Mini Normal 2181 | College Basketball Players | Game Over

[fferyllt]

DGB that's some seriously simplistic thinking around protecting tonight.

[fferyllt]

DGB that's some seriously simplistic thinking around protecting tonight.

You do better

If I were doc, I would totally spread some wifom about where it's safe for scum to kill right now. You may be right about Prism, but you're at the point where you're calling everything he posts scummy even when there is town reasoning to post it.

[fferyllt]

this game is so fucking hard.

[fferyllt]

yeah my cats (deceased) would hit the end of the leash and explode in 8 directions. the key is supposed to be not letting them get to the end of the leash, but I had NO success with that.

[fferyllt]

I expected Pooky was going to come back and case me some more.

guess not.

you called it gross

At least you're not claiming I called YOU gross now.

[fferyllt]

sigh

[fferyllt]

It's too late for pocketing me. I'm way way out there in paranoia land.

[fferyllt]

I'm holding onto my prism townread with broken fingernails.

and notsci is probs at work but my heart is breaking anyway.

[fferyllt]

I'm holding onto my prism townread with broken fingernails.

I mean you're right but literally why, AFAIK you haven't read a single scumgame of mine

You gave me a scumgame of yours to read.

I'm not falling down meta rabbit holes this game, and I still think you're the kind of player that metaing you within an inch of your life wouldn't be all that helpful.

If I'm wrong, then tlaloc help me if I don't figure it out.

[fferyllt]

I mean it's less skepticism of metaing in the specific tells or habits sense but more that you're not really wondering about range at all. There's another game where I bussed 3 days in a row into 3 way elo with two town vengefuls

and selfvoted

sigh. I've always expected your range to be very, very wide.

unlike mine! I'm an extremely townsided player.

Did you intentionally set up that particular elo early on?

[fferyllt]

I got a PM from the mod that benhalkum is a FN. Not phrased quite that way. Included a phrase about his alignment.

I half expected Prism to be alive.

[fferyllt]

Because I'm town.

[fferyllt]

Who's scum?

[fferyllt]

Pooky or Vax scum mean PR or goon.

[fferyllt]

two different worlds.

and yeah, I don't want to be here tomorrow if we're wrong.

still think way too much about Empire's mini.

[fferyllt]

Vax :/

[fferyllt]

Pooky or Vax scum mean PR or goon.

Vax scum can only happen in the 3 goon world. same with notsci, but if he's scum he snowed the absolute fuck out of me day early on.

pooky scum can happen in either world. same with me from an external POV.

I feel like worrying about which world we're in is pointless.

And then I get sucked into a hall of mirrors about the mod-meta pooky dug up. :/

pedit we have to stop meeting like this!

[fferyllt]

yeah, that's where I'm at. I don't believe he's scum and if he is, then major hattip.

at elo whoever's at that table needs to rethink everything.

[fferyllt]

part of me doesnt want to be blamed for losing

welcome to my mind.

[fferyllt]

Yeah. I think you're town.

[fferyllt]

I don't think Vax fakes the sense of fatalism

[fferyllt]

You'll honor that on day 6?

[fferyllt]

heh.

[fferyllt]

I'm angsty about being elimed today, but I won't kick much about it.

Whether pooky is town or scum, he'll have to change his opinion on whether the scum team has a PR or not.

I'm not entirely sanguine that the game's on autowin.

[fferyllt]

If you're town and you don't fight elim tomorrow I'll be extremely sad.

[fferyllt]

This is frustrating because it feels so wrong.

Do you remember why Cabd said muffins plan worked in illicit, ffery?

I should, but I don't offhand.

[fferyllt]

do you want me to finish that fanfiction story?

It's not exactly AtE but I've spent about a half-hour wondering if scum-you could/would write fanfic about the player you're trying to elim being scum.

[fferyllt]

haven't been particularly special here!

I'll definitely read it if you write it

[fferyllt]

That it only worked because he was the first to go.

that's true imo.

[fferyllt]

ugh.

I don't know pooky well enough to be confident town-him would play his solve/decision the way zmuffin did.

Do you?

[fferyllt]

It feels like genuine emotion. When I read it, I thought he was expressing how I feel -- not wanting to be the elo miselim because of post 5022, but on reread that may not be what he meant? It could be posted for effect, I guess.

[fferyllt]

There are DAY 5 POSTS that give me reason to think both pooky and vax could be town.

