TM 2021: A normal roguelike

[Augustus Caesar]

Isis, I bought Monster Train earlier today. Post a votecount in the next 48 hours if you want me to provide a diary of my progress here

[The Bulge]

Reck's town stock is soaring. Hectic I don't think anything is being forced your way. I do like the idea of Creature + someone else, but I disagree with townbinning xof and ydrasse (although I doubt I can sway you on that one).

[The Bulge]

Oh, my insane tinfoil read:

Probably, through 7 pages my shortlist poe is datisi/Deasveil/Reck

RCE's been around for a while, and is aware of the "rule of three" - where if a scum player states a scumpool of three players, they usually have exactly 1 scum. He wouldn't make a novice mistake like that for TEAM MAFIA now, would he??!"??R£?$Geg

The tinfoil theory is that all 3 of those players are town.

this seems reasonable actually

[Augustus Caesar]

Would be nice if it was just Creature + Ari

[Creature]

Okay then let's bus Ari

[Augustus Caesar]

Had some questions for you, Creature

[xRECKONERx]

I know I'm being defensive but I'd rather nip this in the bud now rather than waste time being looked at when I'm feeling pretty good about my scumpool (who we should be looking at)

I mean you have me in your scum pool based on "everyone else seems town" so like excuse me if I'm not exactly willing to let you just waltz away with calling me scum based on PoE and then going ab your business

If you want to deep dive you can do that with me exerting the SLIGHTEST amount of pressure on you my fucking god

I'll respond to the rest later jesus

[Augustus Caesar]

Yeah, okay, that's fine. And I'm defending myself.

[Creature]

Had some questions for you, Creature

Let me find them first

[xRECKONERx]

Oh actually my meeting got canceled sweet, I have time now:

xof would not be an easy mislim here, because of people like me and DV both townreading them.
But that's beside the point.

You have stronger reasons to believe the others are town? Let's break it down, shall we?
- Ydrasse is town because meta.
- xofelf is town because of RCE's interactions with them.
- DV is town because he got put to L-1 and didn't crack under pressure.
- Bulge is town because of his claim.
- Adorable is town because you don't think Discord conversations can be faked.

That's it. That's what I've seen you give as reasons for "strongly townreading them".

I'm not even saying you're wrong about these reads. In fact, I think you're right about them for the most part. What I am not buying -- specifically -- is that you feel/believe these reads SO STRONGLY that it has lead to you playing the scumhunting game via PoE. Especially the way you've broken down your WIP reads list. You read all emotional play as town. I know we've been over this before but it feels like you're working backwards from the outcome you want. Any emotional outburst/tone where you want it to mean "town" means town. Any emotional outburst/tone where you conveniently don't want it to mean town doesn't mean town. I'm having trouble parsing what I'm seeing as inconsistencies in your logic here.

Like shit, even your reasons why Ari could be scum -- because even though meta says town, he has a team that could coach him here... isn't this like, the exact reason you're TOWNREADING Adorable? Because she has a team that is coaching her and she wouldn't fake those coaching interactions?

I contest the idea that you're "out of the spotlight". You've not received a single eyeball directed your way the entire game until I just put you in a potential three person scumpool, and your reaction has been to flip out/get super defensive over like two sentences in a catch up post I made. I'm the first one to drag you out into the spotlight to defend your actions. That's pretty out of the spotlight IMO, and I stand by my characterization of your play thus far.

"I play scummy because if I was scum I'd play townie" is just nine levels of moonbeam pants-on-head stupid that I'm not going to even dignify it by pretending like I give a shit about your self-meta.

You're welcome to continue your promised dives on the three people not in your town list now, as most everyone else has done this game while under mild to moderate pressure without grinding things to a halt!

[Creature]

The DV/xofelf thing was because DGB kept telling me they contained scum. I decided to try to see a world in which both are town because Reck kept insisting they were both town and also both of them shouted me down at some point, so I tried a different perspective.

[Augustus Caesar]

You have stronger reasons to believe the others are town? Let's break it down, shall we?
- Ydrasse is town because meta.
- xofelf is town because of RCE's interactions with them.
- DV is town because he got put to L-1 and didn't crack under pressure.
- Bulge is town because of his claim.
- Adorable is town because you don't think Discord conversations can be faked.

I don't know why you're simplifying them like this. I have several good reasons for each:

Spoiler: WIP ordered reads

Ydrasse -

POSTIVES:

I'm extremely confident Ydrasse is town for tone and emotion.
Firstly, for her end of day 1 reaction to being counterwagoned to scum.
Secondly, for her emotional reaction to Datisi pushing her. More in 1692 1704 1732.

Puff -

POSITIVES:

Initially, I thought her town since her entrance was very LHFey, and I'd expect some level of coaching from teammates.
This was a towny post in perspective that I see unlikely as coming from scum!Puff.
Overall, her play is antagonistic and draws a lot of attention, I think it unlikely she's the type of player who comes out swinging like this for Team Mafia.
Akarin and Puff had talked about the game in a previous day, and Puff had not presented these reads to us previously. She only felt the need to share them when she thought she was going to be mislaunched, and didn't want Akarin's thoughts to go to waste. I find it unlikely Akarin prepared notes for Puff to share to look towny at a later date, and I think the recounting of the discord conversation felt real.

