Mafia 83 - Game Ended Scum Win!

[hasdgfas]

vote: Yaw

for not having played a game in forever.

[hasdgfas]

He's at -3 now. I think we can afford another vote before people start getting fidgety.

BM

BM, why do you have to act like scum?

[hasdgfas]

He's at -3 now. I think we can afford another vote before people start getting fidgety.

BM

BM, why do you have to act like scum?

It's not scummy to run players up in the random stage.

FoS: COW

If by 'run up' you mean bandwagon, then you're right. If you mean 'run up' as in lynch, yes it is. And it's how you're doing it, not what you're doing.

[hasdgfas]

@Battle Mage:

You didn't really answer my questions. I never said that I have an issue with random bandwagons; in fact, I'm actually

on

and pretty much

began

the wagon that you're attempting to drive. The thing I'm taking issue with is the fact that you mentioned that you actually want killa seven to claim. Why would you want someone to claim a role this early in the game?

It's a wonderful way to start discussion

And it

is

too early to classify someone as a lurker. This game just began yesterday. How could someone possibly be considered a lurker after a day's worth of content?

He's a chronic lurker, that's how.

[hasdgfas]

Gee, thanks for clarifying, Battle Mage.

he can still answer, these were just my opinions.

[hasdgfas]

unvote, vote alvinz

Any reason for voting BM?

[hasdgfas]

unvote, vote alvinz

Any reason for voting BM?

No reason. Random.

you do realize we had actually started a little bit of talking and random voting there wasn't really useful at all, right?

[hasdgfas]

Which part?

BM just strikes me as a mobster, you seem a little anxious, and Yaw a little rambunctious. Why I'm not sure alvinz is mafia-ish, is because he seems like a nervous townie.

Again, it's too early to tell, a sample of only a few posts is useless -.-

That's fine. I just wanted to get a feel for what types of tells you were using this early on to generate your reads.

Question: How do you know how many scum we're dealing with here? How do you know we're not dealing with multiple scum groups?

Could you explain where you see that post as saying Jebus knows how many scum there are?

[hasdgfas]

Could you explain where you see that post as saying Jebus knows how many scum there are?

Sure. Jebus's first post mentioning her thoughts about the scum team:

A semi-educated guess as to this games mafia would be BM, Reclusion, and Yaw, though I doubt that'd really lead to much.

The above quote implies a three-person scum team.

I'd have to disagree on that, actually. I sometimes state that I think the mafia are X and Y when I think there are 3, just because I don't know who else could be a part of that group.

[hasdgfas]

From the look of it, it seems to be mere OMGUS. Reclusion's reaction is a bit jumpy- in saying that Alvinz put me near to a lynch, which is in fact, not the case. But Hasdgfas caught my attention with his post 95.

Unvote, Vote: Hasdgfas

BM

Please explain what caught your attention as I really have no idea.

[hasdgfas]

Welcome Qwints.

Iam might have a point, it does seem to be contradictive, but I didn't find it scummy when I first saw it.

I do agree that i've not been getting a good feel from Hasd.

Could you explain that not good feeling or do you just like agreeing with people who have no reasoning without even giving your reasoning.

[hasdgfas]

Netman, that was a whole lot of nothing. Things have been said, so why don't you have any thoughts on them?

[hasdgfas]

But if you want a comment Hasdgfas, why is Battle Mage voting for you in post 169? There seems to be little rhyme or reason with that vote. If Battle Mage really wanted to lynch you, why not provide a little more justification than your post saying random voting isn't helpful after real discussion has started. He's not giving enough impetus to start a bandwagon, so why vote at all?

Hasdgfas, I know you asked Battle Mage to clarify the reason for voting you, but why do

you

think Battle Mage is voting for you?

I really have no idea why he is voting for me.

And don't you know you're supposed to bring up that somebody made a contentless post during lylo, to engineer a town loss by lynching an innocent person? You don't have any idea how to play as scum do you?

what the heck is this?

[hasdgfas]

Netman, if you wanted to know the reason for something, shouldn't you be going to the source (i.e. the person who actually

placed

the vote a.k.a. Battle Mage)? By questioning hasdgfas the way you are, you look like you're trying to instigate something between BM and hasdgfas rather than actually figure out the reason for the vote.