[fferyllt]

staring into the bork-scum abyss is scary :/

he did say something about original plans being for midwaybear to go long in illicit.

[fferyllt]

I am.

[fferyllt]

that's the elo that scares me most.

[fferyllt]

you keep saying things about how I show paranoia of you at the right times or when you'd expect me to, or something as a reason to townread me. I don't think I'm as predictable as all that. :/

[fferyllt]

I'm not following?

[fferyllt]

This is agonizing. :/

please please please don't just chain vote or assume a setup tomorrow.

[fferyllt]

I wish my reads were solid enough to lead me to a setup assumption this time.

[fferyllt]

Wasn't that already settled?

It's an unambiguous declarative statement. nothing about "you received a message" or some such.

I'll check but it looks for reals.

[fferyllt]

reply: It is mod confirmed.

Pretty sure Prism went through that gymkhana day 4.

[fferyllt]

:/

the AtE's gone critical.

[fferyllt]

World A doesn't exist unless it's a mirror universe and by me-scum you mean you-scum.

Town has to weigh up which hell we're in tomorrow.

[fferyllt]

:/

I want to believe that.

[fferyllt]

notsci. :/

[fferyllt]

You're wrecking my heart.

[fferyllt]

how did it end?

[fferyllt]

I'll trade you. A game where I was so certain of a player's alignment that I threw months of setup spec out the window, solved the game, and we still lost.

It was the first game I wrote poetry for.

That was fiery.

I lost that kind of conviction and decisiveness in games years ago.

[fferyllt]

I played this game in my hydra with pirate mollie, and so late in the game we weren't signing.

This is the post where I revealed I had thrown out my setup spec

viewtopic.php?p=5331887#p5331887

[fferyllt]

That was beautiful.

Which is worse? Being wrong and losing or being right and losing?

[fferyllt]

you're scaring me.

[fferyllt]

interesting

[fferyllt]

Pooky, I jsut don't like how you are ignoring that I exist today. Hyper focused on fferly, saying they are probably scum, and dealing with emotions around it.

Uhhh, HELLLO, im sitting over here pooky, and your not going to address that I can be scum?

Yes, yes. 3 goons. So what? If fferly flips green, SOMEONE has to be scum, town!pooky should be ready for that.

Pooky, I jsut don't like how you are ignoring that I exist today. Hyper focused on fferly, saying they are probably scum, and dealing with emotions around it.

Uhhh, HELLLO, im sitting over here pooky, and your not going to address that I can be scum?

Yes, yes. 3 goons. So what? If fferly flips green, SOMEONE has to be scum, town!pooky should be ready for that.

if Fiery flips green I will p deadsheep her on the last scum.

Your play has been worse than Notty's for almost the entirety of the game except today.

rn you feel less "agenda-y" than he does.

I don't think town you is this certain in Fiery's innocence

it feels off

interesting

[fferyllt]

The thing that struck me about that exchange was that Vax called pooky out for not appearing concerned abour Vax's alignment.

Pooky's response was to suddenly appear concerned about sorting you.

[fferyllt]

sorting's the wrong word. just...concerned.

[fferyllt]

nope. day 1 is a thing that happened.

going to sleep.

[fferyllt]

sorting's the wrong word. just...concerned.

[fferyllt]

nope. day 1 is a thing that happened.

going to sleep.

What happened day 1?

Melanque happened.

And his trajectory on Syr happened. he went about sorting the whole cohort and settled on Syr, when (from my perspective) I was an equally attractive target based on my day 1 play. He could have pushed me instead of Syr, especially before Cabd had his moment of Zen.

I keep waffling and getting concerned about his activity level now, but I can't see his day 1 play making sense from a Syr partner.

[fferyllt]

Will you be around tomorrow sometime?

[fferyllt]

yeah not an eastern am person. If I do wake up early I'll send up a flare.

[fferyllt]

I'm here now

[fferyllt]

We're all talking in circles

[fferyllt]

yeah, though I kinda question Vax getting the game to the current state. He's played heart on sleeve for most of the game.

[fferyllt]

my final guess is pooky. if I was right on day 1 and backed off I'll be pretty upset.

[fferyllt]

augh

[fferyllt]

everything about this is just off.

[fferyllt]

I

am

vanilla

town.

You know what's wrong?

