TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[NorwegianboyEE]

I do agree that if TGP is scum then Ico being their teammate has increased equity.

[Thestatusquo]

FWIW I generally don't buy that base human emotions like antagonism are an easy thing to turn on and off, and I think if you're antagonistic that's going to bleed into both your town and your scum games. I certainly play antagonistically as both because its just in my nature to respond to aggression with aggression and to respond to rudeness with rudeness.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think ico is one of my strongest town reads in the game fwiw.

Why is this?

[Iconeum]

So you like Zor then? Maybe I should keep my vote where it is then? I just really feel strongly that TGP is scum and unlike Norwee, I think how a player interacts with you is possibly the most valuable information you can have.

I agree to some extent here. PvP interactions are obviously one of the best sources of information. One of the things I do is bump heads with players to form reads. But you seem to just hardcore scumread anyone who dares look at you and, how dare they, say they don't townread you?

That's not informative, that's bullshit. You've scumread literally every player who dared speak a bad word about you, so no i don't think ur using it to truthfully Judge people.

Unless you have extremely good reasons to think TGP is town

, what’s actually “bullshit” is your criticism of me.

I’m still suspicious of you btw and not completely sure you’re not pocketing Norwee. Why? because you’re too hard defending a slot you’re not even confidently tr. If I had the exact same read on Norwee for example, I would actually get this. It would make total sense for you to have this strong a reaction to a player you strongly tr but you haven’t actually given any indication that you do in fact strongly tr TGP, so your reaction defending him to me is way over the top.

It’s mainly because of your weird reaction to me, I think I want to trust Norwee on Akarin because I’m still not convinced you weren’t trying to chain miselims. Norwee’s reaction to this otoh makes total sense because it’s inline with his TGP read but you’re essentially going off on me for a slot you’re not even claiming to tr. So I have to ask why? Because it makes no sense to me unless you do.

tbf, there's a

[Nancy Drew 39]

I understand that but what I don't understand is how you don't seem to think its reasonable to draw opposite conclusions from you and you expect them to be persuaded by arguments they can't, again by necessity, be persuaded by.

Like idk you're town, so if you're making an argument thats like "hey them interacting with me as town right now is weird or scummy" I literally can't evaluate that argument, so its impossible for it to persuade me.

Yeah well, it comes down to you reading me correctly then, I guess.

or maybe you could realize that there's two parts of scum hunting: figuring out who the scum is and convincing others to vote them. Your methods might work for the first part but I'm telling you they suck ass at the second part.

Your point of contention as I understand it, is being obvtownread, corrrect? Well I think it’s obvious I already am, unless I’m misunderstanding your argument here?

[Thestatusquo]

It's a mix of things. I think his approach is very solve heavy, and though I know thats a blind spot of mine he genuinely seems to be trying to work through the slots in the game in a way that makes a lot of sense to me. Tonally too he feels genuine. There's a lot of gut in this but he just feels super town to me, which is unsatisfying but it is what it is.

[Iconeum]

let me try that again

tbf, there's a good chance we both haven't been reading each others posts accurately enough. I strongly townread Norwee. That should be Obvious from my iso. I don't strongly townread TGP. I don't strongly scumread him either. I'm not really trying to defend TGP here (tho i'm most certainly defending norwee), but I think your scumread on TGP isn't convincing enough to feed other players on. Get me?

[Iconeum]

Alas, being so stubborn and reactionary about it, it's probably +town...

Why is TGP town or what is even your issue here?

this post of mine was specifically referencing you, not TGP

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't think Iconeum's scum game is bad, so i don't see why he couldn't theoretically have gone under the radar as scum.
Not saying he is, but i disagree with the level of strength you have on your read here.

[Iconeum]

For the Nth time, from like the Nth player:

We dont necessarily have a problem with your reads but we have a problem with your arguments and your methods because they are coming explicitly from your POV and a perspective that assumes you're town which we by definition can't share.

this words my thoughts alot better.

It's not that I think you are wrong necesarilly, Nancy, i just think you are overstating the value of your reads from others POV.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think ico is one of my strongest town reads in the game fwiw.

I’m still really bothered by him pushing me to vote Akarin, then jumping on me when I did, then pitting us together for reasons that still aren’t making sense to me and I’m sure he will try to AtE me into understanding why he did that but it’s still not making sense to me.

Could you provide me the post numbers where this happened? I don't recall the interaction quite happening like that.

I’ll do that when I get the chance but it was enough to make me paranoid of voting Akarin.

[Thestatusquo]

I understand that but what I don't understand is how you don't seem to think its reasonable to draw opposite conclusions from you and you expect them to be persuaded by arguments they can't, again by necessity, be persuaded by.

Like idk you're town, so if you're making an argument thats like "hey them interacting with me as town right now is weird or scummy" I literally can't evaluate that argument, so its impossible for it to persuade me.

Yeah well, it comes down to you reading me correctly then, I guess.

or maybe you could realize that there's two parts of scum hunting: figuring out who the scum is and convincing others to vote them. Your methods might work for the first part but I'm telling you they suck ass at the second part.

Your point of contention as I understand it, is being obvtownread, corrrect? Well I think it’s obvious I already am, unless I’m misunderstanding your argument here?

no my contention is actually the opposite. You think you're obvtown but I don't think you are. I lean towards town for you but you seem to think that you are so obviously townie that anyone who doesn't immediately see that is worthy of suspicion and I find that line of reasoning to be bonkers.

