Mini Normal 2191 | Endgame

[Cabd]

Greetings, gentle beings.

Hi fuzzy, long time no brutally murder!

[Cabd]

I was super hyped to start posting, then got so tired I fell asleep with my dentures in... Ouch.

Anyways, onward. I'm stealing Petapan's "Ten impactful Posts" plan and trying it on for size today. We'll see how it goes.

For now, let's..

UNVOTE:

[Cabd]

1/10

As I catch up I have a solid town core of {lenora, nepenthe, Maduisha, Clidd} (not necessarily in that order) and a fairly significant scumread on Umlaut.

VOTE: Umlaut

Here's what gut-pinged me in the Umlaut ISO.... it's giving me feelings of "annoyed that the pool is shrinking" from him. (BORKTELL!!!!) Feels like there's pushback on anything that could at all softclear a player on day one. For example, a player having great posts then not posting for a bit doesn't change the contents of those initial posts?

Spoiler: ISO with Highlights

I don't really get the scumread(s) on nepenthe's intro, "look at me openly refusing to follow site meta" is not a very natural scum opening play.

I wonder why this game is a 9p...
It's very interesting.

I can't tell if you're serious or not, what's interesting about a game being 9p?

VOTE: Zulfy
Every post he's made is pure scum

i think ur vibes are town so far chumbo :3

what is "town vibes" to you? i'm not sure how you came to this conclusion so quickly

(also i just read over the rules and saw only 1 bah post is allowed so i'm sorry for my 2 opening posts without content, i just tried to send something that didn't go through so i wasn't sure if it was working)

This is straining my credulity a bit.

lenora, where/how did you form your impression of what "bah post" means?

To answer your question, a 'bah' post is a single post someone may be permitted just after they die, just to say "bah, go town" or something. "Free of game related content" means it can't be used to try and make a case or reiterate accusations or otherwise try to influence the outcome of the game.

I get the impression you've made several

I'm just a newb and I don't understand things

remarks back to back and I'm concerned that you're deliberately playing up that angle.

I saw town get burned by that in a game not too long ago.

Chumbo's in the envelope

If you think Chumbo's scum why are you voting Fuzzy? Do you think Fuzzy's scum too?

@mod Your rules post says Day 1 is 10 IRL days but your deadline timer in your last VC seems to be based on 7 IRL days

I didn't realize it had been so long since nepenthe was posting, I was still going by my early impression of them

. Okay, so make that a

very weak

town lean.

[Cabd]

2/10

Clidd, I don't think we have played together before? Your post 220 is literally something I could have done and posted myself in a vacuum. It's rare to find people who use meta this way, other than myself and sometimes fferyllt.

It feels so incredibly self-indulging but I kind of want you to apply your technique to me just to see what it feels like from the other side! But only if you actually feel the need to. Don't waste your time if you've gotten a read on me in other forms.

1/10

As I catch up I have a solid town core of {lenora, nepenthe, Maduisha, Clidd} (not necessarily in that order) and a fairly significant scumread on Umlaut.

Can I have a explanation for this towncore?

Hi Ben.

I am not currently wanting to go into too much detail.

Spoiler: Tangent

I recently finished a perfect win scum game (Tenet, large theme subforum, 600+ page behemoth) where we got literally no scum deaths in four double days in a large theme precisely because town was too forthcoming with their reads and softing roles, such that my team could predict everything going down a day or two in advance with about a 90% success rate. I'm going to be trying to play reads a little closer to the chest to avoid the exact same scenario getting Uno-Reverse'd on me. This is also the reason behind intentionally limiting myself to fewer posts per day, I had like a 9 page ISO that game, and it severely hurt the ability of the town to coordinate. (Which, in fairness, I was scum so that was good for me) This game has an extremely ideal and healthy posting pace, and with dkkoba gone and me in the slot, the only hyper-poster is gone. I'd like to keep this thread manageable and enjoyable for all.

[Cabd]

3/10

Woo, instant engagement! Best way to replace in, 11/10 so fluffy heckin cute puppers.

viewtopic.php?p=12542179&user_select%5B ... #p12542179

It's not that Bork didn't go along with the shrinkage (In this case, his preferred mislim Ben claiming friendly neighbor upon the near completion of the wagon to elim day two), it's that he felt annoyed at having to, if that makes any sense? It's the first thing that stood out to me upon catching up these past ten pages, so here we are! I suppose "fairly significant" is a misnomer, a better phrasing would have been "The most significant" but one cannot edit their own posts so let smerps be smerps.

