TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

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People putting way too much stock into setup spec here

Just look at actions

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It is SUPER important for scum to elim me today, because if we elim scum today, I can start hard-clearing Townies or guiltying the last bad guy.

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Look, I don’t think Norwegian’s case is bad, it’s just coming from scum. He put up a good case as scum.

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Also, Status hard misrepped me.

I didn’t tell multiple people to stfu, i was mainly toxic to only 1 person, with some extra poisonous activity residually dripping down to the others

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norwee isnt one of them. I think he's shown a reasonable amount of patience dealing with FL goading him repeatedly and Pine literally coming in and telling him to shut the fuck up repeatedly.

he is GOADING ME

wtf

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Man, y’all are way more toxic than me, my presence just demands more spotlight

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setupspec is below other forms of scum hunting for a reason, that's just all mech stuff. Mech is the lazy way to play Mafia unless you're all in on mech. If you are excellent at mech, and use that supplementally, then yes, but I'd even say I'm the strongest at mech in this game

They using 17p rolelist to compare it to 13p, I just can't argue them, it's simply beyond any logic at this point, like strongman is just for giving scum confidence and not to directly counter something on town's side. Could you explain them why there can't be same amount identical/similar PRs in 13p game as it is in 17p, cause I don't know how I should explain this to them for this to sink in their thick skulls

I don’t know why you expect me to be able to.

I’ve been saying that setup spec is not law, and my role completely shatters their setup spec

It’s hard to argue with Scum, though.

For what it’s worth, I think Norwegian is putting on a strong showing, though

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setupspec is below other forms of scum hunting for a reason, that's just all mech stuff. Mech is the lazy way to play Mafia unless you're all in on mech. If you are excellent at mech, and use that supplementally, then yes, but I'd even say I'm the strongest at mech in this game

They using 17p rolelist to compare it to 13p, I just can't argue them, it's simply beyond any logic at this point, like strongman is just for giving scum confidence and not to directly counter something on town's side. Could you explain them why there can't be same amount identical/similar PRs in 13p game as it is in 17p, cause I don't know how I should explain this to them for this to sink in their thick skulls

Well that’s pretty much what I’m saying. Even if you assume both Pine’s and FL’s roles are real, then it’s still less TPR counterbalancing DEB. Because Misty’s role is somewhere between neutral and negative utility, depending on context, so the mech reasons to think Pine logically has to be scum here don’t hold up. Chances are if Pine were to flip ungated town jk, you can probably bank that one of the vts is ungated scum PR.

Mistyx’s role is there because of the likelihood of a Nokill mixed in with the Vig shot. With playing well, scum can be 2 deaths ahead of playing bad 2 deaths behind.

However, it’s also likely to be done evenly with a no kill and then a venge kill, so there were plenty of options.

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Mistyx’s role and position this game, Nancy, is kind of like Unwnd in FL vs Hectic. The role actually can make a lot of sense coming from scum, but Mistyx’s actions are what cleared them for me this game. Everytime there’s been heat on them, I’ve seen them do something that made me town read them, even from the beginning when I went after them and they went “i wouldn’t really know how to read you anyways) or whatever they said

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Norwegian's just scum essentially giving his life to get rid of the JK.

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he's banking on the Ramcius/Status 1v1 to win the game

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Conftown does not mean reads are right, but i know you know that, so what did you mean by that comment?

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Right.

In my experience, conf town reads are usually wrong because it’s where scum spend their effort trying to convince

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I’m also obv biased here.

But idk, people don’t wanna listen to me even though even Norwegian sees that I’m obv town at this point

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The only people who don’t see me as obv town are Nancy, Mistyx, and Akarin, the 3 people who are gonna misfade me anyways

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Last year I slip as mafia, the one before that like 3-4 years ago, I get worlds most terrible rand as scum in the Large Theme and still nearly go all the way solo, this year I solve as town early and get misfaded

I must have some type of Team Mafia curse

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This is my first non large in team mafia, and my first as town since the very first one I did like in 2015-2016, but I was VT who got killed early if I remember correctly, but it was also insignificant

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I’m always the center of the game, irregardless of anything I do by choice—it’s just what happens

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Real life too.

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Good looking sandwich, not gonna lie.

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Ramcius could end up being scum, sure, but i still think it’s Norwegian/Ram if that is the case.

If Pine is scum, yes, Ramcius is the most likely partner, but I don’t think Pine is scum

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Norwegian's just scum essentially giving his life to get rid of the JK.

You’re being a bit of a clown. I hope you’ll reflect on it.

Wait a second. Shea told me Norwegian isn’t toxic and does nothing wrong

::think::

What a hatchet if I’ve ever seen, if Status told you Norwegian isn’t being toxic here. It’s so just Norwegian/Status.

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idk man, nothing's really changed for me since I last put everything out.

My reasons are solid, when I start casing again Norwegian just goes "all you do is repeat stuff"

okay, but hypothetically, if I saw someone robbing a liquor store, me continuing to say i saw this man rob a liquor store, i know because I recognize the shoes he was wearing because I saw them at a local nordstrom, and thought, hey, i like those shoes, but if that's what I got, people going "what else ya got" well, i saw him do it.

you're just repeating the same thing.

still saw him do it.

idk, kinda demotivates me completely.

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bruh, it's VCA, the pushes you've been on, the way you've been discrediting and misrepping, it's POE.

