Open 94 - Trendy and Subversive C9(Over) before 672

[Crazy]

/confirm

I've actually never played a 7-player game on this forum. I'm looking forward to the paranoia of it all.

[Crazy]

Vote: orangepenguin

For putting a joke, or at least a small parcel of randomness into his /confirm post. This is a definite scumtell, because scum just receiving their role PM and discovering they are scum will be very excited and more likely to make jokes in their confirm posts.

OP is obvscum for realz, dude.

[Crazy]

Random votes are kinda useless in a 7 player game, nay? I'll go for an alternative method to start some conversation.

I disagree. I actually think they're more effective in small games than in larger games.

[Crazy]

2 votes are a serious wagon here, so I'm against throwing them around carelessly. Do you consider your vote on Penguin random, btw?

If scum want to hammer someone on Page 2, fine, then we lynch them the next day. Since we're not playing with newbies, we don't have to worry about some random quicklynch.

And yes, my vote on OP was randomish.

[Crazy]

I agree with Tajo's side in this silly argument. He did answer the question, and I believe in Post 28 he was thinking that the question was "are you scum," hence his flippant response.

As well, I can see how Megatheory might misinterpret that Tajo was avoiding the question by answering a different one. The only thing suspicious is Megatheory jumping on Empking's vote. I just think that if he would have looked back, he probably would have seen that Tajo had answered the question.

[Crazy]

OMGZ HAI FARSIDE!!!!

Empking, if an argument has been proven pointless, then there's no need to continue it. We'll find another topic to discuss.

[Crazy]

It doesn't seem like you are though.

Hey, I gave my opinion on the Tajo-Megatheory argument. I can't do anything more until someone else says something.

---------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 50):

populartajo - 1(Empking)
orangepenguin - 1(Crazy)
Megatheory - 1(populartajo)

Not Voting:farside22, Raging Rabbit, Megatheory,orangepenguin.

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[Crazy]

FoS Crazy Avoiding discussion while prodding others to discuss is scummy.

Where do you come up with this crap? Show me where I avoided discussion. I commented about the Tajo-you thing, and that was all there was. It's Page 3; did you fail to notice that?

[Crazy]

FoS Crazy Avoiding discussion while prodding others to discuss is scummy.

Where do you come up with this crap? Show me where I avoided discussion. I commented about the Tajo-you thing, and that was all there was. It's Page 3; did you fail to notice that?

Do you have anything to say about empking or maybe orangepenguin? There's more going on then you are pretending there is.

Empking seems paranoid and very weird, though I don't see any of his behavior as scummy.

Orangepenguin hasn't posted enough for me to really get anything from him.

[Crazy]

On second thought, I like Megatheory less now.

Unvote, Vote Megatheory

Post 25 he follows Empking's reasons and votes Tajo, despite that Tajo had actually answered the question. I think Megatheory didn't even bother to check if Tajo did or not.

In Post 53 he follows Empking's poor logic again and FoS's me for trying to avoid discussion. Again, if he'd actually bothered to check the thread, he'd noticed that I have actually said things.

Summary: Empking uses terrible logic, but MT is following it for some reason.

[Crazy]

If you are a cop or a nurse and not Tajo, claim now, because that means Tajo is scum. If nobody counter-claims, then Tajo is cleared and likely will be night-killed tonight.

I agree with farside here. It's really stupid to expect anyone to answer a question of "are you scum," since really, it doesn't take any special skill to say "No."

RR put Megatheory at L-1. Did you want him to be lynched or did you not realize it was L-1?

Unvote
Vote Raging Rabbit

[Crazy]

Why would crazy think weird or paranoid over scummy. I just see some serious defense of scum buddies in my eyes.

When I play mafia and I see someone acting oddly, I try to think, "Why would scum do this?" If I can't come up with a decent answer, then it's not scummy.

[Crazy]

Scum could prefer to avoid the WIFOM trap there, easier to ignore the question.

