Mini Normal 2192 - Korean Pop Artists - Mafia Wins

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: NPOM

[Rannygazoo]

It was a great vote and I'd do it again VOTE: NPOM

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: Salsabil

Gut town read on cook. Everyone else step it up.

Someone do something to engage me. The back and forth between daisy and elements was boring and uninformative.

[Rannygazoo]

I will make a sudden impact on my entrance...

this is a foreshadowing

This is scum. Town doesn’t need an elaborate gambit to join the game.

Salsabil/shigaraki/who else?

[Rannygazoo]

how tf is cook the one you end up with a townread on here.

99 looks towny to me, examining their own reads and reshaping their conclusions instead of doubling down on what might be a fake read.

[Rannygazoo]

Because they don’t know what to claim down the line but they’ve brainstormed lots of ideas that they want to create space for

[Rannygazoo]

how tf is cook the one you end up with a townread on here.

99 looks towny to me, examining their own reads and reshaping their conclusions instead of doubling down on what might be a fake read.

he's not re-examining anything, he was asked to provide proof for his claims and realized there is none. try again.

I’m just saying, I can relate to having the first few pages feel like a blur in terms of who posted what, especially if you don’t know the players. I think scum would be playing more carefully here.

[Rannygazoo]

Not sure why you’re asking. We are in agreement that the stuff you just listed is not careful, yes?

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: Cook

They counterclaimed me.

Nah, I know it wasn't real, but something about their pop in was off to me.

How do you know it wasn’t real?

[Rannygazoo]

Usually the person forming the townblock needs to be town.

That's why I already claimed for you, guys.

I will not be lasting this game.

Lel. Why would you expect anyone to believe your claim? The elaborate wind-up?

[Rannygazoo]

Usually the person forming the townblock needs to be town.

That’s the best post I’ve ever seen you make.

[Rannygazoo]

No you haven't

[Rannygazoo]

I agree with NPOM but there’s not a whole lot I can do about it because there’s no way we’re eliminating a cop claim day 1.

[Rannygazoo]

. And I will continue to ask reasons for every slot why the slot is being townreaded/scumreaded.

@Salsa that’s not how you’re treating my scumread on you.

[Rannygazoo]

Can someone tell me what

Shigaraki

is actually trying to do??? First, they claim cop, then they claim mason with

Datisi

!! What am I missing here?

Shigaraki is scum who is trying to create confusion and avoid a day 1 elim, while drawing protective roles away from town night 1. The mason thing was just noise.

[Rannygazoo]

"shigaraki is trying to get towncred" yes and that is scummy because ... ? town doesn't want to get towncred???

Solving is good, but shigaraki is just listing people they think are town and expecting everyone to go along with it. That’s not solving. I see this as helping the slot more than it helps town.

Plus I’m getting bad vibes from the claims, even the jokey ones. I can pretty much guarantee that cop will not be Shigaraki’s final “serious” claim.

[Rannygazoo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Saudade
None of the current wagons speak to me.

Can someone give me a m*ta read of Salsa? I feel like I want to trust her because of her openness with the real name etc. but I know that has no bearing on what alignment she rolled. I can’t really see anything AI in her posts.

305 feels a little like scum outlining what they’ll do to act like town. Not enough evidence to convict.

[Rannygazoo]

[Rannygazoo]

I don’t think eliminating a cop claim day 1 is the right thing to do. Even though I don’t believe it, I think that more evidence will come forward later in the game to make it more certain.

If I’m right and the slot is scum, we may get associations.

If I’m wrong, town is spared the shame of eliminating a cop day 1.

If it’s just fake-claiming town... I don’t know the risk/reward of eliminating there.

[Rannygazoo]

No because Shig is active and will continue to be so while Cook is being limited with their responses and not really putting up a fight. If Cook says, "no for real, I'm cop." Then I'll 100% back off but something tells me that isn't going to happen.

Wtf did you expect to happen after posting this

[Rannygazoo]

I don’t see the benefit of ending the day before Zuko and Saudade catch up.

If anyone actually lolhammers, I will be coming after you hard day 2. Or if I die tonight, I hope town will see this and avenge me.

[Rannygazoo]

DeathNote is acting strange and I can’t quite put my finger on it.

Peep the iso. A full half of it is AOI— complaining about meta reads, without doing anything to move the game forward. His first real contribution is the vote on Cook, which is framed as a pressure vote. But talking to Datisi, he lets this sequence slip:

No no no, I already had a scum read there.

So it wasn’t a pressure vote, and you were lying about your intentions? Or it was but you got a scum read later? Or a read doesn’t have to be real?

I am my OWN person ok.

^when Datisi asks if he’s sheeping. When asked why the vote, he goes on the offensive:

I've given more reasoning then you have tbf

But also you voting cook randomly screams "pay attention to this" and should be called out.

Ok, so nothing’s real.

Then in 368, he tells Cook the magic words to say in order to avoid the elim, so of Cook say them. This confuses me the most. I can see this coming from scum because it gives him an excuse not to act on fake convictions. But wouldn’t scum want to elim a cop claim? And if they’re both scum, wouldn’t they just coordinate in the PT instead of having DeathNote publicly give Cook an out? I don’t know why town would do this either.

I’m left feeling like the push on Cook was fake but I don’t know why DeathNote would end it like that.

[Rannygazoo]

I’m town and scum?

[Rannygazoo]

He can’t dig himself out of this one. Stop coaching him. VOTE: Cook

[Rannygazoo]

Yes, I would also want to block the day from ending early, but it’s E-3 so I’m not worried.

