TM 2021: A normal roguelike
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Oh, I forgot to mention: I'm only including "strong" factors in these reads. I'm trying not to look at every little thing a slot's done like their reads and what reasoning makes sense, or what I don't agree with etc. I'm just looking for the things that I really believe in being town-indicative or scum-indicative.
I'm trying to do one on Creature right now and it feels impossible. How does one read this dragon?!?!?!2- Augustus Caesar
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Why'd you make this post at the time, Creature? Outside of this post, you've been consistently pushing and sus of both of those two, so, where did that world go?In post 1588, Creature wrote:This will probably go against my team's interests, but I want to work around the world xoffer and DeasVail are town.- Augustus Caesar
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Creature, a few questions:
Why'd you make this post at the time? Outside of this post, you've been consistently pushing and sus of both of those two, so, where did that world go?In post 1588, Creature wrote:This will probably go against my team's interests, but I want to work around the world xoffer and DeasVail are town.
Did DGB chip in on her take on Deas around this time? What was it?In post 1864, Creature wrote:
I dunno if this feels like DV's sxumgame as I remember itIn post 1863, Datisi wrote:why
Finally, what are YOUR scumreads? Is your xofelf read still you sheeping DGB?- Augustus Caesar
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Oh, Creature, one other question I forgot about:
Why'd you make this vote, considering your team had this opinion:
What changed?In post 1689, Creature wrote:I townread Datisi and Hectic. My team is strongly townread Adorable. Maybe I can start from here.- Augustus Caesar
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Oh, my insane tinfoil read:
RCE's been around for a while, and is aware of the "rule of three" - where if a scum player states a scumpool of three players, they usually have exactly 1 scum. He wouldn't make a novice mistake like that for TEAM MAFIA now, would he??!"??R£?$GegIn post 721, RCEnigma wrote:Probably, through 7 pages my shortlist poe is datisi/Deasveil/Reck
The tinfoil theory is that all 3 of those players are town.- DeasVail
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I think the best way to describe my feelings is that my Ydrasse read is on standby while I reevaluate my reads. Your townread on Ydrasse is a big part of my not necessarily scumreading her currently and I really need to look at where I might be wrong in my other reads before blindly trying to push an Ydrasse elim through because "sure she might be scum" today.In post 2223, Augustus Caesar wrote:Deas, how do you read Ydrasse now?
I will have the time to be able to properly consider my reads tomorrow afternoon (my time) and I expect that I will have a much better idea of where I'm at then.
For now I am pretty sure Augustus, Adorable, Xofelf and Bulge are off the table for me, but my reads on everyone else feel less "updated" and I need to reevaluate.- Ydrasse
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I did my whole catchup post. Creature wants to make it Ari vs DV. Bulge hops on the DV wagon. Creature put DV at L-2, then immediately hops off onto Ydrasse with DV when DV tries to flashwagon there.
This is now the second day in a row where Ydrasse has been flashwagoned at deadline. I'm not sure what that means but I'm flagging it as a pattern.
Creature calls DV/Ari/Ydrasse all town despite having voted two of them in the last ~10 posts.
Datisi seems to be shading Ari near the end, lambasting him for not wanting to rush reads/wagons.
We get a bunch of GIFposting between Ydrasse/Hectic. So, tinfoil time, it seems like any time Ydrasse gets momentum on her, Hectic comes in and flirtspams the thread with Ydrasse until there's no more momentum, giving Ydrasse plenty of cover to AtE her ass off. Hectic hides it all behind a meta read and says he has Ydrasse at the top of his townpile now. I feel like... this is Hectic potentially trying to pocket Ydrasse? Come in when she's under even the slightest amount of pressure, gigglespam some bullshit until people want to vomit looking at the thread, keep Ydrasse deep in the pocket. Creature calls it scum theater but that seems too brazen. I guess I could see a world where they plan out those interactions in the scum PT but I find it way more likely it's a blatant pocketing attempt.