Saying "I am not scum" is WIFOM? Seriously? o_0

[quote="RR]He wasn't at L-1, only the two of us were voting for him. [/quote]
False. Tajo was voting him. He unvoted after you put him at L-1.

Farside + Empking argument = What the?

[Crazy]

No Tajo was voting Megatheory.

Duh. That's who RR put at L-1.

This is a great way to comment on Farside/Empking without really saying anything. Are you saying you are confused by the argument? Does either party look suspicious to you?

You're really starting to annoy me, you know. I'm ready to OMGUS your brains out. Excuse me, but I'm not going to comment on every single word on this topic. Yes, that argument does confuse me, and to be honest I really couldn't get anything out of it. The only thing I can gather from that is that Empking and Farside are not scum together.

And what's with you accusing Tajo? Don't you know he's confirmed town?

[Crazy]

Well, excuse me for not letting the scum keep their heads down while the townies lynch each other. The most interesting thing here is that you basically admitted that your comment didn't say anything.

Yeah, I know, I just wanted to reply to RR without looking like I was ignoring the Empking-Farside thing. I just really can't determine much of anything from that argument.

Even though fakeclaiming is practically suicidal in this setup, he really isn't confirmed, he just hasn't been counterclaimed. We might have a cop that doesn't want to out himself yet. I do think he is town, for the most part. Mostly, I'm trying to get him to take a serious look at this ridiculous case he has against me.

I'd be shocked if the real cop/nurse didn't counterclaim right now. If anything, everyone can at least state whether we counterclaim or not. That way, we can at least figure that he's confirmed town.

I do not counterclaim Tajo, obviously.

[Crazy]

Crazy, why did you believe my claim so fast?

Well, I doubt scum would throw out a fake-claim when they felt bad, but I only really assumed you were town when you weren't counter-claimed.

(Busy right now, will post more tomorrow, just answering a question)

[Crazy]

Let's see here:

Tajo I believe is confirmed town, at least at this point with no counter-claim.

I feel that Megatheory is town. It just sounds like he's trying hard to scum-hunt, looking at all the options, and putting in some good, solid, effort. Stuff you see more often from town than from scum.

The Empking/farside argument is utterly ridiculous. I don't believe that they're scum together, but it's so strange that they both see the other as complete 100% scum based on completely stupid reasons IMO. So I think it's likely that at least one of them is scum.

Orangepenguin hasn't contributed much, so I don't have much of a read on him. I can't disapprove of his attitude, since real life has gotten in the way for me recently as well.

I find RR scummy by means of my gut. Or perhaps it's just hard to shake off him putting MT at L-1 "unintentionally". Meh.

[Crazy]

Prodded. Thinking.

I'd bet more that Empking is town than Farside. /speculate

[Crazy]

Most people who have read are speculating that. Why not answer why you think that.

Hunch. Not based on Empking's case on you. Frankly, that sucked. But your reaction to that was OMGUS-y.

[Crazy]

Most people who have read are speculating that. Why not answer why you think that.

Hunch. Not based on Empking's case on you. Frankly, that sucked. But your reaction to that was OMGUS-y.

I voted for him way before he voted for me so exactly how is is OMGUS?

Oh yeah, I guess you're right.

Dang, I need to reread.

[Crazy]

Just picked up my prod. I'm here, so I don't need to be replaced.

I will read and post stuff later.

[Crazy]

Just reread. I need to do that more.

The scum in this game are playing very well because I have no idea whom they are.

The farside vs. Empking was the most interesting read. Empking is just full of crap. Entirely. I don't know where he gets his attacks but none of them even come close to being decent. Farside didn't lie; that was a misunderstanding. Why would scum lie about something so arbitrary to begin with?

I don't care for either side of the RR/MT argument. I dunno, it's just an argument over semantics. Right now both of them look fairly pro-town to me, so I don't really want to lynch either of them.

Farside's posts all seem appropriate for a townie that is being attacked with crap. I don't have any problem with her atm.