I have a

very

good reason for asking the question the way I did. I find "distancing" votes made in a vacuum suspicious. If hasdgfas can't point to any of his posts he made that could have been suspicious, he's going to implicate Battle Mage in distancing. And if Battle Mage comes up scum, the question will come up of why did Battle Mage put an obviously ineffective vote on hasdgfas?

Wait, seriously? what?

[hasdgfas]

Wait, seriously? what?

You heard me. Why is Battle Mage voting for you? Clearly I'd like to hear his take on it too, but first I'd like to hear yours.

And if there's no reason whatsoever for Battle Mage to vote for you, I'd like to hear your reasoning on why he could possibly be doing it.

Why the heck would you want my reasoning for his vote before his reasoning for his vote? That doesn't make any sense at all. Seriously.

[hasdgfas]

At the risk of answering for Cow, this is a pointless line of questioning. BM has already said exactly why he's voting for Cow -- he found something in post 95. (You'd have to ask BM what precisely he found in post 95. Asking Cow to mind read for you isn't likely to be productive.)

I'm not asking him to mind-read. I'm asking him if he thinks there's a reason Battle Mage voted for him.

That's not what you asked. You asked why I think BM voted me. That's a completely different question which is also a terrible question and it doesn't make sense why you would ask me that.

Yaw, given that avoiding a question is just another way of answering a question, and that hasdgfas twice avoided the question rather than simply say, "I don't know, seems scummy to me", I don't think the questioning was pointless. hasdgfas responded in one of the ways I thought was a possibility. And I made of a note of it. And assuming hasdgfas or Battle Mage is still alive come day 3 or 4, I'm sure these posts are going to be quoted.

Avoided the question? I answered the question then you started talking about distancing, which made no sense at all.

unvote, vote Netman

He seems to be looking for any reason to implicate me and BM together, including the fact that I don't know why BM is voting me. This is quite ridiculous and scummy.

[hasdgfas]

unvote, vote alvinz

Any reason for voting BM?

No reason. Random.

you do realize we had actually started a little bit of talking and random voting there wasn't really useful at all, right?

I find it rather fishy that Has literally repeated the obvious in a really condescending way. I'm always unnerved by people who make a determined effort to be seen acting in the interests of the town.

And Netman could well be bussing here, which is duely noted.

BM

So you're suspicious of me because I did something that was in the best interest of the town, but I apparently did it "condescendingly"? Aggressive is not the same as condescending.

[hasdgfas]

unvote, vote alvinz

Any reason for voting BM?

No reason. Random.

you do realize we had actually started a little bit of talking and random voting there wasn't really useful at all, right?

I find it rather fishy that Has literally repeated the obvious in a really condescending way. I'm always unnerved by people who make a determined effort to be seen acting in the interests of the town.

And Netman could well be bussing here, which is duely noted.

BM

So you're suspicious of me because I did something that was in the best interest of the town, but I apparently did it "condescendingly"? Aggressive is not the same as condescending.

No, you were definitely being condescending, in my book.

And no, im not suspicious because you did something protown. You DID nothing! But, you said something which the only real result of was to try and paint you in a protown light. Which is scummy.

BM

Maybe you thought it was condescending, but that wasn't the intention.
Also, what? How is what I said just to try to look protown? I really hate people who random vote after discussion has started and I almost always get on them about it. How is it scummy?

[hasdgfas]

Vote: Hasdgfas

Aside from the fact that your name is hard to pronounce (>.<)

Cow is fine.

Post 207+210+198 - Pretty much what Netman said.

As far as I can tell, Netman was only saying that because he thought I didn't answer the question when I actually did. That just undermines his entire attack on me. In addition, it's terrible logic all the way through. In fact:

unvote, vote: Jebus

If you want the reason, it's because it's a lot scummier to agree with terrible logic than have the terrible logic.

Post 41 (and 43 as followup) - This is the first post that makes me think BM and Has are related in some way.

So I answered a question. I wasn't totally sure it was directed at BM when I answered it, plus, it should have been directed at the whole town because BM wasn't the only person to think like that.

Post 170 - Seems faked to me. Could just be the mood of this search, though :/

Me questioning a vote on me seems faked? what? mood of the search? What are you talking about?

