Micro 993 | The End

[Amélie]

I have to get ready for work but I'll be right with everyone after work.
VOTE: Kop

[Amélie]

I did come back to the thread. There was nothing to see when I came back so I didn't bother to say anything. Frogsterking explain where your confidence comes from to me.

[Amélie]

I'm a slight bit concerned on why you seem to find the need to provide some sort of read on page 1 which feels extraordinarily self conscious but I'll be waiting to see more before I come to a conclusion.

[Amélie]

Can everyone unvote if town? We lose this game if we miselim today.
I am a Vanilla townie so I have no objections to Finral's Seer claim but I would like for this day to not end abruptly like yesterday did.

[Amélie]

I will say that I believe Finral is town Seer here but mostly because I find Kop's reaction to the guilty to be very scummy. I have to work but I'll be back right after. Please no one hammer or leave the hammer available while I am away.

[Amélie]

I have to get ready for work but I'll be right with everyone after work.
VOTE: Kop

I think Amelie scum

VOTE: Amelie

Pretty sure it's Frog here as the other scum.

Amelie voted Kop, so Frog came out and pushed the person that was pushing their partner.

This is oversimplification, however I do agree that if you are town, Frogster is very likely Kop's buddy. The main problem is that I have little to work off of because of the 1 page day 1. I have some thoughts on all of this but I'd like to wait until everyone has checked in once before getting into the nitty gritty parts.

[Amélie]

Can everyone unvote if town? We lose this game if we miselim today.
I am a Vanilla townie so I have no objections to Finral's Seer claim but I would like for this day to not end abruptly like yesterday did.

Both of Finral and Kop's votes are fine here since from their perspectives they know each other are scum - Finral!town has a guilty on Kop, and Kop!town would know this isn't true.
I do concur that we should actually have a day today lol.

Finral, you'd better have a decent explanation for the quickhammer.

Fair. No one else besides these two is allowed to vote.

[Amélie]

Alright so Frogsterking basically just counterclaimed.
There's no point in being secretive about prs at this point(it's open setup and we are in limlo) and I am now pretty certain that the scum team is just Kop and Frogsterking.

Kop's reply to Finral's guilty was horrible. I'm not sure how else to describe it because it really was just bad.
Frogsterking is hinting at counterclaiming but honestly, if he's town seer, he would just counterclaim immediately and he'd know Finral is scum. If he is vanilla townie, he would see that no one counterclaimed the seer claim so he would know Kop is scum and Finral is town. However, scum Frogsterking is in a bad position because if he doesn't counterclaim the seer claim, his buddy Kop is confirmed scum because no one countered the seer claim. But if he counterclaims, the seer knows the entire scum team and the scum team only has one way to win which would be elimming Finral today.

[Amélie]

The only alternative to a Kop/Frogsterking scum team would be Finral/Kop where Frogsterking, town seer, played extremely badly at the beginning of the day.
These are the only possibilities that I see here.

[Amélie]

But I do think that Frogsterking is just scum here. He can't be vanilla townie otherwise he would think Finral is town and Kop is scum. That means he would have to be town seer if town but town seer in his position would immediately counterclaim and also claim his own night action - instead Frogsterking doesn't counterclaim, says that prs should not out(if he were a town seer, he would be the only pr left so this is just strange), and then calls Finral scum.

None of that makes sense from town.

[Amélie]

If Amelie and Finral are just trying to push a quick win through then I think Finral should have faked an inno on a Townie to pocket them.

I find Amelie's reads here unbelievable purely because there is no reason whatsoever to trust what Finral is saying.

I think considering a PR died and my only TR got night killed I'm going to take a bit of a risk and assume Finral isn't bussing their partner.

That being said, Klick, why not unvote yesterday to take NM off e-1?

Also this post right here just says that everyone could potentially be scum BUT kop probably isn't because Finral wouldn't bus his buddy.

[Amélie]

VOTE: Finral

Obvious scum. Deserves rope for that scummy hammer.

I will say that I believe Finral is town Seer here but mostly because I find Kop's reaction to the guilty to be very scummy. I have to work but I'll be back right after. Please no one hammer or leave the hammer available while I am away.

Where? I don't see the scum tell in Kop's reaction.

Can everyone unvote if town? We lose this game if we miselim today.
I am a Vanilla townie so I have no objections to Finral's Seer claim but I would like for this day to not end abruptly like yesterday did.

Why are you claiming? It reads like role fishing. Scum risk a potential auto loss tomorrow if they're not able to identify the Seer today.