[Rannygazoo]

I think cook listing someone twice makes him forgetfully not scum. Scum would be more careful.

I’ve thought about it and I don’t buy it. If mistakes are towny, then scum will want to make mistakes in order to look towny. If cook can’t decide if I’m town or scum, there’s a “null” row right there in yellow, between me and me. It feels more like scum!Cook has considered pushing both angles.

[Rannygazoo]

History will vindicate me.

[Rannygazoo]

I'm cop lmao

[Rannygazoo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Saudade
None of the current wagons speak to me.

Can someone give me a m*ta read of Salsa? I feel like I want to trust her because of her openness with the real name etc. but I know that has no bearing on what alignment she rolled. I can’t really see anything AI in her posts.

305 feels a little like scum outlining what they’ll do to act like town. Not enough evidence to convict.

Why would you randomly vote an inactive player at this point?

I played with Town!Salsa once before, and her play seems much improved here already. I think she has been really transparent in this game so I'm TR'ing her independently for that. I have no idea about her scum meta.

Everyone else felt towny at that point except for one of the cop claims so by PoE scum had to be one of the inactives.

[Rannygazoo]

@Luca doesn’t it look like DeathNote is coaching Cook? Telling him to say his claim is serious, and then telling him to clarify the read on me (which he still can’t do).

[Rannygazoo]

It means counter-claim.

Remember in the last game we played? You claimed Doc and I immediately CC'd you, because I knew you were lying.

oh right

thanks for reminding me

Maybe it’s a language barrier but you’re dodging everyone’s questions. Why did you feel like you needed to claim cop if you believed Shigaraki?

[Rannygazoo]

Everyone else felt towny at that point except for one of the cop claims so by PoE scum had to be one of the inactives.

I’ll stand by this. There is scum in {Zuko, SoS, Saudade}.

[Rannygazoo]

I thought so too, until Cook claimed scum.

[Rannygazoo]

We elim Cook today, protectives go to Shigaraki (or not, WIFOM), and Shigaraki reveals what his next claim is tomorrow. Eliminating Cook simplifies things.

[Rannygazoo]

Wiki article on lazy:

The modifier is primarily intended for games where the size of each faction is known, and thus players know whether their own role is usable.

The crumb disproves itself. How boring.

[Rannygazoo]

(ಠ ͟ʖಠ)

[Rannygazoo]

I'm cop lmao

Powerful and underrated post

[Rannygazoo]

Then do better in this game

[Rannygazoo]

Saudade(1) - Rannygazoo

um

[Rannygazoo]

Flash wagon on SoS go VOTE: SoS

[Rannygazoo]

Wiki article on lazy:

The modifier is primarily intended for games where the size of each faction is known, and thus players know whether their own role is usable.

The crumb disproves itself. How boring.

Can a more experienced or brilliant player confirm that the wiki is accurate here?

[Rannygazoo]

Like, I'm prepared to give Cook a day to tell us a fake result, but more than that is excessive.

[Rannygazoo]

Wiki article on lazy:

The modifier is primarily intended for games where the size of each faction is known, and thus players know whether their own role is usable.

The crumb disproves itself. How boring.

Can a more experienced or brilliant player confirm that the wiki is accurate here?

Lazy modifier is one that makes it if there is only 1 scum left, the role won't work

My point being is that lazy is for games where we already know the faction sizes. We don’t *really* know how many scum there are, so lazy shouldn’t be in play.

[Rannygazoo]

there's 3. this is a 13 player game, there's 3.

That’s not a rule.

[Rannygazoo]

Ranny was in that game too.

Memory expunged

[Rannygazoo]

I remember Flavor spewing but I don’t remember which lie you mean.

[Rannygazoo]

Excuse my ignorance, what be a weeb my friends? And, more importantly, why must we flirt when we discuss said weebs?

I’m disappointed that this is all he had to say about everything that happened today. He’s either lurking scum or worthless as town.

You should be glad, Cook.

[Rannygazoo]

Sure. We’ve got time left in the day.

[Rannygazoo]

Hey Cook, am I town or scum?

[Rannygazoo]

Were you the one I listed twice?

Really hamming up the whole forgetful thing.

[Rannygazoo]

I’m a Neapolitan.

Why are you lying leaf?

Ok, I remember now. Flavor was obviously scum and I ruined it by trying to make a big grand solve all at once instead of trusting town to solve after I’m dead -_-

[Rannygazoo]

What are the odds Cook and Shig are both scum, counting on town to think one of the cop claims must be real?

It’s not a bad gambit. Vanilla cop is uncommon for these setups, right?

[Rannygazoo]

So if they did that, chances are they won’t be counterclaimed.

[Rannygazoo]

Looking through a few recent mini normals, I don’t see it.

[Rannygazoo]

Why would cook die at night?

[Rannygazoo]

Counterpoint: that's ridiculous

[Rannygazoo]

Vanity wagons at this stage will get you nowhere

[Rannygazoo]

I was hoping for something good from Saudade but we got a lot of fluff instead. We can elim there if you want. Want to do it?

[Rannygazoo]

Datisi
Salsabil Faria
Luca/NPOM
Oopsie/Elements (still can’t tell them apart)
Saudade
SoS/Zuko
Cook/Shig

I don’t really think Shig and Cook are scum together, but I really don’t think they’re town together.

DeathNote is in there somewhere idk

[Rannygazoo]

What makes Oopsie suspicious?

[Rannygazoo]

I think Elements comes out looking worse than Oopsie. The quick vote in 618 makes it seem like they were monitoring the thread or scum pt.

