TM 2021: A normal roguelike

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Post Post #1125 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:17 am

Post by Isis »

.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1126 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:18 am

Post by Isis »

Votecount 2.1
  • Sirius9121 (He/Him)
    (0)
  • Augustus
    Caesar (He/Him)
    (0)
  • Aristophanes (He/Him)
    (0)
  • Datisi (He/Him)
    (0)
  • Summer
    Nights (She/Her)
    (1) DeasVail
  • Creature (He/Him)
    (0)
  • xofelf (They/Them)
    (0)
  • DeasVail (He/Him)
    (0)
  • The
    Bulge (Any/Any)
    (1) Datisi
  • Adorable (She/Her)
    (0)
  • xRECKONERx (He/Him)
    (0)
Not Voting (9): Sirius9121, Augustus Caesar, Aristophanes, Summer Nights, Creature, xofelf, The Bulge, Adorable, xRECKONERx
Deadline: (expired on 2021-02-14 04:00:00)




The pacificist achievement achieved by mistake! When your goal is to shoot your own buildings, there's just no time for killing evil vekk, I guess!.[/quote]
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #1127 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:24 am

Post by Aristophanes »

Hey all, I have class for the next few hours and then this game is my priority. I've let it slip.

I did see the beeboy flip and I guess I should have listened. I'll look at interactions around the slot at soms point because, well, they're probably going to be helpful.

Thanks :)
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Post Post #1128 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:30 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 1121, DeasVail wrote:
In post 1101, Datisi wrote:what's the point of saying "oh i expect i'll be moving on"?? like it feels more ~for show~ rather than like. a towny thought process of solving another slot.
It was partly me thinking that I was probably wrong in my sudden paranoia of xofelf and partly me wanting to see how xofelf responded to that. I think it can be interesting seeing how people respond to different approaches to their slot. For example day 1 I gave petapan a lot of "shade" without ever really pushing him directly, while I was more aggressive at Adorable. I don't have a specific "I expect scum-X to respond a certain way to a certain approach" but I'm using this game as an opportunity to explore different approaches and see what works for me I guess.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Summer Nights
Hmmmm
You think the dueling wagons y/day were SvS?
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Post Post #1129 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:13 am

Post by Summer Nights »

okay hi i am HERE for like 5 minutes because work and i have some thoughts that i should expand on layer but i want to throw down a quick like... People I will not vote today of augustus/adorable/datisi(asterisk here???), i have some things i want to say but this is also kind of uhhhh me getting prodded and needing to post something but i’m busy. yeah. cool!
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Post Post #1130 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:13 am

Post by Summer Nights »

i have FEELERS to put out now and i’m hyped
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Post Post #1131 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:31 am

Post by Augustus Caesar »

In post 1097, Sirius9121 wrote:
Staarling
aka Hectic,

Is Drawn from Memory town or scum leaning and why
town leaning!!
the way he responded to pichu was quick and natural and his explanations made sense to a Staarling
and i think the way he's played the rest of this game has been fine
what do you think ?

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Post Post #1132 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:33 am

Post by Augustus Caesar »

In post 1101, Datisi wrote:someone please fucking call me scum or something so i have motivation for doing things
mood

I'm literally claiming Mafia Goon here.

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Post Post #1133 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:36 am

Post by Augustus Caesar »

In post 1102, xofelf wrote:But also it was peta who was side-eying me for that hammer, if theoretically I was in fact scum, why the hell would I let that be the shot?
This rubs me the wrong way. Could you expand on this for me? As I understand it, you're making the argument that scum!you wouldn't kill peta because he would read you as scum if RCE flipped town?

Seems like a fairly negligible piece of information to base an entire nightkill on, especially when you'd have to assume the inverse that he'd be townreading you if RCE flipped scum.

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Post Post #1134 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:38 am

Post by Augustus Caesar »

In post 1102, xofelf wrote:It takes me a lot of effort to any posts because either people are already saying what I want to say in so many more better words than I can and having my iso just be littered with "this" seems counterproductive, or I don't have anything new to contribute.
Ftr, you should still state what you agree and disagree with even if it's already been said, just for the sake of transparency. Reading into people's earlier takes is important for determining their alignment later. It also leaves scum less room to change what they were thinking when asked about a previous event if they're already locked into a stance.

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Post Post #1135 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:51 am

Post by Datisi »

hello

adorable's comment about being a distraction to town yesterday pissed me off and i'm reading it back and it's still pissing me off holy shit lmao
like "gut reads can end in a miss" and other reads can't?????? "i have seen scum do gut reads" do i have to pull out a quote that i have seen scum!adorable do????

well fuck it!! i'll pull it out anyway!!!
In post 1586, Adorable wrote:bob is not looking good for me and he was one of those players who was off the chemist wagon.