You were setting up for a cross-vote between you and me all day and instead you self-voted.

Why?

[fferyllt]

and yeah, I don't want to be here tomorrow if we're wrong.

still don't.

back in a while.

[fferyllt]

notsci

I think pooky's town.

[fferyllt]

I mean, he could be scum just giving up but that's not how this feels.

[fferyllt]

Yeah just leave me here stewing and pacing. this doesn't end well.

[fferyllt]

that was at notsci.

Do you think pooky's scum?

[fferyllt]

I feel like everything you're posting suggests you expect the game not to end with his elim.

[fferyllt]

Which, to be fair is what's holding me back from voting him.

[fferyllt]

:/

[fferyllt]

vote: pooky

I'm really sorry if I'm wrong. Even if I'm right I'm still sorry. you've played a great game and deserve to win.

If there's a tomorrow I'll hate it.

[fferyllt]

breaking my heart

[fferyllt]

I spent way too much time awake last night thinking about hammering. I wanted something more from notsci. not sure what. just...something.

[fferyllt]

anyway, I play how I play for good or ill, and there's obviously significant ill. hiatus didn't help.

Not being here tomorrow could be a fortunate consequence in more ways than one!

[fferyllt]

If I'm alive, agree, though I wanna do a lot of doomscrolling tomorrow.

[fferyllt]

news/twitter etc about the inauguration.

[fferyllt]

Sorry notsci.

Hope you both dodge the covid. Take good care of yourselves/each other.

[fferyllt]

Why are you townreading me? :/

[fferyllt]

I've been struggling with this off and on since before we elimed DGB.

[fferyllt]

yeah. and day by day this is where it's come.

I'm terrible at late game.

[fferyllt]

rereading day 1, trying to picture notsci's Syr stances as a bus is a huge, huge stretch. Particularly his role in helping consolidate Cabd's read. There was zero back-off for unwnd's replace-in, which would have been an opportunity to re-evaluate/soften. before unwnd even posted, notsci was negotiating with dgb to vote him in exchange for a peta vote on day 2.

[fferyllt]

lots of interaction between vax and unwnd.

vax's reactions to being pushed by unwnd look pretty good, though. question is whether that was distancing or what? I don't think unwnd could have believed he'd throw off his wagon, at least not for long.

[fferyllt]

I don't remember it that way, but my day 1 was pretty fried.

[fferyllt]

I think it's because xenogears d2 has impacted my concept of difficult. near-inevitable and difficult can both be true.

I think his second strongest read he hardly said anything about is much more interesting tbh

I mean... I'm kinda concerned about the weird way that unwnd came in HARD and FAST on your slot, vax. In a very awkward kiss-slap kind of duality.

I'm kinda vibing that he felt that was a potentially possible misflip

gonna agree with skitter on this one.

I gonna check both heads of that slot for similar weirdness round DGB/elements

vax still just looks really fucking town

From early day 2.

[fferyllt]

I'm not sure.

They struck me because they're interactions with flipped players. Like yours was harking back to unwnd/dgb.

and vax (understandably) preferred skitter's interpretation to Cabd's of unwnd's push on him.

And bork's stance in contrast to unwnd.

[fferyllt]

my conundrum with you, notsci is understanding why your townread of me was so solid. I feel like it originated outside of my own play and there hasn't been a whole lot of visibility to whatever has impacted it since syr.

[fferyllt]

Yeah just leave me here stewing and pacing. this doesn't end well.

:/

[fferyllt]

I hardly ever survive to this stage of a game.

I want to think that scum-you wouldn't want me at 3p elo.

[fferyllt]

Wow

[fferyllt]

Need to mull.

[fferyllt]

I want the spinning to stop.

This is killing me.

[fferyllt]

That would make two games where activity tracks.

Ok.

[fferyllt]

Yeah it has been, though like I said, activity also tracked mostly in Tenet too, which helped.

Aight

[fferyllt]

I've been looking for something where he was alive at elo.

[fferyllt]

The boonytoons game?

[fferyllt]

Yeah I'm not a fan of cold meta, but I'm pretty sure I've never played with Vax before. day 1 elim is a different animal than elo. How far back did you go? I got into 2018 games and figured they're probably not as relevant.

[fferyllt]

I misread you day 2 of Tenet, but my reads were getting put through a grater. Here, if I'm misreading you it's all on me.

