Large Normal 231 | Etymologies | Game Over

[Luca Blight]

Can I get an idea of what your general reads are, chkflip?

[Luca Blight]

I really think he's trying to copy Nero. Everything from calling players voting him bad, to self-voting etc has been the same.

The fact Titus was so quick to say

'BBMolla is Nero Cain

' without even knowing why he was being wagoned is very telling, imo. I believe it was a deliberate plan all along.

[Luca Blight]

I don't know why you think BBMolla is a policy yeet. He was already scummy before all his AtE antics.

And a BBMolla elim tells us a lot. He makes sense as a partner to all the suspect slots in the game.

[Luca Blight]

And the way the two wagons are competing suggests scum is being wagoned.

[Luca Blight]

Elaborate on your Vax SR, quiet.

[Luca Blight]

quiet, what do you think of the fact that the players you think are town are voting BBMolla while the players you think are scum are voting plusJOYED?

[Luca Blight]

Is anyone hugely resistant to a Vax elim today?

I have this weird feeling that Vax is a good candidate for most solves.

I'd really like to hear why you think this.

[Luca Blight]

I really don't want to rely on meta to read a player who is hyper-aware of his own meta, but I'd be interested to see some of the meta you're referring to.

Could you point me in the right direction?

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, that made no sense.

[Luca Blight]

(around the if plusJoy town then Luca scum shade by Titus, and around the BBMola push). Though the votes were on BB and Plus, it almost felt like the narrative was sort Luca vs. Titus.

Still reading through your post, but wanted to correct this: Titus said that plusJOYED Town means Andres is scum. Momrangal said if PlusJOYED is scum then I'm scum.

[Luca Blight]

Stuff like this is why I SR you, Chkflip.

And?

You asked me why I SR you, remember?

You take this stance while completely ignoring all the reasoning I've given behind BBMolla being scum, and why the game-state points to plusJOYED more likely being Town.

Flase. I've stated my read. I've stood by said read since the beginning of the game. Is it possible my BBmolla read is wrong? Of course it is. But do I think I'm wrong? You've given me no reason to believe as much.

Your scum tells are superfluous and innaccurate.

Your reasons are either weak or NAI for BBmolla IME w him.

PlusJOYED has two instances in which they've denoted they ARE NOT playing.

PlusJOYED has tied voting pattern aligned to flipped scum. That's probably the most important part here, no?

THE GAMESTATE. Heh. The gamestate is what it is because one scum traded themselves for... little to no reason, it seems, other than some sort of distraction maybe? Maf was a sinking ship I guess?

Your read is your read. Mine is mine. To say I've ignored you is fallacious and misleading, don't you think?

Nah, you did ignore my points and you're still ignoring/dismissing them even now.

In general your posts haven't been that bad (although not that great either) but you're guilty by association with BBMolla and Titus from where I'm standing.

Everything before but is about as good as I aim for, so, like, I understand this isn't meant to be complimentary... but thank you?

As far as everything after the but goes, well, I currently town read both of those slots. So being associated with them isn't so bad from my point of view as it stands.

I'd like to know more about your reads in general. I feel as though you've kept your cards quite close to your chest in this regard.

[Luca Blight]

I don't know why you think BBMolla is a policy yeet. He was already scummy before all his AtE antics.

And a BBMolla elim tells us a lot. He makes sense as a partner to all the suspect slots in the game.

And when he flips town?

IF

he flips Town (big if) I'll have to completely reassess again, of course.

[Luca Blight]

I'm wondering if Quiet was hinting at some kind of result on Vax Yesterday, given his sudden FoS of him out of nowhere.

Otherwise, my beliefs are only reinforced after the PlusJOYED flip. I believe all the scum were likely on his wagon, and the game-state heavily suggests BBMolla is scum.

I'm onboard with a Titus elim as well.

VOTE: Titus

[Luca Blight]

Regarding plusJOYED's play, it reminds me of someone who admitted to playing deliberately scummy as Town in order to make it easier for them when they flip scum, as no-one would expect much from them. It wouldn't surprise me if PlusJOYED had something similar in mind here.

[Luca Blight]

I believe all the players who have been NK have something in common: they all scumread Titus, with the exception of Mathblade (who apparently Titus had the the most reason to kill).

