TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[innocentvillager]

sure a50 might have dumbtold but the insistence at some point just cant be real right

why not? at what point was did it not feel real? you mentioned he was trolling, why was it trolling?

I actually can see how someone might glaze over the "14 town 4 mafia" quote quickly and not realize that implies no SK, even if it seems too dense to be a thing

doesn't mean A50 is dumb, we all make mistakes I'd probably do something dumb like that too

[innocentvillager]

purely imo, ive also found town dumbtell more often than scum because the common attitude towards dumbtells are "nah, don't fake dumbtells it's scummy" and they don't often get actually townread

i don't believe A50 tries to fake a dumbtell here like this

and no i do not have a research paper as a source or anything other than my limited anecdotal experience so take it for what you will (fine if it's nothing)

[innocentvillager]

@a50 do you believe there is a chance of an sk?

As I said, it's 90% a Vig vs 10% SK to me. If it ain't banned by the rules it is still possible. It's just improbable.

Where in the mod provided number of 14 town would you slot the SK?

OK, so it's confirmed there's no SK in this game. We just had a bad Vig shot, and I am recommending they stop shooting TPRs.

i thought he admitted it here

[innocentvillager]

so why is a50 still voting ythan?

idk he hasn't addressed it, let's wait for his response I guess? he's made 3 posts since his realization

iirc A50 isn't like, super intentional and urgent with his vote necessarily

maybe slightly +scum as you said but I don't know if it's that strong for me. why is this that scum!indicative? you think town!A50 necessarily immediately unvotes just from that?

[innocentvillager]

he was also pretty parked on Ythan all of yesterday and didn't come back to vote DGB/LLD, so I don't see why town!A50 necessarily feels that much urgency to move his vote

[innocentvillager]

Does it matter whether he dumbtold or not when it's about whether a third party role can be in the game?

yes because they have probably talked about the vig in the scum PT

to which A50 probably would've been like, "how do you know there's no SK?"

and his partners would've pointed it out to him

it is potentially possible the Ythan/A50 interaction just happened first temporally, so I'm not that sure

[innocentvillager]

he was also pretty parked on Ythan all of yesterday

don't want to misrep, he parked on Ythan the last few days of D1

[innocentvillager]

meh he voted ythan to compromise or something

also he didnt open with a ythan vote he waited and used ioa

idk dude it doesnt make sense

i scumread both, my reaction is ????????????????????????????????????????????

let's just wait for

@A50

to talk in depth about his Ythan read, it's probably not productive for me to defend him like this

i do think i see where you are coming from

[innocentvillager]

I list all possible formations of a 4-members scum team

right here

[innocentvillager]

if you are talking to me iv im asking him why he knows that the scum team is 4 members when he didnt know that there wasnt an sk

yeah I thought Ythan was asking where A50 was being sure of 4 scum so I just quoted it for him. could've misunderstood

[innocentvillager]

if anyone wants to start a new conversation? why is cephrir town

[innocentvillager]

nah we aren't going to discuss that

lol why not

Is it like, so bleedingly obvious that I just can’t see it and a lot of others can? If that’s the case I want to know

I don’t know if he’s scummy this game, I just can’t really get a read on him, maybe it’s just his style

[innocentvillager]

if anyone wants to start a new conversation? why is cephrir town

Ur like a broken record

I am, have people been explaining why you’re town and I’ve missed all the replies? sorry if so

[innocentvillager]

okay fine I won’t bring him up for rest of day unless I see something actually pingy from him

I’ll just put him in my “sort later” pile I guess

[innocentvillager]

hello mastina welcome back

[innocentvillager]

the comment about us us having 10-20% chance of flipping scum when we were that close to deadline felt annoying

Before I forget this is was a townie reaction to me

I think this further supports the headspace that oka was in at the time, trying to corral the town into doing something productive and genuinely thinking there was a good chance to hit scum in DGB

It makes sense that he got “annoyed” at my comment, and I think the wording here being specifically that is better than something generic like “weird”

[innocentvillager]

i don't know if I have a strong opinion on A50 v Ythan with Oka interspersed in there, if anyone else does id be interested

it's hard for me to divine alignment from these kinds of 1v1s

[innocentvillager]

IV, what do you think of my points against Titus?

Luca can you quote your Titus points for me?

[innocentvillager]

I don't think Mastina's meta statements were vague. They were at the start, but she later explained it as well as could be done imo.

They weren't that vague I agree but I don't mind the wording here, Titus has expressed why she doesn't like mastina's case mastina herself even admitted it's not really a case yet:

Spoiler: Titus's problems with mastina's case as I understand it

(Btw this is more in line with Titus being a town mediator--it's lower-effort than her normal town mediator, but there is a notable marked difference between her mediating that game and this game.)


I could go on and point out more of the town posting from Titus that game, but basically--I could instantly tell that Titus was town that game from posts like the above. It immediately was her as I know her. Lower-effort than previous eras of Titus, but still very obviously her as town.

This game she isn't that at all.

Mastina quotes a series of posts from another game above this. What she doesn't do is state the difference. It's a long spammy version of meta and hoping people fill in the details.

Yo Mastina
Read this game regarding Titus

Are you...trying to prove my point in regards to Titus???

Because that game is immediately obviously Titus-town. It's her towngame immediately and transparently so, and I can point to the town factors that make her town which are utterly absent from this game.

Mastina basically says that there's certain things that made me obvious town but doesn't mention them.

It's another fill in the gaps post by mastina.

Mastina is literally just spamming and hoping you fill in the blanks rather than engage my content, probably because it's right.

Mastina's whole posting is mentioning various factors exist to determine Titus town from Titus scum and that I am not doing those things. It's an outright lie which is why she never details the factors. The closest she comes is quoting posts from another game and leaving people to draw their own conclusions.

Yes, you could argue the origins of Titus' scumread of Mastina go back to D1 which makes it not preemptive, but the origins of that SR aren't exactly pure as I highlighted earlier.

would you be willing to re-highlight this for me?

[innocentvillager]

^ It's hard for everyone.

Job training for a month, 6 hours a day everyday. I'm not sure how it will effect activity besides negatively.

VOTE: Luca

No, you were pretty clear that you were covering old ground. You've had a small burst to activity but the takes are lukewarm.

Bell humor me for a second, what do Datisi and lilith2013 think of me rn lol

don't ask them if they haven't given an opinion already, probably not that productive, i'm just curious

[innocentvillager]

I think the obvious answer is that he's attacking whoever pays attention to him.

The irony.

Ythan is enjoying taking refuge in logic against an illogical player. It's not a town trait, nor is the fact that this is the one thing he's able to post about, and I'm disappointed in oka for following it.

i kinda like this take tbh

[innocentvillager]

I've finally found some time to spend on Titus v Mastina, and I'm reminded of why I SR Titus in the first place:

So, my question is how do I fix LLD v DGB when LLD is largely checked out...

Hmm

VOTE: the worst

Mastina, help me bus worst.

Mastina, help me bus worst.

The problem is that worstie's the scumread of mine most likely to be wrong.

Doubly so IF LLD were town; the worst's chances of being town go UP with LLD town, rather than down.

mastina's scum with TW. The moment I ask her to lim a scumread, she backs off the scumread.

This seems like such a dishonest progression from Titus, and basically seemed like entrapment. Mastina had already stated before this that she was least sure of tw out of her SR's, so it doesn't feel like a justified conclusion to draw and instead comes across as manipulative.

That said, I can sympathize a bit more with Titus in regards to Mastina's push on her, which up until this point had been heavily emphasized but largely unexplained.

if Titus didn't already knew that mastina had worsty as a light scumread then it seems like a reasonable statement to make? albeit it feels tunnelly and not well justified but apparently that's not as AI as I thought for Titus

if Titus did know mastina wasn't confident on the worst (ik mastina did mention it but I think Titus could've missed it/glazed over it?) I agree that this progression feels like it could be in bad faith

[innocentvillager]

i think the average person in general has way bigger egos than we might think, online anonymous mafia just happens to be a good activity that draws egos out lol

[innocentvillager]

IV's a bit of an oddity; he preferred Titus yesterday, did take stances, but didn't think a scum flip was likely.

i feel like i at least low-confidence called it TvT yesterday, does that give me scumpoints lol, or am i just too towny otherwise ;P

so mastina you think it's Ythan/Titus scumpair?

[innocentvillager]

meh, I don't mind mastina's Titus case, it seems reasonable (but im biased because i also have Titus as a scum-candidate)

main thing making me skeptical is I don't know how much cherrypicking mastina did, and im a bit too lazy to go through all the games/isos myself to see if i get the same impression

i agree it's kind of bizarre to think that Titus faked the babysitter visit claim, regardless of the basal probability of there being repeat Announcing modifiers

At some point you have to bayesian update a little

[innocentvillager]

the vig did shoot DGB so my expectations of them aren't tremendously high

how do you know it wasn't a SK?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Titus i like this better than jjh at least

[innocentvillager]

I know you did just make a gigantic scumcase on Titus but I now chumread her

why? just because mastina posited scum!Titus lied about the babysitter visiting her?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Titus i like this better than jjh at least

And your thoughts on Ythan?

would probably wagon there too at this point

[innocentvillager]

I know you did just make a gigantic scumcase on Titus but I now chumread her

why? just because mastina posited scum!Titus lied about the babysitter visiting her?

Why would I ever go along with a proposition that gets me limmed at massclaim?

i don't think you lied if that wasn't clear, and i don't think it's AI either

[innocentvillager]

This makes me want to rethink Bell too.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck did I really just spend...

Literally four to five hours casing Titus.

Only to want to instead do this and give her a chance?

VOTE: Bell

I'm not sure whether I'll hate myself more if Titus is scum and I'm doing this now, or if Titus is town and I'm only now doing this.

why did that one statement from Titus make you rethink your 4-5 hours on casing her?

[innocentvillager]

what the fuck

[innocentvillager]

Haha

[innocentvillager]

I’d rather not vote for my partner :/

[innocentvillager]

I was against A50 fakeclaiming, for the record

[innocentvillager]

hmmmmm

[innocentvillager]

Titus said not one, but two, things that I happen to agree with: Hopkirk is just town whenever he posts, and Dannflor was suspicious of Bell at end of day when Bell's posts have been incredibly lackluster.

If you read my Titus case, do you remember what I said?
"When Titus and I agree on something, it is an incredibly promising sign for her being town. Sadly, a lack of agreement isn't alignment indicative", or something like that.

Prior to those two posts, Titus and I were not agreeing on literally anything--not a scumtell, but an absence of a strong towntell.

Those two posts have Titus and I having common ground--not absolute proof of the strong towntell, but potentially an indicator OF it.

In short: Titus and I mindmelding means that Titus is town. Titus hasn't approached full mindmeld territory, but she posted things that COULD be indicative of the start of a mindmeld--that's enough for me to have some benefit of the doubt, to second-guess my Titus case in favor of voting a common scumread in Bell.