It's your actions in this game.

It's not one thing, it's a mixture of things, plus reading your aura compared to everyone man, bad juju

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so don't act like it's nothing.

I town read every slot in this game too besides Status to an extent Ramcius.

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based on everything i said in that exact post...?

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well, no, because Gamma and Taylor were also pushing me, and ABR was defending me, and then switched onto me, so I specifically knew that one of those reads were wrong and that ABR was scum town defending me pocketing me.

This is not even close to being similar

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In my mind?

I was literally correct there

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i feel like i can't be any more clear with why, if you can't see it, dont know what else to do at this point.

Honestly, Nancy, this happened all throughout FL vs Hectic where you couldnt comprehend like any of my scum cases and defended all of my pushes, but i just was right that game too.

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Your team is wrong, Nancy, and FADE FUCKING NORWEGIAN TOMORROW FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

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Wait, so we’re going Norwegian?!?

Yay

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I really think Pine Norwegian should be settled today

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Like, PR's be damned, who do y'all want faded?

Take out all setup spec. Take out all mechanical.

Who do you guys want faded today?

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taking a day off really helped i think

yeah, one of Norwegian/Pine today, guys

im just ready to move on

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i am less sure on Pine town as i was, i see the potential pocket, but i still wanna trust my read

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i havent read today at all

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ive been saying the team was most likely status/norwegian for a long time? before you were

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ramcius, i dont like your sudden flip right when norwegian had a sudden flip.

that's scummy energy somewhere. natural repositioning of gamestate.

Norwegian-Ramcius was my backup team, that's why I don't like the Status idea, because then Pine-Norwegian just takes centerfold tomorrow, which is just like, come on

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I don’t understand why it’s not the same thing from going Norwegian, and jailing Status, I guess?

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When did I 180 on Ramcius? I feel I’ve been the same spot for a while with them?

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You know, the more I think, the more things I can see that condemn FL:

1. Zor hammer after I said that zor was a bad flip - FL just wanted to get it done before someone unvoted and started discussion with me why zor is bad flip
2. I think some sr on me stems from idea that I knew Molla was JOAT, but it was FL who pointed out that Molla softed PR D1 at the start of D2 which helped me to make connection.Also, FL saying 3 JOAT D1 indicated that he anticipated another JOAT
3. FL claimed DEB knows how to read him, yet he didn't tried to force read out of DEB for 2 full day phases, even when he was in a heat of discussion with Norwee

Lastly, Pine is lock town for me, not just mechanically, but because his hard TR on me, he can't turn on me after miselim, he can't flip on FL either, so where he gets another miselim after TSQ/Norwee green flip? And I'm willing to accept fact that I may be wrong on Norwee, I might be just too biased towards him and it might cloud my judgement

1 is wrong, if I was scum, i could have just let DEB hammer like everyone expected him to.

2, yeah, Zoraster claimed JOAT, and BBmolla and I were dead on mindmelding Day 1 because we were coming from the exact same position.

3, i don’t push DEB to play like you guys, i also actively went after DEB for not town reading me at a specific point in the game.

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Yeah, you guys have bad reading comprehension if you think i have any sort of change in my reads essentially all day phase

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I don’t understand the concept of going Status instead of Norwegian

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Mech talk sucks

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Just fade Norwegian or Pine and end this day

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If Status is town, Pine is always faded tomorrow, which lets Norwegian/Ram team win.

There’s literally a solution and a risk involved in every single way here.

Just fade the 1v1 and tomorrow gets opened up hella

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I just need one of them flipped. If I’m wrong with Pine, then find, Norwegian’s town, if I’m right with Norwegian, awesome fade Norwegian.

All the mech talk is really just not important because at the end of the day, scum’s just gonna WIFOM it up.

Id rather just play on play than rely on possible town mechanics

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I don’t understand the Shea over Norwegian thing either, and nobody’s explained why we’re just going for the compromise?

I’m anti compromise wagons. Ramcius also did a weird 180 the second Norwegian 180’d too, which i didn’t like

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In a possible world, where Status is town, Pine-Norwegian is still the 1v1. I’d think it’s Norwegian/Ramcius in that case, and they’ve been scum theatreing.

In a townPine JK world, as scum, I would probably always no kill if that has anything to do with the mech talk.

I feel people fail to look at the WIFOM/sociological side of things, which I feel is a bigger part of mafia than the technical and mech “logistical thinking” side of things.

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The whole mech talk is something I use as scum to try to get people to fight me

It’s like playing a slippery tank, if you focus, the carry gonna kill you

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From the current positions of what I see after reading up (skimmed), I feel like Pine/Norwegian fade opens up the game, Ramcius/Status is the fade scum want to keep the game WIFOM’able

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Yeah, the break away (I’m still semi away) was good because when I checked for a little bit yesterday (I’m here but I’m not here, if that makes sense, site wide) made me scum read Norwegian slightly less.

I am in the position where I can tell one of Norwegian-Pine is scum with one of Ramcius-Status.

I’m still leaning Norwegian/Status, but Ramcius made me really nervous with his flip.

I still think that going in the Pine/Norwegian 1v1 is best because it gets rid of JK WIFOM either way

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Who is Norwee’s partner here, if not Shea?

Ramcius

if you're pocketing me, then you/ramcius

Nancy town reading Ramcius so much is making me paranoid because she town reads scum a lot

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Who is Norwee’s partner here, if not Shea?