#496 - bob says if tictac is scum his gut is telling him scum is bussing and tictac had 4 votes at the time. Scum are supposed to work as a team getting town lynched and not vote each other on day 1.
#641/646 - bob votes davesaz for gut feeling.
I don't like gut feeling reads because it can sometimes be an easy way for scum to give out their reads.
do we wanna talk about what we've seen scum do??? because here! right here! i see scum!adorable shitpushing town!bob on the basis of him having gutreads!!!!

for the record: i went through all adorable completed games yesreday. yes, literally
all
of them. open her iso, ctrl+f the word "gut". in only two (2) games was it actually mentioned (not in passing/quoting): this game, where she shitpushed bob on the basis of having gutreads... and an old towngame where she suspected someone for having gutreads.

now, i thought this was gonna be a slam-dunk, but as she *did* make a post like that as town once... i guess it isn't.

@hectic, what's your read on adorable currently??

@summer why do you not want to vote me today??

ok

bye
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Post Post #1136 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:54 am

Post by Augustus Caesar »

In post 1106, xofelf wrote:Looking him over now. There's an interaction that he has with peta in #650 that feels overly defensive and aggressive in a needless sort of way. I don't remember that being Bulge's style, but I can't remember what or if I played with him where I actually have a sense of him. It just feels weird, especially now. Also his whole vanity wagon schtick was just pure theatre, of what sort, I don't know but it was absolutely a performance and it was very clear from his posts so far that he was always going to say it was you, it felt needless. But also considering his followup was to be then "now let's look at how Datisi and peta are partners!" was just meh. I didn't like it when it happened, but I like it less now. But idk, the way his post since daystart has had that feel of the wind out of his sails doesn't exactly feel fake. And it could be an actual re-evaluation that he's doing, or it's performative. We'll see when he does come back with these notes he's said he's taken and how he goes about it. So I guess re him, I'm more confused, I could put him in either camp easily. Misguided town or performative scum, equally valid reads I feel.

I still need more from Summer. Her posts after I talked about whether or not she and Adorable were a thang, kinda made me feel a lot about her where I think she's just nice and helpful. Adorable still pings weird, but at this point I can't tell if it's just my personal interaction with her or if I still think she's scummy. That feeling of a pair faded a lot, which could be intentional on their parts after it was talked about, but it doesn't feel that way. Or at least, Adorable's side of it doesn't feel that way.
In post 1107, Datisi wrote:maybe it's me being tired and only held awake by traces of caffeine, but my eyes started hella glazing over that post, to the point i thought this is scummy because it's a lot of text that doesn't say much of anything. *then* i remembered how i was having the same feeling about your posts in haunted village and used that as an ez shitpush. so now i don't know and i once again hate this game.

do you think being nice and helpful is ai? do you have like, any thoughts about her eod1?
In post 1108, xofelf wrote:Sorry man, lots of text that says nothing sums up my mafia play. Sometimes I have good points, but you kind of get train of thought directly.

I think nice and helpful is NAI. Her end of day felt frustrated, but in a way that felt like town watching the rest of town be idiots for not just killing the obvious scum target and worried that the vote wouldn't go through or another vote would happen. I know she had been put up as a flashwagon, but her reaction didn't read like it was caught scum but rather town being genuinely frustrated and mad that they were even a wagon at all when there was an obvious scum needing to die. It just felt like a genuine reaction to stupidity tbh. Not from a place of guilt.
Liking both sides of this interaction. The train of thought from xofelf feels organic, while Datisi drawing up that meta and reconsidering his gut feeling is also towny.

Also the following xofelf posts, I'm fan of the stream of consciousness style posting.

There's some small paranoia that xofelf is digging
too much
at Puff since she's very easy to critique in this manner, but that's probably my perception having played with Puff a lot and and being used to her. The paranoia stems from scum!xofelf using it as a thing to look productive and talk about, but her points are valid, so nah.

NAH

favehFGEjidjKIRFJESHNRVdrvkas]

sorry, cat got on my keyboard
In post 1121, DeasVail wrote:I think it can be interesting seeing how people respond to different approaches to their slot. For example day 1 I gave petapan a lot of "shade" without ever really pushing him directly, while I was more aggressive at Adorable.
Was this a premeditated decision and why? What if people saw your shade throwing without pushing as scummy?