"When Titus and I agree on something, it is an incredibly promising sign for her being town. Sadly, a lack of agreement isn't alignment indicative", or something like that.
this seems a bit flawed imo

you either agree on something, or you don't agree on anything

if the first one is town!indicative, the second one HAS to be scum!indicative, because as I understand it those are the only two possibilities

there's gotta be some inbetween where you don't agree not many things, which is NAI

this whole game, you have both spouted many, many opinions

and now you agree on TWO things and that's enough to give you massive pause? what do you think the chance is that scum!Titus "disagrees" with you on EVERYTHING is, or even the chance that a random person disagrees with you on everything? imo, not very high

[innocentvillager]

^ It's hard for everyone.

Job training for a month, 6 hours a day everyday. I'm not sure how it will effect activity besides negatively.

VOTE: Luca

No, you were pretty clear that you were covering old ground. You've had a small burst to activity but the takes are lukewarm.

Bell humor me for a second, what do Datisi and lilith2013 think of me rn lol

don't ask them if they haven't given an opinion already, probably not that productive, i'm just curious

Lilith says they're scum reading you, they feel your reaction to the beginning of the day in response to Dunnstrall was really weird and they don't think you're as obvtown as you made yourself out to be.
Lilith felt D1 you played up the cute and clueless angle as (duck?) liked to put it. They're conflicted on whether they just don't like your playstyle, they think in a vacuum without a previous game they'd lean that you were more likely scum than town and felt you're more force/anxious here than you were in the previous game.

Datasi is playing a videogame.

huh, im surprised liliith has that recent of an opinion of me. did she give you these thoughts unprompted earlier or did you just ask her when i posted this?

meh, idk how I feel about lilith's read on me, either way it's not full-effort lilith so i don't know if this makes me feel better or worse about you

idk, it's just weird that I still don't have much other than a weak lean-town on you at this point Bell when I normally would've expected to get some obvtown vibes from you, is there anything that you feel you're doing differently from past towngames we've played? (e.g. N2017, Illicit, N2023)

[innocentvillager]

I'm still suspicious of jjh but I'm willing to sheep Mastina's meta read on him for now

why do you put so much stock into mastina's completely unexplained meta read here?

[innocentvillager]

i just don't understand why you're okay "sheeping Mastina's meta read on him for now" though

[innocentvillager]

lol can you just explain why you said "I'm willing to Mastina's meta read on him for now"

also, ive noticed your team has been fairly absent from this game more than I'd expect? is this an intentional choice on your teams part?1

[innocentvillager]

huh, that explanation actually makes a lot more sense than i thought it was going to make, thanks

and no not specifically, i was just wondering in general how your team dynamics are. if it's intentionally just a "we'll give opinions if you ask" attitude then fine

[innocentvillager]

fwiw, i think your response here is likely to be anti-indicative of a town!jjh scum!Luca world, because I don't think you would back off a town wagon candidate like that without using it as a posture-excuse to look towny (i had to interrogate the reasoning out of you rather than you presenting it yourself to look towny)

it suggests to me that you're more likely to be town genuinely trying to sort jjh using a variety of different inputs (such as looking at players like mastina's strengths, memory for meta in this case), or you're scum opportunistically moving off your buddy

[innocentvillager]

Joq replaced into another game and didn't want any opinions etc while catching up in order to get a fresh view of the game, and it worked well, so they suggested I should do the same.

did they specifically say "while catching up"? because you've been caught up for a while right?

[innocentvillager]

we already know LLD and DGB were town so something something gamblers fallacy

also, the basal probability of 5 random people being town is about 23%, which isn't that low, and that's not accounting for the 2 confirmed townflips we have

[innocentvillager]

i mean, if townies had completely random reads, it probably WOULD be more likely that 5 wagons land on 5 townies because scum can influence the wagons away from each other

so there's probably a point if townies have like X% marginally better reads than random for which 23% is a reasonable number

but we're off topic lol regardless of the actual rate all im trying to say that it's well within a reasonable distribution that we wagoned 5 town players yesterday and that we shouldn't just assume 1+ scum in Ythan/Titus/Luca

[innocentvillager]

you either agree on something, or you don't agree on anything
if the first one is town!indicative, the second one HAS to be scum!indicative, because as I understand it those are the only two possibilities

No?

When Titus and I are town, we can both have a lack of agreement.
When Titus and I are of opposite alignments, we WILL have a lack of agreement.
When Titus and I are town, we can both have agreement.

Those are the three possibilities.
There's no way to distinguish the first from the second. When there's a lack of agreement, it could be Titus town or Titus scum.
But because when Titus and I are different alignments, we usually don't have agreement, the presence of agreement is a good indicator of Titus being town.

i think im thinking about this more probabilistically because that's just how i think about things, for better or worse.

very briefly, assuming those 3 statements are the true possibilities (im skeptical of this but whatever, i can accept that there's some correlation with how much you "agree" and Titus's alignment), if you only told me Titus and you lack agreement this game, my probability for Titus being scum increases, because we know the 3rd scenario is not possible-so I'd call you two lacking agreement scum-indicative.

probably not worth getting into further

this whole game, you have both spouted many, many opinions

Yes, and the whole time they were polar opposites, until now.

So yes--two things in common IS enough to give massive pause.

It's a part of the Titus-mastina dynamic.
Yes, Titus can agree with something I've said--but coming to the same conclusion as me without me having said it first is where the importance is.

It's a bit hard to explain, but genuinely, two posts is enough to give hesitance on Titus.
It's not enough for a full reversal because the full synergy isn't there in full effect.

i still think if you had a random person bullshitting opinions (yes, even before you say anything), they would happen to align with yours a semi significant amount of the time, which is why i feel that 2 out of like, many many opinions, is very small comparatively

i guess I'm just seeing you go from "hard scumread" to "null-conflicted" on Titus over something statistically not that improbable, so I worry that you're writing her off too early. like you had quite a few unrelated reasons that she was scum that actually weren't unreasonable imo (unless they were severely cherry-picked posts) so I just feel like this seems like a little dramatic to me. idk, maybe some anti-tunnelling skepticism is good tho

[innocentvillager]

ngl i just quick skimmed, will want to talk about some stuff later here but uhh let's just say the university of zoom is kicking my ass

bell improving

Can you talk me through your read progression on Bell?

ducky lurky and ducky not play game -> i am sus -> he vlas -> less sus -> comes back and still doesn't play -> resus -> subs out -> less sus -> bell subs in and is scummy -> am sus -> today bell starts asking questions that look like sorting -> less sus

oka can you talk about why you backed off Ythan yesterday if you haven't already (feel free to quote if you did)? i remember engaging you on Ythan, not feeling like I convinced you of anything, and then you switched to dgb after being conflicted anyway

[innocentvillager]

Ceph is pinging me today. I feel as though he's following the path of least resistance rather than genuinely trying to solve the game.

:shrug:

there are like 5 people i want to make dead and i feel like i need some scum flips to get a sense of what's actually going on

which 5 again?

[innocentvillager]

Well I'm exhausted and going to bed. But it looks like A50 fake claimed a guilty on Ythan?

Okay. But y tho?
A50/Ythan weird scum gambit maybe?

Yep, I got a headache thinking about the motivations for each possible combination. It feels dumb.

If you even wanted to entertain that he would go first.

I'm aware.

@Ythan these posts are townie from Bell because you think he genuinely missed the whole debacle?

[innocentvillager]

im so confused i have no idea what Ythan or Oka are talking about goddammit am i just a fucking idiot

[innocentvillager]

i understand there are two separate things that have flown far over my head and i would like to start by figuring out at least one of them

[innocentvillager]

nope im still confused on the ythan thing

don't tell me i guess ill keep trying? seems like bell figured it out pretty quickly?

[innocentvillager]

I’d rather not vote for my partner :/

If it's just this, I don't really care about it

its not this that was just me shitposting

apparently there was some 5d chess going on while i was shitposting that I still have not figured out

[innocentvillager]

im picking up on some things as a hypothesis but the whole thing is not at all clear in my mind

[innocentvillager]

let's keep being confusing and have a conversation that everyone but ceph understands

no i am still basically on your level, which like a small dumb guess that im not remotely convinced of

im still rereading

[innocentvillager]

I’d rather not vote for my partner :/

If it's just this, I don't really care about it

its not this that was just me shitposting

apparently there was some 5d chess going on while i was shitposting that I still have not figured out

Are you saying that 4054 is a shitpost.

did you think it was something other than shitpost?

i don't even know what the right answer to this question is anymore

[innocentvillager]

what the fuck did i fuck something up? im so confused

[innocentvillager]

?????????????????????? what in the living fuck is going on

[innocentvillager]

i dont even know if i want to know what the fuck is going on

[innocentvillager]

should i just stop posting?

[innocentvillager]

oh no, im busy! got to go, haha

[innocentvillager]

Iconeum read some of the 161-173 debacle:

Ythan town
A50 +town
Mastina +town
Bell +scum, he hates 4074

[innocentvillager]

im picking up on some things as a hypothesis but the whole thing is not at all clear in my mind

Lol this hypothesis was that A50 was a babysitter and I thought y’all were talking about that but I couldn’t for the life of me figure out why you were all so confident.

[innocentvillager]

i think the g a l a x y b r a i n play here is a50 targets the vigilante and the vigilante shoots a50

[innocentvillager]

[*]innocentvillager, Gun-to-head this is Town. I just wish I knew what Scum!IV looks like first hand

time for some self scum!innocentvillager meta:

Open 734 Paris we were in this together man , i just lurked the game out

honestly that is some outdated shit tho. If you want to see the game why lilith is paranoid (or faking it) about me, this is it, I was trying really fucking hard to expand my scumrange/play to my town meta for whatever reason and i was sad about it for most of the game. In hindsight it's just a lot of surface level self-conscious recycled shit: Mini Normal 2160

this is my most recent one: Mini Normal 2175 i kinda just let my partner do all the work. note that i posted way more in scum PT than in main thread because 2160 traumatized me

[innocentvillager]

But this probably makes Oka Town too

why?

[innocentvillager]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=85191&user_select% ... &start=200

oh jesus, i haven't even skimmed this iso but it's not making me feel better about you

[innocentvillager]

I am thinking scum are not bussing atm. They may not even be distancing. I also need to hard reset this game.

is chennis still sold on jjh town?

[innocentvillager]

i feel better about A50 being town than most of Oka's list tbh

also, Gypyx and Iconeum both agree with me that he's town

[innocentvillager]

can we all be friends and rate my towncore

me, dunn, agar, ceph, iv, xtoxm, ythan

to be clear on how i feel atm:

okapoka - maybe
dunn - sure
agar - maybe
ceph - ehhh
iv - absolutely not.
xtoxm - maybe
ythan - yes

[innocentvillager]

But this probably makes Oka Town too

why?