[Cabd]

4/10

Ben has already been annoyed that you don't want to share how you got those reads. If I understood correctly, you're caught up with the game, right? If so, you would know people reacted poorly to Zulfy concealing read related information with no explanation given, yet you're doing it too. Why is that? Do you want to see if you gather the same reaction as him?

It's more accurate to say I just don't care that people reacted poorly to Zulfy doing the same. I laid out the reasons WHY I am keeping things closer to my chest, it's up to you to decide if you feel they're legitimate or not. I had committed myself to both playing things tighter and keeping my posting more limited this game the second I sent the replace-in PM to the game's mod. I appreciate the attempt to engage, though. I am trying to emboy one of my cabd-isms: "Be the change you want to see in the

world

site meta.

I guess my counter question is why do you think I WOULD care about doing something that got Zulfy attention?

Spoiler: Tangent, Continued

Tenet was a scumgame where that happened but it's a much longer trail of recent games, mostly large themes, that have had hundreds of pages in them and gotten way out of hand. It's caused games like Xenoblade Chronicles II mafia, where I was able to as town hero solve the entire game by the start of day two, and scum rolled over and died in a row. Or Smoke Filled Antechamber, where day two had a mod-confirmed town block of like 5 slots alive. Or illicit subtances, where my hydra had a 6 page ISO and we won using an autowin plan after chain-eliminating two scum. Those FEEL great, but you get a lot of town players left by the wayside that can't keep up and ragequit. And in the end I decided that 2021 is my attempt to change it. Cue my annoyance at drawing scum in Tenet, because it meant I couldn't actually make the change, as playing the high energy high posting style causes town apathy, and as scum it was my job to generate that.

[Cabd]

1/10

Not sure who mentioned my DK read. I stand by it. I found that there was hardly anything that made her stand out. With Cabd replacing in I wil have to revisit that slot. Cabd

seems more active

and is giving more to read which should help give me a better read that slot.

This is an interesting characterization. Koba has the most posts of any poster in the game PERIOD. You actually have the least besides myself, who just replaced in, and Chumbo, who replaced out super early:

Spoiler: Post count chart

DkKoba 58
clidd 42
Maduisha 38
ben dover123 33
Zulfy 32
lenora 27
Umlaut 20
nepenthe 15
TheFuzzylogic99 14
Chumbo 9
Cabd 6

I totally see why people might say "Oh man Cabd-fuzzy lockscum team" from the way this read was approached now.

[Cabd]

We didn't get a deadline extension? Well crap. I'll drop the self imposed limits for today then. One second. Just got my infant up from her afternoon nap let me get a keyboard and mouse.

[Cabd]

2/10

Clidd, I don't think we have played together before? Your post 220 is literally something I could have done and posted myself in a vacuum. It's rare to find people who use meta this way, other than myself and sometimes fferyllt.

It feels so incredibly self-indulging but I kind of want you to apply your technique to me just to see what it feels like from the other side! But only if you actually feel the need to. Don't waste your time if you've gotten a read on me in other forms.

No, unfortunately we haven't played together yet, but it's refreshing for me to know that I'm not the only one who uses meta in this way. Nice to meet you, btw o/

And I'm afraid I can't apply my method to you, considering that tells evaluation between games is something that you most likely know how it works (and should know how to counter as scum). I can, however, draw parallels of behavior by mirroring and contextualize the way you approach the game in both alignments but, again, you are aware of this process and probably know how to manipulate your meta, so I am waiting to see what you'll show here per play.

The answer I expected, but consider it a challenge from a play style comrade, to see if you get to the right spot on me in the end. (Assuming you're in a slot that genuinely has to, obviously!) My custom title on this account is due to the way I used to play before I had a hiatus from the site- I had a digital binder fuill of play style tells for every active player on the site, and was watching literally every single ongoing game on the site at once, using free time and my extreme speed-read ability. Now I have a job, wife, and kid..... so that just can't happen as fast. My limit is playing two games at once, and following 3-5 non-me games at most.

Spoiler: Tangent

I recently finished a perfect win scum game (Tenet, large theme subforum, 600+ page behemoth) where we got literally no scum deaths in four double days in a large theme precisely because town was too forthcoming with their reads and softing roles, such that my team could predict everything going down a day or two in advance with about a 90% success rate. I'm going to be trying to play reads a little closer to the chest to avoid the exact same scenario getting Uno-Reverse'd on me. This is also the reason behind intentionally limiting myself to fewer posts per day, I had like a 9 page ISO that game, and it severely hurt the ability of the town to coordinate. (Which, in fairness, I was scum so that was good for me) This game has an extremely ideal and healthy posting pace, and with dkkoba gone and me in the slot, the only hyper-poster is gone. I'd like to keep this thread manageable and enjoyable for all.

