TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Ramcius]

VOTE: Nancy

she's on UT's team, she hates anime

[Ramcius]

Flavor Leaf is scum but we can elim him later

I really dislike this way of thinking. You never leave scum alive, unless you have more important scum to eliminate

[Ramcius]

I'm gonna bring back Face Flavor and charm my way to victory this game. Fact: I've only said this once before, and I was scum.

Is this a legendary page 3 scum claim?

[Ramcius]

Heres a run down of what I think so far:

1) I like misty's responses to my questions. They dealt with the pressure well and their answers have a logical consistency to them. I don't really agree with the method of favoring town hunting over scum hunting, but at least they're noting things and have reasons for what they're doing that make a lot of sense to me.

2) Zors reaction to my vote is ultimately NAI. I wanted to see if he would place a different vote or would stick with the NbEE vote. The main thing I don't like about it is that it chooses to actively continue not interacting with the game. This is a very minor ping but I want to call it out because its worth noting later when I go back and look at zor with the benefit of more information.

3) Flavor Leaf has a whole lot of posts with a whole little of substance. I'm not a fan of it so far but like the previous thing its minor because we're so early so I just want to note it for later that its bugging me.

4) I'm not sure why ramcius is getting a pass. Nancy made a response to ico for their entrance into the game, and while they're right there's no content there at least Ico basically said "Hey I'm here, VLA!" which explains the lack of substance. Ramcius has given us nothing of the sort and their iso is basically nonsense. The only thing even resembling a game relevant statement is his theory craft response towards BBMolla.

Think I'm going to VOTE: Ramcius

Any particular thing so far you want me to comment? I haven't seen anything strongly AI yet, therefore I have nothing to say

[Ramcius]

Heres a run down of what I think so far:

1) I like misty's responses to my questions. They dealt with the pressure well and their answers have a logical consistency to them. I don't really agree with the method of favoring town hunting over scum hunting, but at least they're noting things and have reasons for what they're doing that make a lot of sense to me.

2) Zors reaction to my vote is ultimately NAI. I wanted to see if he would place a different vote or would stick with the NbEE vote. The main thing I don't like about it is that it chooses to actively continue not interacting with the game. This is a very minor ping but I want to call it out because its worth noting later when I go back and look at zor with the benefit of more information.

3) Flavor Leaf has a whole lot of posts with a whole little of substance. I'm not a fan of it so far but like the previous thing its minor because we're so early so I just want to note it for later that its bugging me.

4) I'm not sure why ramcius is getting a pass. Nancy made a response to ico for their entrance into the game, and while they're right there's no content there at least Ico basically said "Hey I'm here, VLA!" which explains the lack of substance. Ramcius has given us nothing of the sort and their iso is basically nonsense. The only thing even resembling a game relevant statement is his theory craft response towards BBMolla.

Think I'm going to VOTE: Ramcius

Any particular thing so far you want me to comment? I haven't seen anything strongly AI yet, therefore I have nothing to say

I'd like you to give an indication that you're looking. What have you looked at? Why did you decide it wasn't AI. There's been a bunch that has happened so I'm not letting you get away with "I have nothing to say."

A bunch? Can you name a few things that you think are strongly AI? Given how you're harping at me for not posting anything relevant means that you haven't seen anything scum AI yourself yet, so what this interrogation is really about?

[Ramcius]

Spoiler:

Heres a run down of what I think so far:

1) I like misty's responses to my questions. They dealt with the pressure well and their answers have a logical consistency to them. I don't really agree with the method of favoring town hunting over scum hunting, but at least they're noting things and have reasons for what they're doing that make a lot of sense to me.

2) Zors reaction to my vote is ultimately NAI. I wanted to see if he would place a different vote or would stick with the NbEE vote. The main thing I don't like about it is that it chooses to actively continue not interacting with the game. This is a very minor ping but I want to call it out because its worth noting later when I go back and look at zor with the benefit of more information.

3) Flavor Leaf has a whole lot of posts with a whole little of substance. I'm not a fan of it so far but like the previous thing its minor because we're so early so I just want to note it for later that its bugging me.

4) I'm not sure why ramcius is getting a pass. Nancy made a response to ico for their entrance into the game, and while they're right there's no content there at least Ico basically said "Hey I'm here, VLA!" which explains the lack of substance. Ramcius has given us nothing of the sort and their iso is basically nonsense. The only thing even resembling a game relevant statement is his theory craft response towards BBMolla.

Think I'm going to VOTE: Ramcius

Any particular thing so far you want me to comment? I haven't seen anything strongly AI yet, therefore I have nothing to say

I'd like you to give an indication that you're looking. What have you looked at? Why did you decide it wasn't AI. There's been a bunch that has happened so I'm not letting you get away with "I have nothing to say."

A bunch? Can you name a few things that you think are strongly AI? Given how you're harping at me for not posting anything relevant means that you haven't seen anything scum AI yourself yet, so what this interrogation is really about?

literally read the post that you're quoting.

1. Scum can be reasonable too and townhunting is a safe option to sit there doing nothing. Scumhunting is where sparks fly

2. You literally say NAI

3. You admit that FL spamming with little substance is minor thing, so what you want me to do? It's just how he rolls

I hope you're satisfied with my answers

[Ramcius]

You have still not answered my question, which had nothing to do with what I have or have not found alignment indicative but rather with what things you have been looking at and why you decided they were NAI.

So no, I'm not.

AI is things that people say as one alignment, but not as other, because it would be detrimental to them

[Ramcius]

Pretty happy with my vote though, since as far as I can tell our interaction went like this:

1) I call you out for having no posts of game substance
2) You respond asking me what I would like you to comment on because nothing has happened that is AI.
3) I say I'm not letting you get away with that because a bunch has happened and I ask you to tell me what things you've looked at that have happened that were not AI and how you arrived at that conclusion because I want to see where and what you're looking at and your thought process behind why you've come to your conclusions that not much AI has happened.
4) You respond with essentially "NO U" to me by saying I haven't provided much either while quoting a post where I list things that have happened that I found either noteworthy or AI and fail to answer my question.
5) I point out you haven't answered my question and point out that literally the post you're quoting which you clearly haven't even read includes the things youre accusing me of "also not doing"
6) You go through the things in that post while STILL not answering my question and then ask if I'm satisfied.

I am interested in your thought process. I am interested in any indication that you're reading the game in a way thats attempting to discern alignment. If nothing has happened that is AI it should be trivial to point out where things have happened that you considered and then dismissed. I just don't see any indication that you're trying to find scum at all.

I don't sit there contemplating if post is AI or not. If I see something that make no sense for one alignment, that's AI, if not, that's NAI. No post here felt out of place enough for me to bring it up

Well, except for your insistence on your initial post that reeks scum busywork, I wanted to see if you have any real follow up, but seems like that was all you had were some things that weren't really noteworthy in the end

[Ramcius]

Well, except for your insistence on your initial post that reeks scum busywork

Can you elaborate on what about Status's post reeked of scum busywork?

Very first one, where he voted me

[Ramcius]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78060&user_select%5B%5D=28978

Ram towngame

@Ram, I couldn’t find your scumgame. Can you link it? Thanks.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76181

[Ramcius]

Well, except for your insistence on your initial post that reeks scum busywork

Can you elaborate on what about Status's post reeked of scum busywork?

Very first one, where he voted me

how is asking you to have an opinion on things that have happened so far busywork? How is asking what your thought process is for if something is alignment indicative or not busy work? How are those not the core tenets of being town vs being scum in a game of mafia.

How asking opinion on things that you know are irrelevant is going to progress the game? You posted some "noteworthy" events, yet you haven't provided any substantial conclusions or thoughts, it was just" hey, guys, look, I'm doing things, I'm not scum"

[Ramcius]

The “scum busywork” to describe scumhunting is lul

Is scumhunting without any results is a scumhunting?

[Ramcius]

The “scum busywork” to describe scumhunting is lul

Is scumhunting without any results is a scumhunting?

Yes, because I need to sort YOU. So I am interested in YOUR thought process and YOUR conclusions and how you reached them.

What makes my slot more important than the rest?

[Ramcius]

The “scum busywork” to describe scumhunting is lul

Is scumhunting without any results is a scumhunting?

Yes, because I need to sort YOU. So I am interested in YOUR thought process and YOUR conclusions and how you reached them.

What makes my slot more important than the rest?

This is a strawman. I never claimed that you were more important than any other slot.

But all this attention from you to my slot makes me feel really special while you're neglecting the rest

[Ramcius]

Your vote was terrible, your question was terrible, I mean, how I'm supposed to explain why I see posts as NAI? I can explain why I think certain post comes from town or scum, but explaining why post isn't pinging me one way or another is simply impossible. Nah, I'm not trying to discredit you, I'm pointing out that your scumhunting is just a fluff, you didn't provide any reads. You aren't engaging any other slot, only mine, so I'm naturally wondering why you're doing so, that's not a strawman argument, that's a fact. So can we get over it and you move on someone else already?

[Ramcius]

I don't think it necessarily means Ramcius is scum, though, but I do get what Status is saying. Aggressive style. I kind of don't know how to interact with them.

Mistyx, that was a solid defense. I'm gonna think things over.

Now that's interesting, we interacted quite a bit in Fogport and I was aggressive just like now

[Ramcius]

I think you should focus less on Ramcius for a while and if he keeps being egregious you can go back to him Statusquo.

Keely thinks this is a really weird post. He wonders why you would want someone to stop putting pressure in a place where they think scum might live.

He also thinks that townRamcius would have voted me based off of how he's portraying his reaction to my push, like if you think I'm attacking you for garbage and busy work where is the vote? It's wonky to be keeping a RVS vote in this case given how he's posturing towards me.

What makes him think that I wouldn't vote you as a scum here? To put it simply, I have no idea about your playstyle, so I wanted to know you better first, people become really defensive after being voted

Also to make some things clear, I didn't got aggressive due pressure vote, I did it because you refused to engage in a discussion, normally people would list things they want to know, you just kept this vague "a bunch of things happened" and expected me to look for things on my own. Also I got an idea that you had no intentions for a discussion and your only goal was reaction test vote given you did same to zor

[Ramcius]

yeah ok, I'll go with weird then. I think there's much better places to push right now. Like for instance how ramcius disappeared from the thread as soon as I stopped focusing on them and how like 3 different people said "ramcius is a good vote" or "I agree with tsq on ramcius" but none of them actually managed to find their votes there.

Doesn't make a fella want to move his vote and I think there should be more pressure here.

I live in GMT+2, I simply went to sleep

[Ramcius]

yeah ok, I'll go with weird then. I think there's much better places to push right now. Like for instance how ramcius disappeared from the thread as soon as I stopped focusing on them and how like 3 different people said "ramcius is a good vote" or "I agree with tsq on ramcius" but none of them actually managed to find their votes there.

Doesn't make a fella want to move his vote and I think there should be more pressure here.

I live in GMT+2, I simply went to sleep

This is still not an opinion on literal anything that has happened in the game that isn't you or me.

When I see something really noteworthy, I'll let you know

[Ramcius]

Also you talk about things happening, yet I don't see your reads based on these events. Zor thing is NAI

[Ramcius]

Also you talk about things happening, yet I don't see your reads based on these events. Zor thing is NAI

This is literally another blatant misrep. I have a strong scum read on you which I am backing up with a vote. I have a town read on misty which I've talked about several times. I've given my teammates reads on several players in the game and talked about where I agreed and disagreed with them. I've talked about my thoughts on zors entrance and response to me in the context of disagreeing with people who were literally scum reading him.

