Sunny 2: Rules of Im-peachment - Over!

[Something_Smart]

The hypocrisy isn't lost. It seems like you have a very nice time antagonizing me.

Well, I'm not doing it when you're trying to hold a conversation with me. And I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to point things out (in a snarky way). I can stop being snarky if it's really annoying, but then I'll just be hitting you with a dry "You seem confident about this but earlier you said that confident people are dumb or scum" which I'm not sure is better.

[Noraa]

The hypocrisy isn't lost. It seems like you have a very nice time antagonizing me.

Well, I'm not doing it when you're trying to hold a conversation with me. And I'm not trying to be mean, I'm trying to point things out (in a snarky way). I can stop being snarky if it's really annoying, but then I'll just be hitting you with a dry "You seem confident about this but earlier you said that confident people are dumb or scum" which I'm not sure is better.

Or you could just stop cuz last I remember, you TR me. Is there a point in shading your TR like that?

[Cheetory6]

I was also pointing out something, not really sure why you think that was different from what you've been doing.

[Cheetory6]

Walk me through your headspace.
Do you feel like your approach this game feels like you're trying to parse people?
Because from where I'm standing, it feels like the entirety of your interaction has been asking people you already think are town questions.

I also just don't really understand why you would townlean Jake at this point when it hasn't done anything since the push on it stopped.

[Zaiden]

I'm going to take the controversial and unbrave stance of there being exact one mafia in the pile of Pink Ball/Spring Breeze and that can be an end of day sorting problem.

I'm not so confident there's exactly 1 mafia in that pile like you're saying. But I can buy into the idea that that there could be one one given the unusual intensity of their interactions and it's been bugging me since their first few interactions earlier in the game. I'm also down to dive deeper here though I think there's other cases that are wider in the open.

I haven't done a Jake ISOdive yet but it feels like its done nothing since it was pushed and it feels like Jake's trying to coast its way through the game.

I agree that Jake has been sitting back a bit now when the scrutiny shifted from them to me/Jingle. They've offered some takes which mainly consist of flinging dirt at myself and Jingle + less active players. That seems rather driven by survival as opposed to genuine scum hunting.

Why did you choose to go after me in particular?

Because I'm scared of Pooky

Your vote on Gamma wasn't great, and you were falling under the radar. Do you find me scummy for going after you?

No, I don't.

Why wouldn't you choose to go after someone who's been a little less contentful (like Clidd/Morning Tweet, for example.)

This is literally what I said about how they said 'Oh look wonder what PrivateI thinks' to draw away attention from himself and onto others earlier this game. He seems very content with going under the radar and trying to use other less active players to try and deflect attention from themselves. To me this is scummy. Though when others say that Jake usually seems suspicious and dies early as town, it makes me wonder if this is just how they usually are as town. Would need others more familiar with Jake to weigh in for their thoughts.

Jake and S_S are my highest priority sorts rn.

Also when you talk about wanting to focus Jake or S_S, what do you (and other people) generally make of the possibility that Cakez was trying to pocket me? Unwarranted paranoia from Team Team Team Team Team or genuine ground for that to be a possibility? I'm generally reading you as less scummy now but the way you haven't really engaged with that angle when I've spoken about it (you bad cop Cakez good cop scum buddy routine) is making me wonder if you're intentionally avoiding it.

[Something_Smart]

Is there a point in shading your TR like that?

Yeah. I can trust your motivations and still disagree with your arguments.

[Something_Smart]

I was also pointing out something, not really sure why you think that was different from what you've been doing.

"Let's pretend like you suddenly want to scumhunt (:" is not pointing out anything, it's being dismissive of my attempts to engage with you, especially since if I'm town I'm doing exactly what you want me to be doing and you're mocking me for doing it.

But whatever. We don't have to dwell on it. Just take my feedback that it was off-putting.

[Noraa]

Is there a point in shading your TR like that?

Yeah. I can trust your motivations and still disagree with your arguments.

You aren't disagreeing with my arguments. You are constantly bringing up something to make me look bad. Whether or not that's your original intention, I don't care currently. but if you TR me, stop doing that shit.

[Cheetory6]

@S_S

, well it seemed like you were trying to offbalance me pushing you with yet another question that doesn't really feel like you're trying to sort anything and is instead just like..
something that's immediately questionable looking but not scummy? But yeah I'm a little mean to my scumreads in a way that's probably not productive and I can try to ease that back.

