TM 2021: A normal roguelike

[Datisi]

why does that seem unlikely?

why wouldn't the scum informed share the info immediately in thescum chat?

ok at this point i kinda realized what i'm doing is stupid. your 1354 assumed the absence of daytalk. i wondered if that points to your alignment being one or the other but i just had a memory of reading a "tell" like that completely the wrong way so forget that i said anything.

[xRECKONERx]

btw creature you're the only one using lynch constantly so could you maybe not since nobody else is doing that

p.edit: oh.....kay.........?

[Datisi]

reck, do you have any Fresh Takes on bulge?

[Creature]

Like, even if the other scum look good from the scum lynch, for every scum that looks good from the lynch, at least three town look better. So it's plausible scum would want to delay the first red flip as much as possible.

Oh welp, might have the chance scum didn't realize that

[Creature]

Still pretty plausible RCE could try saving himself for another day anyway because what would be the backlash of trying to do so?

[xRECKONERx]

reck, do you have any Fresh Takes on bulge?

no tbh i need to iso and reread bulge entirely, i am having trouble not seeing red bc he's reading me as scum

[xRECKONERx]

Still pretty plausible RCE could try saving himself for another day anyway because what would be the backlash of trying to do so?

the question isn't what RCE would do? it's whether or not his buddies would help try to save him

what exactly are you getting at

[Creature]

Still pretty plausible RCE could try saving himself for another day anyway because what would be the backlash of trying to do so?

the question isn't what RCE would do? it's whether or not his buddies would help try to save him

what exactly are you getting at

idk, we're all talking as if scum needs a special motive to want to live when pretty much any scum should be doing their best to try to live regardless of how much scum depends on them.

[xRECKONERx]

the context of this discussion is and has been regarding DV's unvote off of RCE

Hectic proposed that it was tactical on DV's part, which would mean DV as a RCE-buddy was lookin for a way to keep RCE alive another day

what I'm saying is, I don't think scum would be willing to stick their neck out in that way for a role that was dead in the water anyway

it's not "do scum need a special motive to want to live"
it's "does DV scum tactically unvote IMMEDIATELY after a shitty claim from his goonbuddy"

framing it otherwise is disingenuous

[Creature]

what I'm saying is, I don't think scum would be willing to stick their neck out in that way for a role that was dead in the water anyway

Kinda hard to say rn. Starting D2 I also had them as too scummy to be scum, but now I'm unsure any of their actions ever make any sense as town and they're prob just scum flailing really hard since the beginning of the game.

[DeasVail]

what I'm saying is, I don't think scum would be willing to stick their neck out in that way for a role that was dead in the water anyway

Kinda hard to say rn. Starting D2 I also had them as too scummy to be scum, but now I'm unsure any of their actions ever make any sense as town and they're prob just scum flailing really hard since the beginning of the game.

If you’re talking about me here, I think that describing me as flailing is an extreme misrepresentation of my play and a lot of your posts just feel as if they are attempts to tarnish my reputation in the game.

I can’t conclude that you are scum from them partly because of just how off-base a lot of your posts about me seem to be but I don’t think it’s at all conducive to actually working together as town and I would ask you to really re-think your approach to me and my slot in general. Blaming it on DGB also does not fly because it’s not DGB that’s here and playing this game. It’s you

[Creature]

Tough but ok

[DeasVail]

I think that a lot of Ari's posting is easy to pick apart and criticise, but having looked over his posts again, I'm still not actually convinced that it makes him scum.

I also find it very difficult to see the xofelf comparison coming from scum with beeboy:

Also I fund all of the attention on beeboy funny because xof hasn't been here in the same amount of time and nobody cares? There was a 3 hour difference between their last posts.

Like I get that beebs is a meta point but still, the fact that nobody cares if a slot that has only 3 posts has been silent the same amount of time be has is funny to me.

--

Bulge, the reason I asked you the question I did is because it kind of feels like you're holding yourself back from townreading me, with all these qualifiers of "DV is a very skilled player" etc. that stop something that would otherwise be town about me from being a reason to townread me. What is your basis for being particularly concerned about my ability as scum, compared to other people?

Reads right now:

I have strong townreads on Augustus Caesar, Adorable and Aristophanes. (Ironically at one point in the game these were my placeholder scumreads. How tides turn!)

I think Creature is probably town. (Some hesitation there but I think it's the most reasonable conclusion to come to)

Xofelf and Reck again sort of land in a similar place for me of thinking they are town but things constantly come up that force me to re-evaluate these reads. So far, there is nothing that has convinced me that my townreads are wrong but these are the sorts of reads that I'm trying particularly hard not to have constantly influenced by confirmation bias. That all said, I do feel reasonably strongly about Reck being town.

Sirius I keep wanting more from but it doesn't happen. I have been partially relying on the opinions of people who are more familiar with him (and it seems these opinions have been a townread), but I personally don't have mucchhh to go off. I think probably town though? Not sure whether I'd reconsider him or xofelf first.

I think that Datisi and The Bulge are very possible scum, and right now I would lean Bulge over Datisi but it honestly keeps changing in my mind. Despite me having concerns about each of them, neither as a scumread feels totally

right

to me and I keep going back to my townreads to work out if i have something wrong and then I end up deciding my townreads are still town and the loop continues etc. etc.

BUT, Ydrasse is scum... I think. When she does put effort into the game, the effort is all in how she looks to others rather than actually trying to work the game out. I don't get the sense that she cares about that at all. Plus, with a real lack of other people in the game who I feel comfortable reading as scum, this scumread on Ydrasse feels comfortable to me. I feel good about it. Just as before, I really think we should eliminate Ydrasse today.