Like this is just blatantly false. Like not even close to true.

Try again please, I have more game content in this literal post than you have in the entire thread.

I don't count your sr on me, you never said that you TR Mistyx, only that you liked her responses, teammates reads aren't yours, and Zor is NAI, I don't get an impression that you know him that well to make such claims

[Ramcius]

@Ramicius, what are your reads so far?

None, I haven't seen anything yet that really stood out and I'm trying to figure out TSQ for most part.

[Ramcius]

Ramcius has continued to be absent from the thread any time their name has not been brought up. Continues to respond to my vote in the most awful possibly ways. Continues to not be able to give a single shred of townie mindset on anything that has happened.

We here at Ramcius Wagon LLC are still actively recruiting, we're looking to expand by oh, call it 5 or so people in the next 11 days. No pay but our benefits package of getting to eliminate scum is fire.

If you have any questions or want my opinion on things, you can ask, but I mean normal qustions, not demand me to describe my scumhunting practices, I can't describe that in few sentences

[Ramcius]

Hm, Akarin is awfully quiet still

You for some reason don't try to reach other people in this game to ask how you should read me, some of them have experience playing with me, you know. Also, I'm kinda surprised that Cheetory didn't tell you that pressuring me like that is pointless, he did it after all and it ended with my miselim.

I don't have much to say about people pointing fingers at each other semi randomly for barely AI reasons

And one more time, if you want my opinion on something specific, just point there

[Ramcius]

My problem with you is that you aren't trying to find compromise, but you're just keeping tension between us. I'll be real, I don't see any reason to TR you, I don't get any pissed off townie vibes, I don't see you changing tactics, you just demand same thing that I refuse to do. Did someone suggested you to pressure me, because I had really short temper in past that got me miselime'd quite a few times early on?

[Ramcius]

VOTE: TSQ

Not that I expect it to turn into a real wagon

[Ramcius]

DGB says that TGP look like weasel, easy to change opinions, hiding behind teammates opinions, too much trust in unconfirmed meta

[Ramcius]

DGB says that TGP look like weasel, easy to change opinions, hiding behind teammates opinions, too much trust in unconfirmed meta

wh...where did I hide behind my teammate's opinions? i don't think i mentioned a single one of my teammate's opinions so far this game, so i'm going to go with this "read" from dgb as absolute garbage.

DGB said that you're pinning reads on teammates, I just tried to paraphrase, if that helps you

[Ramcius]

I'm getting really frustrated that no one is willing to join me on ramcius more than anything else.

You know, you need to provide a good reason for people to join a wagon

[Ramcius]

I'm getting really frustrated that no one is willing to join me on ramcius more than anything else.

-low content
-dodging conversation
-lurking as soon as pressure on them stops

is that about it or was there more substance that I overlooked?

I agree on low content, I'm not dodging conversation, it's just that TSQ isn't really interested in conversation, I don't lurk, I post, when I can and when I have something to say or to reply to TSQ

[Ramcius]

I'm getting really frustrated that no one is willing to join me on ramcius more than anything else.

You know, you need to provide a good reason for people to join a wagon

Real talk what is the purpose of this post other that to be an asshole? Like clearly I think the reasons for finding you scum are strong.

I told you, I don't like how you just keep tension, you aren't moving away, neither you put any reasonable effort to get my wagon going. As for second part, you need think about others, not yourself, just because you think reasons are strong doesn't mean other have the same opinion

[Ramcius]

i'd be okay with voting ramicus i think

Why?

[Ramcius]

DGB says that TGP look like weasel, easy to change opinions, hiding behind teammates opinions, too much trust in unconfirmed meta

wh...where did I hide behind my teammate's opinions? i don't think i mentioned a single one of my teammate's opinions so far this game, so i'm going to go with this "read" from dgb as absolute garbage.

DGB said that you're pinning reads on teammates, I just tried to paraphrase, if that helps you

can she (or you, whatever) link one post where i pinned my reads on teammates?

I'll ask, but that might be just genuine error as she was reading everyone's ISOs and giving reads

[Ramcius]

DGB says that TGP look like weasel, easy to change opinions, hiding behind teammates opinions, too much trust in unconfirmed meta

wh...where did I hide behind my teammate's opinions? i don't think i mentioned a single one of my teammate's opinions so far this game, so i'm going to go with this "read" from dgb as absolute garbage.

DGB said that you're pinning reads on teammates, I just tried to paraphrase, if that helps you

can she (or you, whatever) link one post where i pinned my reads on teammates?

I'll ask, but that might be just genuine error as she was reading everyone's ISOs and giving reads

Indeed, it was an error on her part, it was about TSQ

[Ramcius]

VOTE: Zoraster

Rather here than Pine, if based strictly on familiarity. Their line about me swayed me too, let's be honest, that's how you pocket me. Flattery will get you everywhere.

PEdit:
Interesting. I'm indifferent of this being the go to compromise wagon.

I need a course in how to make myself pocket proof.

Paranoia, big amount of paranoia, see everyone as a scum and then no one would pocket you

[Ramcius]

I'm actually much more into the Ram wagon now than I was when I voted.

Any particular reason why you want my wagon? I mean, you can ask me questions, so only thing you could achieve through wagon that you can't now is my claim, which begs a question, why would you want that?

[Ramcius]

not hammering zor

fine parked on TGP

it's like 11 pm and i've cried more tonight than in the past like, month? but i dont think its anything to worry about and going into any more detail would probably be oversharing, so like, perfect mood for mafia

still would also wagon ramicus, didn't like his last post, and also "my teammate said that you are relying too much on your teammates" is a pretty good meme

i'm tired.

What's wrong with my last post? I'd really liked, if TSQ pushed my wagon, it helped me to read him better from the actual push and him forcing people to take stances on my slot would helped to read other people, but seems he chose top let it go, which isn't bad either, so I can put my mind to other things and not worry about him breathing on my neck

Also, I guess you forgot our scumgame from off site, it was few years after all, or you'll know that I don't t ask for my teammates help as a scum

[Ramcius]

VOTE: Zoraster

Rather here than Pine, if based strictly on familiarity. Their line about me swayed me too, let's be honest, that's how you pocket me. Flattery will get you everywhere.

PEdit:
Interesting. I'm indifferent of this being the go to compromise wagon.

I need a course in how to make myself pocket proof.

Paranoia, big amount of paranoia, see everyone as a scum and then no one would pocket you

I’m asking more how I can better see though pockets on me rather than how to avoid them.

Get better at scumhunting then

[Ramcius]

not hammering zor

fine parked on TGP

it's like 11 pm and i've cried more tonight than in the past like, month? but i dont think its anything to worry about and going into any more detail would probably be oversharing, so like, perfect mood for mafia

still would also wagon ramicus, didn't like his last post, and also "my teammate said that you are relying too much on your teammates" is a pretty good meme

i'm tired.

What's wrong with my last post? I'd really liked, if TSQ pushed my wagon, it helped me to read him better from the actual push and him forcing people to take stances on my slot would helped to read other people, but seems he chose top let it go, which isn't bad either, so I can put my mind to other things and not worry about him breathing on my neck

Also, I guess you forgot our scumgame from off site, it was few years after all, or you'll know that I don't t ask for my teammates help as a scum

I like this post but I find that interesting. I have yet to be scum in TM but I definitely think I’d be relying on my teammates’ help a lot more than when I’m town. Yes as town I seek reads but as scum, I’d really need the feedback on how I’m coming across etc. where as town, that thought never even enters my head.

Did you actually read my scumgame in here? I pretty much bussed all my team with 100% confidence As for that game, I replaced in mid D1, my predecessor said some bad stuff and bailed, so I was in fire from get go, my scumbuddy, who was hard townread by everyone told me to stop talking and let him sort it out, but I was like, "nah, I got it"

[Ramcius]

Does Ramcius get emotional as mafia?

What do you mean by emotional? All I can tell is that I hate rolling town and I enjoy playing scum, that's something I say all the time, so it's not something I'm just making up now, it's out there, people seen it, maybe you've seen too, we played quite a few times

[Ramcius]

Let's summon Akarin back to this thread, guys

VOTE: Akarin

[Ramcius]

akarin is clearly playing the LHF game, unexplained vote on Ramcius, doubles down on Ramcius without a single word on why.
Latest posts are only to justify a potential hammer on Zor.

With all that's said and done in this game, it's a really really bad iso.

I had plenty of time to hammer Zor if I'd been sure I wanted to.

Summary on Ram: I agree with TSQ.

Can you give more details on what you agree exactly?

[Ramcius]

I am once again asking why Ramcius isn't scum.

I have green rolecard, duh

Do I really need to ask you again to push my wagon and to stop just posturing about your sr on me? It's getting old

[Ramcius]

I am once again asking why Ramcius isn't scum.

I have green rolecard, duh

Do I really need to ask you again to push my wagon and to stop just posturing about your sr on me? It's getting old

This is hilarious, I've been trying to get you eliminated all game. lol posturing. I moved because no one else agreed but now maybe there's some people willing to join me. Don't be fooled by my willingness to work on others that have more traction, I still think you're scum and I never stopped thinking you're scum.

Let's do a recap:

You make a post "Mistyx is townlean, Zor's reaction is NAI, FL hyperposting is sus" and end it with a vote on me, I say it looks like scum busywork, well, all you did was to call Mistyx townlean, well, you said you liked her responses, it wasn't even shallow townlean. You get upset and say I poison your well. I call you out on your deathtunnel on me and ask why I'm so special that you ignore everyone else, I get "strawman argument" from you You start boasting how much you do, but when I call that a bs, well only thing you did was shallow zor's TR that you kinda retracted and said you have no problem voting him and bringing some reads from your team that you admit you don't even agree yourself, but I'm discrediting your great "work". You call me scum, but when I ask to put some effort where your words are, twice, mind you, you decide to work on others without saying word, apparently no one wants to follow you. How about you give actual reasons why I'm scum and not just some ridiculous nonsense how I'm shading you, when you put 0 effort to expose this shade of mine on you

Only reason why my vote isn't on you is Akarin trying to piggyback you to sr me and I have no idea what to do out of it

[Ramcius]

I am once again asking why Ramcius isn't scum.

I have green rolecard, duh

Do I really need to ask you again to push my wagon and to stop just posturing about your sr on me? It's getting old

This is hilarious, I've been trying to get you eliminated all game. lol posturing. I moved because no one else agreed but now maybe there's some people willing to join me. Don't be fooled by my willingness to work on others that have more traction, I still think you're scum and I never stopped thinking you're scum.

Let's do a recap:

You make a post "Mistyx is townlean, Zor's reaction is NAI, FL hyperposting is sus" and end it with a vote on me, I say it looks like scum busywork, well, all you did was to call Mistyx townlean, well, you said you liked her responses, it wasn't even shallow townlean. You get upset and say I poison your well. I call you out on your deathtunnel on me and ask why I'm so special that you ignore everyone else, I get "strawman argument" from you You start boasting how much you do, but when I call that a bs, well only thing you did was shallow zor's TR that you kinda retracted and said you have no problem voting him and bringing some reads from your team that you admit you don't even agree yourself, but I'm discrediting your great "work". You call me scum, but when I ask to put some effort where your words are, twice, mind you, you decide to work on others without saying word, apparently no one wants to follow you. How about you give actual reasons why I'm scum and not just some ridiculous nonsense how I'm shading you, when you put 0 effort to expose this shade of mine on you

Only reason why my vote isn't on you is Akarin trying to piggyback you to sr me and I have no idea what to do out of it

It's amazing how just about nothing you said here is accurate.