I'm not so confident there's exactly 1 mafia in that pile like you're saying. But I can buy into the idea that that there could be one one given the unusual intensity of their interactions and it's been bugging me since their first few interactions earlier in the game. I'm also down to dive deeper here though I think there's other cases that are wider in the open.

Yeah I'm kind of at a place where when we're like halfway into the phase we should start bullying Pink Ball to post the case because he may otherwise just be coasting off of the promise of content that he gets to spend 6+ days preparing in advance.

I agree that Jake has been sitting back a bit now when the scrutiny shifted from them to me/Jingle. They've offered some takes which mainly consist of flinging dirt at myself and Jingle + less active players. That seems rather driven by survival as opposed to genuine scum hunting.

Yeah I'm down to vote there if S_S starts being town.

Also when you talk about wanting to focus Jake or S_S, what do you (and other people) generally make of the possibility that Cakez was trying to pocket me? Unwarranted paranoia from Team Team Team Team Team or genuine ground for that to be a possibility? I'm generally reading you as less scummy now but the way you haven't really engaged with that angle when I've spoken about it (you bad cop Cakez good cop scum buddy routine) is making me wonder if you're intentionally avoiding it.

I think from a tone standpoint that Cakez is hard to read, but I find it hard to believe that his engagement with me this game is fake and I don't really know if there's a good way for me to convey why to you because it's very much so based on my experience with him previously and I don't really think you would/should find that engaging.

[Cheetory6]

probably not productive

Or I guess it's kind of productive in a sorting-sense but probably not worth the added game tension.

[Something_Smart]

Walk me through your headspace.
Do you feel like your approach this game feels like you're trying to parse people?
Because from where I'm standing, it feels like the entirety of your interaction has been asking people you already think are town questions.

My approach until basically today had been to just kinda sit back and make random comments when something came to mind. This used to work for me; either I've gotten worse at it, or I've gotten better at replicating it as scum. And I do realize that it's kinda lazy; I generally haven't made much of an effort to get solid reads in the early game because they're always really bad.

So when I was being criticized for not hunting, I mean those criticisms were totally valid. They're certainly not alignment indicative, but it's seeming like I will have to do more to prove my alignment. Hence why I "suddenly want to scumhunt."

I also just don't really understand why you would townlean Jake at this point when it hasn't done anything since the push on it stopped.

As someone who is prone to doing nothing as town, why should I dislike that? I read his ISO, prompted by SB's weirdly curt nullread on him, and I thought it was towny.

[Cheetory6]

I guess my question is, do you think I'm your highest priority sort here?
Because that's part of why I find what you're choosing to question weird.

[Cheetory6]

So Jake's engagement this game doesn't feel survivalistic to you without the much needed added component of genuine scumhunting going along with it?
Because to me it seems like Jake was only active in response to the wagon and the actual substance of their votes/scumreads is kind of just not really there.

The drop in activity afterwards really does nothing to affect the reading of the early on reaction?

[Zaiden]

it's true i don't think i've been super on ball with the game so i combed back through and i think these takes are a lot truer to my heart. list isn't ordered.