I have a post hiatus replace-in newbie scum game, but I doubt it's what my scum game is actually going to look like when I draw scum. It was linked earlier. Did you look at it?

I don't know if extrapolating from the past will be closer or not. :/

[fferyllt]

It's more about whether reads have some kind of internally consistent basis and develops with data. That's what I've been looking for, and the read that's bugged me the most is your read of me.

As far as accuracy I was right on bork but was really slow about it and was scared I was getting it wrong.

In elo all of town bears responsibility for being there. It's not exactly a badge of honor.

[fferyllt]

I almost voted vax in this post

But I changed my mind

I almost voted in 5375.

[fferyllt]

After tenet I feel like I need another long break.

[fferyllt]

that was a think about my life choices game.

[fferyllt]

This has not been a game with strong handclasps and sturdy stakes in the ground. It sucks.

I didn't want to wind up in a spiral of self-doubt.

[fferyllt]

I don't think that's a particularly good argument against me being scum. I let vig-cabd live for a few days once. You were scum in that game too.

JK's different though.

[fferyllt]

I think this was the only scum game after my first hiatus. It was a day 2 replace-in.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=72159

I think this game is maybe directional in terms of where my scum game was/is headed.

[fferyllt]

Vote: Vax

[fferyllt]

I'm sorry notsci. I was scum this game.

[fferyllt]

I really didn't expect to win this.

I'm a mafia goon.

[fferyllt]

When I saw Vax's string of posts tonight, my heart sank.

I don't know if his posts would hit me that way if I didn't know he's town, but he sounded SOOOOOOO town to me several times on day 5 and 6, especially.

I really hate being scum.

[fferyllt]

Bork and I were quite salty about the game design, and that was before we knew there was also a doctor on top of the RB, JK, Vanilla Cop and Friendly Neighbor.

At least the game didn't come down to being elimed a suspected PR due to not getting vanilla copped. On day 5 I totally expected to get elimed instead of pooky.

[fferyllt]

Congrats Fiery!

I shall finish writing your fanfiction sometime this weekend.

That was a beautiful finish.

<3

This game was so hard! You totally had me dead to rights yesterday.

[fferyllt]

Also, I had this dream sometime during late day 4 or early 5 where friendly neighbor Ben had messaged 4 living town players and they'd all kept it secret and the game finale was basically assassins in the castle on top of everything else.

[fferyllt]

God damnit I singlehandedly cost this game for town fucking shit man

This just isn't true. I was a potential elim every single day. All of town let me slip through, not just you.

Don't put this solely on yourself.

[fferyllt]

Overnight I was ready to vote her because it just didn’t make sense to be brought here otherwise

Initially I was going to no-kill night 5.

I thought about no-killing instead of killing Prism on night 4, too, but I was pretty sure there wouldn't be enough paranoia about prism not dying.

I felt like I needed to do some really crazy things to get through this game, but wound up playing the night game fairly conservatively.

I also, totally retconned the meaning of the convo with Cabd. I thought he was a protective, possibly with a weak modifier on day 1. My reply was supposed to suggest I was vanilla to him, but I did not have him pegged as JK day 1.

[fferyllt]

I'm not a mastermind scum player and that's really what I needed to be here.

I feel super lucky to have been able to bring this game home for the scum team. Knowing the design we were up against as well as a really amazing team of town players, it took a lot of stern conversations with myself in the mirror to keep going. And I really, really didn't want to disappoint Syr, unwnd and bork. <3.

Town, you guys are scary! And I vastly, vastly prefer playing as town with you!

And pooky I loved the Russian train story so much! Even though we weren't team mates, you great attitude this game kept my spirits up so much of the time!

[fferyllt]

The russian narrative was extremely hilarious

Ffery I hope I did OK even though I couldn't salvage Syr's slot

You were great, unwnd and your play definitely gave us some much needed smoke screen. I was so sorry I couldn't jump ship on Cabd's murderwagon, but it would have been suicide.

[fferyllt]

your avatar...omg. <3

[fferyllt]

Ffery u did good. Post day1 i think the only thing that felt super off ehile i was alive was the timing of your bork vote day3

But other than that u positioned urself perfectly and mimicked townie indecision quite well. Post bork's death ur nks and dayplay were exactly what they needed to be for u to win

I didn't actually vote bork, but your criticism of when I decided to let the simmering suspicion boil over is very fair. The main problem with my game was being reactive. I needed stuff to play against and really couldn't seem to proactively generate stuff for town to deal with on my own. I think it came down to being so sick in late November-mid December. I'm still not 100%. Eventually I just really leaned in to how I'd been playing all along and followed through to the end with lots of waffling and hesitance. I tend to do both as town anyway, but this game was EXTREME.