I want to say I'm surprised, but I'm not. I give another chance for you to prove how much of a scum I am, yet you just shrug it off with "it's inaccurate"

[Ramcius]

Like I called you out on having no substance at all and then you decided that the best response was to suggest that I also have no substance as if that is some kind of defense. Meanwhile, we're on page 41, you still have not been able to showcase even baseline scum hunting. Who is scum? You have an opinion on me but I think I've seen you give maybe one other opinion on anyone the entire game and it was completely surface level. Once again, here you are, only popping up when I'm talking about you and at no other time. Giving no other opinions. Not trying to find scum in any meaningful sense.

For starters, I'm saying that Alkarin piggybacking you is very susp

What are yours not surface level reads? Also, did Cheetory said anything else about me after telling you that I would've voted you as a town there?

[Ramcius]

Like I called you out on having no substance at all and then you decided that the best response was to suggest that I also have no substance as if that is some kind of defense. Meanwhile, we're on page 41, you still have not been able to showcase even baseline scum hunting. Who is scum? You have an opinion on me but I think I've seen you give maybe one other opinion on anyone the entire game and it was completely surface level. Once again, here you are, only popping up when I'm talking about you and at no other time. Giving no other opinions. Not trying to find scum in any meaningful sense.

For starters, I'm saying that Alkarin piggybacking you is very susp

What are yours not surface level reads? Also, did Cheetory said anything else about me after telling you that I would've voted you as a town there?

Last time I gave team reads you jumped on me about it, so I'm not particularly inclined to think you're asking this question in good faith.

So, no reads of yours, excuse to not give a read of your teammate which I ask for 3rd time already. How I'm supposed to have a content, if you refuse to answer anything?

[Ramcius]

Read my iso if you want my reads. They're there. Tons of them. Anyone in this game could tell you that the claim I haven't given reads is laughable.

I asked what are your not surface level reads, why is it too hard to answer such a simple question without sending me to dig through your ISO? I mean, even your scumread on me isn't that strong, you admitting that you can see me as a town feels like scum setting up for my green flip

[Ramcius]

Ramcius if TSQ is town, who is scum?

Akarin, it really strikes me weird how she uses TSQ as a front for her read on me

[Ramcius]

I have expressed opinions on probably every person in this game. If you want them, they're there bud.

No, me saying you could be town is an admission of the fact that I am not infallible and no read is ever 100%.

You asked me for my not surface level reads, I just want to see what you call not surface level read, so why is it so hard to provide it? I don't ask for opinions that you change on the next page, they useless

[Ramcius]

I'll be blunt, this game has way too much AtE and meta shit for me to actually do anything. Trying to engage people, who are scumreading me isn't working either, so I'm good to end this day, I'm pretty sure one of Akarin/TSQ is scum and I'd go with Akarin first

[Ramcius]

Says a man who tried a lot and still achieved nothing. Why do more, if end result is the same?

[Ramcius]

I think we have the slowest game in all of TM.

We're faster than mini normal

[Ramcius]

What if I told you that things which are wrong from your perspective arent necessarily wrong from the perspective of people who aren't you? That's my biggest problem with your reasoning. All the other stuff besides that seems spot on.

Also I'm trying to decide if I'm voting pine or not. I don't think I'm willing to let them come in, do dick all while angrily shading me and then disengage from the game again.

Yes I get that and I think that’s likely true for all of us. I usually only understand why I’m getting scumread is when I actually get a red role pm. Otherwise, I obviously have somewhat of a blind spot I can’t do much about but I actually do get by best reads that way and I still don’t tr TGP and that isn’t helped by him being on a wagon I’m pretty sure is town.

People are paranoid, or bad at mafia, choose whichever you like more, at least that helps me to deal with scumreads on me

[Ramcius]

might be worth to resolve in Status-Ramcius

Whole TSQ push on me is our different playstyles, he likes to comment on everything, I don't like to comment unless I have strong opinion or something really pings me and I go berserk mode

[Ramcius]

I do think Nancy is obvtown at this point, i just don't believe their argument on why TGP is definitely scum is as suuuuuper convincing as they make it out to be. So i want to just keep wagoning Zor who has been scummier.

ok but my question is what has nancy done this game that she couldn't theoretically replicate as scum? Like, yeah I agree that in general that shes more likely to be town than not based on how I'm reading her motivations but I don't understand why scum nancy could not play this exact game this exact same way?

Scum!Nancy is pretty one-dimensional imo, they also lurk more. They are definitely aggressive as both alignments as i've pointed out before, but their reasons for getting mad so far makes sense from them.
I'm really not seeing them as scum in this game, and you can quote me on that henceforth.

Activity is 100% NAI for me. I’ve done any and everything activity wise as every alignment: town, scum, 3P. That’s why I got upset earlier at FL’s Auro read because I’ve lurked passively/actively, replaced out, hyper posted etc. as all 3 alignments, so activity is never an accurate way to read me. Not sure I’d necessarily agree with the “one dimensional” part either. It’s more how I approach reads and the game. In a nutshell, you could tell I was scum in that game because it was beyond clear I had no interest in solving but then I might have also possibly been demotivated as town once the masons decided to direct it but I agree with most of this. I am generally much more highly motivated when I’m town because my juice is in solving riddles and having to give fake reads, solves, etc. is as boring af, so I really hate doing that.

When you'll figure out that playing as a scum is a puzzle too and probably even harder than playing as a town, you'll ascend

[Ramcius]

Ramcius can you try to focus on something other than yourself or how other slots interact with you.
What's your take on the game right now?

I believe I posted it - I have no interest in "meta" discussions and AtE that are going for most part now, I said I'm fine with flipping Akarin today. If you want anything specific, you can ask me, but don't be second TSQ and tell me "do the thing"

[Ramcius]

What if I told you that things which are wrong from your perspective arent necessarily wrong from the perspective of people who aren't you? That's my biggest problem with your reasoning. All the other stuff besides that seems spot on.

Also I'm trying to decide if I'm voting pine or not. I don't think I'm willing to let them come in, do dick all while angrily shading me and then disengage from the game again.

Yes I get that and I think that’s likely true for all of us. I usually only understand why I’m getting scumread is when I actually get a red role pm. Otherwise, I obviously have somewhat of a blind spot I can’t do much about but I actually do get by best reads that way and I still don’t tr TGP and that isn’t helped by him being on a wagon I’m pretty sure is town.

People are paranoid, or bad at mafia, choose whichever you like more, at least that helps me to deal with scumreads on me

What is your current read on Ico?

I wouldn't mind, if he ate a bullet, doesn't matter from who - scum or vig, but I'm not interested in voting him today

[Ramcius]

Do the thing.


DO THE THING!

So, your attempt to engage me was just to show some busywork? You don't even care why I'm happy with Akarin elim today, nor you trying to convince me to choose someone else, like zor, who is pretty much in same spot as Akarin - scummy lurker

[Ramcius]

Do the thing.


DO THE THING!

So, your attempt to engage me was just to show some busywork? You don't even care why I'm happy with Akarin elim today, nor you trying to convince me to choose someone else, like zor, who is pretty much in same spot as Akarin - scummy lurker

That post you're quoting was a joke.

I'm aware of that, I'm asking why you decided to make a joke and not follow up with something serious after you got same thing that I posted not that long ago? It gives me feeling that you didn't bothered ISOing me, nor did you cared about follow up to your question about my opinion on gamestate

[Ramcius]

Hm, it's second time zor at E-1 and DEB is nowhere to be seen again

[Ramcius]

Creature approve zor's elim

[Ramcius]

then why are you purposefully staying off the wagon?

I believe that I have right to disagree with my teammates and I never expressed any read towards zor, so hammering him now wouldn't be best idea for me. Also, I want to see if DEB will follow through with his hammer, but I want some more useful flip than lurker, who's likely to flip green

[Ramcius]

FL, did I see a day, when you will trust me?

[Ramcius]

Yeah, no, I believe 1 lurker flip is enough for now

VOTE: TGP

[Ramcius]

Why TGP?

@Ramcius

He was most promising counterwagon to zor

Also, DGB said that he was "too good" and that's sometimes a sign of scum and I agree with that - scum are more likely to think through everything they say

[Ramcius]

Yeah, no, I believe 1 lurker flip is enough for now

VOTE: TGP

alright, this is the post that makes me believe the earlier fight between TSQ and Ramcius was TvS. Saying "1 lurker flip is enough" attempts to take attention off of people who should have attention on them, and makes it easy to defend people who aren't particularly defensible. i'm not a fan of it at all, and when i've seen it i think it's done far more often from scum trying to take the heat off of their buddies than town genuinely being against flipping lurkers.

VOTE: akarin couple reasons i'm voting akarin instead of ramcius right now - first, a scum flip from her incriminates ramcius far more than vice versa largely because of this post. second, i haven't seen much in the way of town posts from akarin, and i think ramcius will be sorted by other flips eventually in a way that akarin will not because of lack of interactions.

I agree that me and TSQ is TvS, but there's no way I can get TSQ wagon going

Akarin promised to be more active D2, so there is no need to pile votes one her, ofc if she won't keep her promise, then we can think about her wagon, but right now it might have opposite effect and just piss her off

[Ramcius]

Why TGP?

@Ramcius

He was most promising counterwagon to zor

Also, DGB said that he was "too good" and that's sometimes a sign of scum and I agree with that - scum are more likely to think through everything they say

i was... too good? i don't understand how dgb is reading here, because i certainly don't think i've played particularly well this game.

She meant posting style, I had to paraphrase and that's closest thing I could think

[Ramcius]

Why TGP?

@Ramcius

He was most promising counterwagon to zor

Also, DGB said that he was "too good" and that's sometimes a sign of scum and I agree with that - scum are more likely to think through everything they say

He literally had only one vote on him: mine and it wasn’t even close to hammer.

Only competing wagons if you ignore DEB’s vanity vote on you, were Molla and Akarin.

Molla wasn't going anywhere and Akarin was even less likely than zor, both lurk wagons, but zor had that "bad" post. TGP claimed, so he was under enough pressure to do it, also I didn't liked how TSQ and Norwee were chasing you from TGP, while admitting they don't TR him

[Ramcius]

Also, you forgot pressure on Pine, which was another lurk push that wasn't going anywhere

[Ramcius]

When did Norwee do that?

Did I remember wrong? I remember someone saying that you were pushing TGP for wrong reasons, was it someone else?

[Ramcius]

I don't think I did that either.

Did you claimed TR on TGP? I clearly remember you chasing Nancy away from TGP

[Ramcius]

When did Norwee do that?

Did I remember wrong? I remember someone saying that you were pushing TGP for wrong reasons, was it someone else?

Iconeum and TGP but I’d have to check.

Maybe, but I think I skipped majority of Ico and your bickering, also Norwee and Ico kinda felt same to me for some reason

[Ramcius]

I don't think I did that either.

Did you claimed TR on TGP? I clearly remember you chasing Nancy away from TGP

The closest I came to calling TGP town was I think when I was arguing with nancy about the way she conceptualizes scum play vs town play, but I just checked and even in that post I explicitly said that TGP could be scum.

