Open 94 - Trendy and Subversive C9(Over) before 672

[Megatheory]

/confirm

Wow, I thought this game would never start :p

[Megatheory]

I'm obviously scum. Please lynch me.

Can't argue with that!

Vote: Crazy

[Megatheory]

Unvote

Vote: populartajo

For not answering the question.

Good point. Why is populartajo being evasive here?

Unvote:
Vote: populartajo

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 25):

populartajo - 2(Empking, Megatheory)
Crazy - 1(orangepenguin)
orangepenguin - 1(Crazy)
Megatheory - 1(populartajo)

Not Voting:Jex, Raging Rabbit.

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[Megatheory]

What are you guys talking about?

Random votes are kinda useless in a 7 player game, nay? I'll go for an alternative method to start some conversation.

Jex, are you scum?

Populartajo, same question. Also, any reason for these pairings other than free association?

[Megatheory]

Oh, of course you're not scum. After all, we all know you're alignment. Oh wait, we don't.

Your flippant dismissal of this issue and continuing to dodge the question makes me happy with my vote.

[Megatheory]

Raging Rabbit asked you if there was any reason for the pairing you posted.

[Megatheory]

Raging Rabbit asked you if there was any reason for the pairing you posted.

I already said it was random. Joke. Some dumb pairings that could be true and bring me fame when the game is finished.
Now, please tell me you didnt confirm your vote on page 2.

You could have said that several posts ago. Why didn't you?

I don't want to lynch you, but you are the most suspicious so far.

[Megatheory]

Unvote:

Apparently this is a misunderstanding that was carried too far. I found you suspicious because instead of pointing out that you did answer the question, you decided to brush off the idea that you didn't like it was nothing.

[Megatheory]

Unvote:

Apparently this is a misunderstanding that was carried too far. I found you suspicious because instead of pointing out that you did answer the question, you decided to brush off the idea that you didn't like it was nothing.

Mmmm. Why were you sure about me? Didnt you think I could be a townie?

I explain why I found you suspicious in the post you quoted. I thought at the time that you didn't answer the question which was enough for a vote at the time. I found you truly suspicious because, like I said, you tried to blow off the issue like it was nothing.

At this point, you could be scum or town.

[Megatheory]

Unvote:

Apparently this is a misunderstanding that was carried too far. I found you suspicious because instead of pointing out that you did answer the question, you decided to brush off the idea that you didn't like it was nothing.

Mmmm. Why were you sure about me? Didnt you think I could be a townie?

I explain why I found you suspicious in the post you quoted. I thought at the time that you didn't answer the question which was enough for a vote at the time. I found you truly suspicious because, like I said, you tried to blow off the issue like it was nothing.

At this point, you could be scum or town.

Do you always vote this fast?

At the time, I thought a second vote was warranted.

Um, sorry. Don't think anyone really needs prodding. Most people aren't just going to keep posting in the random stage though, even if we should.

unvote

Do you have anything to say about tajo and myself?

You guys really shouldn't of forced that to fizzle out. I've got my eyes on you.

Vote: Empking

How is ending an argument over an obvious misunderstanding suspicious at all?

You kept us in the random voting stage. That's not good.

Who is still random voting? Is there anything posted since page 2 that doesn't look like serious discussion to you?

OMGZ HAI FARSIDE!!!!

Empking, if an argument has been proven pointless, then there's no need to continue it. We'll find another topic to discuss.

FoS Crazy

Avoiding discussion while prodding others to discuss is scummy.

It doesn't seem like you are though.

Hey, I gave my opinion on the Tajo-Megatheory argument. I can't do anything more until someone else says something.

Yes you can. There's plenty to comment on right now. Why aren't you scumhunting?

[Megatheory]

FoS Crazy Avoiding discussion while prodding others to discuss is scummy.

Where do you come up with this crap? Show me where I avoided discussion. I commented about the Tajo-you thing, and that was all there was. It's Page 3; did you fail to notice that?

Do you have anything to say about empking or maybe orangepenguin? There's more going on then you are pretending there is.

[Megatheory]

So in page 3 you already know who's scum....
Ill tell you somethin. Im the nurse. You?
And can you comment on other players as well?

/facepalm

WHAT THE HELL??? What an incredibly lame time to claim.

I'll post more later, I'm a little out of it right now.