His Town block would indeed be all Town with the exception of AGar. Note that I didn't say confirmed/100%, but it does make him most likely Town.

even assuming your reads are like, ungodly accurate on everyone else, if oka and agar are scum then oka's 7 person "townblock" contains 2 scum, which is a higher density of scum than outside the townblock

[innocentvillager]

can someone remind me of the case on Luca?

[innocentvillager]

They stalled on giving out reads.

this is the only thing I might care about

That and the LLD I put a small amount of stock into

[innocentvillager]

oh lol

[innocentvillager]

meh they were in my PoE anyway

probably would’ve sheeped it at some point

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: jjh

[innocentvillager]

Luca's posting on D2 makes me want to re-add the slot there as well and it's good to know I'm not alone in continuing my townread there, soooooo:

lol mastina you added them to your straight up townbloc here too

who else did you think was townreading Luca's D2 posting besides you?

[innocentvillager]

im also confused at why Luca self-hammered instead of tried to claim some random PR

[innocentvillager]

here were some of my thoughts overnight

sus on people who joined on LLD right after scum!hercule/Luca was ran up (LLD was pushing hercule early D1)

Lady Lambdadelta

(6):

DrippingGoofball

,

hercule

, Hopkirk,

innocentvillager

, Xtoxm, mastina

probably scum in Hopkirk/xtoxm/mastina bc innocentvillager isn’t scum
scum in ceph agar Oka mastina because of one of Luca’s town lists (don’t think it would be all town)
agar, Titus don’t seem super partnery with Luca
the way Luca talks throughout about Titus in the iso is kinda slimy
I forget why with agar
still thought the excuse to move off jjh was not scum!luca town!jjh indicative
because the excuse was kinda bad based on mastina’s “memory for meta” could’ve been a bullshit excuse
so I’m thinking jjh scum

I’m wondering why Luca self hammered??
Definitely could’ve faked a pr at least
was this a whole scumteam decision or was he just like fuck this game? maybe he has good amtiassociatices with his team?? idk

[innocentvillager]

(It helps Hercule's entrance was garbage, but honestly I was just waiting to Mastina to post one of these lists so I can do my standard Mastina play which is just to eliminate players in inverse order of her preference.)

It wins the game more than it loses the game, and that's a fact.

Also, lmao.

lol i think you need a very big sample size to determine that you should eliminate someone's reads in inverse order. maybe LLD has an unbiased big one, maybe she's availability biased, idk. Same argument for someone with anecdotally good reads imo. we can all have shit reads and great reads some games

[innocentvillager]

probably scum in Hopkirk/xtoxm/mastina bc innocentvillager isn’t scum

i'll be more interested on the first point if you can find an issue to take with how they interacted around the wagon/their votes specifically

but that was my "first point" lol, the people who jumped onto LLD after hercule got flashwagoned is a little suspicious, which implicates {Hopkirk/xtoxm/mastina/innocentvillager}

you don't think out of hercule's 3 buddies, at least one of them would help try to chainsaw LLD?

idk, Titus is gone so I offered a bit of my own 1st time VCA

it is true that it's probably prudent to go reread the actual posts

[innocentvillager]

Right now I believe the following players are Town:

IV
Mastina
Ceph
Poka
A50
AGar

Town:

Mastina, IV, Agar, A50, Poka, Dunnstral, Xtoxm, Ceph

PoE:

Bell, Titus, Ythan, Hopkirk, Winter Flakes, jjh

idk, i still think it's very unlikely that Luca literally puts his 3 buddies in the PoE, his posting style was stilted enough that it doesn't seem like he would do some crazy wifom move

[innocentvillager]

i cant imagine a scum team that agreed to a self hammer..even in a bussing situation. scum teams ive been in have always been very resistant to the idea, myself included, outside of niche scenarios such as guiltied scum wanting to cut off discussion/night action planning. im positive it was an individual decision. maybe he was annoyed at his teammates for some reason, or just the game in general.

this is kind of what i was thinking

he'd have to be so distanced from his scumteam for them to even consider it I think?? and the only person i can kind of think of that he might be distanced from is... Titus? maybe?

[innocentvillager]

@A50 did you think Dunnstral was the vig? i wonder if scum was expecting to have a shot at hitting vig or if they killed Dunn more for his reads

[innocentvillager]

here are some of dunn's most recent reads? i don't think he was particularly against or for anyone, so yeah probably was not killed for his stellar reads?

agree with Xtoxm that priority was a 1) TPR read and it's just a bonus that his a) reads weren't terrible b) was pretty townread

can we all be friends and rate my towncore

me, dunn, agar, ceph, iv, xtoxm, ythan

add a couple more names collectively and then i really dont care who we kill as long as we just start chaining down the list

Sure, I'm fine with this.

Dunn do you have any other thoughts?

I don't... really want to kill ythan or a50 right now, but I don't know where scum is.

Unrelated I feel like I need to, like, recalibrate, refocus, figure out where I'm going.

I think voting for jjh would still be ~okay~

So despite my post at the start of the day, I can see reasons for a lot of people being town

[innocentvillager]

probably scum in Hopkirk/xtoxm/mastina bc innocentvillager isn’t scum

i'll be more interested on the first point if you can find an issue to take with how they interacted around the wagon/their votes specifically

but that was my "first point" lol, the people who jumped onto LLD after hercule got flashwagoned is a little suspicious, which implicates {Hopkirk/xtoxm/mastina/innocentvillager}

you don't think out of hercule's 3 buddies, at least one of them would help try to chainsaw LLD?

idk, Titus is gone so I offered a bit of my own 1st time VCA

it is true that it's probably prudent to go reread the actual posts

it is literally impossible to convince me of anything just by staring at votecounts until a conclusion comes out. I simply don't believe that scum necessarily vote in any particular way in relation to each other, the entire idea is sheer wifom. If their posts look like a chainsaw to you, or maybe their votes don't match up with their stances or something, that's more interesting to me.

i mean, i think i agree to a point

i think in the obvious surface-level ways, scum might wifom

but like, with that logic you could dismiss a lot of things off as wifom? i guess, my thought process here is, im trying to look for the most reasonably probable conclusion based on what's going on. if I think scum's direct goal to wincon involves doing X (in this case, chainsawing LLD to relieve pressure on hercule), i think scum are simply more likely to do X

like just asking "what do scum want to do here (when scum!hercule gets run up)?" then going: "okay scum want to relieve pressure there. how?" then going: "let's actively try and get a chainsaw going (the more straightforward scenario)" or "hmm, townies are already going after LLD, we'd do better to just wait and stay off the wagons for VCA purposes (the wifom scenario)"

i think there's a good chance that this is what the team was thinking at the time. GTH the latter isn't as likely because scum have incentive to run up LLD as big as possible and there's not a huge cost to placing down a flashwagon vote (we saw how quickly the flashwagons came and went in the first game)

if we can establish that that's what the scumteam wants to do then that's scum!indicative for whoever's doing that. It's definitely not a case, but it's a factor

i will admit that "one scum in {x/y/z}" based on this is probably not as close to like 90%+ likelihood as I thought but it's still something i think is relevant from a probability perspective. And I know you're more interested in the "which posts look like a chainsaw" and I totally agree that is useful if we could differentiate? but i also feel like that is kind of difficult? im not really sure how a vote that's intended to add chainsaw pressure is that different from a vote from suspicion or just "wanting something to happen"

[innocentvillager]

isn't the idea that he wouldn't just as wifom?

i don't personally think that scum sit down when making a scumlist like this and go "okay, where should i strategically place my buddies." i think they slot them in wherever they honestly think makes the most sense. plus, luca's eod posts show he is no stranger to intentional wifom.

adding onto the wifom discussion, i think, in a 15p game, you would see that your readslist has all of your buddies in a *kind of consensus* PoE and be like "wait, if all my buddies are in here i can't think of more excuses to vote townies", and that would give you pause, you'd try to fake a townlean on at least one of your buddies

which is partly why I think his excuse to move off of jjh is +scum for jjh given Luca was scum

i agree with the EoD thing that he can wifom but I think EoD lolselfhammer posting is very different from his readslists at the stage I quoted them at, when he was in the PoE but not really an immediate wagon candidate

[innocentvillager]

as i typed this I realized I'm not going to convince you (Ceph) of anything, especially because you've convinced me there's more wifom here than im considering, but also that what im arguing for isn't even that statistically unlikely in a world where my reads are totally random anyway

[innocentvillager]

what is the rule of three that you're referring to?

[innocentvillager]

interesting, thanks.

Right now I believe the following players are Town:

IV
Mastina
Ceph
Poka
A50
AGar

Town:

Mastina, IV, Agar, A50, Poka, Dunnstral, Xtoxm, Ceph

PoE:

Bell, Titus, Ythan, Hopkirk, Winter Flakes, jjh

idk, i still think it's very unlikely that Luca literally puts his 3 buddies in the PoE, his posting style was stilted enough that it doesn't seem like he would do some crazy wifom move

so like how about 6 or 8? is Luca so fucking ballsy that he would pull all his consensus PoE-potential buddies in the PoE?

[innocentvillager]

maybe, it's true that the decision to self hammer could've been inspired as some sort of yolo-high variance play (although that's not the thing I would've expected/more just feels like a "eh it's not worth fighting the elim and im V/LA anyway" thing? but if it is then im just falling into his hands wifoming myself over it )

that's just not the vibe I got at all from his rest of game posting, it felt kind of stilted and mechanical at times which gave me the impression that he isn't really a "high variance" yolo scum player. but that's just based on my arbitrary feels so who knows

[innocentvillager]

im not really sure why people strongly TR'd Hopkirk at all, maybe someone can enlighten me there

Hopkirk doesn't post much compared to the rest of the game, but I just feel he's town when he does post.

that overrides this?

pedit: oh lol okay so it's just wagon positioning. what about the later votes like Xtoxm, mastina, why specifically the third and fourth vote

Lady Lambdadelta (6): DrippingGoofball, hercule, Hopkirk, innocentvillager, Xtoxm, mastina

[innocentvillager]

and IV too

why was Hopkirk the main fos in your mind then I was an afterthought? is there something different about our votes?

[innocentvillager]

okay thanks that's fine, I'll await your full VCs when you have more time

for now I'm just curious why was Hopkirk your first FoS

then 34 seconds later, you decided that I was also suspicious

i just want to know what the gut instinct thought process was there when you first saw those VCs

[innocentvillager]

ugh

im wondering if Luca flipping is supposed to make Titus look better and that was his intentional distance

i think i might be chucking Titus back in my nullpile

[innocentvillager]

Ythan and A50 are my only TRs and no one even comes close to 3rd place anymore :/

[innocentvillager]

btw if anyone still thinks i might be scum check out how much i appear in this iso (it's a lot) and what's being done (shading and discrediting me)

i feel like you have gotten very few votes this game so i don't know how much stock i put into this especially early on when scum can do like whatever i guess

if you were a serious wagon candidate id probably put more stock into it

[innocentvillager]

@A50 did you think Dunnstral was the vig? i wonder if scum was expecting to have a shot at hitting vig or if they killed Dunn more for his reads

IV, there were literally only two people who would've shot DGB N1: Cephrir or Dunnstral. Literally NOBODY else in the game was EVER making a N1 DGB shot. Scum had a reasonably good 50/50 guess there. Now admittedly, I actually thought it was Cephrir due to Dunnstral's D2 opener, but it should be no surprise that when literally only two players were adamant DGB was scum and DGB was vigged, that one of them is the vig and that the scum were smart enough to figure it out.