The Bulge -

POSITIVES:

The crumbs for his claim, and his suspicion on peta for the psyched post.
The Bulge's play since then has just looked a lot more towny, the arguments make sense.
His annoyance at me for outing him in posts like this, and others.
His highly emotional entrance start of today.

NEGATIVES:

I have one major hangup with The Bulge, and it's him expressing fear of being nightkilled. I think it's more likely he makes that post as scum, since it has the benefits of making him look like a PR and he doesn't have the concern of not being nightkilled. Being a PR however, it's somewhat careless and I'd expect more caution.

Xofelf -

POSITIVES:

Initially thought their posting felt organic and natural, I think they believe what they're digging at.
I think it's very unlikely xofelf interacts with RCE in the way a scum partner would, and similarly the way RCE interacted with xofelf.
I like the way they scumread Ydrasse based on what she knows from playing LSGs. They're taking their skillset from playing social games like survivor, and trying to apply that to Ydrasse to solve her. I like it.

NEGATIVES:

I don't like the way they responded to me about my towncase on Ydrasse here, and here. It felt stubborn yet sympathetic and the contrast felt off. As if they wanted to disagree with me since Ydrasse is a possible mislaunch, but didn't want to step on my toes too much.

DeasVail -

POSITIVES:

Deas said he thought I was even more town after I pushed him, but never expanded on why. He only brought up why today, and the reasoning is solid and looks towny. The reason why I think this is so town-indicative, is that Deas had a good reason to think I was town but didn't feel the need to explain it to make himself look towny yesterday while he was nearly murdered several times, he only brought it up when someone suggested I might be a deepwolf the next day. Shows there's an underlying thought process there and one he didn't care to use to "look" town earlier.
If scum!Deas thinks Datisi is a mason or some other PR that he plans to kill in the night, I don't think he pushes him to the extent he does yesterday.
1984 and 1994 bleed town to me. His concerns feel really real and I love the paranoia about him thinking he might be wrong about Ari, but still not wanting to counterwagon him.

NEGATIVES:

This feels oddly blunt for Deas, and I wonder if the difference is due to talking to a scum buddy and wanting to appear strong/unaligned.
My initial case on him. Didn't like how he didn't argue more for keeping RCE around for a night.

I'm not even saying you're wrong about these reads. In fact, I think you're right about them for the most part. What I am not buying -- specifically -- is that you feel/believe these reads SO STRONGLY that it has lead to you playing the scumhunting game via PoE. Especially the way you've broken down your WIP reads list. You read all emotional play as town. I know we've been over this before but it feels like you're working backwards from the outcome you want. Any emotional outburst/tone where you want it to mean "town" means town. Any emotional outburst/tone where you conveniently don't want it to mean town doesn't mean town. I'm having trouble parsing what I'm seeing as inconsistencies in your logic here.

Mm, no, this isn't true, I don't just townread emotion. You and Ari have also shown emotion this game. I explained why I found yours to be NAI, and why I have recent doubts about Ari's being town-indicative. Creature has shown it too with him being frustrated/tired, but I'm aware he does this as both alignments.

Like shit, even your reasons why Ari could be scum -- because even though meta says town, he has a team that could coach him here... isn't this like, the exact reason you're TOWNREADING Adorable? Because she has a team that is coaching her and she wouldn't fake those coaching interactions?

Sigh, that isn't the main reason I think Puff is town. I have several stronger reasons to believe Puff is town in that readslist, and I don't know why you're hoping in on the coaching reasons - my intial readslist didn't even have that reason btw, it's the one I perhaps feel least strongly about. You're also misrepresenting what I'm saying makes it towny for her. It's not that she's being given reads, it's the fact she had a previous discord convo that she didn't provide for towncred, but wanted to when she was being run up and nearly dead.

I townread Ari because the solving seemed genuine to me and I didn't think it was in Ari's scumrange. I know realise he has a team who could be faking it for him.

I townread Puff not because the solving is genuine or good, but because of the takes she decides to make - being antagonistic and voicing strange scumreads which gets her a lot of attention. This is not something her team is likely to be encouraging her to do.

[Augustus Caesar]

I townread Ari because the solving seemed genuine to me and I didn't think it was in Ari's scumrange. I know realise he has a team who could be faking it for him.

*I

used to townread

Ari because the solving seemed genuine to me and I didn't think it was in Ari's scumrange. I

now

realise realise he has a team who could be faking it for him.

[Augustus Caesar]

Would appreciate if you answered the other questions too, Creature.

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on my Creature-dive? Which Recks seems to have missed happening apparently:

You're welcome to continue your promised dives on the three people not in your town list now, as most everyone else has done this game while under mild to moderate pressure without grinding things to a halt!

I feel a headache coming so I'm gonna save looking at Ari/Reck for tomorrow. I've refreshed this page WAY too many times today

[DeasVail]

For now I am pretty sure Augustus, Adorable, Xofelf and Bulge are off the table for me, but my reads on everyone else feel less "updated" and I need to reevaluate.