- cheetory is a townread, even taking away the emotional reason which i don't think i should focus on anymore. he's generally invested, and i especially like how he said he was going to go v/la but couldn't help but come back to comment on things about the game.
- noraa i think is town. she's actually playing very similar to a game i hard scumread her in and she was town. this is also one of the reads infinity feels really good about so i am locking in
- spf; my teammate infinity says he mindmelds with her a lot, and i agree she's had good takes, but i don't think she's towntold enough for a townread. this maria post (1209) still pings me; i still think is too logic leapy, and she expresses a townread on mariar for it which i think is unwarranted. i don't *think* i'm misunderstanding the point, or at least am too far off
- pooky is my randsoultown. we played a game just before and he was a lot like this, and i'd think scum!pooky would be trying to control the gamestate/do something meaningful. he does know this, but i still feel he's town, i suppose. he just doesn't seem to care.
- morning tweet, i think is town for the confidence with the noraa read. i've played with scum!morning briefly and don't think she likes to make waves.
- jake is lhf, but should absolutely not be townread by any stretch of the imagination
- s_s, i am nullscumleaning for popping in at apparently the right moments to make jokes, but doesn't offer anything.
- sircakez has in general been pretty unafraid to give his opinions, and tonally reads as blunt town. maybe it's a soulread, i just think he's town
- zaiden; i liked his attempts to scumhunt with the conversations with his team members. i looked back and think i am probably putting too much stock into that emotional read so i am flipping here again. tonally town because i find him funny, but bias aside, he's probably a light townlean/null.
- gypx, i think is town. he's low effort solving, but still solving
- maria, on reflection, i can see being similar to pooky so i'm not that suspicious of her being put to the side as town for a lot of players. personally, i have no idea and i don't think my opinion matters on this
- pink ball, i'm pretty self conscious that i'm an attractive push for scum, but i don't think i can in good faith call that a scum push. otherwise content is a lot of asking questions and short comments which is pretty null.
- jingle, i still don't like his original noraa push. the points are nitpicky and generally reachy to come to the conclusion that noraa is scum. i do like (agree) with his reasoning behind the PR point noraa brought up though. 1477 i feel is still weak suppliment for a "very confident scumread" on noraa. the first question cheetory asked about noraa was a "this is more likely read," and the second one was just an inconsistency. i don't think he answered my question about the BoP.
- murdersunny; i have seen murdercat in other games though and he generally has a lot to say. the fact he's popped in a few times and said he's had nothing to say/nothing is happening feels strange because i almost feel like he wouldn't be able to contain his opinions as town if he's town. the change in playstyle is leantown, but it also lets him get away with not offering opinions. i'm fully open to looking at his case though

my team hasn't been around for this game, although infinity did say he was confident in noraa town, and he mindmelds with spf a while ago, and ydrasse said noraa was prob!town, which was also while ago

@Spring Breeze. Assuming Nora is usually like this in their other games Infinity seems a bit too confident on that read imo considering those things. I want you to ask Infinity why they feel confident and to give a better explanation.

I will ignore that mindmeld segment on SPF because I don't deal with that stuff very well. Yes, I do think that the townread from SPF onto MariaR seems like a leap in logic. However mafia is a game that requires those sorts of leaps in logic and we all take leaps in logics for our reads/thoughts and the leap seems to be made to try and engage with many other players in good faith. Do you have anything to say about anything else SPF has done so far and why it wouldn't give you town vibes?

On Pooky, do other people think scum!Pooky is more likely to sit back or more likely to control the game? I haven't sensed vibes from Pooky trying to control discourse, but I reckon there are other low key ways of controlling the game (really influencing 1-3 individuals and I get the feeling if Pooky was influencing anyone it would be Spring Breeze here) and forming your own bloc. I want more people to talk about Pooky like Spring Breeze does here because I'm not getting a good grasp of Pooky/Spring Breeze here and there's less discussion around them compared to Nora.

Morning - seems like an easy town/null read to sheep for people. Jake also an easy null/scum read for people.

If you actually nullscum S_S why not try to advocate a case on him or push him like Cheetory6 is doing?

In what way is Gypyx solving? I'm getting less solving vibes from Gypyx and more framing vibes. Could you go a bit deeper on your thoughts about Gypyx and why they seem good when it feels like the total opposite atm?

Hahahaha. MariaR the deadpan cynic being similar to that wholesome bundle of floof known as Pooky the Magical Bear. I couldn't think of a bigger contrast. But apparently it's a 'soulread'. Can't see the logic in this one but okay. MariaR hasn't been that active and I'm waiting for them to engage with me to get a better grasp of them.

For Pink Ball's proposal, I also don't think you are as attractive to push for scum compared to the other wagons available, but maybe that's just me confbiasing with how my own wagon played out. From what I can see Pink Ball applied pressure, didn't get the response they were looking for so is applying even more pressure, which makes sense to me. Why do you perceive yourself as an attractive wagon compared to other players in this game?

Interesting how you weren't nitpicky with posts about other players (apart from SPF) and didn't quote anyone else but then specifically nitpicky about quoting Jingle using a specific post here. Potentially premeditated SvS interaction where they discussed framing a specific post a particular way? Could you expand more on your Jingle read beyond that one specific post?

Overall I'm not convinced by this reads list. It doesn't go deep enough for the amount of content and interactions we've had across 60+ pages. However I do think this game has been overwhelming. And there could be deeper thoughts you didn't immediately express so that your list didn't get too bloated. So try to get back to me on the points I've raised if you can.