[Luca Blight]

Not_Mafia (5)

:

Nero Cain, Norfolk Boy1, MiniMegabyte, Binatog13

, DrippingGoofball

[E-6]

Hayker (5): Rannygazoo, Andresvmb,

BBMolla

, Bypasser Catcher,

Titus

[E-6]

Nero Cain (4): NorwegianboyEE, Gamma Emerald,

chkflip,

quiet
PlusJOYED (1): Luca Blight
Titus (1): PlusJOYED
MiniMegabyte (1): Vaxkiller
NorwegianboyEE (1): Not_Mafia
Andresvmb (1): Momrangal

Not Voting (1): Hayker

Interesting VC here. BBMolla, Titus and chkflip (the three most likely to be scum fmpov) were all on wagons competing with Not_Mafia's wagon here, and all three were on PlusJOYED's wagon Yesterday as it competed with BBMolla's.

[Luca Blight]

Norwegian

Gamma

DGB, Hayker, Andres
Vax

Chkflip
BBMolla, Titus

That's kind of where I'm at right now in terms of the non conf players.

[Luca Blight]

Overnight, chkflp has become a scumread for me. I’m traveling over the next few days, but I’m going to try to articulate why ASAP.

VOTE: chkflp

This could be something.

[Luca Blight]

Quiet already scumread Chkflip prior to that comment, so to say he became a SR overnight seems to hint he might have something on him.

[Luca Blight]

No results from the Chkflp pressure,

so I’m moving on for now. They woke up today, it seems, and I’m decently liking what I see. Can revisit later maybe.

This is strange wording. Is he hinting he got no result to his Track on chkflip?

[Luca Blight]

quiet SR Vax more, so I feel that might have something to do with a Track.

[Luca Blight]

Is anyone hugely resistant to a Vax elim today? I have this weird feeling that Vax is a good candidate for most solves.

And vax I’m happy for you to tell me why I’m being an idiot here.

This

[Luca Blight]

I also have in my notes that Vax has soft pinged me a couple of times,

but I'd probably need to be on a laptop to track down receipts for that

, and I'm still traveling today.

Hello....

[Luca Blight]

Quiet had Vax at null until suddenly wanting his elim at the end of the previous day. He hinted at a possible result, even using the word 'track' in association with him. There's definitely something in this, imo.

[Luca Blight]

Given scum seemingly have a rolecop, I think it's a fair idea.

[Luca Blight]

I guess it's possible BBMolla could be Town that has been hard-pocketed by scum.

Maybe scum is something like Titus, chkflip, Vax.

[Luca Blight]

So Andres is lockscum because he voted plusJOYED as a counterwagon to Not_Mafia, but the other three you think are scum voted Not_Mafia from what I recall?

Which makes no sense.

[Luca Blight]

Vax to claim next, and chkflip.

[Luca Blight]

Well there was no clear CW to Not_Mafia until his fakeclaim, which naturally changed things anyway as a number of Townies bought into it, or at least thought it would self-resolve.

I think your basis for thinking Andres is lockscum makes no sense when you also think (based on your SR's) that NM was being bussed. Am I missing something about your reasoning?

[Luca Blight]

I guess it's possible BBMolla could be Town that has been hard-pocketed by scum.

Maybe scum is something like Titus, chkflip, Vax.

[Luca Blight]

Why hasn’t Vax claimed yet

[Luca Blight]

Quiet hinted at a possible guilty on Vax, Andres.

[Luca Blight]

Are you even following the game? Because if you were you’d know the answer to that question.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, I’ve just seen that.

Those are some weird choices to RB.

[Luca Blight]

I agree that it should be between Titus/chkflip today.

I would like to see some content from Hayker, though.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

It's not that exciting, DGB has a 50% chance of guessing her way out if trouble if there were any. I don't think there is, but, y'know.

It's possible.

I'm being super vague on purpose btw. I hope people understand.

You wouldn't like it if I claimed to the tee.

You can't lie to me, woman.

Speaking of fabricating role claims, well it seems almost out of character for you not to claim... doesn't it?

Vanilla or not vanilla would suffice in all honesty.

How very vanilla of you, Titus.

I know whether Titus, Mom, quiet, and you are vanilla or not. In that order. My reads have followed that train if you'd like to go back and check. No crumbs, but before I knew there was whatever the fuck a Doctor Tracker is flip TOWN I'm very much in the camp that the Role Cop is scum.

I did say Mom was vanilla before she claimed it, though.