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Post Post #1137 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:54 am

Post by Augustus Caesar »

In post 1135, Datisi wrote:@hectic, what's your read on adorable currently??
Toppish town

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Post Post #1138 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:55 am

Post by Augustus Caesar »

In post 1135, Datisi wrote:adorable's comment about being a distraction to town yesterday pissed me off and i'm reading it back and it's still pissing me off holy shit lmao
like "gut reads can end in a miss" and other reads can't?????? "i have seen scum do gut reads" do i have to pull out a quote that i have seen scum!adorable do????
lol I get you
The things she says can be antagonistic and frustrating, but it's a towntell for her. There's no reason for her to be constantly casting suspicion everywhere and looking for conflict like this as scum. She'd probably be a lot more amiable

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Post Post #1139 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:56 am

Post by Augustus Caesar »

In post 1135, Datisi wrote:for the record: i went through all adorable completed games yesreday. yes, literally all of them. open her iso, ctrl+f the word "gut". in only two (2) games was it actually mentioned (not in passing/quoting): this game, where she shitpushed bob on the basis of having gutreads... and an old towngame where she suspected someone for having gutreads.

now, i thought this was gonna be a slam-dunk, but as she *did* make a post like that as town once... i guess it isn't.
huh
Did this thing about gutreads arise recently for you, Puff? When did you first adopt the opinion that gutreads are generally scummy?

I also gtg for now

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Post Post #1140 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:58 am

Post by Augustus Caesar »

In post 1136, Augustus Caesar wrote:The paranoia stems from scum!xofelf using it as a thing to look productive and talk about, but her points are valid, so nah.
Sorry, *their

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Post Post #1141 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:04 am

Post by Augustus Caesar »

VOTE: The Bulge

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Post Post #1142 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:08 pm

Post by The Bulge »

okokok taking notes is actually proving very fruitful

idk what im gonna do with it all (ie presentation-wise) once im done and im only thru the first 20 pages but my reads are coming together nicely and my head is feeling clear, and I'm done with making "catching up brb" posts for the time being.

any questions for now, datisi and hectic?
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Post Post #1143 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:32 pm

Post by Summer Nights »

@datisi i did some soul searching after the flip yesterday and thought about the vote you put on me a bit and then your content this game a bit and then my teams thoughts a bit and i’m okay w you for now bc i don’t see a very Obvious path? i guess where you’re maf but it gets the asterisk because it’s not as strong as my will to not vote the other two though i do wanna reread them this day phase even if i think i’ll end up at the same conclusions

this game feels like everyone is vibing in a miasma of like. mostly weak reads leaning either side without any real Meat which is a strange feeling and it’s like.. going through mud a bit to sort one way or another
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Post Post #1144 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:45 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1128, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 1121, DeasVail wrote:
In post 1101, Datisi wrote:what's the point of saying "oh i expect i'll be moving on"?? like it feels more ~for show~ rather than like. a towny thought process of solving another slot.
It was partly me thinking that I was probably wrong in my sudden paranoia of xofelf and partly me wanting to see how xofelf responded to that. I think it can be interesting seeing how people respond to different approaches to their slot. For example day 1 I gave petapan a lot of "shade" without ever really pushing him directly, while I was more aggressive at Adorable. I don't have a specific "I expect scum-X to respond a certain way to a certain approach" but I'm using this game as an opportunity to explore different approaches and see what works for me I guess.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Summer Nights
Hmmmm
You think the dueling wagons y/day were SvS?
From the direction of votes, I think that the fact that they became dueling wagons is not very alignment-indicative.

When the n1 vig claim was made, there was no real reason for the scum team to believe that Summer Nights would be the alternative wagon.

The summer nights wagon was created by petapan (town) and then supported by me (town), at which point, are scum really going to be trying for an alternate wagon? In a world where Summer Nights is scum, I think that the scumteam have to accept here that they are losing a member Day 1 regardless (and tbh I think that RCE is the less sustainable of slots so needs to be sacrificed)
Obviously that only applies if Summer Nights is scum but I think it shows that Summer Nights being an alternate wagon does not actually indicate she is less likely to be scum.

One could even think that the RCE N1 vig claim followed by a very likely lack of attempt by scum to save him once the Summer Nights wagon materialised (including RCE himself not doing anything to survive) could be suspicious but I don't put too much stock in that thought-bubble.
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Post Post #1145 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:49 pm

Post by DeasVail »

My vote on Summer is mostly triggered by a lack of other available options (in my mind) due to townreading most of the game.

