dipped on the thread and on answering things but then when I tell you I'll be back, that is when you decide to vote me? Why??

at the time of typing 280, i already decided my next vote was going to be you. it was just a matter of time. originally was gonna vote you in that one, but something distracted me with adorable idk. i couldn't resist hopping onto a shiny new wagon.

also i don't really care about posts saying "i'll be back" or "i'll do it later". ok we'll talk later then.

I will say though, nice little rhyme there

life is marchin' on, do you feel that~? ♫ ♩

can you make some sorta readslist or something when you're back?

[petapan]

I see why DV voted me but what was your reason?

it was part me starting to think reck wasn't responding to being voted the way i feel scum would, and part dv saying you should be getting more attention combined with your popin. it was not a strong feel. one of my teammates did read the game and said they didn't like your approach to reck but this was after i made the vote

[petapan]

he also thinks sirius is town from a small amount of experience with him. i'm not sure if there is a way to sort him off inthread info

[Aristophanes]

one two seven three
VOTE: aristophanes

You claimed I dipped on the thread and on answering things but then when I tell you I'll be back, that is when you decide to vote me? Why??

at the time of typing 280, i already decided my next vote was going to be you. it was just a matter of time. originally was gonna vote you in that one, but something distracted me with adorable idk. i couldn't resist hopping onto a shiny new wagon.

also i don't really care about posts saying "i'll be back" or "i'll do it later". ok we'll talk later then.

I will say though, nice little rhyme there

life is marchin' on, do you feel that~? ♫ ♩

can you make some sorta readslist or something when you're back?

Oh right, I saw that post and that I was the intended vote but the sparkly vibes of the Adorable wagon grabbed your attention. And that's fine. I had to ask.

Townread: Hectic, Creature
Townlean: xofelf, DV, Petapan
Null: Datisi, Adorable
Scumlean: The Bulge, Ydrasse
Scumread: Reck

Simply unsure due to what feels like a lack of content: Sirius, Beeboy

[Aristophanes]

I see why DV voted me but what was your reason?

it was part me starting to think reck wasn't responding to being voted the way i feel scum would, and part dv saying you should be getting more attention combined with your popin. it was not a strong feel. one of my teammates did read the game and said they didn't like your approach to reck but this was after i made the vote

I kinda figured it would come down to a supporting pressure vote tbh. Again, makes sense with thread trajectory. Thanks!

[Datisi]

Townread: Hectic, Creature
Townlean: xofelf, DV, Petapan
Null: Datisi, Adorable
Scumlean: The Bulge, Ydrasse
Scumread: Reck

i wanna hear more about me, creature, and ydrasse, please. c:

[Aristophanes]

Townread: Hectic, Creature
Townlean: xofelf, DV, Petapan
Null: Datisi, Adorable
Scumlean: The Bulge, Ydrasse
Scumread: Reck

i wanna hear more about me, creature, and ydrasse, please. c:

Sure thing!

Creature is an easy one. They came in hard after their required time away and posted so many of my own thoughts I was really surprised how similarly we lined up. As well there's no agenda or badfeels from their posting leading me to townread them quite heavily. I look forward to more from them

Ydrasse has a bunch of moments (which I think I pointed out) that just ring as potentially scummy to me. The early alt-story interaction was an easy way to fluff their way into the game and avoid RVS. The weird "what do you like" question to Adorable was another of these moments and I feel like, as has been mentioned (by xof iirc) that it was an extremely lowball question that could either be aimed at getting a scummate to provide content or to pose as town that is asking questions to help lead us to a solve without actually doing anything. Those are the 2 from the top of my head.

Datisi, well, I want to scumread you for tone but I also am fairly certain I'm wrong. I think we're going to be at odds for a lot of this game but I also don't think being at odds is necessarily scummy. Like, you're not null because I don't have a read on you but because my read is entirely conflicted.

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE:

Probably going to start reevaluating

[Datisi]

frankly by now i forgot about the early alt thing or the fact you mentioned it. the reaction to "what do you like" i did remember, but mostly because i better remembered your reaction to my reaction to that.

Datisi, well, I want to scumread you for tone but I also am fairly certain I'm wrong. I think we're going to be at odds for a lot of this game but I also don't think being at odds is necessarily scummy. Like, you're not null because I don't have a read on you but because my read is entirely conflicted.

ok this is what i wanna talk about. and by talk about for now i guess i mean just throwing these same questions back at you, but come on you can't write something spicy like this and not elaborate. why is my tone scummy to you, and why are you at the same time certain you're wrong? why are you conflicted and how can i help you here?

[Creature]

Townread: Hectic, Creature
Townlean: xofelf, DV, Petapan
Null: Datisi, Adorable
Scumlean: The Bulge, Ydrasse
Scumread: Reck

i wanna hear more about me, creature, and ydrasse, please. c:

Kinda forgot about Ydrasse. She looks underwhelming this game.

[Creature]

beeboy is probably someone I wouldn't bother with rn. So the only significant viable scumread I have is Reckoner. Though, Ydrasse and Bulge also should be looked at.

[Creature]

For the record, I'm not just blatantly sheeping Ari. I already expressed my concerns about Reck and Bulge earlier.

[Creature]

Might be necessary to recheck my townread on Datish though. Still feel like putting them as town for now.