Hum, I believe that the context of the game you mentioned was quite different in size, playerlist and setup, so I'm not sure if it would make much sense for you to approach the current game with this kind of mentality (because the context here is quite different, especially the pace of the gamestate) and, particularly, the instance of saving/not showing reads is also something I've seen scum using to simulate a towny approach (as scum!FL did in the past game with me), but I'll consider it NAI until I see if you'll get some spicy take using this approach or not.

Indeed. It should be taken as NAI as I can cite several games of both alignments I have personally done so over my 7+ year tenure on this site, not even counting the years before that on my old home site.

That said, and this might be TMI so let's call it tangent part the third:

Spoiler: Tangent, Third of His Name

When it comes to mafia, I have around four "styles" I try to use.

Style one is me in larger theme games. I don't constrain myself whatsoever, and I attempt to "in the moment" play and read, as both alignments. It caused veyr inflated page counts, but allows me to form snap gutreads very effectively, at least given how it's gone in 2020.

Style two is in specific hydra account of mine. I essentially become a person that is a combination of my play style and fferyllt's, in that Morph the Cat doesn't really feel like two separate players in one slot, but instead a fusion of our styles posting as one brain.

Style three, the one I instinctively used here, is my old "IC" persona. Many moons ago, in the newbie Queue, in addition to the SE role there was an "IC" role whose job was to both play the game AND be a friendly open book when it comes to theory and thought processes, as to try and set a high standard example of how play works, while addressing theory questions directed to them. Obviously, that system is long retired, and so now only the "super friendly and reserved posting" parts remain. I'm pulling the "10 posts a day" thing from a player named Petapan after seeing it used to great effect during the tenet game to keep himself on track and focused. I also tend to end up in this style when playing anon-alt games.

Style four is "Chaos wizard" and that style only gets used in games where everything is crazy and I wish to keep it that way. An example of this would be the "Achievement Unlocked" game, or most micros with very experienced players and heavy nonstandard mechanics.

[Cabd]

I guess my counter question is why do you think I WOULD care about doing something that got Zulfy attention?

I don't know, and that's why I wanted to find out. The only conclusions I can reach in the hypothetical case that

it was

deliberate would be that you want to test out whether the reactions towards Zulfy were genuine from the people that reacted like that (if they don't when seeing the same thing a second time, it could mean they didn't care as much about it and more about shading Zulfy) which could be more townsided, or that you want to detract attention from the 2 ongoing wagons, which could be more scumsided.

The simplest answer here is that it wasn't particularly deliberate, I just didn't care what Zulfy's reaction was or was not, this action was preordained.
We can keep chasing this car for a while, but there's nothing to do even if we catch it, let's move on, unless you have other lines of questioning about it?

[Cabd]

start from the conclusion "Umlaut is scum"

You're not that far off, regarding starting points. Umlaut is a gutping, and then I went back through the ISO to try and quantify what exactly was setting off the subtle alarm bells, in the hopes of feeling out other's reactions to the same points once highlighted and given daylight.

I don't have a particular rock-townread that i can use to bounce thoughts off of, so "at large to the ether" is the next best thing.

[Cabd]

Time zones are going to be an issue this game, it seems. Talking to the empty room. I know I'm leaving my late 20s but boy is the decline into "old man yells at clouds" fast these days.

[Cabd]

who is cabd

I'm the DkKoba replacement, koba got themselves sitebanned for a while.

[Cabd]

To be clear lenora and Maduisha are green to me

So you dislike both of {nepenthe, clidd} or which one?

[Cabd]

Time zones are going to be an issue this game, it seems. Talking to the empty room. I know I'm leaving my late 20s but boy is the decline into "old man yells at clouds" fast these days.

We don't interact much but I thought you were like 35.

Hah. 29 as of last month, actually.

[Cabd]

I suppose I should clarify that in a 9p game, to me "towncore" doesn't mean "never touch" but "good enough to get to day two"

[Cabd]

If we don't hear otherwise I'll be around to emergency hammer before deadline.

[Cabd]

Fuzzy- while I am not scumreading you, you are L-1 with under six hours to deadline. Highly advise you claim so we can avoid disaster just in case.

[Cabd]

Mod has yet to clarify but the official votecount certainly indicates deadline is very soon.

[Cabd]

And the odds of me risking not eliminating day one are negative five billion percent.

[Cabd]

Hammer threat rescinded.

[Cabd]

Might be time to abandon the votecounter macros, my dude.

It's a 9P game just count the votes correctly yourself, and use the right names.