[Megatheory]

Yup, "are you scum?" is clearly the question tajo didn't answer. The way Megatheory echoed Empking's vote on tajo for his lack of answer and then backed off when tajo explained how he answered the other question is very suspicious, makes me think MT didn't really think about which question wasn't answered in the first place and rather voted for tajo out of sheer desire to get someone lynched. In post 40 he says "at this point, you could be scum or town" which is completely redundant, very possibly scum who wants to make his pretended lack of special knowledge extra clear to everyone. Also his FOS on Crazy was uncalled for, again makes me think he's trying to throw suspicion around.

Vote Meagatheory.

I thought he didn't answer the question regarding the pairs he posted. This should be abundantly clear as that is the question I pointed out here:

Raging Rabbit asked you if there was any reason for the pairing you posted.

This was all a misunderstanding. Regardless, I voted for him to push for discussion. It was the only thing I saw that,

at the time

, I found suspicious so I voted to press it further.

Yes because scum can't lie and pretend they didn't see the question, can they?

I think you're scum.

I think the fact that Megatheory was just following what I said with seemingly no thought in it or checking the facts first is quite scummy.

I thought it was solved with your admittance that you didn't answer the question.

So basically you think tajo and I are both scum and I pushed him to distance, correct?

So in page 3 you already know who's scum....

Why do you keep distorting suspicions against you as having a great deal of certainty?

Why does farside think Megatheory isnt scummy?

His quick vote was scummy. His reasoning and explanination makes me feel he is less scummy.
Still say crazy, empking or RR one of those 3 is scum. Leaning more on crazy/ empking combo.

What do you like of his reasoning to erase that scummy backtrack?

Apparently correcting a blatantly obvious mistake is scummy. I'll be sure to never do that in the future.

I dont think Crazy is scum.

I see crazy following empking too much for my taste.

What do you like of his reasoning to erase that scummy backtrack?

Where do you see he backtracked? Was it the hey you didn't answer oh I see it now comment or something else I missed?

I dont like how he confirmed his vote in page 2.

This doesn't fit. First of all, confirming a vote is the exact opposite of backtracking.

Second, I never said I confirmed my vote. My vote was initially just an early game press, but it became a "this person is genuinely scummy" vote when you got obstinate. How can you still say I confirmed my vote after I posted this:

I don't want to lynch you, but you are the most suspicious so far.

Since this is such a sticky issue with you, please explain exactly what you think confirming a vote means and why that makes me suspicious.

orangepenguin is trying really hard to not post anything of consequence. If he doesn't post content soon, my vote will be moving to him.

[Megatheory]

Empking is probably scum. He seems to change positions every other post. It could be that he is not being understood, but it's more likely he's scum.

Empking, if you are town, you have to make a serious effort to be clear and precise. The way you're playing right now, it looks like you will be the lynch.

Confirming a vote is not suspicious as long as you've presented a solid case and you honestly don't plan on changing it. So I don't think that's really a big deal, tajo.


Mega, it's Day 1, we basically just got out of the random stage, we're on Page 4. I'm not going to jump on a wagon that I don't agree with and basically get involved in a ridiculous argument that was shortly resolved later. I mostly just sit on the sidelines in the initial stage of all games I am, unless I am directly involved. Probably not the best play, no, and I am trying to improve on that. But, like I said, it's still REALLY early. If you want content, I'll try to give to content. Not sure exactly what you mean of consequence. (Do you mean post something significant or important or something?)

If you want me to comment on anything in particular, please call me on it. I am not trying to ignore EVERYTHING. (There has been literally 50 different things going on, and it's been a couple days, and only a few players. I'm not ignoring anything, FYI) I don't have anything fresh, though, to bring to the table right now.

Please analyze that, sentence by sentence, if you must, and I'll get back to you, I suppose.

My priorities: RL > MS, btw.

The problem with this is that we can't get a read on you during one of the times when scum are most vulnerable. Rather than make an effort to scumhunt, you've decided to punt and give the scum more control over the game.

So basically you think tajo and I are both scum and I pushed him to distance, correct?

Personally I think tajo's town (the unnecessary nurse claim pretty much confimrs him, assuming he isn't counterclaimed) and you just dittoed a case you didn't bother seriously contemplating to throw more pressure his way.

Actually, I did look back in the thread to see what Empking was talking about. Somehow I missed that tajo did actually answer the question I thought he didn't answer.

This whole "you're suspicious because you made a mistake and tried to correct it" thing is really bad scumhunting. Because, after all, townies never,

ever

make mistakes, right?

Farside + Empking argument = What the?

This is a great way to comment on Farside/Empking without really saying anything. Are you saying you are confused by the argument? Does either party look suspicious to you?

I'm sorry but on page 1 could you give a better one?

To leave the random stage we have to find something scummy or random bandwagon. You did something scummy so we need to vote you.