Ramcius

if you're pocketing me, then you/ramcius

Nancy town reading Ramcius so much is making me paranoid because she town reads scum a lot

Ramcius can’t be Norwee’s partner.

Ramcius!scum does not defend the Jailkeeper against his partner. Ramcius/Shea is not a thing.

Keep going, please.

why wouldn't they?

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seems like a pretty basic scum play

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Just fade Norwegian so i can prove i am right like always

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if you think it's norwegian/fl, great, let's bus norwegian

im so done with this basic level mech talk

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i havent been reading any mech talk

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i dont understand anti Ramcius-Norwegian?

for me it's either

Ramcius-Norwegian
Status-Norwegian
Pine-Ramcius

so it feels to me like status push is indicative of Ramcius scum

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Ramcius 180 on me was absolute garbage too right around the time Norwegian flipped, and while that may not be teamed, if Ramcius/Norwegian is cut out, then I think it's Pine-Ramcius specifically because of the status push.

I could be overthinking and it is in fact Norwegian/Status, but if we're talking straight mech, then yeah, it does not make sense why Status is pushed before any of the others, which is what's pinging me there.

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Just fade Norwegian so i can prove i am right like always

If Ram is town, I’m so lording that back on you.

i care less about your correct town reads than your correct scum reads.

I know you can land on correct town sometimes already

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i just dont care about PR's like that, so i dont really grasp the entire thing

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norwegian does not want to be faded, if they're scum that's just trying to make you double think

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also, I dont agree that scum have to have a goon?

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where are you getting that from?

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the thing is, if Norwegian/Status is the scum team, and you town read Ramcius and myself, Pine, why does going Status over Norwegian matter at all here?

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I feel like Ramcius and Pine kinda just left me in the dust when the fade wasn't happening, and im gaining increased paranoia there now

if status flips town, Pine/Ramcius can fake guilty, Norwegian/Ramcius get to have Norwegian vs Pine tomorrow with a little FL/Ram on the side

so when people are saying status is the optimal fade, i just dont agree with that at all.

they could be scum, but a status town flip is essentially a worst case scenario all around.

Status' only partner here can be Norwegian, but Norwegian has Ramcius as well, so i dont understand the logic

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i dont understand anti Ramcius-Norwegian?

for me it's either

Ramcius-Norwegian
Status-Norwegian
Pine-Ramcius

so it feels to me like status push is indicative of Ramcius scum

It’s not Ram/Norwee for the same reason it isn’t Ram/Shea. In addition to independently Townie things he’s down, Ram doesn’t pass up the easy Pine/Norwee dichotomy to hard defend me and push Shea. He takes the W.

You getting faded as town is not a victory for scum. It was earlier in the day, but like, now it just outs Norwegian as scum if you flip town.

Ramcius did the same thing with Norwegian on Day 2 when he was pushing, but then he made a momentum changing vote on TGP.

Now he flipped on me, and pushing for a compromise wagon.

Yeah, I don't agree with the anti Norwegian-Ramcius at all, if anything that makes me scum read them more

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If you wanna talk about Status being scum and that being the reason to fade them, sure, that's a much better argument than "Status is the best mechanical fade" because I hard hard hard disagree with that

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so when people are saying status is the optimal fade, i just dont agree with that at all.

Precisely. TSQ is not the optimal lim because it only disproves or proves a single team, that is me/TSQ. Me or Pine flipping would prove a lot more about what is going on. And that is precisely why Pine didn't want the flip on me over TSQ, because he is not wanting town to solve the game.

This is it exactly

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Now whether Norwegian knows that because he is scum is the true question.

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I feel like Ramcius and Pine kinda just left me in the dust when the fade wasn't happening, and im gaining increased paranoia there now

if status flips town, Pine/Ramcius can fake guilty, Norwegian/Ramcius get to have Norwegian vs Pine tomorrow with a little FL/Ram on the side

so when people are saying status is the optimal fade, i just dont agree with that at all.

they could be scum, but a status town flip is essentially a worst case scenario all around.

Status' only partner here can be Norwegian, but Norwegian has Ramcius as well, so i dont understand the logic

That is true. While I think Ram is town, I don’t understand the case on Shea? @Pine

i need you to know, that just because you think Ram is town doesn't mean he can't be scum here.

I think you could be right, for what it's worth, but his play the second half of day 2 and day 3 has been scummy. His play at the beginning of those days have been townie.

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i dont want any JK WIFOM in this game tomorrow, Ramcius/Status fades allow for hard JK WIFOM possibility, and that is why I can absolutely not see reasoning for either of them being the optimal fade here

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I do see it, though, Pine and Ramcius if scum have set me up completely to be faded tomorrow if they are scum

Like I am most likely on the chopping block tomorrow no matter what

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I disagree that he is an IC on a status town flip.

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I do see it, though, Pine and Ramcius if scum have set me up completely to be faded tomorrow if they are scum

Like I am most likely on the chopping block tomorrow no matter what

Uh, no. Not no matter what.

Especially not from your perspective.

Why are you pushing Pine/Ramcius when you still swear it’s Norwegian?

I said

Norwegian/Status
Pine/Ramcius
Norwegian/Ramcius

what part of this is me swearing it's Norwegian?