Maybe OP is busy, or whatever, but you know I'm not one to speak, since this is about one of the 3 games that I haven't posted as much as I should. However, by process of elimination alone, I think he's quite likely to be scum.

I think it's Empking and OP.

Unvote, Vote: Empking

[Crazy]

^Yeah, farside is right.

Empking, all you're doing is emphasizing some arbitrary point and somehow saying that it's scummy.

[Crazy]

Doing something that is obviously not a mistake and calling it a mistake when tyheir is no pro-town motivation for doing it it scummy.

Not a bad answer, but you can't just look at town motivation... then you'd never be able to see the difference between scummy and anti-town. You need to see if there was any

scum

motivation. Now, what possible motivation would farside have for "lying" about something so arbitrary as whether Pop answered a question/which question he answered, etc.?

[Crazy]

(At first, I had intended to bring up this to prove Empking wrong, but upon rereading this thing again, I found he actually has a point... in some warped universe that is.)

Let's see the chronology of this issue:

-RR asks Jex if she is scum. He asks Tajo the same question, and also asks about the pairings.

-Tajo answers the question about the pairings and either ignores or doesn't see the question "are you scum?"

-Empking votes Tajo for not answering "Are you scum?"

-Megatheory follows this wagon and apparently thinks that it was the

other

question (the one about the pairings) that Tajo didn't answer.

-Farside replaces in, votes Empking for using craplogic, says "I don't see how pop didn't answer that question."

-Empking proceeds to vote Farside.

Unvote: Empking

He's actually right. His case on Farside is extremely weak, and hardly comes close to proving farside scummy, but now I can vouch that he's not pulling this stuff out of his butt.

Farside also looks okay in that whole mess... except for perhaps this quote:

On my read thru I got 2 people that stuck out for different reasons others are low on the radar.

Post 24 from empking. I don't see how pop didn't answer the question. post 43 could not be more blah if you tried. Post 46. What?@?@ pOST 55 I ask agian What??!

Post 25 from Megath is quick to jump on that BW. Hmm many post of pushing the issue of pops comment. Not scummy just interesting.

If Empking's vote on Tajo was as crappy as you say it is, then why didn't you find MT jumping on it as scummy? Isn't that even worse? Using the phrase "not scummy just interesting" is weasely, and dare I say it, scummy.

I also don't like OP that much. It just seems like he's avoiding posting any controversial content, just reiterating what everyone else has said, just trying to hitch a ride to endgame. His only real vote has been this last one, where he's voting for Empking as a deadline lynch.

I'll

Vote: OP

. If he's scum, it's not like he's going to give away his partners tomorrow. If he's town, he's not really going to help us much.

-----------------------------

Super Accurate* Vote Count(as of post 235):

Megatheory - 1(Raging Rabbit)
Empking - 1(orangepenguin )
Raging Rabbit - 1(Megatheory)
farside22 - 1(Empking)
Crazy - 1(populartajo)
orangepenguin - 1(farside22,Crazy)

Not Voting:

*Not guaranteed to be accurate.

[Crazy]

Anyone else notice the complete irony and contradiction of this post by RR?

But clearly if said questioning makes the scum look bad and suddenly think there's something wrong with his case that others may find scummy, it makes sense for him to unvote and say he made a mistake and has no read now to prevent himself from looking bad.

I've a feeling we're starting to go circular here, and tunnel in on each other. I don't really have too strong a read on anyone else at this point, I'll reread this in the near future and try to come up with more.

Like, uhh, doing the exact same thing in Paragraph #2 that he's accusing MT of doing in Paragraph #1?

You know, after reading

again

, RR's case on MT is extremely weak. And I'm not talking Empking-standard weak. I mean scum-weak.

Also, in response to RR's case on me, I frequently change my positions on people after rereads.

Tajo: The only thing that MT has done that's remotely suspicious is bandwagoning you on Page 2 based on Empking's poor logic. Everything else he's said this game points to him being town.