Even if I am strongly town reading someone I am not going to buy an argument thats based on them being town also because I am fallible and I'm not going to base my read on two slots on one because that means if I'm wrong about the first one I've just fucked my reads on both.

We're starting to go down the path again where this is clearly just playstyle issues and we're not going to be productive though so I'mma drop it.

[Iconeum]

I want to get rid of an relatively inactive and unhelpful slot today.
BBMolla does not fit that criteria as they seem engaged.
Akarin has had bursts of activity.
Zor has done nothing but excuses and made scummy posts.

Of these current wagons i endore Zor, could maybe be convinced on Akarin but not really as i don’t see why they are scummy. BBMolla no.

i'm down to lim between Zor and Pine here

Are you going to explain your TGP tr to me, if you actually do have one?

me not wanting TGP ded today does not equal me having a solid townread on them

[Nancy Drew 39]

Maybe something meant something else.

or possibly Something_Smart?

[Iconeum]

Kind of feels like the scum team might be just like {pine, zor, ramcius} to me.

A complete POE would be something like { Flavor Leaf Ramcius Pine TheGoldenParadox zoraster Akarin Dr Easy Bake }

My problem is that I don’t think Pine is this antagonistic as scum. He definitely wasn’t in the game he rolled scum with me.

i feel that's a very bad way to read a slot. The actual case on Pine can't be dismissed by simply stating this.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think Iconeum's scum game is bad, so i don't see why he couldn't theoretically have gone under the radar as scum.
Not saying he is, but i disagree with the level of strength you have on your read here.

this is fair. I'll try an iso when it's not 3 am and see if that shakes anything loose for more concrete reasons for the town read or if I end up doubting myself.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I do think Nancy is obvtown at this point, i just don't believe their argument on why TGP is definitely scum is as suuuuuper convincing as they make it out to be. So i want to just keep wagoning Zor who has been scummier.

[Iconeum]

I’m still really bothered by him pushing me to vote Akarin

ok i'm not dropping this anymore

if i'm wrong then i'm wrong and i'll apologize but

you WILL quote me where I pushed you to vote Akarin or i'm deathtunneling you for misrepping me

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think people can and do play differently all the time.

I’m only aware of that scumgame but antagonistic town!Pine is something I’ve encountered a lot in his towngames but of course you’re right. However I agree with FL on how he’s viewing Pine’s reaction to the Zor wagon.

At any rate, I don’t think I’m ever voting Norwee or Misty here, so if we have a point in the game where it’s me, Norwee, Misty and Pine, I’d obviously vote Pine but I’m concerned that Ico who is ironically giving me shit for my TGP read appears to be basing his Pine read off of emotional reactions, so I don’t trust that. I think you and Norwee are approaching his slot in a way that I can’t immediately dismiss but I agree with FL, I still think he could be town doing this.

Ok i will defer to you and FL's read on Pine as i have no experience with the slot.
Still not a fan of their playstyle.

I’ve only seen one scumgame of his and several towngames and I’m just not getting “fake” from it but Shea’s point is also valid but being aggro like this is pretty typical of most Pine towngames.

[Iconeum]

I think ico is one of my strongest town reads in the game fwiw.

I’m still really bothered by him pushing me to vote Akarin, then jumping on me when I did, then pitting us together for reasons that still aren’t making sense to me and I’m sure he will try to AtE me into understanding why he did that but it’s still not making sense to me. Maybe that is a definite blind spot for me but it strongly weakened my tr of him and now he’s railing at me for sr a slot he isn’t even claiming to tr, so I’m really not understanding that.

my vote on you was a whooole lot more nuanced then this, which i'm considering you misrepping me aswell if you don't reply to me

[Thestatusquo]

I do think Nancy is obvtown at this point, i just don't believe their argument on why TGP is definitely scum is as suuuuuper convincing as they make it out to be. So i want to just keep wagoning Zor who has been scummier.

ok but my question is what has nancy done this game that she couldn't theoretically replicate as scum? Like, yeah I agree that in general that shes more likely to be town than not based on how I'm reading her motivations but I don't understand why scum nancy could not play this exact game this exact same way?

[Iconeum]

I think ico is one of my strongest town reads in the game fwiw.

I’m still really bothered by him pushing me to vote Akarin, then jumping on me when I did, then pitting us together for reasons that still aren’t making sense to me and I’m sure he will try to AtE me into understanding why he did that but it’s still not making sense to me.

Could you provide me the post numbers where this happened? I don't recall the interaction quite happening like that.

EXACTLY

[Iconeum]

oh and by the by, pretty sure "smt" from that post you were quoting earlier was supposed to mean "something."

Maybe Ico meant something else but thats what I read it as.

smt = something in my book yes

[Nancy Drew 39]

I do agree that if TGP is scum then Ico being their teammate has increased equity.

What I don’t get is the extremely strong reaction if he isn’t hard tr that slot. Obviously I don’t necessarily omgus if a slot has done other things to obvtown, so Ico telling me that my TGP read is pure OMGUS is nonsense. What about him currently being on Molla constitutes as OMGUs?

[Nancy Drew 39]

FWIW I generally don't buy that base human emotions like antagonism are an easy thing to turn on and off, and I think if you're antagonistic that's going to bleed into both your town and your scum games. I certainly play antagonistically as both because its just in my nature to respond to aggression with aggression and to respond to rudeness with rudeness.

Yes that’s a valid point and I can only go by the one scumgame of his that I’m aware of where that didn’t occur.