This post doesn't make sense from a town seer. Saying Finral is scum is a clear counterclaim and we are in limlo, why is claiming a problem? When Klick didn't counterclaim, they indirectly claimed Vanilla townie. This setup is open. Frogsterking is just scum trying to find reasons to scum read any townie to get the win by us mislimming today. Yeah, no I think the team is just Frogsterking/Kop. It makes perfect sense and I don't believe this play ever comes from town.

[Amélie]

Sorry for spamming but I'm about to announce that

Frogsterking/Kop

is the scum team here and it is very very obvious.
Klick, you are a fellow vanilla townie, what do you think about all of this?
I tried my best to explain my thought process and if anything doesn't make sense, I'm willing to explain again.

The setup looks like this:
Notmafia - town cop
Finral - town seer
Amélie - vanilla townie
Momrangal - vanilla townie
Klick - vanilla townie
Frogsterking - scum/werewolf
Kop - scum/werewolf

[Amélie]

Amelie is scum telling in 63 because by appealing to Klick she's making it obvious that she knows Klick is town, even though if you ISO her there's no indication previously that she townreads Klick.

I'd like to see an actual case on me instead of posts like this.

[Amélie]

This is a scum narrative being pushed together IMO. Like I said, they're not doing a good job reading pr signals.

Ok, town seer. Who did you check last night?

[Amélie]

This is a scum narrative being pushed together IMO. Like I said, they're not doing a good job reading pr signals.

Ok, town seer. Who did you check last night?

I hope you realize that you have pushed yourself into a corner where you cannot say you checked anyone except Kop. Because you came in today saying everyone could be scum except Kop probably wasn't. That just isn't town mindset. Town Seer comes in and states they got a guilty or a clear. If they see someone else claimed their role, they IMMEDIATELY counterclaim because they know that is scum.

You on the other hand say prs shouldn't out, don't counterclaim, and don't claim your night action.

You are town seer or scum but I'm pretty sure you are just scum.

[Amélie]

My posts and thought process has been a little scattered but I'm going to explain all of my thought process in this post as best as I can and hopefully it makes sense to Klick because Klick's vote is all town needs to win this game.

Ok so lets ignore day 1. That day didn't matter. 1 page of nothingness and I did not like Frogsterking's push on me but that's alright because perhaps that was bias. Today however, had many things that cannot be dismissed.

Finral claims town seer the moment the day starts as well as a guilty on Kop. Klick, Kop, and I check in and don't cc. This means all 3 of us are vanilla townie or scum.
Frogsterking checks in and says Finral is scum. A vanilla townie would never say this because they would know Finral was not countered by anyone(including themselves because they are vanilla) so that rules out that option. This means that Frogsterking is either town seer or scum.

Then Frogsterking says that prs should not out. Town seer would counter claim immediately here and 1v1 Finral(scum in that case)
But no, Frogsterking says prs should not out but Finral is scum. I believe Frogsterking is trying to replicate town prs and their tendency to be secretive. Perhaps he is trying to replicate pr softing but the problem is that yes, town prs normally would be softing and crumbing on day 2 but this game is different. We are in limlo on day 2 and no town pr would be like that in this game especially since it's open setup. We all know and are informed that there is only 1 town pr left. If Frogsterking is town seer, he would know instantly that Finral is scum, he would assume Kop is town because of that, and then proceed to tell us his night result and then 1v1 Finral.

But no, because he is scum, he needs to counterclaim but he doesn't want to so he ended up in the middle of no mans land with a confscum status.

If Frogsterking is scum, then that confirms Finral as town and the guilty is then on the second scum, Kop.

So really, the key to this puzzle is figuring out what Frogsterking's alignment is. Once you figure that out, the game is solved. Hopefully that made sense.

[Amélie]

I was originally a little worried that I was confbiasing but no, Frogsterking is scum and that rules out the possibility that Finral is scum with Kop which was my paranoia solve.

[Amélie]

I'm surprised Kop is not scum reading me which is throwing me off a bit right now but I really do not see a world where Kop is town here but I do need to think on this a bit more.

If Kop were town, then Finral would be scum with Klick and I don't think I see that over just Kop and Frogsterking because Frogsterking is bleeding scum here and if Frogsterking is scum, it's with Kop.

No, I think they are trying to confuse us but it's strange that Kop isn't pushing me because that would be the optimal play here for him but .. AH I want to scream this is confusing me now.