Noted: Post 121+126 - Goes after Reclusion

Going after is a very strong term for what I did.

Noted: Post 194 - A one liner that is both ironic and flat-out wrong.

Ironic? what? And it was absolutely correct. Read his post again. It does absolutely nothing for the game. It's just a very long "hi I'm still here" post.

So changing my list a bit, I think the mafia includes Hasd, BM, Reclusion, and possibly Yaw. And I'll probably look at BM in a little bit, and Reclusion/Yaw as well.

Please try to remember that A) we haven't even found 1 mafia member yet, B) not everyone who seems a little suspicious is scum, and C) just because people are talking a lot doesn't mean they're scum. Is there a reason you're looking at 4 of the more talkative people as scum?

[hasdgfas]

Battlemage, I feel like you're trying to start a fight. Those who have played with Battlemage, is this a scummy move?

ABSOLUTELY IT IS.

*sigh* do we have a DGB alt in this game too?

[hasdgfas]

Unvote; Vote: Jebus

because it's the best we have to go on for Day 1.

Why, exactly is it the best we have to go on, Gnome?

[hasdgfas]

Oh, and to make it count,

Vote: Hasdgfas

Please respond to my defense.

[hasdgfas]

Mod:

I voted for Jebus in post 230.

[hasdgfas]

unvote

for now and

vote:alvinz

[hasdgfas]

Option 1: I claim townie. I still get lynched.

If you were a doctor, how would this be an option? Why would you even be thinking about "options" for claiming?

I know that, as a general rule, you don't lynch claimed docs on D1, but I really want to make an exception here.

It'd be an option so that I'm not a night-kill target, though it leaves me more likely to get lynched.

And I'm not worried about being night-killed because I can protect myself.

Oh, really? Please, go on. Is there an explanation behind how or why you can self-protect?

[hasdgfas]

Well, alvinz, first off:

Ugh, crap internet. 12 am now so post tomorrow if the internet works. Stupid comcast

Where's that post that I assumed was large because of how this was worded?

Also, you haven't really said anything in your posts. I read through them, and you don't say a whole lot in regards to who you think is scummy, as far as I can tell.

[hasdgfas]

Okay, turns out I can't protect myself. Damn.

...

Anyway, who said that I would make a huge post?

alvinz. Read the post I quoted in my previous post. Because you decided to make a post to say you would post tomorrow, I assumed it would be large.

[hasdgfas]

so, why, exactly, are there 3 votes on BM? I still don't understand that.

[hasdgfas]

I will have no access on Saturday, so expect something of a moderate size from me tomorrow at some point so I can get it in before deadline.

[hasdgfas]

unvote, vote netman

A much better choice.

[hasdgfas]

hmm, I think I need to reread after that.

[hasdgfas]

Hascow is the first to vote for Yaw.

yaw and I are buddies and he hasn't played a game in forever so I random voted him.

Hascow was the L-3 vote against Jebus. Yaw was the L-2 vote.

So we were on the same bandwagon. I'm pretty sure others were on it too.

Yaw's summary post after Jebus's doc claim:

cow -- Lots of posts. All but one are one-liners. Really unfairly targeted by Jebus and Netman. Doesn't mean he isn't scum, but solidifying the alignment of one of the other two would make that a lot clearer.

This isn't much to go on, but Hascow has been pretty quiet.

FOS: Hascow

So you have all of no case on me, from what I can tell. I haven't been any quieter than some people, so why am I being isolated

Here are my questions about last night
1: What would have happened if Yaw roleblocked Jebus, Jebus protected player x, mafia tried to kill player x and Yaw was killed by a sk? In other words, are the results consistent with Jebus being a doc?

2: Is there any reason to expect a vig instead of a sk? Also is there a possibility besides those two that I'm not seeing?

3: I agree with iamusername that Jebus should say who they protected with. That seems like it would provide useful information. Is there any reason this would not be a good thing to claim?

1) Why are we discussing night action possibilities when we have no idea about anything?
2) um, no reason to suspect one over the other. Why does it matter? Why are we setup speculating?
3) This would only be good information to tell if we have a good reason for it and know what information we're trying to get.