[Cabd]

That said, you're still at L-1 fyi.

[Cabd]

I'm about to head to bed but I am not sure I buy it outright.

Please nothing silly tia.
More in the morning.

[Cabd]

Good morning, folks.

I need to run some quick mod and reviewer meta.

Please hold.

[Cabd]

Damn, this is what I was afraid of.

Sirius9121's 9-player mini. Please /in for mini to join.
Note: reviewed by Something_Smart and

Isis

[Cabd]

Just came off of another Isis reviewed game where roles were explicitly designed to fuck with norms.

Which means here we DON'T want anyone counterclaiming, it is possible that there are overlapping roles, given how the NPOM game went down.

[Cabd]

Just came off of another Isis reviewed game where roles were explicitly designed to fuck with norms.

Which means here we DON'T want anyone counterclaiming, it is possible that there are overlapping roles, given how the NPOM game went down.

@Cabd, link pls?

This "no one counterclaim" is doing nothing to lower my suspicions of a possible Cabd-Fuzzy team :/ (depending on whether Fuzzy's claim turns out more-or-less confirmed in the long run)

viewtopic.php?f=123&t=84802

[Cabd]

Jailkeeper doctor and roleblocker, all ungated, all town, in the same setup.

Along with FN and vanilla cop, also both town... vs 3 goons.

[Cabd]

Sigh.

[Cabd]

Hmm... Maybe it's time to start talking setup design.

Fuzzy, just to confirm, your role claim is town 2-shot neo.

You get "yeah VT" on vanilla townies, which confirms them as town, and "not VT" on ALL other roles/alignments, right?

[Cabd]

there may not even be a mechanical way to clear Fuzzy here.

There almost certainly isn't.

We have to decide if it's worth trying to leash here or not, given other data.

[Cabd]

Hey Cabd, I see you are still going at your Umlaut SR, can you talk to me about the reads outside of the townblock or is that "hold to chest" info as well?

Meh. It's more there because I'm lazy than because I'm still tunneled in on him.


UNVOTE:

[Cabd]

I can, I'm just at work at present, it'll be a "This evening" sort of ordeal.

[Cabd]

Yeah I'm off work but I have an 18 month old here, and the other mafia scummer in this household (The wife, that is) is off to attend Ceramic Studio time, so I'm on kiddo watching duty. Means phone posts instead of keyboard-mouse posts for a bit. She usually crashes within a few hours tops.

[Cabd]

The child slumbers.

[Cabd]

Most of my townreads were actually fairly weak and I was hoping the people mentioned in them would push back, but instead we have this very detached mess of a thread right now.

So, uh, here we go, I guess?

[Cabd]

The debate here is killing me inside.

[Cabd]

Clidd, hypothetical for you.

You have two plays, a steady and safe methodical one, or a high risk high reward one. Which do you take, in a vacuum>?

[Cabd]

Okay, different angle, what town roles do you think compliment a 2-shot Neapolitan in a 9 player setup, Clidd?

[Cabd]

Yeah I was more asking what other town PRs you'd expect to see in a 9P.

[Cabd]

I have to remind myself that not everyone reads into the ether the same way...

I'm getting at, I don't think Fuzzy's role is compatible with my own, in a queue that explicitly forbids godfather as a role type.

I was hoping to not play this way but the thought of knowingly voting wrong and letting it get away just to potentially mislim sucks and is for people with stronger stomachs than I.

I am a JOAT with investigative and self-protective abilities.

If fuzzy is town, then town has the potential to have two guilties or clears going into day two. And I am VERY wary of having that much investigative power in a 9P setup.

[Cabd]

Making bread is a GREAT hobby!

But yeah.

You came back to this indeed.

[Cabd]

I was very tempted to just hammer when he claimed but I was going to slowly let things play out... but yeah.

[Cabd]

Forbidden? I mean not explicitly, but you tell me. Do you think that a setup where town can have three or more results about alignment by day three is fair?

[Cabd]

Better than fuzzy's. Explicitly better than fuzzy's.

[Cabd]

Going to flip a bunch of coins to decide between which part of my role to use.

Full random between self protect given two draws, generic investigative not specific here, and mystery third bonus option.

[Cabd]

The problem there is it leads to us having to mass claim "pr or not" and that shit is an incredibly bad idea.

[Cabd]

I should clarify further that the mystery third bonus option is ALSO stronger than fuzzy's.

My initial read here was "Fuzzy is mafia rolecop/vanilla cop/some investigative"

[Cabd]

Like unless we think there's ZERO vanilla town here, the scenario of "This setup if fuzzytown could lead to four clears on day three" is a very real thing that this setup would have had to have allowed through. And that's just sloppy IMO>?