[Zaiden]

Also I want to clear this up once and for all. Could someone write me an Explain Like I'm 5 about soulread/mindmeld or is this a meme that's completely whooshed over my head?

[Noraa]

Assuming Nora is usually like this in their other games Infinity seems a bit too confident on that read imo considering those things. I want you to ask Infinity why they feel confident and to give a better explanation.

INFINITY IS FOREVER MY SOUL MASON

[Noraa]

Assuming Nora is usually like this in their other games Infinity seems a bit too confident on that read imo considering those things. I want you to ask Infinity why they feel confident and to give a better explanation.

INFINITY IS FOREVER MY SOUL MASON

AFTER YELLOWSTONE WE ARE BONDED MY SOUL ENERGY FOREVER AND EVER

[Cheetory6]

Also I want to clear this up once and for all. Could someone write me an Explain Like I'm 5 about soulread/mindmeld or is this a meme that's completely whooshed over my head?

Soulread is like
"I can feel this person's alignment deep within my soul"
and
mindmeld is like..
"me and this person we have combined our brains into an all powerful conglomerate and all of our opinions on the gamestate are aligned as a result of this"

[Zaiden]

Ok gypyx if you were in tenet and read any of posts, you should be locktowning me here and I don't expect anything less than that.

Nora, why do you expect Gypyx to be able to accurately locktown you here but hardly trust in anyone else? Is this a case of Gypyx having a great historical record of correctly reading you? Is Gypypx just differently built from the rest of us? If that was a joke that I didn't get ignore me.

[Zaiden]

Also I want to clear this up once and for all. Could someone write me an Explain Like I'm 5 about soulread/mindmeld or is this a meme that's completely whooshed over my head?

Soulread is like
"I can feel this person's alignment deep within my soul"
and
mindmeld is like..
"me and this person we have combined our brains into an all powerful conglomerate and all of our opinions on the gamestate are aligned as a result of this"

[Zaiden]

Assuming Nora is usually like this in their other games Infinity seems a bit too confident on that read imo considering those things. I want you to ask Infinity why they feel confident and to give a better explanation.

INFINITY IS FOREVER MY SOUL MASON

AFTER YELLOWSTONE WE ARE BONDED MY SOUL ENERGY FOREVER AND EVER

If Infinity is your 'soul mason' then what's your issue with Spring Breeze reading you as town? Is it more that you expect Infinity to townread you, but for Spring Breeze to be reluctant to agree on that opinion?

[Something_Smart]

I guess my question is, do you think I'm your highest priority sort here?
Because that's part of why I find what you're choosing to question weird.

I don't look at things that way. My sorting, especially this early on, consists of looking for things to talking about and then talking about them, not picking out people to sort and then finding things from those people to talk about.

And, I wasn't even trying to sort you there. I wanted to hear your reasoning on PB/SB so I could see whether I agreed with it, and if so, find out why you had decided not to pursue it, and if not, maybe convince you to change your mind.

[Noraa]

Ok gypyx if you were in tenet and read any of posts, you should be locktowning me here and I don't expect anything less than that.

Nora, why do you expect Gypyx to be able to accurately locktown you here but hardly trust in anyone else? Is this a case of Gypyx having a great historical record of correctly reading you? Is Gypypx just differently built from the rest of us? If that was a joke that I didn't get ignore me.

I blew up in tenet.

[Noraa]

If Infinity is your 'soul mason' then what's your issue with Spring Breeze reading you as town? Is it more that you expect Infinity to townread you, but for Spring Breeze to be reluctant to agree on that opinion?

Kanna is not Infinity.

[Zaiden]

spf; my teammate infinity says he mindmelds with her a lot, and i agree she's had good takes, but i don't think she's towntold enough for a townread. this maria post (1209) still pings me; i still think is too logic leapy, and she expresses a townread on mariar for it which i think is unwarranted. i don't *think* i'm misunderstanding the point, or at least am too far off

Does mind meld = towny and logic leap = scummy? I haven't really found either of those to be the case in my experience.

You might be onto something here, S_S.

With mind meld, soul reads and logic leap I'm starting to think we're all in some sports anime where when you go on to face against better teams or players, the normal sports shit you'd expect aren't there and it becomes a completely different game with superpowers, mind-reading and power of friendship or some shit.