In post 4956, Flavor Leaf wrote:ive been saying the team was most likely status/norwegian for a long time? before you were
Flavor Leaf
Shea is the better flip here. A Shea scumflip and a jail of Norwee most likely leads to gottem game over we win.
In the last 24 hours or so...I have the smallest of cold feet on Norwee. My team and I are getting paranoid that there’s the slightest chance that he could be Town playing an epically bad game. We do not want to bet the game on him. We are prepared to bet the game on Shea being scum, it’s the only thing which checks all the boxes. Shea flips, and we can confirm/clear potential partners at will.
Oh look at Pine preparing for TSQ’s townflip already.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
And the good old "discredit town" by claiming i’m just playing a bad game.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
In post 4975, Pine wrote:Shea flips, and we can confirm/clear potential partners at will.
This is assuming TSQ flips scum, which he won’t. So your argument is fundamentally flawed and just buzzwords. Claiming town victory will be within reach if only we eliminate TSQ, which is in fact. A complete and utter lie.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
In post 4975, Pine wrote:Shea flips, and we can confirm/clear potential partners at will.
This is assuming TSQ flips scum, which he won’t. So your argument is fundamentally flawed and just buzzwords. Claiming town victory will be within reach if only we eliminate TSQ, which is in fact. A complete and utter lie.
And look at this wildly unjustified hard lock on Shea as Town. Jesus, man, you aren’t even trying, are you?
I’ve already confirmed you as scum for fake claiming.
There are no ungated roles in this setup.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
In post 4956, Flavor Leaf wrote:ive been saying the team was most likely status/norwegian for a long time? before you were
Flavor Leaf
Shea is the better flip here. A Shea scumflip and a jail of Norwee most likely leads to gottem game over we win.
In the last 24 hours or so...I have the smallest of cold feet on Norwee. My team and I are getting paranoid that there’s the slightest chance that he could be Town playing an epically bad game. We do not want to bet the game on him. We are prepared to bet the game on Shea being scum, it’s the only thing which checks all the boxes. Shea flips, and we can confirm/clear potential partners at will.
okay
why is this happening with norwee but not with shea
you gave a full case on norwee but i don't understand your reasons for shea being 100% lock scum
Mistyx - I suppose it’s possible you’re scum, but Vengeful would be a ridiculously reckless claim. You’ve also been playing D3 suspicious and Townie, and if I’m vexed by your conclusions you’re coming by then honestly.
Nancy Drew 39 - Town by play. If Nancy is scum here, she deserves the win.
Flavor Leaf - Has repeatedly Towntold. Has been logical and incisive, and has had even less patience for foolishness than I have. I think he’d be way more indulgent as scum, just from a meta perspective.
Pine - I’ve seen my role PM.
thestatusquo - Mostly PoE, supported by his manipulative gameplay and targeted flattery of some and as hom attacks on others.
Ramcius - Was high on my PoE list, but if you read his ISO from the point I suggested, I think it shows him Town.
NorwegianboyEE - Like 95% scum. Has been supporting and defending Shea for quite some time now with practically no Towncase on him.
Akarin - Town by role.
My read is that Shea is a PR and Norwee has been doing everything to advance a Norwee/Pine dichotomy to protect him.
The scariest thought I just had while assembling that list and thinking on why Norwee is defending Shea?
If he’s an Ascetic.
Jingle and I have been tossing around the setup trying to reverse engineer what the scum roles might be, and we’d considered a Ninja. It didn’t quite fit, too targeted and frankly not powerful enough. An Ascetic might do it, and would justify a sacrifice play.
“But Pine is changing his mind!”
Yeah, that’s what people in the uninformed minority do
“He’s setting up for a Townflip!”
Nnnnnope
“He’s justifying his failure to get results!”
It is something I’m worried about, yeah. I’m being treated as an existential threat by scum here, but I’m paranoid.
“How would he have such specific knowledge of the scum powers!”
I don’t, I’m guessing. It’s the kind of gaming out of a situation you do when you’re trying to solve a game and plan for the unknown
Just getting Norwee’s predictable objections out of the way
In post 4963, Ramcius wrote:You know, the more I think, the more things I can see that condemn FL:
1. Zor hammer after I said that zor was a bad flip - FL just wanted to get it done before someone unvoted and started discussion with me why zor is bad flip
2. I think some sr on me stems from idea that I knew Molla was JOAT, but it was FL who pointed out that Molla softed PR D1 at the start of D2 which helped me to make connection.Also, FL saying 3 JOAT D1 indicated that he anticipated another JOAT
3. FL claimed DEB knows how to read him, yet he didn't tried to force read out of DEB for 2 full day phases, even when he was in a heat of discussion with Norwee
Lastly, Pine is lock town for me, not just mechanically, but because his hard TR on me, he can't turn on me after miselim, he can't flip on FL either, so where he gets another miselim after TSQ/Norwee green flip? And I'm willing to accept fact that I may be wrong on Norwee, I might be just too biased towards him and it might cloud my judgement
1 is wrong, if I was scum, i could have just let DEB hammer like everyone expected him to.
2, yeah, Zoraster claimed JOAT, and BBmolla and I were dead on mindmelding Day 1 because we were coming from the exact same position.
3, i don’t push DEB to play like you guys, i also actively went after DEB for not town reading me at a specific point in the game.
I don’t know what’s up with FL here but I definitely think Ram is town and Pine’s plan is protown. I’m not sure if I should vote for Norwee or Shea yet but I have some paranoia that Norwee might actually know his alignment, since he seems to be beyond convinced that She’s flipping town.