I feel I've given multiple comments about why I think Pine/Ramcius is more possible, why are you ignoring that?

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And as soon as I start getting paranoid and not town reading Pine as hard, you're coming after me

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Your vote is on Norwee and you have repeatedly demanded people vote him and prove you right

yes, and I still think Norwegian is the best fade. Where have I said differently?

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A Norwegian town flip means Pine is always flipped tomorrow, so Ramcius partner could have tried to get the vanilla that I was seeing as his 1v1 faded. This game has always been 1 of Pine/Norwegian with 1 of Ramcius/Status, and Pine/Status is the only pairing I don't think possible of those

Pine/Ramcius
Norwegian/Ramcius
Norwegian/Status

exactly what i've been saying

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Status is the least optimal of the 4 on the worst case scenario list, all 3 other fades, if we end up fading town, get the game pretty much on auto win.

Status is the only one with the potential misfade to not have the game be auto win for town

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Then he should be fine with a Shea elim. A Shea elim solves the game, and also would support his theory.

His hard resistance to this is wildly suspicious, as is his days-long silence until things start to go against the you/me dichotomy.

Norwee, Jingle and I are becoming increasingly worried that it’s been Shea/FL all along, subtly pushing the you/me dichotomy. They win either way there.

Why would I defend Status so hard here as their scum partner, that would just tie me to them if they flipped today and flipped scum. I don't see this as something Jingle would say here. I also don't believe Jingle would think status is the optimal fade here. Like it's just not.

He would see why from my POV, as town, I'm not okay with that

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Norwee, Jingle and I are becoming increasingly worried that it’s been Shea/FL all along, subtly pushing the you/me dichotomy. They win either way there.

What makes you think they are a team?

Because I'm defending him

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I was pushing Norwegian and Status like all of Day 2.

I specifically called out Status pushing Akarin as a way of moving the game away from Norwegian/FL 1v1 to save Norwegian.

That is actively a lie

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you don’t defend your partners, you busy yourself elsewhere and prosecute an alternative.

And there it is, I guess.

I'm hard anti-bus, and Jingle would have known that had he been really giving you stuff, and I actively do defend my partners as scum.

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Go on and check my other scum games and see how much absence of connection I have with teammates.

I am a scum theatre god

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He cleared Shea/me but didn’t clear Ram/Norwee, despite the reasoning being exactly the same.

Nah, you're saying The Force Awakens is A New Hope here

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you're just trying to get any fade that isn't you at this point

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you don’t defend your partners, you busy yourself elsewhere and prosecute an alternative.

And there it is, I guess.

I'm hard anti-bus, and Jingle would have known that had he been really giving you stuff, and I actively do defend my partners as scum.

Oh nonsense. I’m hard anti-bus too, and we both know the best way to defend a partner is to distract from them

That's LITERALLY what I just said

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Funny what apparently me "town telling" over and over does when i'm not town reading you as hard as before

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@Jingle - I am not scum here, and I never would have let this day phase get to this position as scum.

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I have had zero control, zero anything this game, and if DEB and I were both scum together, there WOULD have been gambits. Like that's a straight up fact, DEB would have done more working towards my agenda than he had this game because he would have just done anything I told him to.

I haven't pushed a single townie to misfade (i hammered one, but DEB woulda done it when he got here anyways, so you can count it, but like...yeah)

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@Jingle - I am not scum here, and I never would have let this day phase get to this position as scum.

It was Jingle’s idea

Oo, JingleScum powerful.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Oh my god.

Detective Penguin, Bingle hard hard pocketed me even when people were pushing me. He was scum there. I defended him the majority of the game until my misfade on Day 4, I believe?

It's literally the exact same thing happening

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Bingle constantly would say things like FL is town, and reassuring me that he knew I was town.

Pine is doing the exact same thing to me this game that Bingle did to me there

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Pine came in here complimenting me, saying things like "town needs flavor later in the game" yadda yadda stuff, which is just appealing to my ego, exactly what Jingle KNOWS I would respond well too because that's what he did when he was scum against me.

I wasn't even thinking about their partners giving them tips for me, I thought it was just Pine knowing me, but no, it was JINGLE knowing how to WORK town me.

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this, alongside JK'ing me when I was softing PR, and me expecting scum to have a JK right before he claimed it I think is enough for me to see Pine/Ram scum team

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or im just flip flopping, im gonna give myself a second to step back before i get tunneled.

id really hate to lose to Norwegian Scum this game

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A Norwegian town flip means Pine is always flipped tomorrow, so Ramcius partner could have tried to get the vanilla that I was seeing as his 1v1 faded. This game has always been 1 of Pine/Norwegian with 1 of Ramcius/Status, and Pine/Status is the only pairing I don't think possible of those

Pine/Ramcius
Norwegian/Ramcius
Norwegian/Status

exactly what i've been saying

And there it is - Norwee Townflip leads to me tomorrow, boom, Shea/FL win. They just have to survive today.

there would be no reason to go Norwegian over you today here if I were scum, if you were to get a block as a town JK where I was scum, this game would need an extra misfade.

this just implies you know a kill will go through

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i kinda think staying with the even numbers is beneficial in the case Pine is town, though

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If it’s about me being scum, i don’t really wanna hear it tbh

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NOTE, I could hammer right now but I’m actively waiting for Pine to make his case on me

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still haven't posted it? i thought you worked on it last night

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@Pine - If I wasn't town reading you the majority of this game, i'd have hammered by now, so this better be good.