Oopsie’s thing does sound weird, but is it scummy? I can see someone thinking it’s better in the long run if they leave rather than claimed PRa. Scum sacrifice themselves all the time (by letting themselves be bussed to give teammates cover), and this looks like the town version of that.

[Rannygazoo]

Shouldn’t you be asking that in the pt

[Rannygazoo]

I don’t see any convincing reason to vote Zuko rather than SOS.

[Rannygazoo]

eh, if cook is town, we're both town.

Empty statements like this just make me scumread you more.

[Rannygazoo]

I'm inclined to think sos and Shig are scum buddies.

Why? There are people trying to pivot away from the SOS wagon for no good reason but Shiggy isn’t the first one that comes to mind.

im masons with SoS and Prince Zuko.

Ok now this is obvious BS. I don’t get why you’re protecting the inactives.

He’s already said that he’s death tunneling Cook. He’ll say anything to keep votes on Cook and off anyone else. Just disregard him for the rest of the day.

[Rannygazoo]

Who is the first one that comes to mind?

U

That's not what he says here:

I don’t give a lot of weight to “if X then I’m town” statements. It’s hollow bluster that I think is more likely to come from scum. Shig is still voting Cook (the only one!) and I don’t expect that to change. Or at least, he said it wouldn’t.

[Rannygazoo]

I humbly request to the mods that next time SoS posts, he’s held to a higher standard for “game-content posts”.

[Rannygazoo]

The next time he resets the prod timer, I meant to say

[Rannygazoo]

He wants to see how much anti-town behavior he can get away with, or set our expectations for him low. I can only see this play as coming from scum.

[Rannygazoo]

I'm not actually a cop

It brings me no pleasure to say I called it.

[Rannygazoo]

Let’s elim a lurking slot. It will make reads easier in the future.

Until then, my wagon is just pressure, message loud and clear, now let’s just pivot to, at least in my opinion, a more juicy wagon.

Calling it pressure and not doing anything is a challenge. I’m not backing down.

[Rannygazoo]

it brings you immense pleasure you condescending cat

The only thing that has brought me pleasure lately

-insert offence joke ending here-

Kind regards, JV

[Rannygazoo]

She’s such a sweet lady

[Rannygazoo]

I meant it in good faith, but noted

[Rannygazoo]

You can delete it if you want. It’s not game relevant.

[Rannygazoo]

In some cultures, it’s a compliment

[Rannygazoo]

For the record I asked Noraa privately to delete it, but it stays for game integrity reasons. I’m sorry to anyone I offended.

As for the game, I’m not needed for the rest of the day, and I need to do some stuff.

@mod V/LA for two days

[Rannygazoo]

No purple breakdown for the chosen one?
This group is wasting their vote on a VT.

Should have claimed cop

[Rannygazoo]

I could get behind a wagon on Saudade, but I’m feeling this when it comes to SoS.

There are practically no positives to keeping him alive based on his current play.

SoS is a tumor that needs to be excised for the game’s sake.

[Rannygazoo]

Rannygazoo

:

Color removed because I'm not dealing with those markup tags

Please explain your scumread on me at 195 and 197.

Pure reaction test. I thought that since you were a newbie, it would be easy to get something out of you, or your buddies if you're scum.

As you stated on 316,

Cook

also did the same things. Then why do you scumread

Shigaraki

but not

Cook

?

That's ancient history. Shig was suspect to me because of the build-up to a fake claim. I had reasons for townreading Cook independent of a claim.

What is wrong with my 305 which you stated on 346? I also gave a reply on 351.

Loudly stating intentions pings me as scummy. If you're town, show us, don't tell us.

I think

Son of a Shephard

is openwolfing (don't know if it's the correct term to use here or not), town openwolfs too, so it's hard to judge right now (refer: 852).

I don't know what openwolfing means either!

[Rannygazoo]

When did

Cook

claim scum (refer: 478)?

Right here. I'm surprised that more people haven't talked about it.

I

am

scum bullcrap.

[Rannygazoo]

You wanted to eliminate

Cook

but voted

Son of a Shephard

on 616??

If I'm wrong and Cook is actually a cop, it's a big deal to miselim the slot.

If I'm wrong and SoS is actually VT, it's not a big deal at all.

[Rannygazoo]

There are practically no positives to keeping him alive based on his current play.

Saudade is playing better than him?

Salsa, I'm going to link you one of my completed games (NPOM was in this one). It was 4v3 ELo and I knew who two of the scum were, and I also knew that I was dying the next night because I was confirmed town. I had two candidates for the remaining scum. Rather than forcing a vote on the known scum, I picked the candidate who was playing better because she would be able to talk her way out of an elim once I was gone. It turned out she was town. viewtopic.php?p=12400501#p12400501

I don't think that "playing better" is quite the right reason for a vote when there are more obvious candidates.

[Rannygazoo]

I respect Shig’s play. He got exactly what he wanted.

[Rannygazoo]

Blocked.

How do you know?

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: DeathNote prove me wrong.

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: Zuko prove me wrong.

I can’t, but I feel like since we already spent a day paring down the useless slots, we should now focus on the associations we have.

I was feeling yesterday that DeathNote was trying to coach Cook. Their early responses today look planned together. So there’s a decent chance they’re part of the scum team. I think DeathNote is the better elim because I would still feel stupid about eliminating a cop at this stage.

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: Cook

I challenge thee to provide evidence to the contrary of my conclusion.

I got nothing, except it’s plausible that scum would kill one cop claim and block the other in the same night.