I said that at some point yesterday.

If you really intended to 'test' Goofball to see whether they'd slip up, then this is a really bad way of doing it. It seems as though this whole process was a show to try to validate your own claim rather than to actually see whether Goofball would trip up, as you gave the game away before they claimed. You theatrically went about revealing your supposed Vanilla Cop role, which meant Goofball, from your perspective that they could be a scum pr, would already know not to claim VT.

It also makes sense that this could be the scum rolecop.

[Luca Blight]

Those are some convenient targets as well, given both Momrangal and quiet were most likely targeted by the scum rolecop. The Titus result could be fake: either a) she is your partner, or b) you saw that she already claimed VT earlier in the day.

[Luca Blight]

That's a lot of words for "I don't like the way you interacted with Goofball," but I appreciate the effort. Your opinion of how I conduct myself means very little to me, excuse me, and the only line with actual merit (and the only reason I've not absolutely volcanically exploded) is the last line of the post. Something we both know I've literally no way of refuting without Bina confirming my role's existence and even Nero Cain knows that isn't going to be a profitable plan.

Goofball herself said she thought I was setting up to claim her role, so you'll have to bring more to the table if you think a small handful of posts where I'm mostly being cheeky while simultaneously being rung up, all while playing ball mind you, is some sort of indication that I'm some mastermind here trying to puppeteer you to your death.

My point was that you seemed to be making out as though you were testing Goofball, but it was all for show - you already knew Goofball was Town.

Because if you were genuinely a Town Vanilla Cop with a non-vanilla result on Goofball, you'd surely not give any info as to your result away and wait to see what they claim. If they claimed VT, then you'd automatically know they must be scum. The fact you all but revealed being a 'Vanilla Cop' before Goofball's claim meant that all they had to do, from the perspective of you being Town and them being scum, is claim anything other than VT.

In short, it seemed as though that sequence was designed to make your claim look good while supposedly scumhunting, but none of it reads genuine to me.

[Luca Blight]

Those are some convenient targets as well, given both Momrangal and quiet were most likely targeted by the scum rolecop. The Titus result could be fake: either a) she is your partner, or b) you saw that she already claimed VT earlier in the day.

Momrangal was targetted by the Role Cop. That's... how we know it exists. Good job.

I know, that was my point? I suspect YOU could be the scum rolecop.

a) you guys keep talking yourselves into voting here but not really committing to it. It just keeps getting mentioned. Funny.

b) This is circumstantially true; however, Titus and I have a very long, fun, and colorful background in our games together. We have faced one another as both alignments. And I knew that if I got a non-vanilla result from my ability that I would have to look for scum PR or town PR vibes.

I literally started D2 pushing for Titus content my guy. All I knew was no PR and still had to discern alignment.

I'm not sure I want to vote you today as I also heavily suspect Titus, and keeping a scummy pr claim alive another day seems better than keeping a scummy VT claim alive another day, all things being equal.

[Luca Blight]

You might not be telling the truth about the nights you targeted them. The Tracker is dead anyway so you're relatively safe in that regard.

I'll read through again and see what I find.

[Luca Blight]

Well I'm not putting much stock in the Titus result, as that could easily be made up.

But yeah, I don't know. It's all speculation from where I'm standing. I'd rather get back to just judging by play rather than by claims at this point. I think your alignment will become clearer as the game progresses.

[Luca Blight]

Titus seems to think DGB is scum, but the Mafia wiki seems to indicate 'Lazy' is a Town-only modifier.

[Luca Blight]

You AND Luca need to specify why you think DGB’s night actions make no sense. I think you’re perspective slipping.

They make no sense from my perspective because I TR all four of them, and for me the chances of blocking a Town PR would have been far greater than that of blocking a scum action, especially with the earlier choices. I can kind of understand why Goofball targeted Momrangal I guess, but I think it was a low-percentage play.

That said, I believe Goofball is Town based on their general play, as well as the fact that 'lazy' appears to be a Town-only modifier, based on the wiki.

[Luca Blight]

Titus seems to think DGB is scum, but the Mafia wiki seems to indicate 'Lazy' is a Town-only modifier.

it's in the any alignment category on the normal page

Hmm Ok, scratch that then.

[Luca Blight]

I'm encouraged by the fact that the Titus wagon is likely all-town atm. Only one I'm not sure 100% of is Andres, and he's most likely Town if Titus is scum.