I said that once Almost50 claimed, the town's power roles were, unfortunately, probably all exposed, and I did so for good reason.

this is a lot of confidence lmao

i had AGar, Bell, and Oka in that potential pool too

[innocentvillager]

meh, i guess if you matched their stated reads in the thread with their vig shot and assumed nothing changed when LLD flipped overnight, you can kind of eliminate Bell and AGar (i kept my pool wide and clearly didn't do very careful vig hunting) okay i guess it's not unreasonable

[innocentvillager]

let's flip jjh then

[innocentvillager]

Ah yes, more scum posting from Hopkirk.

you know someone's gonna ask why

[innocentvillager]

lmao sample size is tiny enough here that i don't think people who were less right have to do a massive overhaul of everything and people who were more right get to pat themselves on the back and not re-evaluate anything

[innocentvillager]

except this isnt a dice game where each roll is independent from each other

not saying ur garbage

unless there's strong reason to believe reads are severely positively correlated i don't feel it's that different

imo the onus is on you to prove that if you're going to shade people for not 180'ing their reads when they have some wrong reads

[innocentvillager]

i think the "their flipped reads were shit so the rest of their reads are shit" and vice-versa argument is used way too often and without good justification

[innocentvillager]

okay

d1

hop says lld wagon core is all gucci

d2

after lld flips town, hop says lld wagon core is all gucci

d3

herc, part of the lld cuties has flipped scum, he says the lld wagon core is all gucci

i mean

is this a realistic thought process from town

double double down

hm this is interesting and id be curious to hear from Hop

[innocentvillager]

that's fair i think

[innocentvillager]

do you think Oka is intentionally framing it in a way to make you look bad or unintentionally so while genuinely trying to figure out your thought process?

the way he worded it just then made it look kind of incongruent for you which is why i was extra curious but then when you said it had nothing to do with them being on the wagon I guess that just... makes sense

[innocentvillager]

just throwing this idea out there

maybe the only people townreading luca by eod2 was scum so scum just cut there losses

because this is asinine

i distinctly remember lld core townreading each other for pushing lld together, but now the argument is they are town independent of lld push?

last line now it makes sense why you framed it that way i guess

and what's asinine?

[innocentvillager]

Also like, mastina thinking someone is town isn't actually a good reason to elim them that's just a meme.

lol thank you

[innocentvillager]

okapoka yells at infinity to ping Winter on discord to get Winter to move his vote, then this sequence of posts happens

I am here

what are the options? lld dgb and ythan?

I dont really like either of those options but if lld green flips we get more info I think is she at L-1?

this came at the same time, then there was a 6 hr gap until this post:

I popped back in because Infinity pinged me on discord after Oka asked him to?

and then he finally votes dgb

this is not how a scum hydra handles this interaction, imo

So it seems people were not convinced from my Winter argument so I will try to explain myself little more and maybe people can tell me where they disagree. The crux of the Winter TL is that:

1) Infinity didn't really try to fill Winter in on why they were pinging him, based on Winter's entrance to the thread. I believe scum!Infinity would try to at least assess the situation based on it being EOD and potentially advise Winter what the optimal course of action would be to not look scummy, or tell him to not. Infinity has been helping out the team a lot in general so I would've expected something more thorough if Winter was scum here; rather, it felt like the focus was urgency of getting Winter in-thread

2) Winter immediately just posted "I am here", when he TOTALLY could've delayed it/pretended he hadn't seen it or Infinity hadn't pinged him yet when he had made up his mind or something. This is also indicative of (1) happening.

3) Winter looked like he was genuinely trying to process what was going on in real time (more evidence of (1) being the case), and instead of committing to something or "promising to commit to a vote", he just called both wagons meh and ducked out. I don't see scum Winter doing that, I could be totally off base here but the vibe I get from Winter as a player is that he is more self-conscious of how he is perceived in thread and that whole interaction definitely did not feel self-conscious at all

can someone debunk my reasoning for winter flakes being town for my sanity? i remembered this carrying a decent amt of weight for me in my TL of him but since then he still hasn't done much so i feel less inclined to defend him now, even though it overall seems like a town!indicative interaction

[innocentvillager]

I don't mind a jjh wagon but I don't feel comfortable voting with iv. :/

nonono need to be uncomfortable...ii am very comfortable...huehue

[innocentvillager]

Neapolitans are not "Vanilla Cops". Neapolitans can confirm someone to be Town, and precisely a Vanilla Townie.

imagine an announcing vanilla cop lol

as if vanilla cops weren't already useless enough

[innocentvillager]

i mean, you were correct on me being mason (with OkaPoka), just not that I claimed mason at the time you think I did

oka did you think i was claiming mason with A50 there too? lol

[innocentvillager]

is it anti town for you to explain what you thought was happening? if you don't think it is im curious bc it seemed like you were one of the people making me feel dumb for not knowing what was going on lol

[innocentvillager]

jjh is a really bad vote here and I'm basically hard-convinced he is town here. (Titus, I know you don't want to, but please trust me on this for now.)

ugh fucking MS deleted my post

ill just summarize what i typed: im not blind sheeping you here without reasoning sorry, i want to see something

i don't have great reasons for jjh scum so im open to moving off

no one has been able to explain why he's town (if im wrong please correct me)

he has maybe one redeeming quality i see which is a very weak tonal read that seems like he's trying to figure out what's going on but that could just be a playstyle thing

[innocentvillager]

im convinced

VOTE: agar[\vote]

is that a real vote

idk on AGar anymore either, he's back in my PoE, even though he's playing quite differently from his one recent scumgame and sort of being his town!tunnelly self i guess that just doesn't mean much

[innocentvillager]

I might be depressed.

Don't be surprised if I don't post tomorrow. I'm trying to sort that out.

X post all games.

:/ please take care of yourself Titus! mental health super important obviously moreso than this game and mafia can sometimes not help with that

[innocentvillager]

also moving tomorrow so won't be on much today/tomorrow, also was on less this week as you can see

[innocentvillager]

hi I’m here kinda

just moved in for the most part

no WiFi for now so data phone posting

[innocentvillager]

lmao so mastina is playing politics

jjh is at 2 votes and iv just expressed apprehension about keeping his vote there - are you really claiming this agar vote has anything to do with jjh's wagon?

in fact

i agree mastina isn't a political player

she's just open wolfing

VOTE: mastina
can you expand on this more? I’m dumb and can’t read between the lines
no shot she votes scumread no 3 and tries to disguise it using jjh especially at this stage

[innocentvillager]

when mastina says “AGar is an infinitesimally better elim than jjh” does she mean way better or barely better

I’m pretty sure it means the latter but that doesn’t square up with her stated reads really?

[innocentvillager]

oh wtf

@Oka I quoted those 3 and tried to ask you to expand on that bc I’m dumb and can’t read between the lines

[innocentvillager]

i feel like I can’t get inside AGar’s head so frankly I have no fucking idea how to read him at this point

hop seems convinced that the arguments are so wrong and twisted that they can’t be made in good faith ( I think)

I just tend to throw my hands up in the air when I can’t really get a grasp on their process and see it very nai but I’ll keep thinking I guess

[innocentvillager]

mastina I am gonna want to see some thoughts about the jjh wagon when you have time if you haven’t already given thme

[innocentvillager]

specifically reasons on town him lol bc again no one has been able to provide

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Jjh I am deathtunneling mastina for the rest of the game if jjh is town and I don’t think I’ll care if she’s town

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE: Jjh

*if jjh is scum typo

[innocentvillager]

Speaking of, who'd you target last night, scum? Not sure why we're just letting your ass slide by like a greased sled.

Why do you want to know? Anyway, I am not claiming my target, but they can feel free to claim I visited them if they want to.

This is a S C U M reply.

why are you so sure?

[innocentvillager]

okapoka yells at infinity to ping Winter on discord to get Winter to move his vote, then this sequence of posts happens

I am here

what are the options? lld dgb and ythan?

I dont really like either of those options but if lld green flips we get more info I think is she at L-1?

this came at the same time, then there was a 6 hr gap until this post:

I popped back in because Infinity pinged me on discord after Oka asked him to?

and then he finally votes dgb

this is not how a scum hydra handles this interaction, imo

So it seems people were not convinced from my Winter argument so I will try to explain myself little more and maybe people can tell me where they disagree. The crux of the Winter TL is that:

1) Infinity didn't really try to fill Winter in on why they were pinging him, based on Winter's entrance to the thread. I believe scum!Infinity would try to at least assess the situation based on it being EOD and potentially advise Winter what the optimal course of action would be to not look scummy, or tell him to not. Infinity has been helping out the team a lot in general so I would've expected something more thorough if Winter was scum here; rather, it felt like the focus was urgency of getting Winter in-thread

2) Winter immediately just posted "I am here", when he TOTALLY could've delayed it/pretended he hadn't seen it or Infinity hadn't pinged him yet when he had made up his mind or something. This is also indicative of (1) happening.

3) Winter looked like he was genuinely trying to process what was going on in real time (more evidence of (1) being the case), and instead of committing to something or "promising to commit to a vote", he just called both wagons meh and ducked out. I don't see scum Winter doing that, I could be totally off base here but the vibe I get from Winter as a player is that he is more self-conscious of how he is perceived in thread and that whole interaction definitely did not feel self-conscious at all

can someone debunk my reasoning for winter flakes being town for my sanity? i remembered this carrying a decent amt of weight for me in my TL of him but since then he still hasn't done much so i feel less inclined to defend him now, even though it overall seems like a town!indicative interaction

anyone?

[innocentvillager]

I will admit that otherwise I don’t find winters posting particularly obvtowny but I also didn’t last game and it seems like he’s just busier this game too so idk

[innocentvillager]

I like IV's thought process on why Winter Flakes is Town.

This was his 56th post on Sun 23:19 ET

Spoiler:

okapoka yells at infinity to ping Winter on discord to get Winter to move his vote, then this sequence of posts happens

I am here

what are the options? lld dgb and ythan?

I dont really like either of those options but if lld green flips we get more info I think is she at L-1?

this came at the same time, then there was a 6 hr gap until this post:

I popped back in because Infinity pinged me on discord after Oka asked him to?

and then he finally votes dgb

this is not how a scum hydra handles this interaction, imo

I like this thought-process from IV but I'm not sure I entirely agree with it. We don't know how much help he's getting from his teammates, and I'm not sure what he would necessarily do differently as scum in that position than if he were Town? Are you taking meta into account when drawing that conclusion?