The other thing I noticed is Farside's awkward crush on Empking. Her two other main suspects were me and RR, right?

-The case on me was that I was following

Empking

too much.
-The case on RR was that she voted Megatheory when

Empking

was just as guilty.

Explanation: Farside's in love, or Farside is scum.

(Also, I suppose you could say Empking falls under the same trance, but this is more proven for him meta-wise than it is for Farside)

I think RR and Farside are the scum now. I will vote for whichever one of those gets the bigger wagon.

Unvote

(Don't worry, I'll vote again before deadline)

[Crazy]

Farside, why the heck did you just do that? 3 votes will get a lynch in deadline, so that was totally unnecessary. You could have just waited to see if we

got

a deadline extension, but now that's impossible because you just hammered!

And I'm sure that you're not the only person trying to move the game along. There are lots of people posting. We're on Page 10 after Day 1 of this game. That is not the sign of a dead game.

Um, no. I never backtracked, unvoted or changed my mind. All I was trying to do was prevent the annoying situation of a huge back and forth between two people that no one but them bothers to read and prevents both from looking at other options, which I see happen to me and others a lot on this site and is never good. Having only one suspect and tunnelvisioning him takes you out of the context of the game. That in no way means that I stopped suspecting MT.

Don't buy it. What you did was actually

worse

. You kept your vote on MT without allowing him to question your vote. You know how scummy that is? He has a right to defend himself, and breaking it off because he was wrecking your case is terrible.

Why, though? What did you see in your reread that made MT go from following terrible logic, not bothering to check the thread, and attacking confirmed town to being so very town all the sudden? He hasn't done anything between the last time you expressed suspiciion of him and your following post other than defend himself and OMGUS me some more.

I think I realized that the Page 2 mess was just a misunderstanding. The only thing it showed was that he didn't bother to read the 1st page fully. It's not bad, and the fact that he's getting lynched Day 1 for it makes me sick. And him accusing me just frustrated me; I hardly found it very scummy. Accusing him for "spreading suspicion around" like you did is scummy.

Still thinking you and farside are the scum.

[Crazy]

Forgot the extension. There was a lynch.

RR, Tajo, Empking, and Farside all voted for MT.

[Crazy]

Gah, why the heck did Farside hammer before the mod replied about the extension?!

And why the heck did we lynch MT? He was the most pro-town person in this game, after Tajo.

I'd think that the scum-team was obviously RR/Farside, until Farside got replaced... ugh. I just see no reason why scum would replace in that scenario...

Right now I'm either thinking that it's RR/OP or RR/Empking.

[Crazy]

OP, do you think Empking's behavior can be ascribed to poor logic and/or overreacting? And what are your opinions on other players? You stated that RR's case on MT yesterday was weak; did you find that scummy?

Also, would definitely like hearing from PimHel.

[Crazy]

RR - bad case on MT; and then stopped arguing with him after MT was defeating his points.
OP - lurker
Empking - can't read him well; I think the way he's playing is just his playstyle and not indicative of alignment.
PimHel - Scum don't get frustrated and replaced Night 1 after a successful mislynch. They just don't.
Tajo - confirmed.

[Crazy]

I was trying to prevent an annoying circle-discussion, which only hurts the town imo. MT and I have basically said all we were going to by that point, it's not like there's anything he wrote I avoided replying to. Don't think he was defeating my points, though obviously I turned out wrong.

Yes, but you were accusing MT of something so very similar...

I don't get why you're giving him a free pass like that. Farside could've figured out after speedhammering that his only out was getting replaced or somethin', admittedly not that likely but he's far from auto-town.

Yeah, not auto-town... but if I know farside, she has a lot more guts than that.

[Crazy]

Empking, I'd be more upset with farside if she bailed as scum rather than if she bailed as town. I can see getting frustrated and leaving the town, but causing a quicklynch and then leaving the game as scum is just not something I see farside doing.