I do not believe I've ever been town reading TGP this game? Could be wrong about that, I talk a lot and change my mind and don't have the greatest memory, but I don't believe I said I think he's town. Mainly because I don't think I ever thought he was >rand chance to be town.

This is exactly what I'm saying - you chase Nancy away from TGP, yet you didn't TR him, but no, you have to barge in and tell me that I'm wrong

[Ramcius]

Also, you forgot pressure on Pine, which was another lurk push that wasn't going anywhere

Half this game are lurkers.
Refusing to vote a wagon because they lurk is like saying you refuse to vote a huge chunk of slots only for that reason.

Dunno, I want to play mafia, not pile on a lurker and wait them to do nothing, we tried that already, how much info you got from zor's wagon and flip? Next, what do you expect to get from Akarin's wagon/flip?

[Ramcius]

I thought TGP was also a potential fade yesterday, so I don't think that comment is bad by them, and doesn't warrant shading.

TGP claimed yesterday, so I think it's fair for them to think that they were under pressure, because they were.

Who is this directed to me or TGP because TGP wasn’t a viable counterwagon close to EoD?

I disagree. Votes don't matter, it's momentum.

At least someone understands how useless votes are most of the time

[Ramcius]

Yeah, no, I believe 1 lurker flip is enough for now

VOTE: TGP

alright, this is the post that makes me believe the earlier fight between TSQ and Ramcius was TvS. Saying "1 lurker flip is enough" attempts to take attention off of people who should have attention on them, and makes it easy to defend people who aren't particularly defensible. i'm not a fan of it at all, and when i've seen it i think it's done far more often from scum trying to take the heat off of their buddies than town genuinely being against flipping lurkers.

VOTE: akarin couple reasons i'm voting akarin instead of ramcius right now - first, a scum flip from her incriminates ramcius far more than vice versa largely because of this post. second, i haven't seen much in the way of town posts from akarin, and i think ramcius will be sorted by other flips eventually in a way that akarin will not because of lack of interactions.

Don’t you think this is a bit of an over reaction to the start of D2? I’d think if Akarin and Ram were aligned, he wouldn’t want to go out of his way to paint such a ginormous target on him. I’d view this as somewhere between neutral to possibly even anti-associative.

TGP makes bad pushes as town, so you have no way how to evaluate it if he isn’t.

Are you doubting your TR on me now?

[Ramcius]

Yeah, no, I believe 1 lurker flip is enough for now

VOTE: TGP

alright, this is the post that makes me believe the earlier fight between TSQ and Ramcius was TvS. Saying "1 lurker flip is enough" attempts to take attention off of people who should have attention on them, and makes it easy to defend people who aren't particularly defensible. i'm not a fan of it at all, and when i've seen it i think it's done far more often from scum trying to take the heat off of their buddies than town genuinely being against flipping lurkers.

VOTE: akarin couple reasons i'm voting akarin instead of ramcius right now - first, a scum flip from her incriminates ramcius far more than vice versa largely because of this post. second, i haven't seen much in the way of town posts from akarin, and i think ramcius will be sorted by other flips eventually in a way that akarin will not because of lack of interactions.

Don’t you think this is a bit of an over reaction to the start of D2? I’d think if Akarin and Ram were aligned, he wouldn’t want to go out of his way to paint such a ginormous target on him. I’d view this as somewhere between neutral to possibly even anti-associative.

TGP makes bad pushes as town, so you have no way how to evaluate it if he isn’t.

Are you doubting your TR on me now?

No, I’m trying to evaluate TGP because bad reasoning isn’t AI for him,

I mean, i expect to hear how ridiculous idea it was to even think like that about your TR, but you say there's a possibility that I tried to turn my scumbuddy into counterwagon to zor

[Ramcius]

Norwe, it seems like you missed my question, so I'll ask again - what do you expect to learn from Akarin's wagon/flip?

[Ramcius]

I'll be blunt, this game has way too much AtE and meta shit for me to actually do anything. Trying to engage people, who are scumreading me isn't working either, so I'm good to end this day, I'm pretty sure one of Akarin/TSQ is scum and I'd go with Akarin first

What happened to this btw?
You seem to have changed your opinion on Akarin completely today.

As I said to TGP, I don't see a reason to pressure Akarin right now as she promised to be more active D2 and thus I expect to have a chance to sort her. TSQ is still a scum tho, but no one agrees with me, so there's no point in voting him

What do you learn about D1 wagons from Akarin's flip?

[Ramcius]

Ok.

Anyway. I'm waiting for your answer @Ramcius.

What an impatient guy

VOTE: Norwe

[Ramcius]

What do you learn about D1 wagons from Akarin's flip?

I don't know yet. I'm just voting them for reactions and later wagon analyzis. And it's also PoE because i'm townreading most other slots yesterday, so if they aren't scum then that means no scum was wagoned at all yesterday and that'd be good information to have.

So, you prefer to vote a lurk slot with no real plan instead of trying to go after some more active slot that can be actually engaged?

[Ramcius]

What do you learn about D1 wagons from Akarin's flip?

I don't know yet. I'm just voting them for reactions and later wagon analyzis. And it's also PoE because i'm townreading most other slots yesterday, so if they aren't scum then that means no scum was wagoned at all yesterday and that'd be good information to have.

So, you prefer to vote a lurk slot with no real plan instead of trying to go after some more active slot that can be actually engaged?

I think you could convince TSQ to vote me and maybe TGP with his idea of me and Akarin being scumbuddies, so that would be 3 votes on me, while you have 2 on Akarin right now.

[Ramcius]

What do you learn about D1 wagons from Akarin's flip?

I don't know yet. I'm just voting them for reactions and later wagon analyzis. And it's also PoE because i'm townreading most other slots yesterday, so if they aren't scum then that means no scum was wagoned at all yesterday and that'd be good information to have.

So, you prefer to vote a lurk slot with no real plan instead of trying to go after some more active slot that can be actually engaged?

I think you could convince TSQ to vote me and maybe TGP with his idea of me and Akarin being scumbuddies, so that would be 3 votes on me, while you have 2 on Akarin right now.

If Akarin is scum then that would look worse for you though.

Why are you so concerned about my image in this game?

[Ramcius]

Why are you so concerned about my image in this game?

How is this question helping you solve me?
If you really care then i'd assume you would ask questions of substance and not ones that have no real purpose.

Well, you were talking about voting me, then few posts later you care about my image and how I would look bad, if Akarin would flip red, so I want to know your thought process that led to this

[Ramcius]

D2
>You express suspicion on Akarin and would like to vote there.

D3
>I vote Akarin
>You say you don't want to vote Akarin because you hate lurker wagons.
>Vote me because i vote Akarin.
>I express suspicion on your motivations and express that if Akarin is scum then that makes you more likely scum
>You question this.


What about this was so curious you had to ask for elaboration of my mindset?

I never said that I hate lurker wagons, I said that I see no reason to vote a lurker.
I never said that I voted you for voting Akarin, I voted you, because I think you're scum and you have no real reason to vote Akarin aside from the fact that she was a D1 wagon
I question your wording - there is different between "it makes you more likely to be scum" and "it will make you look worse"

[Ramcius]

I just don't like how Ramcius seemed to have no opinion coming in today, until randomly attacking me when he's ignored me up to now. Only because daddy FL is pushing me. I think it's a very safe position to be in as scum to push me in the name of Flavour Leaf, and justifying yourself with logic only when the actual wagon has been set up.

I came in swinging at TGP and my push had more weight behind it than your petty "let's flip Akarin for info". Did I really ignored you? I remember you trying to look busy by asking for my opinions D1 and doing nothing afterwards, refusing to discuss, when I pressed that issue

[Ramcius]

What god damn sadists split these games up anyway. I expected anime and fun vibes a la the Waifu game or the anime upick. Instead we have FL and humorless Ramcius picking apart semantics while all other slots are afk.
This is such fucking garbage.

I agree, people pushing lurk slots to wasy miselims are a sign of garbage game. I'm sorrt that your sense of humour isn't on the par with mine, not everyone can have superior one, some need to have inferior too

[Ramcius]

I thought about it and I'm pretty sure I like ramcius's posting today a lot more than yesterday, though, which makes misty's position kind of strange. I can't remember if misty was expressing suspicion of ramcius yesterday or not and I can't be assed to check but I can't really remember them doing so. I like the thought process behind these ramcius posts even if I don't agree with the conclusions. Don't think I'm all that interested in pushing there rn.

Mistyx entertained idea to vote me, but never get through with it

[Ramcius]

I'll ask very simple question - why Akarin is a scum?

[Ramcius]

I'll ask very simple question - why Akarin is a scum?

I'm telling you, i do not have the answer.
I voted them for reaction testing and because they were the wagon yesterday.

Did you expect a 5 page case? Get outta here.

I'm asking, cause you were painting me and Akarin as scumbuddies, you even tried to threaten me, when you said it would look bad on me, if Akarin flips scum. And now you say you have no read on Akarin and it is me, who is bad here?

[Ramcius]

It's a theory, because i'm trying to understand why you would vote for no good reason other than voting Akarin. When you yourself didn't even townread them that much.

I'm voting you for insisting to keep your vote on Akarin despite admitting that it was just a bad reaction test. Also I disliked our interaction from D1. Nah, I have pretty strong TR on Akarin

[Ramcius]

Ramcius what would your reads be in comparison if i flip town and you have to catch at least one scum by the end of D3?

Stop trying to intimidate me. To clarify for people, who will surely wouldn't pick up - telling me that I would have to find scum D3 is an attempt to put a pressure on me by saying that I wouldn't have a room for an error D3 and I should look elsewhere now

To answer your question, I will think about it D3, assuming I won't eat a bullet tonight

[Ramcius]

My advice would be to try engage lurkers, if you want something from them. Wagoning disinterested people rarely brings anything useful and just pushes them from the game even more

[Ramcius]

My advice would be to try engage lurkers, if you want something from them. Wagoning disinterested people rarely brings anything useful and just pushes them from the game even more

This is what i've been doing, but you and FL are distracting me from doing it effectively.

Yes, I saw what you were doing and as I said, wagoning lurkers isn't the way to sort people

[Ramcius]

To answer your question, I will think about it D3, assuming I won't eat a bullet tonight

I don't care about what you will do D3 if you do it D3.
I want to know what you would do right now, because i'm trying to solve you and i need to know if you actually give a shit about the game beyond flipping me.

Give me a sec, I'll just pull out my crystal ball and divine what will happen in this game in future and then I will tell you what actions I will take based on these events that will happen

[Ramcius]

Ok so i've been talking it out with my teammates on Discord. And i realize that i should probably try to cut down on the excessive emotional reactions.
So i'll only say that i'm serioiusly disappointed that out of all the scummy slots in this game i am the one with the most votes right now.
But then again, if you are uninformed then me reacting excessively will not impress so i'll try to cut it out and focus purely on game related matters from now on.

If you're so disappointed, why you not try to shift focus to these scummy slots instead?

[Ramcius]

Slots i am not interested in yeeting today.

Mistyx/Iconeum/TheGoldenParadox/Nancy Drew 39/thestatusquo

Slot i will be interested in yeeting today:
Flavor Leaf - Their push on me could possibly be to save a partner or it's opportunistic. There is also another reason they could be scum but i won't share that just yet.
Pine - Underwhelming slot.
Ramcius - Their push on me feels bad faith. TSQ can call it solving, i don't really think that is what they are doing.
Dr Easy Bake - Probably not a very good elimination since they have barely any content, but that is also precisely why this slot is problematic.
Akarin - Still an really underwhelming slot.