[Rannygazoo]

If Cook isn't scum, would you still SR DeathNote?

DeathNote was the counter wagon to SoS yesterday so maybe scum wants to preserve the slot.

As for better reasons for scumread him, I’m hoping someone on that wagon will speak up. I found DN hard to read.

[Rannygazoo]

OH WAIT THEYRE BOTH DEAD

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: Saudade

[Rannygazoo]

This push is weird.

[Rannygazoo]

At least your annoyance and pettiness never ran out.

[Rannygazoo]

What info would you have gotten from Oopsie going?

[Rannygazoo]

I can’t make any sense of El v Oopsie but 1219 pings me hard. Thinking of your elim as the natural order of things comes from a scum POV. Or so I think.

[Rannygazoo]

I don’t know. My reads are probably bad this game. I’m agreeing with Luca that we shouldn’t focus too much on pre-flip associations (even though I said earlier that I my vote was on DN because of associations).

[Rannygazoo]

question to the table: why was it so easy to wagon sos yesterday, but zuko never got past 2 votes, despite the slots feeling decently similar

Not enough votes to go around? The vibe I got from Zuko is that he was distracted but willing to try. When SoS posted 771, it became clear that he would never help town and had to go.

@Luca I’ve played two games with PlusJOYED (helped wagon him in the first) and in both of them, he just seemed lost. Like he was some issues to be work out and shouldn’t be playing mafia. I was dead when he was eliminated the second time around, but it was the right choice because he was never going to contribute and the slot was always going to be suspicious.

I don’t feel that way about Zuko’s slot, and I don’t really buy that SoS was a counter-wagon to Zuko, because it was there first. In fact, I’m going to take it nice and chill until Zuko is replaced.

[Rannygazoo]

Saudade coming in high on bluster, low on content reminds me of scum!Flavor Leaf.

[Rannygazoo]

But this isnt how I normally play so If I do get hanged here I wont be particulary upset

How do they feel about this in the scum pt?

[Rannygazoo]

Prince Zuko failed to pick up a prod and is being force replaced

We’ve had an absent slot for an entire day. Extension?

[Rannygazoo]

I’m hurt that no one remembered my cop claim or asked for my results

[Rannygazoo]

UNVOTE:
I’m not committing to bringing Saudade to night 2, but let’s see what Firebringer has to say.

[Rannygazoo]

Intent to hammer

Get well soon DN

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: Saudade

[Rannygazoo]

If this flips scum, look at Oopsie or Zuko’s slot for the others. No one did anything to counter this wagon, so the teammates are likely inactive.

If this flips town, Saudade has my apologies.

[Rannygazoo]

I think the cook green flip means there is a scum blocking role.

He flipped cop n2 n3

Which I assume means he can only cop those nights. I think scum knew that thanks to the "informed" role so we should be looking at people who are acting on such knowledge. People who don't seem concerned about a cop claim day one. Daisy is a great vote today.

I also doubt there is a "blocking" role if the cop only has two shots available.

If the “informed” was “there is a cop”, that would explain why they killed the first two cop claims first. A lazy firebringer might have seen the scum pt, seen there weren’t any cop flips yet, and thought it was ok to claim.

Any other theories?

[Rannygazoo]

I haven't read much of today but I do get a sense of urgency from Datsi I haven't seen all game which is weird. Did something happen that I'm not aware of?

Datisi’s tone doesn’t feel that much different from day 1, for instance, 417

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: firebringer omg talk about something else

[Rannygazoo]

I think that’s e-1?

I honestly missed the new page somehow.

[Rannygazoo]

Ohh I jsut got hammered.

Okay, I was Town Rolecop.

Cya. No night action results.

I don’t believe this but UNVOTE:

[Rannygazoo]

Datisi is voting Daisy tho?

[Rannygazoo]

fire, could you claim your results, if rolecop is actually your role?

No

So your whole last page was AtE?

[Rannygazoo]

Fine, e-1 you go VOTE: Firebringer

[Rannygazoo]

Rolecop too hard for you to fake, so you claim smug town leader instead? You can be hammered for all I care.

[Rannygazoo]

It's not from a movie

I am literally a cat looking through a bottle

[Rannygazoo]

If it were society, we would be living in it, not looking through it

[Rannygazoo]

I can’t handle this anymore

Someone hammer

[Rannygazoo]

Absolute madman

[Rannygazoo]

I would actually consider novice 2 shot cop to be more normal than N2 N3 Cop

First of all, lol

[Rannygazoo]

Secondly, this game is over

VOTE: Daisy

[Rannygazoo]

Here's a quick rundown:

VC 3.3

Firebringer (4) -

DeathNote, NoPowerOverMe, Salsabil Faria, Rannygazoo, Elements

GANKED

OopsieDaisy(2) -

Datisi

DeathNote (1) -

Firebringer

Not Voting (2) -

OopsieDaisy, Luca Blight

Firebringer has been eliminated!

Scum doesn't bus at this stage of the game. Scum *might* panic and hammer for town cred and to end the day short, but they don't vote early on their buddy like this. Firebringer didn't have to be the elim, until he did. So we can remove everyone but {Elements, Datisi, Daisy, Luca} from PoE.

Look at how the wagons on Saudade and Firebringer developed, though. There was never a super good case against either of them. They both just sort of happened without real opposition, even from Saudade and Firebringer themselves. Scum had communication and morale issues. So we can rule out Datisi and Luca. With Datisi capable of posts like 1142, he would have done something in the main thread to derail the wagons, or at least kept his buddy's spirits up in the scum pt. Luca would have kept his buddy in the game too.