I feel like I just want to flip this and work out the rest Tomorrow, tbh.

[Luca Blight]

I've become a lot less certain of my reads. The only (non-conf) read I'm still sure of is that Norwegian is Town.

[Luca Blight]

I’m also VT.

[Luca Blight]

We're still going to ignore Titus's VCA then?

Given she said her VCA cleared chkflip....yes.

[Luca Blight]

This game is so demotivating when scum are clearly running the show here. At least if I get limmed, I can laugh from dead chat.

I feel ya (demotivation and laughter).

This is quite fitting.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Vax

I’m busy today, but this is virtually conf scum fmpov by PoE.

Vax and BBMolla probably last two, but an outside chance of Hayker.

[Luca Blight]

That’s E1 btw

[Luca Blight]

I know Norwegian’s play well enough to say with 100% certainty he is Town here.

I’m still busy but will catch-up in a few hours.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Hayker

Haykers gonna Hayk Hayk Hayk.

Norway; first, aid me with the %s that a)Meta and b) the slip are the reasons for your vote.

Second, if there is belief in a 'slip', why is Mom not being wagonned?

VOTE: Nero

And this is a key sequence for when scrutinizing Luca. Luca had just voted for Hayker. And then Norfolk does too. So just when maybe the momentum would not be enough to save Hayker from doom, Luca switches to Nero. Fascinating.

My Nero vote was prompted by his self-vote a few posts earlier. I read it as scum giving up.

[Luca Blight]

I'm pretty sure Vax is flipping scum so I'll save my catch-up for Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

I guess there’s a SK then, as neither of those kills make sense coming from a vig.

Disappointing as I thought 3rd parties weren’t allowed in normals anymore.

[Luca Blight]

My guess would be:

Scum: BBMolla
SK: Hayker

[Luca Blight]

I also reassessed after the quiet flip and scumread Vax, while you told me he was Town.

[Luca Blight]

Why hasn’t Vax claimed yet

What exactly are you doing? Like why are you demanding people claim?

Quiet hinted at a possible guilty on Vax, Andres.

You’re wasting a lot of time. Vax is probably Town, actually. Purely from today’s posting.

You know what I’m interested in? Between Titus and I, who would you vote?

[Luca Blight]

I’m pointing our that you only tell the parts of the story that suit your narrative, like you did with associating me with Hayker after the hammer on Vax.

[Luca Blight]

I’m not saying you’re scum, I’m saying you’re wrong.

[Luca Blight]

What about Hayker as sk and BBMolla as the last scum? That makes most sense to me.

[Luca Blight]

From my perspective it pretty much has to be Hayker/BBMolla.

VOTE: Hayker

[Luca Blight]

Once again Andres you highlight the posts where I was wrong but ignore the ones where I wasn’t. It’s annoying.

[Luca Blight]

Request a fast night so we can finish the game, please.

[Luca Blight]

I have work today so I’ll catch-up in a bit. I believe the SK is BBMolla and I’ll make my case later.

One thing I’ll say in my defence is that I really dislike 3rd party roles, and if I’d rolled SK I probably wouldn’t have put any effort into this game. I played in one multi-ball game years ago (Fire & Ice) and have avoided them ever since, because you can’t read the game properly.

[Luca Blight]

Tbh Andres or Norwegian could feasibly be sk as well, but I don’t really care anymore. Sk hunting sucks.

Norwegian has put tons of effort into this game, so if he’s the sk that’s fine, he can have it. Andres as well actually, although I haven’t liked the majority of his posts.

[Luca Blight]

I feel as though BBMolla has deliberately sided with scummy players so he wouldn’t eat the NK. He also claimed VT really early. That would explain the desperate need to kill chkflip, who could have been Town from his perspective, as he claimed vanilla cop. If he was checked he’d have no cover.

[Luca Blight]

The sk is clearly non compulsive so they’re not obliged to kill anyone?

If they kill Norwegian then that wouldn’t help a lot either, as he won’t be eliminated.

[Luca Blight]

I already said why yesterday - you don’t take the full picture into consideration. You only look for the things that support the narrative you want to believe. The fact you’re probably town makes this even more frustrating.

Imagine if someone highlighted all the times you pushed Town this game and defended scum, and ignored all the times you played well? I’m pretty sure you’d be cheesed off.