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Jingle insisting that molla kill wasn’t obvious continues to bug me.

Really as soon as it hit me that Jingle was Pine's partner, everything kinda flipped. Bingle did essentially the exact same thing to me as scum in Detective Penguin, appealing to my ego, town reading me when nobody else was, and i defended him throughout the game before my Day 4 misfade.

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Jingle insisting that molla kill wasn’t obvious continues to bug me.

Really as soon as it hit me that Jingle was Pine's partner, everything kinda flipped. Bingle did essentially the exact same thing to me as scum in Detective Penguin, appealing to my ego, town reading me when nobody else was, and i defended him throughout the game before my Day 4 misfade.

If Shea flips green here, I don’t think Norwee is getting pushed. It just seems to me that the only reason he’s being pushed here is as Norwee’s supposedly PR buddy and I don’t think they even make sense as a team here.

I think they make a lot of sense as a team, it's the going Status over Norwegian thing that doesn't make sense to me from their POV.

Status and Norwegian haven't pushed each other really at all.

Status pushes are on a directly different plane than Norwegian the entire game, so it makes sense to me that you missed it. You're really good at seeing what's going on right in front of you, and I'm the opposite of that, I look for what's going on behind the scenes. Norwegian/Status to me look like they've been powerhousing the game from multiple directions, and the thing that pinged me the most was Status going after Akarin when Norwegian and I were 1v1ing. It felt like he was trying to ease pressure off of Norwegian.

Norwegian/Ramcius team makes sense because of Ramcius pushing Norwegian the beginning of Day 2 and Day 3, but both days ended up pushing elsewhere, TGP and Status. Ramcius, if scum with Norwegian, they did a lot of scum theatre, but I never was able to remember anything about Norwegian vs Ramcius, and Norwegian was under a lot of pressure with Ramcius, and if the team is Ramcius/Norwegian, then Pine/Status is Town/Town, which means scum is on both sides of that, safe from a Norwegian fade.

Norwegian's cased Pine/Ramcius, and their sudden flip on me seemed like they were ready to turn on me if I ever flipped, and I really dislike Ramcius' immediate flip right after Norwegian flipped. It was gamestate positioning somehow, and i can see it coming from a town Ram, though, but that's in the Norwegian/Status world.

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Alternatively, I tinfoil Mistyx here and there, but I think I've come around to if they are scum, they can win this game because I've never seen them do something like a vengeful claim as scum, and I generally think they are town.

I might more hope that Mistyx is scum pulling a fast one on the entire game than actually tinfoil

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here's my thing right now, Pine is going to make a case on one of 2 things.

FL-Status
or
Norwegian-Status

I'm hanging on for hopes that it's the latter, but I feel in my bones that it's the former.

If Pine is scum, then it's a distraction to help prevent and give him time to possible get out of being faded either way.

If Pine is town, the first pairing is a distraction that's just gonna give scum momentum tomorrow, and the second one is the reason I've been waiting.

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im also a little annoyed that he said they worked on a case last night and instead of posting it, posted the one saying they would post it

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without even saying who the case is on

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Norwegian-Ramcius makes sense to have pressure switched off, and Pine could be in flail mode as town.

Ramcius leaving Norwegian for Status relieved him of a lot of pressure.

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without even saying who the case is on

Yeah, well we have less than two days now and Pine’s at E - 1.

yeah, the e-1 is hurting my soul

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I have a large case Jingle and I worked on last night to post. Let me do that first.

like why wouldn't you just post it with this post?

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and he roleblocked me when i softed PR

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why did Pine switch their position on me, though?

ScumPine should have just tried to ease my read on them, and then I'd likely have town read them again from the work they did earlier.

I can't help but be paranoid about Jingle specifically telling Pine how to play as scum against me

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I don't wanna hear Pine's case if it's against me tbh

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If Pine flips scum, great, Ramcius is scum.

If Pine flips town, we're fucked because it would be Norwegian/Status or Norwegian/Ramcius, and honestly, I think I'm probably the fade tomorrow in this scenario.

The only scenario I will be not upset losing to is if Mistyx is scum, because they already win if that's the case, but that's just me not wanting to deal with the aftermath of this game.

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and he roleblocked me when i softed PR

Wasn’t that an unverified claim since you have commuter?

It's unverified, but it's the general act of it, if that makes sense

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like i was softing PR day 1, and I made it incredibly clear that I thought multiple JOATS day 1 were possible.

BBmolla died as JOAT, and Pine said they targeted me.

I think that makes sense. Molla and I were mindmelding a good amount, and I was the one that was being pocketed by Pine.

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If Pine flips scum, great, Ramcius is scum.

If Pine flips town, we're fucked because it would be Norwegian/Status or Norwegian/Ramcius, and honestly, I think I'm probably the fade tomorrow in this scenario.

The only scenario I will be not upset losing to is if Mistyx is scum, because they already win if that's the case, but that's just me not wanting to deal with the aftermath of this game.

I’m pretty much willing to bet the game on Misty being town here.