[Cabd]

Is minimum JOAT abilities 3? Because in a 9p game you'll probably only use 2 or maybe 3 but you'll never use your abilities twice.

Not gonna specify the specifics of my JOAT any more than what has been put into thread, thanks.

[Cabd]

I was nullish on Fuzzy prior to the roleclaim.

Fuzzy and I have actually played with each other MANY moons ago.

I suppose we can hash out the read independent of the claim, sure. You said it was a townread why?

[Cabd]

You sure do always live up your name, man.

[Cabd]

I'm male but have the good fortune to being amused, not offended, if misgendered.

[Cabd]

I'll be around this evening to vote as needed.

[Cabd]

Multiple folks from Europe, eh? Nice.

I'll be around, it's only 5PM here.

[Cabd]

Meh. I'll be honest with ya'll if I haven't named a name they're kinda in the "don't care" pile and I don't particularly mind if they die.

I also know confirmed town was voting them so that's kind of cool too.

[Cabd]

At this point I'm just in "blood for the blood gods" and "data for the data gods" mode here. Annoyed that I outed but at the same time, I'll just WIFOM the self protect vs invest shot so scum can flip a coin against my own.

[Cabd]

Now to drive home in an 8 inches of snow Chicago winter.

See ya'll sometime between an hour and ten years, depending on road conditions of the parking lot known as interstate 294.

[Cabd]

Can you expand a little bit on what you mean by opportunistic? I realize that me asking this is kind of a little self-biased but I'm interested to hear your logic behind that characterization

[Cabd]

If i'd voted you I would have immediately hammered you, my dude.

You were at L-1

[Cabd]

Soooo... is zulfy gonna show?

[Cabd]

Going to bed in twenty minutes, last call or whatever.

[Cabd]

AH, actually, with umlaut voting fuzzy it's L-2 now :/


Somebody better get back here.

[Cabd]

Sucks. This is probably pisskop in tenet again but no choice.


VOTE: zulfy I guess

[Cabd]

Hope for the best I guess.

[Cabd]

I have a living result. Not stating anything else yet.


Fuzzy?

[Cabd]

Likewise.

I'm waiting for clarification from the mod on something, and will discuss my result once everyone checks back in.

[Cabd]

Okay, have my clarification.



Fuzzy?

[Cabd]

Changing the subject, what's your result @Cabd?

will discuss my result once everyone checks back in.

[Cabd]

I think things will come together shortly. I suppose I ought to ask the room if they think fuzzy or I should claim results first.

[Cabd]

Hmm.

[Cabd]

Tbh I was hoping you'd claim clear or no clear without your targets name first.

[Cabd]

The investigative part of my JOAT is full cop. No other modifiers.

I have a clear.

[Cabd]

Because when I reveal I think it'll be obvious.

[Cabd]

But for now I wait I suppose.

[Cabd]

...don't everyone post at once or anything.

[Cabd]

Yeah in a world where I think fuzzy's claim is anything short of 100% real, checking him is the height of stupidity. And vice-versa.

[Cabd]

I'm honestly kicking myself in hindsight for not checking umlaut because it prolly would have been a guilty.

Oh well. Clidd is officially a mason. With himself for now but hey. Welcome to stone cutting class.

[Cabd]

I feel like it's fairly obvious why I checked Clidd. He's essentially my own play style but not in my slot... I know exactly how dangerous it is to town read that effort, and that the play style snows towns hard. SO if I lived, getting to KNOW he is town and can know all work we do together is genuine? That's rad.

[Cabd]

I'm honestly kicking myself in hindsight for not checking umlaut because it prolly would have been a guilty.

If you think scum!me ever kills Ben last night I need to know what drugs you're taking and where I can get some.

"If you think scum me would do XYZ you're ABC" is like a meme now, my dude.

That said, the statement you quoted was about 15% serious and 85% snark.

[Cabd]

He is a townread.

I don't see cop as always something you hero play with trying to get a guilty. I see it as a way to remove paranoia from the board about players you think could be capable of getting past you extremely well.

[Cabd]

Mm, nearly 100%. I don't think I'll live to see tomorrow, do you?

Mostly the latter. But the "lol why not check fuzzy" comment hella pinged me.

[Cabd]

I mean in general, I feel like criticism of my choice in shots boils down to disagreement in how optimal it was, which is like...

Put three scummers in a room and you'll find it impossible for them to all agree on anything? Let alone optimal play of a given role?

[Cabd]

But I expected a more resolute instance of yours in relation to the game.

I don't know if you're still saving your reads or playing in real time.