[fferyllt]

Your wine club dynamic is quite frustrating to play with. You townread each other waaaaaaay too easily, are susceptible to pockets, and refuse to vote each other for what looks to me like little reason

It's not always like this, but we'd come off of 3 games in a row where several of us had found each other town, and also hadn't seen each others scum games up close in literally years in some cases. So, unwarranted overconfidence abounded. My prediction is the next few games are going to be extremely prickly.

Even so, Syr, who definitely could have been in the big happy townread circle didn't manage to make the leap. :/

I have one more game planned right now, and may take another break after that. These two games plus being sick took a lot out of me, and I really do need to focus on getting some endurance back or my 2021 biking trips are going to be short and sad.

[fferyllt]

I don't mind wine club being wrong. I mind wine club literally refusing to dialogue in good faith or remotely show interest in the opinion of outsiders.

I really think the hivemind tendency self-corrects after this game and tenet.

If I contributed to hostility or toxicity in this game, I'm really sorry. I tried to keep myself in check.

[fferyllt]

Skitter I think in tenet I was so tilted by day 1 happenings -- the near-elim of notsci's hydra, the noraa blow-up, and then flavor leaf (both the replace-in and the lolwagon) that I never got my footing back. I'm unhappy with my play there, and I'm also very upset by some things that happened in the game. I don't plan to get into it with anyone, but that game experience definitely will impact future /ins.

[fferyllt]

Sry for my poor play.

you played great. you really did. you scared me so much on day 5 and 6!

[fferyllt]

I don't think it was balanced.

None of the confusion that could have helped scum in this setup happened, and game balance really needs to at least take into account that the worst of all possible worlds can happen for either or both teams.

I feel like scum pulling out a win gives some unearned validation to what the NRG approved here and I'm sad about that.

[fferyllt]

NPOM, one thing I wanted to suggest for future games was increasing the length of the pregame. There was less than an hour between scum getting our role PMs and the game day starting. It would have really been nice to have at least a few hours to strategize an approach to the game.

[fferyllt]

Well, I mean I would like to think that the reviewers know better than me what is balanced.

Yeah, the ultimate game balance isn't on you at all.

I'm looking forward to reading the original design and basis for the changes!

[fferyllt]

That town does look a little light, even against 3 goons.

[fferyllt]

I'm curious who peta RBed night 1.

I assumed Cabd JKed elements N1 and DGB N2.

[fferyllt]

Ben claimed he'd messaged peta, and peta died, so it wasn't obviously missing.

[fferyllt]

I did all the early NKs because I expected to be elimed by midgame and we were trying to keep bork's hands clean.

[fferyllt]

I'm still tilted over my second choice dying all 3 nights lmfao

If I'd had any idea I was kill-dodging a doctor, too, I would have had a breakdown!

[fferyllt]

I'm still pretty annoyed I had to out as not BP. Would you have ever shot me in a world where I didn't?

The downside is you were my roleswap backup if I had a save, as you were the person I felt could take a hint, so that was destined to go nowhere.

Yeah I was considering to shoot you before you claimed BP, and I was planning to shoot you after the BP claim so that you could be elimed before mxlo if I needed to.

As I said in the mafia pt at some point, night 3 was our only night where we got a kill unencumbered by PR claims and we had to use it well.

Before bork was the day 3 elim we'd been discussing you vs skitter for N3.

Also, I should mention that I really didn't want to carry notsci to elo. I figured after our history that was going to be a really tough final day. The PR claims forced it on me, unfortunately.

I feel bad about putting us both through that elo!

[fferyllt]

I was not aware vanilla cop is a "scummy role". rolecops are known to be possible scum roles though.

I guess it's a weak version of rolecop? And further weakened by the half-nigths?

Anyway I learned my lesson and will lie next time!

fwiw I had no idea vanilla cop was a scummy role either. I didn't think you were elimable while Cabd was alive. He basically cut off that avenue very early day 1 after he saw your vax crumb.

[fferyllt]

not day 1, day 2.