Creature then tries to flashwagon Adorable at the end of the day. ? I don't recall Creature saying anything ab Adorable before this. Then as soon as I'm back yelling about the multiple disparate wagons/vote hopping he's back on Aristophanes to end the day.
DV's VT claim is probably true. I can't see scum claiming VT in that situation when they are at risk of just getting turbofucked by a speedwagon at deadline.
Ari now hops on Ydrasse when Creature asks what to do, having already seen the flashwagon attempt from DV/Creature so he knows there's opportunity there. I just don't fucking know man, there's so much weirdness from Ari's play. The Ydrasse flashwagon already came and fizzled, why are you trying to restart it right now?
BOOM Creature is back on Adorable. Also shading xof on the side via DGB's second hand account.
There's a post Hectic makes here about how DV not going after Ari despite decreasing his odds for survival that just rubs me the wrong way. It feels like scum talking out how town should behave in a situation to rationalize a vote hop rather than organic town thought, if that makes sense?
Hectic then derails all the momentum on Adorable for a last second flash wagon on Sirius. I show up before bed and toss down a vote.
I can't even be mad about the Sirius wagon. He did nothing all game and then showed up at the very end when getting wagoned just before deadline to whine about being wagoned.
Hectic shows up to declare the speedwagon he lead at the last minute is going to flip town but that "this is the wagon for today".
This seems to be a pattern. Hectic jumps on or leads a wagon on someone, then declares them to be town. Actually Hectic's entire game is weirdly built around declaring people town and following townreads. I generally find that to be scummy because it's way easier for scum to hide behind townreads they know to be true than try to manufacture scumreads on people to push mislims.
It's a similar vibe as to why I'm reading Ari as scum still, because we're on Day 3 of this game and I cannot tell you one single scumread Ari has pushed or committed to.
Anyway, I don't know if that helped me at all.
I've got DV/xof/Bulge deep in my "Will Not Touch" bucket right now.
I think after re-reading everything, my top picks for scum right now look like Ari, Creature, and Hectic? Ari is something I just can't shake. I worry that I'm getting tunnel vision where I can't see anything he does as pro-town, but like, I legitimately have tried to reread his posts from a townie mindset and am just not getting there, there's too much scum motivation I read. Creature's constant vote hopping end of day yesterday looks extremely bad, as does Hectic's. They both hopped around a ton and killed momentum on wagons at the last second. They both lead wagons on people that they covered their asses by saying they thought were town. Multiple times. I refuse to believe that scum had no part in the end of day bullshit yesterday.
So... there.green shirt thursdays- xRECKONERx
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Because I cannot fathom a world where the vast majority of xof's post come from someone playing with scum motivationsIn post 2235, Ydrasse wrote:i too will be considering my reads tonight
in the meantime why is xof off the table for everyone right now? they still are on it for megreen shirt thursdays- Augustus Caesar
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Augustus Caesar Goon
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I vote and pressure someone I think is scum, give reasons for why I scumread them, people like or agree with my reasons, and vote with me. The Bulge and Deas both reacted in towny ways to pressure.In post 2236, xRECKONERx wrote:This seems to be a pattern. Hectic jumps on or leads a wagon on someone, then declares them to be town. Actually Hectic's entire game is weirdly built around declaring people town and following townreads. I generally find that to be scummy because it's way easier for scum to hide behind townreads they know to be true than try to manufacture scumreads on people to push mislims.
You're saying I'm both simultaneously scum hiding behind townreads because those are easier to manufacture, while acknowledging I've been pushing scumreads and leading wagons all game? Which is it? I scumread and gave cases on Deas and The Bulge and was the reason they were both wagoned. I don't understand this at all.