As scum, saying 'I don't like either wagon but...' is about as safe and easy a thing as you could do tbh. Most players were saying the same thing, so it's easy to blend in that way.

This was his 72nd post on Mon 10:44 ET

Luca said he liked my thought process on why Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned) is town, posted a decent amount about other stuff, then 11.5 hours later went out of his way to explain how he disagreed with it (I don't think he actually understood my argument if you look at the response). Luca also never brings up Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned) after I explained my reasoning a little bit further.

Why is scum going out of their way to keep Winter Flakes an elimmable open in kind of a slimy way? Is it scum wifoming? Did he decide that the would've townread that as town then later realize that having Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned) as a more elimmable slot was good for them?

I want to say that this is town!indicative for Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned) because a) Luca went out of his way to disagree b) Luca ignored my followup/it didn't pop out to him. I would want to look for what townies are posting on my partner in his shoes especially if it's anything that can be construed as a towncase. Instead he ignored it and kept Winter in his PoE

The fact that, also, zero other people engaged on my reasoning, makes me think I'm more likely to be right on town!Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned), because when how many times I kept requoting this surely one of the scum would've noticed and tried to engage/have an excuse to TR their buddy Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned).

[innocentvillager]

tl;dr idk if im being clear so I'll just reword what I'm saying I guess, but I think that lack of thread engagement with my Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned) is potential town reasoning when I've repeated it multiple times is town indicative.

This is because if Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned) was scum I would expect scum to notice an excuse to TR their lurking buddy and engage with it/at least validate it/me a little bit (especially when it's more and more clear that I'm getting ignored), not completely ignore it as well and continue to PoE/bus him (I don't know if really anyone thinks Winter Flakes (alt of Uncrowned) is town rn)

[innocentvillager]

IV is GOATed

I’m gonna be sad if you’re laughing at me in scum Pt :/

[innocentvillager]

I also don’t have like, a ton of confidence in this read fwiw

But while there’s a major wagon here and has high compromise-wagon equity, I’d like to at the very least play devils advocate for now

[innocentvillager]

hmm I don’t know how I feel about any of these wagons

I am feeling A50’s take time sentiment

is there ever scum in {oka, ceph, hop}

I get we’re not wagoning hop today for mech reasons

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Titus oh yeah I forgot this was a thing

Only thing giving me some pause is Luca’s blatantly sliming of Titus when Titus was kind of a candidate but ehhh could be bussing especially given he just self hammered

[innocentvillager]

see that bit about titus voting with bell in dann's post? she's been paying attention to that comment. she's been putting more weak vca-esque stuff in the thread and has actively refused to vote with IV now that it's been pointed out she would care about that if she were town.

can you elaborate this a little more

[innocentvillager]

i rly appreciate your concerted effort to prevent my nightkill by tossing me in scumpools now and then for fun but it's not going to work

I guess I just don’t know how to read you sorry

but if scum is going to not nightkill you because one uninfluential townie mildly has you in his PoE then lol

how is oka for you rn?

[innocentvillager]

i also kind of forgot why I thought xtoxm was town

more intense engagement I guess? auro high efforting? idk

[innocentvillager]

cute as always

why aren’t you an obvtown read for me yet oka

should I think you’re obvtown here?

[innocentvillager]

i think im obvtown yes but also im not going to be a dick about it because nothing is more annoying than people saying their obvtown

I feel attacked :/ lolll

Xtoxm not being a bum like last game makes them town here? is that what you’re sayjng

[innocentvillager]

*him (I think)

[innocentvillager]

do you believe that’s enough? what’s your personal stance on him

[innocentvillager]

i think im obvtown yes

I guess I asked because sometimes when I start to high effort I feel like people should just see this as out of my scumrange and that I’m obvtown

whereas other games when I can’t really understand what’s going on and lurk/don’t SOC, I feel like, more okay when people don’t TR me

I think I was curious about your self perceived towniness based on somethjng like that

[innocentvillager]

It doesn't feel like a sheep when I'm the only one voting you

this was a strange defense?

only one *currently* voting doesn't really mean that it wasn't a sheep?

[innocentvillager]

i think i need to see some meta examples of scum!mastina powerwolfing like this to start seriously considering the mastina wagon

because as I see it, her play here is for sure outside the scumrange of most people on MS

[innocentvillager]

i don't particularly buy the narrativy arguments about her pushing a scum agenda (even though circumstantially, it looks like she somewhat has so far given seen flips) when the way she has approached everything at least *seems* pretty plausibly like it was from a town tunnelly mindset

[innocentvillager]

I feel like, if back on D1 we told mastina “we’re Bop policying you if hercule flips scum and LLD flips town” she would’ve laughed and gone “go right ahead” but here we are

@mastina why shouldn’t we Bop wagon you today for being wrong on your strongest scumread and townread (at various points)?

[innocentvillager]

i want mastina to answer this question lol

[innocentvillager]

meh, maybe mastina would be powerwolfing d1 but d2 and d3 have been the regurgitation of the same few arguments rebaked over and over

tl;dr this for me?

[innocentvillager]

IV I go back and forth on but it feels like he's been waiting in the wings to vote town.

id love to hear more about this

the parts you go back and forth on, and why you feel i am "waiting in the wings to vote town"

[innocentvillager]

oka do you feel the way mastina is handling her scumread on you is significantly more passive (less corralling of the town's votes) than the pushing against Titus and LLD? i don't know that I felt that there was a huge difference (without rereading). It feels to me like she's mostly just been monologuing all game about her scumreads and less so trying to "beg people to vote for her scumreads", which is what you are accusing her of doing here

and to me that feels more likely to be a playstyle thing

[innocentvillager]

im not accusing her of begging people to vote for her scumreds, i am saying that she should be begging if she thinks im scum numba 1 and im widely townread. there is just no sense of uh oh from her.

yeah sorry i did know that i just worded it poorly, i meant that you are accusing her of being timid on her pushes and instead want her to beg people to vote for her scumreads. and i was saying mastina seems reasonably consistent in the way she's handled her pushes on LLD, Titus, you, so i was suggesting that that is how she just pushes in general even if you think town her should be more proactive in building the wagon.

you think she's "combative" as town and more pushy, ok maybe, idk her, id need to see more on that point i guess? do you think she was more combative in the first game for example?

she was pretty timid about voting lld until dgb pushed her. like she was first to express a sr on lld sure, but she hops around basically until dgb commits to lld where she parks for the rest of d1

hm, i may have to reread this part. if it's true that DGB pushing LLD gave mastina more confidence to aggressively push LLD, then it could be scum!agenda motivated? or it could just be town trying to vote where she thinks she has the most support? even if i accept your interpretation of this cause -> effect chain i think i see how it fits narratively with a scum!mastina agenda but im not convinced it's unlikely from town!her

[innocentvillager]

bro you were in the last game and you saw how she kinda led the charge on dismantling the xtoxm and abr wagons. to be fair she also charged in pushing ceph and herc so its not about her read accuracy. she was a lot more hardline last game yes.

i TL this post for some reason

maybe it's the directness and slight bewilderment that im not seeing what you feel you're clearly seeing

in either case, ill admit your point on mastina has merit

it kind of just depends on how we interpret her pushes between this game and last game

[innocentvillager]

maybe one thing to look out for between this game and last game is: does she ever display traits of “being political” as oka likes to call it

specifically like, only pushing hard when it seems like they will be a viable wagon

if she has multiple scumreads, does she ever just vote lazily with the scumread that is at the highest

or is she always pushing and voting her top scumread regardless of the wagon size

if she’s not displaying any of these “political” behaviors last game, I would consider that scum!indicative here

[innocentvillager]

True but consensus is that Ythan is town

i was like the first person to call Ythan town and unvote him if we're playing that game lol

i thought both LLD and DGB were town before EOD1, they were literally the only two wagons essentially and we all had to pick obviously. you are not the only person who has incorrectly thought that I like, "pushed" LLD iirc

Luca was largely in my PoE and probably would've joined if he didn't self hammer early

im sure jjh's alignment will be sorted out down the line

if you know you're town then yeah i guess i've been voting you a fair amount lol ill give you that

my reads have certainly not been great but they're not THAT bad lol. maybe it's because you're purely looking at the votecounts. especially early on im voting to generate reactions and add pressure/do something with my vote, since i really have not had many confident reads this game, and i think ive made both of those things abundantly clear throughout my iso

[innocentvillager]

okay i think i understand what's going on in your mind until I get to these 3 posts:

If the back end is all town (which is the postulation with mastina and IV town), then we should be able to find scum.

Remove Ythan because consensus town. Remove IV and mastina because townbeards.

That leaves Agar, Hopkirk, jjh and xtoxm.

This creates a problem on two fronts. One Hopkirk and Xtoxm are consensus town. That leaves too few scum.

Two, Luca hammering without a buddy on the wagon makes less sense but can still be true.

i don't understand how you get only those 4? what happened to like, the other people on Luca's wagon

4

Karl Popper outlined a tetradic schema to describe the growth of theories and, via generalization, also the emergence of new behaviors and living organisms: (1) problem, (2) tentative theory, (3) (attempted) error-elimination (especially by way of critical discussion), and (4) new problem(s). (See Popper's Objective Knowledge, 1972, revised 1979.)

Vote Count 1.4

hercule

(6): Lady Lambdadelta, Ythan, OkaPoka, the worst, Dannflor, Dunnstral

Lady Lambdadelta

(4): DrippingGoofball, hercule, Hopkirk, innocentvillager

Dannflor

(2): Cephrir, mastina

the worst

(2): jjh927, Winter Flakes

Almost50

(1): Almost50

DrippingGoofball

(1): Xtoxm

Not Voting

(2): Titus, AGar

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

5

Towards the end of the film Monty Python and the Holy Grail (1975), the character of King Arthur repeatedly confuses the number five with the number three.

Vote Count 1.5

hercule

(7): Lady Lambdadelta, Ythan, OkaPoka, the worst, Dannflor, Dunnstral, Cephrir

Lady Lambdadelta

(4): DrippingGoofball, hercule, Hopkirk, innocentvillager

the worst

(2): jjh927, Winter Flakes

Dannflor

(1): mastina

Almost50

(1): Almost50

DrippingGoofball

(1): Xtoxm

Not Voting

(2): Titus, AGar

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

If we look at this wagon, with the current theories, then Cephrir would have to be scum as the rest of the hercule wagon is town.

This would also postulate that all the LLD counterwagon was town which is odd given the fact LLD is pushing scum here.

i have no idea how you get here either

I struggle based on the votes Ceph to see a world where you and IV are both town.