Oh, I am too, that's why I think it's okay if Mistyx is scum here, they earned their victory with their vengeful gambit (i dont think they're gambiting, though, i think they're like 99.9999% town, but that .0001% I would mark out for post game)

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I don't wanna hear Pine's case if it's against me tbh

I don't know why you're asking what Pine's case is, either Pine is stalling for more time and it's not even made yet. Or they are working on it right now and trying to make it exactly what you and Nancy want to hear because they don't wanna aggravate you into voting scum!Pine.

well, I do wanna hear Pine's case if he's town, is the thing, just not if im in it because scum will just use it to their advantage

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VOTE: Pine

Move on.

Decided I don't want to hear it

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he had almost 3 hours to post a case he had already made, it's nothing but WIFOM

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Um, why no one talking? Anyway, anyone still doubt it's FL and TSQ? FL flipped on me and Pine, TSQ came up with me + Norwee team, it's obvious that they want to get either of us miselim'ed in ELO now

You flipped on me, don’t try and act like it was the other way around.

Norwegian/Status
Norwegian/Ramcius

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Yeah, it’s always Norwegian here

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I think I’m leaning Norwegian/Status over Norwegian/Ramcius, though.

Ramcius looks more setup right now than Status.

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Really the scummiest thing Ramcius has done was turn on me, and switch pressure at the end of the last 2 days.

Also, him bringing up the Zoraster thing now for the first time is kinda off

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Nancy, Norwegian, Ramcius the only 3 unflipped on the TGP wagon

If we think it’s only 1 on that wagon, it’s Norwegian, with status scum.

If we think 2, then Norwegian/Ramcius.

Mistyx died over Nancy likely because of the PR, or i guess Nancy had wrong reads scum wanted to abuse.

Nancy was saying Norwegian/FL scum team, so that’s kinda 50/50.

Norwegian probably is able to win that 50-50 too here

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By the end of it, I was like 70% sure Pine was gonna flip scum.

But this means we get to trust Dannfloor’s case from earlier as 100% coming from town

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Nancy, Norwegian, Ramcius the only 3 unflipped on the TGP wagon

If we think it’s only 1 on that wagon, it’s Norwegian, with status scum.

If we think 2, then Norwegian/Ramcius.

Mistyx died over Nancy likely because of the PR, or i guess Nancy had wrong reads scum wanted to abuse.

Nancy was saying Norwegian/FL scum team, so that’s kinda 50/50.

Norwegian probably is able to win that 50-50 too here

Norwee made it abundantly clear that Misty would be the NK. You were leashed to Akarin and obviously scum feared her venge, so she was obviously seen as a bigger threat for that reason.

Yeah, I’m not questioning it, however I don’t care at all if Norwegian made it abundantly clear, because I do think it was also the obvious kill.

I almost went to doctor then tbh

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Yeah, i just hated that turn on me by Ramcius and Pine.

Pine was still the 2nd best fade yesterday, though, and I can rest a little easier now.

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Norwegian, you spent the entire half end of this day weening and goading me to voting Pine

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Yesterday*

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But like I said, no matter what Pine flipped, people were going to push it towards me

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Ramcius and I are the dedicated misfades for this day phase.

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hmm, maybe it is just ramcius/norwegian

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bringing nancy in the poe right now doesnt seem smart if he was scum

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hmm, maybe it is just ramcius/norwegian

Ram was trying the hardest to save Pine.

And Norwegian, who is confirmed scum from my eyes, was trying the hardest to fade pine

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yeah, it could be status/norwegian

im going back and forth a lot tbh

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i feel like ramcius and i are on reverse sides of the gamestate but equadistant from scum. from a town pov ramcius should see scumstatus the same way i see scumNorwegian

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I'm good going Status, I think.

VOTE: Status

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ive had reasoning. I stated on Day 2 you were actively deflecting pressure off of Norwegian.

I also stated i think you were pushing Akarin for being a PR threat

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@Nancy - Norwegian had everything to gain from Pine push. he was a JK.

And I know for a fact now that Norwegian is scum, so

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unless you’re his buddy

oh, you did say that

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yeah, it's just Status and Norwegian here Nancy

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I think its ramcius and norwee personally and you clearing ramcius doesn't make much sense to me.

he's trying to tie me to him with this type of post right now

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From his POV, as town, take out actual reads and go straight on mech, he's correct, and he knows it, but with play, Nancy's just not scum here, but he's pushing the "technically" card, if that makes sense, because it does give a potential opening, but he really can't say or do anything because there isn't that much analysis for him to twist there that won't make it even more obvious that him and Norwegian are scum

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doesnt akarin just always die on a no elim?

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you're trying to get a full months worth of time basically? honestly, im tryna finish the game within the next few days

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like fade within the next 2 days, night phase, then go like a day on the next day

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im down to no elim for the chance that Akarin is an even night vigilante instead of 1 shot so we get one more shot in, preferably on Norwegian, but Status is more than likely the fade anyways, so probably shoot Status

more likely i get shot, and we just insta lose, but ill roll the dice

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im down to no elim for the chance that Akarin is an even night vigilante instead of 1 shot so we get one more shot in, preferably on Norwegian, but Status is more than likely the fade anyways, so probably shoot Status

more likely i get shot, and we just insta lose, but ill roll the dice

But we haven’t had any even or odd roles in this setup but I suppose it’s possible?

im just hoping, you dont need to take everything i say so literal, i exaggerate and talk about hypotheticals for fun a lot

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if status is scum, ramcius is conf town

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im down to no elim for the chance that Akarin is an even night vigilante instead of 1 shot so we get one more shot in, preferably on Norwegian, but Status is more than likely the fade anyways, so probably shoot Status

more likely i get shot, and we just insta lose, but ill roll the dice

But we haven’t had any even or odd roles in this setup but I suppose it’s possible?

im just hoping, you dont need to take everything i say so literal, i exaggerate and talk about hypotheticals for fun a lot

Well, that was pretty much what Norwee/Shea were saying about Pine’s role, that it was fake and didn’t fit in with the setup.

that's why i say people shouldn't listen to setup spec, too easy for scum to manipulate it and swing it their way

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Lol, Akarin sees that I’m town, why would ScumMe ever kill her?