Megatheory felt vey confident about me. On page 2. Then he explained it was a misunderwstanding. Not sure if I buy that yet.
And you brought this again even though you're saying that my scummy action was to take us out of the random stage. It took us out of that. It was a silly case. Why did you resurrect it?

Could you please answer the points I brought up in my last post? Either you didn't see it or there's something there you don't like. I'll post it again for you:

So in page 3 you already know who's scum....

Why do you keep distorting suspicions against you as having a great deal of certainty?

Why does farside think Megatheory isnt scummy?

His quick vote was scummy. His reasoning and explanination makes me feel he is less scummy.
Still say crazy, empking or RR one of those 3 is scum. Leaning more on crazy/ empking combo.

What do you like of his reasoning to erase that scummy backtrack?

Apparently correcting a blatantly obvious mistake is scummy. I'll be sure to never do that in the future.

I dont think Crazy is scum.

I see crazy following empking too much for my taste.

What do you like of his reasoning to erase that scummy backtrack?

Where do you see he backtracked? Was it the hey you didn't answer oh I see it now comment or something else I missed?

I dont like how he confirmed his vote in page 2.

This doesn't fit. First of all, confirming a vote is the exact opposite of backtracking.

Second, I never said I confirmed my vote. My vote was initially just an early game press, but it became a "this person is genuinely scummy" vote when you got obstinate. How can you still say I confirmed my vote after I posted this:

I don't want to lynch you, but you are the most suspicious so far.

Since this is such a sticky issue with you, please explain exactly what you think confirming a vote means and why that makes me suspicious.

[Megatheory]

This is a great way to comment on Farside/Empking without really saying anything. Are you saying you are confused by the argument? Does either party look suspicious to you?

You're really starting to annoy me, you know. I'm ready to OMGUS your brains out. Excuse me, but I'm not going to comment on every single word on this topic. Yes, that argument does confuse me, and to be honest I really couldn't get anything out of it. The only thing I can gather from that is that Empking and Farside are not scum together.

Well,

excuse me

for not letting the scum keep their heads down while the townies lynch each other. The most interesting thing here is that you basically admitted that your comment didn't say anything.

And what's with you accusing Tajo? Don't you know he's confirmed town?

Even though fakeclaiming is practically suicidal in this setup, he really isn't confirmed, he just hasn't been counterclaimed. We might have a cop that doesn't want to out himself yet. I do think he is town, for the most part. Mostly, I'm trying to get him to take a serious look at this ridiculous case he has against me.

[Megatheory]

Well, excuse me for not letting the scum keep their heads down while the townies lynch each other. The most interesting thing here is that you basically admitted that your comment didn't say anything.

Yeah, I know, I just wanted to reply to RR without looking like I was ignoring the Empking-Farside thing. I just really can't determine much of anything from that argument.

Fair enough.

[Megatheory]

Empking's case on Farside is completely unconvincing, not sure if he's scum or misguided town at this point though. I get a stronger bad vibe from MG, whose "mistake" gives I believe is more likely to come from scum eager to throw a vote, and after his quick backtrack the sentence "at this point, you could be scum or town" is very scummy imo.

You're not even willing to consider the possibility that I'm town. If a townie makes the mistake I made, how are they supposed to correct it? Does continuing on with an obvious mistake sound like good town play to you?

Further, how should I have read populartajo? Should I have assumed he was scum even though my initial push on him was a mistake? Should I have assumed he was town? Saying I had no read (which is essentially what I said) was the only logical response.

Has also attacked Crazy twice for bad reasons.

Crazy admitted that he didn't say anything in his comment about Empking/farside. Did you miss this post?

Well, excuse me for not letting the scum keep their heads down while the townies lynch each other. The most interesting thing here is that you basically admitted that your comment didn't say anything.

Yeah, I know, I just wanted to reply to RR without looking like I was ignoring the Empking-Farside thing. I just really can't determine much of anything from that argument.

Megatheory I just cant answer that post. Tomorrow, kay? And yes you did confirm your vote. In page 2. It really bothers me why you thought I was so scum in that exact moment. Didnt you think it could have been a misunderstanding? Or you were just trying to press me?

This is ridiculous. When I finally realized it was a misunderstanding, I unvoted and copped to it

and I'm still suspicious.

The case against me makes absolutley positively no sense whatsoever.

And, yes, I was trying to press you. That's how you get out of the random stage and find scum.

Oh, and if there is a real cop or nurse, CLAIM!

'Cause Megatheory's play seems more calculated , the manner in which he quickly backed away from tajo for example is imo indicative of scum afraid to be caught in the spotlight of a misguided wagon. Also his subtle nudges against Crazy for reasons that don't actually make any sense.