Agar's still my most likely scum but I just can't see you both as town.

or this

[innocentvillager]

Can someone answer me about who's actually talking to their teammates and who isn't

im not really

occasionally if i have something i want a second opinion on ill ping them and they'll pop in briefly, but they're definitely not like following the game or anything

[innocentvillager]

that paraphrased chat is ridiculously concise, its not what town chat look like.

why? what is the difference between scum chat and town chat? ive never been in a scum hydra so i don't really know. i think scum might try to fake a "genuine" conversation anyway, you did that with auro right? i just want to know what's pinging you here

gets asked about a read and quotes something he said 2 weeks ago, that seems really weird to me. why not go into talking about your read. surely town would have some kind of nuance to it in that amount of time.

sorry, i couldn't figure out what you're referring to here

[innocentvillager]

a50 what are your thoughts on titus? iirc you pegged them as scum in a past LN

[innocentvillager]

this isn't the obvtown bell i remember but i do get glimpses of his towniness and he said he's more busy than usual this game

so im kind of conflicted on if i just like his playstyle or i am seeing real signs of him being town

[innocentvillager]

a50 what are your thoughts on titus? iirc

you pegged them as scum in a past LN

There was a problem starting C:\Users\A50\AppData\Local\MafiaScum\comprehension.dll

The specified module could not be launched properly

A

bort/

R

ephrase?

manatee musical thing

[innocentvillager]

iirc you pegged

them

as scum in a past LN

*her

[innocentvillager]

i would rather kill titus today, she is scum

you're that confident?

[innocentvillager]

fair, i can get behind all that (and have)

can you remind me why only now you are semi confidently pushing Titus and not like, back on D1? it just seems a little sudden and jarring fmpov tbh, like just as I was having some doubts on Titus and the whole Luca/Titus cross bus happened making me forget about Titus, you revive the spirit of Dann and give me hope there again. Like my recollection of events was that Dann and I were the only ones pushing Titus back on D1 and we were ostracized and mocked for not getting on main wagons

[innocentvillager]

and we were ostracized and mocked for not getting on main wagons

not that this was necessarily wrong because, yknow, deadline, just wondering was has changed for you mostly

[innocentvillager]

that paraphrased chat is ridiculously concise, its not what town chat look like.

why? what is the difference between scum chat and town chat? ive never been in a scum hydra so i don't really know. i think scum might try to fake a "genuine" conversation anyway, you did that with auro right? i just want to know what's pinging you here

gets asked about a read and quotes something he said 2 weeks ago, that seems really weird to me. why not go into talking about your read. surely town would have some kind of nuance to it in that amount of time.

sorry, i couldn't figure out what you're referring to here

@Xtoxm i figured out what you were referring to here so nvm. I don't personally have an issue with it because Hopkirk did specifically say he couldn't find it in his ISO so i can see town me just quoting it quickly and dropping it. If anything i feel like it suggests Bell doesn't care that much about how he is perceived and being overexplainy, but im fine considering it NAI

@Hopkirk same question to you, I realized you also called Bell's chat not real, so why?

like do you guys think Lilith and SS were there and they said, "okay guys, let's fake a conversation now", and they roleplayed as if they were town? or did bell make the whole conversation up when asked about it? was it preplanned? again idk how scum vs town chats work, so if you wouldn't mind enlightening us with your confidence maybe we can see it too

[innocentvillager]

fair, not sure what "slow" means in this context specifically? would you mind just like, tl;dr'ing the read progression on Titus over time, i still don't think i have a clear picture in my mind of how it evolved

yeah the crossbussing thing i feel like should have maybe some weight to it? (and i think some people might be overvaluing it?) but if she's scum by play then the Luca thing should only really be indicative, not confirming town!Titus. i think shelving that for now is probably ~fine~

[innocentvillager]

also on the bell thing i think one of the possibilities for what yall meant by the conversation being fake is possible and the other is not a real action a scum player would take

are you referring to this:

and they roleplayed as if they were town? or did bell make the whole conversation up when asked about it?

and the first one is plausible but the second one isn't?

[innocentvillager]

it's probably interesting to observe me in games like this one because 90% of my mafia play these days is intentionally selecting games with certain players i enjoy and who i feel comfortable playing second fiddle to, basing my decisions on agreeing or disagreeing or suspecting those players, etc

it appears that without that i go to a very gut based style where i frequently change my mind at the drop of a hat

ok sure thats fine. yeah, i feel i am similar in this respect

I am talking about exactly this. You are -usually- one of the most vocal players in any given game, and especially so when you are Town (i.e. when you are trying to figure things out). Your play here gives me the impression you are not interested in figuring things out. I dunno if it's actually the case or if it's a false impression I got from you being VLA most of the time, but that's how I feel.

As I said, I still think you are Town for some of the stuff you posted, and some of the stances you've made, but I do miss the "flare". The Titus I'm used to would have done a complete VCA and specified a slot (or two at most) for us to wagon today.

So, if I was to use meta

heavily

I would probably be calling you Scum here. But I only use meta as a secondary/supporting scum hunting tool.

i like this take, thanks. my experience of town!Titus is just more energy/engagement as well overall. but i also agree with Titus going through RL stuff it just makes reading her that much tougher

i think maybe some of Titus's earlier posting when she was more engaged might be more AI. ill relook that for my to-do list

[innocentvillager]

You think wrong and will be proven so tomorrow. I guarantee you that jjh is town this game.

you understand we will policy you short of a literal innocent child claim tomorrow if this is wrong? you sure that's cool with you mastina?

[innocentvillager]

Can someone walk me through why Bell's conversation with his team is bad when it's just a paraphrase?

yes this I am waiting on xtoxm and/or Hopkirk to give me their rundown on that

[innocentvillager]

i feel like the main wagons rn have all been kind of MIA lately (except mastina) and i don't know how to feel about that

(jjh, Winter, Bell, Titus, AGar)

[innocentvillager]

But pragmatically, given that Ceph/Ythan are universal townreads anyway (and thus won't be wagoned), the list of players I'd vote is literally:
{Titus, AGar, Bell, Winter Flakes, OkaPoka}.

this is the exact order in which i would vote them tbh huh

[innocentvillager]

a lot of people suspect jjh but mastina is hard shielding him so lets go to d4 and find out if thats all bullshit
i have a fear that mastina is town with a townread on scum and the mech softing is fake which will take her down with him but
WE WILL SEE.

this is a pretty towny thought imo that i had too

[innocentvillager]

specifically it's towny because i had it

[innocentvillager]

wait WHAT THE FUCK i was not looking at the clock holy shit

i think this is still the VC, bell and Oka switched onto Titus briefly then went right back to mastina

47

It is a Lucas number. It is also a Keith number because its digits appear as successive terms earlier in the series of Lucas numbers: 2, 1, 3, 4, 7, 11, 18, 29, 47, ...[5]

Vote Count 3.12

Bell

(5): Xtoxm, Hopkirk, Titus, mastina, Almost50

mastina

(3): OkaPoka, AGar, Bell

Titus

(2): Cephrir, innocentvillager

Winter Flakes

(1): jjh927

jjh927

(1): Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(1): Ythan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

[innocentvillager]

you'd think id have learned on D1

consider my vote spiritually on bell if no one wants to move to Titus

sorry Bell

[innocentvillager]

@jjh, Winter please move off each other it's Bell, mastina or Titus today

pick one

[innocentvillager]

ok so if we believe jjh (probably) hopkirk is not a VT and OkaPoka is not a VT?

[innocentvillager]

jjh you have no more shots left right

im willing to kill Oka today here i guess but why are you guys so confident

[innocentvillager]

if anyone likes this kind of stuff, here's every vc colored just for reference. i put myself in purple, you can find+replace "purple" with "blue" and find your own name [ color=blue]YOURNAME[/color ] and replace that with [ color=YOURCOLOR]YOURNAME[/color ]

Spoiler: vc

Vote Count 1.1

Xtoxm

(4):

hercule

,

Hopkirk

,

OkaPoka

,

innocentvillager

innocentvillager

(3):

Dannflor

,

DrippingGoofball

,

Ythan

Cephrir

(1):

AGar

Dannflor

(1):

Cephrir

Not Voting

(9):

Titus

,

mastina

,

Xtoxm

,

the worst

,

Winter Flakes

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

jjh927

,

Almost50

,

Dunnstral

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.2

hercule

(4):

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Dannflor

,

OkaPoka

,

innocentvillager

innocentvillager

(2):

DrippingGoofball

,

Ythan

Dannflor

(2):

Cephrir

,

Hopkirk

Xtoxm

(2):

hercule

,

mastina

Cephrir

(1):

AGar

DrippingGoofball

(1):

Xtoxm

Not Voting

(6):

Titus

,

the worst

,

Winter Flakes

,

jjh927

,

Almost50

,

Dunnstral

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.3

hercule

(5):

Lady Lambdadelta

,

innocentvillager

,

Ythan

,

OkaPoka

,

the worst

Xtoxm

(2):

hercule

,

Dunnstral

innocentvillager

(2):

DrippingGoofball

,

Almost50

Almost50

(2):

Hopkirk

,

Dannflor

Dannflor

(2):

Cephrir

,

mastina

the worst

(1):

jjh927

DrippingGoofball

(1):

Xtoxm

Not Voting

(3):

Titus

,

Winter Flakes

,

AGar

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.4

hercule

(6):

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Ythan

,

OkaPoka

,

the worst

,

Dannflor

,

Dunnstral

Lady Lambdadelta

(4):

DrippingGoofball

,

hercule

,

Hopkirk

,

innocentvillager

Dannflor

(2):

Cephrir

,

mastina

the worst

(2):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

Almost50

(1):

Almost50

DrippingGoofball

(1):

Xtoxm

Not Voting

(2):

Titus

,

AGar

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.5

hercule

(7):

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Ythan

,

OkaPoka

,

the worst

,

Dannflor

,

Dunnstral

,

Cephrir

Lady Lambdadelta

(4):

DrippingGoofball

,

hercule

,

Hopkirk

,

innocentvillager

the worst

(2):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

Dannflor

(1):

mastina

Almost50

(1):

Almost50

DrippingGoofball

(1):

Xtoxm

Not Voting

(2):

Titus

,

AGar

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.6

hercule

(7):

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Ythan

,

OkaPoka

,

the worst

,

Dannflor

,

Dunnstral

,

Cephrir

Lady Lambdadelta

(5):

DrippingGoofball

,

hercule

,

Hopkirk

,

innocentvillager

,

Xtoxm

the worst

(2):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

Dannflor

(1):

mastina

Almost50

(1):

Almost50

Not Voting

(2):

Titus

,

AGar

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.7

hercule

(6):

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Ythan

,

OkaPoka

,

the worst

,

Dunnstral

,

Dannflor

Lady Lambdadelta

(5):

DrippingGoofball

,

hercule

,

Hopkirk

,

innocentvillager

,

Xtoxm

Hopkirk

(2):

Almost50

,

Cephrir

the worst

(2):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

Dannflor

(1):

mastina

innocentvillager

(1):

Titus

Not Voting

(1):

AGar

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

8

A disphenoid crystal is bounded by eight scalene triangles arranged in pairs. A ditetragonal prism in the tetragonal crystal system has eight similar faces whose alternate interfacial angles only are equal.