[hasdgfas]

Alvinz, what do you think of Jebus claim right now?

I'd like to hear this too.

@qwintz: Do you mind actually commenting on the defense I made with regards to your accusations? Did you change your mind, did it have no effect, did it strengthen your thoughts? why did you completely ignore it?

[hasdgfas]

ok.

vote: alvinz

[hasdgfas]

He claimed scum. We will lynch him. If he's town, he's an idiot. If he's scum, then we get rid of him.

You should be voting for alvinz because he

claimed scum

. How many other good lynches of this variety will we have?
We can look at panzer/netman tomorrow. Alvinz should be the lynch.

[hasdgfas]

If you took my claim scum seriously, then you are scummy or scum. Hasdfgas is scum and Jebus.

False, false, false, false, false. You don't claim scum as town ever. No matter what. It's one of the stupidest things you can do. You still deserve to be lynched for claiming scum, power role or not.

[hasdgfas]

So you're saying that I'm town and I shouldn't claim scum, and since I claimed scum though I'm town, then I should be lynched regardless. You just want to get rid of a power role don't you? Anti-town.

Unvote, Vote: hasdgfas

No, I want to get rid of someone who is anti-town, you. You should not claim scum, whether or not you are town. It's the least town thing I can do. I cannot trust anything you say for the rest of the game because of it.

[hasdgfas]

FoS: chazworthington

Why did you feel it necessary to mention jesters yesterday?

[hasdgfas]

Vote:Cow

possible SK

What makes you say that, and why would you think it was me?

[hasdgfas]

Nothing to do with Flavor. Let's just say I have Role info.

That "role info" is flat out wrong then.

[hasdgfas]

FoS: chazworthington

Why did you feel it necessary to mention jesters yesterday?

What was your first reaction when Alvinz wasn't defending himself and later claimed to be scum? That sounded pretty good play for a jester to me.

I assumed he was an idiot. I was right. I policy lynch anyone who claims scum, unless I know there's a jester in the game.
Jesters are almost never in closed games, so you always assume there aren't any. Discussion of them just distracts the town and is, frankly, stupid.

[hasdgfas]

Panzer, did you get my name in your result? (I don't need you to claim your role, but this is an important question)

[hasdgfas]

I'm not Claiming, and I targeted cow so i'm assuming the info is on you.

You need to claim if you're going to be this cryptic. We can't trust you at this point because you could be anything.
The reason I asked that question is because we have the possibility of bus drivers/redirectors/framers, and when you don't get the name in the result, you have to be aware of that possibility and not go so readily off of your results right away.

[hasdgfas]

I think this game is slowly dying...

You posting that doesn't help the situation, Xtoxm.

[hasdgfas]

Roleblocker

this does not make me SK at all. Why the heck would you jump on me immediately upon day starting with no info at all?

[hasdgfas]

Also this is a large normal, we're not gonna have bus driver's or redirectors. And framing doesn't work here.

bus drivers fit as normal. So do framers, for that matter.

[hasdgfas]

1 kill: they aren't gonna kill chaz twice.. Therefore I blocked a kill.

*bzzt* re-read the kill flavor. It looks like iam was killed in addition to his suicide.

[hasdgfas]

Doubt it

Then why the two-part death flavor?

[hasdgfas]

2. If there are only two players who can stop a mafia kill
and If the mafia tried to kill someone night one
and If Panzer is telling the truth about being a roleblocker who blocked Alvinz
and If Jebus is a doctor.
then chaz is town.

Can you elaborate? I have no idea how you can get that.

[hasdgfas]

I still don't understand how you can say that. What assumptions are you making that lead you to that? I don't see logical steps.

[hasdgfas]

In Yaw's list of players D1, he mentioned that Cow was unjustly targeted D1. That might be the closest thing we have to Yaw defending another player.

I find that scum more often defend townies than their partners. Have I actually done anything scummy to make you think I'm scum? Or are you just thinking that based on dead scum "defending me" and Panzer's terrible "info" on me?

[hasdgfas]

Hasdgfas

seems to be active, but nothing note worthy to this point.