I am specifically hiding at least one fact, the go time button is once we resolve the rest of the pending night action claim details.

[Cabd]

Given maxwell endorsed that product and or service? Yeah.

[Cabd]

And your result?

[Cabd]

Okay. Max? Last call before the chaos train leaves the station to agree or refute.

[Cabd]

I am full cop not self-protecting Joat.

There's your chaos. I crumbed it like hell.

[Cabd]

And now, I'm off the go fight a Chicago blizzard for Chinese food.

[Cabd]

Taking everything at face value, we'd therefore have...

Clidd- Confirmed Town
Cabd - Cop
Fuzzy - 2-shot Neopolitain
Maxwell - Doctor
(Dead) Bendover - VT
(dead) Zulfy - VT

Umlaut - ????
nepenthe - ???
Maduisha - ???

[Cabd]

That was hard to type while waiting for defrost, but I did it.

[Cabd]

Clidd leads massclaim from here. Or decides not to I guess.


But with these claims on the table yeah.

[Cabd]

Yeah, kiddo is falling asleep, i'll get to it later, but not really sure where the townread in Umlaut comes from and am a little confused as to how many people got there.

Some of this shit really pinged.

[Cabd]

The ghostly wail of the dead is haunting us to get it right, y'all.

[Cabd]

Yeah I'm being low impact right now. I am quite aware. That doesn't change the realities that it's the weekend so no child are other than me and the wife. And that Chicago weather dumped a good seven inches of snow I am currently fighting with.

It'll have to be a little posting tonight and the meat of the posting will be Monday.

[Cabd]

I spent ten hours in a tiny server room cage today. I WILL be posting my thoughts tonight.

I am sorry IRL is conspiring to delay me.

[Cabd]

Right, okay.

I'm gonna piss half the room off by doing this in the order of setup spec and mechspec and THEN reads, but uh, tough.

Assumption 1: Mafia lacks a Role Blocker (or similar style role such as rolestop/JK/redirector)

There's a few reasons for this. Regardless of Fuzzy's case, I'd stated the potential for an investigate. Fuzzy, if town, has an investigate. Going into night one, there was at LEAST one town investigative in play as claimed. (And I'm starting to think two)

It follows that a roleblock on a town investigative made them MUCH more vulnerable to day-elim on day two when it came time to put up or shut up. The fact that this did not occur, therefore, tells me it is extremely unlikely that mafia sat on their hands with such a shot, instead of simply lacking it.

Assumption 2: Mafia lacks a Strongman

Once again, it follows that Mafia WITH a strongman shot ignores my wifom play about self-protective and shoots into the investigative roles. I don't really think this assumption is super controversial, but I can in-depth it if anyone actively needs it.


With me so far? These both lead into theory 3....

Assumption 3: The Normal Review Group does not allow "Follow the Cop"

Let's say for a second that I'm mafia, and that we have maxwell-fuzzy town. We still have a "cop" in Fuzzy that can get up to two innocent confirms, even if forced to claim day one, by the doctor protecting. Mafia lack a strongman and lack a roleblocker. How do they counter this night play? A neighborizer sure isn't it. The only thing left I could think of would be giving them a way to doc-hunt. As in, an investigative of their own. So in this scumcabd world, presumably I'm actually rolecop or the like.

Okay? So now let's go over this with reality, that I'm town cop. A doctor existing means that, in an even stronger case than the above, mafia is FUCKED if they cannot find the doctor super early. Let's humor and say that all three strong PR claims are true. That means that mafia is staring down two investigative abilities per night phase, and a coin flip if the doctor protects between claimed cop roles, at even getting a kill through on them. If anyone thinks that a world exists where the setup is cop, neo-cop, doctor, 1-shot neighborizer, VTs... vs two mafia that have no blocks or strongman, please speak up now.

No? Okay, cool.

Moving along, then....

[Cabd]

Yeah, I'm getting to that....

I don't think we have a doctor for several reasons, dude.

[Cabd]

Not least of which is that the "doctor's" target wasn't either of the claims on the board.

[Cabd]

But your vote assumes maxwell is telling the truth without hesitation. Interesting.

[Cabd]

only logical thing to do today is to VOTE: maduisha

How did you get here?

[Cabd]

I think that the setup is something like this:

Town

Cop
2-shot Neocop
1-shot Neighborizer
VT
VT
VT
VT

vs

Mafia

Rolecop
Goon

Neocop has four potential "clears" and therefore slightly below 50-50 odds of getting a clear or not, shooting randomly (assuming a town mislim D1). Cop gets hard guilties or innos. Neither has any protection when claimed.