[Crazy]

There's a huge different between taking back everything you said and making phony looking appeasement gestures and trying to prevent a circle discussion. I never went back on my case, which ended up getting him lynched. Show me how that's the same thing.

It's not, actually. Yours was worse.

MT: Tajo, you evaded the question!
Tajo: No, I didn't.
MT: Yeah, you did.
Tajo: No, look here, I didn't.
MT: Oh, yeah, nevermind. My mistake. I guess that was a null-tell then.

RR: You took back your argument, MT. Scum!
MT: *defends himself validly*
RR: Bleh, we're not getting anywhere with this circle discussion. Let's stop talking.

Yeah, call that a strawman; it is sorta, but that's the basic idea I'm going for. And I've

never

seen a town that just halts the argument with their top suspect. If you really thought he was scum, you could just keep that argument going and try to get him to slip up. In case you haven't noticed, scum don't like the spotlight. Taking your top suspect out of the spotlight is not what townies do.

But the really strange part is that your whole argument boils down to one little point: that comment that MT said about "Well, you could be scum or town at this point." I really have no idea why you would be willing to lynch someone for such an arbitrary comment.

[Crazy]

In some of my early games here, I ended up getting myself into an overly long circle discussion such as this, which in addition to being really frustrating also made me tunnelvision on a single suspect and the rest of the town lose interest and ignore my case.

Uhh, RR, if the town is too lazy to read something that is "tl;dr" then that's

their

fault, not yours. If a case becomes so large, pretty much everyone will

have

to read it and pick sides. There is very little harm that can come from creating discussion with a potential scum suspect... really, you're not supposed to simplify things for the lazy town that don't bother to read things.

[Crazy]

It's my conclusion that such arguments hurt both my own ability to scumhunt and the town's attention to what I'm trying to say. I'm not interested in who's fault that is.

Can you give me an example of a game that you were in where that worked out poorly for you?

[Crazy]

Also he has changed his mind many times. For example he went from thinking that no information could be gained of the Farside-Empking argument to thinking that Empking is more probable scum. Also he thought MT was suspicious to think that he was the second most townie in the game. Finally, he voted OP but then changed quickly his vote. Explain, please.

During late Day 1, I reread the thread on several occasions and came up with a slighlty different conclusion each time. It happens. Especially with the whole Farside/Empking thing.

I can easily explain my change on MT, though. Apparently, he's very jumpy at every little thing that happens. Once I figured out that that was his playstyle, then the only reason to vote for him would be the jumping on Tajo's bandwagon Day 1... and that could most easily be explained by just... not reading.

OP, why are you buddying up to me? There's really no way that you could know that I'm innocent.

[Crazy]

Empking, I just really don't think that farside would replace out of this game in frustration as scum. It's a dirty trick that I don't believe farside would do.

Tajo is cleared.

I know I'm innocent, obviously.

That leaves OP, Empking, RR.

OP/Empking
OP/RR
Empking/RR

With all that OP and Empking have for each other, especially that late vote on Empking Day 1 by OP, I think that's the least likely scumpair of those 3.

RR is in both of the other pairs.

Which is why I think RR is very likely to be scum.

Likelihood to be scum is by this chart:

RR - 85%
Empking - 50%
OP - 45%
Farside/PimHel - 20%
Tajo - 0%

The only reason I put OP slightly lower than Empking now is because of everybody's willingness to lynch him today.

[Crazy]

Vote: OP

Tajo's a nurse. A nurse and cop can't be in the same game.

Yeah.

[Crazy]

*cough* Notice the 1 minute difference between OP's post (310) and my post (311). That post took me more than 1 minute to write, so please note that I didn't see OP's post when I wrote that, nor did I see it after until RR quoted it.

[Crazy]

You know what's Crazy?

OP, why are you buddying up to me? There's really no way that you could know that I'm innocent.

I almost added "You know a cop can't be in the same game with a nurse" at the end of that. Then I decided it might be best to omit that. Thank goodness.

And no, I'm not his scum-partner. I am under the impression that he

does

think I'm innocent.