214 - vote on netman (good)
230 - OMGUS vote on Jebus (weak) good point about more active players being seen as scummy though.
286 - unvotes doc claim, switches to alvinz (reason excluded)
336 - switches to gnome (again reasons excluded). Impending deadline is not a free pass for scummy votes.
365 - good response to qwints

Current read: high scum chance. Speculation that he may be SK might actually let him live longer. Lack of knowing if Iamuser was killed twice muddies this. Actions have been scummy - mainly he has been active, but content is low and votes lack solid reasoning. I have no previous game experience to know if this is normal town play from him.

D2 lynch:
Alvinz - Panz, Xtoxm, Jebus, Cow, Iamuser, Alvinz
analysis - If we assume at least 1 scum voted here, only Xtoxm and cow are not claimed protective roles. Xt gave no reason and Cow jumped on when the train was at max speed.

230: It was not a fricking OMGUS vote! I had solid reasons for it. Just because I voted someone who voted me doesn't make it OMGUS!
336: I never voted for gnome. I have no idea what you're trying to say here.
"content is low": What exactly do you mean by that? I try to have all of my posts contain content, whether they're one line or 5 paragraphs. You can have just as much content in one line as in 5 paragraphs.
"votes lack solid reasoning": Please expand upon this idea.
You seriously cannot call me scummy for jumping on alvinz... He CLAIMED SCUM! If someone claims scum, everyone should immediately vote for them no matter what they say afterwards.

[hasdgfas]

I never said the action of you voting for alvinz was scummy, so not sure why you are defensive there. Your vote on his wagon stands out because other on there are either dead or claimed power.

You assumed there was at least 1 scum. You mentioned me as one of two people who weren't either dead or a claimed power role. Of course I'm going to defend myself.

Also, not giving reasons when you vote isn't scummy in and of itself. Refusing to give a reason when called out on it is. I was never called out on it, because every vote had good backing.

Asking "minor" questions can be a great way of scumhunting. Active lurking? seriously? The only posts I've made that I would consider active lurking were at the very beginning of the game. Short posts do not active lurking make. Asking questions is a great way of getting reactions to look at later.

[hasdgfas]

I could believe no scum on the alvinz wagon. I could also believe Xtoxm as scum. Alvinz claimed scum. Every townie should have immediately voted for him.

It doesn't make it scummy to not give reasons with your vote though. It's more a null tell.

I haven't done a formal analysis of responses, but I definitely have done a mental analysis of how my thoughts on people have been affected.

my scumhunting method on day 3? You really expect scumhunting after the second post of the day was Panzer claiming role info on me? That's just silly.

I understand why he would think what he does, bionic, especially since he claimed RB. If he had claimed a true info role, trust me, I would have voted him. RB, on the other hand, is not really a true info role. Plus, it's Panzer. I know him well enough to know that he gets too aggressive over nothing. I was really shocked he had role info against me, but he was so sure of it that I knew he wasn't lying. Therefore, I was trying to figure out how he could have info on me, and I assumed it was another role of some sort. I have to say that I didn't assume something this stupid though.

[hasdgfas]

Not to give him an out, but SSK said "has" replaced directly after he posted the scene. I think he could have sent an action himself.

Thank you, Xtoxm, for answering before Panzer did and thus losing our only chance of actually catching him in any sort of lie.........

[hasdgfas]

If it hasn't been mentioned already I'm VLA until Friday. I
ll get everything sorted out by then. Sorrry!

If you're V/LA until Friday, move the deadline later.

[hasdgfas]

Guys, I think voting Panzer for pressure is fine, but we already have a dead mafia RB. Unless you think Panzer is lying about his claim in some way, we shouldn't lynch him.

[hasdgfas]

...Have you not been following..?

yes, I've been following. I don't like a Panzer lynch for a couple reasons:
A) His actions today make sense with claiming he targeted me, especially since it's Panzer.
B) We have a dead mafia RB. I don't think we have two anti-town blocking roles and I think he is what he claimed.
C) He hasn't come back to defend himself yet. He needs to do that.

[hasdgfas]

What do you make of the night-actions?

Panzers? What about them?

[hasdgfas]

You're not paying attention.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 17#1319217

He said this after Panzer claimed to know what his role did N1.

and? I see a way it doesn't make a difference. I want Panzer to come in and post before making a decision.