FL suddenly wavering on his hard town Pine read, why?
I’m really paranoid that it might actually be FL/Norwee and prior to that I was going to post that it was likely a Norwee/Shea team but now I’m wondering if Math was actually right?
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We just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it. (I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~the worst
*******
Nancy is pretty heavenly ngl
~CheekyTeeky
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Nancy-scum feels like a hot knife slicing through butter. Nancy-town feels like a magnifying glass in the sun glaring down at an insect.
Mistyx - I suppose it’s possible you’re scum, but Vengeful would be a ridiculously reckless claim. You’ve also been playing D3 suspicious and Townie, and if I’m vexed by your conclusions you’re coming by then honestly.
Nancy Drew 39 - Town by play. If Nancy is scum here, she deserves the win.
Flavor Leaf - Has repeatedly Towntold. Has been logical and incisive, and has had even less patience for foolishness than I have. I think he’d be way more indulgent as scum, just from a meta perspective.
Pine - I’ve seen my role PM.
thestatusquo - Mostly PoE, supported by his manipulative gameplay and targeted flattery of some and as hom attacks on others.
Ramcius - Was high on my PoE list, but if you read his ISO from the point I suggested, I think it shows him Town.
NorwegianboyEE - Like 95% scum. Has been supporting and defending Shea for quite some time now with practically no Towncase on him.
Akarin - Town by role.
My read is that Shea is a PR and Norwee has been doing everything to advance a Norwee/Pine dichotomy to protect him.
Okay so
If Norwee is 95% scum
If shea is only scum by PoE
Then what if norwee is the 5%
If you think it can be Shea + someone who isn’t Norwee why can’t it be Norwee + that person
The fact that pine is at the same time making the argument that he and fl can't be scum together because they wouldn't leave all these associatives with each other because they're so good but simultaneously thinks me and norwee are such bad scum that our play would be just straight up hard defending each other is another example of what I think is a disingenuous argument from pine.
I don't believe he thinks this, because I don't know in what world two scum literally just tie each other together at end game like this.
It's another big part of why I think all these solves are not great. They involve the most surface level analysis of scum play that I've ever seen. Do we really think the only way scum interact with their partners is to hard defend them in this spot? An example of a pair I see getting disregarded is Ram-Me. Like, obviously I know that pair isn't real but scum can and do interact like Ram and I have to each other all the time.
Mistyx - I've pretty much strong town read mistyx since day 1 of this game, and I don't think the claim makes any sense as a fake claim. The only thing that gives me pause is its kind of out of place in the setup, and the reaction here of not flipping them gives the WIFOM justification for why scum would make this play. That's very tinfoil hat, though.
FL - I think theres a chance that FL is scum. I don't agree with Pine's justification of the FL read. I'll get to that more when I talk to pine. I think FL is most likely scum with Pine because of how he's interacted generally.
Nancy Drew - I think nancy is town based on her tonal reactions to being scum read. I've read some of nancy's scum games and she does some amount of this reaction to being scum read in those games but its tonally VERY different. I can provide examples if people want but I don't think this is a contentious point.
Akarin - Town by mech.
Ramcius - I think ramcius has played this game in a very scummy way. I don't think he was trying to find scum at any point. His play today in particular has been textbook "I am trying to find the easiest miselim." He literally said "I want to flip TSQ because its the elim the least people will object to." That's not scum hunting, that's scum miselim hunting.
Pine - I don't like the arguments pine is making. I think in particular claiming his role clears him is just emphatically wrong and Jingle and Pine should both know that. He's also lock town'd FL and hard defended him with I think little justification. If we look at his PoE post above we'll see the reason for town reading FL is actually incredibly weak. It's a minor meta point. He says he's "been town telling" but what town tells are those? I don't see them. I also don't think his play in any of the earlier game days had town motivation. He also does a very similar thing with ramcius. Apparently Ramcius is town for...some posts today? Ignoring the rest of the play and just like that with no further explanation? Ok. I didn't like the way he interacted with either of the day 1 or 2 wagons and I don't like how he's only now interacting with the game in a real way now that he's here. He also has a scum read on me which I think is way more pronounced than is justifies. He admits its only PoE which in no way justifies the amount of confidence he's shown in it. Town would want to evaluate more here and show more curiosity about whether they've been wrong or not, like nancy or akarin or misty has been doing. Pine is not doing that. He's just pushing on me with a level of certainty not justified by the fact that his read comes down to "idk poe" when his poe list as I've already explained, isn't very strong. I don't really feel the need to go in depth into the role because I feel like norwee has covered that in depth but I a) Don't think the role is real but b) if it is real I think it makes way more sense for the scum to have it in this setup than town. Even his attack on Norwee doesn't have a lot behind him. "95% scum" because he's supporting someone who is only there because of PoE? Ok, dude. That's a classic case of making your evidence fit your conclusions. If you're not scum, you need to reevaluate here because holy hell is that bad logic.
Norwee - I genuinely don't know what's the scum case on norwee. Pine says he's 95% scum but his reason for suggesting that does not in any way imply scum to me (it helps that I know I'm green.) I town read norwee because he's coming to a lot of the same conclusions I am this game, and I think his interactions with pine showcase genuine town frustration.
This leaves me with a PoE of (pine, ramcius, FL) in order of preference. Then after that I would be willing to elim mistyx because I trust if she's town (the most likely) her vig shot will be better than this town being led by pine. After that I would eliminate norwee if its him or me. I'd vote no elim before eliminating nancy or akarin.