[xRECKONERx]

@DV: What are the things that have come up that have forced you to re-evaluate your reads on me/xof?
Can you talk to me about why you're scumreading Datisi? I don't think you've mentioned that before

[The Bulge]

Bulge, the reason I asked you the question I did is because it kind of feels like you're holding yourself back from townreading me, with all these qualifiers of "DV is a very skilled player" etc. that stop something that would otherwise be town about me from being a reason to townread me. What is your basis for being particularly concerned about my ability as scum, compared to other people?

disagree. there have been more posts from you that pinged me in some way than from any of my townreads. there are 3 main reasons why you are not a scumread. the way you pressured RCE is one of them, and would be the most impressive part of your play if you do flip red. but a doomed slot is a doomed slot, and I think we both come from an era of mafia where there are no holds barred when it comes to bussing a partner replacing in like that (daytalk made all the scum on this site soft!). I also really liked the way you tried to squeeze content out of creature, but with him in my top scumreads I have to consider the possibility of his buddies coming in to bail him out of a content hole. finally, painting yourself into a corner saying you will likely end up townreading me upon review was a good look for you, but these are only words. So yea, there are things holding me back, but I don't know where you get the impression that I should have you higher on my list?

[The Bulge]

we also have polar opposite readslists so that is definitely not helping

[The Bulge]

tbh my reason for suddenly townreading peta was because he wouldn't have unvoted RCE as scum

ehhhhhhh this is a really weird day opener for someone who just killed peta

[The Bulge]

what's the point of saying "oh i expect i'll be moving on"?? like it feels more ~for show~ rather than like. a towny thought process of solving another slot.

It was partly me thinking that I was probably wrong in my sudden paranoia of xofelf and partly me wanting to see how xofelf responded to that. I think it can be interesting seeing how people respond to different approaches to their slot. For example day 1 I gave petapan a lot of "shade" without ever really pushing him directly, while I was more aggressive at Adorable. I don't have a specific "I expect scum-X to respond a certain way to a certain approach" but I'm using this game as an opportunity to explore different approaches and see what works for me I guess.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Summer Nights

Hmmmm
You think the dueling wagons y/day were SvS?

I noted this as trying to cast doubt on that possibility, but looking again it's actually clearly the opposite, and reck is trying to open this dialogue after briefly hopping onto the Summer counterwagon yesterday, and has been lazily floating it as an alternative to ari all day now.

[DeasVail]

@DV: What are the things that have come up that have forced you to re-evaluate your reads on me/xof?
Can you talk to me about why you're scumreading Datisi? I don't think you've mentioned that before

Between you and xof, I'm definitely less concerned about you and I do think some of the concern is probably silly paranoia. From you some of the stuff towards the end of Day 1 was slightly questionable to me. 1003 was a weird reaction at Datisi and I remember feeling a bit suspicious of your team-driven vote onto RCE after talking about how you believed the claim to be real (almost as if you wanted be on the wagon more than anything else) but I don't actually have strong belief in any of this. They are passing thoughts I have and I would prefer not to be judged on them.
Xofelf is a little more concerning to me sometimes. When I voted for them in 1096 was probably the best example of me having a moment of reconsideration.
Having had a quick skim through your posts and xof's posts again right now though, I still think you're probably both town. I just have ~moments~ here and there. Maybe the fact that Ari isn't posting is a reason why I don't get paranoid of him (hah), as obviously problematic as that is.

I feel like I haven't talked much about my suspicion of either Datisi nor The Bulge before, but in Datisi's case when it comes to game-solving/scumhunting it feels more reactive to events of the game that are happening than Datisi actually directing things and trying to influencing the course of the game etc. The reason for my expressed hesitation in my post though, is that I don't have any specific "content" that I scumread Datisi based on. It is mostly that I townread the rest of the game at least slightly more.

[DeasVail]

Bulge, the reason I asked you the question I did is because it kind of feels like you're holding yourself back from townreading me, with all these qualifiers of "DV is a very skilled player" etc. that stop something that would otherwise be town about me from being a reason to townread me. What is your basis for being particularly concerned about my ability as scum, compared to other people?

disagree. there have been more posts from you that pinged me in some way than from any of my townreads. there are 3 main reasons why you are not a scumread. the way you pressured RCE is one of them, and would be the most impressive part of your play if you do flip red. but a doomed slot is a doomed slot, and I think we both come from an era of mafia where there are no holds barred when it comes to bussing a partner replacing in like that (daytalk made all the scum on this site soft!). I also really liked the way you tried to squeeze content out of creature, but with him in my top scumreads I have to consider the possibility of his buddies coming in to bail him out of a content hole. finally, painting yourself into a corner saying you will likely end up townreading me upon review was a good look for you, but these are only words. So yea, there are things holding me back, but I don't know where you get the impression that I should have you higher on my list?

Most of the posts I've seen you make have been talking about how certain things from me have been unlikely to come from scum, but tbh the dissonance between posts you've been making and your read of me is not scummy and is probably more likely from town if anything.

[The Bulge]

idk how you can call a nullread dissonance, but ok. Hectic has been pushing you, imo a little overzealously, so in my position to get to the truth it's more productive to push against. please don't call it "devil's advocate" but that's the spirit of it.

[The Bulge]

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Ydrasse]

this is a placeholder post since i wont be able to post for like ~2-3 hours and that'll put me outside of prod range but +town to bulge for reads list, will elaborate when i write up my thing in a bit

[Black Hole Defection]

Going to grab a pagetop

[Black Hole Defection]

It may turn into a VC slowly.