The Ydrasse pocketing thing is really stupid considering she would most likely be dead on day 1 or 2 if I hadn't convinced people she were town, and the fact my reasons are very good. I'm not unnecessarily defending her and it's not over the top. I'm defending her because I strongly believe she's town and she would very likely run up and mislaunched if I didn't.- Augustus Caesar
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...In post 2236, xRECKONERx wrote:It's a similar vibe as to why I'm reading Ari as scum still, because we're on Day 3 of this game and I cannot tell you one single scumread Ari has pushed or committed to.
You can't remember me pushing Deas or The Bulge? Or beeboy/RCE from the previous day?
It'd be the easiest thing in the world for me to remain true in my pushes and continue voting them. I already gave the reasons for why I thought either of those two were scum, it's not difficult for me to just say I still believe in them. I change my mind because I'm actually changing my mind and think their reactions to pressure are towny, or change my mind in something previously they've done.
Unsure if OMGUSing or whether I really hate all of these arguments by Reck to force scum-motivation for my actions. Chip in please, townbloc.- Augustus Caesar
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I'm very happy you agree with me on these slots ftr. If you can trust in my Ydrasse-read, this day should be a lot less chaotic and make a lot more sense if we focus efforts on the slots that actually contain scum.In post 2234, DeasVail wrote:For now I am pretty sure Augustus, Adorable, Xofelf and Bulge are off the table for me, but my reads on everyone else feel less "updated" and I need to reevaluate.
Right now, I'm wagering it's Creature + 1 of Ari/Reck.- Augustus Caesar
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Actually looking forward to DIGGING in and reading through those Ari/Reck interactions now. I doubt that's SvS given how bad of a strat that is after a scum buddy goes down day 1.
Also, thinking [Ydrasse, Puff, The Bulge, xofelf, Deas] are town only leaves [Creature, Ari, Reck] as a PoE. I didn't even realise earlier it was that small lol. Really believe we have 2 scum in that pool.- xRECKONERx
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I'm saying you back down off scumreads and call everyone town.In post 2238, Augustus Caesar wrote:
I vote and pressure someone I think is scum, give reasons for why I scumread them, people like or agree with my reasons, and vote with me. The Bulge and Deas both reacted in towny ways to pressure.In post 2236, xRECKONERx wrote:This seems to be a pattern. Hectic jumps on or leads a wagon on someone, then declares them to be town. Actually Hectic's entire game is weirdly built around declaring people town and following townreads. I generally find that to be scummy because it's way easier for scum to hide behind townreads they know to be true than try to manufacture scumreads on people to push mislims.
You're saying I'm both simultaneously scum hiding behind townreads because those are easier to manufacture, while acknowledging I've been pushing scumreads and leading wagons all game? Which is it? I scumread and gave cases on Deas and The Bulge and was the reason they were both wagoned. I don't understand this at all.
The Ydrasse pocketing thing is really stupid considering she would most likely be dead on day 1 or 2 if I hadn't convinced people she were town, and the fact my reasons are very good. I'm not unnecessarily defending her and it's not over the top. I'm defending her because I strongly believe she's town and she would very likely run up and mislaunched if I didn't.
Literally, right now, you have it narrowed down to me/Ari/Creature not because you think we're scummy, because you've found reasons to town read everybody else.
You gave cases on Deas and Bulge and then backed down. There's not commitment and all it does is lead to you calling every person you wagon town. That's my point.
You pushed beeboy solely off him not being here. Plenty of people did.In post 2239, Augustus Caesar wrote:
...In post 2236, xRECKONERx wrote:It's a similar vibe as to why I'm reading Ari as scum still, because we're on Day 3 of this game and I cannot tell you one single scumread Ari has pushed or committed to.
You can't remember me pushing Deas or The Bulge? Or beeboy/RCE from the previous day?
It'd be the easiest thing in the world for me to remain true in my pushes and continue voting them. I already gave the reasons for why I thought either of those two were scum, it's not difficult for me to just say I still believe in them. I change my mind because I'm actually changing my mind and think their reactions to pressure are towny, or change my mind in something previously they've done.