[Cabd]

If you think the doctor is town, and at least one of the investigatives is town, wouldn't you want to no-lim and force an extra clear that way?

[Cabd]

He won a game with 4/5 scums without losing a single partner (a clean win).

If we're BOPing me, let's note that it was SIX scum and a better than perfect win because we convinced one townie to suicide by feeding himself to the wood chipper as well.

[Cabd]

Is this the part where I get to wax poetic about how scumcabd approaches games?

This is like my second favorite part of mafia, the number one being letting ffery or somebody else who shares my playstyles wax poetic about my scumproaches.

[Cabd]

Here's my "Hour commute home voice to text" notes. Please forgive typos, Chicago highways don't exactly allow for editing. I'll condense into something more coherent tonight after kiddo sleeps.

Spoiler:

Maxwell and one more
My inclination is that it is probably the slot that got replaced that was Lenora I think it was
It could also be fuzzy or umlaut
But I'm less sure of those reads
It definitely isn't My innocent and I would be really really surprised if it's the purple-haired lady
The reason I don't think it's fuzzy is because two shot cop one shot neighborizer and that's it is not enough town power even against two goons according to the normal review group
So I believe one of fuzzy or Maxwell could pretty much have to be telling the truth and if I have to choose between the two it's a very obvious choice
I could easily see going double investigative no protective I really don't think we could see follow the cop
At least with the current set of normal reviewers
The Spaniard is a town read but one that I was liable to get super paranoid on so I don't think checking him was a bad choice at all I'm glad he's town I just hope it comes to the right decision in that he's talking in his neighborhood right now with um lot and trying to figure out what he thinks about the whole situation about claims on the board
The purple-haired lass it's just town by play I don't have any particular claim based or set up based speculation to clear her but the fact that Maxwell is trying to drag her into a protracted 1v1 feels like what Borg did to prism back in the game that just finished on day one
I had really hope that throwing out naked and in some cases extremely unearned town reads on some of these slots that had low content would lead to them engaging me and challenging me on the read in a way that I could possibly get a read on them but instead they just lurked out and got replaced and that really sucked
I would go as far as to say that it even backfired as a strategy for me
I suppose there exists a world in which there's another town PR that is staying hidden but I really don't think that's the case because most town PR's at this point that would hide would be investigative which would have already counterclaimed or protective which also would have counterclaimed for the guaranteed scum
I could see something like a town bulletproof counter claiming My fake out self-protective stuff so I really don't see that kind of a roll hiding right now either It just doesn't make sense but then again a lot of this stuff doesn't make sense

[Cabd]

Oh and in unrelated stuff. Fuzzy, generally where in the USA are you? There's plenty of local places, but if you're outside the great lakes, my recommendation changes to the best between the ones that will flash freeze and ship you authentic pizzas.

[Cabd]

I was scum in tenet fairly recently. Not sure how you could miss that in a meta dive.

[Cabd]

Also none of you are cohort players lol. That's not an insult but an actuality.

[Cabd]

I believe I went into play styles fairly recently in this thread. Well. On day one.


I'll find it when not mobile. I'd advise you compare this to meta samples of town and scum games of newbie and mini games. Large themes are an entirely different beast and you'll find my play here doesn't match either the town or scum samples of my large play.


I am amused that you're going ahead and trying to meta the meta player though. It made me smile and my little one is super consider as to why dad is grinning.

[Cabd]

Samantha97 replaces Nepenthe. Please welcome them!

...?

[Cabd]

Did you replace your own alt-slot with your main?

[Cabd]

Summary of the text spam hidden in the spoilers above.

{Clidd}
{Maduisha}
{Umlaut, Fuzzy}
{Maxwell, Samantha}

[Cabd]

Oh did we break Clidd?

[Cabd]

Cabd-
I live in Texas. We have some decent pizza places but they are few and far between. Where I live its 99.0 percent Tex-Mex . Giving my inclination to pizza this makes me sad.

Okay enough chit chat, I should get back to the game

https://ship.giordanos.com/

Best you can do without traveling very far north.

[Cabd]

Not hammering. Or even debating it yet. I want clidd dictating night actions first.

[Cabd]

Oh and before I go to sleep myself. The cohort is a bunch of players from the 2013/14 era that I have a TON of history with.


Fferyllt. Syryana. Borkjerfkin. Cephrir. Penguin_Alien (who happens to be my wife, we met in a newbie game haha), guy in freezer, Bell, Tammy, Nachonamma8, LLD, notscience etc. Group of about fifteen of us that have more completed games with each other than without.

[Cabd]

Eight years, today. I'm getting so old for this shit.