So, your PoE is lurkers and OMGUS on me and FL. This is exactly why I'm voting you, you aren't doing anything this game to actually solve anything, you aren't taking any meaningful stances, you aren't making any real pushes

[Ramcius]

You know, Ramcius delusional push might just be so out of this world that it’s more likely town because of how completely outlandish it is.
They claim i’m not pushing or solving when you just have to look at my ISO in 2 seconds to see how that’s just not true.

*Norwe's attempt to pocket Ramcius with a townread was unsuccessful*

[Ramcius]

Where my buddy TSQ gone? He was so active D1, yet now nothing from him

[Ramcius]

Slots i am not interested in yeeting today.

Mistyx/Iconeum/TheGoldenParadox/Nancy Drew 39/thestatusquo

Slot i will be interested in yeeting today:
Flavor Leaf - Their push on me could possibly be to save a partner or it's opportunistic. There is also another reason they could be scum but i won't share that just yet.
Pine - Underwhelming slot.
Ramcius - Their push on me feels bad faith. TSQ can call it solving, i don't really think that is what they are doing.
Dr Easy Bake - Probably not a very good elimination since they have barely any content, but that is also precisely why this slot is problematic.
Akarin - Still an really underwhelming slot.

So, your PoE is lurkers and OMGUS on me and FL. This is exactly why I'm voting you, you aren't doing anything this game to actually solve anything, you aren't taking any meaningful stances, you aren't making any real pushes

i don't see how it's norwee's fault that *literally half this pl* are lurkers?
why aren't you pushing Nancy, who's PoE is currently TGP and me (which is also OMGUS)?

i will fight you over norwee not having meaningfull stances this game, i'm not townreading them lightly here
same for the pushes

**Sweet mother of fastposteds

Gee, why I'm not pushing a slot that has my other strong scumread in their PoE? Also I'm well aware that Nancy's SR on you is biased and as I said D1, I'm not touching that 1v1

Also, it's more than half - 3/5, other 2 are OMGUS, so you think Norwee having 2 OMGUS in his PoE is ok, but Nancy's OMGUS on you is bad?

I'm eager to hear your reason for Norwee's TR

[Ramcius]

What do you mean by setup spec.

Could be a role in the game, pretty dumb thing to fake claim. Pretty NAI. Is there something I'm missing here with the claim?

there's no such thing as 'could' be a role in the game

if you claim a neighbourizer ur gonna neighbourize or die

there's like a 99% chance the claim is real, and if we don't have confirmation that TGP has in fact neighbourized he dies at a certain point

but do you think a neighbourizer claim is town or scum!indicative? Members of my team are urging me it's scum!indicative and i'm not convinced. And given the power flavour so far, yeah

He can have a scumbudy to pretend to be in his hood, so it can be easy fakeclaim, on top of that, it's 1-shot, so no risk later on

[Ramcius]

I assume you’re referring to TGP. I’m still undecided on him other than his progression on me is still concerning. I’m starting to like Ico a lot more today.

So perhaps while I still maintain his vote on me was dumb, I’m thinking his progression on me today looks pretty townie.

Tbh, I'm not paying much attention to your slot, but if Ico points it out, I will answer. It just baffled me a bit that he missed my early D2 push on TGP, so he would know that I'm more inclined to TR you for scumread on TGP, even if it's only in Ico's mind

[Ramcius]

UNVOTE:

realistically i think we can probably just kill pine/DEB/Akarin all in a row if they dont improve or get replaced and be ~fine

Realistically we can have a decent flip and get ton of associations, decent wagon to analyse and not be in square one on D3, but sure, let's flip another lurker and hope for the best, because that always works

[Ramcius]

UNVOTE:

realistically i think we can probably just kill pine/DEB/Akarin all in a row if they dont improve or get replaced and be ~fine

Realistically we can have a decent flip and get ton of associations, decent wagon to analyse and not be in square one on D3, but sure, let's flip another lurker and hope for the best, because that always works

i dont want slots with this low content at lylo

But that includes you, tbh

[Ramcius]

I assume you’re referring to TGP. I’m still undecided on him other than his progression on me is still concerning. I’m starting to like Ico a lot more today.

So perhaps while I still maintain his vote on me was dumb, I’m thinking his progression on me today looks pretty townie.

Tbh, I'm not paying much attention to your slot, but if Ico points it out, I will answer. It just baffled me a bit that he missed my early D2 push on TGP, so he would know that I'm more inclined to TR you for scumread on TGP, even if it's only in Ico's mind

Can you elaborate more on your TGP sr - I obviously mean more than you already have - if possible? I do think the posts attempting to flatter me, then chastise me for obvtowning were strange. I also don’t think that Ico should have discredited me for that either but it looks like he is genuinely trying to sort me today, not do another pointless 1v1.

He doesn't really feel genuine

[Ramcius]

hmm

probably worth noting that i dont think akarin is with any of TSQ/TGP/Ramicus

i dont think ramicus was that towny D1, he had a pretty narrow focus that i think scum could easily fake in this gamestate

I think Ram is town. I probably have the most familiarity playing with him.

Nah, FL def have more, oh, those 1v1's we had in past

[Ramcius]

i'm like 80% sure I have a hydra in some fashion with Ramcius, but I could be wrong

3 musketeers, you, me, Nero and Rooster I think

[Ramcius]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78060&user_select%5B%5D=28978

Ram towngame

@Ram, I couldn’t find your scumgame. Can you link it? Thanks.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76181

that game is almost three years old though

I know, I wish I rolled scum more often too, but mods disagree and only give me green rolecards. In other words, that's my only scumgame on this site

[Ramcius]

i'm like 80% sure I have a hydra in some fashion with Ramcius, but I could be wrong

3 musketeers, you, me, Nero and Rooster I think

Rooster?

That guy posted like once in main thread and twice in hydra chat, we got shot N1 tho

[Ramcius]

i'm like 80% sure I have a hydra in some fashion with Ramcius, but I could be wrong

3 musketeers, you, me, Nero and Rooster I think

Rooster?

yeah, the 4 of us were the 3 musketeers hydra

No I’m asking who that is. Rosterfoster?

Yes

[Ramcius]

ok @ everyone

can we just focus on the slots that are literally not doing anything right now? We have a TON of content on the active slots, there's plenty of opinions and it's clearly not developping much further. Do we really wanna go into Day 3 with someone like DEB who is ONLY shitposting/ignoring this game?

If we have so much info, why we aren't flipping scum and we're just going to policy a lurker? Also, I'm waiting for your promised fight too, and answers, like, why Norwee OMGUSing 2 people is fine, but Nancy's OMGUS on you was bad

[Ramcius]

In hindsight, Molla demanding for details of Zor's JOAT was kinda softing that he's a JOAT too, so his kill doesn't look so out of place any more

[Ramcius]

Wake me up, when this day is over

[Ramcius]

I mean, he claimed 1-shot, did he changed that claim at some point that you guys expect him to use it more?

[Ramcius]

Hoods are useless for town, but it's a great tool for scum to pocket people

[Ramcius]

Hence why it (anecdotally) feels like every notable neighborhood is scum-motivated.

Except that one,

right, Penguin

? Wrecked ‘em.

Fogport?

[Ramcius]

If you’re going to act scummy on purpose and then get mad when scumread it’s pretty hypocritical of you be blaming me for your shit reads.

nah, you're just a baby with pressure

This isn’t a reason to scumread me. In fact, if you know someone acts like a baby with pressure then the optimal play is to leave them alone and sort them by other means. Which you aren’t doing, and why this push is opportunistic coming from you.

Flipping someone is best way to sort them

[Ramcius]

I think your flip is most important to understanding what is happening this game.

+1

[Ramcius]

Keep in mind that if i'm flipped today, nobody should ever respect anything Pine/Ramcius/FL has to say for the remainder of the game.
FL's townread on Pine is likely wrong. Pine's read on the gamestate is wrong. Ramcius is wrong and should be ostracized for not even attempting to solve slots.
It's not likely all 3 of them are scum, but don't expect them to have good reads even if town.

If your scumread flips green, we should ignore everything you say too for the rest of the game?

I'm trying to solve, I'm trying to flip my scumread and get a decent VCA regardless of your flip + associations. If you have any other suggestions for efficient way to sort out slots, I'm willing to hear you out

[Ramcius]

Creature says TSQ is town for calling FL an asshole

[Ramcius]

I will not be voting in Pine, Nancy, Ramcius, Ico, DEB and I don't really want Akarin. Who's that leave?

Norwegian
Status
TGP

yeah, that means one of my town reads are probably wrong, but i don't 100% know where

Mistyx?

[Ramcius]

The one thing I don’t understand is why Norwee isn’t hard tr Ram because he’s extremely obvious town here.

I can go over Ramcius's ISO to see if he's as obvious town as you claim.
My main problem is that i've found their takes incredibly lazy so far, and they don't seem to do much. It's like a real Dunnstral kind of style that i always have a problem with.

And that comes from a guy, who's game plan is elim lurkers and OMGUS. Also, you refuse answering questions that you don't like, so maybe look in the mirror first before opening your mouth

[Ramcius]

The one thing I don’t understand is why Norwee isn’t hard tr Ram because he’s extremely obvious town here.

I can go over Ramcius's ISO to see if he's as obvious town as you claim.
My main problem is that i've found their takes incredibly lazy so far, and they don't seem to do much. It's like a real Dunnstral kind of style that i always have a problem with.

And that comes from a guy, who's game plan is elim lurkers and OMGUS. Also, you refuse answering questions that you don't like, so maybe look in the mirror first before opening your mouth

Cry me a river.

Isn't that what you are doing whole D2?

[Ramcius]

That's just even more points towards Norwee/TGP team. Just for the record, if anyone thinks that I would let Akarin go and TR her at the start of D2 as a scum, you're funny, really

[Ramcius]

VOTE: TGP

Red flip pretty much shows Norwee is buddy, so I'm fine with this today

[Ramcius]

there's a potential world where scum!norwee has me pocketed, and scum!TGP hooded me and are using me to kill off FL

but then I would expect scum!TGP to be more active towards that in the hood, which isn't the case

You literally said it was scummy that TGP wasn't interacting with you, when his intention to hood you was to sort your slot, now you say it's not pointing towards scum!TGP?

[Ramcius]

So, question is: Do FL steal hammer again or DEB gets it this time?

[Ramcius]

it's pretty scummy that he isn't using the hood, but if he were scum and pushing FL (with norwee in my example) i would fully expect scum!TGP to be working me over a lot harder to support his FL push

So, you want flip TGP despite the fact that you think it's more likely he's town?

[Ramcius]

Indeed, I thought he was E-2 already

[Ramcius]

it's interesting that none of norwee/pine/fl actually wanna push TGP here

what do you make of that, Nancy/ram?