So it's down to Elements or Daisy. There were no real interactions with Firebringer, so let's look at interactions with Saudade.

I feel like all we've been doing today is waiting for a

zuko

replacement so we can then eliminate

saudade

(Coloring mine) I don't see this coming from scum. Why call out your two buddies like that at once?

Compare to Daisy's last two posts:

My scumread on El is starting to get a bit stronger based of associatives + their eagerness to try and get this day finished off of a flimsy wagon.

flimsy wagon.

Elaborate

The one that started with 3 naked votes, that one.

An entirely reasonable objection to Saudade's wagon. But this is exactly the halfhearted sort of non-defense that fits with the manner in which Saudade and Firebringer left. With buddies like this, why stick around? It looks like scum!Daisy objected to Saudade being caught for the wrong reasons, and then forgot about the game and peaced out to enjoy her new PC.

So let's not drag this out, for everyone's sake.

[Rannygazoo]

Speaking of forgetting about the game,

@mods

don't forget the day start PMs.

[Rannygazoo]

Let’s say you successfully mindmeld with Salsa and rule out Daisy. Who is your second choice?

[Rannygazoo]

Not that I think that’s the right way to go about it. I can’t guess what Salsa did on any night. She might have tried to protect someone she townread night 3.

[Rannygazoo]

I can’t imagine what went down in that scum pt. Actually, I can. Nothing, because Daisy was gone and FB was alone.

FB’s claim was so weird that I don’t know whether or not he actually thought he was hammered or if it was just AtE. What is clear is that he didn’t have time to think his claim through, which probably means there was no one to discuss it with.

Ultimately we agree that Daisy is the best choice, and guessing what Salsa might have done isn’t enough of a reason to skip over the slot.

[Rannygazoo]

I would have, but Salsa is her own player.

[Rannygazoo]

Do you know the blue eyes logic puzzle? https://xkcd.com/blue_eyes.html

The short version is that 100 perfect logicians have to figure something out with limited communication. They’re only able to do it because “perfect logician” means they all think the same, or at the very least, they’re all able to figure out what the others are thinking.

That’s a luxury that we don’t have here, even if we’re good at logic individually.

[Rannygazoo]

I'd be willing to stake my life on Datsi being town.

DeathNote was a

Town Tracker

it really doesn't, no.

This is convincing to clear Datisi.

Based on meta, I think NPOM is just boneheaded town. Scum might have picked up Deathnote’s crumb and killed him. I didn’t notice it, and it sure looks like NPOM didn’t.

Even though I was wrong about Daisy, I’m still feeling Hanlon’s Razor on the way Saudade and FB rolled over. I doubt it’s a deep conspiracy. Scum just didn’t have a plan or communication. I’ll have to reread their interactions (and all of today that I skimmed).

Ok, let’s solve this game today.

[Rannygazoo]

I feel like all we've been doing today is waiting for a zuko replacement so we can then eliminate saudade

@luca how do you explain this as coming from scum?

[Rannygazoo]

Would DN be able to tell “Datisi did not visit” from “no result”, meaning Datisi is ascetic or something interferes with the actions?

[Rannygazoo]

That's possible but there's only one night that could have happened.

Yes, that’s the night that there was only one scum left.

NPOM’s boneheaded plowing through facts is exactly his progression as town in Mini Theme 2172. viewtopic.php?p=12318897#p12318897

[Rannygazoo]

Lists two scum in his early PoE

But decides to flash wagon the only Town because..???

Insinuating I knew?

This seems like a subtle defence of Zuko, and also a sly attempt to discredit me by making out I was defending SoS, but without naming me directly.

It wasn’t that sly. I literally said it when you asked.

I’m tired of rehashing SoS wagon vs Zuko wagon, but Zuko showed that he was willing to cooperate with town and SoS showed that he wasn’t. That’s it. No regrets.

[Rannygazoo]

I want a mass claim. I’m only going to be 100% sure that Datisi is town if Datisi is a PR that visited someone other than Salsa.

[Rannygazoo]

When I say mass claim, I mean Datisi should claim.

[Rannygazoo]

@Luca those were good profiles. Please profile yourself too because it’s not going to be the same coming from anyone else.

[Rannygazoo]

I don't get why Rannygazoo was suddenly willing to elim Saudade but not Zuko here, when Zuko was a bigger SR based on the VC in his next post?

The Zuko and SoS slots were too similar at that point, and I was suspicious of anyone wanting to move from one to the other because there didn’t seem like any good reason to. My suspicions aside, supporting both wagons would be “splitting the base” of people willing to wagon an inactive slot. It’s like in politics when two candidates with similar platforms run against each other. It’s bad for both campaigns.

Saudade was an entirely different flavor of scummy that I guess I was willing to pursue? I don’t really remember.

[Rannygazoo]

@Luca those were good profiles. Please profile yourself too because it’s not going to be the same coming from anyone else.

Are you being sarcastic or do you actually want me to towncase myself?

Yes

[Rannygazoo]

Maybe Luca? You (Ranny) could potentially be scum as well. I like your detailed explanation of Daisy but you hop off FB for a moment due to the claim maybe expecting others to do the same since that's what happened with Cook and when the pressure stays, you get annoyed and return your vote asking for a hammer. I do think you are town but scum could do a similar move with their backs against the wall here.

Luca had a good presence during the shig vote but has since dropped in town status for me.

NPOM/Datisi are the only two I don't see me ever voting. Elements is a hard push too but not impossible.

Confused why DN would track Datisi here.