[Crazy]

So, according to your chart, its RR and OP?

Probablies. Though I'm not going to swear on that.

[Crazy]

New thingy:

OP - 98%
RR - 75%
Empking - 15%
Farside/PimHel - 10%
Tajo - 2%

[Crazy]

Could you include yourself in those charts?

I suppose there's a chance that I misread my role PM thinking I was town while actually I was scum and then deleted it from my inbox.

Nah, nevermind, it's still in my inbox and it doesn't say I'm scum.

Unless if the mod lied... and I'm the elusive third scum that doesn't know who the other two are.

[Crazy]

Could you do it thinking in my perspective? Assuming you are me and you dont know that guy Crazy is confirmed town. Plz! Is it hard?

Okay...

I'm probably between Empking and RR. Take some off of RR and give it to me.

[Crazy]

Hi, I'm the doc. I took a gambit last night.

I didn't protect Tajo. I figured, hey, there's no roleblocker, so I really doubt the scum are going to try that whole kill-Tajo thing again... so I protected the next most likely night-kill IMO.

STRANGERCOUG!

And guess what, there was no night-kill last night! HAHA! So, that almost completely clears SC.

The only way that SC is scum is that the scum for some reason decided

not

to NK, thinking that the alleged doc would protect the last scum instead of Tajo. Do you guys think that this is likely? I don't. For instance, if the scum thought that I wasn't going to protect Tajo, why wouldn't they just try to kill

him

? Then they'd have 1 less lynch to worry about and there still wouldn't be any information.

And I count... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 of us. Me and Tajo are completely cleared, and SC is about 98% cleared now. And since there's 5 of us, that means we still have TWO lynches under our belt. And we have TWO people that aren't cleared. Empking and RR.

Lynch one of 'em today; the other tomorrow, yes? Yes?

Vote: Raging Rabbit

[Crazy]

Oh, and I protected Tajo N1 btw.

And go ahead and counterclaim. I dare you.

[Crazy]

I don't have a counterclaim against you.

Saying that to Empking/RR in general.

[Crazy]

This has been my favorite game that I have ever played on this site. I think my heart lies with these micro setups.

Tajo's Day 1 Nurse claim ended up being beneficial. Weird, huh?

Tajo - I'm also happy you made your case against me late Day 2... that plus OP naming him as confirmed innocent probably helped steer the NK away from me.

Yeh, I knew farside wouldn't ditch like that if she was scum. It's kind of a good thing she did though, otherwise I would have found her very suspicious after that quick-hammer.

I was like OMG after OP's cop-claim. That was just bad luck for him; I'm sure it was just an oversight on his part.

I still don't think MT was a good lynch. He played very pro-townly IMO.

The Empking/farside argument was pointless, of course. I changed sides on that quite frequently through the game, but now I don't think either of them had a really good case in the first place.

I'm glad I took that gambit. If Tajo was a cop, I probably wouldn't have, and if the scum still had their roleblocker, I probably wouldn't have. Also, this post by Tajo gave me great reason to take it, since it really told the scum what to expect:

Meh. Let's hope he is the roleblocker.

Doc you know who to protect.

[Crazy]

What the? Why did OP block Tajo on Night 1?

[Crazy]

I'll be damned if I know. I'm wondering why I was the attempted NK night 2 myself.

Some of us expressed that farside was very unlikely to quick-hammer as scum and then replace out.

[Crazy]

I apologize for my performance. I just never got interested in this game like I have other games, and that showed. Lucky for you guys, I just happened to be scum also, so yeah. I wasn't sure when I was supposed to claim cop, and maybe I should've put more thought into it. Eh, well good game, I guess.

You weren't supposed to claim cop. You were supposed to claim doc.

[Crazy]

You should have said that it was a joke. I probably would have bought that considering you had the smiley at the end of your post. Then you could just say that you found me pro-town for (*insert whatever*) and that's why you had said that.

And then save your doc claim for later.