I'm very happy you agree with me on these slots ftr. If you can trust in my Ydrasse-read, this day should be a lot less chaotic and make a lot more sense if we focus efforts on the slots that actually contain scum.

Right now, I'm wagering it's Creature + 1 of Ari/Reck.

Based on what I remember about the game and your post on Creature I think I would agree to a Creature elim today but he is someone who I’ve gone back and forth on so much this game and I want to take a proper re-look at him before committing to that.

[Adorable]

Would appreciate if you answered the other questions too, Creature.

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on my Creature-dive? Which Recks seems to have missed happening apparently:

You're welcome to continue your promised dives on the three people not in your town list now, as most everyone else has done this game while under mild to moderate pressure without grinding things to a halt!

I feel a headache coming so I'm gonna save looking at Ari/Reck for tomorrow. I've refreshed this page WAY too many times today

I saw your Creature-dive and the part where he said RCE is a liability rather than scum was suspicious since it looked like he knew something about RCE's alignment.

[Isis]

Votecount 3.2

• Augustus
  Caesar (He/Him)
  (0)
  
• Aristophanes (He/Him)
  (1) xRECKONERx,
  
• Ydrasse
  (She/Her)
  (0)
  
• Creature (He/Him)
  (2) Augustus Caesar, Adorable,
  
• xofelf (They/Them)
  (1) Creature
  
• DeasVail (He/Him)
  (0)
  
• The
  Bulge (Any/Any)
  (0)
  
• Adorable (She/Her)
  (0)
  
• xRECKONERx (He/Him)
  (0)

Not Voting (5): Aristophanes, Ydrasse, xofelf, DeasVail, The Bulge,
With nine alive, it takes five votes to make a decision.
(expired on 2021-03-02 05:00:00)

---

Playing fast is hard. T-Bone's run should be even worse.

[Ydrasse]

i am very tired and have been lately, sorry about this, but i did wanna say that im like... almost positive im not being pocketed.

its not like the worry hasnt been on my mind bc like, in theory hectic has me right where he wants me if hes scum: hes done the most to defend me where he literally did not have to at all, and for like... what benefit? a long term pocket for endgame? doesnt he stress out about how this looks and appears because hes going hard for me for reasons that people are consistently going ??? at. to me it makes more sense to do that because he is town and like... idk i dont wanna get deep into meta but he knows how i play better than anyone else and he can read me like a book LMAO. i can't really do the same as well in return + have scumread him incorrectly before but this game, it'd be like. if he's playing scum he's playing the "okay let's just play messy as i want" sort of thing for how yesterday's eod went. it was chaotic sure and it looks very apparent after the fact that he was spinning the merry go round but to me he is just trying to find the best person to elim, and is re-evaluating in the places where he isnt as strong to try and figure shit out

uhhh. so yeah, thats that, if im being pocketed im the biggest fool in the world and im going to kill him after this game so this is his one warning but thats not really in the realm of possibility... barring the way that he helped to take down rce when he didnt have to, the way hes been willing to like... not just steamroll through elims on people he sussed (deas comes 2 mind) and gives them room, all that. i get him wanting to not deal w it because if i was in his shoes id be pissed people doubted me lmfao. he's really just town this game and i don't think that's the place to be hunting. i'd say right now but i also just dont think you ever go there... ever, to elim?

so ye

[Ydrasse]

i feel like the poe is small this game which uh... im okay with it, i think...?

everyone's doing the thing where they all slow turn to face down creature basically and i like... hum. hum hum. i don't think the people doing it are scum but it feels like everyone's coming to that conclusion right now and i'm wondering if there was any one thing that's gotten us there, i guess, or just town towning it up?

[Ydrasse]

also i want to wait on Something before i place my vote

that is cagey as fuck but there is method here for once in this game, just once

[Ydrasse]

also tomorrow i'll read creature but i have a feeling that i'm going to do the same thing i always do when i try to read him: end up with not a whole lot to show

[Ydrasse]

okay good night thread

[xofelf]

I've been dealing with a toothache since yesterday, hoping it gets less annoying where it doesn't interfere with thinking as much as it has been today. I will be back with thoughts when they're actually somewhat coherent again.

[DeasVail]

I haven't had as much time as I was hoping for today but I've looked over Creature and something I'm interested in discussing:
- Why is Creature as scum the first to unvote me from E-1 Day 2? (Switching to Adorable who I think would b a very unlikely elim from scum's PoV) It's the start of what made my elim wagon no longer viable for Day 2 and seems like an unnecessary risk for scum. Creature certainly wouldn't have been immune to a quick wagon and I probably would not have been considered the sort of person by scum that could just be eliminated later. (I would also suggest that a Creature scumflip would make me very unlikely to be scum but that could be a matter of opinion. At the very least, I think Creature-scum probably thinks that if he flips before I do then I'm much harder to miselim.

[Aristophanes]

Ya so yesterday I was just tired af and went to bed right when I got home. Hopefully I'll have the energy today after work for this game.