What’s the problem? DN said this after tracking Datisi. From the looks of it, you might have been tracked too on an earlier day.

[Rannygazoo]

I think Elements is flailing without Daisy to scapegoat.

[Rannygazoo]

Does cop enabler also apply to (scum) vanilla cop? It feels a little anticlimactic if it only enables one slot. (I’m VT.)

[Rannygazoo]

If it does, and if Saudade was informed that Datisi’s role was in play, it explains why scum targeted the cop claims without hunting for the enabler.

[Rannygazoo]

@Elements how does it feel to have been hounding Daisy since page 1 only for her to flip town on day 4?

[Rannygazoo]

Like, how does that happen? Where do you think you went wrong?

[Rannygazoo]

I think it was Daisy being apathetic

Unsatisfying posts like this fur with my theory that scum had bad communication.

I’d like to think my solve in 1631 was only a little wrong.

[Rannygazoo]

Fur? That should say fit

[Rannygazoo]

Both Datisi and Luca have pointed out have I’ve voted Saudade over Zuko. I just... don’t know what that’s supposed to imply.

[Rannygazoo]

95% cleared

[Rannygazoo]

A millar that's a cop enabler and the mafia know they're a cop enabler
He's not just a Miller

The mafia know they’re not a cop enabler?

You’re tipping your hand here. No one but scum knows what Saudade was “informed” about.

[Rannygazoo]

do you think this game is 9:4 (with town having only 3 prs, two of which aren't even that strong until there's only one scum remaining) or that the nrg passed what would be a disgrace of a tracker + late-game ninja?

The latter. I have no opinion of nrg.

[Rannygazoo]

A millar that's a cop enabler and the mafia know they're a cop enabler
He's not just a Miller

@NPOM @Luca is this the smoking gun I think it is?

Pedit @Datisi answer too since you’re here

[Rannygazoo]

Wait, you actually expect me to read?

[Rannygazoo]

Your role had 5 parts. Can’t blame me for forgetting one.

[Rannygazoo]

Me
Datisi
NPOM
Luca
Elements

You fit a lot of the reasons that I voted Daisy for. I always said that it was hard to tell you two apart. Plus your insincere push on Saudade followed by resistance followed by hammering doesn’t look good.

I agree with Luca that NPOM being scum means they hard bussed two of their own, which feels unlikely. I also just don’t think NPOM is scum here.

Luca has been too good at solving to be likely scum. Tbh I don’t know how to read his interactions with Zuko and Saudade. Luca has been sure to remind us that he was in favor of eliminating Zuko, which feels more likely to be bussing than NPOM’s interactions. But I also think, no offense, Luca would have done better at coordinating with scum to avoid unnecessary elims.

Of course, I wouldn’t make a snap judgement if it came to ELo.

[Rannygazoo]

No, he’s trying to make it to elo

[Rannygazoo]

What question?

[Rannygazoo]

What’s your angle here? Make Luca the elim today and then kill me so NPOM gets suspicious that a nearly confirmed townie didn’t die?

[Rannygazoo]

VOTE: NPOM

Is this seriously who you think is scum or is this pressure?

It feels a little late for pressure votes.

[Rannygazoo]

my angle here is, if I get to tomorrow I get yeeted over anyone so I should be taken out today. We can all agree on that and move on to what the final three will be.

Fine with me. I’ll wait for everyone else to speak before voting.

[Rannygazoo]

@Luca Elements and I voted scum at about the same time. Can you clarify why you think I come out looking better?

[Rannygazoo]

@Elements why are you sure it’s not Luca?

[Rannygazoo]

Yeah ok I’ll wait for Luca and Datisi to post but I’ve made up my mind.

[Rannygazoo]

At this point I believe Datisi is Town and I’m willing to let him decide this elim.

Possibly NPOM is cleared? If that’s the case then eliminating Rannygazoo + elements guarantees a win fmpov. Right now I honestly have no idea which one is more likely to be scum.

This is less solvey than I’ve come to expect from you.

[Rannygazoo]

and i don't see a soft about npom specifically. like this was his first post d3.

Power came back this morning at 1 am. 3 days of cold and no water.

I'll be back soon assuming power doesn't cut it again. The game will be a welcome distraction.

kinda doubt that this was a "nopoweroverme did not go anywhere" crumb? idk

Lel. I think that was very real and not game-related.

I don’t think it’s *obvious* but I agree with NPOM that it looks like he was tracked, and DeathNote thinks he’s clear but it’s not 100% sure.

[Rannygazoo]

You just aren't going to answer my question about who you targeted are you?

Heck. This insistence from DN makes a lot of sense if FB was the track. DN thought he was scum but needed a claim to be sure. If FB didn’t answer honestly, DN could be sure it was scum.

So why did DN say he would never vote NPOM?

[Rannygazoo]

Even without trying to decipher night action crumbs, I still think this is right. VOTE: Elements

[Rannygazoo]

I think NPOM means he will accept no compromises on El being the elim today but he’s being cryptic about it.

[Rannygazoo]

Just tell us plainly what you mean, then

[Rannygazoo]

ngl i think this is solved going ranny > npom

or even npom > ranny

idk ranny is my logical choice for scum rn and npom is my ??????? choice for scum rn

How tf did you remove Elements from your POE? You said you've been mindmelding with Luca, but Elements?? The guy who did nothing all day but snipe at Daisy and insincerely shade scum when it was convenient?

I think that's a big mistake. I also wish Luca wouldn't put the pressure of a decision on you when it's clearly hard enough for you already.