[hasdgfas]

B) We have a dead mafia RB. I don't think we have two anti-town blocking roles and I think he is what he claimed.

Why do you believe his claim?

Between Yaw making a last minute push for Jebus over Netman D1 then Panser disappearing in this game after SSK's statement, I think there is a pretty good chance he is scum. He's posted in other games after that statement.

I am still waiting to hear from him at the request of the town.

I know Panzer pretty well. I've modded him in two games and I talk to him out-of-game about stuff too. His actions make sense to me as a roleblocker with what I know of him.

[hasdgfas]

Ok. Guys(mostly bionic, but qwintz too) here's my question. Have I done anything scummy or is this based on role speculation and night choices? If the latter, please look for what I've done that's scummy before you vote for me.

@qwintz: The mafia killed and I was blocked, so the likelihood of me being mafia

increases

? Explain, if you would.

I don't like qwintz's mason claim at the very beginning of the day. Also, did you breadcrumb at all?

[hasdgfas]

I'd like to hear Reclusion say something about this claim.

I also would like to note that we've had a lover pair already. I'm not sure how likely masons are with lovers in the same game, especially at this size.

qwintz, I'd like to know why you claimed so early.

[hasdgfas]

I didn't think there was an obvious target today, so I wanted to focus the attention on the four players I saw as having the biggest chance of being scum. I also wanted to avoid the possibility of the day slowing down the way it did on day 3.

and how does claiming do that? Why couldn't you do it some other way?

[hasdgfas]

@chaz: let's not assume qwintz and reclusion are telling the truth. How does that change your thoughts?

[hasdgfas]

They're also unconfirmed according to qwintz, so we can't just clear them both for claiming mason.

[hasdgfas]

Ok, we had lovers that were both town. Do we really think both masons are town?

[hasdgfas]

look bionic, I questioned the claim immediately upon it. I'm not going to take a claim at face value this late, especially a scummy claim like that immediately upon day starting. I'm not going to ignore them as possible scum because of a claim of unconfirmed masons as soon as day started. I've been nearly burned by that before, so when there's an iffy claim like that, of course I'm not going to look away. It has nothing to do with wanting to expand the field of suspects. Also, how is that scummy?

[hasdgfas]

Let me clarify. Reclusion knows from role info that I am town. I do not know from role info that Reclusion is. We can talk during the day and during the night. We have not talked much because he hasn't been here a lot.

Day

and

night? One-way confirmations? really?

[hasdgfas]

lol, I just noticed we have the same mod in this game as that game. Case closed.

were there also lovers in that game?

[hasdgfas]

asking for justification on all votes at lylo =/= defending someone.

How do you know it's lylo?

[hasdgfas]

asking for justification on all votes at lylo =/= defending someone.

How do you know it's lylo?

Chaz and I both discuss this recently. Please keep up.

humor me.

[hasdgfas]

asking for justification on all votes at lylo =/= defending someone.

How do you know it's lylo?

Chaz and I both discuss this recently. Please keep up.

humor me.

I am not going to facilitate your inability to read the posts previously made.

I read it. I want you to say it again.

[hasdgfas]

lol, I just noticed we have the same mod in this game as that game. Case closed.

were there also lovers in that game?

@cow: Why are you focused on this game's setup rather than scumhunt? Who do you think is scum?

this is still scumhunting. It might not be orthodox scumhunting, but trust me, I'm definitely formulating thoughts here.
Here's a question for everyone:
What do you think of qwintz's claim? Why do you think he decided to claim right when day started with no pressure on him at all?

[hasdgfas]

Question: Would you prefer a Reclusion replacemnt at the moment or a modkill?

replacement. Modkill will change the entire game.

[hasdgfas]

I'd be ok with a lynch. Being that Reclusion is mason it removes the possibility that she is SK (or atleast, I think it's safe to assume that), and I can see the mod having the unconfirmed mason as scum for the second time he does it.

I've had a bad feeling about Hasd all game, but he's looking better lately.

Why are you ok with a lynch of someone who's not here to defend themselves?

[hasdgfas]

If I think someone is scum, what difference does it make if they are here or not?

Already claimed, too.

there's much more to defending themselves than claiming, Xtoxm.