[Amélie]

No I've thought it through and I think Kop is just scum. Even that reply post to Frogsterking is just bad. If Kop were town, he'd think Finral was scum and so the only counterclaim to Finral would gamestate and logically wise HAVE to be the town seer. Why would Finral's partner have to be BETWEEN Frogster and I? Kop is trying to make me reverse my read on him.

[Amélie]

Sorry I realize all my posts have been heavy with logical madness but if you read each post a couple times and take breaks in between to think about it, they do make sense.

[Amélie]

If it's unnecessary for me to post my wall for you to sort then I believe it's better that I don't because it's basically just giving scum team information at that point.

If you are town, then Finral is scum and the scum team already knows you are the town seer. I don't even understand what all this horrible logic is about.

[Amélie]

Anyways, the scum team is Frogsterking and Kop and I will case them as many times as needed to win this game.
Today, the elimination should be Frogsterking because once he flips scum, it is obvious that Kop is the buddy. If we elim Kop today, I worry about what would happen if paranoia eats town up and Klick believes Frogsterking over Finral because it can be logically argued that Finral killed off his buddy just to seem more townie.
VOTE: Frogsterking

[Amélie]

I do believe that, Amelie and Finral truly believe I'm PR, but that I was their third guess for PR, and they're only pushing this case now because they realized they were wrong about you and Momrangal.

Can you please claim? Because you seem like you are backing out of a town seer claim and if that's the case, you are double the confscum status than you were if you had fake claimed town seer.

[Amélie]

There has been a lot of content since I last checked
Not much time for the next few hours, but I should be able to get on to check stuff out tonight.

My posts are wordy and long and boring but please, read them.

[Amélie]

If Finral is scum, Frogster is the real town seer so he can't possibly be the scum buddy.

[Amélie]

As I've said, the town seer if not Finral, would have counterclaimed immediately once seeing Finral's claim. There was no counterclaim except a weak counterclaim that was never directly stated as a counterclaim from Frogsterking.
One of Finral and Frogsterking is scum and one is the real town seer. It is that simple.

[Amélie]

I'm not sure why I am even reasoning with the two scum here. I'm going to wait for the townies to come online.

[Amélie]

I'm a little disappointed that whoever was seer didn't claim but I'll take the blame for this loss anyways.

[Amélie]

I'm a little disappointed that whoever was seer didn't claim but I'll take the blame for this loss anyways.

Yeah, what made you trust Finral?

I found you extremely scummy. That is why I trusted Finral.

[Amélie]

Then that means Kop was seer but I can see why he was in a tough position because after getting guiltied, claiming seer does look a decent amount bad but I would've preferred he claim anyways because I got thrown for a loop with Frogsterking hinting at being seer for no apparent reason.

[Amélie]

We definitely needed to solid counterclaim for me to not trust Finral.

[Amélie]

It didn't make sense to me that you distrusted Finral without a counterclaim.

[Amélie]

I'm going to log off for the night but I'm sorry.

[Amélie]

I have to work soon but Flavor Leaf, I feel like I know you but can't quite put my finger on who you are so no, I'm not sure knowing that Finral was you changes much for me.

I believe this loss happened because I was a swing vote and neither townie did what I expected town would do in this situation. I had a Finral scum paranoia read throughout the entirety of the day but I just felt like Frogsterking was extremely scummy. I guess the key to winning me over here would have been to try to get me to understand your Finral scum read because I never understood it. I felt like only a town seer or scum would scumread Finral there given no counterclaims and today was limlo and most definitely not a day to be cagey with claims. That was something crucial that I absolutely needed explained and with no explanation, I really do not think there was even a slight chance that I would've believed you.

I understand how Kop was thinking when not counterclaiming immediately but that lead to me believing Finral was the true town seer and to my impulsive decision that lead to a town loss. Perhaps if there was a different, calmer, and more reasonable townie in my place things might have gone differently. I'll definitely be less impulsive in the future but I am still shocked at how different my expectations and reality were.

[Amélie]

I wouldn't be so quick to take all of the credit for this win if I were you, Finral. And I mean no offense by this but I do find your postgame statements to be rather condescending.

I believe you won more due to my inability than your ability. And the length of this game proves my point even more.

[Amélie]

I'm not here to start a fight. I do think this was a good game and I will nicely say good game to everyone here but I would appreciate it if we didn't get this loss rubbed into our faces in this manner.

[Amélie]

Enchant? Ahsoka?

[Amélie]

Ahsoka right? You were scum with me once.