[Rannygazoo]

Ranny's lack of gamesolving right now worries me.

Because I haven't posted in the last 12 hours? What do you want from me, my dude?

I already solved the game in 1631. I was only a little wrong when it came to Daisy.

Look at how the wagons on Saudade and Firebringer developed, though. There was never a super good case against either of them. They both just sort of happened without real opposition, even from Saudade and Firebringer themselves. Scum had communication and morale issues. So we can rule out Datisi and Luca. With Datisi capable of posts like 1142, he would have done something in the main thread to derail the wagons, or at least kept his buddy's spirits up in the scum pt. Luca would have kept his buddy in the game too.

So it's down to Elements or Daisy. There were no real interactions with Firebringer, so let's look at interactions with Saudade.

I feel like all we've been doing today is waiting for a

zuko

replacement so we can then eliminate

saudade

(Coloring mine) I don't see this coming from scum. Why call out your two buddies like that at once?

Luca, you said so yourself (too late for it to matter) that the above post is NAI. I had thought scum would be self-conscious about mentioning both buddies like that, but now it seems like El was voicing frustration that there was attention on both buddies for that day.

I still think day play points to the 3rd scum being El. If anyone disagrees, let's talk about it. These blind spots in your PoEs are worrying.

[Rannygazoo]

At this point I believe Datisi is Town and I’m willing to let him decide this elim.

Possibly NPOM is cleared? If that’s the case then eliminating Rannygazoo + elements guarantees a win fmpov. Right now I honestly have no idea which one is more likely to be scum.

This is less solvey than I’ve come to expect from you.

I think it's pretty understandable in the context of having two potential clears.

I just finished a game where I was in this exact position, with there being a conftown in a 4T v 1S scenario, and I said the exact same. When I'm not sure who is scum I am always fine letting the conftown decide, especially when I trust that player's judgement.

So the lesson learned is not to trust yourself? There goes the respect I had for you as a player.

I'm trying really really hard not to OMGUS Luca because I'm trying to understand how he's considering the possibility of scum!me setting up a win next day. What Luca doesn't understand is that I'm trying to stop the game from getting to next day!

[Rannygazoo]

Luca's vote made this game a lot more confusing.

To me too. It's like, the solution is right here, why are you doing this????

[Rannygazoo]

Elements your posts annoy me

Is this why you’ve cleared Elements in your mind, Datisi?

[Rannygazoo]

I fucking hate every post elements have ever made in this game

this game or ever?

This seems like a town!Elements case.

Imagine for a second that this is real, both in the game thread and the scum pt. Doesn’t this explain why Saudade was content to leave when he did?

[Rannygazoo]

Sure, is there a problem with that?

My case on you involves how little resistance there was on Saudade and FB’s wagons. I mean, both elims felt like they didn’t really have to happen when they did. It matches your involvement at the time.

lets go team
we can elim sausage before he even gets to the thread

geez where did all this sausage hate come from

I've sort of neglected this game for a bit, what have I missed?

I think this progression is telling.

Aside from that, you’ve been hard to read because you didn’t do much except feud with Daisy.

[Rannygazoo]

But this isnt how I normally play so If I do get hanged here I wont be particulary upset

@Datisi you have any theories about this?

[Rannygazoo]

I was hoping this wouldn't fall all on one person but it's looking like Datisi may end up being kingmaker here.

Not necessarily, but Datisi has the best case for being town here, so it would be unwise to make a decision without him.

[Rannygazoo]

But this isnt how I normally play so If I do get hanged here I wont be particulary upset

@Datisi you have any theories about this?

no, why?

I was hoping you’d offer something instead of just calling my case bad faith. :/

I mean, I’m sorry if it’s harsh, but that’s what it looks like to me.

[Rannygazoo]

No, that’s not quite what I’m saying. I don’t think Saudade hated El or wanted to spite him. I do think the Saudade found the team hard to work with since they were inactive, so he decided it was nbd if this one was a loss. And no one stepped up to defend Saudade (except for El’s thing I quoted above) or even call attention to a different wagon, so what am I supposed to make of that?

My focus was on the “I won’t be particularly upset”, not the “I’m posting differently”.

[Rannygazoo]

How so?

[Rannygazoo]

Pagetop

[Rannygazoo]

Why is El making a big deal out of me wanting Zuko to post or be replaced before acting on that slot, when this post exists?

We can elim Saudade today but there’s no rush. Let the replacement for Zuko enter the game first

[Rannygazoo]

VC 2.12

Saudade (4)

- DeathNote, NoPowerOverMe, Cook, Elements, Luca Blight, Rannygazoo

(GANKED)

OopsieDaisy (2)

- Datisi

Elements (1)

- OopsieDaisy

NoPowerOverMe(1)

- Saudade

Not Voting (3)

- Prince Zuko, Salsabil Faria

I think Rannygazoo is most likely Town. I'll go into why later. Elements is probably Town as well. If there's a busser then it's most likely NPOM, but possibly DeathNote. The lack of resistance to the wagon + Saudade's apathetic attitude points to him being hard-bussed.

It's also possible he just had inactive partners and was resigned to losing the game, in which case I'd say Daisy and Firebringer are likely to be his partners. I *think* Datisi and Salsa are Town, but I'll need to review again.

You never went into why later iirc.

Can you tell us what you were thinking then regarding me and El, and what changed?

[Rannygazoo]

At this point I believe Datisi is Town and I’m willing to let him decide this elim.

Possibly NPOM is cleared? If that’s the case then eliminating Rannygazoo + elements guarantees a win fmpov. Right now I honestly have no idea which one is more likely to be scum.