[hasdgfas]

@Cow: Can you please answer my question in post 640?

Sorry, missed the question earlier(and technically it wasn't a question).

I'd like bionic to state why he thinks it's LyLo instead of just following your logic. It's not necessarily not believing it, it's that I'm a bit wary of someone who so readily followed another's logic

[hasdgfas]

WHY DO WE HAVE A DEADLINE OVER A HOLIDAY WEEKEND? Gah.

I'm going to be V/LA from the middle of tomorrow through sunday

vote: killa seven

Also, why haven't we had any news of a replacement when we wanted one from the start of the day?

killa seven has gone from annoying lurker to scummy because of how much nothing he's posted.

[hasdgfas]

Also any support of modkill for K7?

I don't think players should have any influence over a modkill.

If we were to choose modkill, we are choosing to end the game.

If we want K7 gone, we should lynch him. He was allowed to live this long, so the mod should not bail the players out. If we let him continue his meta as his peers, then he has every right to play it within the rules.

If he broke a rule, then modkill.

If he has not, then I would say modkill is not called for.

:goodposting:

[hasdgfas]

Someone unvote so i can claim.

if you know you're at L-1, just claim. Don't continue to stall. Seriously...

[hasdgfas]

ok, this is probably LyLo, so nobody vote. I'm going to read up a bit.

[hasdgfas]

We can't go on without Reclusion confirming a claim. We need a replacement.

this too

[hasdgfas]

How do people feel about a mass claim?

might as well at this point, IMO.

[hasdgfas]

townie here.

[hasdgfas]

Mod: we can't do anything without a replacement. Please get one

[hasdgfas]

Lawrencelot, as I've told you. I already claimed that we 2 are the masons and that you know I'm town, but I don't know your alignment.

Please confirm this.

/headdesk

FoS: qwints

[hasdgfas]

???

I've already made the claim in thread. I've already messaged it to him. In what scenario does this make me more likely to be scum?

I will answer this after Lawrence answers.

[hasdgfas]

Now, can anyone tell me why what qwints said is scummy, before I say why?

[hasdgfas]

Now, can anyone tell me why what qwints said is scummy, before I say why?

It could be seen as scummy if he wasn't obvious town. In order to convince me he is scum, you have to convince me he meta'd the mod and found a role he has used in his games before, but no other mods typically do.

I'm not really trying to say he's scum, because I haven't seen enough scummy things from him to think he's scum, but he did something really, really, really stupid that I had to call him out on at the very least.

Xtoxm's blatant OMGUS of bionic is probably the single scummiest thing I've seen him do all game. I need to reread him and then I will probably vote for him.

[hasdgfas]

That's just BS.

OMGUS is the ONLY thing anyone can do, and SHOULD do in lylo.

3 person lylo, yes, 5 person, not necessarily

[hasdgfas]

Hazcow, everyone has posted. Can you explain what was so scummy about what I did?

you gave him the answer to your own question. If his story doesn't match yours, we know one of you is lying, and it's probably him, but the fact that you said "Confirm this thing that I said" gives him an out. It's like telling your scumbuddy what your fakeclaim was and telling him not to screw it up.

[hasdgfas]

Read up until page 20,

would like to note that Xtoxm's play has been surprisingly protown considering my meta on him.

I found this a bit interesting, actually. Lawrence, what about his play seemed protown to you?

Also, Lawrencelot still hasn't said

anything

game-related. It's as though he's trying to just sneak by.

[hasdgfas]

Has - please provide your opinion on both myself and lawrence and the likelihood of either being scum from your perspective.

well, I'll answer this question because my post isn't really answering that.

I think Lawrencelot is scum. I think it's you who have been saying that Lawrence is probably town because SSK used the same roles in his other game. That's pretty much the definition of outguessing the mod, and should not be used to say he's doing the same thing again. I'd honestly expect him to switch it up the second time so that people do what you did and are wrong, but that's not the main reason.

Lawrence hasn't said

anything

and is trying to just slide by without making himself a target just because I've been such an easy target.

I don't remember Reclusion doing anything scummy because I don't remember Reclusion doing anything either. I suppose I could try to do a PBPA of Reclusion, but I can't do one on Lawrencelot because he hasn't said anything.