Vote Count 1.8

Lady Lambdadelta

(6):

DrippingGoofball

,

hercule

,

Hopkirk

,

innocentvillager

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

hercule

(5):

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Ythan

,

OkaPoka

,

the worst

,

Dunnstral

Hopkirk

(3):

Almost50

,

Cephrir

,

Dannflor

the worst

(2):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

innocentvillager

(1):

Titus

Not Voting

(1):

AGar

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.9

Lady Lambdadelta

(6):

DrippingGoofball

,

Hopkirk

,

innocentvillager

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Ythan

hercule

(3):

Lady Lambdadelta

,

the worst

,

Dunnstral

Hopkirk

(3):

Almost50

,

Cephrir

,

Dannflor

the worst

(2):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

innocentvillager

(1):

Titus

Not Voting

(3):

AGar

,

OkaPoka

,

hercule

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.10

Lady Lambdadelta

(6):

DrippingGoofball

,

Hopkirk

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Ythan

,

hercule

hercule

(3):

Lady Lambdadelta

,

the worst

,

Dunnstral

Hopkirk

(2):

Almost50

,

Cephrir

the worst

(2):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

DrippingGoofball

(2):

OkaPoka

,

innocentvillager

innocentvillager

(1):

Titus

OkaPoka

(1):

Dannflor

Not Voting

(1):

AGar

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.11

Lady Lambdadelta

(6):

DrippingGoofball

,

Hopkirk

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Ythan

,

hercule

Dunnstral

(3):

innocentvillager

,

Cephrir

,

Dannflor

DrippingGoofball

(2):

OkaPoka

,

Dunnstral

hercule

(2):

Lady Lambdadelta

,

the worst

the worst

(2):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

Hopkirk

(1):

Almost50

innocentvillager

(1):

Titus

Not Voting

(1):

AGar

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.12

Lady Lambdadelta

(6):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Ythan

,

hercule

,

Hopkirk

DrippingGoofball

(3):

OkaPoka

,

Dunnstral

,

Dannflor

Dunnstral

(2):

innocentvillager

,

Cephrir

hercule

(2):

Lady Lambdadelta

,

the worst

the worst

(2):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

Hopkirk

(2):

Almost50

,

AGar

innocentvillager

(1):

Titus

Not Voting

(0):

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.13

Lady Lambdadelta

(6):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Ythan

,

hercule

,

Hopkirk

DrippingGoofball

(5):

OkaPoka

,

Dunnstral

,

Dannflor

,

Cephrir

,

the worst

the worst

(2):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

Hopkirk

(2):

Almost50

,

AGar

Dunnstral

(1):

innocentvillager

innocentvillager

(1):

Titus

Xtoxm

(1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Not Voting

(0):

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.14

Lady Lambdadelta

(6):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Ythan

,

Luca Blight

,

Hopkirk

the worst

(6):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

,

Titus

,

Cephrir

,

OkaPoka

,

Dannflor

DrippingGoofball

(2):

Dunnstral

,

the worst

Hopkirk

(2):

Almost50

,

AGar

Dunnstral

(1):

innocentvillager

Xtoxm

(1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Not Voting

(0):

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Luca Blight

replaces

hercule

.

Vote Count 1.15

the worst

(6):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

,

Titus

,

Cephrir

,

OkaPoka

,

Dannflor

Lady Lambdadelta

(6):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Ythan

,

Hopkirk

,

innocentvillager

DrippingGoofball

(2):

Dunnstral

,

the worst

Hopkirk

(2):

Almost50

,

AGar

Xtoxm

(1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Not Voting

(1):

Luca Blight

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

the worst

has requested replacement; searching for a replacement.

Vote Count 1.16

the worst

(6):

jjh927

,

Winter Flakes

,

Titus

,

Cephrir

,

Dannflor

,

innocentvillager

Lady Lambdadelta

(4):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Ythan

DrippingGoofball

(3):

Dunnstral

,

the worst

,

OkaPoka

Hopkirk

(1):

AGar

Xtoxm

(1):

Lady Lambdadelta

AGar

(1):

Hopkirk

Not Voting

(2):

Luca Blight

,

Almost50

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.17

Lady Lambdadelta

(6):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Ythan

,

jjh927

,

OkaPoka

the worst

(3):

Winter Flakes

,

Titus

,

Cephrir

DrippingGoofball

(2):

Dunnstral

,

the worst

Titus

(2):

innocentvillager

,

Dannflor

Hopkirk

(1):

AGar

Xtoxm

(1):

Lady Lambdadelta

AGar

(1):

Hopkirk

Not Voting

(2):

Luca Blight

,

Almost50

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.18

Lady Lambdadelta

(5):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Ythan

,

jjh927

Bell

(2):

Winter Flakes

,

Titus

DrippingGoofball

(2):

Dunnstral

,

Bell

Titus

(2):

innocentvillager

,

Dannflor

Ythan

(2):

OkaPoka

,

Cephrir

Hopkirk

(1):

AGar

AGar

(1):

Hopkirk

mastina

(1):

Lady Lambdadelta

Not Voting

(2):

Luca Blight

,

Almost50

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.19

Ythan

(8):

OkaPoka

,

Luca Blight

,

Dannflor

,

Cephrir

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Titus

,

AGar

,

innocentvillager

Lady Lambdadelta

(5):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Ythan

,

jjh927

DrippingGoofball

(2):

Dunnstral

,

Bell

Bell

(1):

Winter Flakes

AGar

(1):

Hopkirk

Not Voting

(1):

Almost50

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.20

Ythan

(5):

OkaPoka

,

Luca Blight

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Titus

,

AGar

Titus

(4):

Dannflor

,

jjh927

,

innocentvillager

,

Cephrir

Lady Lambdadelta

(3):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

DrippingGoofball

(2):

Dunnstral

,

Bell

Bell

(1):

Winter Flakes

AGar

(1):

Hopkirk

OkaPoka

(1):

Ythan

Not Voting

(1):

Almost50

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.21

Ythan

(5):

OkaPoka

,

Luca Blight

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Titus

,

AGar

Lady Lambdadelta

(5):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Hopkirk

,

Ythan

Titus

(3):

Dannflor

,

jjh927

,

innocentvillager

DrippingGoofball

(2):

Dunnstral

,

Cephrir

Bell

(1):

Winter Flakes

Cephrir

(1):

Bell

Not Voting

(1):

Almost50

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.22

Lady Lambdadelta

(6):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Hopkirk

,

Ythan

,

jjh927

DrippingGoofball

(6):

Dunnstral

,

Cephrir

,

OkaPoka

,

Dannflor

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

innocentvillager

Ythan

(4):

Luca Blight

,

Titus

,

AGar

,

Bell

Bell

(1):

Winter Flakes

OkaPoka

(1):

Almost50

Not Voting

(0):

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.23

Lady Lambdadelta

(7):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Hopkirk

,

Ythan

,

jjh927

,

innocentvillager

DrippingGoofball

(5):

Dunnstral

,

Cephrir

,

OkaPoka

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Bell

Ythan

(3):

Luca Blight

,

Titus

,

AGar

Titus

(1):

Dannflor

Bell

(1):

Winter Flakes

OkaPoka

(1):

Almost50

Not Voting

(0):

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.24

Lady Lambdadelta

(8):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Hopkirk

,

Ythan

,

jjh927

,

innocentvillager

,

Titus

DrippingGoofball

(6):

Dunnstral

,

Cephrir

,

OkaPoka

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Bell

,

Dannflor

Ythan

(3):

Luca Blight

,

AGar

,

Almost50

Bell

(1):

Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(0):

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

Vote Count 1.25 (FINAL)

Lady Lambdadelta

(10):

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

,

mastina

,

Hopkirk

,

Ythan

,

jjh927

,

innocentvillager

,

Luca Blight

,

Titus

,

OkaPoka

DrippingGoofball

(7):

Dunnstral

,

Cephrir

,

Lady Lambdadelta

,

Bell

,

Dannflor

,

Winter Flakes

,

AGar

Ythan

(1):

Almost50

Not Voting

(0):

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate.

Vote Count 2.1

jjh927

(3):

Dunnstral

,

OkaPoka

,

Cephrir

Titus

(1):

jjh927

Not Voting

(11):

Titus

,

innocentvillager

,

mastina

,

AGar

,

Hopkirk

,

Xtoxm

,

Bell

,

Winter Flakes

,

Luca Blight

,

Ythan

,

Almost50

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 28, in (expired on 2021-02-28 15:00:00).

Vote Count 2.2

jjh927

(3):

Dunnstral

,

OkaPoka

,

innocentvillager

Ythan

(3):

Almost50

,

Titus

,

AGar

Almost50

(2):

Xtoxm

,

Ythan

Luca Blight

(1):

Cephrir

Titus

(1):

mastina

Not Voting

(5):

Hopkirk

,

Bell

,

Winter Flakes

,

Luca Blight

,

jjh927

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 28, in (expired on 2021-02-28 15:00:00).

Vote Count 2.3

jjh927

(3):

Dunnstral

,

OkaPoka

,

innocentvillager

Ythan

(3):

Almost50

,

Titus

,

AGar

Almost50

(2):

Xtoxm

,

Ythan

Titus

(2):

mastina

,

Luca Blight

Luca Blight

(1):

Cephrir

AGar

(1):

Hopkirk

Not Voting

(3):

Bell

,

Winter Flakes

,

jjh927

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 28, in (expired on 2021-02-28 15:00:00).

Vote Count 2.4

jjh927

(3):

Dunnstral

,

innocentvillager

,

Cephrir

Ythan

(3):

Almost50

,

Titus

,

AGar

Almost50

(2):

Xtoxm

,

Ythan

Titus

(1):

mastina

AGar

(1):

Hopkirk

Luca Blight

(1):

Bell

Bell

(1):

Luca Blight

Not Voting

(3):

Winter Flakes

,

jjh927

,

OkaPoka

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 28, in (expired on 2021-02-28 15:00:00).

Vote Count 2.5

Ythan

(4):

Almost50

,

Titus

,

OkaPoka

,

Cephrir

Almost50

(3):

Xtoxm

,

Ythan

,

AGar

Luca Blight

(2):

Bell

,

Winter Flakes

Bell

(2):

Luca Blight

,

mastina

jjh927

(1):

Dunnstral

Titus

(1):

innocentvillager

AGar

(1):

Hopkirk

Not Voting

(1):

jjh927

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 28, in (expired on 2021-02-28 15:00:00).

