TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Pine]

Evidentiary reads > feelings

Every day

[Flavor Leaf]

im probably wrong again on the Ico norwee thing.

I swear i saw it somewhere

[Pine]

there's a potential world where scum!norwee has me pocketed, and scum!TGP hooded me and are using me to kill off FL

but then I would expect scum!TGP to be more active towards that in the hood, which isn't the case

Fuck, okay, I missed that.

Ignore the snark in my prior posts, I need to process this.

[Mistyx]

i'm not (helping to) kill today:

Nancy/TSQ/Norwee

pending stuff that needs adressing, i may or may not wanna kill:

TGP
FL

slots that I would have no problem yeeting today:

Pine/Deb/Akarin/Ramc (these are in order or preference)

here

it was still somewhat early on but it was a thing, and i didnt see indication of it trending down when i skimmed his late d2 iso

[Thestatusquo]

I can't help but notice who IS the most suspected slot by ico tho.

[Pine]

And when have you ever known me to kill someone who was openly suspicious of me? That's not my style.

[Pine]

all of norwee/Pine/FL are wasting their votes currently

we aren't yeeting in Norwee/Pine rn

TGP and DEB... a vote at this stage of the game would go a long way ya know

Also this was his last post so...

Ya know

Keep being scum, I guess

[Pine]

Dann's in my ear saying this points to Ramcius scum, which I'm still hesitant about, because that implies Norwegian Town. And for that to be true, Norwegian would have to be the hands-down most counter-productive and destructive Town player I've seen in years.

[Thestatusquo]

And when have you ever known me to kill someone who was openly suspicious of me? That's not my style.

I don't think I've ever played with you before, but I do know that I don't believe in listening to people tell me about their own meta and that you've been around long enough to know that the whole "I don't do that as scum!" defense is garbage.

[Pine]

i'm not (helping to) kill today:

Nancy/TSQ/Norwee

pending stuff that needs adressing, i may or may not wanna kill:

TGP
FL

slots that I would have no problem yeeting today:

Pine/Deb/Akarin/Ramc (these are in order or preference)

Dann's rationale is that we can assume that TGP/FL/Pine/Akarin are all Town, which means the only one on his list who he's threatening is Ramcius, while impeding a Norwegian elim.

[Thestatusquo]

all of norwee/Pine/FL are wasting their votes currently

we aren't yeeting in Norwee/Pine rn

TGP and DEB... a vote at this stage of the game would go a long way ya know

Also this was his last post so...

Ya know

Keep being scum, I guess

He still said you were scum. He just thought that TGP was the better lim.

[Thestatusquo]

You've said I'm town the literal whole game, strongly at several points, but now I'm scum because...you still haven't given any reasons. You've just attacked norwee and suggested I'm norwees buddy with no rationale.

This corresponds to me finding your claim dubious and literally no other shift. You can keep shading me, but you haven't given a single reason why I'm scum that I even need to argue against and given that I think you're scum I'm not really inclined to engage you much more than I am here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Sometimes it just be like that

like maybe it doesn't make sense Norwegian is scum to some people. He is.

what should i be doing differently to show people that Norwegian is scum here? The cases are already out there.

Dannfloor's case is mighty fire, if i do say so myself

[Flavor Leaf]

Paraphrased from Dannflor:

Dear Mini Theme,

I hadn't really been following, but when Pine started floundering I dived in. I now have strong opinions.

First, Nancy and Flavor - you are both Town, and the petulant TvT you're doing is trashing this game. Knock it off.

Nancy is Town. First, this is precisely her Town meta. That whole freaking out over being misread thing is classic her, and my research shows she sucks at faking it as scum. Further, she doesn't even

try

as scum, she's way more forgiving. That's not what's happening here. her scumgame is far more self-aware, and her blatant

lack

of self-awareness here is kind of a dead giveaway. (Editor's note: Creature shed the "Transparent" title, maybe it should go to Nancy for a while.) The only time I've ever misread Nancy was in our first game together, and at this point she's easy. I had some paranoia, but I checked and checked twice. She doesn't pull this a scum. The spats with FL reinforce this.

Flavor Leaf is also Town, incidentally. He mentioned earlier that DEB's buddies weren't likely to TR his absence and stone-throwing. DEB never remains unflipped in this game, and FL knows it. @FL you know who was hard TRing him right from the start? Nancy. As a scumbuddy, Nancy busses DEB here. And yeah, there's a WIFOM argument to be made here, but that's bunk. She can maybe do some WIFOMing stuff, but she's not up to that level yet.

Back to FL. Along with the hard Towntell Pine found earlier for him, his consistent approach to the game has been to solve and sort. Yeah, he's a prick. Yeah, he's a bit of an ass. But that fits with his aggressive means of sifting the game. But he's not quite this

reckless

as scum, and when he is it's far more calculating. Town!FL here has few illusions about survival, he's there to get in, solve, and pass it off to the grownups in the room to prosecute. It's what he does. Scum!FL has no motive to do a lot of the things he's done, provoking the people he has. There's just no

benefit

to it. He's not afraid to do so if there's gain, but there isn't here. He's just being a dick. But he's OUR dick.

Dann had a few minor observations about other players (including calling Shea out as a deepwolf long before I was convinced of it), but his thoughts focused most strongly on the Nancy vs FL issue and Norwegian. To continue.

HOW IS NORWEGIAN STILL ALIVE? He's so fucking scummy I'm starting to think he's intentionally trying to invoke the "too scummy to be scum" trope to avoid suspicion. He's been intentionally manipulating the game from the very start, pushing Town players into fighting with one another, then stepping back to stoke the carnage. Absolutely nothing he's done this game has been geared towards solving, it's all been tearing people down and tilting them at one another. "Frankly, it's gross and manipulative."