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Also, why would scum crumb who they’re killing

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Oh, i guess it’s confirmed that strongman shot happened on Ico then.

Interesting that hasn’t come up.

Ico was the one who kept starting the DEB wagons, though, so I guess that makes sense. Norwegian was bussing everytime Ico pushed DEB, which scum will always bus DEB as their partner, at least softly

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Oh and i will not argue with FL today. I do not care for a single word he says. We can argue tommorow when it actually matters. My stance remains the same and i will attempt to convince Nancy to the truth tommorow.

If Norwegian was town, this post isn't said ever

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Lol, Akarin sees that I’m town, why would ScumMe ever kill her?

Would you kill Nancy over Akarin, if you're scum? Or me?

you know, i could see it going any of you guys depending on the play I'd want to make in the next day phase, so i would probably think it over, and go over all options, and go from there, if that makes sense

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Norwegian still doing the most to set me up all game

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Still sorry,

Still keep not having any time and then not sleeping

Still think things will look up any day now.

I wonder how confident FL would be that I'd flip on him today given the previous day.

On the other hand, I've hardly been a big force for anything in this game (sorry).

But still, not like the vengeful thing is that useful that it had to die. We were treating Misty (rightfully) as basically conftown, so it means that scum wanted Misty dead more than me.

I was doccing you last night....

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I will not be arguing with Norwegian tomorrow.

I have cased him all game. The reasons why he is scum are there.

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He’s just positioning the game after Status flips scum

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so it means that scum wanted Misty dead more than me.

the doc comment was in response to this part

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Also, Norwegian is stating they wont argue with me today, but every single one of their posts is talking about me which is effectively arguing with me, the difference is this is the first time he's talked about me and not at me

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And Status is posting as little as possible to help the narrative that I'm partnered with them without ruining any ties in the gamestate

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status and norwegian cannot talk at the same time this game because it becomes blatantly obvious they are the scum team. they keep switching in and out with who was posting, and that's scum indicative

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213-215 is all status, then 216-217 is norwegian, i bet if we look back further in the game, the same will apply

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If Ramcius is scum and did what he did yesterday and distanced from TSQ or FL, i would be seriously impressed. It is by PoE and mech reasons FL is confirmed scum from my POV, and their only possible partner is TSQ. That’s why i’m sure of TSQ. And if we consider possible partners to me in a scum!Norwee world then FL states it can only be FL as well. So that means we both agree it’s TSQ. Conclusion: FL goves us the TSQ flip for free because he thinks it will allow him to endgame tommorow. Hence the best play forward is to simply eliminate TSQ and then we can argue tommorow.

this is actually just bad play in general, because it's the same thing arguing about it today as tomorrow, especially if you already see TSQ as scum, like it's actively shutting down discussion

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It is by PoE and mech reasons FL is confirmed scum from my POV, and their only possible partner is TSQ. That’s why i’m sure of TSQ./quote]

FL flip would be fine too but i don’t care enough to case him until at least it’s shown TSQ is scum. If it’s a Ram/FL team then whatever, they can win.

@Nancy

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like there's actively no reason not to take the time today unless he's trying to make it so they can change the gamestate with a kill before talking it over

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Still sorry,

Still keep not having any time and then not sleeping

Still think things will look up any day now.

I wonder how confident FL would be that I'd flip on him today given the previous day.

On the other hand, I've hardly been a big force for anything in this game (sorry).

But still, not like the vengeful thing is that useful that it had to die. We were treating Misty (rightfully) as basically conftown, so it means that scum wanted Misty dead more than me.

I was doccing you last night....

Yes scum still considered her a bigger threat than me.

we werent talking about you, she said Mistyx.

i dont understand this post, i dont think that was being considered there because you werent town for your role like they were

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You act like there isn’t a case out there against me, I’m aware i look scummy.

It just doesn’t matter. It’s just not correct. I very much believe you to come up with an extremely compelling case that will look nicer than mine because I’m just going to do the same things I’ve been pushing because they are scum indicative.

You’re just using the night to put everything together

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Hammer it, Nancy.

Let’s fast night please

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If you’re pushing that I’m scum JOAT, again, I’ve claimed my real role as scum like once, and Nancy knows this

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Maybe more than once, but only once in the past few years that I can remember

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What are you talking about reconsidering your slot?

I reconsidered your slot at one point during day 3 and the end of day 4

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Wait, not day 4, i thought we were day 6, move all that back one.

I actively was with you at one point, so that’s a straight up lie

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You spent the entire day 3 trying to get me to fade Pine

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Norwegian pushed Zoraster, they hammered TGP even after saying they were sure they were town (i did this to Pine)

And you and Status were running the same agenda for days

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Night 4 Elimination

You wake up to find one member of your group missing.