Unsure if OMGUSing or whether I really hate all of these arguments by Reck to force scum-motivation for my actions. Chip in please, townbloc.
Though, I may need to reread that. I remember Ari's interactions there being weird as fuck but I don't recall your specific actions around that wagon. I'm more speaking broadly about you and Ari BOTH spending the vast majority of the game calling people town instead of pursuing scum reads.
"It'd be the easiest thing in the world" until you have to commit to a read. I don't know, man, I look at your list, I see that you've called everyone town except three people (which, by the way, you HAVE called me town already before, I'm just in your scum pile now because I'm "less townie than other people" which is a bullshit PoE reason). I think your reasons for calling people town are flimsy. Like, you started calling xofelf town after it was convenient to do so. There's one comment from like two weeks ago where you agree with my stated reasons for xofelf being town, that's it. Why does xofelf get perma-town status from you off of one post that was noteworthy whereas you called my posting giving you "big town vibes" yet that gets faded to the background. I'm trying to find the progression there. I'm trying to find the progression on Ari going from a townlean you hard defended all the way to your scumpool. There isn't any that I can see. Feel free to illuminate where these reads progressed from if I'm missing something.green shirt thursdays- xRECKONERx
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I really dislike this, though.In post 2239, Augustus Caesar wrote:Unsure if OMGUSing or whether I really hate all of these arguments by Reck to force scum-motivation for my actions. Chip in please, townbloc.
Hectic's natural response to me even LIGHTLY pressuring him is to set up for an OMGUS on me, but he's using this "town bloc" he put together to preemptively justify it so he can absolve himself of committing to a read.
I still think Aristophanes is scum. I need more associatives to find the last one. beeboy being gone + RCE being dead in the water makes it really hard to read any tells around him to know how scum would react. I'll give it a reread at some point to see if I can glean anything about Hectic from his play around it.green shirt thursdays- Augustus Caesar
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Why is this scummy? Why is it scummy for me to change my mind about people I initially scumread and push?In post 2242, xRECKONERx wrote:I'm saying you back down off scumreads and call everyone town.
Literally, right now, you have it narrowed down to me/Ari/Creature not because you think we're scummy, because you've found reasons to town read everybody else.
You gave cases on Deas and Bulge and then backed down. There's not commitment and all it does is lead to you calling every person you wagon town. That's my point.- Augustus Caesar
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I've laid out why I don't like your reasons. I also acknowledge I could be OMGUSing. I want a second or fourth opinion on something I'm biased on.In post 2243, xRECKONERx wrote:I really dislike this, though.
Hectic's natural response to me even LIGHTLY pressuring him is to set up for an OMGUS on me, but he's using this "town bloc" he put together to preemptively justify it so he can absolve himself of committing to a read.- xRECKONERx
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Because it's the only thing you do. Because it's way easier for scum to avoid heat by staying out of the spotlight. Call people town, they won't look twice at you most of the time.
I find it way more likely that scum calls a bunch of people town and uses PoE to determine their reads bc then there's no read to defend. It's just "welp it's PoE".
This is from experience, this is just what I've seen happen a million times. Scum have a much easier time calling town town than calling town scum, that's just basic psychology. Scum want to tell the truth when possible to minimize the chances they're caught in a lie and calling town by their proper alignment is the easiest way to do that.
So yeah I'm gonna raise an eyebrow at anyone with too many townreads and no scumreadsgreen shirt thursdays- Augustus Caesar
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xofelf is a very viable mislaunch right now actually if I was scum. Ydrasse and Creature both scumread them.In post 2242, xRECKONERx wrote:"It'd be the easiest thing in the world" until you have to commit to a read. I don't know, man, I look at your list, I see that you've called everyone town except three people (which, by the way, you HAVE called me town already before, I'm just in your scum pile now because I'm "less townie than other people" which is a bullshit PoE reason). I think your reasons for calling people town are flimsy. Like, you started calling xofelf town after it was convenient to do so. There's one comment from like two weeks ago where you agree with my stated reasons for xofelf being town, that's it. Why does xofelf get perma-town status from you off of one post that was noteworthy whereas you called my posting giving you "big town vibes" yet that gets faded to the background. I'm trying to find the progression there. I'm trying to find the progression on Ari going from a townlean you hard defended all the way to your scumpool. There isn't any that I can see. Feel free to illuminate where these reads progressed from if I'm missing something.