[Cabd]

Thanks man. The well wishes are appreciated.

[Cabd]

I am ALL about coinflips, hah.

[Cabd]

I am inclined to coinflip my target, yes.

I have no preference for which pool. Clidd is the one I want signing off on the final plan for obvious reasons.

[Cabd]

Heh.

It should also be stated I was LITERALLY on drugs following a full set of teeth removal during the xenoblade game. Like, drugged up beyond my mind on opioids.

[Cabd]

Oh man I should link my back and forth with Lucky at some point, it was hilariously bad too.

[Cabd]

Literally my tinfoil is that it's somehow Maxwell-Fuzzy and this is all a giant game of charades.

[Cabd]

{Clidd}
{Maduisha, Umlaut}
{Fuzzy, Samantha}
{Maxwell}

Adjusted...

I'm re-reading and a certain set of posts REALLY sticks out as fucking bonkers...

But eh. That's reads and zero setup spec involved in them. (Obviously, a clear on clidd is a clear on clidd)

[Cabd]

i think it is likely scum is claiming vanilla. Giving my role and Cabd role it is likely one is claiming VT to make the balance seem more town heavy then it is. As i believe Cabd role.

TBF it is weird that Cabd investigated Clidd instead of me since i was the number 1 suspect yesterday. Part of me thinks that it was that she was paranoid and wanted to make sure Clidd was town since he was TR by almost everyone. The other is i might be wrong and for some reason and Cabd is fake claiming.

Fuzzy, can you please, please give some consideration to the people here who have an understanding of setup balance who are telling you it is basically impossible that your role, a cop, and a doctor exist inside the same setup. I'm saying it, Cabd is saying it, Umlaut has actually modded normal games, we can't all be scum.

Nah, you're deliberately being evasive in your stances. You're refusing to commit to a read on multiple players or analyze the likelihood of possible scumteams, because if you try to actually look for a scumbuddy for fuzzy, it falls apart pretty quickly. Last I communicate with you on the matter. Fairly sure you're scum now so I'm not going to bother debating you anymore. My words are for those I need to convince.

Gods above and below, Arceus Damn, these posts give me the biggest hive-rash ever.

[Cabd]

If I had to GTH i'd yoloshoot Maxwell-Samantha, but I don't, and I'll defer to you all I guess.

[Cabd]

Why would you check clidd anyways given I have a clear? Unless you think the team is exactly Cabd clidd.

[Cabd]

No offense but if it was Cabd clidd we'd already be done with the game and talking about how fun it was to win.

[Cabd]

I will hammer only out of need to avoid nolim. I think fairly strongly that this flips town.

[Cabd]

That's blindly ignoring the context of this game and the roles that have been outed, were I scum here, I lose the game if my partner is voted because cabd guilties me tomorrow. Following that, I'd never try to scumcase her at all and certainly would have hammered you when I had the opportunity.

I was gonna object and say you could just shoot me but yeah that's a scumclaim too since you're claimed doc.

[Cabd]

oh sorry I meant the rationale behind targeting clidd

I mean Ive been fairly frank about that choice:

He is a townread.

I don't see cop as always something you hero play with trying to get a guilty. I see it as a way to remove paranoia from the board about players you think could be capable of getting past you extremely well.

I mean in general, I feel like criticism of my choice in shots boils down to disagreement in how optimal it was, which is like...

Put three scummers in a room and you'll find it impossible for them to all agree on anything? Let alone optimal play of a given role?

[Cabd]

I should mention that a LOT of play has been suboptimal from enough slots here that it can't all be from scum.

Obviously, given my play was suboptimal, that's the case, but from an outside perspective that doesn't know my alignment, too.

That said, claiming doctor explicitly, instead of "I am a generic PR, yes, but not saying more" was kind of sadmaking if town.

[Cabd]

Fine.

VOTE: Madi

Blagh

Hate this.

Deadline laughs.

Madi you can tell us now.

[Cabd]

Oh also, out of game, but got my vaccine appointment!

[Cabd]

Sam, Fuzzy and Cabd know what to do tonight.

instructions unclear

who am I targeting again

Baron bunny.

[Cabd]

This is my one allowed oops I died post to say that I hope that the lass with purple hair is okay and I wish her well.

[Cabd]

Lololol vanilla cop

[Cabd]

also impressive way of deflecting the n1 kill cabd, definitely a scary claim that was potentially a commuter or something similar.

Quite pleased that it worked.

I figured for sure the bluff would be called.

[Cabd]

It boggles my mind at how much people scumread me for my "IC style" play this game.

[Cabd]

Yeah how dare you scumread me going into N2 :~/