This is less solvey than I’ve come to expect from you.

I think it's pretty understandable in the context of having two potential clears.

I just finished a game where I was in this exact position, with there being a conftown in a 4T v 1S scenario, and I said the exact same. When I'm not sure who is scum I am always

fine letting the conftown decide

, especially when I trust that player's judgement.

I can't get over how weird this is. How is this the same player that said

Okie I did it! Read list time :3

Cook/Shigaraki:
Lumping these two together because they’ve both claimed cop and haven’t shown any signs of backing off of it. Vote me over these peeps please.

I get they have claimed cop, but

from your perspective you should be conftown, so I really don't get this mindset

. It feels like some deliberate reverse-psychology.

(Bolding mine in both quotes)

I'm starting to think that Luca is doing the exact thing he's accusing me of. Shading me so if we elim El, he has space to win on ELO.

It's just so inconsistent with what I've seen from Luca on previous days.

[Rannygazoo]

Anyone else think Luca is acting weird or am I OMGUSing?

[Rannygazoo]

Finished Phase 1 of my wiki.

Hey Datisi, I saw you were in the game where NPOM rolled scum. Do you have any m*ta insights to share?

[Rannygazoo]

i don't see the issue between those two lines

Day 1: "It's weird that you defer to a slot with higher utility (cop claims), since you should be conftown from your own perspective."

Day later: "I defer to this slot with higher utility (conftown unless ninja or ascetic or we're just plain misinterpreting DN), even though I'm conftown from my perspective."

[Rannygazoo]

i don't see the issue between those two lines

Day 1: "It's weird that you defer to a slot with higher utility (cop claims), since you should be conftown from your own perspective."

Day later: "I defer to this slot with higher utility (conftown unless ninja or ascetic or we're just plain misinterpreting DN), even though I'm conftown from my perspective."

the difference is that daisy's head was on the line and she wasn't trying to defend herself. here i'm very much saying that luca is town and we're deciding between the three of you. come on.

That shouldn't matter. Town should be able to think for themselves and solve even if there's heat on them.

[Rannygazoo]

Sigh. I don't really know what you mean.

[Rannygazoo]

Fine, I'll mention some things I did that others might not have noticed.

I'm cop lmao

Powerful and underrated post

I kept bringing this up because I was trying to bait a nightkill as VT like Shig did.

What are the odds Cook and Shig are both scum, counting on town to think one of the cop claims must be real?

It’s not a bad gambit. Vanilla cop is uncommon for these setups, right?

This is actually a townslip. When I said vanilla cop, I meant ungated cop. If I had been on a scum team with an actual vanilla cop, I would have know that it's a role in and of itself.

Saudade coming in high on bluster, low on content reminds me of scum!Flavor Leaf.

I didn't want to interact with Saudade after being scolded by Noraa, but all my interactions were along these lines. I never saw anything to townread about Saudade.

I can’t imagine what went down in that scum pt. Actually, I can. Nothing, because Daisy was gone and FB was alone.

FB’s claim was so weird that I don’t know whether or not he actually thought he was hammered or if it was just AtE. What is clear is that he didn’t have time to think his claim through, which probably means there was no one to discuss it with.

Ultimately we agree that Daisy is the best choice, and guessing what Salsa might have done isn’t enough of a reason to skip over the slot.

I STILL THINK THIS LOGIC IS RIGHT, just replace Daisy with El

[Rannygazoo]

like idk if i can get over the fact that saudade was arguing with everyone alive at some point other than ranny

Do bear in mind that a mod intervened between us?

[Rannygazoo]

Literally iso me and look for the mod colors editing my post, and the mod posts after that

[Rannygazoo]

Like you said, not a good time. (I was just having fun with Saudade. Not a good time getting scolded by mods.)

[Rannygazoo]

the only thing bothering me about elements is that they lowkey disappeared when fire was getting run up
ranny also wasn't present too much unless to slap the e-1 vote on tho ehhhh idk

I actually think my interactions with FB were quite towny.

I voted him out of annoyance because he was spewing.

When he claimed (pretending to think he was hammered) and I saw how high the wagon was, I unvoted to step back and reconsider.

When he couldn't back up his claim, I put my vote back and asked for a hammer when he started spewing again.

Then El showed up out of nowhere?

[Rannygazoo]

scum theater?

Please don't with this. Some things are Just Not Fun.

People said this about me in my newbie game too when scum was counterclaiming me, and I really hated how I was being antagonized.

[Rannygazoo]

Like, looking back on it, I should have talked to the mod about it, or just left and never looked back.

[Rannygazoo]

he was calling ele's posts trash

That's... not the same thing as scum

[Rannygazoo]

the only thing bothering me about elements is that they lowkey disappeared when fire was getting run up
ranny also wasn't present too much unless to slap the e-1 vote on tho ehhhh idk

I actually think my interactions with FB were quite towny.

I voted him out of annoyance because he was spewing.

When he claimed (pretending to think he was hammered) and I saw how high the wagon was, I unvoted to step back and reconsider.

When he couldn't back up his claim, I put my vote back and asked for a hammer when he started spewing again.

Then El showed up out of nowhere?

I don't think that elim would have happened if not for me. Maybe you can look back on it and form a different opinion, but there wasn't a real reason to elim FB there, until the bad claim that I squeezed out of him.

Do you really think it would have played out that way if we shared a scum pt?

[Rannygazoo]

He claimed because of my vote, where he pretended to think he was hammered.

[Rannygazoo]

[Rannygazoo]

So we’re both scum??????