I don't think you're scum because I haven't seen you do anything scummy. I'm frustrated that you have been going after me since you replaced in, but I'm not feeling ulterior motives from you.

[hasdgfas]

focus on qwints and reclusion. I can understand suspicions of reclusion from a game mechanic standpoint of not outguessing the mod. I think the suspicion of qwints is where I felt most uncomfortable. It also seemed like you kept mentioning them as possible scum without outlining any kind of case to show either as probable scum.

It was a terrible claim. There was zero reason for it in that situation, and I often keep suspicion on people who claim in terrible situations even when I shouldn't. The qwints FoS yesterday was reflex seeing someone do something really, really scummy. It wasn't really a "I think you're scum" FoS. It was a "Don't ever do that again" FoS.

next to zero suspicion of xtoxm until he was on the block. Maybe it is my extensive game experience with him over the past few weeks, but he strayed from his town meta. Either way, dwindling numbers should have required a look at him as potential scum.

I felt there were other higher priority targets. I'm not going to go after someone that I think is lower priority than someone else, and Xtoxm wasn't as high priority for me, although he should have been.

Remembering back to d3, my suspicions peaked when you seemed to accept that Panj was a town role blocker and never once suspected he could be lying. Now I understand you know him and there is a chance he would try to block you if he had a role. Maybe we have different reactions when we are town and somebody claims a role which seems to incriminate us. My first reaction is generally that the player is lying.

I've modded Panzer in one of my games and I think I've played with him before, so his actions seemed consistent with what I know of him, even though he was completely and totally wrong.

but he only played one day and it was our shortest day, right?

That shouldn't really make a difference. Someone replacing in should be ready to throw out their thoughts immediately


I'll take a look at Reclusion and see what I can find with everything that's happened.

[hasdgfas]

5) I think bio is protown, he's been acting protown, and should he be scum I'm willing to lose from such a good opponent

First off, I'd like to say this. Bionic, you played very well, and had me fooled. Well done.


Now, my complaints.

The modding in this game was absolutely horrible.

The first thing is that in the first post, I can't tell who replaced whom, and that is extremely important in the game, to remember who is for whom.

Next, you changed Rule 14 to say that you would post votecounts when asked, yet later you decided to say that we "still need one more for a vote count". What, exactly, was that supposed to be?

Vote counts day 1 were all right, but we got all of 1 vote count the rest of the game from you, which is completely unacceptable for a mod.

Next, not giving replacers what their predecessor has done is terrible. Almost everyone will ask for it, so why not give it to them anyway?

Why did you ask whether or not to modkill? That's supposed to be a mod decision. Always look for a replacement first.

When you were searching for a replacement for Reclusion, you didn't post in the Replacements Thread. How are we supposed to believe that you were searching for a replacement when you didn't post in a place specifically for that?

Deadlines should

NEVER

be over a holiday break. You had one during Thanksgiving break, and if it went that long, on New Year's Eve as well. Why? Sure, it might "fit your formula", but actually think about that day first.

You just disappeared and had the backup mod take over for a bit, then showed back up, and still made the backup post a vote count. I thought you had forgotten about this game, in all honesty.

I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting, but I was really angry about this modding for the entire game, because it ruined what could have been a good game. I stopped caring partway through, because it seemed like the mod didn't care, and if he doesn't care about his own game, why should I?

[hasdgfas]

I think I was a little too offended by Hascow going after me so hard after the claim.

Yeah, well, I really didn't like the claim. And it is really hard when someone's attacking you. Trust me, I know. You just have to think about where they're coming from and whether they seem to have the town's best interest in mind. It's very hard to do, as I found out here by completely misreading bionic, but it's important to remember that not everyone knows your alignment.

[hasdgfas]

Yeah, I guess maybe the end length of the game isn't the main indicator.

It's definitely not the main indicator. I've read old games that were 9 pages long and ended in town winning, so it's more the quality of information than the quantity. I think people are getting too cautious and saying "long days help the town" as opposed to "better information helps the town"

[hasdgfas]

Why am I banned from you're games?

Why did people buy my "scum" claim?

if you claim scum, you should immediately be lynched. No matter what. Nobody should trust anything you say ever once you claim scum.