TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Almost50]

i know a50 is weird

Your comb is weird.

[Dunnstral]

Ceph, wagoning LLD has been like pulling teeth, her buddies are NOT bus'ing. We townies will have to do it without scum's help.

This probably the best argument for Scum!LLD I have seen so far. It's not a

perfect

argument (because sometimes Scum try to avoid the prevailing wagon to saw confusion when the eliminated flips Town. Some of us will want to eliminate ON the wagon and some off it, but the popular argument would always be "Scum

must

gave been on it", so 0-1 Scum on a Town flip on D1 increases the Scum win probability by like 50%). However, I can guarantee Scum are reluctant to bus LLD is she is on the red side.

I don't agree that it's like pulling teeth

Some people, like yourself, agar, are just not that fast to vote. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but that is what is being used to paint this as 'pulling teeth'

No, this is normal, and in fact the wagon sprung up really fast

[Cephrir]

Ceph, wagoning LLD has been like pulling teeth, her buddies are NOT bus'ing. We townies will have to do it without scum's help.

This probably the best argument for Scum!LLD I have seen so far. It's not a

perfect

argument (because sometimes Scum try to avoid the prevailing wagon to saw confusion when the eliminated flips Town. Some of us will want to eliminate ON the wagon and some off it, but the popular argument would always be "Scum

must

gave been on it", so 0-1 Scum on a Town flip on D1 increases the Scum win probability by like 50%). However, I can guarantee Scum are reluctant to bus LLD is she is on the red side.

my dude.

it got to like 8 votes without there even being a case.

that's not pulling teeth.

[DrippingGoofball]

NARRATOR: There were, in fact, cases plural.

[Dunnstral]

NARRATOR: There were, in fact, cases plural.

Then why aren't you answering when I am asking for them?

Just saying 'there are cases' is not an answer. I'm asking what is the case.

[Cephrir]

dgb said like one sentence about it once! i was

very

convinced.

[Dannflor]

VOTE: dgb

[innocentvillager]

dannflor why the switch? has dunnstral's reaction been towny or something?

[hercule]

the case for scum!LLD, to me, is:

1. enters the thread with sole purpose of discrediting mastina and "eliminate players in inverse order of her preference"

2. then decides to back up this idea by saying just that my entrance was garbage

3. re-iterates that my entrance was garbage multiple times in order to get votes on me

4. rallies the thread to vote me, still with no evidence

(4.5?) big ego post about their scumgame

5. when i finally respond to her like, "ok, enough's enough let's talk" she's just like "nah lol you're caught scum"

6. when i'm like "ok well that's bullshit" she's like "lmaoooo such a scum reaction now my vote is, like, even more justified"

7. when a counterwagon forms on her, she AtEs and leaves the thread (also like, can't tell if she's mad that more people aren't voting me despite her not seeming to be sure or just mad that she's being voted)

i'm aware this is a slightly humorously uncharitable framing of her game but it also feels like a somewhat reasonable one

[hercule]

damn I missed an opportunity for another page 69 joke there

[innocentvillager]

I'm not asking you to use meta

I'm asking you to look at my posts and answer this:

Do you think I haven't been insightful and explain-y in my reads this game?

Meta would be if I'm asking you to compare it to my scum/town game. I'm not doing that. You can do this exercise by reading only t his game.

i am feeling lazy (heh) and will do this later

in general i think i know what you're getting at. you're saying xtoxm thinks insightfulness/explain-yness is a towntell for you and that it's not here, but you think it is here. but also to evaluate the whole meta argument i kind of need to get a better understanding for your meta, i can't just answer this question unfortunately in isolation. but i see what you're saying and it does weaken the case for me a bit. but in general i am purposely kind of outsourcing my reads/votes to other people this game at least in the beginning, partly on purpose (because my d1 reads last game were bad and i feel like other's opinions are generally more confident and stronger than mine) and partly out of laziness.

prior to team mafia and 2180 my understanding of your posting was that it was very terse and one-lined as either alignment. have you intentionally been writing longer and more thought-heavy posts lately or am i just crazy? in that sense i just dont have a great sense of your meta. i think the fact that auro who is probably way better at interpreting this stuff than me can get your alignment right 5/5 times and is scumreading you here is just another thing making it more likely you are scum here fmpov

[Cephrir]

the case for scum!LLD, to me, is:

1. enters the thread with sole purpose of discrediting mastina and "eliminate players in inverse order of her preference"

2. then decides to back up this idea by saying just that my entrance was garbage

3. re-iterates that my entrance was garbage multiple times in order to get votes on me

4. rallies the thread to vote me, still with no evidence

(4.5?) big ego post about their scumgame

5. when i finally respond to her like, "ok, enough's enough let's talk" she's just like "nah lol you're caught scum"

6. when i'm like "ok well that's bullshit" she's like "lmaoooo such a scum reaction now my vote is, like, even more justified"

7. when a counterwagon forms on her, she AtEs and leaves the thread (also like, can't tell if she's mad that more people aren't voting me despite her not seeming to be sure or just mad that she's being voted)

i'm aware this is a slightly humorously uncharitable framing of her game but it also feels like a somewhat reasonable one

1 is definitely not a scumtell. 2 also sounds like a pretty ordinary thing to do. you are currently townreading mastina for doing 4, and 4.5 is something you also have done. 5 and 6 sound like what dgb is doing too. multiple people have already said they think 7 is town indicative.

most of this i don't really see as connected to a scum agenda either and you haven't really done so here -- you've only summarized events

[innocentvillager]

as a side note ive been mindmelding with some of cephrir's posting lately so i consider that +town ok thanks

[Cephrir]

ok my points about 5 and 6 are bad but i still don't see "and here's what makes it scum" in this post

[hercule]

@ceph I feel like you also are discrediting mastina a lot this game for little to no reason, she hasn't been rallying the thread to vote LLD with no evidence she has posted longform paragraphs, 5 and 6 I don't feel LLD has been reaching out to anyone to get them to read her, more just complaining, and 7 my teammate is very sure it's her scum AtE

[Cephrir]

yes, i am discrediting mastina a lot this game. just because the reasons are not apparent to you does not mean they don't exist. it should be apparent this is a longstanding real opinion.

once again we arrive at the idea that long paragraphs constitute evidence. this is only true if they actually say anything logical or useful.

is everyone obligated to fight wagons on them the way you feel they should, by reaching out to people?

[Cephrir]

it should probably tell you something that mastina does not appear to be surprised to see either LLD or myself discrediting her.

[hercule]

yes, i am discrediting mastina a lot this game. just because the reasons are not apparent to you does not mean they don't exist. it should be apparent this is a longstanding real opinion.

once again we arrive at the idea that long paragraphs constitute evidence. this is only true if they actually say anything logical or useful.

is everyone obligated to fight wagons on them the way you feel they should, by reaching out to people?

well you were saying that 5 and 6 were the same for others and I'm saying they're not. and yea, usually when someone is pushing on you and you're town the natural reaction is "ok I should figure out if they're mafia or if they're misguided"

[hercule]

it should probably tell you something that mastina does not appear to be surprised to see either LLD or myself discrediting her.

well I have a different opinion of mastina based in my limited experience with her so I suppose we shall just not see eye to eye here

[Cephrir]

usually when someone is pushing on you and you're town the natural reaction is "ok I should figure out if they're mafia or if they're misguided"

disagree. :shrug:
people are complex.

[Cephrir]

it should probably tell you something that mastina does not appear to be surprised to see either LLD or myself discrediting her.

well I have a different opinion of mastina based in my limited experience with her so I suppose we shall just not see eye to eye here

and we don't have to, i just need you to understand that this isn't something coming from a scum agenda and i would be doing it regardless of the color of my role pm

[Cephrir]

i guess if i were scum and she happened to be wrong maybe i'd shut up about it

[hercule]

it should probably tell you something that mastina does not appear to be surprised to see either LLD or myself discrediting her.

well I have a different opinion of mastina based in my limited experience with her so I suppose we shall just not see eye to eye here

and we don't have to, i just need you to understand that this isn't something coming from a scum agenda and i would be doing it regardless of the color of my role pm

alright I just think that if you're town you should try to not let your pre-existing biases prevent you from engaging critically with what she's saying. but if that is a bridge too far i'm not about to play relationship counselor over here lmao

[Cephrir]

i dont enjoy doing this but people see big blocks of text and become hypnotized without critically analyzing them for actual value and i'd like to win this game without just betting it all on a black box full of random chance.

[hercule]

I mean I just think that she does provide actual value, some of her "big blocks of text" were actually very thorough and in depth