Spoiler: Ramcius

Welcome, Ramcius! You are San-chan, a member of the

Anime Empire

.

Your Abilities

• Voice of the Empire
  : During the day phase, you may use your voice as a member of the Anime Empire to vote to eliminate one player.

Your Win Condition

• Destroy Untrod Tripod
  : You win when all threats to the Anime Empire have been eliminated and there is at least one Anime Empire member alive.

Please confirm by responding to this PM stating your alignment and character name.

The game thread can be found here.

Good luck, have fun, and destroy Untrod Tripod.

That’s really interesting. Hmmmm . . .

Why does scum kill Ram > confitown?

Ramcius became conf town with status flip, for what it’s worth

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What do you need from me, Nancy? I feel like it should be obvious Norwegian is scum based on everything this game, but I’m also biased. I’m cool just letting him continue talking and out himself.

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Essentially everyone of Norwegian’s exhibits are misreps/plain incorrect, like the me not reconsidering ever when I specifically did at least twice.

Norwegian sheeped Ico on DEB every single time DEB got pushed by Ico, then left as soon as they could.

Ico then died that night, after they said they thought I was town.

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You can also see Norwegian’s complete flip on me when going at me in a 1v1 wasnt working, he started actively calling me town, which is how you work me as scum, until it was convenient again for him to flip.

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I also knew both Pine and Akarin were PR’s, and Ico VT died that night.

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I called Status out when I spoke to Akarin for reasons why I thought Status was pushing them.

And I actively defended Akarin from being pushed by Status.

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I also defended Pine for multiple days.

So I have been actively protecting the town PR the majority of this game.

Norwegian pushed Zoraster, hammered TGP after “being sure” TGP was town, pushed Pine relentlessly.

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I should have known something was up when Jjh “town” read me. It was just a way to manipulate me, a defense shell

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What do you need from me, Nancy? I feel like it should be obvious Norwegian is scum based on everything this game, but I’m also biased. I’m cool just letting him continue talking and out himself.

You could claim your true role since you’re now saying JOAT wasn’t it, right? There’s no reason not out it now.

Nah, it’s real, i was talking about as scum, you know i never claim what my role is, i always fake claim it

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TSQ hasn’t even been trying to distance from me, because he felt very comfortable keeping up the image that we are both scum. Which is what FL has been banking on and why he resisted that TSQ flip on D3 so strongly because a Pine JK on me would confirm me town in the town!Pine world which FL understood was real because he is informed.

lol

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you were telling me to go on Pine constantly

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you actively created the gamestate that caused Pine/Ramcius/Myself to implode, and i needed you or pine faded so that i would know exactly if you are scum or not, you pushed Pine because he was JK.

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Also Status and Norwegian voted Status on the same page after Norwegian went "I am not doing anything this day phase, saving it for tomorrow"

yes, i was pushing for nancy to hammer and end the day, but the day ended when scum wanted it to with Norwegian/Status.

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Also Status and Norwegian voted Status on the same page after Norwegian went "I am not doing anything this day phase, saving it for tomorrow"

yes, i was pushing for nancy to hammer and end the day, but the day ended when scum wanted it to with Norwegian/Status.

Right, I thought that hammer looked really sus. Like why would scum!you call for me to hammer if you were going to have Shea do it like 20 minutes later?

day 1 i didn't have to hammer zoraster either, because deb scum would have done it if i was his partner.

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TSQ hasn’t even been trying to distance from me, because he felt very comfortable keeping up the image that we are both scum. Which is what FL has been banking on and why he resisted that TSQ flip on D3 so strongly because a Pine JK on me would confirm me town in the town!Pine world which FL understood was real because he is informed.

So why did you try so hard to kill him and save Shea?

Pine wasn’t going to jk FL, he would have jk’d Ram before FL, so you needed him dead more than FL.

there was zero chance for me to be jailed because I was doccing Akarin, so if Pine had jailed me, he'd have ended up seeming like he was lying, which would have been fine if I was scum.

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what does shirou have anything to do with kn owing you in this game? that's your teammate

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I actually thought you were one of the most active people day 1?

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Pine had plenty of reasons to town read me, especially with Jingle as his partner.

You pushed the no reason to town read me literally all game when it's been inherently untrue

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2. Pine started to consider a FL/Shea team. FL then changes his mind on Pine and hammers him before he can say more.

this is moot, because the only cases to be made that werent was FL/Status, which I knew was what scum needed to push, so no matter what Pine was, it wasn't going to be good for town.

I even gave mulitple hours waiting for the case. Pine town flip just confirmed you as scum to me anyways, so either way it was fine

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3. Ramcius believed it was FL/Shea team. Scum then nightkills him over conftown Akarin.

You specifically stated I would kill Akarin, and Ramcius was also conf town. Ramcius is also the person you'd be least likely to convince and you were looking super scummy at the end of the day, and you know it

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co believed partially our FL case, you can go check Ico's ISO by yourself. And scum strongmanned Ico that night.

Ico was pushing me and calling me town at the same time. Ico was keeping everything open.

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Do you really think this is some 200 IQ play from me rather than just the easier answer that FL is scum?

what is 200 iq about this...? I don't even think you've played an amazing scum game, you've played solid, and you're going ham right now, but you made a lot of mistakes throughout the game, I feel.