[Luca Blight]

The sk is clearly non compulsive so they’re not obliged to kill anyone?

If they kill Norwegian then that wouldn’t help a lot either, as he won’t be eliminated.

I don’t know how you can be 100% sure that Norwegian would be the target of the SK. If I believed in slips I would argue this is one.

I clearly said the word ‘if’?

I actually think they’d no-kill, but Norwegian isn’t being eliminated so he’d be the logical kill if there was one.

[Luca Blight]

Andres, we can save this talk for post-game.

I have to work now, I’ll be back later.

[Luca Blight]

That sounds miserable. I'd rather just solve this today if possible, but I won't fight against it.

I'm most probably going to vote BBmolla, but I'll try to look back through this game at some point. Probably on Monday.

[Luca Blight]

I think it's probably just Luca, he's been pretty detached the last two days compared to you two

I've been busy recently.

A sk would likely become more involved the nearer to the end they get, as it's basically their time to shine. Before then they need to keep under cover. So I've done pretty much the opposite of that. After the chkflip flip the game was an easy solve from a Mafia PoV, and I've lost a bit of interest now I know there's an sk at large, as I don't find sk hunting fun at all.

[Luca Blight]

I really can't see myself voting anyone other than BBmolla tbh.

VOTE: BBmolla

I don't think Andres is sk, but gg if you are.

[Luca Blight]

Your AtE skills are legendary.

UNVOTE:

I’ll reflect on it tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

Let’s just do this then, for the sake of some insurance.

VOTE: no-kill

Whoever is sk, please just submit a kill otherwise it’s just a waste of time for everyone.

And request fast night pls. I’m off to bed.

[Luca Blight]

This is why I don't like third parties. Both Norwegian and Andres have looked really townie this game, but it doesn't count for a lot when there's an SK.

[Luca Blight]

I think it's fair to say that kill is strange in general.

My first impressions are that it makes slightly more sense coming from Norwegian than Andres.

[Luca Blight]

Andres knew I was expecting a Norwegian NK, so he would have just shot there and I would have most likely voted BBmolla in LYLO.

Norwegian would have more reason to WIFOM the situation.

[Luca Blight]

I wouldn’t do some risky play like that.

All of us could say the same tbh. I think rn you'd have more reason to than Andres.

I will have a look back through the game and see if I can find anything relevant.

[Luca Blight]

Or if we’re doing it. Shouldn’t we discuss what a kill on "x" would mean for the allignment of "y" and vice verca?
An completely unorganized to kill is unacceptable if there is no clear framework of what town wins or gains.

Like this seems just what the 3p wanted - clarity that would have helped determine what NK to make. I wasn’t particularly interested in doing this because I had my thinking, but if I reveal it I’m giving the other party a heads up with regards to what to do.

I kind of agree with this tbh.

Norwegian's strategy would have definitely benefited the SK more than Town, I feel.

[Luca Blight]

I just read the wiki, which says that a rolecop gets a result of 'Vanilla' to an SK, so I'm assuming the SK wasn't aware of that which is why they shot chkflip.

[Luca Blight]

That could maybe explain the Momrangal kill as well

[Luca Blight]

My mind isn’t made up, but I’m leaning towards it being you atm.

Pedit; just confirming I’m not hammering

[Luca Blight]

Well, if you can find anything that helps me see Andres is the SK and not you then that would be good.

[Luca Blight]

Alright well I’m not going to drag this for forever. If you guys are just going to vote BBMolla then I won’t stand in the way. It’s not like I think I’m more likely to figure the SK out than anybody here.

This was quite a sudden change of tone. You thought BBmolla was least likely SK, so why were you so quick to back down here?

[Luca Blight]

I'm about to sleep and will probably make my decision in about 12 hours time.

[Luca Blight]

I feel quite strongly that Norwegian is the SK here. I’m just gonna go for it.

VOTE: Norwegian

Hopefully this was the right call.

[Luca Blight]

Yes

Well played, Andres. You towned it up and made is easy for me there.

Norwegian had a great game as well.

[Luca Blight]

Sorry bro, better luck next time

[Luca Blight]

My main reason for killing Chkflip was because he was the mafia rolecop and i knew that if mafia ever rolecopped me they would make my life harder.

I mentioned earlier that the SK wasn’t aware that they show as vanilla to a role-cop, and it looks as though I was right