I literally changed my voted from Norwee to TGP, when Norwee refused to consider TGP elim despite finding him scummy, I mean, it doesn't matter which scum to flip, if you believe that both TGP and Pine are scum, red flip only gives more credibility to your other read and going for easier to elim instead of blindly forcing something that no one supports is anti-town at the very least

Pine and FL too much emotionally invested in Norwee scumread to change their vote I guess, also TGP not showing here might be a reason too - "out of the eyes, out of the mind" as we say here

[Ramcius]

Are you saying that only one of them is scum and not both? Because if you think both of them are scum, then flipping one would help you to convince people that other is scum too

[Ramcius]

The next flip after TGP should be Pine, and if Ramcius defends Pine and angles for my elimination tommorow. He should be flipped too.
But always Pine first.

I repeat, the path to victory here with a TGP scumflip is -> Pine. And if Pine flips scum take another look at Ramcius because he's been one of the biggest supporters of FL and Pine's push on me. And if FL is town then it can only be Ramcius. No matter how town Nancy thinks he is.

My push on you has nothing to do with FL's or Pine's, you know it, I pushed you before FL did. If TGP flips red, I will gun for your head D3, I literally said that's my reason to even vote TGP now over you

[Ramcius]

I killed DEB

Now that's surprising as my TR on you was based on my idea that your speculation of flavor and roles connection pointed towards that you have no ability, hence I thought you were slipped VT

Also, why the hell scum shot Ico? Did they remembered my wish from D1? I was going to cast my vote there, Creature had same opinion - he wanted to yeet Ico, so who I should vote now? Norwee is off the table for now, Cakez said that lurker Norwee is scum Norwee. And before any question, he isn't reading this game and he said that during our N2 brief discussion

[Ramcius]

DEB is that kinda slot that's impossible to sort unless you flip em.

Yeah, I debated killing Pine or Misty, but DEB is really the slot that, even though I didn't have a scum read, I thought would make the game most solvable. It was also weirding me and Dunn out that no one had voted for DEB other than Ico off mostly a joke.

I've been trying to come up with a way to crumb this, but was worried about being cc'd, so figured I'd just claim it outright.

Glad you didn’t kill Misty, I’m pretty sure she’s town.

Unfortunately DEB really didn’t leave any associatives. Why did TGP make that last post?

Well good job because DEB wasn’t in my PoE.

I don’t know what to think rn. Well, glad you obvtowned.

Still am confident on Ram!Town, Misty!Town and obviously confitown Akarin. I think TGP wagon probably was all town.

Sorry @TGP.

Why Mistyx is town?

[Ramcius]

so who I should vote now?n

I don't think this is going to come as a big surprise to you. But i still think Pine is a decent lim.
Akarin should now forever be off the table as far as i'm concerned.
I think you not voting me today based on what Cakez told you is pretty townie actually. I might have been wrong in scumreading you, we'll see.
It's probably never Nancy. I'm leaning decently town on TSQ by their tone. (Though my team thinks TSQ has mostly been null-ish)
I'm fairly sure Pine is going to be my vote today and then i'll take things from there depending on what happens.

Well, you looked a lot like biased townie D2 too, so Cakez was just pushing it over the line

[Ramcius]

Ram/Pine would probably be my first two kills

I’m wondering if we should massclaim today

Why you scumreading me? I asked you back in D1, when you expressed your intent to join my wagon, but I didn't get a response from you back then, so it's still sr from D1 or you have more to it?

[Ramcius]

My flavour name is DOMOKUN. Member of the anime empire.
Only power is my vote.

Popcorn to --> Pine

From which anime is DOMOKUN?

[Ramcius]

Molla was voting Pine and Ico was the most sus on him but I don’t know how much we glean from that. I’d say Ico kill looks probably the worst for Pine. Math told me that FL!scum would kill me. Math wants me to push FL but I don’t know. Obviously TGP thought that too.

I really thought either you or Ico were the obvious kills, kind of think the question is just what teams would have killed Ico over you or vice versa.

I'm sad that my 180 on you didn't looked like Inno check soft to you

[Ramcius]

I'm sad that my 180 on you didn't looked like Inno check soft to you

I mean it did a little bit, but why the hell would I ever say that?

Well, now is D3, I'm alive, so scum didn't believed that one bit anyway

[Ramcius]

I'm sad that my 180 on you didn't looked like Inno check soft to you

I mean it did a little bit, but why the hell would I ever say that?

Well, now is D3, I'm alive, so scum didn't believed that one bit anyway

So, Zor/molla flipped town joats. Akarin 1 shot novice vig and apparently you’re some kind of invest.

No, I'm not, but my TR on Akarin should've looked like I'm some sort of invest with Inno on her, therefore Ico's kill is even weirder to me, if they killed Molla for that crumb

[Ramcius]

I did little bit of Nancy's ISO and she was hard pushing TGP/Akarin D2, also I found this gem among other similar posts

Nah Pine, Norwee Town

DEB is very obviously town here.

It really rubs me wrong way how she was saying that DEB was town on several occasions

[Ramcius]

Fine, but you better claim something big, Pine. I'm VT, flavor is SAN-CHAN, picture is Penguin 3 from Penguin Drum

[Ramcius]

This is maybe the most interesting part of DEB's ISO, more for the game around it.

Mystyx, Norwee, Nancy

Norwee and Nancy jump on DEB for this, they actually both vote him.

Misty makes this post

reserving judgement on DEB for the time being

TSQ, can you walk me through why your read on Ramicus today outweighs the push you had on him yesterday?

Pine announces he's starting fresh as a replacement, FL makes this post

I like DEB's list except for the Nancy one, but he was voting Nancy day 1 too

DEB then says that's his town block, Nancy and Norwee back off, Norwee townreads Nancy for her reaction.

I'm not really sure what to make about this section of the game, but it's fascinating.

Fundamentally I just don't think Nancy or Norwee jump on DEB like that, and then back off so easily if they're scum with him. I'm pretty happy townblocking both of them off that (I was townreading both of them anyway though.)

@Ram, why are you ignoring this?

I'm not, I just don't think this is AI. If your read on me is based on my read on your slot, then I don't need your TR. Also Creature said that you need more pressure, I guess he played more with you than I did, so I feel like doing so given I have no leads right now

[Ramcius]

hmm...

ramcius, what do you think? Can Norwegian and Pine both be town?

Norwee feels like biased townie that's easy to miselim, but Creature thinks he's scum team with TSQ, I can see that, Pine I dunno, a lot of stuff makes sense, claim is strange

Also Creature says that Mistyx is bad elim today, 4v2 is better and I agree, 2/5 is better odds than 2/7 to hit scum. Also he says that it's bad kill for scum too, so doc there is bad idea

@Nancy, Creature said Heroes game. Also it wasn't 180, I don't think I said you are my TR, on top of that, I was hard sr you in LNT, our only game, so why me not seeing as obv town surprises you, when I ignored everyone calling you obv town in that game?

VOTE: TSQ

I just don't like how he fell of the picture after D1, also fencesitting on me D2 don't sit well with me "Ram is towny now, but shade..."

[Ramcius]

You're joking right? I made a huge case yesterday and pushed the crap out of it while making like 3 or 4 different ISO dives. What in the hell.

You mean meta case on Akarin that you held onto despite Nancy telling you're wrong and Akarin obvtowning? Yes, I said that you called me towny, but also you brought up "shade" from D1 at the same time. Also, why you so concerned about my vote and not about anything I said regarding to Mystix matters

[Ramcius]

Even if Pine is a scum, we can use him. We can limit night kill by scum tonight. Mistyx isn't a kill and we can remove 2 more, so scum must choose from Pine, FL and 2 more targets we want which helps our D4 PoE

[Ramcius]

It's obvious that scum will just shoot in one of Akarin/Nancy/MistyX so what are you talking about?

They won't kill Mistyx, they won't give us a vig shot for free, when we are willing to elim her, Akarin is being protected by FL or Pine. If she dies, we look at whichever was supposed to protect her and flip their ass. Nancy can be considered as other protect target. If scum won't kill Pine/FL, then they will shoot in a pool of 2 targets that we leave for them - you/me/TSQ, but one of us 3 gets elimed too

[Ramcius]

Akarin is being protected by FL or Pine.

Sorry to bring you this harshly onto the real world but FL / Pine are likely just scum. Does your solve take this possibility into account?

If they want to expose themselves by killing target they have to protect and die next day, I'm fine with it

[Ramcius]

So what is your contingency plan, if you wrong? Also, you getting shot isn't the worst outcome, tbh

[Ramcius]

Here's the list of all slots if we assume every claim is real. (With flipped slots)

Mistyx - PR
TheGoldenParadox12 - PR
Flavor Leaf - PR
Pine123 - PR
zoraster1 - PR
BBMolla - PR
Akarin12 - PR

Dr Easy Bake1 - Mafia

thestatusquo - VT
Ramcius - VT
NorwegianboyEE - VT
Nancy Drew 39 - VT
Iconeum - VT

Seems legit am i right? Perfectly balanced as all things should be with 7 PR's vs scum that are all in VT pile according to you Ramcius? Or what?

So, you telling me there's 5 VTs in this game and no scum in VT pool? See, I can make bs speculations too, I asked what is your plan, if you wrong on Pine? I never said I believe FL and Pine's claims, my plan is based on the fact that scum must act as their claim is real, if they are scum and kill one of you/me/TSQ. As you see I'm voting TSQ, so it would leave just you or me as a target for a kill, which is perfectly fine with me. If they choose someone else and expose Pine/FL, then we will have something to work with D4

[Ramcius]

It's obvious that scum will just shoot in one of Akarin/Nancy/MistyX so what are you talking about?

They won't kill Mistyx, they won't give us a vig shot for free, when we are willing to elim her, Akarin is being protected by FL or Pine. If she dies, we look at whichever was supposed to protect her and flip their ass. Nancy can be considered as other protect target. If scum won't kill Pine/FL, then they will shoot in a pool of 2 targets that we leave for them - you/me/TSQ, but one of us 3 gets elimed too

No Misty #1 and Akarin #2 should always be the protect targets. Wtf are you even thinking here?

If scum want to kill Mistyx and give us free vig shot, then I'm game. Why would they shoot someone that we are willing to miselim ourselves?

[Ramcius]

It's obvious that scum will just shoot in one of Akarin/Nancy/MistyX so what are you talking about?

They won't kill Mistyx, they won't give us a vig shot for free, when we are willing to elim her, Akarin is being protected by FL or Pine. If she dies, we look at whichever was supposed to protect her and flip their ass. Nancy can be considered as other protect target. If scum won't kill Pine/FL, then they will shoot in a pool of 2 targets that we leave for them - you/me/TSQ, but one of us 3 gets elimed too

No Misty #1 and Akarin #2 should always be the protect targets. Wtf are you even thinking here?

If scum want to kill Mistyx and give us free vig shot, then I'm game. Why would they shoot someone that we are willing to miselim ourselves?

Why are you assuming Misty would miselim and since you’ve even admitted you’re incapable of correctly reading me for shit, why would you even want to save me?

I don't, Norwee wanted, I have no preference on the second person who get protection. Also, Creature says your play here reminds him Heroes game, what can you say about that?

[Ramcius]

It's obvious that scum will just shoot in one of Akarin/Nancy/MistyX so what are you talking about?

They won't kill Mistyx, they won't give us a vig shot for free, when we are willing to elim her, Akarin is being protected by FL or Pine. If she dies, we look at whichever was supposed to protect her and flip their ass. Nancy can be considered as other protect target. If scum won't kill Pine/FL, then they will shoot in a pool of 2 targets that we leave for them - you/me/TSQ, but one of us 3 gets elimed too

No Misty #1 and Akarin #2 should always be the protect targets. Wtf are you even thinking here?