I followed someone without thinking it through, but my play is more calculated. Riiiiiiiiight...

Oh, and first I was attacking Crazy, now they're subtle nudges.

[Megatheory]

Unvote Vote Raging Rabbit

I think you're scum. You're deliberately avoiding issues I've raised against your case. Your last post is basically repeating what you've already said. You're just pushing against me without really thinking it all the way through.

Off course there's a possibilty you're town, never said I was sure of anything, just that you're my best suspect. No reason for you to play the martyr here.

I'm not playing the martyr. I'm pointing out that you're saying over and over that scum would do this or that the way I didn't without explaining how a townie would do it. Without providing a counterexample of what you think protown play would look like, you're basically asserting that I'm scum without backing it up in any way.

I think town is less likely to make the 'mistake' you made, less likely to attack that hard in the first place...

Fair enough. As I've explained before to tajo (twice, I believe) I was pressing tajo to move the game forward.

... and less likely to retract in the manner that you did.

So how would a townie retract? It's the cornerstone of your case, so you have to back it up.

... I mean, what point is there in saying he can be either scum or town other than making it abundently clear to everyone you have no extra knowledge? I believe the manner in which you withdrew your case shows your intention was to avoid being attacked for it...

I asked you what my read should have been and you dodged it. So I'll ask you again. What should my read have been?

... the way you used the unvote as some sort of proof in your response to tajo supports this.

Tajo said I should have recognized my mistake. I was emphasizing that I did regonize it and took steps to correct it.

And, no, this doesn't support your theory that I was avoiding suspicion until you can demonstrate what read a townie should have on tajo at that time.

You followed to push the wagon, then when pressed stepped back...

Pressed? How was I pressed? I corrected my mistake because tajo pointed out when he did answer the question regarding the pairs he posted. Where is the pressure there? Please show me.

You attacked Crazy twice, for what I consider bad reasons, but not too strongly, and voted for Empking.

Maybe the first push on Crazy was too hard, but, as I pointed out (something you dodged), the second was correct and he even admitted it. All game I have been trying to ensure that everyone is contributing, and both of my attacks on Crazy revovle around that.

I never said you were a mastermind, just that I believe the thinking behind your posts is more likely from a scum point of view, while Empking's actions make no sense regardless of alignment.

You can't keep assering this over and over again without explaining what yout think a townie would have done in my position.

* * *
Orangepenguin, it's about time you started seriously contributing. There's no way you can keep avoiding the game the way you have unless you are bad scum or you truly have no idea what's going on.

populartajo, I hope we're going to see that response to my post pretty soon. I hope you're going to take a serious look at your case, because if you don't Raging Rabbit is going to have an easy time hiding behind a claimed power role.

[Megatheory]

MT, you say I'm avoiding "issues" you raised against my case, but the only thing you said over and over in that big post is that I didn't explain how exactly a townie should react.

Actually I said a number of things in that post, and you are ignoring them. They are:
- If a neutral read on tajo is supicious, then what read should I have had?
- You asserted that I backed off from tajo because I was pressed, yet you've never shown where this pressure was coming from.
- Crazy admitted that my second push on him was valid.

Townies can obviously react in many ways, so I don't see why this is so relevant, obviouly more than one 'townie' reaction is possible.

I believe that this is relevant because it demonstrates your one-dimensional view of me. You are charactarizing almost everything I do as suspicious. I have news for you, Raging Rabbit; correcting a misunderstanding is protown. Expressing a neutral read on someone invovled in said misunderstanding is protown, too, but of course you know that. That's why you're avoiding it.

Call it a gutshot read if you must, but I generally do not expect townies to say things like "I don't want to lynch you, but you're the most suspicious so far"...

This conflicts with the reason you gave in the post where you voted me:

Yup, "are you scum?" is clearly the question tajo didn't answer. The way Megatheory echoed Empking's vote on tajo for his lack of answer and then backed off when tajo explained how he answered the other question is very suspicious, makes me think MT didn't really think about which question wasn't answered in the first place and rather

voted for tajo out of sheer desire to get someone lynched

. In post 40 he says "at this point, you could be scum or town" which is completely redundant, very possibly scum who wants to make his pretended lack of special knowledge extra clear to everyone. Also his FOS on Crazy was uncalled for, again makes me think he's trying to throw suspicion around.

Vote Meagatheory.

I'm suspicious for saying I didn't want to lynch tajo, but I'm also suspicious because I voted tajo out of the sheer desire to get someone lynched. These ideas do not fit together at all.