Besides that,uh, what was it, you think it's weird for me to have you/Ari in the PoE when I individually thought you both town earlier. Well, you said it yourself, I have stronger more tangible reasons to believe the other 5 slots are town. I made that reaslist to verbalize on those reasons. I couldn't find those same obvious reasons that speak out to me for you two. I thought you town because of town energy or vibes earlier on, and stuff you're saying generally made sense. That's fine but not something I can really see and believe in is actually of substance to think you're town.
Ari I thought town because of meta and the fact I haven't seen him get mad in like the 5 scumgames I'e looked through of his now, and he has been mad at you this game. I also then considered that he has PINE, and DANNFLOR, and one other person I can't remember the name of (terribly sorry but I'm sure you're also a good player) on his team, and that if needed, they could literally feed the solving to him for him to change the wording of, oh yeah, it was Jingle, sorry, Jangle. But yeah, or at least assist him heavily in. They're also aware that Ari doesn't get mad as scum, so may have encouraged or helped him to fake some. Considering these things and the strength of the players on his team, especially at playing scum, has made me value my metaread there a whole lot less than I did before.
So, I'm gonna ignore meta now, and read through all of his posts and read him solely for his actions THIS game. You should be elated.- Augustus Caesar
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Mm, this is fair as a general thing. But again, you're saying scum find it easier to stay out of the spotlight and just fake townreads rather than scumreads, but that isn't what I've been doing at all. I've been making scumcases and pushing scumreads with reasons on why I think they're scum. If Deas or The Bulge were launched, I would be the one responsible. I don't get where you get that impression of my play from.In post 2246, xRECKONERx wrote:Because it's the only thing you do. Because it's way easier for scum to avoid heat by staying out of the spotlight. Call people town, they won't look twice at you most of the time.
I find it way more likely that scum calls a bunch of people town and uses PoE to determine their reads bc then there's no read to defend. It's just "welp it's PoE".
This is from experience, this is just what I've seen happen a million times. Scum have a much easier time calling town town than calling town scum, that's just basic psychology. Scum want to tell the truth when possible to minimize the chances they're caught in a lie and calling town by their proper alignment is the easiest way to do that.
So yeah I'm gonna raise an eyebrow at anyone with too many townreads and no scumreads- Augustus Caesar
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Point being is that if I WANTED to, I could maintain a scumread on any of those slots I pushed previously, and I very much don't struggle to fake scumreads as scum. You can't say I'm scummy for no longer having any strong scumreads now when I have done before for good reasons, and ones that people called me town for. You have to explain why it's a scum-motivated decision for me to have those scumreads, to only decide to lose them later rather than stay consistent.
And let me lay on some JUICY self-meta:
if I were scum, I'd want to play this as cleanly and consistently as possible. I'd show clear progression, wouldn't be impulsive, and wouldn't let go of scumreads and resort to using PoE on day 3. I'm aware people townread players when they really believe in their pushes and remain true to them. Mislaunching someone isn't considered scummy if you think the pusher really believed in their reasons, so I wouldn't be at all afraid of hanging onto those scumreads. Reason I haven't here is because I'm town and odn't believe in them anymore.
I know I'm being defensive but I'd rather nip this in the bud now rather than waste time being looked at when I'm feeling pretty good about my scumpool (who weshouldbe looking at)
Actually, that's a lie, mostly it'd just be stressful and would make me have less fun this game, and I want to be selfish and be able to scumhunt in peace lol - Augustus Caesar
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