[fferyllt]

Mastina,

I don't expect to change your mind in the least. But I have to say this on behalf of future normal game scum players.

This game gave scum no control at all over the night game. We were at the mercy of whatever the town PRs individually decided to do.

That's your prerogative.

My prerogative is to stay the hell away from this queue until I see that there's a philosophical change in what "normal" means.

But I feel obligated, on behalf of future scum teams in this queue to point out how totally screwed we were from a game design perspective.

Both the town and the mafia in this game thought the design was an issue.

Please take that under consideration going forward.

[fferyllt]

I don't want to discuss this further.

i want to discuss that you're awesome, that's all

So much this! <3

[fferyllt]

I loved that so much!

it was why I felt like we had to kill one of you on N1 because holy shit if your dance ended with townreads.

[fferyllt]

Yeah, like I said, I don't expect anything to penetrate.

Prerogatives are there to be exercised.

[fferyllt]

Fun is not something we're required to review for.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but fun is what the game and the site exist for. It really should be part of your review criteria, though it's not easy to predict or reproduce what makes some games fun and others not so much.

[fferyllt]

Is it possible to have the other PTs made public?

[fferyllt]

<3 thanks!

[fferyllt]

I think you were right to fear me/peta townlocking each other though. After these two posts it was virtually guaranteed.

For peta, I'm going to risk it.

You're either deepwolfing or just town. It's going to take more time to correct me if I'm wrong on you. Carry me in the meantime. My station as an ineffectual, unpersuasive but townread voter is my dream scenario as scum. It gives me near infinite freedom, and the wrong flips in the meantime give me more credibility as the number of eliminations needed to win gets closer. Yet I desperately want to change it. I also have no interest in exploiting your meltdown last night-it's NAI at worst and town at best.

If you disagree, that's fine, you don't have to get into it.

i'm not sure i actually have a response to that. i think i'm well outside my range but there's one person in the world who knows that. we can hopefully just figure this thing out before we have to murder each other

Peta knows my position Day 1 was what I lay awake at night dreaming of as scum, and his "not sure I have a response" over a more conclusive "that's bullshit" was a big townping.

You and peta townlocking each other and jointly gamesolving was an unknown with huge potential, and I was askeered!

[fferyllt]

From my point of view, it's not how this particular iteration of a setup like this went. The biggest pitfalls for both teams didn't transpire but if some of those pitfalls has been triggered the game would have swung hard in various directions.

Normal games are part of the pipeline from new members to experienced players and mods.

I don't think the final design of this game was a natural outgrowth of the design that NPOM envisaged when he came up with his initial design. It was something almost completely different. What kinds of lessons in design and balance was this supposed to teach?

I'm not sure how a design like this would have felt to a less experienced player list with a few players moving up from the newbie queue. Is the normal queue a good next step for players coming out of a newbie game?

From my perspective, things went from "Wow, how lucky we hit the roleblocker on night 1" to "Wow, half of town were PRs. We had a 50% chance of targeting a PR on night 1 but there were FOUR different ways the kill could have failed. This game could have been all but lost after night 1."

That's a totally different kind of luck, and a TOTALLY different feel to a game.

[fferyllt]

This is nonsense, and the role of the game designer is not to "outsmart" the town.

The players will always try and outsmart the mod, so the mod has to take this into account. Misleading the town was not the point of the setup, making it a challenging game was.

Do you think that happened in this game?

[fferyllt]

I think the game was extremely challenging.

If it were up to me, I'd have given scum a power role, but I'm extremely happy with how the game turned out overall, the level of participation and the game coming down to the final day.

Maybe as I gain more experience as a mod I will be more confrontational with reviewers about balance and fun but today was not that day.

You absolutely have nothing to apologize for about this game.

My question wasn't about the challenging nature, it was about if you thought players tried to outsmart the design in this game?

I don't think they did. I think town players tried to extrapolate from what they learned about the design.

So did the scum players. I told bork earlier tonight that I thought we wound up making almost the exact kill decisions we would have made in a mountainous setup. The only player we killed purely for their role was Ben, and we left him alone until the final day.

[fferyllt]

I just want to say again that I loved playing this game with all of you.

Thanks so much!

[fferyllt]

There was a lot of late game discussion about weather or not there were any scum power roles, so I would say they did.

So town should ignore what they learn about the setup from flips and claims?