I am always thinking about Bulge, particularly because of peta's scumread there and that a few people are suspicious of them, but I'm feeling cautious there. There is just a real lack of attempt to look town, which is quite different from what I'd expect from scum. When RCE entered the game it fit with my expectations of what scum would do, and I expressed as much. I'm not sure that Bulge's play does. It's weird.
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Post Post #1146 (ISO) » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:08 pm

Post by Datisi »

In post 1142, The Bulge wrote:any questions for now, datisi and hectic?
"when is actual content coming" is like, the only thing i *could* ask you here
In post 1143, Summer Nights wrote:@datisi i did some soul searching after the flip yesterday and thought about the vote you put on me a bit and then your content this game a bit and then my teams thoughts a bit and i’m okay w you for now bc i don’t see a very Obvious path? i guess where you’re maf but it gets the asterisk because it’s not as strong as my will to not vote the other two though i do wanna reread them this day phase even if i think i’ll end up at the same conclusions

this game feels like everyone is vibing in a miasma of like. mostly weak reads leaning either side without any real Meat which is a strange feeling and it’s like.. going through mud a bit to sort one way or another
i do not like this post
like why do you think i'm not scum here
what does this Mean

also complaining about the weird feeling of the game is odd and/or scummy (i haven't decided yet) when imho you're part of the reason why it's like that
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Post Post #1147 (ISO) » Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:59 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 1144, DeasVail wrote:
In post 1128, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 1121, DeasVail wrote:
In post 1101, Datisi wrote:what's the point of saying "oh i expect i'll be moving on"?? like it feels more ~for show~ rather than like. a towny thought process of solving another slot.
It was partly me thinking that I was probably wrong in my sudden paranoia of xofelf and partly me wanting to see how xofelf responded to that. I think it can be interesting seeing how people respond to different approaches to their slot. For example day 1 I gave petapan a lot of "shade" without ever really pushing him directly, while I was more aggressive at Adorable. I don't have a specific "I expect scum-X to respond a certain way to a certain approach" but I'm using this game as an opportunity to explore different approaches and see what works for me I guess.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Summer Nights
Hmmmm
You think the dueling wagons y/day were SvS?
From the direction of votes, I think that the fact that they became dueling wagons is not very alignment-indicative.

When the n1 vig claim was made, there was no real reason for the scum team to believe that Summer Nights would be the alternative wagon.

The summer nights wagon was created by petapan (town) and then supported by me (town), at which point, are scum really going to be trying for an alternate wagon? In a world where Summer Nights is scum, I think that the scumteam have to accept here that they are losing a member Day 1 regardless (and tbh I think that RCE is the less sustainable of slots so needs to be sacrificed)
Obviously that only applies if Summer Nights is scum but I think it shows that Summer Nights being an alternate wagon does not actually indicate she is less likely to be scum.

One could even think that the RCE N1 vig claim followed by a very likely lack of attempt by scum to save him once the Summer Nights wagon materialised (including RCE himself not doing anything to survive) could be suspicious but I don't put too much stock in that thought-bubble.
...huh. I was gonna go back and reread the Summer Nights wagon to find the scum driving it as a counterwagon, but... peta did start it, didn't he?

It raises an interesting question. I know this gets into NK analysis which is probably futile, but I can't help but wonder the motivation for the peta kill. Like I said, I had peta heavy in my scumpool at the end of y/day, my entire team was yelling at me to go after peta D2, and then he gets NK'd. What advantage do scum gain by NKing the townie who lead the counterwagon away from the flipped scum?

I could buy that the SN wagon was independent of the RCE wagon, that much seems true.
TBH none of the "reasons" for the Summer wagon seemed particularly compelling to me, what struck me the most was Summer's initial reaction to getting wagoned which could be me reading tone/playstyle and not intent/motivation. Other people seemed to read her reaction as townie, which seems similar to how xof read my hostile playstyle when Hectic was attacking me for it.

I really feel like I need more from Ari. I need to reread shit around beeboy too. Even though we have a dead scum I feel a little bit lost at sea for what to do next, because we essentially caught that one scum off of a reverse-trust tell (lmfao)

My vote is currently going to land on Aristophanes if he doesn't show up and start dropping some razzle dazzle, I feel like he was never properly eviscerated for his weak ass push on me (using Hectic's push on me as cover) followed by a tunnel/selective read on my slot while ignoring the rest of the game. Like quick, go iso Ari, tell me you see a slot that's trying to sort the game there and not just do the bare minimum. But I also want to reread things in light of the flipped slots
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Post Post #1148 (ISO) » Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:15 am

Post by Summer Nights »

@datisi the Brunt of that post i can elaborate on when i’m not working but why’s it weird that i’d say that? it wasn’t even a complaint more of just like... the feeling i get overall? i don’t understand that being particularly AI
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Drawn from Memory<br><img src=https://i.imgur.com/rUdtw5m.gif>
Posts: 26007
Joined: March 28, 2019
Pronoun: he/him, it/its
Location: Croatia
Happy Scumday!

Post Post #1149 (ISO) » Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:18 am

Post by Datisi »

yeah elaborate on the post when you can. and idk it felt weirdly lamisty, which feels kinda out of place for you.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
~M
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