(Editor's note: That last sentence in quotes is a direct quote, everything else is heavily reworded to comply with the rules. Mods, if you want to whack me for five words, that's your prerogative.)

It's a long and abusive slog, but reread FL vs Norwegian in paired ISO. Think about what Norwegian's posts are doing. He's

goading

FL. I had Pine quote two posts from him earlier in the game, and they

remain

the scumfuckiest thing in the game. Here they are again:

titus says that Norwee and FL should never be voted unless Akarin flips town

i'm inclined to agree

I don't think this is a super bad take though, even if anyone dislikes VCA by principle.
If Akarin is town then it proves both me and FL are most likely in a SvT, and if Akarin is scum then maybe this just is a TvT and scum are in the inactive fucks or cheering our TvT on.

I’m not changing my vote until either me/FL is flipped or FL admits he is wrong on me.
I’m not going to become the elimination in ElO because of FL’s garbage play.
If FL agrees on voting someone else like Akarin then i’ll consider voting there as well. Otherwise, no.

Sweet jebas these are scummy posts

Credit @Dannflor

Everything about Norwegian's ISO is designed to engineer a scenario which is most beneficial to himself personally, while smearing others, particularly threats, with mud. He's trying to paint himself as the logical and Towny one, where he's anything but. He breathes toxicity and and tars up the game with nonsense, dragging the biggest threats into the quicksand of AtE and strawman attacks. Let's look at 3781 for a sec, where he's setting up this exact scenario, transparently trying to push an agenda rather than a solve. He's not considering other possibilities. He's stoking others' paranoia to keep the Town off balance until it drives home a lazy elimination. That's how we got a Zor elim, it's how we got a TGP elim. And all the while, he sits back and keeps poking. But again in 3781...LOOK AT WHAT HE'S DOING - he's demonstrating uncanny certainty and an impossible degree of confidence for a Town player. No Town player on D3 has the game solved this firmly. He has

presumptions

of Town on all of {misty, ND, shea, Akarin, Ramcius} that are so rock solid he's not trying to question them. He's only framing his arguments to this crowd.

TL;DR - Norwegian's game has been one of manipulation and provocation. He goads people into doing his dirty work for him, steeps the game in toxicity, and has crafted a narrative where he's the Town component of not one but two TvS pairs, in order to discard all outward suspicion of others and buddy up to them.

Whew, that was lengthy.

honestly, people just ignored this legitimate case on Norwegian.

I feel like people just want Pine and Myself to be scum.

Why can't we just fade Norwegian first here, and then we actively have a Jailkeep and a Doctor.

Norwegian has been pushing all the PR's this game, and people are calling him town for it

[Pine]

You've said I'm town the literal whole game, strongly at several points, but now I'm scum because...you still haven't given any reasons. You've just attacked norwee and suggested I'm norwees buddy with no rationale.

This corresponds to me finding your claim dubious and literally no other shift. You can keep shading me, but you haven't given a single reason why I'm scum that I even need to argue against and given that I think you're scum I'm not really inclined to engage you much more than I am here.

No, I haven't. I did an entire quote wall disproving this assertion.

[Ramcius]

I have a question, do strongman go through commute?

[Pine]

Depends who you ask, depends on whether commute is ruled to protect people from actions or cause them to fail to target.

If I’m reading Penguin’s rules right, I don’t think he answers those questions.

[Pine]

@mod is flavour actually relevant to this game?

I will not answer this question. Also, please see my following Misc Rule #2:

Questions or concerns should be messaged privately to the game moderator. Do not post these in the game thread.

Yeah, he’s not going to say

[Ramcius]

See, thing is, if commute protects from strongman, we left with only 2 doc shots, so whole setup spec against you falls apart

[Pine]

I think FL/Pine has 1 scum, leaning towards Pine

I think Norwee/TSQ/Ram has the other, Ram > TSQ > Norwee being my order from least to most towny

From Jingle - do me a favor and buddy hunt out from this. Follow your train of logic. Who are the buddies?

Scum can’t win if a kill gets saved, and FL/Pine can’t be the team.

So hunt further on from that. I’d do it, but you’re justifiably suspicious.

I’m willing to bet that you’re going to find that your T+S theory doesn’t add up.

[Mistyx]

lets work this from reverse

do you think theres something clearing any of the following

FL/TSQ
FL/Ram
Pine/TSQ
Pine/Ram

this is an open question - its like 1 am for me and i do not have the attention span to look through stuff rn

but i dont want to look for evidence in favor of it, more to see if theres anything ruling it out

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dannflors read on me is not real. Tell him i know him better than that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dann's in my ear saying this points to Ramcius scum, which I'm still hesitant about, because that implies Norwegian Town. And for that to be true, Norwegian would have to be the hands-down most counter-productive and destructive Town player I've seen in years.

Disgusting.

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL/TSQ
FL/Ram
Pine/TSQ
Pine/Ram

I doubt a Pine/TSQ team because of how TSQ is responding to Pine’s claim that me/TSQ is the team.
Rest might theoretically be possible, but i don’t see strong indications of any world where it’s not Pine being scum that faked their claim.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine and FL have given up on logical arguments and are continuing this disgusting shaming and treating me like i don’t have feelings or am insensitive to their blatant insults and attack on my personality. It’s sad how far people will go in order to win.
Misty/Nancy please just vote.