This is what makes me think you are scum, Raging Rabbit. You have not put any thought into my case besides what you can produce to make me look like scum. There is no investigation here. There is no consideration of possibilities. You are not trying to lynch scum, you are trying to lynch someone you saw make a mistake.

They give off the vibe you're making an active effort to appear to scumhunt and show off your townie motives.

Every player, Scum or town, tries to give off the vibe that they're scumhuting. Every player, scum or town, tries to appear like a townie. You are essentially accusing me of appearing like every other mafia player but doing a bad job.

[Megatheory]

I think Empking is scum. Thoughts?

RR is much more likely to be scum then Empking. Empking's problems could be explained by bad play, but I don't have such an explanation for RR.

Empking is probably scum. He seems to change positions every other post. It could be that he is not being understood, but it's more likely he's scum.

Can I have a bit of evidence to go with that claim.

Did MT answer that?

I should probably go back and read your argument with farside again. Right now I'm not so convinced that you are scum as I once was.

Mmm Farside is prob town.
But Empking also strikes me as town. He wouldnt have revived this thread asking for his innocence if he were scum.
I have the feeling that there's one scum between RR and Orange.
Need to reread.

I will read crazy again because I had my thoughts on him at one point. I feel like there is a scum pair with RR and Empking because as I said everything that RR calls out on Mega, Empking is just as guilty of. I mean why call out one person and not another.

Can we lynch RR first, then?

[Megatheory]

Raging Rabbit, since this is such a big sticking point with you, let's let's look at the situation again.

Raging Rabbit asked you if there was any reason for the pairing you posted.

I already said it was random. Joke. Some dumb pairings that could be true and bring me fame when the game is finished.

Now, please tell me you didnt confirm your vote on page 2.

Tajo asked me if I was confirming my vote. Now, I've never got a straight answer from him on what exactly he thinks it means to confirm a vote. At the time, I thought it would mean you wanted to lynch someone. Since he asked, I wanted to clarify, so I posted this:

Raging Rabbit asked you if there was any reason for the pairing you posted.

I already said it was random. Joke. Some dumb pairings that could be true and bring me fame when the game is finished.
Now, please tell me you didnt confirm your vote on page 2.

You could have said that several posts ago. Why didn't you?

I don't want to lynch you, but you are the most suspicious so far.

There is no other logical response. No townie would want to lynch someone on page 2 except under very unusual circumstances, and such circumstances do not exist here.

You've implied numerous times that I said this to appear protown when clearly I said this to respond to tajo. This is further evidence of trying to skewer me over a mistake instead of trying to determine if I'm really scum or not.

- If a neutral read on tajo is supicious, then what read should I have had?

A neutral read in itself is not suspicous, specifically stating that you now think he could be scum or town is going out of your way to show you have no extra knowledge and thus is suspicious. I would expect a townie to just say "oh, made a mistake" rather than "oh, made a mistake. I now know nothing about what side you're on!"

I didn't say that when I recongized my mistake. I said this when tajo later asked me questions regarding how certain I was. You're trying to make it appear like I was freaking out over a mistake when that isn't the case.

You asserted that I backed off from tajo because I was pressed, yet you've never shown where this pressure was coming from.

Tajo himself. Maybe "pressed" isn't the best way to put it, but you were certainly questioned.

Only the wussiest scum ever would back off of their target just because their target was questioning them. I have a really hard time believing you are town when you post nonsense like this.

Crazy admitted that my second push on him was valid.

So?

You have said at least twice that you find me suspicious for pressing Crazy twice "for bad reasons." How can the second time be for bad reasons also when Crazy admitted that it was valid?

I believe that this is relevant because it demonstrates your one-dimensional view of me. You are charactarizing almost everything I do as suspicious. I have news for you, Raging Rabbit; correcting a misunderstanding is protown. Expressing a neutral read on someone invovled in said misunderstanding is protown, too, but of course you know that. That's why you're avoiding it.

I never said I'm sure you are scum, my view of you isn't any more one-dimensional that of any other player who's voting his best suspect. I haven't been avoiding anything. Your jury tactics are pretty silly.

Up until this post you had been avoiding issues. Why didn't you respond to those things earlier? You are characterizing almost everything I do as suspicious without investigating the context or validity of some of them. You are tunneling hard on my case despite the evidence and you are doing it in a way that makes me think you are scum.

-----------------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 200):

Megatheory - 1(Raging Rabbit)
Empking - 1(farside22)
Raging Rabbit - 2(Crazy, Megatheory)
farside22 - 1(Empking)

Not Voting:orangepenguin, populartajo

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.