Vote Count 2.6

Luca Blight

(3):

Bell

,

Winter Flakes

,

Cephrir

Ythan

(2):

Almost50

,

Titus

Almost50

(2):

Xtoxm

,

AGar

Bell

(2):

Luca Blight

,

mastina

Titus

(1):

innocentvillager

AGar

(1):

Hopkirk

Not Voting

(4):

jjh927

,

Dunnstral

,

Ythan

,

OkaPoka

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 28, in (expired on 2021-02-28 15:00:00).

Vote Count 2.7

Bell

(3):

Luca Blight

,

mastina

,

Cephrir

Almost50

(3):

Xtoxm

,

AGar

,

Ythan

Luca Blight

(2):

Bell

,

Winter Flakes

Ythan

(1):

Titus

Titus

(1):

innocentvillager

OkaPoka

(1):

Hopkirk

Not Voting

(4):

jjh927

,

Dunnstral

,

OkaPoka

,

Almost50

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 28, in (expired on 2021-02-28 15:00:00).

Vote Count 2.8

Bell

(4):

Luca Blight

,

mastina

,

Cephrir

,

Xtoxm

Luca Blight

(3):

Bell

,

Winter Flakes

,

Dunnstral

Almost50

(2):

AGar

,

Ythan

OkaPoka

(2):

Hopkirk

,

Almost50

Ythan

(1):

Titus

Titus

(1):

innocentvillager

Not Voting

(2):

jjh927

,

OkaPoka

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 28, in (expired on 2021-02-28 15:00:00).

Vote Count 2.9

Luca Blight

(4):

Winter Flakes

,

Dunnstral

,

OkaPoka

,

Titus

Bell

(3):

Luca Blight

,

mastina

,

Cephrir

Almost50

(2):

AGar

,

Ythan

OkaPoka

(2):

Hopkirk

,

Almost50

Titus

(1):

innocentvillager

mastina

(1):

Bell

Not Voting

(2):

jjh927

,

Xtoxm

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 28, in (expired on 2021-02-28 15:00:00).

Vote Count 2.10 (FINAL)

Luca Blight

(8):

Winter Flakes

,

Dunnstral

,

OkaPoka

,

Titus

,

Almost50

,

Bell

,

Cephrir

,

Luca Blight

Almost50

(2):

AGar

,

Ythan

Bell

(1):

mastina

OkaPoka

(1):

Hopkirk

Titus

(1):

innocentvillager

Not Voting

(2):

jjh927

,

Xtoxm

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to eliminate.

Vote Count 3.1

jjh927

(2):

innocentvillager

,

Almost50

mastina

(2):

Bell

,

Winter Flakes

Bell

(1):

mastina

Not Voting

(8):

Titus

,

AGar

,

Hopkirk

,

Xtoxm

,

OkaPoka

,

jjh927

,

Cephrir

,

Ythan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.2

Winter Flakes

(3):

Cephrir

,

Xtoxm

,

jjh927

jjh927

(2):

innocentvillager

,

Almost50

Hopkirk

(2):

AGar

,

Bell

mastina

(1):

Winter Flakes

Bell

(1):

mastina

Not Voting

(4):

Titus

,

Hopkirk

,

OkaPoka

,

Ythan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.3

AGar

(3):

Hopkirk

,

Almost50

,

Xtoxm

Winter Flakes

(2):

Cephrir

,

jjh927

jjh927

(2):

innocentvillager

,

OkaPoka

Hopkirk

(1):

AGar

mastina

(1):

Winter Flakes

Bell

(1):

mastina

Not Voting

(3):

Titus

,

Ythan

,

Bell

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.4

AGar

(5):

Hopkirk

,

Almost50

,

Xtoxm

,

Titus

,

mastina

Winter Flakes

(2):

Cephrir

,

jjh927

mastina

(2):

Winter Flakes

,

OkaPoka

jjh927

(1):

innocentvillager

Hopkirk

(1):

AGar

Not Voting

(2):

Ythan

,

Bell

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.5

AGar

(5):

Hopkirk

,

Almost50

,

Xtoxm

,

Titus

,

mastina

Winter Flakes

(2):

Cephrir

,

jjh927

jjh927

(2):

innocentvillager

,

Winter Flakes

mastina

(2):

OkaPoka

,

AGar

Not Voting

(2):

Ythan

,

Bell

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.6

AGar

(4):

Hopkirk

,

Almost50

,

Titus

,

mastina

mastina

(3):

OkaPoka

,

AGar

,

Bell

Winter Flakes

(3):

Cephrir

,

jjh927

,

Xtoxm

jjh927

(1):

Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(2):

Ythan

,

innocentvillager

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.7

AGar

(3):

Hopkirk

,

Titus

,

mastina

mastina

(3):

OkaPoka

,

AGar

,

Bell

OkaPoka

(2):

Almost50

,

Xtoxm

Titus

(2):

Cephrir

,

innocentvillager

Winter Flakes

(1):

jjh927

jjh927

(1):

Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(1):

Ythan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.8

AGar

(3):

Hopkirk

,

Titus

,

mastina

mastina

(3):

OkaPoka

,

AGar

,

Bell

Titus

(2):

Cephrir

,

innocentvillager

OkaPoka

(1):

Almost50

Winter Flakes

(1):

jjh927

jjh927

(1):

Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(2):

Ythan

,

Xtoxm

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.9 (UNCHANGED)

AGar

(3):

Hopkirk

,

Titus

,

mastina

mastina

(3):

OkaPoka

,

AGar

,

Bell

Titus

(2):

Cephrir

,

innocentvillager

OkaPoka

(1):

Almost50

Winter Flakes

(1):

jjh927

jjh927

(1):

Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(2):

Ythan

,

Xtoxm

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.10

mastina

(3):

OkaPoka

,

AGar

,

Bell

AGar

(2):

Titus

,

mastina

Titus

(2):

Cephrir

,

innocentvillager

Bell

(2):

Xtoxm

,

Hopkirk

OkaPoka

(1):

Almost50

Winter Flakes

(1):

jjh927

jjh927

(1):

Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(1):

Ythan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.11

Bell

(4):

Xtoxm

,

Hopkirk

,

Titus

,

mastina

mastina

(3):

OkaPoka

,

AGar

,

Bell

Titus

(2):

Cephrir

,

innocentvillager

OkaPoka

(1):

Almost50

Winter Flakes

(1):

jjh927

jjh927

(1):

Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(1):

Ythan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.12

Bell

(5):

Xtoxm

,

Hopkirk

,

Titus

,

mastina

,

Almost50

mastina

(3):

OkaPoka

,

AGar

,

Bell

Titus

(2):

Cephrir

,

innocentvillager

Winter Flakes

(1):

jjh927

jjh927

(1):

Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(1):

Ythan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.13

Bell

(6):

Xtoxm

,

Hopkirk

,

Titus

,

mastina

,

Almost50

,

jjh927

mastina

(3):

AGar

,

Bell

,

OkaPoka

Titus

(2):

Cephrir

,

innocentvillager

jjh927

(1):

Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(1):

Ythan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.14

Bell

(6):

Xtoxm

,

Hopkirk

,

Titus

,

mastina

,

Almost50

,

jjh927

Titus

(4):

Cephrir

,

innocentvillager

,

OkaPoka

,

Bell

mastina

(1):

AGar

jjh927

(1):

Winter Flakes

Not Voting

(1):

Ythan

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Vote Count 3.15 (FINAL)

Bell

(7):

Xtoxm

,

Hopkirk

,

Titus

,

mastina

,

Almost50

,

jjh927

,

Ythan

Titus

(6):

Cephrir

,

innocentvillager

,

OkaPoka

,

Bell

,

Winter Flakes

,

AGar

Not Voting

(0):

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate.

[innocentvillager]

i thinkkkkkk i would vote oka or agar here

[innocentvillager]

I discussed with gypyx

gypyx thinks killing in Hopkirk/oka is good

he didn’t oka claim was the greatest, not sure if he thinks it’s like super scummy tho

I’m ready to vote oka barring anything else we want to do today

gypyx is also fine with massclaiming today

[innocentvillager]

So if I get it right Oka claimed VT, and jjh said not a vt?

no oka claimed the JOAT Commuter/Hider

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: jjh

this is literally unambiguously a scumclaim right?

uh i don't think it's unambiguously a scumclaim? that seems pretty confident?

but it doesn't look great for oka

[innocentvillager]

I’ve seen TPR!abr do essentially this in mini normal 2180 when he was busy

[innocentvillager]

I’ve seen TPR!abr do essentially this in mini normal 2180 when he was busy

I'm moving and cyberpunk 2077 is coming out wednesday.

My posting will be greatly reduced.

I see that VPB has fakeclaimed.

VOTE: VPB

FOS Gamma

this is the post i was talking about

people thought it was a scumclaim, VPB was basically confirmed TPR at this point, ABR just didn't catch up carefully

im not saying oka's reaction here is even NAI, i think it's scummy

but it's not 100% scum

[innocentvillager]

I don't like that Gypyx take from IV. Why's Gypyx throwing shade at me as well there, I assume it's a separate reason to 'being a pr' since he's not shading the other claims as well

lol, he's not shading you for play, i don't think he has read anything tbh beyond what im telling him

it is entirely due to you getting a non VT check from the neapolitan

[innocentvillager]

ik u don’t like flippant shade hop pls forgive me

[innocentvillager]

nah gypyx is the theory guy on our team, he’s good with setup stuff so I go to him a lot for this kind of stuff

A50 claimed a while ago while you claimed after it was known the neap targeted you and got a PR result

I imagine it’s because of that. Yes with no other info a not VT check is scum!indicative, this is basic probability

If you really want more, I can ask him again, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable

[innocentvillager]

i agree oka/bell associatives are bad

Like I said I’m going to vote oka probably

[innocentvillager]

I don’t think you’re scum fwiw hopkirk

[innocentvillager]

im starting to wonder how this setup is balanced

which direction?

[innocentvillager]

im starting to wonder how this setup is balanced

which direction?

it seems townsided, it feels like we have a lot of stuff

now that you mention it i think that's partly why gypyx is okay killing today in {oka, hopkirk} lol

[innocentvillager]

like if they are both PR that's probably too much?

[innocentvillager]

Why IV? Because he was on neither of the Scum eliminations. Now imagine how I feel when I see him trying to express "doubt" over the result on Oka too. (Yes, he did say he would vote there, but come on, what would YOU do if you were in his shoes??)

meh both flipped scum were deep in my PoE

but yeah ill admit my voting record doesn't look great

[innocentvillager]

oka I feel like you might as well claim your actions bc ur probs gonna die today? and your full role with modifiers if that isn’t the full role

did you get a notification you were targeted by neapolitan

[innocentvillager]

ngl i would not have checked ythan

I would absolutely not have checked ythan if I were jjh

I almost certainly would’ve checked Titus

but I’m not jjh with a strong TR on Titus so yeah

idk, I’m really not buying the chance that jjh was a scum announcing 2-shot+ neap all along who holstered n1