If scum want to kill Mistyx and give us free vig shot, then I'm game. Why would they shoot someone that we are willing to miselim ourselves?

Why are you assuming Misty would miselim and since you’ve even admitted you’re incapable of correctly reading me for shit, why would you even want to save me?

You realize that Misty doesn’t even have to use her venge if we never miselim her right? Basically it’s like this, scum isn’t going to push Misty but that doesn’t mean they aren’t stupid enough to push me. They obviously can’t push confitown!Akarin and they aren’t going to push town venge, which is why scum’s #1 kill target is Misty followed by Akarin. I may be bleeding obvtown to anyone above average reading comprehension but I’m neither confirmed like Akarin nor a clear threat like Misty. It maybe braindead dumb to push me but I’m still more pushable than either of those two.

Mistyx is an elim in ExLo, I'm not worried about that slot being scum. Even numbers benefit scum, it's harder to elim someone and elim scum is always harder than elim town, Mistyx kill will turn numbers odd again and would remove sketchy slot as a free vig shot to help town's PoE, so if scum want to help us, I'm happy to take that.

I have no idea what happened between you two in Heroes game, that's what Creature said to me on discord

[Ramcius]

Well I have absolutely no clue how he thinks I’m playing anything here like in that game and it makes me very suspicious that my initial tr on you may be wrong because I really don’t like how you’re shading me here. I hard defended you yesterday and why you think I’d bother doing that as scum, I can’t even imagine.

Creature has only this wrongly misread me before when I hydra’d with FL in Surprise, so it should come as no shock to either of you why I’m seriously questioning my initial tr on you.

To pocket me, why else scum defend townies? Given I have a history to scumread you, pocketing me with a TR is a reasonable idea, but we can talk that after game ends, I have no interest in pushing you, nor I would expect anyone to vote you anyway

But I have a question to you about FL since you know him much better - wouldn't he be more proactive in gamesolving as a town than he is doing here? I mean, he complains a lot how much he don't care about this game and such, but in experience we had quite fierce fights due having different ideas of gamesolving

[Ramcius]

@Ramcius - i am still like one of the highest posters in this game, i have been playing, and i have actively stated what i believe the scum team to be in, so idk what part of “isn’t solving” you are pushing

I feel like you more concerned to be townread than solving this game, which is kinda opposite of what I expect from town you

[Ramcius]

VOTE: Norwee

I guess TSQ isn't happening and Norwee is my other PoE pick based on my earlier plan

[Ramcius]

I like your attempt to turn me against FL, but nah, I'm good with my vote on you

[Ramcius]

Whichever of FL/Ramcius is Pine’s teammate here will fight very hard for my elimination. As they know that if their scum teammate Pine is eliminated today it will give town room to miseliminate in one of -> Ramcius/FL which most certainly will be the conondrum after Pine flips scum. But if the elimination is Norwee (town) -> Pine (scum) -> Ramcius/FL it will give whichever of the two are scum leverage to betray the other and endgame in Elo.

Fixed*

You can push any of us 3, if you think that you're right, it changes nothing, if town flip us 3 and both scum are there. Therefore logically you want me go first, I'm a VT claim, while Pine/FL can ruin scum kill, if they're town, but you aiming for strongest claim, are you afraid of him?

[Ramcius]

And if you're going to say that jk is powerful role and we should get rid of it, I will remind you that only PR that left with anything to do is FL, which is your scumread. Therefore if you think I'm scum with Pine and FL is town, then Pine can't rb FL, cause then there is no one to kill, I really doubt there's multitask in this game for scum

[Ramcius]

I'm not voting Pine for last year setup speculation

[Ramcius]

Wouldn't be first time I see town fakeclaim

[Ramcius]

Hey Ram, could you give me your reasoning for why you think it's Norwee?

And do you disagree with me that DEB interactions actually make Norwee look townier?

Also do you seriously have a strong townread on Pine or is this all related to your plan of using the JK as a cop?

It's either Norwee or TSQ based on my previous PoE

He's nowhere close to obv town status and one towny interaction in a pool of bad takes, terrible AtE and bad pushes isn't enough for me

Pine isn't strong townread, but I believe he's better than claiming jk like that as scum, especially going last. Either way my plan for today is to reduce PoE pool as much as possible and try to force scum to make a kill that isn't convenient to them. FL on other hand is capable of claiming anything as any alignment, so I'm not putting much stock in his claim, neither I'm going to discuss his claim, cause it's just massive WIFOM that would just clog thread without anything useful

[Ramcius]

Why TSQ is town? Not scummy or towny, but what makes him town in this game?

I literally explained that I want keep Pine and FL around for their claims, even if they scum, they have to pretend and they are protective and can't kill their targets of protection, that's the whole point of my plan that I explained several times already. We still have 1 miselim left, so I'd rather use it to reduce pool of nulish slots while I still can rather than take hail Marry gamble and wake up to ExLo with no real idea who is scum like it was for all 3 day phases so far

[Ramcius]

Why TSQ is town? Not scummy or towny, but what makes him town in this game?

Literally nothing he’s said makes me think he could be scum. And add on to the fact that there are a lot scummier slots than him. I’d rather respect the fact that his playstyle is very townie and not looking faked than assume some extremely scummy slots are town for their shitty claims.

So, he's null as nothing he did makes him town in your eyes from what you just said

[Ramcius]

Why TSQ is town? Not scummy or towny, but what makes him town in this game?

I literally explained that I want keep Pine and FL around for their claims, even if they scum, they have to pretend and they are protective and can't kill their targets of protection, that's the whole point of my plan that I explained several times already. We still have 1 miselim left, so I'd rather use it to reduce pool of nulish slots while I still can rather than take hail Marry gamble and wake up to ExLo with no real idea who is scum like it was for all 3 day phases so far

Well FL agreed to protect Misty but Pine refused to jk Akarin.

I'm really reaching my limits with this game

[Ramcius]

Why TSQ is town? Not scummy or towny, but what makes him town in this game?

I literally explained that I want keep Pine and FL around for their claims, even if they scum, they have to pretend and they are protective and can't kill their targets of protection, that's the whole point of my plan that I explained several times already. We still have 1 miselim left, so I'd rather use it to reduce pool of nulish slots while I still can rather than take hail Marry gamble and wake up to ExLo with no real idea who is scum like it was for all 3 day phases so far

Well FL agreed to protect Misty but Pine refused to jk Akarin.

I'm really reaching my limits with this game

We’re all frustrated. I wish Ico could be here instead of me. :/

No no no

[Ramcius]

Why TSQ is town? Not scummy or towny, but what makes him town in this game?

I literally explained that I want keep Pine and FL around for their claims, even if they scum, they have to pretend and they are protective and can't kill their targets of protection, that's the whole point of my plan that I explained several times already. We still have 1 miselim left, so I'd rather use it to reduce pool of nulish slots while I still can rather than take hail Marry gamble and wake up to ExLo with no real idea who is scum like it was for all 3 day phases so far

Well FL agreed to protect Misty but Pine refused to jk Akarin.

I'm really reaching my limits with this game

We’re all frustrated. I wish Ico could be here instead of me. :/

No no no

???

What? I'm happy that Ico isn't here

[Ramcius]

And this just gives FL more time to spam 50 pages of garbage.

You're not far off from him yourself in spamming and making several posts in a row, so from all the people, you have least right to complain

[Ramcius]

I can't give this a lot of thought until later tonight, but it's not like the BIGGEST deal.

Just I think I'm dead tonight and wanted to get my thoughts out there and look at other options in case I'm dead and it's not Pine-FL.

We only have the one miselim left.

Btw, Ram, that's sort of my problem with your plan, I think FL-Pine is the most likely scumteam at the moment and even if they aren't, I really have a lot of trouble with eliminating outside them, whoever it is flips town, and then after any kill we want to vote one or the other if today's outside-that-pair elim flips town.

Like I just don't see that the plan gains us anything.

Vote Pine, if you so confident. I'm not confident at all in them being scum pair

[Ramcius]

And this just gives FL more time to spam 50 pages of garbage.

You're not far off from him yourself in spamming and making several posts in a row, so from all the people, you have least right to complain

My posts are of much better quality.

Nah, both of you suck at posting

[Ramcius]

You think so? I feel like we will have TSQ as consensus flip

[Ramcius]

Wait i thought you said TGP. My bad.

Why TSQ?

Why not? You have him as null, I don't think others have strong feelings towards him either, so perfect consensus flip

Speaking of TGP, you literally hammered him after some posturing, so again, you have no right to complain

[Ramcius]

Like honestly the only position ramcius has had basically all game is OMGUS that I am scum with basically no reasoning whatsoever that its really making me doubt that he cares who the scum is. Who is my buddy if I'm scum? Why do I make sense as a partner with DEB? What scummy things have I done? Why are the town reads on me by other players in this game incorrect? Your primary argument right now seems to be that I'm a townie null lean for a bunch of people so therefore I should be eliminated?

That doesn't make me think you're town, bud. It's like you latched on to a weird OMGUS read day 1 and haven't reevaluated or tried to find any other scum once the whole game.

You haven't done anything to make me reevaluate. Your D2 was just bare minimum - 1 case no one really cared and reading several ISOs. What have you done D3 so far?

Also, you can paint it as OMGUS all you want, but you never tried to engage me D1, only demanded me to provide some commentary, you never tried to actually push me despite having strong sr, you never gave answer on what was Cheetory's thoughts on my slot after you said that he think I would vote you there as a scum, you didn't even said that he didn't read game or refused to comment or anything, you flat out refused to say anything. You bragged about your contribution that I couldn't see and you never pointed me out either. Your fencesitting on Zor was disgusting, same thing D2 on my slot

reserving judgement on DEB for the time being

TSQ, can you walk me through why your read on Ramicus today outweighs the push you had on him yesterday?

Because the entirety of my push yesterday was based on two things:

1) Ramcius not taking actions that I thought were indicative of a player trying to sort other slots.
2) Ramcius misrepping me in the course of me pushing him for the former.

The second thing is still there and I haven't thrown it away; I'm not lock reading the slot or anything. But the push I've seen today from his has looked like a player trying to sort slots to me, so I'm much less interested in pushing in that direction, because I think Akarin and pine are much more interesting directions to go.

Speaking of which
VOTE: pine

You were leaning more towards town on me, yet you clearly were keeping me in your sights for "misrep"

[Ramcius]

Also, can't help but notice you're jumping on me and norwee right when I try to steer the discussion back to pine.

I can't help but notice looking at your ISO right now that you only mention DEB like 3 total times before he flipped and every single one of those times is you going "hmmm I wonder if DEB will hammer."

I dunno what game you're reading, but I was pushing Norwee for most of D2, I said that you and Norwee are my PoE for D3 at the start of the day and I was voting you until recently, when changed back to Norwee, because no one has interest in your wagon, so what jumping on you and Norwee you even talking about?

Well, I value my time and I saw no reason to talk about hard lurker, who wasn't doing anything relevant, when I had other people to push, like Akarin D1 or Norwee D2

[Ramcius]

Only Mistyx death, no elim or failed scum kill can turn this from even number to odd, so Mistyx elim works in 4v2 or 3v1 too, outcome would be 2v1 or victory, ofc assuming scum kill with venge. Scum kill Mistyx is just giving us a free vig shot and turning this game to odd, they need 2 miselim either way, with Mistyx kill or not and even number is better for scum in ExLo, more miselim targets

[Ramcius]

I have a question, do strongman go through commute?

