TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[NorwegianboyEE]

@Nancy I will let you think for yourself. But i just want to say a little bit.

Basically i just have two questions for you.

What would you expect Pine to do in the case of a TSQ townflip?
Why would this be useful at all for solving the game?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy I will let you think for yourself. But i just want to say a little bit.

Basically i just have two questions for you.

What would you expect Pine to do in the case of a TSQ townflip?
Why would this be useful at all for solving the game?

I would think then you’re probably right, especially if you’re jk’d and a kill still happens.

But my point is a vt elim is safer if you agree that a DEB strongman ruies out a Pine/FL team.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why is it safer to elim a VT over Pine right now when we think Pine has the highest chance individually of flipping scum.

[Thestatusquo]

@Nancy I will let you think for yourself. But i just want to say a little bit.

Basically i just have two questions for you.

What would you expect Pine to do in the case of a TSQ townflip?
Why would this be useful at all for solving the game?

I would think then you’re probably right, especially if you’re jk’d and a kill still happens.

But my point is a vt elim is safer if you agree that a DEB strongman ruies out a Pine/FL team.

I still don't agree with that. We had this argument before and I thought you agreed that ruling out that team was a bad idea. I can go over it again if you want.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine being alive doesn't make that scenario any better for town. And i think eliming anywhere other than Pine lowers our odds of hitting scum. Pine being alive is only arguably beneficial if we are guaranteed to hit scum elsewhere.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy I will let you think for yourself. But i just want to say a little bit.

Basically i just have two questions for you.

What would you expect Pine to do in the case of a TSQ townflip?
Why would this be useful at all for solving the game?

The way I see it is that if a kill happens and he accuses whichever one of you/Shea he claims to jk of it, he’d then be scumclaiming so I see his plan as protown because even if Pine is scum, his buddy cannot possibly be FL for mech reasons.

And yes, I think FL/Ram being in favour of one of you/Shea being jk’d reads protown to me because how does it help scum either of them, to have either vt you/Shea jk’d?

I also think Pine sounds extremely sincere with his recent posts and I think he’s telling the truth. He also was the most against a Zor flip.

I’m gut tr him now and I oppose his elim today.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why is it safer to elim a VT over Pine right now when we think Pine has the highest chance individually of flipping scum.

Who is Pine’s buddy because if it’s FL, then DEB strongman means we have a broken setup?

[NorwegianboyEE]

If a kill happens, he wouldn't be accusing the person he jailkept of that kill. He would be saying that they are still scum, even though they did not make the kill, because there is a second scum in that scenario. The jailkeep proves nothing in the scenario where there are still 2 scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Why is it safer to elim a VT over Pine right now when we think Pine has the highest chance individually of flipping scum.

Who is Pine’s buddy because if it’s FL, then DEB strongman means we have a broken setup?

What? You're going to have to run that one by me again.

[Thestatusquo]

Pines buddy is plausibly FL or ramcius.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And therein lies the problem in not eliminating Pine for their claim.
It clearly can work against town if it’s a scum fake claim. And without guiltying Pine.
He would be able to argue for his innocense despite if the night and elimination ends up becoming a pro-scum result.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

[NorwegianboyEE]

To elaborate, the reason it is weak setup spec is because you are drawing large conclusions about the setup from a single flip within that setup.

[Pine]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

I do not believe JJH endorsed that. Full stop.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Strong setup spec, such as the indication that there are no ungated roles in this setup, comes from looking at all the information we have at once.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

I do not believe JJH endorsed that. Full stop.

JJH is asking me why you don’t believe he said that.

[Mistyx]

VOTE: no elim

Let's get back to odd numbers, I doubt we'll achieve anything this day phase anyway

i agree

VOTE: mistyx

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why is it safer to elim a VT over Pine right now when we think Pine has the highest chance individually of flipping scum.

Who is Pine’s buddy because if it’s FL, then DEB strongman means we have a broken setup?

What? You're going to have to run that one by me again.

Pines buddy is plausibly FL or ramcius.

How does a Pine/FL team make sense mech wise with a DEB strongman?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I envy your role pm Misty because it would be gold on my slot.
JJH shares this sentiment.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

A strongman implies either a town doc or roleblocker of some sort and so far all we have in that regard is a 1 shot doc flip, which makes no sense especially when you check out last year’s setup. If you’re arguing a Pine/FL team then you’re pretty much arguing that scum would have a 1 shot strongman counterbalanced by only a 1 shot doc and as a game designer yourself, I don’t understand how you wouldn’t see that as unbalanced?

[Thestatusquo]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

A strongman implies either a town doc or roleblocker of some sort and so far all we have in that regard is a 1 shot doc flip, which makes no sense especially when you check out last year’s setup. If you’re arguing a Pine/FL team then you’re pretty much arguing that scum would have a 1 shot strongman counterbalanced by only a 1 shot doc and as a game designer yourself, I don’t understand how you wouldn’t see that as unbalanced?

Why would it be unbalanced if it doesn't do very much? You can't speculate on balance overall without knowing the scum roles. 1 shot strong man is a role that is totally fine as a red herring if both town and scum don't have a ton of power, like this setup.

Not every role has to have a counter role. In fact, I think its pretty lazy setup design to do that. It's not how I approach the games I make at all.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@Nancy
'implies' is the key word. It doesn't say "definitely means town has significant protectives".

[Thestatusquo]

Jingle, who pine keeps referencing, just backup modded/reviewed among us which had no real protective role for town, for instance. I think that getting into this game of "this role means x role must be in the game." is a really dangerous thing to do as town if the mod is at all competent.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

I do not believe JJH endorsed that. Full stop.

That’s why my team is reacessing now because once I explained to Math about the strongman, he realized a you/FL team along with a DEB strongman and no other counterbalancing TPR roles, makes absolutely no sense with just a 1 shot doc and Shea has modded games so I don’t understand how he can honestly believe this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

We still think it's Pine/Ram, but JJH would not be so fast to rule out Pine/FL because of setup spec that is based on a single role in the setup. He is however, personally ruling out FL because he townreads him based on his posts.