[Ramcius]

See, thing is, if commute protects from strongman, we left with only 2 doc shots, so whole setup spec against you falls apart

[Ramcius]

Spoiler:

Votecount 2.13

Akarin(4)

~ thestatusquo(73), Mistyx(65), Nancy Drew 39(197), Iconeum(186)

NorwegianboyEE(3)

~ Flavor Leaf(325), Ramcius(58), Pine(52)

Flavor Leaf(1)

~ NorwegianboyEE(217)


Not Voting (3): TheGoldenParadox(13), Dr Easy Bake(10), Akarin(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• Iconeum on weekend v/la

Votecount 2.14

TheGoldenParadox(3)

~ Nancy Drew 39(257), Akarin(49), Ramcius(63)

Akarin(3)

~ thestatusquo(88), Mistyx(68), Iconeum(186)

NorwegianboyEE(2)

~ Flavor Leaf(407), Pine(52)

Pine(1)

~ NorwegianboyEE(277)


Not Voting (2): TheGoldenParadox(13), Dr Easy Bake(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• Iconeum on weekend v/la
  
• Prodding TheGoldenParadox

Votecount 2.17 - Final

TheGoldenParadox(6)

~ Nancy Drew 39(286), Akarin(49), Ramcius(70), Iconeum(223), Mistyx(71), NorwegianboyEE(318)

-- HAMMER

NorwegianboyEE(2)

~ Flavor Leaf(420), Pine(56)

Flavor Leaf(1)

~ TheGoldenParadox(17)

Akarin(1)

~ thestatusquo(90)


Not Voting (1): Dr Easy Bake(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• That's it for Day 2!

okay i got some from titus about yesterday's VCA

she thinks DEB not voting is indicative of the wagons being TvT, and thinks scum are probably sheeping there

and thinks that Ram following nancy fills that idea

Tell her to actually read the game before coming with ridiculous VCA theories, me sheeping Nancy on TGP make me laugh really hard

[Ramcius]

Norwee, simple question - why scum have 1-shot strongman, if town has only 1 JOAT with doc and commute?

[Ramcius]

Spoiler:

Votecount 2.13

Akarin(4)

~ thestatusquo(73), Mistyx(65), Nancy Drew 39(197), Iconeum(186)

NorwegianboyEE(3)

~ Flavor Leaf(325), Ramcius(58), Pine(52)

Flavor Leaf(1)

~ NorwegianboyEE(217)


Not Voting (3): TheGoldenParadox(13), Dr Easy Bake(10), Akarin(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• Iconeum on weekend v/la

Votecount 2.14

TheGoldenParadox(3)

~ Nancy Drew 39(257), Akarin(49), Ramcius(63)

Akarin(3)

~ thestatusquo(88), Mistyx(68), Iconeum(186)

NorwegianboyEE(2)

~ Flavor Leaf(407), Pine(52)

Pine(1)

~ NorwegianboyEE(277)


Not Voting (2): TheGoldenParadox(13), Dr Easy Bake(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• Iconeum on weekend v/la
  
• Prodding TheGoldenParadox

Votecount 2.17 - Final

TheGoldenParadox(6)

~ Nancy Drew 39(286), Akarin(49), Ramcius(70), Iconeum(223), Mistyx(71), NorwegianboyEE(318)

-- HAMMER

NorwegianboyEE(2)

~ Flavor Leaf(420), Pine(56)

Flavor Leaf(1)

~ TheGoldenParadox(17)

Akarin(1)

~ thestatusquo(90)


Not Voting (1): Dr Easy Bake(12)


Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-12 12:40:00)

Mod Notes

• That's it for Day 2!

okay i got some from titus about yesterday's VCA

she thinks DEB not voting is indicative of the wagons being TvT, and thinks scum are probably sheeping there

and thinks that Ram following nancy fills that idea

Tell her to actually read the game before coming with ridiculous VCA theories, me sheeping Nancy on TGP make me laugh really hard

you jumped on the wagon to

prove that norwee was scum if TGP flipped red?

that seems like scummy following to me tbh

Norwee is a proxy for jjh to tell TGP is town, fails to provide any real argument as to why it's so and we have Ico's suspicion due to hood, Akarin and Nancy votes TGP, after some discussion with Norwee and game stalling I trry toi pursue idea of scum Norwee defending scum TGP and vote there. Now I might see you as susp too, but your slot is sortable at any time, so it can be skipped. Norwee hammers after some posturing, but this doesn't rouse any suspicion? He was against TGP flip, but then he changes his mind without much convincing

[Ramcius]

Norwee, simple question - why scum have 1-shot strongman, if town has only 1 JOAT with doc and commute?

It doesn’t matter if scum has 1-shot strongman. I care about how the setup only includes roles that are gated by number of shots.

Why this isn't dead yet?

[Ramcius]

If I can comfortable rule out Norwee/Pine I am willing to compromise on Shea

Provided that if I die, norwee is treated as an innocent child and Ram is treated as mafia

I don't want to have to hard decide that right now so I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me why my worldbuilding is wrong if it is

what stops you from just killing me on your death?

[Ramcius]

If I can comfortable rule out Norwee/Pine I am willing to compromise on Shea

Provided that if I die, norwee is treated as an innocent child and Ram is treated as mafia

I don't want to have to hard decide that right now so I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me why my worldbuilding is wrong if it is

what stops you from just killing me on your death?

my ability doesnt get triggered if im nightkilled

goddamnit, that makes you a good kill to keep even numbers

[Ramcius]

Norwee I still want your take on Ram

Town until both scum not being in Pine/FL is disproven.

In other words, I'll become scum, when Pine flips green

[Ramcius]

Norwee I still want your take on Ram

Town until both scum not being in Pine/FL is disproven.

In other words, I'll become scum, when Pine flips green

Bit of a silly logic when Pine isn't even flipping green.

That's your opinion against mine, so calling my opinion silly is rude

[Ramcius]

Hm, what do we do with Mystix? Do we flip her and tell to shoot our elim target of today? Cause venge not triggering on kill is a big change

[Ramcius]

Hm, what do we do with Mystix? Do we flip her and tell to shoot our elim target of today? Cause venge not triggering on kill is a big change

Why tf do we need to flip Misty?

Well, there's 3 good targets for scum - you, Mistyx and Akarin, we can protect 2, scum can kill last one instead of shooting elsewhere and helping us with our PoE

[Ramcius]

Hm, what do we do with Mystix? Do we flip her and tell to shoot our elim target of today? Cause venge not triggering on kill is a big change

Why tf do we need to flip Misty?

Well, there's 3 good targets for scum - you, Mistyx and Akarin, we can protect 2, scum can kill last one instead of shooting elsewhere and helping us with our PoE

Pine has never once claimed he would do that though. In fact, he’s made it extremely clear he WON’T do that.

Even so, going to odd numbers is better for town. If scum kills Mystix, we're stuck on even

[Ramcius]

Hot take, it's Nancy and TSQ. I really dislike recent posts of Nancy, where her TR on me vanished

[Ramcius]

Tbh, this "Pine didn't agreed and refuses to follow plan" from Nancy is pinging me really hard. Pine is somewhat reasonable person, so surely there is a chance for negotiation, why take such strict stance?

[Ramcius]

Tbh, this "Pine didn't agreed and refuses to follow plan" from Nancy is pinging me really hard. Pine is somewhat reasonable person, so surely there is a chance for negotiation, why take such strict stance?

Wtf are you even talking about?

Hm, what do we do with Mystix? Do we flip her and tell to shoot our elim target of today? Cause venge not triggering on kill is a big change

Why tf do we need to flip Misty?

Well, there's 3 good targets for scum - you, Mistyx and Akarin, we can protect 2, scum can kill last one instead of shooting elsewhere and helping us with our PoE

Pine has never once claimed he would do that though. In fact, he’s made it extremely clear he WON’T do that.

[Ramcius]

Tbh, this "Pine didn't agreed and refuses to follow plan" from Nancy is pinging me really hard. Pine is somewhat reasonable person, so surely there is a chance for negotiation, why take such strict stance?

Wtf are you even talking about?

Hm, what do we do with Mystix? Do we flip her and tell to shoot our elim target of today? Cause venge not triggering on kill is a big change

Why tf do we need to flip Misty?

Well, there's 3 good targets for scum - you, Mistyx and Akarin, we can protect 2, scum can kill last one instead of shooting elsewhere and helping us with our PoE

Pine has never once claimed he would do that though. In fact, he’s made it extremely clear he WON’T do that.

And how is this inaccurate? Link/find the quotes debunking that.

Issue is that you don't believe that Pine could agree to my plan, yet you aren't suggesting anything else, so you're being destructive, which is scum indicative

[Ramcius]

Tbh, this "Pine didn't agreed and refuses to follow plan" from Nancy is pinging me really hard. Pine is somewhat reasonable person, so surely there is a chance for negotiation, why take such strict stance?

Wtf are you even talking about?

Hm, what do we do with Mystix? Do we flip her and tell to shoot our elim target of today? Cause venge not triggering on kill is a big change

Why tf do we need to flip Misty?

Well, there's 3 good targets for scum - you, Mistyx and Akarin, we can protect 2, scum can kill last one instead of shooting elsewhere and helping us with our PoE

Pine has never once claimed he would do that though. In fact, he’s made it extremely clear he WON’T do that.

And how is this inaccurate? Link/find the quotes debunking that.

Issue is that you don't believe that Pine could agree to my plan, yet you aren't suggesting anything else, so you're being destructive, which is scum indicative

HE HASN’T YET, so you’re essentially shading me for something entirely non-existent.

I'm trying to work something out, but you try to stand in my way, because Pine didn't gave his agreement. Key word is YET. Why you so hung onto that?

If I was scum, I could eat popcorn and watch Pine with Norwee duke it out and take a free win, but no, I had to get green rc and now I have to deal with all this while trying to salvage mess of a game like this

[Ramcius]

Also, Creature said that Heroes is only game where he seen you as a scum, so that's only scum meta he actually have on you

[Ramcius]

For the record, I'm not agreeing to anyone trying to dictate who I protect/block. It's a non-starter for me, and it is in every game I play regardless of alignment. I may or may not tell you, but no one dictates my action. Give a suggestion if you like, but understand that I will take it under advisement only.

You are free to propose your changes to the plan. All I want to do is limit pool where scum can kill to me, you, FL, Norwee and TSQ, that's my pool ofc, you can suggest adjustments. Akarin is locktown, therefore she's a must protect, Mistyx need to be eliminated and shoot someone from PoE pool minus you and FL. This plan is to preserve as much strong townreads and reduce nulish slots

[Ramcius]

I don’t really see Misty needing to be faded here.

scum will kill her, she has no venge on kill, only on elim, also odd number is better than even for us

[Ramcius]

Hm, me and Creature think that best course of action is protect Akarin with Mistyx and flip TSQ

[Ramcius]

Hm, me and Creature think that best course of action is protect Akarin with Mistyx and flip TSQ

They’ve changed their read on Norwee?

We aren't really sure on Norwee, but TSQ getting no pressure for his no presence is a red flag, why scum let him be?

[Ramcius]

Hm, me and Creature think that best course of action is protect Akarin with Mistyx and flip TSQ

They’ve changed their read on Norwee?

TSQ>Norwee>Pine, assuming FL says truth